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Live2Win
United States6473 Posts
yes, I consider MSL and OSL the same level. I see on reason why they should be considered a different level. It's like the 4 Grand Slams in tennis. They both have a off-line quali, a minor league, and a major league.
Of course, in Korea, like WhatisProtoss said, Starleague refers to OSL, as OGN originally came up with the name "Starleague". Remember, MBC's orginial name for it was KPGA Tour, and since that wasn't working too well they stole the name and called it MBCGame Starleague.
So, Starleague is SUPPOSE to refer to OSL only, and MSL is called MSL. (interestingly enough, the MSL commentators refer to OSL as "the other league" they NEVER say OSL or OGN Starleague, while they call themselves MSL, and OSL calls themselves "Starleague")
But like I said, I, and most foreigners, refer to any major league as a starleague.
I wouldn't agree with Whatisprotoss's comment about MSL being a minor league though. The OSL is considered higher because of the prize-money difference, but I think they give the same amount points? I'm not too sure about that.
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Baltimore, USA21753 Posts
On January 23 2007 13:49 Live2Win wrote:
So, Starleague is SUPPOSE to refer to OSL only, and MSL is called MSL. (interestingly enough, the MSL commentators refer to OSL as "the other league" they NEVER say OSL or OGN Starleague, while they call themselves MSL, and OSL calls themselves "Starleague")
Really? That's very interesting actually... I've always wondered how the OGN vs MBC relationship panned out. I mean, do they see themselves as competitors/rivals, and if they do, do they try to refrain from mentioning each other, ever, or do they mention each other but boost how they're better/more exciting, etc. like the old WCW vs WWF thing years ago? (this doesn't seem likely given the culture, but I don't know how modern/westernized the gaming channels are)... or do they work together for the greater good of the game? I seem to recall the proleague was/is sponsored by both yes? Or was that some special joint effort thing from a year or two ago?
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Starleague is worth more points than MSL, since it is a higher league than MSL. Winning it is more prestigious.
Obviously MSL does not want to lose out to the original Starleague and refers to OSL as the "other starleague," even though they clearly are the lesser of the two.
People have just misunderstood this over and over again. OGN Starleague is on a higher level than MSL. There IS no terminology error between the two, as Orome has said. There is no misconception. There IS a correct version. Just because Live2Win called MSL a "Starleague" means that it actually is a Starleague??
On January 23 2007 13:49 Live2Win wrote:
The OSL is considered higher because of the prize-money difference, but I think they give the same amount points? I'm not too sure about that.
No, for a little while, MSL upped their prize money and it was higher than Starleague's prize money for a season.
The prize money breakdown over the years:
Starleague (From 2001 to 2006):
1st: 20,000,000
2nd: 10,000,000
Shinhan Starleague 1 (April 2006 - June 2006)
1st: 40,000,000
2nd: 20,000,000
Compared to MSL:
CYON MSL (October 2005 - January 2006)
1st: 25,000,000
2nd: 10,000,000
Pringles MSL (April 2006 - July 2006)
1st: 30,000,000
My final say on the matter, since this topic keeps coming up over and over again:
1) Prize money does not make one better than the other. Prize money has always varied over the years.
2) Popularity does not make one better than the other.
3) Prestige and KESPA value makes the difference between the two.
4) OSL is the original starleague.
5) OSL is of heavier KESPA value.
6) OnGameNet holds higher authority in Starcraft broadcasting than MBCGame.
7) OGN Starleague > MSL.
OGN vs. MBCGame
See how the names work? It isn't even "OSL". It is "Starleague." Because it is the only Starleague. MSL is a mere copy of them.
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Oh sweet, prize money. =P
As for me, I compare OSL and MSL by how many people they have in their audience, how much audience they have in their stadium, how many big name players they have on stage, and how many fangirls raving over those big name players on stage from the audience.
Not quite accurate, but good enough for me. =)
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You misunderstand me. There is a terminology error, because to me, Starleague is a random name of a tournament, not an indicator of its importance. Therefore both MSL and OSL are Starleagues, because they hold Starleague in their name.
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Tell me another Starcraft tournament that contains the phrase "Starleague" in it's name, Orome.
It is registered by OnGameNet.
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It belongs to both Ongamenet and MBC. To me that is, and I think to most non-korean people.
We're getting nowhere here, let's just drop it? You can't seperate the word Starleague from its original meaning of being Ongamenet's big league, that's fine.
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That is because many people have misunderstood the relationship between MBC and OGN. I see this mistake many times and want to clear it up. People think OSL and MSL are on the same level when they are not.
Okay, no more on this matter.
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I am weak, I can't stop myself from answering. I'm still not sure you understand what I'm saying.
OSL and MSL aren't on the same level, but calling both Starleagues isn't necessarily putting them on the same level. The custom on Teamliquid is to call both Starleagues, and we should stick to it.
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Braavos36066 Posts
is it just me or does it seem like the OSL's maps are a lot more imba than MSL's every time?
also, the OSL does carry with it a certain mystique or atmosphere that the MSL can't duplicate, but i don't really think the difference is that large =P
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Ongamenet seem to value the uniqueness of a map more than its balance...
What was the saying? "The good win MSL, the destined win OSL" or something like that.
Yeah, OSL has much more history and atmosphere, but it doesn't actually produce better games.
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OSL usually is more interesting than MSL, which has had lower ratings because it is "boring".
(That's partially the fault of the commentators too).
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United States20591 Posts
OGN is much more professionalized and streamlined. I mean, people with an MSL title are nowhere near as lauded as one with an OSL title. MSL runners up - who cares, really? Nobody cared much for MSL after rA lost. Silver? wtf? I mean his hydralisk control is unparalleled, sure, but he can't do anything else.
OGN treats its runner ups better, though most runner-ups in OSL have made their name already by winning before.
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Osaka25915 Posts
They are both starleagues to the TL crowd, which is all that matters here.
MSL has a lower profile than the OSL, but they are both considered major tournaments. Yes one has more prestige than the other, but imo winning either requires the same skill. The OSL is worth more points only because MBC is made up of retards that dont stick to their guns.
Lastly WiP, you said the proleague was a result of the OSL when in fact the proleague is a creation of kespa that both mbc and ogn pay into. It was NOT an OGN creation.
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Germany16600 Posts
It is a joint effort between OGN and MBC yes, but they each had their own teamleague before they made a joint one. The teamleague OGN had before they started the Sky Proleague with MBC was also called Sky Proleague! And it was basically the same format, except that they used bo3 during the season (2x 1v1, 1x 2v2) instead of bo5 and bo5 during the playoffs (3x 1v1, 2x 2v2) instead of bo7, while the MBC teamleague was bo7 with 1v1 only, a player stayed until he lost a game, so one player could 4-0 the opposing team - called all kill.
So the joint OGN / MBC Proleague = the old OGN Proleague, just with more games.
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WCS![[image loading]](http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b148/tenis_hotshot/Starleagues.gif)
