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colonel_west
Sweden7 Posts
Wether incontrol or idra was BM? We all know both were BM and to what extend is a subjective matter so it wont be solved here anyway. Wether incontrol as a Tournament Admin is in his right to be BM or interfer in the gameplay even if he stated that he might do that in the rules of the event? That matter should be discussed and solved among the resonsible parts, ie TL stall who sponsored the event and incontrol himself - which again makes the subject inappropropriate on this forum. | ||
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Railxp
Hong Kong1313 Posts
Ignorant, uneducated, taken out of circumstance, high and mighty, shielded by a user name opinion: Apologize and please disregard post if i got my facts completely wrong. The "this is my amateur tourney i can do w/e the fuck i want" argument doesn't really float very well. I'm sure all players expect a certain level of fairness when they join any type of tournament. No matter how many caveats Inc places before his tournament, whether wants to or not, he still represents TL in public occasions, and TL will be in the mind of any who join. And the TL carries with it a certain level of quality. Even with the TL commandments in place, any mods that make drastic decisions draw a lot of flack from the community. Despite what you might say and want, the relationship is not a one-way top-down situation. And in this case admin intervention to "punish" a specific player doesn't seem to be fair. Arguably inc would have done the exact same to any other player who BMed, but unless there are pre-written guidelines, theres no way to know for sure. And writing "the admins are Gods" is not really a good rule because it does not convey what behavior is expected from the players. Gods are worshiped, but they also get damned and have their books burnt by other people. Idra doesn't need to be treated with fluffy mittens, he just needs to be treated with a fishing pole. Held off a couple of meters away with a long stick between and hung out to dry, and if it stinks too much, dropped without too much personal involvement. Admin-player relationship needs to be distant to remain objective and fair, and replacing the fishing rod with an e-penis doesnt work, even if your epeen is very long. | ||
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Frieder
Italy231 Posts
On August 09 2009 16:43 Diggity wrote: Remember in theoretical physics when applications to renormalization groups exploded due to the canonization of the Standard Model? More about renormalization groups here On topic, sportsmanship and game play are so intertwined that they effect the spectator’s enjoyment of the tournament itself in my opinion. In other words a players behavior before, during, and after a game can dictate the level of enjoyment all parties (including spectators) derive from the tournament itself. Incontrol is obviously concerned about the quality of his tournament. He is also making a serious effort to make as many of the games available to spectators as possible. Therefore he must be concerned about the behavior of the players as well as the game play itself. I am extremely impressed with Incontrol's decision making in this tournament, particularly his balance between quality of play and player behavior. It really shows a high level of maturity in my opinion. Totally agree with this. | ||
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jeremycafe
United States354 Posts
Really? "save rep after you win dinot" is mature to say as an admin observing a game at the start? "don't do a power struggle with the guy who awards win and losses in a 1k$ tourney" is mature to say when he was in fact the one on the power trip? hmm. I think I need to redefine my understanding of mature so I can feel the same way. | ||
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jeremycafe
United States354 Posts
If you look at my posting history, I have been on the IdrA rants as well. Why? Because they represent our country in the professional scene. We have a very small representation, and when the few who make and shape the image of our country act this way, its an embarrassment to all of us. We are talking about two of the most common names in SC from the united states, can you imagine the reaction of any fan who might see that log overseas? It looks like a couple of middle schoolers going at it. Its sad, pathetic, and immature. Why in the world any pro team would want to risk their image to bring some egotistical players who can't deal with being wrong or losing is beyond me. | ||
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rredtooth
5459 Posts
On August 11 2009 01:52 jeremycafe wrote: its a video game... online... if you base the image of a country off of the behaviors of gamers, you are doing something very wrong.To those of you who have been commenting with "why is this being discussed still"...here is why (at least why I get worked up on stuff like this). If you look at my posting history, I have been on the IdrA rants as well. Why? Because they represent our country in the professional scene. We have a very small representation, and when the few who make and shape the image of our country act this way, its an embarrassment to all of us. We are talking about two of the most common names in SC from the united states, can you imagine the reaction of any fan who might see that log overseas? It looks like a couple of middle schoolers going at it. Its sad, pathetic, and immature. Why in the world any pro team would want to risk their image to bring some egotistical players who can't deal with being wrong or losing is beyond me. | ||
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jeremycafe
United States354 Posts
Are you really that stupid? It's about the reputation of our players within the gaming community. If you actually thought I was referring to the reputation of our country in general, you are an idiot. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
On August 10 2009 21:02 IdrA wrote: actually he said 'dinot save reps when you win' before i made any comment besides 'k get out' He might as well have said "fuck you, Idra, you piece of shit, I relish in your misery". | ||
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Ghost151
United States290 Posts
On August 10 2009 19:49 Hadrian wrote: No, calling Incontrol a "terrible admin" was. Incontrol already implied that he would leave by telling Dinot to save the rep. If Idra had not responded with the terrible admin comment, everything would have been golden. But since he did... Inc just pissed Idra off a bit further, which I think is totally fine. It was Idra's choice to participate in the tourney. maybe read the chat log? Its chronological from top to bottom bud. Idra says "k get out" whether or not this is offensive is purely a subjective matter, but as we know 1) inc and idra had come to some sort of agreement that inc would leave should the game start to lag again 2) idra is apparently BM often, and thus has his reputation for it 3) both player and admin have big egos. while not the most graceful way to ask, for whatever reason Inc *does* take offense at this, responding with : "...let's pretend I have a huge ego..." and then just before Idra's 2nd response: "save rep after you win dinot" all this happens *before* idra responds with the bad admin comment. Inc took two shots at idra first, and what can you expect to come next? screw professionalism. if inc wanted to be God in *his* tourney then so be it, but damn man, don't attack somebody for a perceived slight. at worst his request was just poorly worded. I don't say rude because they both were at an understanding already about what *should* have happened. Really Inc is just out of line for going so far as to antogonize idra for such a comment( the first, not after "bad admin"), given the scenario already established. If he really had such a damn problem then he should have just called it there and been done with it. I really don't see how anybody can defend inc's actions against idra with a simple excuse like he deserves it or something. When the guy who is running shit is out of line, the whole thing is just gonna go to shit from there, especially if other hotheaded people are involved. and about this: On August 09 2009 14:15 {88}iNcontroL wrote: listen people I make a big ass post in the other thread about this (tourney section) but it basically comes down to this: IdrA is an asshole about stuff and in other tourneys he'd get penalized/removed etc for talking to the admin that way. I "penalized" him by staying for another minute and telling him I wouldn't bow to his BS. If that seems unfair to you guys too damn bad. He should have taken the hint and just DQed him to let him know he wasn't gonna put up with Idra's shit, but I do respect the fact that it is *HIS* tourney and *HIS* rules. I just think it could have been handled better. in short: I think Inc was wrong in how he handled it, but not wrong to do it period. Jerks will get treated in kind, and this should been somewhat expected considering the two's egos anyway. EDIT: oh, and DRAMA! | ||
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psion0011
Canada720 Posts
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errol1001
454 Posts
'k get out' seems, to me, to be totally acceptable within the context. It's a bit short, blunt, but that's what you expect when people want to be playing the game and not dealing with admins? Since that's the only thing Idra said before Inc started trolling, I'm on Idra's side. It's not bm to respond in kind... | ||
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fly.stat
United States449 Posts
Yeah, your tournament, I get it, nice trump card. My roof, my rules. By that logic just ban everyone from the tournament and declare yourself the winner. Of course you wouldn't do that, but it just shows how bad of an excuse it is to pour gas on idra's fire. Also, I support the opinion that "k get out" shouldn't send you into to a vindictive fit. | ||
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
On August 10 2009 00:18 No_eL wrote: GOGOGOGO DinOt!!!!! and Idra?.... well i hate this guy. Its the personification of all the worst things about sc players. Its a shame for all the foreign scene of sc:bw... Don´t feed the Troll!! Let Idra starving to death!!  please go die.but i wish i cld cheese like dinot=/ | ||
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1a2a3aProtoss
Canada25 Posts
lets fucking move on and have a group hug. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
On August 11 2009 12:56 1a2a3aProtoss wrote: this is really pathetic. Why are we bashing on Incontrol whos spending his time to run a fucking tournament people. Idra has a long history of being very proud and arrogant and thinks he runs shit because he plays in korea only because kespa wants to spread starcraft populatiry into North America. Idra bm'd straight up and Incontrol as an admin flexed his admin muscles. TIdra bm'd a referee, in any organized sport that merits an auto ban. lets fucking move on and have a group hug. Or maybe he's in Korea because he can actually play against some B-team players with some competency. You can't disagree with me because I'm running this tournament. Send me the replays after you lose, you little shit. | ||
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wadadde
270 Posts
"pls leave" is a request. It doesn't take any effort and it's not licking Incontrols nutsack, ok? How anyone doesn't get that is completely beyond me. Incontrol could have left it at that or flipped out, but he chose to be witty and stay reasonably collected. Idra's insecure personality doesn't excuse anything. Idra knows perfectly well how to be courtious and the importance of it.. he just chooses not to be. That's just plain DUMB. I didn't really enjoy any of the games of the semis though. Such onesided games... (Idra and) WhiteRa just too too good! I hope Dinot prepares some good cheeses in the finals or it'll be as one sided as JF vs white ra. | ||
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groro
67 Posts
On August 11 2009 15:46 wadadde wrote: "k get out" is not an insult or a request. It's an order! "pls leave" is a request. It doesn't take any effort and it's not licking Incontrols nutsack, ok? agree. all this argumentation with this "dear, mr, sir, please" long sentences are redundant. and again its not like they were born yesterday and that what happend in the screenshot is the first point of contact. there is a history aswell in the tournament as before. a history which interacts with assessment of words and actions. sure isolated to this screenshot incontrol is the one who acted more childish and from looking at it afterwards more neutral without the dynamic of the moments and the tension, it would be more "professional" to leave in that situation and to disqualify Idra already before when he is bm. but I guess in that situation you have some cleavage in you. on one hand you dont want to execlude him directly from the tournament and take away his chance of the money, on the other hand you can hardly tolerate bm in YOUR tournament like flaming dinot and all this maybe can lead you to this situation where you just begin to handle it your way, when the moment accurs where the barrel of your tolerance gets flooded. besides of any norm what would be in this situation more objective and fair. | ||
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RaiZ
2813 Posts
I'm curious about idra's mannerism though : Has he ever said 10 "gg" on his 10 consecutives loses ? If he didn't maybe it'll learn him a lot about how to behave in the gaming comunity. Oh well i don't care. On another note : Am i the only one who got impressed by dinot very very aggressive's style ? I really love it. It's almost like he showed us how the Z should be played... Much like yellow / julyzerg. | ||
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groro
67 Posts
imo in comparsion of a parent-child relationships, parents who just tolerate everything are same as worse as parents who just critize everything without a little bit of approval. you need to set fillips to make it attrative to strive for positive things and fillips to make negative things more avoidable. the early you learn it, the easier you can handle it in the future and as older you get the more your personality gets cemented. so i think people who tolerate everything from idra arent doing him a favour either. then everytime there will be also people that jump on the bandwagon, use it to take revenge on him with the intention to put him down anyways. in the valor tournament where superdanielman turned into superrageman the way he attacked him was not appropriate but after that idra had atleast a much bigger fillip to act professional and said gg and left it to that even in games where he lost when i remember correctly. i dont like when people force someone to be something which he isnt. like oh you are more a silent person that doesnt fit for me to my image of what has the most starquality and what not. be like this and that so i can praise you even more. manners and to learn to interact positive with other people from your environment however is for me a complete different subject. but everybody close to idra and every admin must judge for themselves with what they do in the long run him and the community a bigger favour. note: sorry if use words that are usally used in a different context. but i still must look from time to time in a online dictionary to express myself in an english forum. | ||
OneOther
United States10774 Posts
On August 10 2009 14:43 Xeris wrote: because it's an issue with the administration? O__O;; people are still talking about Tom Donaghey... he just bet on NBA games, he may or may not have actually rigged the outcomes.. so why do we talk about it? do you seriously have to ask that question ;p because the Tom Donaghey issue casts a shadow on the entire NBA's integrity and operations inc and idra bmed each other in game. sure, inc is the admin for this tournament, but who honestly cares about what happened? it's different from the Donaghey case in that this was a single, isolated incident. inc didn't go around obbing games and bming the players. for Donaghey, on the other hand, people just had no idea to what extent he cheated. we didn't know how prevalent betting was, or how far he exactly took it. the series is over and that's that. this does not deserve several pages of attention. (the only real issue is that tau cross wasn't in the map pool) | ||
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