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United States17042 Posts
There's one last note I'd like to make about this map: what the hell is up with the gas placement at the 7:00 main? Its proximity to the ramp means that disrupting gas collection with early pressure will be significantly easier than at any of the other positions. I pity the Terran who spawns at 7:00 vs. 2-gate goon.
The gas needs to be at the top or at the bottom, and the minerals need to be that distance away from the natural (so that the mins can be cliffed more easily if the nat is broken. I agree that it makes defending the main that much harder, but I'm not sure what exactly should be changed to make it better, seeing as with this structure the map is symmetrical, and it matches with the rest of the positions...
great writeup though. I like the storyline about flash, but I would rather see casy win in straight TvZ's (and meet gorush in the finals, but I thnk that's way too much to ask for.
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United States12607 Posts
On May 07 2009 00:15 GHOSTCLAW wrote:Show nested quote +
There's one last note I'd like to make about this map: what the hell is up with the gas placement at the 7:00 main? Its proximity to the ramp means that disrupting gas collection with early pressure will be significantly easier than at any of the other positions. I pity the Terran who spawns at 7:00 vs. 2-gate goon.
The gas needs to be at the top or at the bottom, and the minerals need to be that distance away from the natural (so that the mins can be cliffed more easily if the nat is broken. I agree that it makes defending the main that much harder, but I'm not sure what exactly should be changed to make it better, seeing as with this structure the map is symmetrical, and it matches with the rest of the positions...
That's all well and good, but why can't the 7:00 gas be below the mineral line? That would make it symmetrical with the top right position, and keep it a fair distance from the ramp. Basically, the location of the gas in no way matches with the rest of the positions.
The only potentially valid explanation for this gas placement thus far has been from LID8:
about the gas, i think it has to do with gas mining efficiency. i think geyser placement left and top have faster gathering rates than right and below.
Edit: see posts from Tuke and Chef below.
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On May 06 2009 22:28 konadora wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2009 20:52 SixSongs wrote:
Shuttle is crying..what a pussy. When I lose I don't cry, the worst case scenario I break my keyboard/mouse but NEVER CRY. Pussyyyyy Did you even read the thread? ThreadDie please for calling someone like Shuttle a pussy.
I second the request to please die. There's nothing weak about a strong love for the game. Now go break your keyboard-
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nice reading. I love OSL!! =)
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return of the bacchusbanners omfg yes i have waited for this moment
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Korea (South)3086 Posts
On May 07 2009 00:57 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
return of the bacchusbanners omfg yes i have waited for this moment
LOL 
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On May 06 2009 23:05 BookTwo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2009 20:53 SixSongs wrote:On May 06 2009 19:59 BookTwo wrote:
fantasy third time lucky gogogo Did u see what Hogil did to Fantasy? Fantasy won't win this. It will be Lee Jae Dong!!! NEVAH! He has to brake the curse on the third time like stork. cmoooon fantasy!!!
BREAK.
That and at least Fantasy made a good showing... Stork got horribly steamrolled on his tries.
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Holy crap that banner is fucking amazing!
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OMG Infested
Sorry, had to :D
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On May 06 2009 23:05 BookTwo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2009 20:53 SixSongs wrote:On May 06 2009 19:59 BookTwo wrote:
fantasy third time lucky gogogo Did u see what Hogil did to Fantasy? Fantasy won't win this. It will be Lee Jae Dong!!! NEVAH! He has to brake the curse on the third time like stork. cmoooon fantasy!!!
But that just means he'll get knocked out early this OSL and win the next.
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You rock JWD! And Flash always wins OSL's after Jaedong does so I'm confident.
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On May 07 2009 00:25 JWD wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2009 00:15 GHOSTCLAW wrote:
There's one last note I'd like to make about this map: what the hell is up with the gas placement at the 7:00 main? Its proximity to the ramp means that disrupting gas collection with early pressure will be significantly easier than at any of the other positions. I pity the Terran who spawns at 7:00 vs. 2-gate goon.
The gas needs to be at the top or at the bottom, and the minerals need to be that distance away from the natural (so that the mins can be cliffed more easily if the nat is broken. I agree that it makes defending the main that much harder, but I'm not sure what exactly should be changed to make it better, seeing as with this structure the map is symmetrical, and it matches with the rest of the positions... That's all well and good, but why can't the 7:00 gas be below the mineral line? That would make it symmetrical with the top right position, and keep it a fair distance from the ramp. Basically, the location of the gas in no way matches with the rest of the positions. The only potentially valid explanation for this gas placement thus far has been from LID8: Show nested quote +about the gas, i think it has to do with gas mining efficiency. i think geyser placement left and top have faster gathering rates than right and below. If someone could confirm/deny this statement I'd much appreciate it.
Here is some research done on gas placement http://www.panschk.de/mappage/newsscript/viewarticle.php?newsid=10 and http://www.panschk.de/mappage/newsscript/viewarticle.php?newsid=2 hopefully this helps 
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If someone could confirm/deny this statement I'd much appreciate it.
Confirmed... Like 5 years ago. 3 miners for top and to the left, 4 for bottom and to the right. Each position has 2 gas that are in optimal position, and 1 in non-optimal position. All of them have proper placement in the main (which is insanely important for ZvZ).
Here's one article explaining it breifly: http://www.panschk.de/mappage/newsscript/viewarticle.php?newsid=2
Here's another with an update on diagonal positions: http://www.panschk.de/mappage/newsscript/viewarticle.php?newsid=10
And this one is really, really complicated and includes data about minerals: http://www.yellowchrome.org/1com/sclegacy/final_review.pdf
Haven't you noticed that every geyser in all promaps for the last few years has been at the top or to the left in main bases? That's not just so Flash can build his supply depot below his CC. The only map that has gases to the right and to the bottom in mains is Katrina, which I hope you noticed was deliberately placed extra far away (in order that even to the top and to the left gas positions would need four workers). Unfortunately this also means builds that involve using a minimal number of SCVs on gas don't work properly, especially in zvz when you need extra lings, or a quicker hatchery, or whatever. You will get behind.
EDIT: Oh damn you tuke for beating me 
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United States12607 Posts
Thank you Tuke and Chef, obviously gas mining by efficiency is something I should have known about earlier (I figured if LID8 was unsure about it, there might be some confusion ). This obviously explains why the 7:00 gas is above the mineral line, but I still think the mapmakers could have comfortably arranged the main so that the gas was a bit farther from the ramp/cliff.
Ah, and thanks Rainman ^^ peace dude
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is awesome32282 Posts
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sweet!
btw that pic is sik
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I think Purple (11 o clock) has it the worst actually. It would be very easy to wall off that path with a supply depot and then hit on the gas and minerals from the left. Hopefully that won't be a big issue as the stage of the game the strategy becomes possible though. Defending it will be much like Medusa.
This isn't to say I think the map is bad or anything... If you look closely, all promaps have positional imbalances in them. I've never seen them decide the winner of the game in any direct fashion, though they do limit the strategies available to the player. If we wanted a completely symmetrical game where every player had exactly the same options, however, we would not have 3 races and every map would only have two start locations. The winner of the game is still the better player in most scenarios on these maps (and in fact, scouting the wrong direction will have a bigger impact on your game than these imbalances).
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We'll see how this map works out, but that tankdrop with scv to make supply can be pretty bad. Pro-players will probably show how it works and how it's countered.
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EPT
