[MSL] Kings and Queens - Page 4

On June 10 2011 11:12 hacklebeast wrote:

I was kinda hoping for a detailed look into queen usage; when it works, and when it doesn't. But maybe you guys are just saving that for after the finals, and will use the games to highlight your points

On June 10 2011 12:32 tedster wrote:


The modern Queen "revolution" is based around the concept of a midgame lull while a Terran performs a mech switch. There is a period where mech-switching Terran goes into a turtle-esque "soft-push" as they build up tanks, establish a turret line, and build a minefield. This is roughly around the time a 4-gas zerg is getting established, and as such neither player has a great avenue of attacking for the moment.

Normally when this occurs, the Zerg player will still be on the offensive if possible, attempting to stop the Terran from building up enough tanks to render Ultra/Defiler play useless and also trying to prevent Terran from digging in with enough turrets and Goliaths in critical locations. This, however, is not really ideal for the Zerg, as they are dedicating valuable resources and time to breaking a terran line when they have not really achieved their high-tech endgame yet. Essentially, the traditional mech switch needs to be slowed BEFORE Zerg has managed to execute their gameplan, and it can be extremely hard for the Zerg to get back on track in time to have upgraded Hive units in play before the Terran stabilizes and builds a huge army of tanks. And once Terran has enough tanks, it is virtually impossible for Zerg to crack the line barring a major flank/error on the T's part.

Crazy-Hydra's Queen build seizes the timing window where Terran is performing the slow switch and Zerg is normally throwing itself against the establishing T front, and instead opts to build a quick hotkey of Queens. Zerg then abandons the "crack the egg" plan ENTIRELY, instead opting to rapidly tech and drone up in preparation for a lategame neo-sauron situation.

What the Queens do is allow Zerg to camp, just outside the Terran defense line, and snipe tanks as they accumulate or move out of an area with Broodlings. The goal here is not to win a major engagement, or push on the Terran; it is simply to thin the number of tanks and force Terran to continually reinforce them without making any real progress. As the Zerg player is probably going neo-Sauron, they will have plenty of lings and Hydras to assist in mopping up stray tanks, forcing the Terran to abandon most expansion plans and also discouraging Terran from comitting too many resources to Science Vessels - which helps increase Queen life expectancy dramatically, as well.

Eventually, Zerg will (in theory) hit Hive tech, get ultras/cracklings/defilers, and has a real opportunity to crack the Terran resistance. Because Zerg was able to expand and dig in during the mech switch, and because the Terran player was kept in once place reinforcing his tank line by the marauding Queens, the end result is often a neo-Sauron, 5-6 base zerg vs. a 3 base Terran with an underdeveloped tank army.


This is how the game goes when Queens work. Oddly enough, we haven't seen much in the way of Queens not working, since they have worked in this situation in pretty much all the televised games where the zerg has executed in this manner. I will, however, provide some info on when Queens are simply not used in this manner, or how they might fail.

Queens will not work in this manner if:
-Terran does not mech switch
-Terran builds 108 turrets on Polaris Rhapsody or a similar map with almost no decent avenues of attack (they still might be viable to smash through a tank front, but they will not be as useful in preventing the line from being drawn in the first place)
-Terran is pressuring heavily (and somewhat successfully) leading up to the mech switch
-Terran goes mech from the start (this is speculative, but Terran will typically establish a strong fighting mech army long before mass queens come into play and thus I have not seen them used in this situation)

Now, one other possibility that has really not been explored is the ability of the Terran to hit a timing window before the Queens are loaded with Broodlings. Queens require a TON of mana to function and it is possible that a Terran could make a big push with the mech army right before the Queens are ready to roll out, resulting in a neutered Zerg army unprepared to counter. However, once again, we don't really have enough data from televised games to see how viable this is, and the very nature of the Queen build dictates you spawn the Queens in the window where Terran is most unable to push, so the Zerg would probably have to make a significant misread for this to work.

On June 10 2011 12:53 swanized wrote:


Good post

honestly I don't think hitting with a pre-queen timing is a viable solution for the terran considering the mech ball usually is still quite weak when the mana is building up. Also mech is super immobile and such a push would need to cripple the zerg's fighting force before 150 energy or it's game over.

also, the first variations of the queen switch were made to fight traditional mech builds so yes you can use queens against a player that starts off with mech

also the huge problem with pressuring before the mech switch is that terran players are not upgrading their bio when mech switching so once +2 carapace kicks in the bio army has a very hard time putting pressure.

also the queen switch was orginally developed to fight off traditional mech

like in this game

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYHjRDNLbP8&feature=player_embedded#at=455

On June 10 2011 12:28 MCDayC wrote:
Can someone explain what has actually happened to Flash's wrists? Surely he has access to the best medical treatment, and there should be some point in his life when he is not focused on playing (I don't know the BW tourney schedule) and there is nothing significant approaching. It would ridiculous if he is required to play all year round.