EPTOn July 04 2010 07:07 baller wrote:
flash played shockingly bad at times
flash played shockingly bad at times
I assume you didn't actually watch the games. Let's reserve that adverb for Killer.
Power Rank 07/02/2010 - Page 21
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okum
France5779 Posts
I assume you didn't actually watch the games. Let's reserve that adverb for Killer. | ||
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Ideas
United States8173 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On July 04 2010 07 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 04 2010 07 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:54 okum wrote: I assume you didn't actually watch the games. Let's reserve that adverb for Killer. it doesn't shock if killer plays really poorly, it does if flash does, so I think that's correct~ | ||
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Sadistx
Zimbabwe5568 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/v30HX.png) | ||
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De4ngus
United States6533 Posts
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lespostea
United States256 Posts
On July 04 2010 09:31 Sadistx wrote: I think it's pretty amazing that more than 2 years later, the same 2 players consistently appear in top 2 spots of the power rank. They both really are the last 2 bonjwas of their respective races. + Show Spoiler + Yeah, this. Definitely. JD and Flash have both been playing at this level, for a long time. I have some theories about the b-word that suggest it has become harder to get this prize of B-word-ness due to the nature of the game changing. But I don't really know enough about the scene from early '00s. | ||
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jalstar
United States8198 Posts
On July 04 2010 09:39 De4ngus wrote: D: there needs to be a protoss bonjwa. Bisu was so close and Flash couldn't figure out how to beat him (or get far in starleagues lol) but then Jaedong was like lol no fuck you. "Punched him in the dick and stole his lunch money." Flash has a winning record against Bisu... | ||
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De4ngus
United States6533 Posts
Do you realize what time period I'm talking about... | ||
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jalstar
United States8198 Posts
On July 04 2010 10:28 De4ngus wrote: Do you realize what time period I'm talking about... Flash has never had a losing record against Bisu. Ever. In his whole career. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On July 04 2010 10 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 04 2010 10 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:36 jalstar wrote: Flash has never had a losing record against Bisu. Ever. In his whole career. Yep, and Flash figured out the way to beat bisu: build some barracks and some marines in the middle of the map and attack | ||
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5unrise
New Zealand646 Posts
On July 04 2010 04:27 Mortality wrote: Every time a new Power Rank comes out, the people who flock to respond are the people who have a bone to pick. A bit too theoretical don't you think man? You can't really brush aside facts like that... | ||
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MisteR
Netherlands595 Posts
To really understand who the strongest player is, you need to know how winning works. How you prepare for a match. How you play the mindgames. Which games are important, which aren't. Judging from the explanations he gave with the power rank, he has no such understanding. This is the underlying reason why I think he is not capable of writing a good power rank, and the only way I can explain this terrible one he presented recently. For the sake of argument, I'll give you my personal list. 1 Jaedong 2 Fantasy 3 Free 4 Flash 5 Effort 6 Sea 7 Leta 8 Stats 9 Great 10 Hiya I firmly believe that the numbers one two three and even five and six on this list would've beaten Flash in the state he was last month. Jaedong, Fantasy and Free played dominant starcraft and presented near perfect records, and should be rewarded for that. Flash and Effort both showed really good play but lost a lot as well. Sea, Leta, Stats, Great and Hiya finally, often won when it mattered, and won a lot. Honourable mentions could go to Bisu and Forgg for their high caliber play, and to Action, who quietly garnered a 14-6 win-rate this month. Leta should've been on the power rank without a doubt. Flash on #1 is unbelievable given that he lost five(!) ace matches. Stats above Free does not represent the difference in quality that separates the strongest current protoss (free) from the second (stats). Baby is way, way too high on five. Even though a lot of subjectivity is involved in writing the power rank, it still demands reasoning and a good feel for which results are important and which aren't. I'm afraid that Plexa failed to value the performance of the top players well and I don't think this was the first time, nor that it will be the last. On a slightly different note, I don't buy into the idea that past results should factor into the power rank, as a sort of artificial boost given to them for as long as the memory of the result lasts. On the contrary, I believe that, when the power rank is an assessment of the relative power of the strongest starcraft players over the past month, that past results should have no bearing on it, but past performances should. Then you can say that when Flash won a final just before the month in question, the quality of those games should shine through in the current month's rank. However, anyone could've seen that Flash's standard of play from may was miles apart from his in june (and his play in late may was weaker than in early may). Therefore, it is reasonable to assume that Flash's relative power has gone down, compared to last month. To artificially put him on #1 just because he achieved great results earlier, is, in my opinion, certainly not correct. To conclude I'm disappointed that Plexa came out with such a weak power rank, and I believe that it is the incorrect calculation of the worth of a win, and the incorrect artificial boosting of players on (past) results rather than performances, that caused this. Still, a power rank is better than no power rank, and Plexa's writing skills and good intentions are above suspicion and should be praised. So I wish him luck with the coming month and I sincerly hope I'm wrong and that this month was just a fluke. | ||
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De4ngus
United States6533 Posts
On July 04 2010 10:36 jalstar wrote: Flash has never had a losing record against Bisu. Ever. In his whole career. Well good thing I'm not talking about his whole career then? + Show Spoiler + Do you not remember when Flash kept getting buttraped out of MSL and OSL? Then JWD kicked him off the powerrank LOL. Anyone else remember the protoss golden age where there were Bisu bonjwa threads all over the place and Bisu had the highest ELO peak? After which Jaedong taught zerg how to ZvP GG. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On July 04 2010 11 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 04 2010 11 end_of_the_skype_highlighting begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 04 2010 11 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:42 De4ngus wrote: Well good thing I'm not talking about his whole career then? + Show Spoiler + Do you not remember when Flash kept getting buttraped out of MSL and OSL? Then JWD kicked him off the powerrank LOL. Anyone else remember the protoss golden age where there were Bisu bonjwa threads all over the place and Bisu had the highest ELO peak? After which Jaedong taught zerg how to ZvP GG. So going 2-5 vs someone in games that aren't really all that prestigious in a 7 month period means "Couldn't figure out how to beat him"? That makes no sense. EDIT: and you seem to be the one not remembering | ||
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SimonB
United States1088 Posts
Jaedong and Bisu would usually fall out early in either the OSL or the MSL, but Flash would always qualify for both, and usually get kicked out of both at the same time because he couldn't focus on one. This would lead to the crazy idea on the Power Rank that Fantasy/Leta were seriously better than him, even if they got further in starleagues sometimes. It makes it all the more amazing what Flash has done over the last 9-10 months. People have already gotten humdrum over consecutive double finals, but it really is an amazing achievement (not to mention dominating PL/WL simultaneously). | ||
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De4ngus
United States6533 Posts
On July 04 2010 12:15 Shikyo wrote: So going 2-5 vs someone in games that aren't really all that prestigious in a 7 month period means "Couldn't figure out how to beat him"? That makes no sense. EDIT: and you seem to be the one not remembering ...um ok. Please tell me what I'm not remembering. I'm just talking about a short period of time where Bisu was in godmode, winning MSL and GOM. Then he ended up sucking and now people have to hype up players like Snow and Stats. | ||
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Vasoline73
United States8067 Posts
On July 04 2010 12:33 De4ngus wrote: ...um ok. Please tell me what I'm not remembering. I'm just talking about a short period of time where Bisu was in godmode, winning MSL and GOM. Then he ended up sucking and now people have to hype up players like Snow and Stats. I don't get it, Snow busts out of OSL and MSL with mediocre play after getting super hyped by CJ fans *and others* and suddenly Snow AND Stats are overhyped? Wtf does Stats have to do with it? I only say this because I saw the same sentiment expressed in the MSL F group LR thread.. Stats is a good player, still in OSL and MSL, barely hyped except by KTR fans and even then not alot, they just like him as a player. No one called him PvT Bonjwa after playing a few good games. I know you're not trying to slight Stats, but just because he's not fulfilling the shoes of the Protoss hero doesn't mean he's not a good player who deserves a level of hype. Sounds like people are just mad Snow turned out to be overhyped... (not attacking you personally) | ||
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jalstar
United States8198 Posts
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De4ngus
United States6533 Posts
I thought Stats was going to be really good last season until Jaedong raped him 3-0 killing Stats' scouting probe with a fucking drone every game. Anyway, I hope he does better, and he does seem to be improving. Protoss just never seems to have a good amount of top players that zerg and terran have always had, except for that one short "golden age." | ||
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Vasoline73
United States8067 Posts
On July 04 2010 12:55 jalstar wrote: Sorry, but how does Snow getting eliminated from rounds of leagues that Stats hasn't played yet prove Stats is better? Not supporting either player here, I'd personally pick Snow to play a PvT and Stats to play PvP and PvZ. Stats has actually been deep in an individual league before? Beating Fantasy & typeB, July twice and then coming back from 0-1 against Jangbi, before getting raped by Jaedong like any protoss player would.. Obviously if he gets knocked out of MSL and OSL like Snow you have a decent point, but just based purely off the hype for both players (Snow moreso than Stats) and the results they've shown Stats > Snow I think it's unfair to just write him off as "another Snow/shuttle" type player. EDIT: And yeah De4ngus I get you. Hard to be a protoss fan these days. | ||
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