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good read, even tho im not sure about these predictions. i see MC up top
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DongRaeGu isn't cute enough to be the Leta of SC2. :p
Another tournament for MVP to win, ah well. Nice Liquipedia link!
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On December 12 2011 10:40 mbr2321 wrote:
I don't think you were very fair to Stephano. Who knows? He's probably been preparing incredibly hard for this match, and there are some really awesome nydus/muta plays Zerg can do on Shak.
Maybe he has been preparing, he might be able to beat Hero or DRG... But beating MVP on shakuras?! It's going to be a long while yet before any zerg manages that feat.
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Wow, HerO wins group? Those are some pretty ambitious predictions. Definitely not out of the question though.
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On December 12 2011 11:54 dacimvrl wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2011 11:47 mordk wrote:On December 12 2011 11:43 cavalier117 wrote:On December 12 2011 11:33 mordk wrote:On December 12 2011 11:28 cavalier117 wrote:On December 12 2011 11:26 Olinimm wrote:On December 12 2011 11:24 cavalier117 wrote:On December 12 2011 11:22 zyzq wrote:On December 12 2011 11:18 monXikk wrote:
I think PuMa is arguably the current best Terran player in the world.
GL to Stephano! what kind of troll is this it makes sense by team liquid logic, he won one tournament, and got second in another big one in the course of one week. therefore he must be the best player of his respective race! (see where im going with this) And he also has no success in GSL. He's the whole package! on a serious note though, he has like the 4th highest winnings of any player with no GSL wins lol (MVP, Nestea, and MC are the only ones beating him) no, this doesnt mean i think he's the best terran, however its hard to say that him not having GSL results matters when he's making more money than the overwhelming majority of them Money =/= performance Particularly when most of his money comes from a very small amount of wins, and in the foreigner scene. Even if GSL had 1/10 of the prize money, and it had the same players, winning the GSL would be much more important and prestigious than winning any of Puma's tourneys. On December 12 2011 11:32 frogrubdown wrote:On December 12 2011 11:26 Olinimm wrote:On December 12 2011 11:24 cavalier117 wrote:On December 12 2011 11:22 zyzq wrote:On December 12 2011 11:18 monXikk wrote:
I think PuMa is arguably the current best Terran player in the world.
GL to Stephano! what kind of troll is this it makes sense by team liquid logic, he won one tournament, and got second in another big one in the course of one week. therefore he must be the best player of his respective race! (see where im going with this) And he also has no success in GSL. He's the whole package! Although Hero probably isn't the best protoss player right now, this really isn't a fair comparison. Terran has an undisputed best player who happens to also be the undisputed best player of any race in the world by a wide margin. Protoss on the other hand has been notoriously leaderless since MC's fall. The point is that it's a lot easier to be in contention for best Protoss player in the world than it is to be in contention for best Terran player right now. edit: spelling They're discussing Puma, not HerO it started as a Hero discussion... albeit a sarcastic one. noone is seriously arguing performance.... but discounting money from the equation is seriously flawed... at the end of the year, im pretty sure most pros would rather by PuMA with over 100k in winnings than Clide with nothing, etc etc normally i would agree with your comment of "most of his money came from only a couple tournaments" however, nobody seems to hold Stephano or Polt(btw ALL of polt's money came from a single tournament, 95,000 of his total 110,000 in one tournament) and many others to that same principle sooooo why single out players like PuMa? Polt has shown a rather consistent skill level throughout half this year (more, probably) in the GSL, so that's why he's considered good. He's been able to stay and compete in Code S for a long time now. In Stephano's case, his success is just overblown, just like PuMa's. I wouldn't call 2 NASLs overblown..
It was more like 1 NASL and beating HerO.
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Man he doesn't think much of Stephano. I'm going to have to disagree with him on multiple fronts. Stephano is definitely going to take out Hero and I've seen him beat DRG on ladder...
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To be honest, I think that picking HerO over Mvp seems a little bit crazy. Yes, Mvp's TvP is his weakest match-up, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's bad. Mvp is Mvp, he's a monster, and I'll be really surprised to see if he loses to anybody in this group. Maybe MC if MC plays the MC style (god I just used his name far too much) and hits some really nice timings. Mvp seems to always play for the macro-game, and a well executed 3 Gate Void Ray or 6 Gate might just be what it takes to take him down, and--not to dis HerO--but MC's timing attacks are insane.
On December 12 2011 10:40 mbr2321 wrote:
I don't think you were very fair to Stephano. Who knows? He's probably been preparing incredibly hard for this match, and there are some really awesome nydus/muta plays Zerg can do on Shak.
What do you think the other four players have been doing?
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Stephano is being way way way underestimated.
He's going to win this tournament in unbelievable fashion.
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I'll be happy as long as stephano doesn't advance.
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On December 12 2011 12:18 VirgilSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2011 11:54 dacimvrl wrote:On December 12 2011 11:47 mordk wrote:On December 12 2011 11:43 cavalier117 wrote:On December 12 2011 11:33 mordk wrote:On December 12 2011 11:28 cavalier117 wrote:On December 12 2011 11:26 Olinimm wrote:On December 12 2011 11:24 cavalier117 wrote:On December 12 2011 11:22 zyzq wrote:On December 12 2011 11:18 monXikk wrote:
I think PuMa is arguably the current best Terran player in the world.
GL to Stephano! what kind of troll is this it makes sense by team liquid logic, he won one tournament, and got second in another big one in the course of one week. therefore he must be the best player of his respective race! (see where im going with this) And he also has no success in GSL. He's the whole package! on a serious note though, he has like the 4th highest winnings of any player with no GSL wins lol (MVP, Nestea, and MC are the only ones beating him) no, this doesnt mean i think he's the best terran, however its hard to say that him not having GSL results matters when he's making more money than the overwhelming majority of them Money =/= performance Particularly when most of his money comes from a very small amount of wins, and in the foreigner scene. Even if GSL had 1/10 of the prize money, and it had the same players, winning the GSL would be much more important and prestigious than winning any of Puma's tourneys. On December 12 2011 11:32 frogrubdown wrote:On December 12 2011 11:26 Olinimm wrote:On December 12 2011 11:24 cavalier117 wrote:On December 12 2011 11:22 zyzq wrote:On December 12 2011 11:18 monXikk wrote:
I think PuMa is arguably the current best Terran player in the world.
GL to Stephano! what kind of troll is this it makes sense by team liquid logic, he won one tournament, and got second in another big one in the course of one week. therefore he must be the best player of his respective race! (see where im going with this) And he also has no success in GSL. He's the whole package! Although Hero probably isn't the best protoss player right now, this really isn't a fair comparison. Terran has an undisputed best player who happens to also be the undisputed best player of any race in the world by a wide margin. Protoss on the other hand has been notoriously leaderless since MC's fall. The point is that it's a lot easier to be in contention for best Protoss player in the world than it is to be in contention for best Terran player right now. edit: spelling They're discussing Puma, not HerO it started as a Hero discussion... albeit a sarcastic one. noone is seriously arguing performance.... but discounting money from the equation is seriously flawed... at the end of the year, im pretty sure most pros would rather by PuMA with over 100k in winnings than Clide with nothing, etc etc normally i would agree with your comment of "most of his money came from only a couple tournaments" however, nobody seems to hold Stephano or Polt(btw ALL of polt's money came from a single tournament, 95,000 of his total 110,000 in one tournament) and many others to that same principle sooooo why single out players like PuMa? Polt has shown a rather consistent skill level throughout half this year (more, probably) in the GSL, so that's why he's considered good. He's been able to stay and compete in Code S for a long time now. In Stephano's case, his success is just overblown, just like PuMa's. I wouldn't call 2 NASLs overblown.. It was more like 1 NASL and beating HerO.
What are you talking about? I think that in the two NASL final events, PuMa managed to have the most difficult roads: first Ret, Squirtle, July, and MC and then Sheth, IdrA, ThorZaIN, and HerO.
Ret is one of the best foreign Zergs and one of the best macro players in the world (2-0), Squirtle is a Korean and a pretty good Protoss player from what we've seen in the team leagues (2-1). July has a Golden Mouse, GSL-semifinalist, and one of the scariest opponents (3-1). MC is a two time GSL winner, considered by many the best Protoss at the time, and had demolished everybody at NASL (4-3).
Sheth is a ridiculous ZvTer (3-2). IdrA is known for his ZvT, is one of the best macro players, and consistently is one of the top competing foreigners (3-0). ThorZaIN had been tearing up the competition up to that point without dropping a game and had claimed that his best match-up was his TvT, and given the fact that he had plenty of time before, I'm sure that he had prepared to play PuMa beforehand (4-2). HerO, who had beaten PuMa in their last finals 4-3 who had been destroying everybody recently (4-3).
I consider both of those huge achievements, don't try to downplay them.
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On December 12 2011 12:25 tkRage wrote:
Stephano is being way way way underestimated.
He's going to win this tournament in unbelievable fashion.
He may not win, but i think he will certainly do much better than this OP projected. People seem to say 1-3 and 0-4 throughout this post. That just seems like a huge underestimation of his skill.
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Vatican City State582 Posts
On December 12 2011 12:25 tkRage wrote:
Stephano is being way way way underestimated.
He's going to win this tournament in unbelievable fashion.
don't hold your breath.
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I love Liquid Hero and I really hope for him to do well, but this article overhypes him and puts upon him unrealistic expectations.
he's arguably the current best Protoss player in the world.
Careful now, let's not forget about Puzzle (GSL RO8) or Oz (GSL RO4, taking out MMA). Hero's done phenomenally well at Dreamhack and NASL, but those tournaments had very few Koreans.
Predicting that Hero will beat MVP and win the group is very unrealistic in my opinion. It can happen, but you usually risk setting yourself up for disappointment. I think a more reasonable goal for Hero is to simply make it out of the group stages.
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For those of you that know Korean, here is the link to the IMMVP's interview. It's a bit old (April 27th), but very interesting nonetheless. I wish I had the permission to translate it T.T
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Nice write-up, though I think some of your predictions are overly confident (i.e. Hero). Nevertheless, it should be an exciting tournament and I'm definitely looking forward to it.
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Stephano will do well, but I'm going to have to agree with the MVP assessment.
Not so much because MVP is better (though I do give him an edge), but because the map just favors T in the match up too much I think, especially with Stephano's style.
I just got done watching an older game of Stephano vs MMA on Shakuras and MMA abused the shit out of the platforms in the mid-area, pretty much forcing Stephano to spend tons of energy and micro dropping infested terrans on the platforms any time he tried to push, only to take out one or two tanks. Was pretty sad.
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EPT
