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The Highlander - Semifinal Results
August 9th, 2009 00:05 GMT
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
On July 29 2009 06:48 Liquid`NonY wrote:
DRAMAAAAAAAAAAA
AMERICAAAAAAAAAAA
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idra i dont care what everyone says about you.. i think your a ok guy \o\ ^_^
Good luck white-ra and dinot Hopfully we will have some good games !
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gogogo DinOt 
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Does this mean the DinOt/IdrA games aren't even worth watching? 
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
The are worth watching imo
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AHAHAH now thats idra mah nerd.
Honestly tough i hope that the decision wont have any impact on his behavior whatsoever.
On the contray i hope it empowers idra with even more rage so that we can get more juicy and hilarious idrama.
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51374 Posts
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pwned much?
Keep being BM idra, we all love it.
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On August 09 2009 09:14 Lz wrote:
idra i dont care what everyone says about you.. i think your a ok guy \o\ ^_^
Good luck white-ra and dinot Hopfully we will have some good games !
Yeah, I like IdrA he shows that everyone has a shot at being good at SC and props to IdrA for going to Korea alone, which would be a really tough decision to make in my opinion.. although he can get a little mouthy like the rest of us. (sometimes more angrier then others)
@Incontrol, What do you mean "fake games?" anyways GREAT work so far with the tournament and all, you are doing a great job and I believe you made a pretty good decision about Idrama.
Look forward to the finals~
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wtf is this idra losing crap T_T
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Its nice to be emo once in a while, the drama is always priceless
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+ Show Spoiler +Wait.... he seriously called Dinot a 'faggot'?
Like.. is the copy-pasted or paraphrased?
I dont really get why the Tau Cross game wouldnt count. Is it because of the lag or just the map overall? If it was in the map pool I'm confused as to why it would be a big deal.
That aside, incontrol you are a total fuckin beast. You make me glad I live in Oregon. Keep up your badassery please.
Good luck to IdrA though, he is a strong player and hopefully I get to see him at Blizzcon.
EDIT: Oh I read the post wrong the first time, I see you said 'unofficial' my bad. I can see why you came to the decision you did though.
After seeing the chat log i'm sorta on the fence. I have decided to be neutral on the matter. Leaving what I said in quotes for those who are bored.
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There is no Game 4 in the White-Ra vs Tarson. There is only a copy of game 3.
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After watching DinOt vs IdrA game 2, I have to say, Geoff, you were kinda dickish yourself. If he says it lags, and your a obs, you leave.
It seemed to have mentally effected IdrA that he was losing to cheesy zerg builds, and you argued with him.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
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On August 09 2009 10:21 ZZangDreamjOy wrote:
After watching DinOt vs IdrA game 2, I have to say, Geoff, you were kinda dickish yourself. If he says it lags, and your a obs, you leave.
It seemed to have mentally effected IdrA that he was losing to cheesy zerg builds, and you argued with him.
I'd say it's even worse when you're the tournament admin acting that way. Antagonizing players like that, even idra, is so fucking childish for an admin. It's embarrassing seeing someone who tries to make themselves an ambassador for pro starcraft/gaming acting like that
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the games were awesome
and thanks for the stream Lz <3
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Im glad to see 2 great players and the most important, MANNER players in the finals
And not someone that acts like a child, and that doesnt know the word GG, manner, etc..
And he still have "fans"....
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How does one open .rar files?? zip woulda been easier imo.
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Good to know the admin is a power tripper douche that cares more about his ego than the quality of games. I guess Greg was right when he called you terrible. If I'm missing the context with this, please enlighten me, but that's how you come off with these segments and your decision.
lol at using the money as pulling rank, afaik it's not even your money but some benefactor's.
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On August 09 2009 11:00 StalkerSC wrote:How does one open .rar files?? zip woulda been easier imo.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=rar
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On August 09 2009 11:00 StalkerSC wrote:How does one open .rar files?? zip woulda been easier imo.
o.O
http://www.rarlab.com/
rar is a very common type of extension today
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Wait, so why did the players not regame immediately upon finding Tau Cross to be the map? If Idra knew it was the wrong map, shouldn't he seek a regame immediately? If neither players knew about the mistake, then you can't bring up the issue afterwards after a loss.
It seems to me the score should count after the game has finished.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On August 09 2009 11:29 baubo wrote:
Wait, so why did the players not regame immediately upon finding Tau Cross to be the map? If Idra knew it was the wrong map, shouldn't he seek a regame immediately? If neither players knew about the mistake, then you can't bring up the issue afterwards after a loss.
It seems to me the score should count after the game has finished.
I have no idea about this. Inc was admining the 18CET session (ida,xiaozi,dinot,horror) while I admined the 21CET (jf, whitera, bratok, tarson)
You'll have to ask incontrol
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On August 09 2009 11:27 Sadistx wrote:Good to know the admin is a power tripper douche that cares more about his ego than the quality of games. I guess Greg was right when he called you terrible. If I'm missing the context with this, please enlighten me, but that's how you come off with these segments and your decision. lol at using the money as pulling rank, afaik it's not even your money but some benefactor's.
Most tournaments / leagues disqualify / assess points you for talking like that, he can do whatever the fuck he wants... it's his tournament. I would probably kick him out right there.
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I agree Idra was way out of line as he usually is. However I think you should have replayed the game anyway. It was clearly against the rules and even if Idra is the embodiment of unprofessional I think you should have taken the high road and replayed the game. If not atleast penalize Idra for BM.
Not that it matters a great deal but you should take the high road Inc. Don't let Idra make you stoop to his level. We know you're better than that.
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incontrol didn't stoop to his level. His statements seemed pretty levelheaded and calm, although it's gm to leave if you lag.
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On August 09 2009 11:27 Sadistx wrote:
If I'm missing the context with this, please enlighten me...
So I was watching that part of the tournament live and Idra had been pretty arrogant right from the start. Then he got 1-0'd by Dinot and refused to let the next game be streamed (he said it was lagging to much but Inc thought it was a temper tantrum.) This happened during the 1st game Idra didn't allow to be streamed. Idra seemed upset at this point and Inc thought he was acting childish by not allowing the stream to be run... and at that point the chat you posted happened.
That's about as impartial a description as I can give of the events. I will admit that I don't think Idra's bm is funny or cool generally (although I'm not overly bothered by it--just not a fan) and I wasn't happy with Idra at that point since it was fun to watch Lz cast the games live and Idra was nixing that.
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On August 09 2009 11:27 Sadistx wrote:Good to know the admin is a power tripper douche that cares more about his ego than the quality of games. I guess Greg was right when he called you terrible. If I'm missing the context with this, please enlighten me, but that's how you come off with these segments and your decision. lol at using the money as pulling rank, afaik it's not even your money but some benefactor's.
Imo, that chat upped the quality of the game. In fact, Idra was put on my favourite terrans-list after it. Furthermore, he is cheesing more now! My utmost gratitude for the lulz and drama, Idra.
Q for tournament officials - will the VODs of the semi-final stream be made available?
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This all makes me very happy.
Go DinOt!
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In some odd way I feel this is compensation for the 3rd game BS vs. Castro, who played Idra straight and very well the first 2 games. That series should not have been decided by lag and manner. To have Idra go through 2 consecutive rounds of controversy/forfeits/replayed games would have been just plain awful.
Hopefully all is well in the universe now. Looking forward to the finals!
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On August 09 2009 11:55 meathook wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2009 11:27 Sadistx wrote:Good to know the admin is a power tripper douche that cares more about his ego than the quality of games. I guess Greg was right when he called you terrible. If I'm missing the context with this, please enlighten me, but that's how you come off with these segments and your decision. lol at using the money as pulling rank, afaik it's not even your money but some benefactor's. Imo, that chat upped the quality of the game. In fact, Idra was put on my favourite terrans-list after it. Furthermore, he is cheesing more now! My utmost gratitude for the lulz and drama, Idra. Q for tournament officials - will the VODs of the semi-final stream be made available?
I actually agree, the drama alone makes it worth watching and the fact that Idra usually lasts until at least the semis gives lots of opportunities for drama 
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On August 09 2009 11:43 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2009 11:29 baubo wrote:
Wait, so why did the players not regame immediately upon finding Tau Cross to be the map? If Idra knew it was the wrong map, shouldn't he seek a regame immediately? If neither players knew about the mistake, then you can't bring up the issue afterwards after a loss.
It seems to me the score should count after the game has finished. I have no idea about this. Inc was admining the 18CET session (ida,xiaozi,dinot,horror) while I admined the 21CET (jf, whitera, bratok, tarson) You'll have to ask incontrol
If they're casting replays, I'm guessing not even incontrol knew what happened until afterwards.
I'm just surprised that neither player said anything about the map until afterwards. You'd think they care enough about the tournament to at least know which maps they should play on.
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On August 09 2009 11:27 Sadistx wrote:Good to know the admin is a power tripper douche that cares more about his ego than the quality of games. I guess Greg was right when he called you terrible. If I'm missing the context with this, please enlighten me, but that's how you come off with these segments and your decision. lol at using the money as pulling rank, afaik it's not even your money but some benefactor's.
Well if you read it, it seems he was going to leave due to lag but then IdrA couldn't keep his mouth shut and kept pushing buttons so he got what he deserved, this kind of back chat in other sport or in Korean eSports would have recieved the same kind of response imo. Glad to see people don't take everyone's BM shit now.
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On August 09 2009 11:27 Sadistx wrote:Good to know the admin is a power tripper douche that cares more about his ego than the quality of games. I guess Greg was right when he called you terrible. If I'm missing the context with this, please enlighten me, but that's how you come off with these segments and your decision. lol at using the money as pulling rank, afaik it's not even your money but some benefactor's.
That wasn't biased in the slightest. "Greg" starts trashtalking, so the admin starts being an asshole - that's how the world works.
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I like how some mention that InControl shouldn't be on a "power trip", when Idra seems to think everyone should bow down to him because he plays with a Korean pro team. Fuck that, he's not god, and mad respect for InControl for helping him realize that. It seriously is clear that Greg has gotten it into his skull that he's better than everyone else, and therefore has a right to talk down to them. 3 words: FUCK THAT SHIT.
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keep in mind, Inc DID infact leave shortly after. Its not like he stayed just to piss idra off, but idra was running his mouth and you dont stab the hand that feeds you (in this case, the tourney head)
In any other tournament, Idra woulda been DQ'd for bm long longggg ago.
Anyone want to start a petition to make it manditory on TL to refer to idra as "idrama"??
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On August 09 2009 12:30 synapse wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2009 11:27 Sadistx wrote:Good to know the admin is a power tripper douche that cares more about his ego than the quality of games. I guess Greg was right when he called you terrible. If I'm missing the context with this, please enlighten me, but that's how you come off with these segments and your decision. lol at using the money as pulling rank, afaik it's not even your money but some benefactor's. That wasn't biased in the slightest. "Greg" starts trashtalking, so the admin starts being an asshole - that's how the world works.
Trash talking?
People are obviously going to get another when the admin (lol..) doesn't leave when he's lagging, especially when there's a big prize involved.. Observers leave when they lag, that's how obs'ing StarCraft works. He left shortly afterward, but wtf's the point in just taunting him
On the bright side, to me this has been the only thing in the tournament worth commenting on (although I guess my fav Zergs getting knocked out early had something to do with this :p)
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On August 09 2009 10:02 HuskyTheHusky wrote:
Wait.... he seriously called Dinot a 'faggot'?
Like.. is the copy-pasted or paraphrased?
I dont really get why the Tau Cross game wouldnt count. Is it because of the lag or just the map overall? If it was in the map pool I'm confused as to why it would be a big deal.
That aside, incontrol you are a total fuckin beast. You make me glad I live in Oregon. Keep up your badassery please.
Good luck to IdrA though, he is a strong player and hopefully I get to see him at Blizzcon.
EDIT: Oh I read the post wrong the first time, I see you said 'unofficial' my bad. I can see why you came to the decision you did though.
I think he only called incontrol a faggot.
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I'm a bit surprised that Dinot won, gonna watch the replays asap.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
listen people I make a big ass post in the other thread about this (tourney section) but it basically comes down to this: IdrA is an asshole about stuff and in other tourneys he'd get penalized/removed etc for talking to the admin that way. I "penalized" him by staying for another minute and telling him I wouldn't bow to his BS. If that seems unfair to you guys too damn bad.
I left before any kind of battle happened and it wasn't like the lag was horrendous, just a lil lag that makes things uncomfortable. I said I'd leave and I was going to but he kept mouthing off.
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Calgary25967 Posts
Yes, in fact I think that is incredibly unfair. As a tournament organizer, your role is to be a seemless administrator who ensures the results are as they should be. To take any action to affect the results (be it lag, or even sending him on tilt) like this is ridiculous. Further, the fact that you see nothing wrong with it is a little more worrisome. Even further, I can't believe that everyone feels that IdrA deserved this based on the chat logs.
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GL to both players and props to Lz for the stream
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On August 09 2009 14:23 Chill wrote:
Yes, in fact I think that is incredibly unfair. As a tournament organizer, your role is to be a seemless administrator who ensures the results are as they should be. To take any action to affect the results (be it lag, or even sending him on tilt) like this is ridiculous. Further, the fact that you see nothing wrong with it is a little more worrisome. Even further, I can't believe that everyone feels that IdrA deserved this based on the chat logs.
If he spoke to you half the way he did to me you'd have banned him and removed him from the tourney. Don't for one second get all high and mighty on me.. the admins of TSL had gripes with players at various times and that could have impacted the "emotional state" or w/e of the players but the world doesn't work that way. You don't handle children in adult bodies with silk mittens when they act like children. Sure I probably should have been more mature and just penalized him a game or w/o'd him but I wanted him to play.. emotionally unsound or not.
There was more discussion going on then the chat logs Chill. Educate yourself before you start taking a side.
And I said from the very fucking beginning that this wasn't going to be a professional tourney with pages of rules and formal discussions and shit. I said that this is a tourney to cap off the life of BW and I later explained that that means any stupid shit will be dealt with in a like fashion.
This has always been my tourney and this has always been the way I have ran it. You didn't seem to mind when players were no-showing and BM'ing me on MSN because I didn't change the times for them individually.. no.. because you didn't know. You don't seem to care that IdrA has been a dick this entire time and probably got put on "tilt" not by my discussion but by his own stupid play. Gimme a break.. if a pro gamer cannot overcome a 1 minute discussion with a tourney admin he is acting like a fag to he has no business being a pro.
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Calgary25967 Posts
No, Incontrol, I would never ban someone for how they talked to me. Because I always argue for an objective ruleset so there's no arbitrary decisions. Once you base things on BM, you've opened a huge can of worms and given up all objectivity that you held for your tournament.
I'm not saying you should avoid interfering with the tournament at all costs, because it's impossible to be 100% transparent when you're involved in dealing with the players and making game-changing decisions. However, the effect you have should be a side-effect. For example, you staying in the game is for no "greater good" that simply being a dick to IdrA. That should be dealt with outside of the game.
I don't need to educate myself because I don't care what happened outside of the game. I see you interfering with your own tournament in the game, and now saying you're justified in it. I'm just saying that's a really bad opinion to have when you're a tournament admin. Whatever happened before doesn't matter because he is playing and you are not. It's your job to cater to him in this situation, not the other way around. If you don't care about that, then just come out and say that you don't care and you want to be able to interfere with the results of your tournament, but don't try to say that the ideal situation is the administrator interfering with games and try to justify that.
I care because this is on the TL front page, so obviously there's some spillover. If it was you posting threads in the Brood War forum then I'd have no business offering my opinion. Even now I really don't have any business, but the affiliation with us means it should have some semblance of a competitive tournament. I think it's a copout to just say "It's not a professional tournament, I can do what I want." There's expectations when people signup for a tournament like this, and one of them is that they're going to be allowed to play in a fair, competitive environment. I mean if you started messaging your friends what their opponent was doing and then cited "my tournament", while you would be correct, there would still be a feeling that something wrong happened. And that's the same feeling here.
And yes, indeed, I didn't mind when something happened that I wasn't aware of. We're not here to infer into what the requirements of a player's mind are to be in your tourney; we're discussing whether your actions were justified at all, which they weren't. So it's not a big deal, I wish you would just say you fucked up and move on instead of trying to justify your effect on the games.
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But it was a joke guys! Idra was just joking! Here, let me copy/paste what Hot_Bid said about something like this before.
+ Show Spoiler +Link--->On August 07 2009 03:35 Hot_Bid wrote:calm the fuck down, your reactions are why video game communities get so much crap and are viewed with such stigma, there's no need to get butthurt insecure over a 1 liner offhand joke by someone, jesus. have you ever made fun of friends or done good natured trash talk before? ie basically every single healthy irl guy relationship involves a lot of giving and getting back (in terms of insults). lets not be sensitive nerds please.
See? Let's just be friends.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
This thread is now about SC2GG. Thanks Psy LOL.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
Never give out your password or credit card number in an instant message conversation.
Blake says:
basically, instead of writing that novel
Blake says:
i shoudl ahve just said
Blake says:
it would be better if you didnt interfere
geoff says:
in a perfect world.. I say nothing. Leave.. let them play etc. But the fact is he was being a dick before today, before this game, during this game and well after.
Blake says:
nah i get it
geoff says:
I was OK with him getting a very small taste of his own medicine. I was about to leave anyways btw
geoff says:
and he just kept mouthing off
geoff says:
so I sit for 1 minute
Blake says:
but as tourney admin its your job
geoff says:
then leave anyways
Blake says:
for the sake of the tourne
Blake says:
to swallow your pride
geoff says:
I understand that 100%. But I think it is a 2 sided coin. This is MY tourney.. and I wouldn't want to look back and think "well at least the games were good." When people like Arew, IdrA etc.. continue to mouth off and act like children.
geoff says:
They deserve some shit. IdrA woulda gotten D/Q'd by ESL, TSL etc.. but because I am who I am he didn't. That isn't "fair" or "professional" but then again.. this entire tourney hasn't been.. invite isn't "fair" nor is a mappool selected by me etc etc.
geoff says:
We can go through countless aspects and find flaws. At the end of the day a jerk got treated poorly.. I can rest my hat on that this once.
Blake says:
lol
Blake says:
thats fair
We discussed it.. would rather not rewrite my response.
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Calgary25967 Posts
On August 09 2009 15:01 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:
Some SC2GG stuff.
Remember when you scouted a proxy fact and then died to 1 vulture? LOL
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damn, bratok didnt make it D:
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How did this transform into SC2GG? I was just stating that Idra was OBVIOUSLY joking and that you are all over-reacting. Let's all just kiss and make up.
To Chill:
+ Show Spoiler +Remember when Machine beat you with his Terran? Like 3 times? That was pretty lol too. On his stream no less. Good times. Good times. It's too bad his Terran is only like C+ he might actually be decent with it. But yeah. I lose alot. It's because I'm bad at StarCraft but at least I don't pretend I'm good at it.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
You are both terrible at starcraft and unqualified to cast it - WHAT YOU GONNA DO KIDS? HUHH?
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Calgary25967 Posts
Move to Korea to escape my problems?
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AWW SHIT. But enough. Let's get back on topic before I get banned for being off topic.
What's done is done. Upon seeing the map was the wrong map in that one situation, Idra should have asked for a remake on the correct map. Didn't happen for some reason but I wasn't there so I can't judge. In the case of the laggy game. I fully believe that Incontrol would have left the game in due course. Sometimes with a stream the beginning is alittle laggy but usually levels out later but if that wouldn't have been the case, I know he would have left. Both people lost their tempers and shit happened.
Everybody has 20/20 hindsight but the best thing to do is just accept it happened. Talk about it, find a common ground and hopefully work it out and move on. If not. You should all move on to more productive things like watching porn or something.
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Sweden33719 Posts
fight... Fight... FIGHT! FIGHT!!
(stealing this from archerofaiur)
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Remember when you scouted a proxy fact and then died to 1 vulture? LOL
Remember in theoretical physics when applications to renormalization groups exploded due to the canonization of the Standard Model?
More about renormalization groups here
On topic, sportsmanship and game play are so intertwined that they effect the spectator’s enjoyment of the tournament itself in my opinion. In other words a players behavior before, during, and after a game can dictate the level of enjoyment all parties (including spectators) derive from the tournament itself. Incontrol is obviously concerned about the quality of his tournament. He is also making a serious effort to make as many of the games available to spectators as possible. Therefore he must be concerned about the behavior of the players as well as the game play itself.
I am extremely impressed with Incontrol's decision making in this tournament, particularly his balance between quality of play and player behavior. It really shows a high level of maturity in my opinion.
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When you run a tournament and its your money and time invested in it, then you usually could expect some level of respect. In this you are the alpha male. Its your own goodwill if you want to provide a high quality environment of games at any cause but not obligate and that doesnt turn you into a servant of the players.
If you talk big-headed to an admin then you can't rely on your own idea of the utopia of good and objective admins that still react accordingly in your mind. Even if you got a legitimate point of criticism learn to express yourself while still remaining some level of respect without insulting and beeing cocky.
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On August 09 2009 16:43 groro wrote:
When you run a tournament and its your money and time invested in it, then you usually could expect some level of respect. In this you are the alpha male. Its your own goodwill if you want to provide a high quality environment of games at any cause but not obligate and that doesnt turn you into a servant of the players.
If you talk big-headed to an admin then you can't rely on your own idea of the utopia of good and objective admins that still react accordingly in your mind. Even if you got a legitimate point of criticism learn to express yourself while still remaining some level of respect without insulting and beeing cocky.
Sure IdrA is bm 99% of the time but I think his original request of 'k get out' wasn't something that Incontrol should have gotten uppity about. It was hardly rude at all especially given the fact that they had worked out that he would leave if he was lagging. And considering that this was a semi-final game, the tournament seems tainted to me now.
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Inc that was out of line, so what if your the admin, if your lagging just leave man
and in the middle of the game aswell
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Feel sorry for Idra in this situation. Anyway, hope for more epic, outrageous, S-class BM in the future. Regarding "maturity" of Incontrol's decision -- how the hell not keeping promise is mature? Warning to Idra, even banning him right away are all ok (indeed, it's a private tournament), but not leaving the game is childish.
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On August 09 2009 17:19 Mazer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2009 16:43 groro wrote:
When you run a tournament and its your money and time invested in it, then you usually could expect some level of respect. In this you are the alpha male. Its your own goodwill if you want to provide a high quality environment of games at any cause but not obligate and that doesnt turn you into a servant of the players.
If you talk big-headed to an admin then you can't rely on your own idea of the utopia of good and objective admins that still react accordingly in your mind. Even if you got a legitimate point of criticism learn to express yourself while still remaining some level of respect without insulting and beeing cocky. Sure IdrA is bm 99% of the time but I think his original request of 'k get out' wasn't something that Incontrol should have gotten uppity about. It was hardly rude at all especially given the fact that they had worked out that he would leave if he was lagging. And considering that this was a semi-final game, the tournament seems tainted to me now.
But it was:
Idra: "K get out"
Inc doing some commentaries and talking "save rep after you win dinot" "gl" which obviously meant that he was going to leave but then idra behaves like little child that cant leave conversation just to make everyone happy but has to have his final flaming word and goes "if you werent terrible admin bla bla bla" which is "something Incontrol should have gotten uppity about" and it WAS rude. I'm quite sure most of you can recall similar situations from your life (most of the time w/ your parents) when you couldnt shut up even though conversation was over - yes it was called Adolescence and happened while you were young and stupid 12-14 year old teenager.
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White-Ra FTW
Thanks Plexa, it's very great news.
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On August 09 2009 17:39 Kaniol wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2009 17:19 Mazer wrote:On August 09 2009 16:43 groro wrote:
When you run a tournament and its your money and time invested in it, then you usually could expect some level of respect. In this you are the alpha male. Its your own goodwill if you want to provide a high quality environment of games at any cause but not obligate and that doesnt turn you into a servant of the players.
If you talk big-headed to an admin then you can't rely on your own idea of the utopia of good and objective admins that still react accordingly in your mind. Even if you got a legitimate point of criticism learn to express yourself while still remaining some level of respect without insulting and beeing cocky. Sure IdrA is bm 99% of the time but I think his original request of 'k get out' wasn't something that Incontrol should have gotten uppity about. It was hardly rude at all especially given the fact that they had worked out that he would leave if he was lagging. And considering that this was a semi-final game, the tournament seems tainted to me now. But it was: Idra: "K get out" Inc doing some commentaries and talking "save rep after you win dinot" "gl" which obviously meant that he was going to leave but then idra behaves like little child that cant leave conversation just to make everyone happy but has to have his final flaming word and goes "if you werent terrible admin bla bla bla" which is "something Incontrol should have gotten uppity about" and it WAS rude. I'm quite sure most of you can recall similar situations from your life (most of the time w/ your parents) when you couldnt shut up even though conversation was over - yes it was called Adolescence and happened while you were young and stupid 12-14 year old teenager.
Incontrol didn't say 'save rep after you win dinot' for a good 30-40 seconds after idra asked him to leave. And Idra's first somewhat dickhead comment came at pretty much the exact same time Incontrol said that line (first time it sounded like he was actually gonna leave) so you can't really fault Idra for that. At that point, Inc should have been long gone. After that Incontrol really didn't show any class in sticking around like he did.
You're also ignoring the fact that Incontrol started most of the shit with 'greg pretend I have a huge/ego pride' which was totally uncalled for given that Incontrol had agreed to leave if he was causing any lag prior to the game. I honestly hope no one was expecting Idra to say 'pretty please leave the game' in that situation.
It just seems as though Incontrol wanted a confrontation with Idra and he did it in a pretty piss-poor manner. I'm not excusing IdrA for being a dick in other games here by any means, it's just he did get shafted hard here.
And as far as the games go, Idra really needs to learn how to play non-standard opponents. 3 all-in ling defeats is pretty harsh (granted the game on Tau shouldn't be taken seriously).
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Regarding "maturity" of Incontrol's decision -- how the hell not keeping promise is mature? Warning to Idra, even banning him right away are all ok (indeed, it's a private tournament), but not leaving the game is childish.
First of all I found his overall behavior and decision making in this tournament mature, not just in this instance. Secondly I found this reaction to be extremely mild in comparison to other admins and individuals in positions of power in similar situations.
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haha Idra lost!! somehow that just makes me feel good^^
Edit: From the comments so far its my impression that Inc is the "money man" as well as the "owner" of the tour. In that case, what idra did is like bad mouthing his boss in front of everybody at work. What im saying is that he would have been fired on the spot if this was in a work related situation. My point being that u dont fuck with the guy who signs ur paycheck.
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Drama 
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On August 09 2009 18:00 Diggity wrote:Show nested quote +Regarding "maturity" of Incontrol's decision -- how the hell not keeping promise is mature? Warning to Idra, even banning him right away are all ok (indeed, it's a private tournament), but not leaving the game is childish. First of all I found his overall behavior and decision making in this tournament mature, not just in this instance. Secondly I found this reaction to be extremely mild in comparison to other admins and individuals in positions of power in similar situations.
Were you on Lz gamer's stream? I find the fact that a tourney admin is chuckling in advance because of the drama he knows is gonna ensue if they taunt him a bit after he loses is not "extremely mature" (or a more suitable word: "professional").
Note that I'm only talking about yesterday's issue. Apart from that this seems to be a well-run tourney, overall behavior professional and an interesting one as well, so props for that to Incontrol.
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I think this all happened on the internet... the way things tend to happen on the internet :D I love it.
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Hm, I agree with Mazer here. If you know someone's got a very bad temper, considering the fact that he's pressured (involved in a game), disregard him wanting you to leave (doesn't matter if he says "pretty please" or "get out", the latter is more direct, but not bm considering he's got other things to do than type out pleas) - when you're clearly affecting the game both by lag and chat... that's pretty poor judgment. If you don't want bm, make it mandatory to save reps, see to it that bm is being punished according to rules set *before* the tourney starts and every player has agreed to the rules, and you can judge afterwards.
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You know idrA should have just paused and said "it's lagging can we not have obs please, it's really annoying", instead of the I-am-in-CJ-with-saviOr-so-cool-am-i attitude comment of "k get out".
Incontrol could have then told him that it's important to have stream and would have discussed this better. Really so simple. But it begins with idrA, saying lag is messing up your manners and attitude and therefore the admin should get out etc is not the way a professional player is to conduct himself.
I think both idra and inc went overboard a bit, but hey WHITE-RA mah man's in the finals woohoo. Great games so far, I really enjoyed even the JF vs Inc series, great action. Thanks for the great tourney so far.
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On August 09 2009 14:23 Chill wrote:
Yes, in fact I think that is incredibly unfair. As a tournament organizer, your role is to be a seemless administrator who ensures the results are as they should be. To take any action to affect the results (be it lag, or even sending him on tilt) like this is ridiculous. Further, the fact that you see nothing wrong with it is a little more worrisome. Even further, I can't believe that everyone feels that IdrA deserved this based on the chat logs.
What I am taking from this is, if someone starts throwing tantrums and BMing the tournament admins, just DQ them right there. (That's the very _least_ that would be done in a non-e-sport venue. If you were really bad, or did it more than once, you'd probably be banned from future tournaments. In any of the martial arts your sensei would make sure you got the stuffing kicked out of you, too.)
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Netherlands13554 Posts
lol I still don´t get why Idra is still allowed in tournaments, let alone INVITE tournaments hahaha
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"Plexa and I are God.."
From the Highlander rules.
As Inc said, this is his tournament. And he runs it his own way. He never said that it would be run in the most professional manner possible, he even said he was an amatuer tournament organiser.
The way I see it this tournament is run on the same foundations as this site: It's my site/tournament, you are my guest. You follow my word. Therefore I find it funny TL.net admins critisising Inc for this.
Is it fair? No. Is it anything wrong with it? No, not if you don't go out and try to give the impression of anything else. Every player who signed up knew this beforehand, and if they didn't it's their fault for not informing themselves.
And if you don't act like ass, you won't get treated like one. If Idra had just acted decently it would have been no problem. Perhaps you think that Inc acted out of proportion against Idra or something. Look at it this way instead: How much effort would it take from Idra's side to just act decently or at the very least just shut up? He's choosing to behave like an ass, and there is nothing in the world that is forcing him to.
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On August 09 2009 22:01 expostfacto wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2009 14:23 Chill wrote:
Yes, in fact I think that is incredibly unfair. As a tournament organizer, your role is to be a seemless administrator who ensures the results are as they should be. To take any action to affect the results (be it lag, or even sending him on tilt) like this is ridiculous. Further, the fact that you see nothing wrong with it is a little more worrisome. Even further, I can't believe that everyone feels that IdrA deserved this based on the chat logs. What I am taking from this is, if someone starts throwing tantrums and BMing the tournament admins, just DQ them right there. (That's the very _least_ that would be done in a non-e-sport venue. If you were really bad, or did it more than once, you'd probably be banned from future tournaments. In any of the martial arts your sensei would make sure you got the stuffing kicked out of you, too.)
So say in soccer if the ref goes and picks up the ball and the players complain that he interfered then they should be kicked out?
its perfectly clear that if inc was interfering with the games he should have left and that he is in the wrong here
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On August 09 2009 22:27 Twisted wrote:
lol I still don´t get why Idra is still allowed in tournaments, let alone INVITE tournaments hahaha
nvm
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On August 09 2009 11:27 Sadistx wrote:Good to know the admin is a power tripper douche that cares more about his ego than the quality of games. I guess Greg was right when he called you terrible. If I'm missing the context with this, please enlighten me, but that's how you come off with these segments and your decision. lol at using the money as pulling rank, afaik it's not even your money but some benefactor's.
Wow thats fucking weak. Although pretty typical behavior for the "elite" segment of the tl community imo.
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if inc is so dedicated to this tournament, why does he have to be a pain and proves his point? we all know idra is bm, no news there. and if inc had left right away, even after idra's (bm) comment, we all would know that he's more mature.
Edit: Oh and, 'save rep after you win dinot,' is just as bm. why should idra have to play with the tournament admin bm'ing him?
it's just a case of who is less immature. not who is more mature, which is sad.
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horror beat ret that's awesome. GJ Horror! :D
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Sweden33719 Posts
On August 09 2009 20:12 Jumperer wrote:
I agreed with incontrol all the way. This isn't about being a good tournament organizer, it's about teaching someone to be respectful to others. Just because you go to korean doesn't give you a right to treat everyone like a piece of shit. Just because you are the best player doesn't mean you can be BM and yell at others. However, I don't think Idra was trying to be BM on purpose when he told inc to "get out." I believe that Idra has poor social skill and that he would say "get out" regardless of whoever the obs was, instead of saying something like "leave." It's just Idra style man.
However, Idra is probably being forced to play SC 50 hours a day and he uncannily has no time to learn social etiquette.
Still, it was good to see someone else beside me fighting back against the top-american-player BM fever. Iloveoov said, "If one stays at the top position for a long time, they lose their manners." He couldn't be more right.
The iloveoov quote is hilarious considering that during his reign of terror on the gamei server before turning pro, he was notoriously BM - trashtalking pros, telling them what they did wrong in their TV games etc -.-
Or so the story goes (or the story that was related to me anyhow).
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GOGOGOGO DinOt!!!!!
and Idra?.... well i hate this guy. Its the personification of all the worst things about sc players. Its a shame for all the foreign scene of sc:bw... Don´t feed the Troll!! Let Idra starving to death!!
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On August 10 2009 00:09 FrozenArbiter wrote:
The iloveoov quote is hilarious considering that during his reign of terror on the gamei server before turning pro, he was notoriously BM - trashtalking pros, telling them what they did wrong in their TV games etc -.-
Never took iloveoov to be a bad mannered person haha. I thought someone foreign would fit that role. Do you know of any other players who were bad mannered as well (korean mainly)?
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On August 10 2009 00:42 Kage wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2009 00:09 FrozenArbiter wrote:
The iloveoov quote is hilarious considering that during his reign of terror on the gamei server before turning pro, he was notoriously BM - trashtalking pros, telling them what they did wrong in their TV games etc -.-
Never took iloveoov to be a bad mannered person haha. I thought someone foreign would fit that role. Do you know of any other players who were bad mannered as well (korean mainly)?
Stork
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On August 09 2009 22:49 Lord_of_Chaos wrote:
"Plexa and I are God.."
From the Highlander rules.
As Inc said, this is his tournament. And he runs it his own way. He never said that it would be run in the most professional manner possible, he even said he was an amatuer tournament organiser.
The way I see it this tournament is run on the same foundations as this site: It's my site/tournament, you are my guest. You follow my word. Therefore I find it funny TL.net admins critisising Inc for this.
Is it fair? No. Is it anything wrong with it? No, not if you don't go out and try to give the impression of anything else. Every player who signed up knew this beforehand, and if they didn't it's their fault for not informing themselves.
And if you don't act like ass, you won't get treated like one. If Idra had just acted decently it would have been no problem. Perhaps you think that Inc acted out of proportion against Idra or something. Look at it this way instead: How much effort would it take from Idra's side to just act decently or at the very least just shut up? He's choosing to behave like an ass, and there is nothing in the world that is forcing him to.
quoting this because it is exactly my point,
We've established I could have put on my silk gloves and walked on eggshells with IdrA.. this post and ALL my posts should indicate that was never going to be the case, from the very beginning.
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I agree with INC's reasoning, respect the admins and organizers please they put a lot of time into it and it's bullshit when players think that they can disrespect the admins and then get away with it. Maybe the decision to stay for the first minute wasn't the best one, I'd have probably threatened with a DQ from the tournament if they don't manner up.
and
On August 09 2009 22:27 Twisted wrote:
lol I still don´t get why Idra is still allowed in tournaments, let alone INVITE tournaments hahaha
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They were both idiots in this situation. Idra was using his same style of comments by requesting inc to leave, whats new. I had a lot of respect for you before this, inc. You acted worse than Idra does. But what surprises me is that the managers over at CJ don't ever react to the way Idra represents their team. I am shocked he hasn't been given the boot for this behavior. I don't think he started this argument, but the last comment is just pathetic...
Incontrol, wtf? Who cares if it is "your" tournament. Why use that fallback to explain yourself acting liking a child on a power trip? I love your "don't do a power struggle" when you were the one clearly on the power trip in that log. He simply asked you to leave over and over again when you kept running YOUR mouth.
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On August 10 2009 03:03 jeremycafe wrote:
They were both idiots in this situation. Idra was using his same style of comments by requesting inc to leave, whats new. I had a lot of respect for you before this, inc. You acted worse than Idra does. But what surprises me is that the managers over at CJ don't ever react to the way Idra represents their team. I am shocked he hasn't been given the boot for this behavior. I don't think he started this argument, but the last comment is just pathetic...
Incontrol, wtf? Who cares if it is "your" tournament. Why use that fallback to explain yourself acting liking a child on a power trip? I love your "don't do a power struggle" when you were the one clearly on the power trip in that log. He simply asked you to leave over and over again when you kept running YOUR mouth.
kind of agree, Idra acted in his usual manner, inc not only went down to his level, but much lower.admins shouldn't behave like this, and say whatever you want, but in this situation, Idra isn't the one to blame imo.
but then theres "its his tourney and rules" argument, which is strong, but i see it as ~either lick up to inc and be treated nice, or if you dont like/have grudge against him, add "please mr admin" at the end of every request and pray that he wont find it ironical.
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Braavos36372 Posts
Tournament organizers should not power trip over whiny BW players or BM chat. It comes with the territory, did you really expect someone like Idra to bow down to you? If you want the game to count because it was played, fine. But posting something like "we would've replayed had you not been a dick" is completely unprofessional and shouldn't happen in a serious tournament. I don't care if its your tournament or your money or how much effort you put into it, there should be standards when it comes to basically deciding who advances to the finals. The determining factor should be the play, not the manner of the players. I mean, we could see this moment coming from a mile away -- "k get out" and "you are a terrible admin" is inevitably going to come, why not just ban Idra from the tournament in the beginning? Because this confrontation was basically guaranteed to happen.
On August 09 2009 16:43 Diggity wrote:
I am extremely impressed with Incontrol's decision making in this tournament, particularly his balance between quality of play and player behavior. It really shows a high level of maturity in my opinion.
I don't think anyone is saying this is the right decision by Incontrol 100%. It's clear both parties obviously acted poorly. A lot of people are arguing that Inc was justified in allowing the game to count and basically giving Idra a loss based on manner, but I don't think anyone is saying they're impressed with how Inc handled the situation. Nobody here is completely in the right.
On August 09 2009 18:00 Diggity wrote:
First of all I found his overall behavior and decision making in this tournament mature, not just in this instance. Secondly I found this reaction to be extremely mild in comparison to other admins and individuals in positions of power in similar situations.
Just because so many Brood War tournaments have ridiculously unreasonable and power-trippy admins doesn't justify anything. Just because some ICCup guys or WC8 would flip out and burn down a house if Idra said this to them doesn't mean the decision was right. We really should have higher standards when it comes to admin behavior.
The whole reaction about "oh he disrespected me with the K GET OUT" is really unnecessary. Would it have been so hard to just leave the game, let them play, and warn Idra afterwards? During TSL we could have taken many statements from players with similar connotation and blew up at them -- all of which we would have regretted later. The key here is that looking back on a serious tournament, you don't want stuff like this to be the headline and to influence the tournament -- which is exactly what is happening here. I don't see how that's impressive or admirable at all.
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On August 10 2009 03:56 Itachii wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2009 03:03 jeremycafe wrote:
They were both idiots in this situation. Idra was using his same style of comments by requesting inc to leave, whats new. I had a lot of respect for you before this, inc. You acted worse than Idra does. But what surprises me is that the managers over at CJ don't ever react to the way Idra represents their team. I am shocked he hasn't been given the boot for this behavior. I don't think he started this argument, but the last comment is just pathetic...
Incontrol, wtf? Who cares if it is "your" tournament. Why use that fallback to explain yourself acting liking a child on a power trip? I love your "don't do a power struggle" when you were the one clearly on the power trip in that log. He simply asked you to leave over and over again when you kept running YOUR mouth. kind of agree, Idra acted in his usual manner, inc not only went down to his level, but much lower.admins shouldn't behave like this, and say whatever you want, but in this situation, Idra isn't the one to blame imo. but then theres "its his tourney and rules" argument, which is strong, but i see it as ~either lick up to inc and be treated nice, or if you dont like/have grudge against him, add "please mr admin" at the end of every request and pray that he wont find it ironical.
Nice try with those exaggerations. Idra is probably the biggest douchebag in korea right now. If his "usual manner" is being a giant cockgobbler then maybe he should change his "usual manner".
Now this is a finals worth watching.
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I'm glade I did not watch this tournament. It's obviously not too serious. 2 egos the size of the empire state building in 1 game now that is priceless.
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On August 10 2009 04:26 -StrifeX- wrote:
I'm glade I did not watch this tournament. It's obviously not too serious. 2 egos the size of the empire state building in 1 game now that is priceless.
Don't be blinded by the drama, there were some nice games in the tourney as well. And, for the most part, impeccable manner. Props to Dinot for instance for the Desti game conversation :-)
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On August 09 2009 11:27 Sadistx wrote:Good to know the admin is a power tripper douche that cares more about his ego than the quality of games. I guess Greg was right when he called you terrible. If I'm missing the context with this, please enlighten me, but that's how you come off with these segments and your decision. lol at using the money as pulling rank, afaik it's not even your money but some benefactor's.
Wow that is appalling behavior. I always thought Incontrol was a bit of an asshole, this just proves it.
The guy is playing a game and you get pissy about how he says leave?!
Get the fuck over yourself.
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We need to replay that game immediately for this tournament to retain any form of respect.
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I have no respect for Idra whatsoever. I agree with hotbid in the sense that both parties acted unprofessionally, but at the same time it was incontrol's tournament. He didn't run it as professionally as he could have but it's still HIS TOURNAMENT.
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On August 10 2009 04:01 psion0011 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2009 03:56 Itachii wrote:On August 10 2009 03:03 jeremycafe wrote:
They were both idiots in this situation. Idra was using his same style of comments by requesting inc to leave, whats new. I had a lot of respect for you before this, inc. You acted worse than Idra does. But what surprises me is that the managers over at CJ don't ever react to the way Idra represents their team. I am shocked he hasn't been given the boot for this behavior. I don't think he started this argument, but the last comment is just pathetic...
Incontrol, wtf? Who cares if it is "your" tournament. Why use that fallback to explain yourself acting liking a child on a power trip? I love your "don't do a power struggle" when you were the one clearly on the power trip in that log. He simply asked you to leave over and over again when you kept running YOUR mouth. kind of agree, Idra acted in his usual manner, inc not only went down to his level, but much lower.admins shouldn't behave like this, and say whatever you want, but in this situation, Idra isn't the one to blame imo. but then theres "its his tourney and rules" argument, which is strong, but i see it as ~either lick up to inc and be treated nice, or if you dont like/have grudge against him, add "please mr admin" at the end of every request and pray that he wont find it ironical. Nice try with those exaggerations. Idra is probably the biggest douchebag in korea right now. If his "usual manner" is being a giant cockgobbler then maybe he should change his "usual manner". Now this is a finals worth watching.
i think you missed my point, or just wanted to quote someone and type "idra,douchebag" in the same sentence.
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aw man the swedish guys got bashed :,(
GOGO NAU,HAYDER & ENVID! :,D
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United States42106 Posts
In any other game if you speak to the ref like that you autolose. Letting Greg continue the game was generous.
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On August 10 2009 05:43 Itachii wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2009 04:01 psion0011 wrote:On August 10 2009 03:56 Itachii wrote:On August 10 2009 03:03 jeremycafe wrote:
They were both idiots in this situation. Idra was using his same style of comments by requesting inc to leave, whats new. I had a lot of respect for you before this, inc. You acted worse than Idra does. But what surprises me is that the managers over at CJ don't ever react to the way Idra represents their team. I am shocked he hasn't been given the boot for this behavior. I don't think he started this argument, but the last comment is just pathetic...
Incontrol, wtf? Who cares if it is "your" tournament. Why use that fallback to explain yourself acting liking a child on a power trip? I love your "don't do a power struggle" when you were the one clearly on the power trip in that log. He simply asked you to leave over and over again when you kept running YOUR mouth. kind of agree, Idra acted in his usual manner, inc not only went down to his level, but much lower.admins shouldn't behave like this, and say whatever you want, but in this situation, Idra isn't the one to blame imo. but then theres "its his tourney and rules" argument, which is strong, but i see it as ~either lick up to inc and be treated nice, or if you dont like/have grudge against him, add "please mr admin" at the end of every request and pray that he wont find it ironical. Nice try with those exaggerations. Idra is probably the biggest douchebag in korea right now. If his "usual manner" is being a giant cockgobbler then maybe he should change his "usual manner". Now this is a finals worth watching. i think you missed my point, or just wanted to quote someone and type "idra,douchebag" in the same sentence.
he is right that you are exaggerating. you can show decent behaviour and be friendly MOST of the time without beeing an asslicker and i think thats the main problem thats not ONLY about this talking in the screenshot. its prolly because alot of tension was involved and there it just came to the surface from incontrols side.
and when you have most of the time acceptable behaviour then you got less problems. but when you are often bm people ofc will associate that with you further. especially in the internet. except you are some robot who goes by plain word input and gets reset every time after it. but yeah applied to this screenshot i agree that it would have been better when he left. anyways i hope besides this tournament they can clear things up and it will calm down again.
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On August 10 2009 06:31 Kwark wrote:
In any other game if you speak to the ref like that you autolose. Letting Greg continue the game was generous.
Good joke
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On August 10 2009 06:39 Klive5ive wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2009 06:31 Kwark wrote:
In any other game if you speak to the ref like that you autolose. Letting Greg continue the game was generous. Good joke
maybe in british criquet, or i seriously hope he was joking.
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+ Show Spoiler +idra deserved to loose.. 3 games no GG's .. im happy dinot beat him out with 3 cheeses that a dplayer coulda blockd..
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United States42106 Posts
On August 10 2009 06:39 Klive5ive wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2009 06:31 Kwark wrote:
In any other game if you speak to the ref like that you autolose. Letting Greg continue the game was generous. Good joke
You see it in Rugby for example. There will be some refs who just don't take shit from players and the players in turn will address them politely and not challenge decisions. And every now and then an idiot will try and it and ref will send him off.
End of the day the rules are known, either you stick to them or you suffer. Whining about the morality of the rules doesn't change shit when you don't have any power. The tournament rules stated inc can do what he likes, idra knows inc well enough to know not to push his buttons.
This was very predictable and very avoidable. Just as the players know not to fuck with a ref who's up himself idra should have known better. End of the day he's the one who suffers here, not inc. It's not a battle he can win and it costs him nothing to not try fighting it.
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Thanks for the replays Inc
+ Show Spoiler +Btw, is it just me or is Tarson vs White-ra game 2 corrupted? BW twice closed for me at a certain point in that game.
Edit: as to the "idrama," I would side with Incontrol. I'm not saying he has no fault at all. It's just unlike Idra, Incontrol is in a position to do whatever the fuck he wants. He is the head admin of the tourney so regardless of whether he acts immature or not, he should be respected. Saying "k get out" is a sign of disrespect imo and Incontrol had a right to be angry. As a head admin he could have kept his cool and dealt with the manner in a more formal manner but then again: his tourney, his rules. Also like he said, he could've done a lot worse.
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Favorite series by far is the DinOt/idra series. Cant get enough of Crybaby "Greg" Idra
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The only time idra wrote 'gg' was when he called Incontrol a faggot.
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On August 10 2009 08:14 DIMJkE wrote:
The only time idra wrote 'gg' was when he called Incontrol a faggot.
ROFL
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Shit I never understand from this kind of E-drama is how the hell can't you guys not get along in the first place lol. There is only so many high level non korean players. Don't you guys play with each other alot? Not to mention meeting each other at LANs. I don't know seems like if its just Idra being that huge of a dick all the time. Would it be that hard to ostracized him from the community? He could go play with koreans and then he could say whatever the hell he wants to them because they won't understand him anyway. If none of you guys play/invite him to stuff like this he can't bm anyone.
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Who the hell would want to play a game resided over by some asshole that is woefully biased against you.
incontrol's tirade was seriously unnecessary.
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I want white-ra to win... The Bo7 should be very interesting, bring in at least 1 amazing game!
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On August 10 2009 08:52 InToTheWannaB wrote:
Shit I never understand from this kind of E-drama is how the hell can't you guys not get along in the first place lol. There is only so many high level non korean players. Don't you guys play with each other alot? Not to mention meeting each other at LANs. I don't know seems like if its just Idra being that huge of a dick all the time. Would it be that hard to ostracized him from the community? He could go play with koreans and then he could say whatever the hell he wants to them because they won't understand him anyway. If none of you guys play/invite him to stuff like this he can't bm anyone.
Look at the opening chat from White-ra vs JF Game 1
JF: good luck ra
White-ra: thx u2
I dont know anyone personally but seems like everyone is friendly except idra.
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Hey guys, make love, not warcraft.
Incontrol didn't exactly start this... Most of us would have acted the same if some high n mighty pro started abusing any ref. I don't think this is out of the norm, you would expect nearly all tournament refs to act the same. This by no means makes it right, but it does add a level of hypocrisy if we criticize what I think most of us would do if we were in his situation.
Personally I think Idra shouldn't be allowed back in the game, since he started it. But should be given the choice of a grudge match against anyone in the tournament (lol refs included). If this is about his burst ego, then fine, let him feel 100ft tall. But he should still be out of the torny.
edit: Abc. Its easy as 123. Simple as doh ray meh. Abc, 123, doh ray meh baby you n meee yeah!
[you ppl care about your 10000th posts... but we hundred count posters have more humble ambitions]
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Valhalla18444 Posts
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On August 10 2009 08:14 DIMJkE wrote:
The only time idra wrote 'gg' was when he called Incontrol a faggot.
lol
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I still don't see the bm in "k get out". Head ref/admin or what that doesn't sound at all disrespectful to me. Sure please could have been thrown in but incontrol just seems to try to bait idra here.
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On August 10 2009 10:32 michael. wrote:
I still don't see the bm in "k get out". Head ref/admin or what that doesn't sound at all disrespectful to me. Sure please could have been thrown in but incontrol just seems to try to bait idra here.
I think Inc was already fucked up before the tau cross game since idra whined that it was lagging and shit due to livestreams. That's why Inc just when
"K, I had enough of this nerdling!" and exploded. (actually, he didn't exploded to a full BM but just made some sarcastic comments imo)
I guess that's why Kespa decided to ban chatting in-game
on a serious note: why not try warning them about bad behavior Inc?
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On August 10 2009 06:50 Itachii wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2009 06:39 Klive5ive wrote:On August 10 2009 06:31 Kwark wrote:
In any other game if you speak to the ref like that you autolose. Letting Greg continue the game was generous. Good joke maybe in british criquet, or i seriously hope he was joking.
I'm not sure about Polish sports(assuming you're from there), but what Kwark says applies to American sports as well. Cuss out the ref and you get thrown out of the game.
It makes no sense otherwise. If players do not need to show respect for the referees, then rules will never be followed.
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MURICA15980 Posts
Why are there pages and pages discussing this?
Idra lost. If you look at the replays, he lost. Lag or not, he just lost. So Inc and Idra BMed each other... this would only continue to be an issue if Idra won and they had to deal with each other in this context for one more match, but Idra lost.
So that's that, right?
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
On August 10 2009 12:32 Klogon wrote:
Why are there pages and pages discussing this?
Idra lost. If you look at the replays, he lost. Lag or not, he just lost. So Inc and Idra BMed each other... this would only continue to be an issue if Idra won and they had to deal with each other in this context for one more match, but Idra lost.
So that's that, right?
It's complicated by the Tau Cross thing and that (in my opinion) idra's scout would have stayed alive longer if incontrol hadn't been reacting instead of leaving. If Idra's scout had stayed alive Dinot wouldn't have gotten the 1 million zerglings that he did.
In my opinion the game shouldn't have counted but on the other hand Idra can't keep doing this every time he loses a game. And at any rate, it's not my tournament, it's not my decision.
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Katowice25012 Posts
Thanks for running this tournament Inc, these replays are very entertaining.
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On August 10 2009 12:32 Klogon wrote:
Why are there pages and pages discussing this?
Idra lost. If you look at the replays, he lost. Lag or not, he just lost. So Inc and Idra BMed each other... this would only continue to be an issue if Idra won and they had to deal with each other in this context for one more match, but Idra lost.
So that's that, right?
because it's an issue with the administration? O__O;;
people are still talking about Tom Donaghey... he just bet on NBA games, he may or may not have actually rigged the outcomes.. so why do we talk about it?
do you seriously have to ask that question ;p
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Braavos36372 Posts
On August 10 2009 12:32 Klogon wrote:
Why are there pages and pages discussing this?
Idra lost. If you look at the replays, he lost. Lag or not, he just lost. So Inc and Idra BMed each other... this would only continue to be an issue if Idra won and they had to deal with each other in this context for one more match, but Idra lost.
So that's that, right?
They're talking about it because one of the games could/should be replayed because it was played on a map that isn't in the map pool.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
No we aren't talking about that rofl
Nobody has said that until you just did.
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Uh, I know it's kinda off topic but what does BM mean ?
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Baltimore, USA22251 Posts
On August 10 2009 17:05 Iplaythings wrote:
Uh, I know it's kinda off topic but what does BM mean ?
In the midst of all the drama, that's the most precious comment I think I've seen... stay innocent my friend.
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"k, get out" is an insult? ... ...
The first few lines i would say Idra did nothing that was worth any further action (but i don't know what happened before that game). After that Idra quickly made sure that he deserved a penalty...
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On August 10 2009 18:26 Velr wrote:
"k, get out" is an insult? ... ...
The first few lines i would say Idra did nothing that was worth any further action (but i don't know what happened before that game). After that Idra quickly made sure that he deserved a penalty...
No, calling Incontrol a "terrible admin" was.
Incontrol already implied that he would leave by telling Dinot to save the rep. If Idra had not responded with the terrible admin comment, everything would have been golden. But since he did... Inc just pissed Idra off a bit further, which I think is totally fine. It was Idra's choice to participate in the tourney.
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totaly right decison from incontrol : )
no need to argue
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On August 10 2009 19:49 Hadrian wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2009 18:26 Velr wrote:
"k, get out" is an insult? ... ...
The first few lines i would say Idra did nothing that was worth any further action (but i don't know what happened before that game). After that Idra quickly made sure that he deserved a penalty... No, calling Incontrol a "terrible admin" was. Incontrol already implied that he would leave by telling Dinot to save the rep. If Idra had not responded with the terrible admin comment, everything would have been golden. But since he did... Inc just pissed Idra off a bit further, which I think is totally fine. It was Idra's choice to participate in the tourney.
actually he said 'dinot save reps when you win'
before i made any comment besides 'k get out'
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how could you guys take incontrol's side on this. you're the same people that hate Kespa for interfering play and handing out DQ for typing ww and ppp. and yet when incontrol disrupts play with his flamebait you guys defend him?
Yes, incontrol is running a great tourney. yes, Idra is a bad mannered player (person?). But these facts should be considered irrelevant to this situation, and when the incident is isolated as such it's clear Incontrol failed as an admin. What Idra said -- "k get out" -- is nothing beyond the realm of normalcy in American internet chat. To get pissed over that and imply that Idra's tone was not deferential enough is just stupid.
The tourney is great the prize is great the players are great and all tourneys have fail incidents whether korean american pro or amateur. but make no mistake, this is a fail incident.
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On August 10 2009 21:02 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2009 19:49 Hadrian wrote:On August 10 2009 18:26 Velr wrote:
"k, get out" is an insult? ... ...
The first few lines i would say Idra did nothing that was worth any further action (but i don't know what happened before that game). After that Idra quickly made sure that he deserved a penalty... No, calling Incontrol a "terrible admin" was. Incontrol already implied that he would leave by telling Dinot to save the rep. If Idra had not responded with the terrible admin comment, everything would have been golden. But since he did... Inc just pissed Idra off a bit further, which I think is totally fine. It was Idra's choice to participate in the tourney. actually he said 'dinot save reps when you win' before i made any comment besides 'k get out'
Exactly, IdrA was not in the wrong until Incontrol started crap in THAT chat log. Who knows what happened outside of the game before the match, but with this log alone, incontrol had to let his e-peen skills take over and make a completely inappropriate comment like that. That comment alone made him a terrible admin, just as IdrA stated.
Incontrol, man up and take responsibility. No one is asking for you to change the results, simply take responsibility and stop trying to make reasons for why you were not wrong with your behavior. You know you acted like an idiot in that game.
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d_so,
there is a difference between kespa run tournament and this tournament. Professionalism and outward imge. Inc stated right from the beginning that this was not a professional tournament, was not going to be run in a fair and professional way but it was gonna be run HIS way. It's pretty clear in the rules.
Kespa on the other hand does everything to act professional. Then it becomes unacceptable when they are not.
That's the difference. If you look at the rule set and compare GG.net and TL.net you will see the same difference. GG.net strives for fairness and professionalism in every aspect, TL.net says clearly "this is our site, we don't care about being fair because we OWN this place". Does that make TL.net a bad site or worse than GG.net? Not in any way. That's the same thing with highlander tournament, and other tournaments (such as kespa run stuff, wgtcl or whatever).
As long as you stay true to the ruleset or the impression you intentionally gave from the beginning, it's np. Every player knew before they signed up that this was Inc's tournament, and it was going to run his way. If this was something that was not okay with them, than that's all okay (and from a point fully understandable) for everyone. Just don't sign up then. If you do sign up however, make sure you treat inc well, be it fair or not, because you know as long as you play his tournament he is god. As stated in the rules.
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On August 10 2009 21:55 Lord_of_Chaos wrote:
d_so,
there is a difference between kespa run tournament and this tournament. Professionalism and outward imge. Inc stated right from the beginning that this was not a professional tournament, was not going to be run in a fair and professional way but it was gonna be run HIS way. It's pretty clear in the rules.
Kespa on the other hand does everything to act professional. Then it becomes unacceptable when they are not.
That's the difference. If you look at the rule set and compare GG.net and TL.net you will see the same difference. GG.net strives for fairness and professionalism in every aspect, TL.net says clearly "this is our site, we don't care about being fair because we OWN this place". Does that make TL.net a bad site or worse than GG.net? Not in any way. That's the same thing with highlander tournament, and other tournaments (such as kespa run stuff, wgtcl or whatever).
As long as you stay true to the ruleset or the impression you intentionally gave from the beginning, it's np. Every player knew before they signed up that this was Inc's tournament, and it was going to run his way. If this was something that was not okay with them, than that's all okay (and from a point fully understandable) for everyone. Just don't sign up then. If you do sign up however, make sure you treat inc well, be it fair or not, because you know as long as you play his tournament he is god. As stated in the rules.
look just cuz the rules allow for abuse doesn't mean doing so is right. (like baseball not restricting steroids back in the day.) what could idra have done differently to avoid this abuse? or more importantly, what did he do wrong?
he typed three words: k get out.
what should have done? been more respectful? Was what he said even disrespectful? Should he have typed in full sentences? should he have addressed him as sir?
it's all subjective yo and that's why this incident is fail on the part of incontrol. as much props/credit incontrol deserves for running the tourney and getting the prize money, when the games are being played the admin should do his best to be impartial, if not invisible, unless there is a clear breach of the rules.
as i said before all tourneys have such incidents of poor administrative decision-making and this tourney is not immune. this incident is one of those
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Germany / USA16648 Posts
Maybe inc expected to be addressed along the lines of "Dearest Geoff, could you please be so nice to leave the game now".
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What are we discussing here?
Wether incontrol or idra was BM? We all know both were BM and to what extend is a subjective matter so it wont be solved here anyway.
Wether incontrol as a Tournament Admin is in his right to be BM or interfer in the gameplay even if he stated that he might do that in the rules of the event? That matter should be discussed and solved among the resonsible parts, ie TL stall who sponsored the event and incontrol himself - which again makes the subject inappropropriate on this forum.
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next time any tournament involving idra should have a set of rules/punishments stated before the tourney regarding BM and such. Maybe a one warn and then ban system? Then warning idra would should have been enough to make him stfu. And banning him might finally teach him a lesson?
Ignorant, uneducated, taken out of circumstance, high and mighty, shielded by a user name opinion: Apologize and please disregard post if i got my facts completely wrong.
The "this is my amateur tourney i can do w/e the fuck i want" argument doesn't really float very well. I'm sure all players expect a certain level of fairness when they join any type of tournament. No matter how many caveats Inc places before his tournament, whether wants to or not, he still represents TL in public occasions, and TL will be in the mind of any who join. And the TL carries with it a certain level of quality.
Even with the TL commandments in place, any mods that make drastic decisions draw a lot of flack from the community. Despite what you might say and want, the relationship is not a one-way top-down situation. And in this case admin intervention to "punish" a specific player doesn't seem to be fair. Arguably inc would have done the exact same to any other player who BMed, but unless there are pre-written guidelines, theres no way to know for sure. And writing "the admins are Gods" is not really a good rule because it does not convey what behavior is expected from the players. Gods are worshiped, but they also get damned and have their books burnt by other people.
Idra doesn't need to be treated with fluffy mittens, he just needs to be treated with a fishing pole. Held off a couple of meters away with a long stick between and hung out to dry, and if it stinks too much, dropped without too much personal involvement. Admin-player relationship needs to be distant to remain objective and fair, and replacing the fishing rod with an e-penis doesnt work, even if your epeen is very long.
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On August 09 2009 16:43 Diggity wrote:Remember in theoretical physics when applications to renormalization groups exploded due to the canonization of the Standard Model? More about renormalization groups hereOn topic, sportsmanship and game play are so intertwined that they effect the spectator’s enjoyment of the tournament itself in my opinion. In other words a players behavior before, during, and after a game can dictate the level of enjoyment all parties (including spectators) derive from the tournament itself. Incontrol is obviously concerned about the quality of his tournament. He is also making a serious effort to make as many of the games available to spectators as possible. Therefore he must be concerned about the behavior of the players as well as the game play itself. I am extremely impressed with Incontrol's decision making in this tournament, particularly his balance between quality of play and player behavior. It really shows a high level of maturity in my opinion.
Totally agree with this.
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"I am extremely impressed with Incontrol's decision making in this tournament, particularly his balance between quality of play and player behavior. It really shows a high level of maturity in my opinion."
Really?
"save rep after you win dinot" is mature to say as an admin observing a game at the start?
"don't do a power struggle with the guy who awards win and losses in a 1k$ tourney" is mature to say when he was in fact the one on the power trip?
hmm. I think I need to redefine my understanding of mature so I can feel the same way.
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To those of you who have been commenting with "why is this being discussed still"...here is why (at least why I get worked up on stuff like this).
If you look at my posting history, I have been on the IdrA rants as well. Why? Because they represent our country in the professional scene. We have a very small representation, and when the few who make and shape the image of our country act this way, its an embarrassment to all of us.
We are talking about two of the most common names in SC from the united states, can you imagine the reaction of any fan who might see that log overseas? It looks like a couple of middle schoolers going at it. Its sad, pathetic, and immature.
Why in the world any pro team would want to risk their image to bring some egotistical players who can't deal with being wrong or losing is beyond me.
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On August 11 2009 01:52 jeremycafe wrote:
To those of you who have been commenting with "why is this being discussed still"...here is why (at least why I get worked up on stuff like this).
If you look at my posting history, I have been on the IdrA rants as well. Why? Because they represent our country in the professional scene. We have a very small representation, and when the few who make and shape the image of our country act this way, its an embarrassment to all of us.
We are talking about two of the most common names in SC from the united states, can you imagine the reaction of any fan who might see that log overseas? It looks like a couple of middle schoolers going at it. Its sad, pathetic, and immature.
Why in the world any pro team would want to risk their image to bring some egotistical players who can't deal with being wrong or losing is beyond me. its a video game... online... if you base the image of a country off of the behaviors of gamers, you are doing something very wrong.
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"its a video game... online... if you base the image of a country off of the behaviors of gamers, you are doing something very wrong."
Are you really that stupid? It's about the reputation of our players within the gaming community. If you actually thought I was referring to the reputation of our country in general, you are an idiot.
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On August 10 2009 21:02 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2009 19:49 Hadrian wrote:On August 10 2009 18:26 Velr wrote:
"k, get out" is an insult? ... ...
The first few lines i would say Idra did nothing that was worth any further action (but i don't know what happened before that game). After that Idra quickly made sure that he deserved a penalty... No, calling Incontrol a "terrible admin" was. Incontrol already implied that he would leave by telling Dinot to save the rep. If Idra had not responded with the terrible admin comment, everything would have been golden. But since he did... Inc just pissed Idra off a bit further, which I think is totally fine. It was Idra's choice to participate in the tourney. actually he said 'dinot save reps when you win' before i made any comment besides 'k get out'
He might as well have said "fuck you, Idra, you piece of shit, I relish in your misery".
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On August 10 2009 19:49 Hadrian wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2009 18:26 Velr wrote:
"k, get out" is an insult? ... ...
The first few lines i would say Idra did nothing that was worth any further action (but i don't know what happened before that game). After that Idra quickly made sure that he deserved a penalty... No, calling Incontrol a "terrible admin" was. Incontrol already implied that he would leave by telling Dinot to save the rep. If Idra had not responded with the terrible admin comment, everything would have been golden. But since he did... Inc just pissed Idra off a bit further, which I think is totally fine. It was Idra's choice to participate in the tourney.
maybe read the chat log? Its chronological from top to bottom bud.
Idra says "k get out"
whether or not this is offensive is purely a subjective matter, but as we know 1) inc and idra had come to some sort of agreement that inc would leave should the game start to lag again 2) idra is apparently BM often, and thus has his reputation for it 3) both player and admin have big egos.
while not the most graceful way to ask, for whatever reason Inc *does* take offense at this, responding with :
"...let's pretend I have a huge ego..."
and then just before Idra's 2nd response:
"save rep after you win dinot"
all this happens *before* idra responds with the bad admin comment. Inc took two shots at idra first, and what can you expect to come next?
screw professionalism. if inc wanted to be God in *his* tourney then so be it, but damn man, don't attack somebody for a perceived slight. at worst his request was just poorly worded. I don't say rude because they both were at an understanding already about what *should* have happened. Really Inc is just out of line for going so far as to antogonize idra for such a comment( the first, not after "bad admin"), given the scenario already established. If he really had such a damn problem then he should have just called it there and been done with it.
I really don't see how anybody can defend inc's actions against idra with a simple excuse like he deserves it or something. When the guy who is running shit is out of line, the whole thing is just gonna go to shit from there, especially if other hotheaded people are involved.
and about this:On August 09 2009 14:15 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
listen people I make a big ass post in the other thread about this (tourney section) but it basically comes down to this: IdrA is an asshole about stuff and in other tourneys he'd get penalized/removed etc for talking to the admin that way. I "penalized" him by staying for another minute and telling him I wouldn't bow to his BS. If that seems unfair to you guys too damn bad.
He should have taken the hint and just DQed him to let him know he wasn't gonna put up with Idra's shit, but I do respect the fact that it is *HIS* tourney and *HIS* rules. I just think it could have been handled better.
in short:
I think Inc was wrong in how he handled it, but not wrong to do it period. Jerks will get treated in kind, and this should been somewhat expected considering the two's egos anyway.
EDIT: oh, and DRAMA!
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Haha you guys are pretending "k get out" is the first negative thing idra's ever said, but he's probably definitely been a tremendous asshole the entire tournament long so inc's decision is more than understandable.
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is it just me or is it acceptable to be very brief in game? You're playing a game, trying to micro your probe and workers and all. It makes sense to be brief.. What doesn't make sense would be to expect Idra to say 'Would you please leave then, as it is lagging?'.
'k get out' seems, to me, to be totally acceptable within the context. It's a bit short, blunt, but that's what you expect when people want to be playing the game and not dealing with admins?
Since that's the only thing Idra said before Inc started trolling, I'm on Idra's side. It's not bm to respond in kind...
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I know that I'm just a lowly player, but I don't see why incontrol needed to "penalize" idra for saying "k get out". That's pretty much as brief as you can be, and I'm sure idra had more important things to think about in the game than how politely should I word my request, i.e. how to regroup, how to handle his strategy.
Yeah, your tournament, I get it, nice trump card. My roof, my rules. By that logic just ban everyone from the tournament and declare yourself the winner. Of course you wouldn't do that, but it just shows how bad of an excuse it is to pour gas on idra's fire. Also, I support the opinion that "k get out" shouldn't send you into to a vindictive fit.
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On August 10 2009 00:18 No_eL wrote:
GOGOGOGO DinOt!!!!!
and Idra?.... well i hate this guy. Its the personification of all the worst things about sc players. Its a shame for all the foreign scene of sc:bw... Don´t feed the Troll!! Let Idra starving to death!!
 please go die.
but i wish i cld cheese like dinot=/
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this is really pathetic. Why are we bashing on Incontrol whos spending his time to run a fucking tournament people. Idra has a long history of being very proud and arrogant and thinks he runs shit because he plays in korea only because kespa wants to spread starcraft populatiry into North America. Idra bm'd straight up and Incontrol as an admin flexed his admin muscles. TIdra bm'd a referee, in any organized sport that merits an auto ban.
lets fucking move on and have a group hug.
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On August 11 2009 12:56 1a2a3aProtoss wrote:
this is really pathetic. Why are we bashing on Incontrol whos spending his time to run a fucking tournament people. Idra has a long history of being very proud and arrogant and thinks he runs shit because he plays in korea only because kespa wants to spread starcraft populatiry into North America. Idra bm'd straight up and Incontrol as an admin flexed his admin muscles. TIdra bm'd a referee, in any organized sport that merits an auto ban.
lets fucking move on and have a group hug.
Or maybe he's in Korea because he can actually play against some B-team players with some competency.
You can't disagree with me because I'm running this tournament. Send me the replays after you lose, you little shit.
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"k get out" is not an insult or a request. It's an order!
"pls leave" is a request.
It doesn't take any effort and it's not licking Incontrols nutsack, ok?
How anyone doesn't get that is completely beyond me.
Incontrol could have left it at that or flipped out, but he chose to be witty and stay reasonably collected.
Idra's insecure personality doesn't excuse anything.
Idra knows perfectly well how to be courtious and the importance of it.. he just chooses not to be. That's just plain DUMB.
I didn't really enjoy any of the games of the semis though. Such onesided games... (Idra and) WhiteRa just too too good!
I hope Dinot prepares some good cheeses in the finals or it'll be as one sided as JF vs white ra.
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On August 11 2009 15:46 wadadde wrote:
"k get out" is not an insult or a request. It's an order!
"pls leave" is a request.
It doesn't take any effort and it's not licking Incontrols nutsack, ok?
agree. all this argumentation with this "dear, mr, sir, please" long sentences are redundant.
and again its not like they were born yesterday and that what happend in the screenshot is the
first point of contact. there is a history aswell in the tournament as before. a history which interacts with assessment of words and actions.
sure isolated to this screenshot incontrol is the one who acted more childish and from looking at it afterwards more neutral without the dynamic of the moments and the tension, it would be more "professional" to leave in that situation and to disqualify Idra already before when he is bm.
but I guess in that situation you have some cleavage in you. on one hand you dont want to execlude him directly from the tournament and take away his chance of the money, on the other hand you can hardly tolerate bm in YOUR tournament like flaming dinot and all this maybe can lead you to this situation where you just begin to handle it your way, when the moment accurs where the barrel of your tolerance gets flooded. besides of any norm what would be in this situation more objective and fair.
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Lol i don't know much about idra beside his past bm stories, but the serie sure entertained me !
I'm curious about idra's mannerism though : Has he ever said 10 "gg" on his 10 consecutives loses ? If he didn't maybe it'll learn him a lot about how to behave in the gaming comunity.
Oh well i don't care.
On another note : Am i the only one who got impressed by dinot very very aggressive's style ?
I really love it. It's almost like he showed us how the Z should be played... Much like yellow / julyzerg.
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isolated i wanted to say that many of the problems and drama in the end results somehow in the way idra handles losing and when things doesnt go the way he wants to. so the question is how people handle it. should all his evironment just adapt to HIM and just tolerate it? will this bring him forward in his life? should they set rules in every tournament that punish it right of the bat?
imo in comparsion of a parent-child relationships, parents who just tolerate everything are same as worse as parents who just critize everything without a little bit of approval. you need to set fillips to make it attrative to strive for positive things and fillips to make negative things more avoidable. the early you learn it, the easier you can handle it in the future and as older you get the more your personality gets cemented.
so i think people who tolerate everything from idra arent doing him a favour either. then everytime there will be also people that jump on the bandwagon, use it to take revenge on him with the intention to put him down anyways. in the valor tournament where superdanielman turned into superrageman the way he attacked him was not appropriate but after that idra had atleast a much bigger fillip to act professional and said gg and left it to that even in games where he lost when i remember correctly.
i dont like when people force someone to be something which he isnt. like oh you are more a silent person that doesnt fit for me to my image of what has the most starquality and what not. be like this and that so i can praise you even more.
manners and to learn to interact positive with other people from your environment however is for me a complete different subject. but everybody close to idra and every admin must judge for themselves with what they do in the long run him and the community a bigger favour.
note: sorry if use words that are usally used in a different context. but i still must look from time to time in a online dictionary to express myself in an english forum.
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United States10774 Posts
On August 10 2009 14:43 Xeris wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2009 12:32 Klogon wrote:
Why are there pages and pages discussing this?
Idra lost. If you look at the replays, he lost. Lag or not, he just lost. So Inc and Idra BMed each other... this would only continue to be an issue if Idra won and they had to deal with each other in this context for one more match, but Idra lost.
So that's that, right? because it's an issue with the administration? O__O;; people are still talking about Tom Donaghey... he just bet on NBA games, he may or may not have actually rigged the outcomes.. so why do we talk about it? do you seriously have to ask that question ;p
because the Tom Donaghey issue casts a shadow on the entire NBA's integrity and operations
inc and idra bmed each other in game. sure, inc is the admin for this tournament, but who honestly cares about what happened? it's different from the Donaghey case in that this was a single, isolated incident. inc didn't go around obbing games and bming the players. for Donaghey, on the other hand, people just had no idea to what extent he cheated. we didn't know how prevalent betting was, or how far he exactly took it.
the series is over and that's that. this does not deserve several pages of attention.
(the only real issue is that tau cross wasn't in the map pool)
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
groro / oneother have this spot on.
It's over. The series is done. IdrA won't be banned from future stuff (afaik) and I will probably chew out a nerd who acts like a fool in the future.
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On August 11 2009 18:11 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
groro / oneother have this spot on.
It's over. The series is done. IdrA won't be banned from future stuff (afaik) and I will probably chew out a nerd who acts like a fool in the future.
Except you'll never be trusted to run tournaments again.
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On August 11 2009 18:27 Klive5ive wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2009 18:11 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
groro / oneother have this spot on.
It's over. The series is done. IdrA won't be banned from future stuff (afaik) and I will probably chew out a nerd who acts like a fool in the future. Except you'll never be trusted to run tournaments again.
O_O not very wise ....
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Ok. After a bit of thought, I think i know the problem here, and how to stop it from happening in the future. The problem is that the admin didn't have enough options at his disposal to deal with this kind of situation. Essentially he could only do one of two things (from a "professional" standpoint): One he could have ignored the player. Or two he could have kicked him from the torny. (as the rules stand currently)
There isn't really any stated protocol or action that the admin could have taken if a minor or unmentioned offence takes place. And that seems to be where the problem is. There really is no middle ground between ignoring and kicking.
What I suggest is a Three strikes and your out policy for minor warnings that last for the entire duration of the torny. This would cover anything the admin deems to be inappropriate that isn't explicitly stated in the rules. That way an admin can still take action against a player, and the action has real consequences for the player without making it personal.
This lack of an explicitly defined action or protocol is what left incontrol with very limited choices in terms of how he could respond. Idra wasn't doing anything that was explicitly stated he couldn't do (which means he couldn't be booted there and then), but he was doing something that the admin obviously deemed inappropriate. Therefore this led incontrol to GIVE him the consequence/warning in writing rather than in the form of a formal warning (that, currently, has no formal limits on how many of these warnings you could have).
To avoid this in the future, I suggest a tournament-long (as in three strikes for the whole tournament) three strikes and your out policy for minor and/or unstated offences.
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What I find funny is that inc left a lot of matches before either of the players gg'd. I mean it must have demoralized the losing player at least a little bit :p
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
I left because I was getting a weather update popup thingy that lagged the game to hell.
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I really like how the replay files have the game files up to game 5 for all of them even if they weren't played. Very nice to make it extra spoiler free, thanks a lot!
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
plexa is amazing
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Plexa is a gorgeous guy ;-)
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Cant understand why you guys are arguing about Idra lol
He is so helpless when zergs ( F91, Dinot, ...) make more than 6 lings at start and he is always trash talking his opponent and never says gg.
Anyway i'm happy for Ra and Dinot.
Go Ra !
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why do the non korean tournies use such bad maps? that is the only thing that keeps me from getting into them
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On August 12 2009 06:11 Postaljester wrote:
why do the non korean tournies use such bad maps? that is the only thing that keeps me from getting into them
Desti / Colosseum / Gods Garden / HbR are fairly recent Korean maps.
I don't know what you expect ...
Yea there is also LT but it is a special map :p
Edit: and forte and gowon.
4/7 are recent maps.
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There were some great games indeed.
No need to talk about Idra's behavior coz it's just pure BM and trashtalk, but the thing that bugged me the most was when he forbid Lz to stream games (becouse streamers lags games? or w/e).
Thank you Lz for the effort and other games/replays that were actually casted. 
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On August 11 2009 17:37 groro wrote:
isolated i wanted to say that many of the problems and drama in the end results somehow in the way idra handles losing and when things doesnt go the way he wants to. so the question is how people handle it. should all his evironment just adapt to HIM and just tolerate it? will this bring him forward in his life? should they set rules in every tournament that punish it right of the bat?
imo in comparsion of a parent-child relationships, parents who just tolerate everything are same as worse as parents who just critize everything without a little bit of approval. you need to set fillips to make it attrative to strive for positive things and fillips to make negative things more avoidable. the early you learn it, the easier you can handle it in the future and as older you get the more your personality gets cemented.
so i think people who tolerate everything from idra arent doing him a favour either. then everytime there will be also people that jump on the bandwagon, use it to take revenge on him with the intention to put him down anyways. in the valor tournament where superdanielman turned into superrageman the way he attacked him was not appropriate but after that idra had atleast a much bigger fillip to act professional and said gg and left it to that even in games where he lost when i remember correctly.
i dont like when people force someone to be something which he isnt. like oh you are more a silent person that doesnt fit for me to my image of what has the most starquality and what not. be like this and that so i can praise you even more.
manners and to learn to interact positive with other people from your environment however is for me a complete different subject. but everybody close to idra and every admin must judge for themselves with what they do in the long run him and the community a bigger favour.
note: sorry if use words that are usally used in a different context. but i still must look from time to time in a online dictionary to express myself in an english forum.
+1, well said
I was gonna write something just like this. but now I do not have to.
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Just finished watching the first semi-final series between IdrA and Dinot.
+ Show Spoiler +Congrats to Dinot for beating a progamer!
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..........
I'm going back to the salt 'n' vinegar chips thread
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wow so much DRAMA again. typical childish internet behaviour at its best...
i dont get why pple are discussing that much although the whole situation is over already. instead of bashing one another they should work on finding a solution how stuff like that can be dealt with in a more appropriate way in the future.
my 2cents about this wole incident:
about incontrol)
surely he acted childish, but saying that he shouldve acted in a better way or trashing him with the argument he didnt do his work as an admin is just totally illogical. he ruled it out that its not a professional tournament. he ruled it out that he is "god". so whatever he does -> its correct. its that easy. if pple have a problem with that just dont ever join a tournament hosted by him again. simple isnt it?
about idra)
well he is a player in a tournament, but not just any player. he represents a korean proteam and on top of that he should know how a normal civilized human beeing should behave in a business/professional environment (we are not playing a ghetto tournament). and dont argue about that hes playing in his freetime blabla. hes always part of the team. doesnt matter where and when. i expect of someone of that calibre to have at least BASIC social behavior/manner. that means no BS no BMing no naming and spilling stuff which just plainly doesnt belong into professional language usage ( meaning F* S* etc words). players have to follow and act according to rules admins set. thats how tournament work. thats how sports in general is organized. dont like it? then go change the world...
about the situation:
lets start with an example in another field, soccer for instance. a referee in soccer is "nonexistent" he is with the players all the time. running with them and supposed to not stand in the way.however if a ball gets blocked or interfered by a referee in any kind its supposed to be ignored. lets assume a player would start bad mouthing the referee cuz he did actually blocked/interfered with a ball. the referee would usually just penelize the team of the player by giving the ball to the other team or penelizing the player with fouldcard or DQing him from the game. THATs how stuff like that is dealt with in a professional world wide sport organization.
now lets compare that to the situation at hand.
1. inc is admin/referee. the game laggs cuz of him -> hes interfering. even if hed promised or is supposed to leave the game cuz it laggs. he doesnt HAVE to. a lagging game isnt a disadvantage for 1 certain player normally. I REPEAT LAGG AFFECTS BOTH PLAYERS.
2. going deeper in broodwar specifics: lagg usually is a disadvantage for Z in TvZ. and on top of that we never see dinot asking admin to leave cuz of lagg. so i doubt that there was a strong lagg or mebbe not even an internet lagg at all.
3. idra start telling admin to leave and a discussion breaks out. why doesnt he pause the game?
why are players allowed to type/discuss ingame anyway? compared to the example above its the situation where a player starts complaining to a referee. the difference is that in the example they actually might have a disadvantage in a match. in the broodwar game which happened there was not even the slightest hint of that which is stated in point 2.
4. inc starts to bm back and situation unfolds as known. well its not well handled of inc by my standards. but as said in the paragraph about inc its his good RIGHT to do so since hes stated it from the start. compared to the example of soccer i even consider his reaction to penalize idra in that way quite "nice" and also too light.
so to break it down:
if people really are the opinion that inc influenced the game by his acting and that shouldnt be done they are just plainly wrong. stuff like this happens all the time in big professional sports associations. players get angry get dealt and penalized by referees and still keep on playing. and those are even professional set rules of actions. on top of that idra behaved unprofessionally for a person of his position and im repeating once again inc did make clear under which circumstances the tournament rules are held.
PS: i still dont get why idra is allowed to play in foreign leagues/tournaments. i dont think the other korean progamers are allowed to. if they would be all the less succesful progamers and B-teamers would totally own the nonkorean leagues/tourneys. idra is getting once again an "extra" which really isnt justified by any standards.
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On August 12 2009 07:14 IceCube wrote:There were some great games indeed. No need to talk about Idra's behavior coz it's just pure BM and trashtalk, but the thing that bugged me the most was when he forbid Lz to stream games (becouse streamers lags games? or w/e). Thank you Lz for the effort and other games/replays that were actually casted.
it bugs you that people dont want to play in lag?
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Hope the final games are long and exciting!
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Oh man, after reading 7 pages of arguing, let us take our attention away from this little bump on the road... I'm sure all who are involved will learn from the experience and that is that. I think over all incontrol has put in a lot of time and effort and has ran this tournament very well, and will certainly learn from the experience and be a better admin in the future if needed.
I think this distraction has led a few to lose focus on the most important thing, that this is still such an amazing tournament, with the prize money exceeding $1000 which actually came from donations from anonymous members. I mean how freakin amazing is that and how many online gaming communities has the right combination of passion, maturity, generosity and resources to pull this off?
I think we can all agree that the tournament has been going fairly smoothly thus far. We are getting good games, nice stream coverage + replays, and we have two players who are well mannered and skilled going into the finals, what more is there to ask for?
Looking forward to the final games.
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My favorite aspect of tl.net is that every fucking poster is a saint.
Behavioral commentary is always:
"How would your response to the situation help in any way?"
"You should have put your ego aside."
"Don't let him drag you down to his level."
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lolol :D if anyone thinks "k, get out" is bad mannered, then you should check out the real world apart from sc. K get out...omg thats so harsh im gonna cry...If you agree to leave if it lags, and it does lag "k get out" means "allright, get out, it lags" just a bit shorter. So maybe people shouldnt be pussyholes all day long.
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oh and yes I did read that there was more after, but tbh inc just took the fucking piss. In real life he'd probably get knocked out for that !
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I like both Dinot and rA but White-rA is pretty much my all time fav foreigner so gl to him! I think he's the heavy favorite anyway. I'm sure he is surprised and happy to be playing Dinot for the big money instead of IdrA.
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I am the first to rip on IdrA... I've said probably a dozen times in the GOMtv threads that he's an asshole and deserves to lose more often than he does. That being said, IdrA was in the right here and iNcontroL was a complete douchebag. Authority should only be given to those mature enough to use it for everyone's benefit.
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On August 12 2009 01:42 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
I left because I was getting a weather update popup thingy that lagged the game to hell.
haha, its even more hilarious then, seeing as most times it happened just before someone got really badly raped rofl
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where can i find the replays of the semi-finals...?
EDIT: Nevermind i just found the reps... gotta read closer next time
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Xeofreestyler/highlanderbnr.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/Plexa/The_Highlander/TypeBOSL.jpg)
White-Ra and 
DinOt. Before I go on raving about these two players, there are a few matters to attend to..
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/oXg4O.png)
