EPT[OSL] Bisu's Destiny - Page 7
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
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Lukeeze[zR]
Switzerland6838 Posts
On February 26 2009 10:18 Plexa wrote: Nevahhhh!! I'm an angry MBC fanboy. We spent 3 years raising this beast, and now SKT1 gets all the credit >.<. Besides, SKT uniforms look terrible, MBC looks elegant. i share this pain T_T i still remember MBC beating CJ and SKT in SKYPL final, damn that was amazing it was such a deep roster. July, Bisu, Pusan, Sea, Light ... shark and thezerg sometimes carried their weight too. Good'ol times. If Bisu didnt come from the POS/MBC factory, i would surely not support him as much as I do now. | ||
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iloahz
United States964 Posts
On February 26 2009 15:04 fusionsdf wrote: its a period of dominance see: ![[image loading]](http://i39.tinypic.com/vq1rvt.png) Can you really say it would be an upset for bisu to lose to jaedong or flash (or even july or best)? until you can say that, hes not bonjwa. Savior's rivals were midas, hwasin, iris, nal_ra, nada of those, only nada could really be considered a strong favorite, and savior was still the odds-on favorite, even against him. sync won an osl. casy won an osl. Not dominant, not bonjwa. I mean july has a fucking golden mouse and hes still not considered bonjwa. Bisu would have to not only win the OSL, but show the dominance both inside and outside the OSL that he showed in the tiebreakers. the graph is a year old though. I wonder what 2008 in full would look like. | ||
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
On February 26 2009 15:49 Aurioch wrote: Would you please point out an example of how to go beyond another level of players such as Jaedong and Flash and Jangbi? 100% Winrate? boy.... Wish I had posted a graph that shows that....and you even quoted it like an idiot while frothing at the mouth. sorry buddy, but you don't get to personally decide who is bonjwa go back to USEast On February 26 2009 23:44 zhaoli86 wrote: the graph is a year old though. I wonder what 2008 in full would look like. the graph is less than a month old. What it says is that from the first date listed, say Feb 2006 to a year from then (feb 2007) that player had such and such winning percentage. That means at the end of a year of playing savior had ~75% winning rate. So the dates like Jan 2008 is actually the range from jan 2008 to one month ago. ---- On February 26 2009 16:49 Aurioch wrote: How would you categorize Bisu and FirebatHero's record against Savior? Is it all about statistic? I certainly hope not.. Bisu and Firebathero didnt have those records vs savior during savior's dominance (while he was bonjwa) Bisu: 0-0 FBH: 0-0 On February 26 2009 18:20 Plexa wrote: To be fair fusionsdf; do you consider oov to be a bonjwa? Becuase July raped him silly prior to oovs OSL win. Namely in the Gillette semis (2-3) and in iTv - twice. So yea, Oov got manhandled by July quite regularly. Savior was held back by Chojja as well - namely how he got raped in CYON. But all of that doesn't really matter. Once the Bonjwa enters Bonjwa mode (after winning their 3rd MSL until they win their OSL) there are no more players to hold them back. Prior to this they can lose games to weird people and the top tier, and can never truly be distinguished as the elite. However once in this stage nothing stands in their way - and Jaedong, nor Flash, are going to be able to stop Bisu. EDIT: after reading further it does seem that you have ignored all of savior's "reign" until the last part of his reign. Remember that savior looked VERY mortal against Midas in the MSL semifinal as well - so much so that he should have lost the 4th game (but midas is the epic game 4 choke artist). Oh and to all the people saying there will never be another bonjwa. Well, assuming SC doesn't die out, there will be another one. Who it will be I don't know; but what I do know is that people were saying there would be no more bonjwa's after Savior and look what we have here  .Yes, I consider oov a bonjwa. Dominance is important, not winning certain leagues in a certain time period (such things should only be used as a display of dominance). Its not like you have to win a certain number of leagues, or a certain league in a certain pattern. You are bonjwa when the korean fans say you are, and the korean fans say you are when you show the dominance required. You can cherry-pick games all you want. If you construct a graph of win-rate, and look at the periods where oov was dominant and savior was dominant, you will see them far and above their rivals. You won't see that for bisu, or for july, or for reach or for stork or for nal_ra or for midas or for hwasin etc You can lose a single game against an opponent considered to be the very best, or near the very best in that matchup. You don't have to have 100% winning rate to be bonjwa. But you do have to be dominant. So I will say again. If bisu wins OSL he is not guaranteed bonjwa status. bonjwa is dominance not specific patterns that bisu fanboys try and warp and make them fit. | ||
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
.Savior lost games to Chojja numerous times, OOv was manhandled by July on numerous occasions, all outside of the OSL run - which is where they achieved their bonjwa status. So please stop being so picky of bisu if you consider Savior and OOv bonjwas . The same thing is happening to Bisu as has happened to previous ones (ie god mode during their OSL run); a 9-0 after his OSL Rnd1 group disaster in the OSL speaks for itself. Killing Jangbi in GOM further cements this idea. SC is a very superstitious game; oov curse, kim carriers curse, OSL curse, bonjwa curse (oov > nada, savior > oov, bisu > savior)m legend of the fall and so on. So don't be surprised when the pattern repeats itself again. | ||
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
On February 27 2009 01:16 Plexa wrote: All signs point towards Bisu doing exactly what has been prescribed in legend fusionsdf .Savior lost games to Chojja numerous times, OOv was manhandled by July on numerous occasions, all outside of the OSL run - which is where they achieved their bonjwa status. So please stop being so picky of bisu if you consider Savior and OOv bonjwas . The same thing is happening to Bisu as has happened to previous ones (ie god mode during their OSL run); a 9-0 after his OSL Rnd1 group disaster in the OSL speaks for itself. Killing Jangbi in GOM further cements this idea. SC is a very superstitious game; oov curse, kim carriers curse, OSL curse, bonjwa curse (oov > nada, savior > oov, bisu > savior)m legend of the fall and so on. So don't be surprised when the pattern repeats itself again. woah woah woah savior was knocked out in one msl by chojja, and knocked chojja out (2-0 I might add) during the next MSL. show me a long period of bisu dominance. Thats all I'm asking you to do. Preferably a year long period of dominance, but at least something like 8 months. Bisu isnt as dominant right now as savior or bisu were during their primes, and you know it. those patterns are nice, but they don't mean a hell of a lot. | ||
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Piste
6184 Posts
On February 26 2009 23:44 zhaoli86 wrote: the graph is a year old though. I wonder what 2008 in full would look like. Something like this: ![[image loading]](http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/2048/nimetnx.png) | ||
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Mista
Singapore1022 Posts
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iloahz
United States964 Posts
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
On February 27 2009 02:04 Mista wrote: Haha that's cute.But be realistic I just checked. Bisu went up 1.1% to 67.77% (Mar 2008 - now) Savior went up 3.32% to 50.94 (Mar 2008 - now) | ||
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iloahz
United States964 Posts
Bisu has 47% from Mar 08 - Oct 08, but 76.5% from Oct 08 - present, a 5 month period, which isn't too short. | ||
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
It covers year long spans, and it covers every single month since 2005 in order to avoid bias. But no graph is going to be able to say everything and still be readable. If you want to make a graph with 6 month spans, you are more than welcome to. | ||
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reaver_drop
Canada131 Posts
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GinNtoniC
Sweden2945 Posts
On February 26 2009 01:43 Zinbiel wrote: Most of this article is really good but I really disapprove of the following statement: The Gods of Brood War took note of this, and realized their mistake. They took out the least valuable player from the OSL via physical injury (hi Backho) and gave Bisu another shot at the OSL - and indeed, Bisu advanced into the OSL just as fate intended. Backho would have made this OSL so much more fun, especially if he had been the one to beat stork again. You must be trippin'! :O If I so had hated Bisu with all my heart, I'd STILL think this OSL would be better with him. Great rivalry is the secret ingredient to any great tournament! (Thus I'm really sad my boxing-bag Flash is out  ) | ||
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iloahz
United States964 Posts
On February 27 2009 03:01 fusionsdf wrote: its not misleading and its not inaccurate. It covers year long spans, and it covers every single month since 2005 in order to avoid bias. But no graph is going to be able to say everything and still be readable. If you want to make a graph with 6 month spans, you are more than welcome to. The graph is misleading because: the horizontal span of 2008 is only a fraction of other years, and the 2 months of 2009 isn't covered. This makes Bisu's recent dominance seem much shorter than it really is. It's inaccurate because the win rates of bisu's are way off. Bisu has over 70% in every single month for the past 5 months. | ||
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
01/01/2008 - 01/01/2009 02/01/2008 - 02/01/2009 he may have 70% in specific months. He doesn't have 70% for an entire year (which is again what this graph measures) | ||
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fragamemnon
United States20 Posts
On February 27 2009 03:07 reaver_drop wrote: We all know Bisu is going to win the OSL, but HOW will he win it? Since he's 9-0, how amazing would it be if he went through the rest of the OSL without dropping a single game ... :D Isn't  Bisu on a collision course with  Jaedong in the semifinals? Going to be really hard for Bisu to beat Jaedong on Tears of the Moon due to that map's zany imba in PvZ. I know Bisu tested out a one-gate build against YellOw[ArnC] in a throwaway game in the OSL round of 16, but it felt terribly slow to develop-it did beat yarnc, but yarnc is no Jaedong. | ||
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brjdrb
United States577 Posts
On February 27 2009 04:16 fragamemnon wrote: Isn't Bisu on a collision course with Jaedong in the semifinals? Going to be really hard for Bisu to beat Jaedong on Tears of the Moon due to that map's zany imba in PvZ. I know Bisu tested out a one-gate build against YellOw[ArnC] in a throwaway game in the OSL round of 16, but it felt terribly slow to develop-it did beat yarnc, but yarnc is no Jaedong.we don't know the brackets yet for the osl, but they'll probably announce it sometime soon after the tiebreakers 2nite. so we'll get to know if jaedong faces bisu in the semis or the finals | ||
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