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[OSL] Bisu's Destiny - Page 9

Forum Index > News
166 CommentsPost a Reply
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Carnac
Profile Blog Joined December 2003
Germany / USA16648 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-01 01:34:52
March 01 2009 01:29 GMT
#161
Only quoting the part of Letmelose's post I deem the most relevant:
On February 28 2009 04:37 Letmelose wrote:
Domination at "bonjwa level" isn't cherry picking some cute facts about your favourite player and arguing for his "bonjwahood". It's pretty much being the best at everything. Winning more titles than your rivals, being the best player of your team and the entire scene by some distance, having better winning percentages - the usual.

Like fusionsdf mentioned, I think people on this site have varying opinions on what a bonjwa is, whereas people on Korean communities more or less came to the conclusion that it's about complete domination over fellow progamers for a certain length of time more than anything else. Of course, since the phrase has no concrete definitition, maybe this is the beauty (or horror) of the whole thing. In my opinion, Bisu has already succeeded in being a protoss legend, but his relative superiority compared to his rivals is simply way too putrid to call him a bonjwa.

I very much agree with this. Bonjwa isn't about some pattern or percentages. It's not about which and how many leagues a player wins and what his winning percentage are (although you can obviously not be a bonjwa without winning titles and a 50% win ratio). Those may be interesting to look at and the similarity of former bonjwas in those aspects may be noteworthy, but in the end it's not what made them bonjwas.

What made them bonjwas was their absolute dominance in playstyle. Sure, no player will ever win all his games, but against the bonjwa you always play the uphill battle. When your favourite player has to play the bonjwa you expect him to lose (you can't believe the frustration I felt after every match oov had to play against Savior -.-) and when he wins you're surprised and happy (anyone remember how Savior was expected to utterly destroy Bisu in MSL finals? lol). You are in constant fear of your player having to face the bonjwa. There is a decent amount of players who maybe wouldn't be the favourite to beat Bisu in a Bo5 right now, but who would have a fair chance. I dare you to give me a list of players who would have had a fair chance to beat oov or Savior in a Bo5 in their respective prime and then compare the scope of that list to a list of players who would have a fair chance to beat Bisu in a Bo5 right now.

Is Bisu a bonjwa? To me he is not and I don't think he should be to anyone. Will he ever be? Probably not. Will any other player ever be? Probably not either, not for the foreseeable future anyway.

On the other hand - is Bisu the best player at the moment? Maybe (probably actually). But even if he is, it's only by a very slight margin, players like Jaedong and Flash are at least very close behind. That wasn't the case when NaDa, iloveoov and Savior truly reigned. It was them being clearly far ahead of the rest, them at #1 and then a lot of void.

That being said I'm sick and tired of this whole fucking stupid bonjwa thing being repeatedly discussed over and over again. I don't remember in which thread I saw this and who said it (was today though, I think), but the mere fact that this is discussed so much clearly (more than anything else) hints towards Bisu not being a bonjwa, because when iloveoov or Savior were bonjwas no one even considered to discuss it - it was taken for granted by everyone who had any idea at all about the pro scene.
ModeratorHi! I'm a .signature *virus*! Copy me into your ~/.signature to help me spread!
a-game
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
Canada5214 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-01 02:23:15
March 01 2009 02:19 GMT
#162
On March 01 2009 10:29 Carnac wrote:
the mere fact that this is discussed so much clearly (more than anything else) hints towards Bisu not being a bonjwa, because when iloveoov or Savior were bonjwas no one even considered to discuss it - it was taken for granted by everyone who had any idea at all about the pro scene.

not going to enter the actual debate of whether bisu is or is not _insert label_, but just wanted to comment on this part of what you said.

i'm not sure if either of those guys had as large and passionate an antifan group. i vaguely recollect iloveoov was pretty despised, so maybe he did. but it didn't seem like savior had quite as large and vocal an antifan following.

one theory on this could be that anytime the dominant player is dethroned, his fanbase will be resentful of the successor. because afaik iloveoov didn't have a huge fanbase there wasn't a huge tidal wave of resentment directed at savior for dethroning him. [note: did savior dethrone iloveoov? now that i think of it i'm not even sure savior had to dethrone anybody.. all the more reason for why he might've had a lesser backlash]

however, MJY's following was supermassive, and so it'd make sense if a huge part of the community would be more likely to balk at any bisu coronation than occurred for previous coronations.

just a theory anyways, that we should pay attention to things like fanbase dynamics when we use arguments like "this players coronation is being more heavily debated than past coronations". again, not saying this proves bisu is X or Y, just addressing that one particular angle you raised
you wouldnt feel that way if it was *your* magical sword of mantouchery that got stolen - racebannon
Carnac
Profile Blog Joined December 2003
Germany / USA16648 Posts
March 01 2009 02:24 GMT
#163
I dunno, I just know that I hated Savior back then, because I loved oov t_t
ModeratorHi! I'm a .signature *virus*! Copy me into your ~/.signature to help me spread!
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
March 01 2009 08:59 GMT
#164
At this point, I really don't care about the debate whether or not Bisu is a bonjwa. I do know that he is the best Protoss player to ever play the game, and that's good enough for me.
Moderator
simfarm
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Ireland75 Posts
March 01 2009 15:48 GMT
#165
+ Show Spoiler +
So today Jaedong beat Bisu in the GOMTV championship series. I'm quite surprised that I'm the first to mention that this adds to the "defeating a rival" requirement of the bonjwa in the final OSL. Anyway when I watched the results... eek.
oo_xerox
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States852 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-02 06:48:55
March 02 2009 06:34 GMT
#166
yeah, u also forgot to mention
+ Show Spoiler +
The prophecy that if bisu wins 2 games then he would win the entire set was also broken, sad, i was cheering for bisu actually


On the other hand, i have to agreed on what carnac said, a bonjwa is not the player u liek the most, is not the player u would liek to have in your team, it is the player that u do not want the other team to have. It is someone who has 99% win ensurance, and everyone is afraid of. I dont think Bisu has those atributes. If he were in my oponents team, id just send my best player, instead of saying,"aww shit heres bisu, he will certanly do an allkill", just what used to happen with oov,savior,nada. _______,,,_\º,º/_,,,____
I could get a more coherent article by gluing a Sharpie to a dog's cook and letting it hump the page.
StarBrift
Profile Joined January 2008
Sweden1761 Posts
March 02 2009 14:34 GMT
#167
Predicting Stork would go 0-2 in the tiebreaker was kind of a bad call but none the less excellent writeup.
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