• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 01:48
CET 07:48
KST 15:48
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners11Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting12[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11
Community News
[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation0Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada4SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA8StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!45$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship7
StarCraft 2
General
Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada Craziest Micro Moments Of All Time? [TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA
Tourneys
Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest Tenacious Turtle Tussle Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection
Brood War
General
Terran 1:35 12 Gas Optimization FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions
Tourneys
[BSL21] RO32 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO32 Group C - Saturday 21:00 CET [ASL20] Grand Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Current Meta PvZ map balance How to stay on top of macro? Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Path of Exile Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Dyadica Gospel – a Pulp No…
Hildegard
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1336 users

[LP] Speedling Expand - Page 2

Forum Index > News
53 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 Next All
kmillz
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1548 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-19 20:54:11
September 19 2010 20:53 GMT
#21
On September 20 2010 05:24 dogabutila wrote:
13pool isn't bronze proof just saying. So much 6 pool there.


13 pool is bronze proof. It is some very tricky micro but i have beaten 6 pool rushes with this (and 14 pool). one cool trick is to keep on sending all your drones on 1 mineral patch to confuse the zergling AI so he cant effectively pick off drones with his lings.
HomicidaL
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States283 Posts
September 19 2010 21:01 GMT
#22
On September 20 2010 05:53 kmillz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2010 05:24 dogabutila wrote:
13pool isn't bronze proof just saying. So much 6 pool there.


13 pool is bronze proof. It is some very tricky micro but i have beaten 6 pool rushes with this (and 14 pool). one cool trick is to keep on sending all your drones on 1 mineral patch to confuse the zergling AI so he cant effectively pick off drones with his lings.


a bronze leauger wouldnt do that
knyttym
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States5797 Posts
September 19 2010 21:16 GMT
#23
You can beat 6 pool with a 15pool so 13 should be pretty simple.
Geo.Rion
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
7377 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-19 21:20:31
September 19 2010 21:19 GMT
#24
its only problem is that it isnt a very good build against most of the stuff going on on the ladder (5 rax reaper, canon contain)

On September 20 2010 06:16 kNyTTyM wrote:
You can beat 6 pool with a 15pool so 13 should be pretty simple.

No, not really, it's close with 14 pool, 15 pool you re alraedy dead. If he's very far away then yes, but why woudl you 6 pool on Desert Oasis?
"Protoss is a joke" Liquid`Jinro Okt.1. 2011
Mastermind
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Canada7096 Posts
September 19 2010 21:39 GMT
#25
On September 20 2010 05:53 kmillz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2010 05:24 dogabutila wrote:
13pool isn't bronze proof just saying. So much 6 pool there.


13 pool is bronze proof. It is some very tricky micro but i have beaten 6 pool rushes with this (and 14 pool). one cool trick is to keep on sending all your drones on 1 mineral patch to confuse the zergling AI so he cant effectively pick off drones with his lings.

Since when do bronze leaguers micro?? did you miss the thread where the guy wins 1000s of games rushing with his first 6 workers?
Eeeegor
Profile Joined April 2005
Australia809 Posts
September 19 2010 22:33 GMT
#26
Keep up the good work Liquipedia team :D
Day9 Made Me Do It
Chronocide
Profile Joined August 2007
United States126 Posts
September 19 2010 22:57 GMT
#27
I posted in the discussion section on the Liquipedia page, but I figure I may as well post here as well. This BO doesn't say anything about dealing with 4gate, and that's what I'm most afraid of whenever I play against protoss. It's hard enough to defend on one base, and almost feels like an auto-lose if I've fast expanded. I really feel the article should address this.
"I quickly scanned the area, and saw no observers, so I locked-down as many scouts as I could with my Ghosts, and ordered one to nuke them" -mrxak
ZapRoffo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5544 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-20 00:03:12
September 19 2010 23:59 GMT
#28
You don't even need good micro to hold a 6 pool with a 13 pool (especially a bronze leaguer's 6 pool), just build your spawning pool right in front of one of your gas lines and then build a spine crawler right in that gas line (front of the crawler is guarded by the pool and one side by the hatch) and then fight near it/send drones there in emergency. Pull a few drones to kill any offensive crawlers he starts, they are only a problem if he gets 2+ up, otherwise your ling production will just overwhelm.

13 pool is a build order win against 6 pool I'd say.
Yeah, well, you know, that's just like, your opinion man
3clipse
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
Canada2555 Posts
September 20 2010 00:13 GMT
#29
Agree with the above 13pool vs 6pool comments. 6pool is just an awful build in anything but zvp.
Sanguinarius
Profile Joined January 2010
United States3427 Posts
September 20 2010 00:36 GMT
#30
Nice article.
Your strength is just an accident arising from the weakness of others -Heart of Darkness
Tazza
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Korea (South)1678 Posts
September 20 2010 01:47 GMT
#31
Thx, but idk, 13 pool/gas is too hard on eco, I think 15 gas 15 pool or just 15 hatch 14 pool 13 gas works much better
semantics
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
10040 Posts
September 20 2010 01:57 GMT
#32
On September 20 2010 10:47 Tazza wrote:
Thx, but idk, 13 pool/gas is too hard on eco, I think 15 gas 15 pool or just 15 hatch 14 pool 13 gas works much better

It's why i like 14 gas 14 pool better you get similar timings but a better off econ in the end. i think 15 pool play lends it self to a 1 base zerg imo
kmillz
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1548 Posts
September 20 2010 04:17 GMT
#33
On September 20 2010 06:39 Mastermind wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2010 05:53 kmillz wrote:
On September 20 2010 05:24 dogabutila wrote:
13pool isn't bronze proof just saying. So much 6 pool there.


13 pool is bronze proof. It is some very tricky micro but i have beaten 6 pool rushes with this (and 14 pool). one cool trick is to keep on sending all your drones on 1 mineral patch to confuse the zergling AI so he cant effectively pick off drones with his lings.

Since when do bronze leaguers micro?? did you miss the thread where the guy wins 1000s of games rushing with his first 6 workers?


Yes lmao where is this thread?
Inkarnate
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada840 Posts
September 20 2010 04:19 GMT
#34
Just waiting for when someone adds bronze proof to 5rax reaper build :O
Mykal
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada1 Post
Last Edited: 2010-09-20 05:47:18
September 20 2010 05:47 GMT
#35
Hey all, new to TL. Question;

Why take the drones off the gas?
NotGood-
Profile Joined March 2010
United States134 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-20 06:46:31
September 20 2010 06:45 GMT
#36
On September 20 2010 14:47 Mykal wrote:
Hey all, new to TL. Question;

Why take the drones off the gas?

Because you want more minerals and dont need more gas at that point in the game. Obviously your going to put them back on later but having 3 more workers on minerals will increase your mineral income, which is what you really need at that point.
mathemagician1986
Profile Joined February 2010
Germany549 Posts
September 20 2010 08:29 GMT
#37
On September 20 2010 05:18 erulabs wrote:
I have actually been doing a slightly modified opening of this build since I really started maining Zerg. My build is as follows:

9 over
12 pool
12 gas
16 queen
18 overlord
19 ling (gas trick, fast ling is for killing scout)
@100 gas speed, take drones off gas and expand

Versus protoss that is scouted to be 2 gate rushing, or terran that _is not_ walling (properly), I continue mining gas and build baneling nest @50, take units off gas at 100 (four banelings), and expand.

This build once I really mastered it took me from 1100pt random to 1400pt zerg. This build is roughly the same economically as Sheths (due to 2 extra drones before starting to make lings/save for expo, but 1 less before saving for pool), but it also gets speed out slightly earlier rather than more lings out (this is to deal with very early reaper/reaper speed).

Also, a note of 12 pool over 13. 12 pool is still larvae efficient, inotherwords, the hatchery never stops "larae production", even though you reach 2 larvae while waiting for minerals for pool. This gets your queen out faster, which is insanely helpful against crazy proxy 6/1gate play i've been seeing on 2 player maps lately. The only draw back is having 2 lings instead of 4, although the 2 come out (1 drones worth of time) earlier. 12 pool is also superior against Random players, as 13 pool against 6pool becomes a matter of micro, whereas 12 pool simply wins (due to lings and queen).

Also, about the baneling addition. If you do the gas trick to build a zergling on 19 and _leave_ the gas geyser, you can get to 150 gas very quickly. Then just move all 6 drones back to minerals and expand behind the bust. This strategy is not only not _all in_ (i've had it fail 100% and have gone on to win many many times), it only sets you 2 or 3 drones behind where you would have had you skipped banelings. It also gives Zerg pressure on Terran early game (!!!), which IMO, is worth any amount of minerals.


sounds very interesting! Have you tested doing a double extractor trick to do the 12 pool? how does that compare to your build?

Do the banelings come out in time to deal with a 2 gating protoss (I assmuse you mean a normal 12-13 gate, not double 10 gate)?

It seems your build exchanges a minimal economical disadvantage to be a lot safer vs cheese and early pressure, sounds like it might help me reduce all those stupid losses vs cheese.

You should write an article about it! That's what the liquipedia is there for!
Pholon
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Netherlands6142 Posts
September 20 2010 08:31 GMT
#38
On September 20 2010 07:57 Chronocide wrote:
I posted in the discussion section on the Liquipedia page, but I figure I may as well post here as well. This BO doesn't say anything about dealing with 4gate, and that's what I'm most afraid of whenever I play against protoss. It's hard enough to defend on one base, and almost feels like an auto-lose if I've fast expanded. I really feel the article should address this.


Obviously we left this part out in purpose to try and lure you guys into contributing ;o
Moderator@TLPholon // "I need a third hand to facepalm right now"
erulabs
Profile Joined April 2010
United States41 Posts
September 20 2010 12:41 GMT
#39
@mathemagician1986: Thanks! Yeah, it works with double gas trick to 12 too, but I find that is to fast and cuts to much on droning past the 2nd overlord, although, for an "all in" kind of bust it might be better.

The baneling nest does come out _after_ a proxy 2 gate hits, but you'll be fine against it without banelings. Once you hold it off (speed will have just finished), banelings ensure a win back at his base.
The high altitude bomber siren tolls for thee
bconSaberRider
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany47 Posts
September 20 2010 13:10 GMT
#40
On September 20 2010 05:24 dogabutila wrote:
13pool isn't bronze proof just saying. So much 6 pool there.


I think it is about vs. P not Z.
Prev 1 2 3 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 12m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech133
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 53067
Sea 3856
Tasteless 313
ajuk12(nOOB) 12
Icarus 2
Dota 2
XaKoH 413
Counter-Strike
fl0m1932
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King33
Other Games
summit1g15438
hungrybox917
WinterStarcraft364
C9.Mang0290
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH221
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Diggity2
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo961
• Rush880
• Stunt573
Other Games
• Scarra756
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
2h 12m
OSC
4h 42m
Kung Fu Cup
5h 12m
Classic vs Solar
herO vs Cure
Reynor vs GuMiho
ByuN vs ShoWTimE
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
16h 12m
The PondCast
1d 3h
RSL Revival
1d 3h
Solar vs Zoun
MaxPax vs Bunny
Kung Fu Cup
1d 5h
WardiTV Korean Royale
1d 5h
PiGosaur Monday
1d 18h
RSL Revival
2 days
Classic vs Creator
Cure vs TriGGeR
[ Show More ]
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
herO vs Gerald
ByuN vs SHIN
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
IPSL
3 days
ZZZero vs rasowy
Napoleon vs KameZerg
BSL 21
3 days
Tarson vs Julia
Doodle vs OldBoy
eOnzErG vs WolFix
StRyKeR vs Aeternum
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Reynor vs sOs
Maru vs Ryung
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
4 days
BSL 21
4 days
JDConan vs Semih
Dragon vs Dienmax
Tech vs NewOcean
TerrOr vs Artosis
IPSL
4 days
Dewalt vs WolFix
eOnzErG vs Bonyth
Wardi Open
5 days
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-07
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual

Upcoming

SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.