On thursday the MSL continued with two bo3 series for the winners. Winning this week meant a place in the semi-finals, fame, and all the ladies. Here were the matchups:
Group A Bisu[Shield] vs Light[Alive]
Maps: Desert Fox / Reverse Temple / BlitzX
Group B BiFrost vs SaviOr
Maps: Longinus II / Desert Fox / Reverse Temple
Set One: Bisu[Shield] vs Light[Alive]
Game One: Desert Fox *Note, skip half way through this video for the game if you are not interested in the pregame speaking
Note: To watch the games in full screen, you need to visit the video on the Google site. You can find this game here.
Try as he might, Bisu was simply unable to secure an expansion outside his island, as Light played the perfect expo denial game. Thus, carrier tech was somewhat impotent with only two gas, and could not give Bisu the victory.
Game Two: Reverse Temple
Note: To watch the games in full screen, you need to visit the video on the Google site. You can find this game here.
Bisu's fine early game dragoon control combined with some reaver harass really set Light on the defensive. This opening give Bisu the chance to go for some early carriers while still holding the play in the battlefield. Onec his air force grew, he abused the terrain of the map for maximum damage.
Game Three: BlitzX
Note: To watch the games in full screen, you need to visit the video on the Google site. You can find this game here.
A 14 Nexus vs proxy barracks usually goes the terran's way, but Bisu countered with a handful of hero probes and some nice micro. With the initial attack squandered, it was all downhill as Bisu teched to reavers. It looked like Sea[Shield] vs rA on Rush Hour... except for the outcome.
Set Two: BiFrost vs Savior
Game One: Longinus II
Note: To watch the games in full screen, you need to visit the video on the Google site. You can find this game here.
Savior doesnt nine pool a lot... but it is still a card he can pull out of his hat now and then. With terran players expanding like zergs these days, Savior showed BiFrost a "manner up" build.
Game Two: Desert Fox
Note: To watch the games in full screen, you need to visit the video on the Google site. You can find this game here.
This game showed what we all knew about Desert Fox to begin with. Terran can simply sit in their base and macro, while their zerg and protoss opponents can throw every creative angle at them but stil lose.
Game Three: Reverse Temple
Note: To watch the games in full screen, you need to visit the video on the Google site. You can find this game here.
"This game showed what we all knew about Desert Fox to begin with. Terran can simply sit in their base and macro, while their zerg and protoss opponents can throw every creative angle at them but stil lose."
That was cute. What is it zergs usually say to tosses who complain? Learn to play? Adapt? :p
And it was not like Bifrost just sat there doing nothing.
On January 27 2007 04:43 psychosis wrote: "This game showed what we all knew about Desert Fox to begin with. Terran can simply sit in their base and macro, while their zerg and protoss opponents can throw every creative angle at them but stil lose."
That was cute. What is it zergs usually say to tosses who complain? Learn to play? Adapt? :p
And it was not like Bifrost just sat there doing nothing.
On January 27 2007 04:43 psychosis wrote: "This game showed what we all knew about Desert Fox to begin with. Terran can simply sit in their base and macro, while their zerg and protoss opponents can throw every creative angle at them but stil lose."
That was cute. What is it zergs usually say to tosses who complain? Learn to play? Adapt? :p
And it was not like Bifrost just sat there doing nothing.
Was just a general statement in regards to how zergs, and others, always say "stfu and learn to play" when someone mention anything that can be transalated to "PvZ imba". But they, the zergs, love to complain about how air maps are "anti-zerg". Maybe the same mentallity is valid there as well? "STFU and learn to play".
And I disagree with your view of the game. Savior didn't throw all he had at Bifrost. He did a couple of fast lurker drops but after that it was Bifrost that constantly attacked and savior defending. He did that defending quite well I thought. Scourged quite a lot of Dropships. If he had held for a tad longer the outcome could have been win for him. Bifrost was running out of recourses. Savior never got to hive tech 'tho. This game, game 2, was definalty the best game out of the 3. The 2 others was just boring rushes by savior. Well executed, but boring.
Oh. Almost forgot again >.<
Great report otherwise. Thanks for neverending contibutions and feeding us with news and events from Korean Pro Scene, Mani.
Great reports Maniefrsto7, I don't have time right now to watch them, because i gotta go to work. But as soon as I get home I'll definitely watch them. GJ!!!! >
On January 27 2007 04:43 psychosis wrote: "This game showed what we all knew about Desert Fox to begin with. Terran can simply sit in their base and macro, while their zerg and protoss opponents can throw every creative angle at them but stil lose."
That was cute. What is it zergs usually say to tosses who complain? Learn to play? Adapt? :p
And it was not like Bifrost just sat there doing nothing.
Was just a general statement in regards to how zergs, and others, always say "stfu and learn to play" when someone mention anything that can be transalated to "PvZ imba". But they, the zergs, love to complain about how air maps are "anti-zerg". Maybe the same mentallity is valid there as well? "STFU and learn to play".
And I disagree with your view of the game. Savior didn't throw all he had at Bifrost. He did a couple of fast lurker drops but after that it was Bifrost that constantly attacked and savior defending. He did that defending quite well I thought. Scourged quite a lot of Dropships. If he had held for a tad longer the outcome could have been win for him. Bifrost was running out of recourses. Savior never got to hive tech 'tho. This game, game 2, was definalty the best game out of the 3. The 2 others was just boring rushes by savior. Well executed, but boring.
Oh. Almost forgot again >.<
Great report otherwise. Thanks for neverending contibutions and feeding us with news and events from Korean Pro Scene, Mani.
Im not talking about racial imbalance, I am talking about map imbalance. This map is unbalanced because terran does not need to take the risk of expanding outside their island to win, but both protoss and zerg do. Combine that with the ease of their fast expansion, and I think that this map is an easy map for terran.
Bifrost didnt do anything other than send dropships about. He did not have to take any kind of gamble, and stared at the same quater of the screen all game long.
As for Savior's "boring" rushes, well I consider them builds that counter the FE arrogance of terrans these days, who feel that they can expand behind one rax, one rine, and a placed depot. Boring it may be, it is savior destroying their ability to use those builds vs him in the future, which is extremely valuable.
On January 27 2007 06:49 Manifesto7 wrote: As for Savior's "boring" rushes, well I consider them builds that counter the FE arrogance of terrans these days, who feel that they can expand behind one rax, one rine, and a placed depot.
its very interesting how savior did 5 pool but only made up to 5 drones, then 1 overlord, rather than 6 drones and be at 6/9 control. i didn't think that was possible to accumulate 150 minerals that way
On January 27 2007 04:43 psychosis wrote: "This game showed what we all knew about Desert Fox to begin with. Terran can simply sit in their base and macro, while their zerg and protoss opponents can throw every creative angle at them but stil lose."
That was cute. What is it zergs usually say to tosses who complain? Learn to play? Adapt? :p
And it was not like Bifrost just sat there doing nothing.
Was just a general statement in regards to how zergs, and others, always say "stfu and learn to play" when someone mention anything that can be transalated to "PvZ imba". But they, the zergs, love to complain about how air maps are "anti-zerg". Maybe the same mentallity is valid there as well? "STFU and learn to play".
And I disagree with your view of the game. Savior didn't throw all he had at Bifrost. He did a couple of fast lurker drops but after that it was Bifrost that constantly attacked and savior defending. He did that defending quite well I thought. Scourged quite a lot of Dropships. If he had held for a tad longer the outcome could have been win for him. Bifrost was running out of recourses. Savior never got to hive tech 'tho. This game, game 2, was definalty the best game out of the 3. The 2 others was just boring rushes by savior. Well executed, but boring.
Oh. Almost forgot again >.<
Great report otherwise. Thanks for neverending contibutions and feeding us with news and events from Korean Pro Scene, Mani.
Im not talking about racial imbalance, I am talking about map imbalance. This map is unbalanced because terran does not need to take the risk of expanding outside their island to win, but both protoss and zerg do. Combine that with the ease of their fast expansion, and I think that this map is an easy map for terran.
Bifrost didnt do anything other than send dropships about. He did not have to take any kind of gamble, and stared at the same quater of the screen all game long.
As for Savior's "boring" rushes, well I consider them builds that counter the FE arrogance of terrans these days, who feel that they can expand behind one rax, one rine, and a placed depot. Boring it may be, it is savior destroying their ability to use those builds vs him in the future, which is extremely valuable.
First of all. Maybe the maps isnt imbalance at all. Maybe Protoss and Zerg need to learn how to play and adapt on them? Sorry, but I don't buy that you can scream Imbalance about one thing and not about the other. Hypocracy ftw! Also it is quite clear that, at that level they are playing, it is just a matter of adapting and learning the map. Use it to ones advantage. Unless you listen to the Pro Zergs that say that ZvP is easy, and the Pro Tosses that say it's imbalance. Maybe, just maaaaaaaaybe they know what they are talking about. Never heard anything from them about the maps tho. Except that, apparently, Longinus is also a Zerg-killing map. [ sarcasm] OMG! Maps where Zerg aren't invincible. Must be imbalanced maps. Clearly. [ /sarcasm]
I know there are maps that favours some races at times, but don't draw the imbalance card that easy. This is a competition far above most of our level and they have decided to include that map in their map pool.
Bifrost sent those dropships well tho, and as I said. If savior could held off for just a tad longer, it might been a win. Don't know how much money Bifrost or saviour had in the bank 'tho.
I can still think the rushgames were boring right? I never said it was "BM" or "cheating". I just said it was boring to watch. I also said it was well executed by savior. Just my personal opinion of 2 boring games to watch. Not a diss to you who uploaded the games at all either. In the end, saviour did what he thought he needed to do to win and he succeded. Good for him.
Nice reports Mani. I'm really impressed that both Bisu and Savior were able to win a bo3 against Terran's that got a free win from desert fox. Good for them.
On January 27 2007 04:43 psychosis wrote: "This game showed what we all knew about Desert Fox to begin with. Terran can simply sit in their base and macro, while their zerg and protoss opponents can throw every creative angle at them but stil lose."
That was cute. What is it zergs usually say to tosses who complain? Learn to play? Adapt? :p
And it was not like Bifrost just sat there doing nothing.
Was just a general statement in regards to how zergs, and others, always say "stfu and learn to play" when someone mention anything that can be transalated to "PvZ imba". But they, the zergs, love to complain about how air maps are "anti-zerg". Maybe the same mentallity is valid there as well? "STFU and learn to play".
And I disagree with your view of the game. Savior didn't throw all he had at Bifrost. He did a couple of fast lurker drops but after that it was Bifrost that constantly attacked and savior defending. He did that defending quite well I thought. Scourged quite a lot of Dropships. If he had held for a tad longer the outcome could have been win for him. Bifrost was running out of recourses. Savior never got to hive tech 'tho. This game, game 2, was definalty the best game out of the 3. The 2 others was just boring rushes by savior. Well executed, but boring.
Oh. Almost forgot again >.<
Great report otherwise. Thanks for neverending contibutions and feeding us with news and events from Korean Pro Scene, Mani.
Im not talking about racial imbalance, I am talking about map imbalance. This map is unbalanced because terran does not need to take the risk of expanding outside their island to win, but both protoss and zerg do. Combine that with the ease of their fast expansion, and I think that this map is an easy map for terran.
Bifrost didnt do anything other than send dropships about. He did not have to take any kind of gamble, and stared at the same quater of the screen all game long.
As for Savior's "boring" rushes, well I consider them builds that counter the FE arrogance of terrans these days, who feel that they can expand behind one rax, one rine, and a placed depot. Boring it may be, it is savior destroying their ability to use those builds vs him in the future, which is extremely valuable.
First of all. Maybe the maps isnt imbalance at all. Maybe Protoss and Zerg need to learn how to play and adapt on them? Sorry, but I don't buy that you can scream Imbalance about one thing and not about the other. Hypocracy ftw! Also it is quite clear that, at that level they are playing, it is just a matter of adapting and learning the map. Use it to ones advantage. Unless you listen to the Pro Zergs that say that ZvP is easy, and the Pro Tosses that say it's imbalance. Maybe, just maaaaaaaaybe they know what they are talking about. Never heard anything from them about the maps tho. Except that, apparently, Longinus is also a Zerg-killing map. [ sarcasm] OMG! Maps where Zerg aren't invincible. Must be imbalanced maps. Clearly. [ /sarcasm]
I know there are maps that favours some races at times, but don't draw the imbalance card that easy. This is a competition far above most of our level and they have decided to include that map in their map pool.
Bifrost sent those dropships well tho, and as I said. If savior could held off for just a tad longer, it might been a win. Don't know how much money Bifrost or saviour had in the bank 'tho.
I can still think the rushgames were boring right? I never said it was "BM" or "cheating". I just said it was boring to watch. I also said it was well executed by savior. Just my personal opinion of 2 boring games to watch. Not a diss to you who uploaded the games at all either. In the end, saviour did what he thought he needed to do to win and he succeded. Good for him.
Who are the zerg players who say "stfu, learn to adapt" when protoss screams pvz is imbalance? I am a z player and consider zvp imbalanced (in favor of the zerg). Then there are several good protosses on this site who say pvz is balanced, so it is the protoss players telling the other ones to stfu.
Anyway, there is a huge difference between racial imbalance and map imbalance. I thought it was pretty clear that this map favors T in tvz, but I guess you don't think so. Those cliffs that the bifrost exploited won him the game. Even when savior defended the drops, he barely won with a much bigger army, while his army and economy slowly deteriorated. What do you suggest the zerg do to "adapt" to this? Park his units at the cliff of each of his expands with scourges waiting around the terran base? He had about 5 bases that game, so now his army is split into 5 little groups vs 1 big terran drop, which is inevitable because the valks will clear most of the scourges up.
Sometimes a map is just too imbalanced for a zerg to adapt. Remember Paradox? Do you think zerg could have somehow overcome that hell?
I'm not necessarily saying Desert Fox is the next Paradox, but it seems pretty damn close at this point.
On January 27 2007 04:43 psychosis wrote: "This game showed what we all knew about Desert Fox to begin with. Terran can simply sit in their base and macro, while their zerg and protoss opponents can throw every creative angle at them but stil lose."
That was cute. What is it zergs usually say to tosses who complain? Learn to play? Adapt? :p
And it was not like Bifrost just sat there doing nothing.
And he savior had like 4-5 bases using everything but hive tech and all the guydid was macro dropship mnm valk and drop his main gg.
Oh come on. You can't say sAviOr is aggressive every game either. Vs Rainbow and vs Reach he played these defensive sunken/spore/lurker strategies while toss attacked with every angle, even with recall, but still couldn't win. It's so boring to watch. I will laugh when someone finds a definitive counter to savior-style.
the map is imbalanced. obviously players are going to have to adapt, im not arguing that, but that map is imbalanced, making it easier for terran to win vs different races.
Im not even sure what you are arging or why. All I said is that the map is imbalanced. You haven't explained why this isnt the case except for saying that the tournament is above me in skill level. Well, I have been watching pro sc long enough to know when a map is imbalanced or not. This one is, for reasons I have already stated.
On January 27 2007 04:43 psychosis wrote: "This game showed what we all knew about Desert Fox to begin with. Terran can simply sit in their base and macro, while their zerg and protoss opponents can throw every creative angle at them but stil lose."
That was cute. What is it zergs usually say to tosses who complain? Learn to play? Adapt? :p
And it was not like Bifrost just sat there doing nothing.
And he savior had like 4-5 bases using everything but hive tech and all the guydid was macro dropship mnm valk and drop his main gg.
Oh come on. You can't say sAviOr is aggressive every game either. Vs Rainbow and vs Reach he played these defensive sunken/spore/lurker strategies while toss attacked with every angle, even with recall, but still couldn't win. It's so boring to watch. I will laugh when someone finds a definitive counter to savior-style.
Kill him right before he gains momentum and lurker/spire tech. Game 2 Nal_ra vs savior finals. Proved it thoroughly imo.
map imbalance in the current season is very controversial among korean fans and general opinion in korea is that at least MBCgame does not want to make ZvsZ final once more.. but at least zergman and savior are well adapting to this harsh environment and i'm happy about it.
EPT
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