In the past 17 GSTL games, the only player to win has been a zerg. If a zerg has lost, it has been to another zerg. Say what you want about the reactored hellion build that has been effectively removed from sensical build orders, it at least gave zerg something to think about in regards to positioning and defense. Most of the zergs I play on the ladder (I am a 1200 point rank 1 masters) do not even bother to get zerglings in the beginning of the game, opting instead for standard 4 queens and maybe 1 spine crawler. You can't stop overlords from getting into key positions early game (cloud kingdom and korhal compound for example) and without even drone scouting, they can see you are going for a macro game. Even when I build a bunker and put 2 marines in it, they don't even make zerglings. It's pretty ridiculous to see how the queen buff and overlord speed buff have changed the game. I didn't think it would be that big of a deal at first, but the metagame is proving me wrong. The combination of the additional defense queens provide and the ease of which they can scout your builds makes even average zerg players seem incredibly difficult to beat.

Wildmoon

Thailand4189 Posts

June 06 2012 04:23 GMT

#43

I am still fucking pissed that I didn't even get a chance to see real macro game from MVP yesterday. Symbol just hit the perfect timing and killed him. I don't wanna see more lose from terran especially from someone like MKP,MMA,MVP.

OPL3SA2

United States378 Posts

June 06 2012 04:31 GMT

#44

I should probably add that late game TvZ has not changed significantly since they removed ghosts from sensical build orders (which was devastating). Therefore terrans are opting to go to the late game with their build orders. This in short has allows zergs like TSL_Symbol to punish them for thinking they can be even the least bit greedy with their build orders. We saw 3 top level terrans, IMMvP included, being punished for standard one rax expand builds with roach play that, to be honest, was not even all in by any means. After the first attack was barely cleaned up by pulling all scvs, Symbol was on 153 supply and his third base was not only up but fully saturated.

Perhaps IMMvP should stick with what won him his last code S tournament - 2 rax cheesy all ins. It's the only thing terrans can and should to do reverse the current trend of the metagame. Then again, what are marines going to do to the 4 queen build? The 4 queen gasless build used to be punished quite well with hellion run bys unless the zerg out microed the attacking hellions. Now they (i'm kind of laughing in frustration) just a-move with 4 queens and don't even TOUCH the drones that are mining. Why would you? You'll only line them up! It's the perfect, easiest defense that requires no positioning or micro whatsoever!!

OPL3SA2

United States378 Posts

June 06 2012 04:36 GMT

#45

I was upset that MVP won the last code S finals for two reasons. First and foremost was that people would use it as evidence that terran are fine in the TVP matchup. Secondly I was upset in the fashion he did it, pulling all his scvs on multiple occasions. Tastosis did their best and I applaud them for trying to explain to the community that this type of play could and should be mixed in with regular build orders. But it does nothing to further the discussion of the balance issues that I believe can be summed up by saying that terran can only win if they combine superior skill with a little bit of luck, whereas with zerg and protoss they can win with either (as it should be)

elwoodng

Singapore438 Posts

June 06 2012 05:00 GMT

#46

And I was so happy that I get to see MC in the GSTL. But turns out that he might not even get the chance to play this season. D:

On June 06 2012 13:36 OPL3SA2 wrote:
I was upset that MVP won the last code S finals.

I can assure you that Protosses are just as upset. :p

OkStyX

Canada1199 Posts

June 06 2012 05:12 GMT

#47

On June 06 2012 13:23 OPL3SA2 wrote:
In the past 17 GSTL games, the only player to win has been a zerg. If a zerg has lost, it has been to another zerg. Say what you want about the reactored hellion build that has been effectively removed from sensical build orders, it at least gave zerg something to think about in regards to positioning and defense. Most of the zergs I play on the ladder (I am a 1200 point rank 1 masters) do not even bother to get zerglings in the beginning of the game, opting instead for standard 4 queens and maybe 1 spine crawler. You can't stop overlords from getting into key positions early game (cloud kingdom and korhal compound for example) and without even drone scouting, they can see you are going for a macro game. Even when I build a bunker and put 2 marines in it, they don't even make zerglings. It's pretty ridiculous to see how the queen buff and overlord speed buff have changed the game. I didn't think it would be that big of a deal at first, but the metagame is proving me wrong. The combination of the additional defense queens provide and the ease of which they can scout your builds makes even average zerg players seem incredibly difficult to beat.

I think the 50 energy queen would of been fine but terrans were bitching to much ( looking at ou kawaii ) 50 energy would allow Terrans to use hellions still

OPL3SA2

United States378 Posts

June 06 2012 06:08 GMT

#48

On June 06 2012 14:12 ShakAttaK wrote:

Show nested quote +

I think the 50 energy queen would of been fine but terrans were bitching to much ( looking at ou kawaii ) 50 energy would allow Terrans to use hellions still

You're right. Initially I thought the 50 queen energy was too much. In reality, blizzard decided that was too little and buffed queen's attack range so acutely that probes and scvs can't even get by one to scout. I mean seriously, queens stop scouting probes better than marines which have to studder step in the correct direction to deny a scout. With a queen's new range, they can kill scouting probes even if they are idle. It's ridiculous compared to how I initially thought it would turn out

Douillos

France3195 Posts

June 06 2012 06:12 GMT

#49

Such a good series.Symbol is a beast, even though I think IM should have send seed out instead of yoda... Terrans right now arent a good bet!

Hope IM gets through for a rematch!

And great write up btw!

OPL3SA2

United States378 Posts

June 06 2012 06:12 GMT

#50

On June 06 2012 14:00 elwoodng wrote:
And I was so happy that I get to see MC in the GSTL. But turns out that he might not even get the chance to play this season. D:

Show nested quote +

I can assure you that Protosses are just as upset. :p

They were probably jumping with joy. They gained additional empirical evidence to avoid the nerf hammer for yet another ladder season

Die4Ever

United States17744 Posts

June 06 2012 07:21 GMT

#51

ahhh I just watched the VODs...I can't believe NesTea lost that game to Symbol

partysnatcher

156 Posts

June 06 2012 07:22 GMT

#52

GSTL is a dark horse game, where people play their ladder builds and not their tourney builds, and everything is in general pretty unpredictable. I don't think you can expect players like Moon to have similar runs again here, unfortunately. In the same vein, I think Oz will do better.

I think 5-3 is a good bet.

Moon will be put on later this time (3rd?), and I think he will not win his, unfortunately. *crossing my fingers that I'm wrong*

Yngvi

Netherlands70 Posts

June 06 2012 07:30 GMT

#53

hmmmm...any1 up for a bet? 1:100 Zergs win everything...(I've got no clue how betting works)

TommyP

United States6231 Posts

June 06 2012 07:30 GMT

#54

Its so hard to still up until 5 am to watch!! I wish gom would change their hours, but I predict a 5-2 IM victory with both fnatic wins coming from oz.

TommyP

United States6231 Posts

June 06 2012 07:31 GMT

#55

On June 06 2012 16:22 partysnatcher wrote:
GSTL is a dark horse game, where people play their ladder builds and not their tourney builds, and everything is in general pretty unpredictable. I don't think you can expect players like Moon to have similar runs again here, unfortunately. In the same vein, I think Oz will do better.

I think 5-3 is a good bet.

Moon will be put on later this time (3rd?), and I think he will not win his, unfortunately. *crossing my fingers that I'm wrong*

Is Moon the WC3 player?

TommyP

United States6231 Posts

June 06 2012 07:34 GMT

#56

On June 06 2012 11:35 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
WOW HOLY SHIT that is fucking amazing! i forgot it's bo9, so this is even harder than back when it was bo7!

also, wow losira o.o hes good again? xD nice to see I guess

sad that nestea lost, but nestea is like the only IM player i like

pretty sure IM can beat fnatic though... but who knows maybe they'll lose ;O

edit: wow, i forgot that LG IM has MC as well xD though I guess his pvz isn't so good and he doesn't dominate like he did back then

IM has strong individual players (MVP and nestea) but as a team they seem to do pretty bad in GSTLs, at least when you take into account how strong MVP and Nestea are ;O

MC isnt playing, but just so you know he has the best PvZ in the world, hands down.