EPTMost imba SC2 ability if put in SC1?
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Raneth
England527 Posts
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
it would be auto win for all of them so i dont see how something can be most imba | ||
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CruiseR
Poland4014 Posts
1. queen (rushes and early timings would unstoppable) 2. warp gate (close, maybe first if considering pvt or pvp , insta dt in main etc) 3. chrono boost (if used for like 2 gate proxy, if its only for producing probes, it would be fourth) 4. mule | ||
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seRapH
United States9756 Posts
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miseiler
United States1389 Posts
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
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Foreplay
United States1154 Posts
On March 09 2010 09:31 Two_DoWn wrote: Queen is the same as having another hatchery. All it does is save 150 minerals. It would have next to no effect on SC1 if it was there. 1 hatch hydra would destroy anything. | ||
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Polust
Costa Rica31 Posts
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JadeFist
United States1225 Posts
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seppolevne
Canada1681 Posts
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Jyvblamo
Canada13788 Posts
Queen is already in SC1. Pretty sure it's not imba. Also, Queen is not an ability.  | ||
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Zona
40426 Posts
On March 09 2010 09:31 Two_DoWn wrote: Queen is the same as having another hatchery. All it does is save 150 minerals. It would have next to no effect on SC1 if it was there. 150 mineral difference is huge when it comes to exponential economy growth, extra drones are produced more quickly, which mine more minerals, which allows more production, etc and since hatcheries are also the zerg's production building - that's like 40% off the cost of gateways or factories or barracks this results in all the zerg's attack timings being so much faster - and their expansions as well, since they can save minerals on all the no longer necessary extra hatcheries in their bases. | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
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intrigue
Washington, D.C9933 Posts
edit: which is what the results are too sick i'm so good! | ||
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Mastermind
Canada7096 Posts
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Shinshady
Canada1237 Posts
On March 09 2010 10:07 LunarDestiny wrote: Chrono Boost: Cannon rush becomes a legit opening. Chrono boost cant be used on buildings that are warping in only can be used to research things faster thus, chrono boost doesn't help cannon rush in anyway. | ||
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AzureEye
United States1360 Posts
On March 09 2010 10:02 Zona wrote: 150 mineral difference is huge when it comes to exponential economy growth, extra drones are produced more quickly, which mine more minerals, which allows more production, etc and since hatcheries are also the zerg's production building - that's like 40% off the cost of gateways or factories or barracks this results in all the zerg's attack timings being so much faster - and their expansions as well, since they can save minerals on all the no longer necessary extra hatcheries in their bases. Actually I think Queen/injecting larva as unfair in SC1 is exaggerrated by people who have limited understanding. In Broodwar, Z is forced to make another hatchery if it wants more production capabilities. This prevented Zerg from doing 1 base all-in aggressive plays like Protoss or Terran could like 5 gate goon PvZ, 4 rax sunken break etc. because they could stay in 1 base and create multiple production facilities, while Z has to pay more money for increased unit production (hatchery = 350, gateway/rax = 150) and their units are more fragile so the fact that each hatchery offers 3 larva barely compensates. If Z was forced to build another hatchery for more unit production, it almost always makes more sense to simply expand while you're doing that since it can't hurt you. Not to mention that scouting the number of hatcheries was a much more valuable scouting information than simply scouting a Terran going building factory, since he can go dual ports for heavy vessel usage, or increase factory and mass tanks, etc. Basically, Im saying that Z's meta-game is heavily restricted by the playstyle centered around hatcheries and this helps Zerg be more flexible race since, in my view, they were incredibly inflexible in broodwar I think having a worker that can bring in minerals 6 times the speed of your usual workers available so early in the game gives you superior economy and should not be in SC1 ever. Warp gates are almost as imbalanced in SC1 due to the degree to which they could be abused for early aggression | ||
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deL
Australia5540 Posts
On March 09 2010 09:12 MorroW wrote: most imba? it would be auto win for all of them so i dont see how something can be most imba This is what I thought too, but if all of them were in effect at once I think the protoss ones would win it. | ||
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checo
Mexico1364 Posts
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tre2ettsexsju
Sweden248 Posts
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andiCR
Costa Rica2273 Posts
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o3.power91
Bahrain5288 Posts
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ejac
United States1195 Posts
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Khalleb
Canada1909 Posts
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Polygamy
Austria1114 Posts
On March 09 2010 09:12 MorroW wrote: most imba? it would be auto win for all of them so i dont see how something can be most imba agreed | ||
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Ethelis
United States2396 Posts
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NrG.NeverExpo
Canada2114 Posts
If that's the case, i'd say that would be pretty imba :D | ||
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JohannesH
Finland1364 Posts
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semantics
10040 Posts
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QuakerOats
United States1024 Posts
On March 09 2010 11:49 o3.power91 wrote: Queen. 3 hatch hydra with up to +12 hydra? No contest XD Lol what? In 3 hatch hydra as-is Zerg spends ALL money on hydras. I don't understand why everyone is voting queen... they seem to think more larva translates into free units when it most definitely does not. | ||
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Tinithor
United States1552 Posts
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Ftrunkz
Australia2474 Posts
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
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Wings
United States999 Posts
On March 09 2010 09:19 miseiler wrote: The queen would make Kwanro god of SC1. I imagined it, and then I absolutely lol'd. Thank God/Blizzard that's not the case. | ||
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NET
United States703 Posts
2. Warp 3. I would say Chrono and Mule are pretty equal. | ||
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semantics
10040 Posts
On March 09 2010 14:30 Tinithor wrote: I picked chrono boost cause it has no downsides or costs associated with it, The addition of this would just make protoss better than the other races overall. Yup it cost nothing and you start with it and only helps you. Queen you have to tech to and build with your money and you need to buy the comsat crap and tech again for terran. warp gates are too far in the tech for rushzors which is my inital assessment of how it would break the game. | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
Imagine a guy being able to 3gate rush you instead of 2, but what do I know about sc2... | ||
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orcn00b
Spain27 Posts
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Vaul
New Zealand112 Posts
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writer22816
United States5775 Posts
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d_so
Korea (South)3262 Posts
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UnderWorld_Dream
Canada219 Posts
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SkelA
Macedonia13032 Posts
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beefhamburger
United States3962 Posts
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quinnydinny
United States38 Posts
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SturmAddict
Malaysia176 Posts
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ultimateq
United States114 Posts
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semantics
10040 Posts
On March 10 2010 00:35 beefhamburger wrote: Queens are also an anti-air unit. That negates so many sair/wraith builds allowing zerg to drone up without having to insta-tech to hydras for prevention and losing overlords early on. lol hydras are teir 1 it's hardly an issue to get hydra tech in sc1 also if all zerg did was mass drones he'd get fake saired and just get 2 gated | ||
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3FFA
United States3931 Posts
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da_head
Canada3350 Posts
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peidongyang
Canada2084 Posts
muahahahhahahahahahah | ||
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blahman3344
United States2015 Posts
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DreaM)XeRO
Korea (South)4667 Posts
 warp gates would be pretty boss though no more walking fucking dt's -_- | ||
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Leath
Canada1724 Posts
On March 09 2010 09:12 MorroW wrote: most imba? it would be auto win for all of them so i dont see how something can be most imba Take a balance, put two weights, each on one side A) 5 Kg and 5 Kg They are balanced B) 20 Kg and 5 Kg The balance has shifted its balance to the left side C) 6 Kg and 5 Kg The balance is slightly skewed towards the left side B) is the most imbalanced  | ||
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Gnaix
United States438 Posts
On March 09 2010 10:53 Shinshady wrote: Chrono boost cant be used on buildings that are warping in only can be used to research things faster thus, chrono boost doesn't help cannon rush in anyway. he means you can get enough minerals to support the cannons | ||
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Gnaix
United States438 Posts
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d(O.o)a
Canada5066 Posts
Queen: pretty self explanatory, zerg already get so much so fast T_T MULE: Imagine TvZ if they have this, 8rax becomes even more imba 0 supply super fast mining and you can get all the investment back. Chrono Boost: pretty self explanatory, speeds everything up Warp Gate: Most people put this way higher but I don't think it would be too huge of a deal, in SC we already kill every pylon we come across, although if you leave a manner pylon or get a pylon hidden in your base.... | ||
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a176
Canada6688 Posts
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PeT[uK]
United States412 Posts
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thezergk
United States492 Posts
On March 09 2010 11:25 checo wrote: Were is Nydus network option XD??? You can do a Nydus Network in SC1. It just requires a proxy hatch and Hive tech lol. | ||
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20_E.Reed
United States50 Posts
it would be even more effective because no lair needed PLUS u get 8 minerals per patch in sc1 no one would be able to survive 1 hatch hydra | ||
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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peanutter
Australia165 Posts
 and it does next to nothing | ||
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Chen
United States6344 Posts
On March 10 2010 11:49 a176 wrote: Dunno about queen. 150 minerals is alot to ask from a zerg in early game. Queen replaces a hatchery. i think its been well documented and proven that a queen>>> a normal hatchery. | ||
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Jyxz
United States117 Posts
On March 09 2010 09:31 Two_DoWn wrote: Queen is the same as having another hatchery. All it does is save 150 minerals. It would have next to no effect on SC1 if it was there. Yeah your right, queens don't attack, or have 2 other abilties... and they def wouldnt hit corsairs allowing you different teching options. | ||
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laste
Bulgaria242 Posts
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AzureEye
United States1360 Posts
This poll is too biased | ||
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Raneth
England527 Posts
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beefhamburger
United States3962 Posts
On March 10 2010 02:21 Virtue wrote: lol hydras are teir 1 it's hardly an issue to get hydra tech in sc1 also if all zerg did was mass drones he'd get fake saired and just get 2 gated Yes but you don't have to waste that ~100 gas (den + 2 hydras) speeding up his lair and tech which is a big deal. Having the queen alone will prevent early vult/wraith/sair with little to no losses more efficiently with no slowdown in teching. And if he 2 gates when you queen, that's even better since you'll have the queen which you can micro as well as even more lings with spawn larvae. | ||
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Yamato
United States33 Posts
On March 10 2010 01:43 SturmAddict wrote: how can you cast chrono boost when your nexus has no energy bar. easily the most balanced ability to be added. because you cant use it anyways yup. what about sc2 style hallucinations? =) | ||
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Storm)
Canada14 Posts
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Rambling.
Canada314 Posts
On March 09 2010 09:57 Jyvblamo wrote: Guys, guys! Queen is already in SC1. Pretty sure it's not imba. Also, Queen is not an ability. Queen is not an ability! True! | ||
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Gjon
Albania20 Posts
On March 10 2010 08:17 DreaM)XeRO wrote: dear god. with queens imagine a 2 hatch hydra . warp gates would be pretty boss though no more walking fucking dt's -_- soo tru... cant rush dts on desti as well as warping them in | ||
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haster27
Taiwan809 Posts
On March 10 2010 11:23 Leath wrote: Take a balance, put two weights, each on one side A) 5 Kg and 5 Kg They are balanced B) 20 Kg and 5 Kg The balance has shifted its balance to the left side C) 6 Kg and 5 Kg The balance is slightly skewed towards the left side B) is the most imbalanced Comparison fails. A) 5 Kg and 5 Kg. They are balanced. Let 5 Kg = x 20Kg and 5 Kg 4x and x. 4x > x. At this point side with 4x is the most imbalanced. However, if imba-ness of those two skills that are being compared increases dramatically, this logic breaks down completely. Let us assume x = infinity. 4(infinity) = infinity. Thus neither left skill (4x) or right skill (x) is most imbalanced as both of them are skills that would devastate even Flash when brought to SC 1. + Show Spoiler + Nah. Just j/k. I voted warp gates. | ||
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Cpt.beefy
Ireland799 Posts
stupid poll | ||
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Kakisho
United States240 Posts
On March 09 2010 09:31 Two_DoWn wrote: Queen is the same as having another hatchery. All it does is save 150 minerals. It would have next to no effect on SC1 if it was there. If it was exactly 150 minerals saved that means zergling rushes that have 6 more zerglings. Besides the fact that 12 zerglings early game will defeat other army, it also makes Zerg at a higher advantage. Beforehand, as time progressed the only way to maintain unit production would be to make another hatchery. Having queens which have creep tumor as well (which helps mid-to-late game) makes Zerg army 600 minerals bigger than the enemies. That's two control groups of zerglings that could be either coming in for a surround or just going straight for the enemy base while the normal armies clash. | ||
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kickinhead
Switzerland2069 Posts
*Edit: but warpgates are a close second! | ||
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win8282
Korea (South)454 Posts
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danl9rm
United States3111 Posts
On March 09 2010 10:02 Zona wrote: 150 mineral difference is huge when it comes to exponential economy growth, extra drones are produced more quickly, which mine more minerals, which allows more production, etc and since hatcheries are also the zerg's production building - that's like 40% off the cost of gateways or factories or barracks this results in all the zerg's attack timings being so much faster - and their expansions as well, since they can save minerals on all the no longer necessary extra hatcheries in their bases. wait a minute, wait a minute. how does the queen saving you 150 minerals(after costing you 150 minerals) equal to anything better than the MULE which gives you 270 FREE minerals?! | ||
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Papvin
Denmark610 Posts
On March 10 2010 11:23 Leath wrote: Take a balance, put two weights, each on one side A) 5 Kg and 5 Kg They are balanced B) 20 Kg and 5 Kg The balance has shifted its balance to the left side C) 6 Kg and 5 Kg The balance is slightly skewed towards the left side B) is the most imbalanced Just because I hate bad logic, I'm gonna comment this: + Show Spoiler [Boring pseudo logic/math] + Morrow is correct. Autowin would translated into probabilty mean 100% chance of winning, and therefor your two weights will both be infinity on the one side, and a finite (not nessesarilly the same) number on the other side, but the proportion between left and right side still being the same. Since the logical way of determining imbaness would be the proportion of left to right side (or infinite or zero if one is zero), they will both be just as imbalanced, that is, 100% chance of winning. | ||
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zul
Germany5427 Posts
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Leath
Canada1724 Posts
On March 11 2010 22:07 Papvin wrote: Just because I hate bad logic, I'm gonna comment this: + Show Spoiler [Boring pseudo logic/math] + Morrow is correct. Autowin would translated into probabilty mean 100% chance of winning, and therefor your two weights will both be infinity on the one side, and a finite (not nessesarilly the same) number on the other side, but the proportion between left and right side still being the same. Since the logical way of determining imbaness would be the proportion of left to right side (or infinite or zero if one is zero), they will both be just as imbalanced, that is, 100% chance of winning. But I was just exemplifying how something can be "most imbalanced", as in there are very degrees of imbalance as they fall farther and farther away from the equilibrium point. Even if any of the above mean autowin, there is always the question on how easy it was to autowin. Perhaps warpgate are not as hard to defend against, because they have several drawbacks: -You need to switch from gateway to warpgate which takes some time. -Your units production queue gets delayed after each new unit produced -You need a pylon to power up the location your units will appear (how hard is to get a pylon inside an opponent's base? You will need a shuttle (in most maps) anyway; except early game... where a warp gate would be similar to a proxy with slower reinforcements. Any player who successfully defends against it should come up on top from superior unit count. You can only get as many units... A simpler example, would be to make Zergling invincible + 9000 attack, and making Battle cruiser invincible with 9000 attack. Zergling is more imbalanced, because you it is easier to prevent a Terran from getting to the stage where he can make BC than preventing a zerg to get a ling out.  | ||
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GigelPintea
Romania47 Posts
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starcraft911
Korea (South)1263 Posts
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NiGoL
1868 Posts
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
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mista_sox
Australia6 Posts
If you had two unbalanced abilities for your race (say, chrono boost and warp-in for protoss), and they were mutually exclusive, which one would you use to get the best win rate? which one would win vs the other? @OP You forgot reactor, but that would be last anywho. I reckon queen, then chrono-boost. Warp-in requires a second tier tech, and a chrono boosted economy into chrono boosted gateways would kill someone using warp-in the vast majority of the time. Queen is just ridiculous, as a high econ zerg start off one base would be incredibly stable and powerful. | ||
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EGMachine
United States1643 Posts
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EleanorRIgby
Canada3923 Posts
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MeruFM
United States167 Posts
On March 11 2010 20:15 danl9rm wrote: wait a minute, wait a minute. how does the queen saving you 150 minerals(after costing you 150 minerals) equal to anything better than the MULE which gives you 270 FREE minerals?! Because they're not just 150 free minerals. They make even more than that. Not to mention they're also an early air attacker and can make hidden creep colonies that self-propagate. | ||
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nimbim
Germany984 Posts
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konadora
Singapore66160 Posts
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flikera.alex
Bulgaria7 Posts
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us.insurgency
United States330 Posts
On March 09 2010 09:57 Jyvblamo wrote: Guys, guys! Queen is already in SC1. Pretty sure it's not imba. Also, Queen is not an ability. if you consider the queen in sc1 the same as the queen in sc2 then you need to stop posting comments. | ||
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haster27
Taiwan809 Posts
On March 14 2010 04:47 us.insurgency wrote: if you consider the queen in sc1 the same as the queen in sc2 then you need to stop posting comments. Often I glance at which country some posters came from, and becomes immensely disappointed | ||
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
On March 14 2010 09:05 haster27 wrote: Often I glance at which country some posters came from, and becomes immensely disappointed ouch | ||
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Fruscainte
4596 Posts
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MutaDoom
Canada1163 Posts
On March 09 2010 09:25 CharlieMurphy wrote: Wtf queen? Easily chrono boost or warp gates Wtf queen? Easily chrono boost or | ||
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ZavikZyke
United States382 Posts
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Oddysay
Canada597 Posts
On March 09 2010 12:18 KhAlleB wrote: I'm curious to know why people vote for the mule because the mule are for terran user | ||
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iHeartToSsGirL
United States3 Posts
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TeabagInsurance
Canada320 Posts
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Love.Zelduck
United States170 Posts
Queen (2956) 40% OH GOD THE IRONY + Show Spoiler + It's already in bw. It's just (almost) worthless. You really shouldn't need this spoiler to get the joke, but lest I be misunderstood... | ||
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
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NiGoL
1868 Posts
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Khalleb
Canada1909 Posts
On March 16 2010 09:11 NiGoL wrote: ya seeker missile is a lill imba, no one has mentioned banelings? infestors? from my point of view SM look a bit like irradiate but he just do instant domage instead over time but i dont know how much less domage the irradiate does | ||
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Nightwolf
United States10 Posts
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hacpee
United States752 Posts
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PeAcY6969
France621 Posts
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LuDwig-
Italy1143 Posts
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Garnet
Vietnam9020 Posts
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Saugardas
121 Posts
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Piste
6177 Posts
On March 09 2010 10:53 AzureEye wrote: Actually I think Queen/injecting larva as unfair in SC1 is exaggerrated by people who have limited understanding. In Broodwar, Z is forced to make another hatchery if it wants more production capabilities. This prevented Zerg from doing 1 base all-in aggressive plays like Protoss or Terran could like 5 gate goon PvZ, 4 rax sunken break etc. because they could stay in 1 base and create multiple production facilities, while Z has to pay more money for increased unit production (hatchery = 350, gateway/rax = 150) and their units are more fragile so the fact that each hatchery offers 3 larva barely compensates. If Z was forced to build another hatchery for more unit production, it almost always makes more sense to simply expand while you're doing that since it can't hurt you. Not to mention that scouting the number of hatcheries was a much more valuable scouting information than simply scouting a Terran going building factory, since he can go dual ports for heavy vessel usage, or increase factory and mass tanks, etc. Basically, Im saying that Z's meta-game is heavily restricted by the playstyle centered around hatcheries and this helps Zerg be more flexible race since, in my view, they were incredibly inflexible in broodwar I think having a worker that can bring in minerals 6 times the speed of your usual workers available so early in the game gives you superior economy and should not be in SC1 ever. Warp gates are almost as imbalanced in SC1 due to the degree to which they could be abused for early aggression you are talking about "people who have limited understanding." I read what you wrote and I see you belong to the "people who think they knows when they actually don't know". hatchery = 350, gateway/rax = 150 hatchery is 300the fact that each hatchery offers 3 larva barely compensates hatchery offers one larva at a time, but you can save them maximum amount of 3If Z was forced to build another hatchery for more unit production, it almost always makes more sense to simply expand while you're doing that since it can't hurt you. this is not true at all. you expand when you know you can defend the bases. it's not even close to "almost". | ||
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KOFgokuon
United States14893 Posts
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slayerx557
1 Post
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Khalleb
Canada1909 Posts
On March 18 2010 06:28 slayerx557 wrote: LMAO YOU GUYS SERIOUS?...... INFESTORS THAT SPAWN INFESTED TERRAN WOULD BE SO DAM IMBA if infest terran still be kamikaz, if so hell ya | ||
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OminouS
Sweden1343 Posts
If you only add 1 abillity and the other races stay the same, chrono boost is the most imba one for sure. Early lots vs Z, early goons vs T. The timing would be so good with 50% faster production, it's not even a competition. | ||
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AzureEye
United States1360 Posts
On March 17 2010 09:08 Piste wrote: you are talking about "people who have limited understanding." I read what you wrote and I see you belong to the "people who think they knows when they actually don't know". hatchery is 300 hatchery offers one larva at a time, but you can save them maximum amount of 3 this is not true at all. you expand when you know you can defend the bases. it's not even close to "almost". What a great way to refute my argument by using Ad Hominem attacks Hatchery is 350 sir, 300 + the cost of the drone. It's actually more than 350 because the loss of the drone's mining time but we'll play safe & nice and just say its 350. Your point about hatchery offering one larva at a time actually helps my argument more because you just aided my point about hatchery's inferiority unable to compensate for the lack of production buildings. I'm saying that by building another hatchery for increasing unit production, its ideal to place it where your expo will be because you can create another expo that way at the same time as increasing unit production. | ||
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semantics
10040 Posts
On March 18 2010 07:23 KhAlleB wrote: if infest terran still be kamikaz, if so hell ya instead of the infested terran being a terran that somehow shotting the same rine gun does less damage and cannot move at all. t-t it actually would be a better skill if it would just consume all your energy and spawn as many as possible all at once instead of taking 2 mins to waste your energy on them. Or make them spawn in groups of like 5 or 10 | ||
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Kare
Norway786 Posts
Imagine a terran dropping a few hellions in the protosses main, the protoss has his army/units away from his base and you have a potential to do alot of damage to his workers. He just targets his warpgates, spams stalker or whatever at the harass area and BOOM, harass stopped.... | ||
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Piste
6177 Posts
On March 18 2010 09:03 AzureEye wrote: What a great way to refute my argument by using Ad Hominem attacks Hatchery is 350 sir, 300 + the cost of the drone. It's actually more than 350 because the loss of the drone's mining time but we'll play safe & nice and just say its 350. Your point about hatchery offering one larva at a time actually helps my argument more because you just aided my point about hatchery's inferiority unable to compensate for the lack of production buildings. I'm saying that by building another hatchery for increasing unit production, its ideal to place it where your expo will be because you can create another expo that way at the same time as increasing unit production. You lose your drone whatever you build. hatchery costs 300, not 350. drone costs 50. Your point about hatchery offering one larva at a time actually helps my argument more because you just aided my point about hatchery's inferiority unable to compensate for the lack of production buildings. I know what I said. I corrected you. hatch offers one larva at a time. You're wrong about the "compensate" thing tho.I'm saying that by building another hatchery for increasing unit production, its ideal to place it where your expo will be because you can create another expo that way at the same time as increasing unit production. That is what you say now, but this is what you said: If Z was forced to build another hatchery for more unit production, it almost always makes more sense to simply expand while you're doing that since it can't hurt you. And it is not true. | ||
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AzureEye
United States1360 Posts
Spawning pool costs 200, but you lose a drone to make it so its actually 250, etc. You have to consider the cost of the drone you lose when you calculate Zerg building or its not accurate. Its just like ignoring SCV's loss of mining time during construction versus probe simply warping a building and going back to mine. | ||
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Piste
6177 Posts
You start with four drones. how many minerals you have to mine before you can build a hatchery? + Show Spoiler [answer] + 300 | ||
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