• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 11:38
CET 17:38
KST 01:38
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Dec 22-28): Classic & MaxPax win, Percival surprises0Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies3ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !11Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win4Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Dec 22-28): Classic & MaxPax win, Percival surprises Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced! What's the best tug of war?
Tourneys
OSC Season 13 World Championship $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship $100 Prize Pool - Winter Warp Gate Masters Showdow Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Winter Warp Gate Amateur Showdown #1
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 506 Warp Zone Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play
Brood War
General
What are former legends up to these days? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion How soO Began His ProGaming Dreams Klaucher discontinued / in-game color settings
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] LB SemiFinals - Saturday 21:00 CET [BSL21] WB & LB Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Mechabellum Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Has Anyone Tried Kamagra Chewable for ED? 12 Days of Starcraft The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
National Diversity: A Challe…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Saturation point
Uldridge
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1349 users

[GSL] “No Repeats” - Ro8 and Ro4 Recaps - Page 2

Forum Index > News
106 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
Matrim
Profile Joined October 2010
United Kingdom16 Posts
December 13 2010 10:13 GMT
#21
Since the point of the rating system is to show how well a player played in a particular series surely if the player then gets repeatedly beaten fast then you cannot rate them highly?

I am sure Jinro will get his chance in the future as he is an excellent player.

For now I am really looking forward to seeing if MC can do it again in the finals or whether it was his direct familiarity with Jinro's play that led to his dominance...
But one also finds in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to want to bring the strong down to their level, and which reduces men to preferring equality in servitude to inequality in freedom
dubRa
Profile Joined December 2008
2165 Posts
December 13 2010 10:21 GMT
#22
Jinro vs MC was a one star match in my book. And Jinro didn't perform B at all.
Larrie
Profile Joined October 2010
United Kingdom46 Posts
December 13 2010 10:27 GMT
#23
Some of the ratings seem way off this week and I've never before thought that.




+ Show Spoiler +

B for Jinro and Nestea? They both lost due to poor openings from what I observed and Nestea in particular didn't do anything to adjust his opening to counter it. Surely that is C- level play at the most.
Arceus
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Vietnam8333 Posts
December 13 2010 10:50 GMT
#24
gotta say this edition of recap is pretty bad and not even corresponded to OP's rating standard. Some of the games which u gave 0-1 stars are very interesting and intense, some players should be given more credit while some others aint

+ Show Spoiler +

Just to mention a few, the sim city defense of HongUn is one of the most tense moment in gsl, he should be given much more credit for his fast reaction and iron nerve to defend that push

Game 5 of Nestea v Rain is definitely worth more than 1* when Rain executed his bunkerush very well, yet still played safely and expanded. Though almost crumble, Nestea still held on and almost successfully countered with better decision, fans were given some glimpse of hope & some heartattack. I love that as a spectator

And how come Jinro earned a B for being demolished in less than 10 mins each game, while MK only got C+ after playing some epic games ? I dont care about how theyr teammate and MC being the superior, whoever played that bad should be given D+ at best. This is one the worst series in this gsl imo
Anyway I dont see any game rating for that series, must have been 4x zero stars since the OP is so hard to please.
Fa1nT
Profile Joined September 2010
United States3423 Posts
December 13 2010 11:12 GMT
#25
On December 13 2010 19:09 andrewwiggin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2010 18:52 Taf the Ghost wrote:

Put my responses in spoiler, just because it's so early in the thread.

+ Show Spoiler +

If you watched TSL_Rain vs Nestea, those grades are deserved. Getting really lucky on maps and still nearly not pulling off virtual free win scenario does not make him the better player. If it'd been Scrap Station in game 2 rather than Steppes, Rain is out 0-3.

As for MC vs Jinro, that's a hard one. That very much looked like MC knew what Jinro wanted to do, i.e. it was a team game, and MC had the better mind-game for it. Also, it showed that MC respected Jinro's late-game skill enough he wasn't going to risk it getting that far.

A "B" for Jinro is probably biased, but I'm not sure what grade you would give him otherwise. MC knew what he could do against Jinro, which is probably why Jinro wasn't to high on his chances of beating MC during his Ro8 interview.


Okay. But if Rain doing such POOR, HORRIBLE all-ins, still managed to win... what does that make NesTea? =/


A good zerg player.
Rarak
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia631 Posts
December 13 2010 11:13 GMT
#26
Agree with the comments above... A less biased approach would make for better reading. Jinro sadly got stomped by MC. Marineking put up a better fight, took a game and got a worse ranking? Thats just one example of many....
Xayoz
Profile Joined December 2010
Estonia373 Posts
December 13 2010 11:14 GMT
#27
This is very biased. If Rain vs NesTea series is worth only 2 stars, there is no way MC vs Jinro should get much more.
Whenever you correct someone's grammar just remember that nobody likes you.
LoveJuice
Profile Joined July 2009
Malaysia54 Posts
December 13 2010 11:19 GMT
#28
We all love Jinro but that series vs oGsMC, B is a little too much and no way those games with 0 stars deserve them. Also, a win is a win cheese or not. If you lose to a bad strategy, wouldn't that mean you played even worse?

I'm confused with the ratings given. It makes no sense. Would probably be better off reading comments off GOMTV.net and decide which games to watch.
palookieblue
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia326 Posts
December 13 2010 11:32 GMT
#29
Hilarious bias.
IMNestea gets a B but TSL_Rain gets a C-? You do know who won the series, right?
And against MC you gave Foxer a C+, where the games were at times quite close, and Jinro a B? Futhermore, you then justify the 'B' by saying that MC played well. Newsflash, MC's play is reflected by his own rating.

Puh-leese.
I'd rather you just forgo the ratings if they're going to be so nonsensical, and thus detract from your analysis. The ratings are supposed to reflect a player's standard during one match, not their 'overall strength'. Even in the Fruitdealer vs HongUn series you rated the games as being worthless to watch, essentially, when most people found the frantic defence a pleasure to view.
oyoyo
insult
Profile Joined August 2008
59 Posts
December 13 2010 11:36 GMT
#30
I didn't know that even the people writing articles were bitter fanboys.
Xeris: "Think of Haypro for example (this is purely speculative about his actual mindset/decisionmaking): he could probably win a majority of the weekly cups on EU/NA"
FirstQT
Profile Joined October 2010
United States115 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-13 12:08:55
December 13 2010 12:02 GMT
#31
My brain hurts from reading this recap.

Thanks for putting your time and effort into it I guess.

edit- Also, how did the FD vs HongUn Lost Temple game 4 only get 1 star? based on the rating system...
4 stars - Excellent play demonstrated by at least one of the players, and very likely both. A must watch.
3 stars - A good game, but nothing truly special. Often not competitive, or with some mistakes. Worth watching if you have the time.
2 stars - A below-average game. Not worth watching unless you're a fan of the winning player.
1 star - Not an entertaining or instructive game. Even if you're a fan of the winner, your time is probably better spent.


This was an exciting game which demonstrated great play by hongun being able to macro buildings so well. I was at the edge of my seat and I know I wasn't the only one.
risk.nuke
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden2825 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-13 12:18:53
December 13 2010 12:15 GMT
#32
On December 13 2010 17:44 Danjoh wrote:
I love Jinro just as much as the next guy... but giving him a B for that performance seems a bit biased.

+ Show Spoiler +
He got taken out so damn fast it's hard to judge his performance, and every single game MC seemed to know exactly what he was doing and conjure up the perfect counter strategy. Even the last game, but Jinro managed to get that into a basetrade match...

And bringing up his rating based on that his opponent was of much higher caliber just seems wrong.


But that's just another mans opinion!


+ Show Spoiler +
If you take other factions in your calculations then the gametime elapsed you'll see that he played very solid up till the moment he lost to perfect timing push's. Doing exellent moves and Jinro's builds were executed flawlessly, just that they got hardcountered most of the time before he could reap.(He played B- imo but come'n it's not like the they gave him a A+)
Neo.G Soulkey, Best, firebathero. // http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31
StuF
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands51 Posts
December 13 2010 12:19 GMT
#33
nothing wrong with the analysis, its just the ratings that are a flabbergastering.
hmunkey
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom1973 Posts
December 13 2010 12:19 GMT
#34
I kinda have to echo everyone else here and state that the ratings are incredibly biased to the point of meaninglessness. Jinro is a great guy and all, but he was absolutely demolished. Rain on the other hand won and received a lower grade. How does that work? Beating Nestea isn't some trivial task regardless of how he did it.
StuF
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands51 Posts
December 13 2010 12:25 GMT
#35
granted, it were hard games to judge. short, cheesy, or just plain weird.
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-13 12:28:05
December 13 2010 12:27 GMT
#36
I think people have to watch the games to really understand the rating system. For me the reason Rain got lower than Nestea was because Rain got utterly destroyed in the longer game and in the cheeses it was more Nestea doing 1/2 mistakes than Rain playing anything close to good. So for me it makes sense that Rain got a lower rating. People need to understand that the better player doesn't always win and likewise the person that wins isn't always the better player.

The Fruit vs Hongun games are similar. Fruit outplayed himself more than Hongun did anything. Then MC vs Jinro was such a short affair so really any rating for Jinro is going to be hard and there will be bias since there's not much to say on the matter. MC played amazing and Jinro was just a step behind. Is being a step behind amazing horrible or is it good?
Danjoh
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden405 Posts
December 13 2010 12:37 GMT
#37
On December 13 2010 21:15 goldfishs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2010 17:44 Danjoh wrote:
I love Jinro just as much as the next guy... but giving him a B for that performance seems a bit biased.

+ Show Spoiler +
He got taken out so damn fast it's hard to judge his performance, and every single game MC seemed to know exactly what he was doing and conjure up the perfect counter strategy. Even the last game, but Jinro managed to get that into a basetrade match...

And bringing up his rating based on that his opponent was of much higher caliber just seems wrong.


But that's just another mans opinion!


+ Show Spoiler +
If you take other factions in your calculations then the gametime elapsed you'll see that he played very solid up till the moment he lost to perfect timing push's. Doing exellent moves and Jinro's builds were executed flawlessly, just that they got hardcountered most of the time before he could reap.(He played B- imo but come'n it's not like the they gave him a A+)

Jinros biggest strength is his lategame macro play, if the opponent outplays him so he can't even get to the point where he starts to shines, he's not doing a good job.

And it's stupid to give a player a higher rating based on that his opponent was completely dominating him. A gold player playing against a diamond player doesn't play better simply because his opponent is leagues above him. (not saying Jinro is gold level, just making a anology!).
pedduck
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Thailand468 Posts
December 13 2010 12:40 GMT
#38
Protoss is in GSL final ! WOW!

Great Recaps. Thanks.
g.Krow
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada41 Posts
December 13 2010 12:56 GMT
#39
Nice recap!

Small typo in the score between Rain and HongUn though. It was 4-2 not 4-1.
Brewed Tea
Profile Joined October 2010
United States124 Posts
December 13 2010 12:56 GMT
#40
watch the games. SCV all-ins are not a sign of a good player if it guarantees a free win without much effort. cheesy all-ins are okay. but excessive cheese to win a game because you know you cant win is like a kick to the balls in a MMA fight, it is disgustingly bad and just painful to watch. It does not display any real skill, (well maybe for the defender if he succeeds). I agree with the gradings. the SCV all-ins where so bad that rain even apologized for it.
if it wasnt for mules terrans would have to 15 hatch every game.
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 52m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko484
Livibee 213
Harstem 184
SC2Nice 42
trigger 34
UpATreeSC 23
RushiSC 20
DivinesiaTV 16
StarCraft: Brood War
Jaedong 1661
Soma 903
Mini 866
Stork 745
Larva 600
Snow 272
ZerO 236
Aegong 190
Rush 189
Sharp 164
[ Show more ]
BeSt 115
Barracks 115
sorry 74
Hyun 72
EffOrt 70
Shuttle 67
910 46
Mind 33
JYJ 27
Yoon 27
soO 25
ToSsGirL 25
Terrorterran 18
Sexy 17
Shine 16
Movie 15
eros_byul 0
Dota 2
qojqva3058
Dendi791
syndereN497
420jenkins371
Counter-Strike
allub265
edward125
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor126
Other Games
Grubby4922
singsing2108
hiko972
FrodaN460
Mlord450
B2W.Neo383
Hui .360
Fuzer 357
RotterdaM206
Liquid`VortiX156
ArmadaUGS127
QueenE112
BRAT_OK 56
Mew2King52
Trikslyr34
ZerO(Twitch)17
MindelVK10
Organizations
Other Games
WardiTV590
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 48
• naamasc242
• poizon28 26
• Adnapsc2 3
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV587
• lizZardDota264
Upcoming Events
RotterdaM Event
52m
OSC
19h 22m
Solar vs MaxPax
ByuN vs Krystianer
Spirit vs TBD
OSC
3 days
Korean StarCraft League
4 days
OSC
4 days
OSC
5 days
OSC
5 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 19: Qualifier 2
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025

Upcoming

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
Escore Tournament S1: W2
Escore Tournament S1: W3
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Thunderfire SC2 All-star 2025
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
Nations Cup 2026
Underdog Cup #3
NA Kuram Kup
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.