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On February 26 2009 08:16 erin[go]bragh wrote:Great write up! Really looking forward to the rest of this OSL, and the promise of a Bisu vs. Jaedong finals is amazing. Show nested quote +On February 26 2009 05:28 brjdrb wrote:
great writeup, but you're just throwing gasoline on a fire that's already out of control (bisu fanboyism). though i would love to see a jaedong vs bisu finals. or bisu vs best If you ask me, bisu haters are the ones who are out of control. Nowadays hating on Bisu (or more so, his fans) is much more of a bandwagon than Bisu fanboyism was. Most LR threads I read involving Bisu matches contains the usual "Go Bisu!" "Yay Bisu!" ect. ect, same as you'd see from any other fan of any other player. What's more annoying is seeing "OMG LOL BISU FANBOIYS SO ANNOYING" for the next couple pages. Granted you do get annoying ones every once in a while. But any player doing as well as KTY right now is going to get pumped up fans who act a little over the top sometimes. People just need to get over it.
I haven't seen that recently, could you cite some examples to support your assertion?
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On February 26 2009 11:17 Avidkeystamper wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2009 08:16 erin[go]bragh wrote:Great write up! Really looking forward to the rest of this OSL, and the promise of a Bisu vs. Jaedong finals is amazing. On February 26 2009 05:28 brjdrb wrote:
great writeup, but you're just throwing gasoline on a fire that's already out of control (bisu fanboyism). though i would love to see a jaedong vs bisu finals. or bisu vs best If you ask me, bisu haters are the ones who are out of control. Nowadays hating on Bisu (or more so, his fans) is much more of a bandwagon than Bisu fanboyism was. Most LR threads I read involving Bisu matches contains the usual "Go Bisu!" "Yay Bisu!" ect. ect, same as you'd see from any other fan of any other player. What's more annoying is seeing "OMG LOL BISU FANBOIYS SO ANNOYING" for the next couple pages. Granted you do get annoying ones every once in a while. But any player doing as well as KTY right now is going to get pumped up fans who act a little over the top sometimes. People just need to get over it. I haven't seen that recently, could you cite some examples to support your assertion?
Come on IRC and feeel the hate.
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On February 26 2009 11:17 Avidkeystamper wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2009 08:16 erin[go]bragh wrote:Great write up! Really looking forward to the rest of this OSL, and the promise of a Bisu vs. Jaedong finals is amazing. On February 26 2009 05:28 brjdrb wrote:
great writeup, but you're just throwing gasoline on a fire that's already out of control (bisu fanboyism). though i would love to see a jaedong vs bisu finals. or bisu vs best If you ask me, bisu haters are the ones who are out of control. Nowadays hating on Bisu (or more so, his fans) is much more of a bandwagon than Bisu fanboyism was. Most LR threads I read involving Bisu matches contains the usual "Go Bisu!" "Yay Bisu!" ect. ect, same as you'd see from any other fan of any other player. What's more annoying is seeing "OMG LOL BISU FANBOIYS SO ANNOYING" for the next couple pages. Granted you do get annoying ones every once in a while. But any player doing as well as KTY right now is going to get pumped up fans who act a little over the top sometimes. People just need to get over it. I haven't seen that recently, could you cite some examples to support your assertion?
Are you being serious? Or are you just being a devil's advocate?
In case of the latter, I'm going to spare myself the boredom of drudging through live report threads and instead take a look at this one.
On February 26 2009 03:00 Sunyveil wrote:
ugh I can't stand bisu. or his fanboys.
let's just pretend the GOM S2 was his fourth win and move on with it. And I don't think he'd beat JD on these maps anyawy
On February 26 2009 04:40 GHOSTCLAW wrote:
I"m so ready for jd vs bisu finals. And I hope that JD can win and shut up the bisu bonjwa fanboys -_-;; (only because they're so annoying, not because I have anything against bisu)
On February 26 2009 07:19 Trezeguet23 wrote:
"Bisu's Destiny"
Excuse my while I go throw up.
There's three right there in a five page thread. I personally don't give a damn about it, it's good for hype. But fact is you don't see me going to the Leta appreciation thread bashing him or his fans just because I think he's overrated. But I suppose that's just because I respect other SC fans, and considering this is such a small community, I'd rather get along with everyone rather than lump a group of people into a negative category just because I dislike the way they cheer for their favorite player.
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konadora
Singapore66158 Posts
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Bisu vs Jaedong, that would be sick!
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Braavos36374 Posts
On February 26 2009 12:39 erin[go]bragh wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2009 11:17 Avidkeystamper wrote:On February 26 2009 08:16 erin[go]bragh wrote:Great write up! Really looking forward to the rest of this OSL, and the promise of a Bisu vs. Jaedong finals is amazing. On February 26 2009 05:28 brjdrb wrote:
great writeup, but you're just throwing gasoline on a fire that's already out of control (bisu fanboyism). though i would love to see a jaedong vs bisu finals. or bisu vs best If you ask me, bisu haters are the ones who are out of control. Nowadays hating on Bisu (or more so, his fans) is much more of a bandwagon than Bisu fanboyism was. Most LR threads I read involving Bisu matches contains the usual "Go Bisu!" "Yay Bisu!" ect. ect, same as you'd see from any other fan of any other player. What's more annoying is seeing "OMG LOL BISU FANBOIYS SO ANNOYING" for the next couple pages. Granted you do get annoying ones every once in a while. But any player doing as well as KTY right now is going to get pumped up fans who act a little over the top sometimes. People just need to get over it. I haven't seen that recently, could you cite some examples to support your assertion? Are you being serious? Or are you just being a devil's advocate? In case of the latter, I'm going to spare myself the boredom of drudging through live report threads and instead take a look at this one. Show nested quote +On February 26 2009 03:00 Sunyveil wrote:
ugh I can't stand bisu. or his fanboys.
let's just pretend the GOM S2 was his fourth win and move on with it. And I don't think he'd beat JD on these maps anyawy Show nested quote +On February 26 2009 04:40 GHOSTCLAW wrote:
I"m so ready for jd vs bisu finals. And I hope that JD can win and shut up the bisu bonjwa fanboys -_-;; (only because they're so annoying, not because I have anything against bisu) Show nested quote +On February 26 2009 07:19 Trezeguet23 wrote:
"Bisu's Destiny"
Excuse my while I go throw up. There's three right there in a five page thread. I personally don't give a damn about it, it's good for hype. But fact is you don't see me going to the Leta appreciation thread bashing him or his fans just because I think he's overrated. But I suppose that's just because I respect other SC fans, and considering this is such a small community, I'd rather get along with everyone rather than lump a group of people into a negative category just because I dislike the way they cheer for their favorite player.
the number of haters rises with a player's bonjwa chances, its proven
so bisu is bonjwa soon lol
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I don't like the idea of  Bisu winning the osl but if it's  Destiny then so be it.
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On February 26 2009 12:39 erin[go]bragh wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2009 11:17 Avidkeystamper wrote:On February 26 2009 08:16 erin[go]bragh wrote:Great write up! Really looking forward to the rest of this OSL, and the promise of a Bisu vs. Jaedong finals is amazing. On February 26 2009 05:28 brjdrb wrote:
great writeup, but you're just throwing gasoline on a fire that's already out of control (bisu fanboyism). though i would love to see a jaedong vs bisu finals. or bisu vs best If you ask me, bisu haters are the ones who are out of control. Nowadays hating on Bisu (or more so, his fans) is much more of a bandwagon than Bisu fanboyism was. Most LR threads I read involving Bisu matches contains the usual "Go Bisu!" "Yay Bisu!" ect. ect, same as you'd see from any other fan of any other player. What's more annoying is seeing "OMG LOL BISU FANBOIYS SO ANNOYING" for the next couple pages. Granted you do get annoying ones every once in a while. But any player doing as well as KTY right now is going to get pumped up fans who act a little over the top sometimes. People just need to get over it. I haven't seen that recently, could you cite some examples to support your assertion? Are you being serious? Or are you just being a devil's advocate? In case of the latter, I'm going to spare myself the boredom of drudging through live report threads and instead take a look at this one. Show nested quote +On February 26 2009 03:00 Sunyveil wrote:
ugh I can't stand bisu. or his fanboys.
let's just pretend the GOM S2 was his fourth win and move on with it. And I don't think he'd beat JD on these maps anyawy Show nested quote +On February 26 2009 04:40 GHOSTCLAW wrote:
I"m so ready for jd vs bisu finals. And I hope that JD can win and shut up the bisu bonjwa fanboys -_-;; (only because they're so annoying, not because I have anything against bisu) Show nested quote +On February 26 2009 07:19 Trezeguet23 wrote:
"Bisu's Destiny"
Excuse my while I go throw up. There's three right there in a five page thread. I personally don't give a damn about it, it's good for hype. But fact is you don't see me going to the Leta appreciation thread bashing him or his fans just because I think he's overrated. But I suppose that's just because I respect other SC fans, and considering this is such a small community, I'd rather get along with everyone rather than lump a group of people into a negative category just because I dislike the way they cheer for their favorite player.
That's in response to the thread, "Bisu's Destiny". This title is a far cry from the normal cryptic titles, +the word destiny is just asking for it. Anyways, you cited that this happened in LR threads, where there isn't a humongous bias toward Bisu in the title, and yesterday, I don't recall any particular heated posts attacking the fanboys without provocation, which is what I wanted to see.
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The path of a Bonjwa has been well established by the 3 former Bonjwa - Nada, Oov and Savior. Of course Boxer is considered a Bonjwa, but never walked the path of one. The path of a Bonjwa is to win 3 MSLs then win the OSL immediately after the third MSL. For Nada, this was the 2nd, 3rd and 4th KPGA Tours followed by Panasonic OSL. In Panasonic he overcame Chojja, one of Nada's rivals at the time. For iloveoov, this was Trigem, Cengame and SPRIS MSLs followed by EVER2004 OSL where he squared off against his master and mentor, Boxer, in the finals. For Savior, it was UZOO, Pringles 1 and Pringles 2 MSLs followed by Shinhan S3 OSL where he overcame long time rival, Nada, in the final.
NO
NO
NO!
bonjwa is determined by fan consensus regarding a player's dominance. Winning an OSL won't do it. Filling a 'pattern' won't do it. Bisu would have to be free of rivals (or have his rival comparable to nal_ra vs savior), i.e., much much better than both jaedong and flash to be considered bonjwa.
Until that happens, bisu won't be bonjwa. It's dominance, not patterns
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On February 26 2009 14:40 fusionsdf wrote:Show nested quote +The path of a Bonjwa has been well established by the 3 former Bonjwa - Nada, Oov and Savior. Of course Boxer is considered a Bonjwa, but never walked the path of one. The path of a Bonjwa is to win 3 MSLs then win the OSL immediately after the third MSL. For Nada, this was the 2nd, 3rd and 4th KPGA Tours followed by Panasonic OSL. In Panasonic he overcame Chojja, one of Nada's rivals at the time. For iloveoov, this was Trigem, Cengame and SPRIS MSLs followed by EVER2004 OSL where he squared off against his master and mentor, Boxer, in the finals. For Savior, it was UZOO, Pringles 1 and Pringles 2 MSLs followed by Shinhan S3 OSL where he overcame long time rival, Nada, in the final.
NO NO NO! bonjwa is determined by fan consensus regarding a player's dominance. Winning an OSL won't do it. Filling a 'pattern' won't do it. Bisu would have to be free of rivals (or have his rival comparable to nal_ra vs savior), i.e., much much better than both jaedong and flash to be considered bonjwa. Until that happens, bisu won't be bonjwa. It's dominance, not patterns
your sig disagrees.
:monocle:
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On February 26 2009 14:40 fusionsdf wrote:Show nested quote +The path of a Bonjwa has been well established by the 3 former Bonjwa - Nada, Oov and Savior. Of course Boxer is considered a Bonjwa, but never walked the path of one. The path of a Bonjwa is to win 3 MSLs then win the OSL immediately after the third MSL. For Nada, this was the 2nd, 3rd and 4th KPGA Tours followed by Panasonic OSL. In Panasonic he overcame Chojja, one of Nada's rivals at the time. For iloveoov, this was Trigem, Cengame and SPRIS MSLs followed by EVER2004 OSL where he squared off against his master and mentor, Boxer, in the finals. For Savior, it was UZOO, Pringles 1 and Pringles 2 MSLs followed by Shinhan S3 OSL where he overcame long time rival, Nada, in the final.
NO NO NO! bonjwa is determined by fan consensus regarding a player's dominance. Winning an OSL won't do it. Filling a 'pattern' won't do it. Bisu would have to be free of rivals (or have his rival comparable to nal_ra vs savior), i.e., much much better than both jaedong and flash to be considered bonjwa. Until that happens, bisu won't be bonjwa. It's dominance, not patterns
Winning OSL = dominant. How can 1 be not dominant and win 3 MSL + GOM + OSL?
If you are regarding him beating Jaedong and Flash. Well, are you going to blame Bisu for flash getting knocked out in the group stages or if Jaedong loses before he gets to the finals?
People are setting up random qualifications for Bisu to be bonjwa.
Before it was 3MSL + OSL. He wins his 3rd MSL and people started to panic and said he had to perform well in WL/PL and was only a tournement player. Now that his the only one actually winning games for SKT1 and break the ELO peak, they coming up with random stuff like he has to 3-0 Flash and Jaedong on the same day or whatever.
Lets look at his ELO
1. Bisu - 2330
2. Jangbi - 2277
3. Jaedong - 2264
4. Flash - 2261
Look at the difference between #4 - #3. There is an average of 8 points difference between #4 #3 and #2.
Then Bisu is sitting on a massive massive 58 point gap between #1 and #2 = domination!!!
Now shift your eyes from the numbers and look at the names. JANGBI JAEDONG FLASH.
Plz we all look forward to a Bisu vs Jaedong finals. But don't blame Bisu if Jaedong doesnt make it to the finals!
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On February 26 2009 14:21 Avidkeystamper wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2009 12:39 erin[go]bragh wrote:On February 26 2009 11:17 Avidkeystamper wrote:On February 26 2009 08:16 erin[go]bragh wrote:Great write up! Really looking forward to the rest of this OSL, and the promise of a Bisu vs. Jaedong finals is amazing. On February 26 2009 05:28 brjdrb wrote:
great writeup, but you're just throwing gasoline on a fire that's already out of control (bisu fanboyism). though i would love to see a jaedong vs bisu finals. or bisu vs best If you ask me, bisu haters are the ones who are out of control. Nowadays hating on Bisu (or more so, his fans) is much more of a bandwagon than Bisu fanboyism was. Most LR threads I read involving Bisu matches contains the usual "Go Bisu!" "Yay Bisu!" ect. ect, same as you'd see from any other fan of any other player. What's more annoying is seeing "OMG LOL BISU FANBOIYS SO ANNOYING" for the next couple pages. Granted you do get annoying ones every once in a while. But any player doing as well as KTY right now is going to get pumped up fans who act a little over the top sometimes. People just need to get over it. I haven't seen that recently, could you cite some examples to support your assertion? Are you being serious? Or are you just being a devil's advocate? In case of the latter, I'm going to spare myself the boredom of drudging through live report threads and instead take a look at this one. On February 26 2009 03:00 Sunyveil wrote:
ugh I can't stand bisu. or his fanboys.
let's just pretend the GOM S2 was his fourth win and move on with it. And I don't think he'd beat JD on these maps anyawy On February 26 2009 04:40 GHOSTCLAW wrote:
I"m so ready for jd vs bisu finals. And I hope that JD can win and shut up the bisu bonjwa fanboys -_-;; (only because they're so annoying, not because I have anything against bisu) On February 26 2009 07:19 Trezeguet23 wrote:
"Bisu's Destiny"
Excuse my while I go throw up. There's three right there in a five page thread. I personally don't give a damn about it, it's good for hype. But fact is you don't see me going to the Leta appreciation thread bashing him or his fans just because I think he's overrated. But I suppose that's just because I respect other SC fans, and considering this is such a small community, I'd rather get along with everyone rather than lump a group of people into a negative category just because I dislike the way they cheer for their favorite player. That's in response to the thread, "Bisu's Destiny". This title is a far cry from the normal cryptic titles, +the word destiny is just asking for it. Anyways, you cited that this happened in LR threads, where there isn't a humongous bias toward Bisu in the title, and yesterday, I don't recall any particular heated posts attacking the fanboys without provocation, which is what I wanted to see.
I don't recall saying it happens only in LR threads, and I never cited last nights match as an example. Are you saying there isn't rabid anti-bisu fanboyism? Rather than dodging bullets, produce some sort of argument of your own, if that's what you wish to do!
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its a period of dominance
see:
Can you really say it would be an upset for bisu to lose to jaedong or flash (or even july or best)?
until you can say that, hes not bonjwa.
Savior's rivals were midas, hwasin, iris, nal_ra, nada
of those, only nada could really be considered a strong favorite, and savior was still the odds-on favorite, even against him.
sync won an osl. casy won an osl. Not dominant, not bonjwa.
I mean july has a fucking golden mouse and hes still not considered bonjwa.
Bisu would have to not only win the OSL, but show the dominance both inside and outside the OSL that he showed in the tiebreakers.
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this is the most frustrating thing about blind bisu fanboys:
bisu not being bonjwa has more to do with jaedong and flash, than it does bisu not having enough skill
tl;dr: bisu isn't bonjwa, bisu doesn't want to be bonjwa, stop sucking his dick
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On February 26 2009 14:40 fusionsdf wrote:Show nested quote +The path of a Bonjwa has been well established by the 3 former Bonjwa - Nada, Oov and Savior. Of course Boxer is considered a Bonjwa, but never walked the path of one. The path of a Bonjwa is to win 3 MSLs then win the OSL immediately after the third MSL. For Nada, this was the 2nd, 3rd and 4th KPGA Tours followed by Panasonic OSL. In Panasonic he overcame Chojja, one of Nada's rivals at the time. For iloveoov, this was Trigem, Cengame and SPRIS MSLs followed by EVER2004 OSL where he squared off against his master and mentor, Boxer, in the finals. For Savior, it was UZOO, Pringles 1 and Pringles 2 MSLs followed by Shinhan S3 OSL where he overcame long time rival, Nada, in the final.
NO NO NO! bonjwa is determined by fan consensus regarding a player's dominance. Winning an OSL won't do it. Filling a 'pattern' won't do it. Bisu would have to be free of rivals (or have his rival comparable to nal_ra vs savior), i.e., much much better than both jaedong and flash to be considered bonjwa. Until that happens, bisu won't be bonjwa. It's dominance, not patterns
Dominance has a certain pattern. It's called winning. What is Bisu doing? Winning. So you don't believe he is dominating his opponents in every single game he plays. What if Bisu wins 3 more starleagues but does not do it in a "dominating fashion" will you still not consider him a bonjwa? He currently has the highest ELO rating any player has ever had since they introduced the system. He has a higher ELO peak than Oov had when he was dominating everyone, and the players today are levels upon levels better than they were back then.
Do I consider Bisu a bonjwa now? No I do not think so but he is extremely close to that title. And I am affraid that if you think the next bonjwa needs to dominate like Oov did you will never see a bonjwa ever again.
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I won't consider him a bonjwa, no. I will consider him the most skilled protoss in history, and one of the very best players ever.
But he still won't be bonjwa. And neither will Flash or Jaedong until one of them really really takes off, or the others falter.
also, the whole ELO peak higher + harder players = twice as good is really misleading
ELO peak is inflationary, in large part because the players are better. Iloveoov had a stronger period of dominance than bisu, of that there can be no doubt.
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On February 26 2009 15:13 ChoboOv wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2009 14:40 fusionsdf wrote:The path of a Bonjwa has been well established by the 3 former Bonjwa - Nada, Oov and Savior. Of course Boxer is considered a Bonjwa, but never walked the path of one. The path of a Bonjwa is to win 3 MSLs then win the OSL immediately after the third MSL. For Nada, this was the 2nd, 3rd and 4th KPGA Tours followed by Panasonic OSL. In Panasonic he overcame Chojja, one of Nada's rivals at the time. For iloveoov, this was Trigem, Cengame and SPRIS MSLs followed by EVER2004 OSL where he squared off against his master and mentor, Boxer, in the finals. For Savior, it was UZOO, Pringles 1 and Pringles 2 MSLs followed by Shinhan S3 OSL where he overcame long time rival, Nada, in the final.
NO NO NO! bonjwa is determined by fan consensus regarding a player's dominance. Winning an OSL won't do it. Filling a 'pattern' won't do it. Bisu would have to be free of rivals (or have his rival comparable to nal_ra vs savior), i.e., much much better than both jaedong and flash to be considered bonjwa. Until that happens, bisu won't be bonjwa. It's dominance, not patterns Dominance has a certain pattern. It's called winning. What is Bisu doing? Winning. So you don't believe he is dominating his opponents in every single game he plays. What if Bisu wins 3 more starleagues but does not do it in a "dominating fashion" will you still not consider him a bonjwa? He currently has the highest ELO rating any player has ever had since they introduced the system. He has a higher ELO peak than Oov had when he was dominating everyone, and the players today are levels upon levels better than they were back then. Do I consider Bisu a bonjwa now? No I do not think so but he is extremely close to that title. And I am affraid that if you think the next bonjwa needs to dominate like Oov did you will never see a bonjwa ever again.
/obligatory post about ELO inflation since oov's time followed by rant about "fanboyism" and people caring way too much about ELOs
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On February 26 2009 15:16 fusionsdf wrote:
I won't consider him a bonjwa, no. I will consider him the most skilled protoss in history, and one of the very best players ever.
But he still won't be bonjwa. And neither will Flash or Jaedong until one of them really really takes off, or the others falter.
also, the whole ELO peak higher + harder players = twice as good is really misleading
ELO peak is inflationary, in large part because the players are better. Iloveoov had a stronger period of dominance than bisu, of that there can be no doubt.
You are no doubt undescribe by word, not even human retardation. Your hatred toward a player is stronger then kryptonite. Wut a faggot, you triple post just so you can satisfy your own projectory of who's worthy to be a bonjwa, guess wut, we don't give a fuk wut u think.
When those bonjwas were playing, who the fuck was actually competing at their level? Bisu, to be able to win MSL and GOMTVS2 with these kind of calibers around such as Jaedong, Flash, Jangbi, Stork, etc, are no doubt the most dominance player right now. What happen to Savior when the level of play increases? He simply got rolled over, drop into B-Team, wow, nice trait of a bonjwa don't you think? You, my friend, need to stop sucking Savior's dick.
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Wow this thread stirs up some serious feelings.
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On February 26 2009 15:26 Aurioch wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2009 15:16 fusionsdf wrote:
I won't consider him a bonjwa, no. I will consider him the most skilled protoss in history, and one of the very best players ever.
But he still won't be bonjwa. And neither will Flash or Jaedong until one of them really really takes off, or the others falter.
also, the whole ELO peak higher + harder players = twice as good is really misleading
ELO peak is inflationary, in large part because the players are better. Iloveoov had a stronger period of dominance than bisu, of that there can be no doubt. You are no doubt undescribe by word, not even human retardation. Your hatred toward a player is stronger then kryptonite. Wut a faggot, you triple post just so you can satisfy your own projectory of who's worthy to be a bonjwa, guess wut, we don't give a fuk wut u think. When those bonjwas were playing, who the fuck was actually competing at their level? Bisu, to be able to win MSL and GOMTVS2 with these kind of calibers around such as Jaedong, Flash, Jangbi, Stork, etc, are no doubt the most dominance player right now. What happen to Savior when the level of play increases? He simply got rolled over, drop into B-Team, wow, nice trait of a bonjwa don't you think? You, my friend, need to stop sucking Savior's dick.
i think you need to take a chill pill. first of all, he didn't even mention savior, so idk where you came up with that. second, the view of bonjwa that he's advocating is one that's pretty generally accepted, in that a bonjwa is a player who is clearly on another level from all other players. bisu is not showing that sort of dominance. yes, he is pretty clearly the best overall protoss (though maybe not in all mu's), and one of the top players. is he clearly on another level from jaedong and flash and jangbi? no. that's all that fusion was saying. no need to flame him for it?
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i39.tinypic.com/vq1rvt.png)
