MC/ DRG went pretty much as expected. Both players played so well, perhaps MC should have gone for another 2base timing on the 4th game but oh well.
MMA/ MVP was close, MVP loses because he does not have the foresight to see (basically cheese in 2 games) from MMA. It's really stupid of him, if he survives the early game we KNOW he is the best TvT player in the world. He should therefore KNOW that even a player of MMA's caliber will realise the best chance to beat him is cheese. He prepared wrong IMO, it would have been better to study Polt's style vs. MMA than to try orthadox, solid TvT play. No-one wants to face MVP in a straight up TvT, MMA can only eek out wins because MVP makes a few occasional mistakes. MVP is a master of the matchup - MMA is more an opportunist. Credit to MMA for managing to win.
Game 1: literally 2 wrong manoeuvres (going the wrong way back, then losing those 3 seige tanks), apart from that he outclassed MMA Game 2: should have bunkered, it was the wrong decision to try and trap the bio ball of MMA, then he slightly messes up an SCV surround, then he does not replace SCVs. Do any one of those differently, it was his game to win. Game 3: Again, he should have had the foresight to see cheese coming. Bunker = win yet again, going for an earlier seige is instant win, scouting the 2rax is an instant win (he had completely the wrong reaction when he saw 1gas/ 1rax reactor). In fact, anything but Banshee into CC or an early drop play is a build order win. /sigh
Disappointing from MVP, it seems he should have walked over MMA, but a few silly key mistakes and the lack of foresight to see cheese screwed him over. He lost the series to himself. Perhaps he was slightly shaken by who he was facing, but I know he'll be kicking himself for that defeat. Congrats to MMA for the win though.
The finals should be really good though, interesting matchup for sure, both finalists have shown some great skills.
MC/ DRG went pretty much as expected. Both players played so well, perhaps MC should have gone for another 2base timing on the 4th game but oh well.
MMA/ MVP was close, MVP loses because he does not have the foresight to see (basically cheese in 2 games) from MMA. It's really stupid of him, if he survives the early game we KNOW he is the best TvT player in the world. He should therefore KNOW that even a player of MMA's caliber will realise the best chance to beat him is cheese. He prepared wrong IMO, it would have been better to study Polt's style vs. MMA than to try orthadox, solid TvT play. No-one wants to face MVP in a straight up TvT, MMA can only eek out wins because MVP makes a few occasional mistakes. MVP is a master of the matchup - MMA is more an opportunist. Credit to MMA for managing to win.
Game 1: literally 2 wrong manoeuvres (going the wrong way back, then losing those 3 seige tanks), apart from that he outclassed MMA Game 2: should have bunkered, it was the wrong decision to try and trap the bio ball of MMA, then he slightly messes up an SCV surround, then he does not replace SCVs. Do any one of those differently, it was his game to win. Game 3: Again, he should have had the foresight to see cheese coming. Bunker = win yet again, going for an earlier seige is instant win, scouting the 2rax is an instant win (he had completely the wrong reaction when he saw 1gas/ 1rax reactor). In fact, anything but Banshee into CC or an early drop play is a build order win. /sigh
Disappointing from MVP, it seems he should have walked over MMA, but a few silly key mistakes and the lack of foresight to see cheese screwed him over. He lost the series to himself. Perhaps he was slightly shaken by who he was facing, but I know he'll be kicking himself for that defeat. Congrats to MMA for the win though.
The finals should be really good though, interesting matchup for sure, both finalists have shown some great skills.
WTF are you talking about? MMA doesn't need to rely on cheese to beat MVP and he certainly can stand toe to toe late game against MVP , just look at their past games. They both have beaten each other with cheese, mech, and bio. Yes, MMA did beat MVP with mech of his own before. That's what's great aboout these guys, they have so many different builds and strategies they can use and they're so evenly matched.
I'm really gonna be rooting for the winner of DRG/MC. But I really can't decide which one to root for during their next match. I want both of them to do really well.
On December 15 2011 22:49 blamekilly wrote:WTF are you talking about? MMA doesn't need to rely on cheese to beat MVP and he certainly can stand toe to toe late game against MVP , just look at their past games. They both have beaten each other with cheese, mech, and bio. Yes, MMA did beat MVP with mech of his own before. That's what's great aboout these guys, they have so many different builds and strategies they can use and they're so evenly matched.
I did not say MMA needs to rely on cheese. I said MVP should realise that the vast majority of his opponents who face him in this sort of format are going to prepare various early aggression builds. That should be obvious to him (the same goes for someone like Idra).
It's no secret that MVP is the quintessential macro terran, so if MMA or polt or whoever are going to prepare, they are going to prepare builds that play to their strengths (i.e. not 15+min games with MVP). MVP should have realised MMA was going to play aggressive and prepared more solid openers and openers that would hard counter 1base all-ins. What did we see? We saw that both polt and MMA played to avoid any long games (mostly).
MVP's preparation and understanding of the situation was awful. MMA prepared better. MVP made one or two "in-game" mistakes (as opposed to strategies/ plans he will have decided beforehand) throughout the series and paid the price. I think MMA deserves the win, but I'm pointing out that MVP scored an own-goal by not reading this correctly.
Having just finished the series I have to say that MMA really has MVP's number down. Not only in terms of strategies, but also his tactical decisions seem really spot on in order to push and pull MVP into making mistakes.
MC/ DRG went pretty much as expected. Both players played so well, perhaps MC should have gone for another 2base timing on the 4th game but oh well.
MMA/ MVP was close, MVP loses because he does not have the foresight to see (basically cheese in 2 games) from MMA. It's really stupid of him, if he survives the early game we KNOW he is the best TvT player in the world. He should therefore KNOW that even a player of MMA's caliber will realise the best chance to beat him is cheese. He prepared wrong IMO, it would have been better to study Polt's style vs. MMA than to try orthadox, solid TvT play. No-one wants to face MVP in a straight up TvT, MMA can only eek out wins because MVP makes a few occasional mistakes. MVP is a master of the matchup - MMA is more an opportunist. Credit to MMA for managing to win.
Game 1: literally 2 wrong manoeuvres (going the wrong way back, then losing those 3 seige tanks), apart from that he outclassed MMA Game 2: should have bunkered, it was the wrong decision to try and trap the bio ball of MMA, then he slightly messes up an SCV surround, then he does not replace SCVs. Do any one of those differently, it was his game to win. Game 3: Again, he should have had the foresight to see cheese coming. Bunker = win yet again, going for an earlier seige is instant win, scouting the 2rax is an instant win (he had completely the wrong reaction when he saw 1gas/ 1rax reactor). In fact, anything but Banshee into CC or an early drop play is a build order win. /sigh
Disappointing from MVP, it seems he should have walked over MMA, but a few silly key mistakes and the lack of foresight to see cheese screwed him over. He lost the series to himself. Perhaps he was slightly shaken by who he was facing, but I know he'll be kicking himself for that defeat. Congrats to MMA for the win though.
The finals should be really good though, interesting matchup for sure, both finalists have shown some great skills.
Wow you must really hate mma or something because he outplayed MVP for sure. Making better decisions, bringing better builds, winning mind games are all part of being a good starcraft player. MMA clearly showed that in these categories he is superior to MVP. He may not have the superior mechanics but those are not the only things that qualify someone as the "best" TvT'er. (MMA has amazing mechanics anyways). So to say that MVP "outclassed" MMA and lost due to some stupid mistakes is a completely false and utterly ridiculous statement because MMA forced those mistakes and outclassed MVP in ways other than mechanics.
to all those who say "MMA only won cuz he cheesed!" think back to the GSL in Anaheim. guess who also won the macro games? yeah MMA. its noteworthy that the only game MVP took off of MMA that series was a marine-tank cheese against a 1-rax expand. think about that.
On December 16 2011 05:45 MasterKang wrote:Wow you must really hate mma or something because he outplayed MVP for sure. Making better decisions, bringing better builds, winning mind games are all part of being a good starcraft player. MMA clearly showed that in these categories he is superior to MVP. He may not have the superior mechanics but those are not the only things that qualify someone as the "best" TvT'er. (MMA has amazing mechanics anyways). So to say that MVP "outclassed" MMA and lost due to some stupid mistakes is a completely false and utterly ridiculous statement because MMA forced those mistakes and outclassed MVP in ways other than mechanics.
I'm confused as to where I've said I hate MMA, I've only praised him for good his preparation. He brought builds that played to his strengths and MVP's weaknesses. It's perhaps wrong to classify what MMA did as straight cheese (it wasn't , more aggression. And aggression is the correct course of action against someone known to play greedy and cut a few corners. I haven't said MMA is bad at TvT, but he has not had the consistent domination of the matchup that MVP has enjoyed this year. MMA is ahead in their head-to-heads (in major tournaments at least), but MVP has a much higher vs. Terran percentage win overall. The predictions reflected this (both the OP and the poll on GOMTV).
The main crux of my post was to outline how disappointing MVP's preparation was, (note: the gsl observer mainly followed MVP) but for MVP to bring builds that are obviously flawed, and to decide not to play safe (even in the last game) and to play the matchup as if he is against terran and not one player specifically is inexcusable. MVP didn't mess up in terms of mechanics, but he just seemed to choke or looked out of his depth. Maybe he does "fear" MMA, or he was nervous, but it didn't look like the MVP who is known for having 300 builds and selecting the best one every time, quite the opposite in fact.
I would say MVP is still a wizard at understanding how to engage in TvT. Coming back from a ~50 supply deficit with less bases in game one, (only to mess it up with a horrendous move error) refusing to die in game 2 despite being at a disadvantage the moment he misread the all-in, and again in game 3. I think MMA is to be praised for winning, but the fact is that MMA's builds were axiomatically so much better suited than MVP's let him win. The better player won in this case, obviously overall MMA prepared and played better, but I just simply cannot fathom what was going through MVP's mind in these games. I think the main reason he lost was brought upon him by himself. MVP's build just did not make any sense at all, MMA dictated the tempo of play of every game and the series (true indication of talent), but MVP hardly made any impression at all, it was shocking honestly. Sorry if that came across as anti-MMA, I don't mean to belittle his win at all, I'm just curious about what went on with MVP.
But anyway, I'm looking forward to MMA/ DRG, maybe the two greatest TvZ'ers in the world atm, and they both deserve to win imo.
MC/ DRG went pretty much as expected. Both players played so well, perhaps MC should have gone for another 2base timing on the 4th game but oh well.
MMA/ MVP was close, MVP loses because he does not have the foresight to see (basically cheese in 2 games) from MMA. It's really stupid of him, if he survives the early game we KNOW he is the best TvT player in the world. He should therefore KNOW that even a player of MMA's caliber will realise the best chance to beat him is cheese. He prepared wrong IMO, it would have been better to study Polt's style vs. MMA than to try orthadox, solid TvT play. No-one wants to face MVP in a straight up TvT, MMA can only eek out wins because MVP makes a few occasional mistakes. MVP is a master of the matchup - MMA is more an opportunist. Credit to MMA for managing to win.
Game 1: literally 2 wrong manoeuvres (going the wrong way back, then losing those 3 seige tanks), apart from that he outclassed MMA Game 2: should have bunkered, it was the wrong decision to try and trap the bio ball of MMA, then he slightly messes up an SCV surround, then he does not replace SCVs. Do any one of those differently, it was his game to win. Game 3: Again, he should have had the foresight to see cheese coming. Bunker = win yet again, going for an earlier seige is instant win, scouting the 2rax is an instant win (he had completely the wrong reaction when he saw 1gas/ 1rax reactor). In fact, anything but Banshee into CC or an early drop play is a build order win. /sigh
Disappointing from MVP, it seems he should have walked over MMA, but a few silly key mistakes and the lack of foresight to see cheese screwed him over. He lost the series to himself. Perhaps he was slightly shaken by who he was facing, but I know he'll be kicking himself for that defeat. Congrats to MMA for the win though.
The finals should be really good though, interesting matchup for sure, both finalists have shown some great skills.
WTF are you talking about? MMA doesn't need to rely on cheese to beat MVP and he certainly can stand toe to toe late game against MVP , just look at their past games. They both have beaten each other with cheese, mech, and bio. Yes, MMA did beat MVP with mech of his own before. That's what's great aboout these guys, they have so many different builds and strategies they can use and they're so evenly matched.
Whilst I do agree MVP is better in the late game, MMA is not far off, and it is still tough to decide who would win. He chose great opportunities in those games, but if they were macro games it would have been close as well
EPT
