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[SC2B] Benchmarks, 2v2, and the Patch!

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[SC2B] Benchmarks, 2v2, and the Patch!

Text byInsane
February 26th, 2010 11:12 GMT
[image loading]

In this update, read about prayanavita's scientific investigation into precise benchmarking and performance of SC2, Hot_Bid's 2v2 guide combined with his humorous 1v1 experiences, and Insane's reflections on the first patch.

Benchmarks, 2v2, and the Patch!

Teamliquid.net Starcraft 2 Friday Update
By prayanavita, Hot_Bid, and Insane


Prayanavita Benchmarks the Beta

This article gives us a first impression of Starcraft II: Beta system performance by benchmarking the game on several computers. The results of these benchmarks can be used in conjuction with the [Guideline] SC2 Computers thread which contains information about user experiences running Starcraft 2. This article is focused on putting a number on that performance and to quantify differences in performance at the various resolutions and levels of detail.

Performance tests performed in this article can be used as an indication of expected performance on comparable systems. I used the systems most readily available to me and as evidenced by the specifications these are by far not top-of-the-line systems. In my opinion using top-of-the-line systems is not in the interest of most future Starcraft II players. Also it will be interesting to see if Blizzard made another game that is able to run well on older systems. These are my reasons for using this selection of sub-$500 systems.


Methodology

To test the performance in Starcraft II, I decided to judge performance by the frame rate. Measuring the following values:

• Minimum Frames per Second
• Average Frames per Second
• Maximum Frames per Second

Measuring the frame rate was done by running Fraps for 5 minutes and exporting the values to the graphs showed in this article. Because there is no built-in benchmarking tool, I tried to emulate situations consistent with the general experience of playing a game of Starcraft II. I did this by watching the same replay starting at the same point in time mark and keeping the screen centered on an area with the most activity. I benchmarked for 3 minutes watching a troop of Zerg units fighting midgame battles against a Terran army. During the replay approximately 60-70 units were seen battling on screen. A bigger performance drop can be expected when transitioning to late game play with 200/200 armies, but this was left out of scope for these benchmarks
The computers have not had any special preparations prior to installing Starcraft II, all systems have had windows installed for several months. Any additional programs not required for testing had been shut down prior to benchmarking. Because I do not have any 16:10/16 : 9 monitors available all tests have been done in 4:3/5:4 ratios.


System Specifications

For the test I used three of my computers, all with different specifications and form factors. I will shortly describe the relevant specifications of all systems in this paragraph. The names mentioned here will be used to refer back to the system specifications in the graphs of the article.
Both computers mentioned are desktop machines. Latest updates and drivers are installed. The first computer, the Q6600, is a PC I bought 2 years ago. My expectation is that this computer will not have any problems running Starcraft II. The other system, which I named A3000 for the purpose of these benchmarks, is a five year old computer that has had a upgrade in the form of a budget graphics card. Before starting the tests I am most interested in seeing my old system run Starcraft II; I wonder if it is even possible at all to run Starcraft II on high settings.

Q6600
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 (4x2.4GHz)
MSI P6N SLI Platinum, nForce-650i SLI
8GB OCZ Platinum DDR2 PC6400
Nvidia Asus EN8800GTS 512MB
Windows XP SP3

A3000
AMD Athlon 64 3000+ (1x1.8Ghz)
MSI K8N Platinum
2GB DDR2-400
Ati Sapphire Radeon HD 4670 512MB
Windows XP SP3

Small oops during installation on the older system:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


Resolutions and level of detail

I used three different resolutions for my benchmarks: 1024x768, 1280x1024 and 1600x1200. For every resolution I benchmarked two settings, low detail and high detail. The settings used can be seen here accompanied by a screenshot to give an idea what the difference between low and high detail is. When changing resolutions all other graphic settings remained the same.

Low Detail
+ Show Spoiler [Show Low Detail Screenshot] +
[image loading]

[image loading]

At low detail there is clearly a lack of detail on the units and the ground textures are a lot more plain. Compared to high detail this level of detail is a lot friendlier on the eyes, albeit not very pretty. Screenshots do not show the complete picture but what I have seen so far is that units seem to disappear a lot quicker when playing on low detail. It would not surprise me if most competitive players would select this level of detail.

High Detail
+ Show Spoiler [Show High Detail Screenshot] +
[image loading]

[image loading]

High detail definitely looks a lot more crisp and alive; the level of detail on the units is enhanced quite a bit--also there are a lot more doodads placed on the ground. Explosions tend to last longer and debris can be seen flying through the air whenever a Terran vehicle blows up.


Test Results

Here the test results will be displayed. The bar graphs are using a fixed width to provide visual clarity when comparing the results. On the horizontal axis are the frames per second measured and on the vertical axis are both systems. Each system has three bars displaying the minimum fps measured, maximum fps and the average fps for the complete duration of the benchmark.

+ Show Spoiler [Show 1024 Resolution Test Results] +
[image loading]

[image loading]

It is shown here that there is the expected difference between high and low detail. Framerates are roughly halved by selecting the higher setting. That’s something to keep in mind when configuring Starcraft for optimal gameplay.

+ Show Spoiler [Show 1280 Resolution Test Results] +
[image loading]

[image loading]

It is interesting to see that there is no reduced performance when switching towards a higher resolution. The most significant drop is seen in the max frame rate on the Q6600.

+ Show Spoiler [Show 1600 Resolution Test Results] +
[image loading]

[image loading]

Even at the highest resolution numbering almost double the amount of pixels it does not reflect back on the frame rate of Starcraft 2. I have yet to explain this behavior, but obviously this is interesting to say the least. There is a slight drop, but that could also be explained by the nature of the tests.


Conclusion

Based on the test results it can be noted that Blizzard put in a lot of effort to ensure everyone can enjoy Starcraft II. Although the results might not completely represent the situation after launch, but it can be used as an indication for someone considering an upgrade to their current system. I was pleasantly surprised by the performance of my older system, the results by far exceeded my expectations.

Requests for additional test or specifications can be placed in the topic below this article and I will see if I can squeeze it into my rigorous schedule of actually playing the beta. Sheets with raw data gathered during the benchmarking are available on request. I welcome any suggestions and feedback, so discuss!

Editor's Note: This next article was written before the patch nullified chrono boosting your ally's buildings. Look on the bright side, Hot_Bid, at least you were right about what to abuse

Hot_Bid: Chrono Boosts and Underdogs

I played a lot of 2v2

Insane and I did quite well on the 2v2 Ladder. We were #1 for a day or two, and after a week we're the #2 team in Platinum Division 1. We play an economy-oriented style, and our goal is to react to the opponent's first rush. The main basic "rushes" are Zealot/Marine, Marine/Roach, and Zealot/Roach. We rarely face teching builds, or teams that play passively like us (except on Twilight Fortress, but that's just because of the shared mains). However, you can be very successful simply massing and rushing with basic units if you have streamlined builds. I would say you can reach Top 10 in any Platinum 2v2 division if you can just transition smoothly and micro your first attack well. Against the better pairs, a pure rush build probably won't work, but against the vast majority of teams, you'll be at the advantage if you attack first.

[image loading]
Notice that Z/X dominates the 2v2 Ladder, just like in BW.


2v2: General Tips

  • Use the chrono boost on your ally's stuff. The building that by far receives the most benefit is the hatchery, as you get your lair and extra queen larvae faster. Insane often uses the boost on my upgrades like ling or baneling speed or even something like +1 air attack. [Editor's note: Blizzard has since patched this, you can't boost your ally's stuff anymore.]

  • If you're P, always build a pylon in your ally's base so you can warp in units in case he gets attacked. A sentry is especially awesome as it can block the ramp by itself.

  • Pay attention to Overlord placement! This seems obvious, but so much of 2v2 is positioning and army movement.

  • Share resources. It's not uncommon for us to ask each other for resources. The obvious case is when you only have a worker and not enough to build a Nexus, but don't hesitate to send minerals if your ally's econ was hurt. A few hundred minerals is far more valuable to a player hurting for workers.

  • Give control to each other when needed! Many players don't know this option exists, but you can allow your ally to control your units from the menu in the top right.

Race Specific Strategy

Against a PP or TT or ZZ, just build your respective counters. We mass zealots and roaches against PP. I go speedling/baneling while my ally techs to colossus against TT. Playing against ZZ can be dicey if they both roach rush, so you have the option of attempting to hit one super early, or holding out for robo tech.

Against Z/P, the Zerg almost always does some sort of roach build. We have two options: 1) build more zealots and roaches and outmicro, or 2) tech to immortals, the hard counter to roaches. The second option is far more difficult to pull off, especially on smaller distance maps or ones without ramps, but when it works, it can instantly win you the game. You are constantly trying to get into the "right" fights, as in your roaches vs enemy melee or your immortals vs enemy roaches and stalkers. Your P ally should have a nice army mix -- make sure to include sentries for the shield bubble ability.

Don't neglect your econ and tech transitions. It's easy at first to just rush rush rush off cookie cutter builds, but this sort of all-or-nothing play will only get you so far. You'll need a solid mid and late game plan to beat good teams.

[image loading]
One of our losses. Chrono boosted muta rush fails, and they outmacro us.


T/P is the most straightforward. We try to bust the P with roaches+ally or bust the Terran with speedling/baneling+ally. Try not to let their armies meet, and be careful about reapers. T/Z is the most difficult -- we're not truly sure what to do against this combo yet. We always can just 10pool + proxy gate rush, or bust the T's wall in. Just don't let that marine/roach army meet, because that unit combo in large quantities is so difficult to deal with. The roach is the perfect compliment to the marine, as it tanks all the damage and kills everything the marines are weak against. The rush also comes at a timing that is faster than the tech needed to deal with them.

Four Fun 2v2 Strategies for Twilight Fortress

Twilight Fortress is the map where you share mains with your ally. There are four total bases in your shared area, accessed by a single choke. It's a very fun map and allows for some truly great strategy diversification. Some of these aren't viable, but they are definitely fun.

  • Proxy Gate + Sunken Rush
    Given the long distances on this map, most Zergs feel very safe doing some sort of 13 drone opening, so proxy your gates with a 10 pool. Send two drones ahead of your lings to sunken rush too. Make sure to wait for three zealots and go with the lings+drones so your opponent isn't tipped off and spends all his larvae on drones.

  • Boosted Proxies
    The screenshot says it all. Another less fun one involves proxying two stargates for three void rays instead, but your ally will need to send you gas. [Editor's note: Blizzard has since patched this. You can't boost your ally's stuff anymore.]

[image loading]
Yes, that's a double chrono boost for reapers+upgrade at the 3:30 mark.

  • Boosted Lair

    Go Z/P. Let your opponent's scout see no gas started in your main. As soon as you kill off the scout, make two gas and get lair. Your P ally chrono boosts the lair, and you can either go spire or nydus and completely surprise your opponents with the timing. [Editor's note: Blizzard has since patched this. You can't boost your ally's stuff anymore.]

  • Macro Micro UMS

    Ally 1 (preferably Protoss) goes pylon, nexus, nexus, taking three of the four bases. Ally 2 builds a lot of production facilities. At the 5-minute mark, when resource sharing is allowed, Ally 1 constantly sends all resources to Ally 2, and also uses his nexuses (which all have saved energy) to chrono boost all the production buildings. If you want to be especially nasty, hidden expo to your opponent's gold mineral expo.

1v1 Adventures

After a good hundred games of 2v2, I did manage to get in some 1v1s. I had not touched the 1v1 ladder since the first day (when I went 9-1 to get into Platinum Div1), so my rating was only 1000. I don't know if the AMM was on the fritz, but I got matched up with Tasteless (1300+ rating) for my first game.

[image loading]
Roaches can't hit air, but in ZvZ, they don't have to.


I lost to Tasteless in a ZvZ where both of us admittedly didn't know what to do other than build mass roaches. I won the first roach fight but he won the second. As inReach said in his thread after facing Artosis: "I may never make another muta in ZvZ." They simply cannot kill roaches fast enough and eat up your gas.

While I consider myself far better than my 1000 rating, I was a relative noob at 1v1. It was weird playing someone who was #2 in his division right off the bat. So imagine my shock when I hit the "Find Game" button only to draw 1650+ rated #1 Artosis three times in a row. How does this even happen? Does it know I'm not really 1000 from my 1600+ 2v2 rating? I can't imagine it's beneficial to either party to have players facing each other with a 600 point rating difference.

[image loading]
Artosis jinxes himself.


I get owned very badly by Artosis in two games (ZvZ and ZvP), but in game three I successfully hid my lair from his scout and killed him with mutas. I think I set him back fifteen wins. I'm sorry Artosis, I never wanted to play you.

See you guys next week!


Insane's Thoughts on Starcraft 2.1


Amidst cries of dismay as the Battle.net server gave a mere five minutes warning before going offline, players realized that this may herald the arrival of the first ever Starcraft 2 patch--and what do you know, the fans were not disappointed. Or rather, quite a few were disappointed, but that was because of what the patch actually contained!

First though, there's a definitely cool feature I want to call out which isn't mentioned in the patch notes!

[image loading]


What do the arrows mean? Well, we don't know over what time period it's referring to going up and down as right now, but it's definitely a step in the right direction!

Let's take a more detailed look at what the patch actually did and how this is going to affect the game.

Protoss
The Protoss race has been by far the most popular thus far in the Beta. Whether it's actually the strongest is still under debate by many, especially those complaining about the strength of Mutalisks and other such units.

Observer
Gravitic Boosters: The cost of this research has decreased from 150 minerals and 150 vespene gas to 100 minerals and 100 vespene gas.

Maybe this will encourage people to get Observer speed more... I feel this change isn't very significant overall. There is simply such a huge lack of cloaked units in Starcraft 2 that Observers don't need to keep up with your army so much. No longer do we see Spider Mines all over popping up and ruining careless Protosses. No longer are Zergs containing with Lurkers and sniping Observers.
Until cloaked units and sniping Observers plays a larger part in the game, things like this are simply unimportant and will continue to be skipped in favor of more valuable upgrades / units.

High Templar
Phase Shift replaced by Feedback


[image loading]


Looks like the Dark Archon is worming his way back into SC2! As weak overall as the Dark Archon was, Feedback was a pretty good spell in a few limited situations. I have yet to use this spell in SC2, and I do wonder if it'll end up being useful here. For not much more energy, you could simply cast a Psi Storm. If you look at the units that currently define the matchups, most of them do not use energy. It looks to me like that ability that is "kind of" useful, but will be overshadowed by the fact that Psi Storm is the other High Templar spell.
Still, it's better than Phase Shift, so it's at least a step in the right direction...


Colossus
The building pathing radius for this unit has decreased from .75 to .5625.

I don't have precise information for exactly what this will mean from a functional perspective, but I can say the change is a nice one. The way the Colossus is, he should be pretty good at walking around stuff. I've had several games where the Colossus got stuck because he's fatter than an SC1 Ultralisk, so I'm glad to see this change.


Mothership
Vortex: Energy cost increased from 75 to 100, radius decreased from 3.0 to 2.5
Temporal Rift: Removed
Wormhole Transit: Removed
Mass Recall: New ability, teleports all of the player's units in the target area to the Mothership.

The biggest change for Protoss, without a doubt. This change basically changes the Mothership into a big slow Arbiter and removes its fantastic escape mechanism. I do wonder if, since they removed two abilities and only added one: will they add another ability in a later patch?

Regardless of having another ability added, I feel that these changes affect the Arbiter Mothership negatively. The Mothership lacks the speed of the SC1 Arbiter and there's only one Mothership, so Recall is not such a surprise weapon. It's really too early to say whether Mass Recall will be too strong, not strong enough, or just right. What I do know is that it dilutes the flavor of the Mothership and reduces its harass capability--before you could be aggressive and harass with it, secure in your ability to Wormhole Transit away.

Nexus
Chrono Boost can no longer target allies.

Was this considered a bug before? I don't know, but Hot_Bid and I had some cool strategies we worked out involving Chrono Boosting an ally's Lair upgrade, as well as Zergling Speed and so on. One can argue that the other macro mechanics were less "adaptable" for allies, but it was a part of the Protoss experience in 2v2 and added a lot of additional strategies and possibilities that simply were not there otherwise.

It probably won't affect 2v2 hugely, but it does detract from some cool strategic novelties and builds, and for that I'm sorry to see it go.

Gateway
The build time of this building has increased from 50 to 65.

This is quite a major change to me. Previously a Zerg going 13 Hatchery at his Natural was extremely vulnerable to the Protoss risk-free killing him--a Pylon/Gateway in the main base (in case the Zerg opened with a Pool instead) could quite safely be followed up with two proxy Gateways outside the Zerg base, which combined with Chrono Boost was extremely strong due to the fact that Roaches come out so late with a Hatchery first opening.

This change is going to make Hatchery first a much easier defensive possiblity-perhaps even feasible. The current playstyle has mostly been gravitating towards 1-base Protoss play with strong timing attacks. With the Gateway proxies not being so easy a transition against Hatchery first expansion play, this may end up pushing PvZ into a more macro-oriented style.
As a Protoss player I am obviously sad to see this change, but I think it's probably a good change, as Chrono Boosted proxy Gateways really were pretty ridiculously strong.

Zerg

Infestor
Fungal Growth: Damage decreased from 48 to 36, affected units can't burrow
Neural Parasite: Now channeling spell, lasts up to 10 seconds; all units now vulnerable.
Terran Infestation: Energy cost halved from 50 to 25 and Infested Terrans now spawn 1 at a time.

I have to confess--I've never played against anyone who used an Infestor, and I have very limited experience with them. The changes outlined above are mostly positive--I imagine the damage decrease is partially to prevent them from one-hitting (un-HP-upgraded) Marines.
Infested Terrans are frankly quite weak from what I've seen. They're not the Infested Terran of SC1--they now seem to be pretty weak. The unit still feels a bit gimmicky to me (as Infested Terrans always are....), and I can't see Neural Parasite being very useful unless it has an ungodly cast range.
As soon as you take over a Thor, the Terran will see your Infestor channeling away, and will instantly kill it--bam, useless. OK, its mana cost may not be as prohibitive as Mind Control, but in every single other aspect, it's a much worse spell.

I appreciate that they are trying to make the Infestor a useful unit, but I don't think these changes are it.

Terran

Viking
The armor value for this unit in Fighter Mode has decreased from 1 to 0.
The damage done by this unit in Fighter Mode has changed from 6 (+8 armored) to 10 (+4 armored).

The main change here is that Vikings now suck much less against Mutalisks. Vikings in ground mode are already quite effective units, but have struggled a lot against Zerg, since once the Zerg gets Mutalisks they start overturning the Vikings with ease. I like the change--I think it'll help make Starport play a lot more viable against Zergs. Banshees are already quite good; this will help them not become useless beyond early game unless accompanied by ground forces.

Miscellaneous
Addressed an issue causing people to receive an “Internal Battle.net Error” message with their game client.
Muting your microphone will no longer cause your microphone to be turned off in the operating system once the program has exited.
Please note that the voice chat functionality has only partially been implemented. There are many known issues with voice chat that we expect to address in a future patch.
The “Medium” graphical settings were reconfigured to work better on appropriate machines. The video settings “auto-detect” functionality has been reset as a result.
Added a frame rate limiter to the game menus to prevent some graphics cards from running at higher frame rates than necessary

We are still missing a lot of basic command functionality in Battle.net (/w ), and the biggest thing that bugs me right now is that the latency is, frankly, quite bad.
It's not like playing on Extra-High Lat, but it's still not like playing on #LL either. If 3rd party groups can achieve such latency settings for an ancient game like SC1 without even having the source code, then Blizzard should definitely do so on SC2, as well.

What Was Missing?
Well, there are a lot of things that were not in this patch that many people were hoping or expecting. On the whole, the patch changed very little apart from weakening Protoss early-game options. The things that many people have been calling for were a nerf to Roaches and/or a nerf to Mutalisks.

I'm glad Blizzard did not cave to the cries of players calling for this. People right now have a tendency to lose to something many times in a row trying to play like this is SC1, or simply not understanding how to beat it. Even good players, especially those who have had a history of success in other RTSes, are guilty of this--they get far because of mechanical skill and figuring out some good strategies, but can grow quick to call imbalance rather than simply asking others and experimenting with various unit combos until working out a solution.

My personal opinion is that the patch didn't miss much. Some changes were pretty insignificant, as were some of the spell changes. These are minor complaints, however, and I feel that they did not significantly affect the (quite good) balance. I'm especially glad they did not nerf Zerg into oblivion with the wailing about Roaches and Mutalisks.

I give Blizzard a grade of A- for their first SC2 patch.



This post was made by the Team Liquid Starcraft 2 Coverage Team. For more of TL's coverage, please visit the Team Liquid Starcraft 2 Beta Page.
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Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36374 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-26 11:22:21
February 26 2010 11:18 GMT
#2
Why Blizzard why did you take away my beloved ally's chrono boost. It had so much potential for 2v2 strategic variation! Hopefully Blizzard balance tested it and found it to be unfair. I hope they didn't just remove it because it's easier than balancing the mechanic.
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
omninmo
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
2349 Posts
February 26 2010 11:23 GMT
#3
keep up the good work with your patch notes notes.
Ftrunkz
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Australia2474 Posts
February 26 2010 11:26 GMT
#4
you forgot the raider's nerf, which i think a lot of people missunderstood as a buff, something in the article noting how buildings have 1 armour so it is infact a dps decrease, and how it limits their ability to hit and run as good would've been nice .

otherwise good article ^^
@NvPinder on twitter | Member of Gamecom Nv | http://www.clan-ta.com | http://www.youtube.com/user/ftrunkz | http://www.twitchtv.com/xghpinder
iNcontroL *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
USA29055 Posts
February 26 2010 11:27 GMT
#5
nice article lol @ artosis btw
z]Benny
Profile Joined April 2006
Romania253 Posts
February 26 2010 11:34 GMT
#6
On February 26 2010 20:18 Hot_Bid wrote:
Why Blizzard why did you take away my beloved ally's chrono boost. It had so much potential for 2v2 strategic variation! Hopefully Blizzard balance tested it and found it to be unfair. I hope they didn't just remove it because it's easier than balancing the mechanic.


It was probably because there was no equivalent of this for Terran or Zerg. You can'd lend out larvae or Mules I guess...
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36374 Posts
February 26 2010 11:37 GMT
#7
On February 26 2010 20:34 z]Benny wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2010 20:18 Hot_Bid wrote:
Why Blizzard why did you take away my beloved ally's chrono boost. It had so much potential for 2v2 strategic variation! Hopefully Blizzard balance tested it and found it to be unfair. I hope they didn't just remove it because it's easier than balancing the mechanic.


It was probably because there was no equivalent of this for Terran or Zerg. You can'd lend out larvae or Mules I guess...

You can lend out mules, just use the mule and give him resources.
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
Latham
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
9558 Posts
February 26 2010 11:38 GMT
#8
Good article, always nice to read! Even though I'm not in the beta and never even knew chrono boost could be used on friendly structures, I feel this change is somewhat unjustified. From the way you guys describe it, it made for some very fun gameplay options and strategies, maybe if we wine enough they'll put it back in :p.

The only change I don't understand is why they would buff the reapers more. They already raped buildings so why make it even easier for them? Well maybe in time people will learn to adapt better to them, stop them for efficiently, and they'll really need this buff.
For the curse of life is the curse of want. PC = https://be.pcpartpicker.com/list/4JknvV
rererebanned
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
67 Posts
February 26 2010 11:43 GMT
#9
On February 26 2010 20:18 Hot_Bid wrote:
Why Blizzard why did you take away my beloved ally's chrono boost. It had so much potential for 2v2 strategic variation! Hopefully Blizzard balance tested it and found it to be unfair. I hope they didn't just remove it because it's easier than balancing the mechanic.


They could "easily" balance it, by say, making it 50% effective vs ally buildings.
Perhaps the P+x teams were simply to strong, when compared to teams without P?
(P would become equivalent of Z in SC1 2v2?)
LordLastDay
Profile Joined February 2008
34 Posts
February 26 2010 11:48 GMT
#10
Yeah I don't have a beta key so I just watch a lot of streams, but I saw Vikings being pretty terrible against Mutalisks...
Hopefully this evens it out.
dangots0ul
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States919 Posts
February 26 2010 11:49 GMT
#11
artosis new enemy.. the mutalisk???
i type teamliquid into the url subconsciously... all...the...time...
QuothTheRaven
Profile Joined December 2008
United States5524 Posts
February 26 2010 11:49 GMT
#12
Poor Artosis. Gonna have to play all night to make up for the damage you put on him.
. . . nevermore
7mk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Germany10157 Posts
February 26 2010 12:32 GMT
#13
On February 26 2010 20:49 dangots0ul wrote:
artosis new enemy.. the mutalisk???


It's not like he didn't have a problem with korean kids doing 2 hatch muta before already


Disappointing that they didnt properly improve the infestor.

I hope that feedback has good range. The only reason to possibly choose this over psionic storm is if you can instakill ghosts with it.
beep boop
EvilTeletubby
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
Baltimore, USA22251 Posts
February 26 2010 12:33 GMT
#14
Good read guys!
Moderatorhttp://carbonleaf.yuku.com/topic/408/t/So-I-proposed-at-a-Carbon-Leaf-concert.html ***** RIP Geoff
KinosJourney2
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Sweden1811 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-26 12:42:34
February 26 2010 12:42 GMT
#15
I haven't played SC2 but aren't the armor reduce on vikings really stupid? It's like the only terran air vs air unit excluding the battlecruiser.

Other than that the patch seemed good, infestors mind control ability should be buffed along with the mothership IMO, although the mothership was overpowered before the new one seems really weak. If you only can make one then it should have some usefull abilities atleast.

EDIT: Forgot to say, awesome read. Good job
ocho wrote: EDIT: NEVERMIND, THIS THING HAS APM TECHNOLOGY OMG
tre2ettsexsju
Profile Joined May 2008
Sweden248 Posts
February 26 2010 12:51 GMT
#16
Nice read, good to see some stuff about 2v2 :O!
ToeJam
Profile Joined April 2009
United States282 Posts
February 26 2010 13:06 GMT
#17
I have a feeling they took away boost just because it has so much potential that it will make protoss the key race to have in a 2v2. It certainly would make things interesting though ;; I hope they figure out a way to add it back in because it can add a whole line of strategies on its own.
Chillz
Profile Joined May 2009
Canada100 Posts
February 26 2010 13:23 GMT
#18
Awesome guys. Hope my best key comes this week!
cyclone25
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Romania3344 Posts
February 26 2010 13:33 GMT
#19
what about the "move" command turning into "attack-move" that is really annoying when you try to scout. was this fixed?
3FFA
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States3931 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-26 16:51:45
February 26 2010 13:49 GMT
#20
On February 26 2010 20:18 Hot_Bid wrote:
Why Blizzard why did you take away my beloved ally's chrono boost. It had so much potential for 2v2 strategic variation! Hopefully Blizzard balance tested it and found it to be unfair. I hope they didn't just remove it because it's easier than balancing the mechanic.


lol. Because of a chroned 6pool rush,thats why.

Edit: but man I hate that a relatively new player(to 1vs1) gets matched with a guy like artosis(lol spelling check says atrocious) 1600! I think it could be trying to figure out whether he is at about your level, much worse, or much much better. Well, GL to you Hot_Bid!
"As long as it comes from a pure place and from a honest place, you know, you can write whatever you want."
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36374 Posts
February 26 2010 13:50 GMT
#21
On February 26 2010 22:49 3FFA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2010 20:18 Hot_Bid wrote:
Why Blizzard why did you take away my beloved ally's chrono boost. It had so much potential for 2v2 strategic variation! Hopefully Blizzard balance tested it and found it to be unfair. I hope they didn't just remove it because it's easier than balancing the mechanic.


lol. Because of a chroned 6pool rush,thats why.

Boost doesn't accelerate buildings, only upgrades...
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
Tomer
Profile Joined June 2009
United States105 Posts
February 26 2010 13:55 GMT
#22
Excellent read everyone! Thanks a ton for the coverage!
Nation_
Profile Joined August 2009
United States111 Posts
February 26 2010 14:03 GMT
#23
I was really hoping they would do something about Protoss' AA this patch. Or am I the only one that thinks P have really weak AA?
Dav_
Profile Joined June 2009
Hungary236 Posts
February 26 2010 14:16 GMT
#24
On February 26 2010 20:18 Hot_Bid wrote:
Why Blizzard why did you take away my beloved ally's chrono boost. It had so much potential for 2v2 strategic variation! Hopefully Blizzard balance tested it and found it to be unfair. I hope they didn't just remove it because it's easier than balancing the mechanic.


chrono boostin your ally is BS. it's like i sending my queen to my terran ally and spawn larvae at his CC and he can make terran units from it
mawno
Profile Joined February 2009
Sweden114 Posts
February 26 2010 14:24 GMT
#25
boosting your ally is incredibly hard to balance around, not surprised to see this removed.
RoarMan
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada745 Posts
February 26 2010 14:38 GMT
#26
Feedback > Ghosts.

Protoss may no longer have to fear EMP!
All the pros got dat Ichie.
pachi
Profile Joined October 2006
Melbourne5338 Posts
February 26 2010 14:40 GMT
#27
On February 26 2010 23:38 RoarMan wrote:
Feedback > Ghosts.

Protoss may no longer have to fear EMP!


that creates a weird caster war

feedback > ghost
snipe > templar
Moderatorpachi fanclub http://goto.tl/6DI9 。◕‿◕。
pioneer8
Profile Joined January 2010
United States143 Posts
February 26 2010 14:43 GMT
#28
Man, this is a nice update. It seems very assuredly that my WC3 skills (with my little SC1 training) will translate directly into being good at SC2.


Ohhh Feedback sounds so awesome... haha.


To most people, it seems kind of dinky, but to a micro player, it gets me excited. ^^
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
February 26 2010 14:45 GMT
#29
On February 26 2010 23:40 pachi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2010 23:38 RoarMan wrote:
Feedback > Ghosts.

Protoss may no longer have to fear EMP!


that creates a weird caster war

feedback > ghost
snipe > templar
aah but also
emp > templar so it becomes a western style dual
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
pachi
Profile Joined October 2006
Melbourne5338 Posts
February 26 2010 14:46 GMT
#30
On February 26 2010 23:45 Plexa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2010 23:40 pachi wrote:
On February 26 2010 23:38 RoarMan wrote:
Feedback > Ghosts.

Protoss may no longer have to fear EMP!


that creates a weird caster war

feedback > ghost
snipe > templar
aah but also
emp > templar so it becomes a western style dual


i think a ghost would die from a psi storm too
Moderatorpachi fanclub http://goto.tl/6DI9 。◕‿◕。
pioneer8
Profile Joined January 2010
United States143 Posts
February 26 2010 14:46 GMT
#31
I'm interested in the range difference between feedback and EMP. I'm assuming that feedback has a slightly longer range.
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24633 Posts
February 26 2010 15:16 GMT
#32
To be fair more than 5 minutes of warning was given before the patch. I remember noticing at least 10 minutes but I was in game before that and could have possibly even missed a 15 minute warning. I was going over my rep when the timer hit 0 and it didn't kick me off until I finished the rep :3
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
jhNz
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Germany2762 Posts
February 26 2010 15:19 GMT
#33
haven't read through the thread, but does mass recall recall probes too?

would be a nice "last man standing" spell XD
http://twitter.com/jhNz
kaisr
Profile Joined October 2007
Canada715 Posts
February 26 2010 15:23 GMT
#34
i feel sad that i never got to experience the mothership in all its imba glory =[=[
diehilde
Profile Joined September 2008
Germany1596 Posts
February 26 2010 15:31 GMT
#35
I have to agree, overall a very good patch that shows they wont smash their carefully created balance just because of some whining. The Infestor unfortunately still seems pretty useless, especially the fact that it takes friggin 8 seconds to deal the measly 36 damage. If it was dealt in like 3-4 seconds it would be much more viable imo.
Savior: "I will cheat everyone again in SC2!" - SCII Beta Tester
SirGlinG
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Sweden933 Posts
February 26 2010 15:57 GMT
#36
I don't have a beta key, but my thoughts on mass recall are kind of negative.

I don't mind that it's a slow mother ship, it'll make the observer experience quite epic to see a mother ship coming in from behind the enemys base in slow motion, the effect of the recall.
But That it's ALL the units...
Think about a tvp where the Terran is half way on his push to the protoss base. Then a recall/2 recalls comes up in the terrans main.
He'll either back up with enough or all of his units. Or all in push the protoss base.

In sc2 the protoss isn't recalling a group or 2. He's recalling all of his units, there's no chance of recalling them back if u'd for some reason would want that.
It's an instant all in move and u have no chance to defend your base except for workers and reinforcements.

We'll see what the effects are on the games in time but I think the game will be too locked when you automaticly recall all your units.

A solution would be that you recall as in sc1 BUT you recall all the units that aren't in the area where you click recall.
Meaning that there's a choice of recalling all your units and a choice for leaving a certain amount of units to defend or attack an expansion of the terran.

What do you guys think, You who actually have played the game?
Not my chair. Not my problem. That's what I say
Freezard
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Sweden1010 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-26 16:40:44
February 26 2010 16:35 GMT
#37
Chrono boost would fill the ladder with P/Z and there would just be too many different 'imba rushes' you could do that it would be impossible to prepare for what's coming, especially with the gas sharing. Good move by Blizzard imo.

EDIT: Uh and yea SC2 is not even at 1.0 yet, technically you can't say it's the first patch for SC2 but for SC2 Beta.

Nice benchmarks too, seems SC2 is easy on the system and won't require a current-gen system but could do very well with a 1 year old PC.
SturmAddict
Profile Joined October 2009
Malaysia176 Posts
February 26 2010 16:36 GMT
#38
Its an end-game move. So most of the time there will be at least 6-7 gateways on 2 bases.
protoss can easily get 15 units up with the warp gates for defence should it be needed.
petered
Profile Joined February 2010
United States1817 Posts
February 26 2010 16:37 GMT
#39
I imagine the 2v2 chrono boost was taken out because even if it isn't a huge advantage, it is probably enough of one that you would basically have to have a P on your team if you wanted to be competitive. Add that to the fact that pretty much all competitive teams already have a Z, and then you have no race variation.

Still, I agree, I thought it really opened up a lot of strategic options.
This, my friends, is the power of the Shikyo Memorial for QQ therapy thread. We make the world a better place, one chainsaw massacre prevention at a time.
3FFA
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States3931 Posts
February 26 2010 16:55 GMT
#40
On February 26 2010 23:46 pachi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2010 23:45 Plexa wrote:
On February 26 2010 23:40 pachi wrote:
On February 26 2010 23:38 RoarMan wrote:
Feedback > Ghosts.

Protoss may no longer have to fear EMP!


that creates a weird caster war

feedback > ghost
snipe > templar
aah but also
emp > templar so it becomes a western style dual


i think a ghost would die from a psi storm too


this means that Ghost= terrans' version of templar= protoss' version of ghost= GHOST=TEMPLAR!
"As long as it comes from a pure place and from a honest place, you know, you can write whatever you want."
seRapH
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9719 Posts
February 26 2010 17:12 GMT
#41
lol artosis, so screwed XD
boomer hands
LuDwig-
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Italy1143 Posts
February 26 2010 17:19 GMT
#42
we hope that the game will evolve better and better..we have simply to wait
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=120015&currentpage=98<--Search the HotBid's Post
Shield
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Bulgaria4824 Posts
February 26 2010 17:31 GMT
#43
SC2 looks more like SC1 now.
hyst.eric.al
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States2332 Posts
February 26 2010 17:48 GMT
#44
keep up the great work! even though i don't have a freaking beta key, i enjoy reading the updates. makes me feel like a part of the SC2 beta community
Leta , BeSt, Calm fan forever! 김정우, I am sorry I ever lost faith in you.
Sok4R
Profile Joined November 2006
Germany124 Posts
February 26 2010 18:02 GMT
#45
Even at the highest resolution numbering almost double the amount of pixels it does not reflect back on the frame rate of Starcraft 2. I have yet to explain this behavior, but obviously this is interesting to say the least. There is a slight drop, but that could also be explained by the nature of the tests.

I have an idea for this: A higher resolution puts more load only onto the GPU, not the CPU (or say something like 99,9%, your CPU isn't affected much by the output resolution) . Looks like SC2 is heavily limited by the CPU, as most RTS games (or games with a top-down-view) are. Also, in your "older" PC is a quite new and good graphics card.
To prove that, you should make benchmarks with different CPUs, but the same GPU and vice versa. Right now, you got completly different systems, which make a good indication on how the game runs on them. But it's not a good setup for benchmarking and see which component of the system limits performance.
Frag Everything that isn't you
crate
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States2474 Posts
February 26 2010 18:28 GMT
#46
@SirGlinG:

From what I've seen, mass recall works exactly like SC1 recall. You target an area, all your units in the targeted area are warped to the mothership.

I think you're misunderstanding it.

Nice article, too bad I can't play SC2
We did. You did. Yes we can. No. || http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/crate.html || twitch.tv/crate3333
Titusmaster6
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States5937 Posts
February 26 2010 18:41 GMT
#47
The Mothership changes seem really bad imo. But I agree that overall stuff looks better! Thanks for the updates.
Shorts down shorts up, BOOM, just like that.
Synwave
Profile Joined July 2009
United States2803 Posts
February 26 2010 19:54 GMT
#48
Nice update and articles on the patch and low end benchmarking.
I am also glad they didn't nerf zerg. I have watched a number of platinum level plays where it wasn't imba and the terran or toss scouted, prepared for it, and countered it with relative ease.
♞Nerdrage is the cause of global warming♞
0mgVitaminE
Profile Joined February 2009
United States1278 Posts
February 26 2010 19:57 GMT
#49
Haha i like the part about Artosis. Ive been on both ends of something like that, but not such a huge gap, more like 20-25 points.
Hi there. I'm in a cave, how bout you?
tedster
Profile Joined May 2009
984 Posts
February 26 2010 20:14 GMT
#50
I know that crying foul for roaches is played out but right now ZvZ is the most boring game imaginable. You literally just make the bastards forever, and it's not remotely interesting.
the last wcs commissioner
Polygamy
Profile Joined January 2010
Austria1114 Posts
February 26 2010 20:39 GMT
#51
Its great to see that Blizzard is being proactive and willing to implement different things to balance the game.
WheelOfTime
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Canada331 Posts
February 26 2010 21:11 GMT
#52
Excellent, this means I'll be able to 2560x1600 8xAA 16xAA Max settings @ 80FPS with my i7/5870 setup.

I like.
meeple
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Canada10211 Posts
February 26 2010 21:32 GMT
#53
I wish the neural parasite could last longer, or something that would make it more useful. Thanks for the update and I feel sad for Artosis...
danl9rm
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States3111 Posts
February 26 2010 21:38 GMT
#54
actually, Insane, if you hold your cursor over the arrows on the ladder it says it's from the previous week. so, the up and down arrows correspond to whether you moved up or down over the past week.
"Science has so well established that the preborn baby in the womb is a living human being that most pro-choice activists have conceded the point. ..since the abortion proponents have lost the science argument, they are now advocating an existential one."
520
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States2822 Posts
February 26 2010 21:45 GMT
#55
I want a video of someone stopping Medivac drops with Feedback >_>
Writer
JWD
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States12607 Posts
February 26 2010 21:48 GMT
#56
really interesting article dudes

loved the 2v2 strategies HB!
✌
Geo.Rion
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
7377 Posts
February 26 2010 22:06 GMT
#57
wait!
You say the mutalisks are actually OVERpowered? To me they seemed quite useless, i never seen them being effetive, only if they cought the opponent absolutely off-guard
"Protoss is a joke" Liquid`Jinro Okt.1. 2011
Insane
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States4991 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-26 22:38:19
February 26 2010 22:37 GMT
#58
On February 27 2010 07:06 Geo.Rion wrote:
wait!
You say the mutalisks are actually OVERpowered? To me they seemed quite useless, i never seen them being effetive, only if they cought the opponent absolutely off-guard

I don't think Mutalisks are overpowered.

On February 27 2010 06:38 danl9rm wrote:
actually, Insane, if you hold your cursor over the arrows on the ladder it says it's from the previous week. so, the up and down arrows correspond to whether you moved up or down over the past week.

Really? I swear I tried that
Floydian
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United Kingdom374 Posts
February 26 2010 22:42 GMT
#59
Not that it really matters now, but what did phase shift do?
Exteray
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States1094 Posts
February 26 2010 22:46 GMT
#60
I actually got like a 10 minute warning before system shutdown :o
Liquid`HayprO
Profile Joined March 2003
Iraq1230 Posts
February 26 2010 22:46 GMT
#61
On February 26 2010 22:33 cyclone25 wrote:
what about the "move" command turning into "attack-move" that is really annoying when you try to scout. was this fixed?


this bug is by far the biggest problem. its rlly ruining so many games
Team LiquidOur friendship will be the stuff of legend.
Insane
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States4991 Posts
February 26 2010 22:56 GMT
#62
On February 27 2010 07:46 haypro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2010 22:33 cyclone25 wrote:
what about the "move" command turning into "attack-move" that is really annoying when you try to scout. was this fixed?


this bug is by far the biggest problem. its rlly ruining so many games

Yeah seriously, WHAT IS GOING ON HERE?!?!?
I'm fighting Zealot v Zealot and I have a few less Zealots so I pull back towards my base (and I distinctly right clicked it, not a-move), then go back to look at my base quickly (after all, I don't need to look at my Zealots walk home...). Half of them suddenly turn around to start fighting (and no they were not surrounded or anything).
Wtf?
NET
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States703 Posts
February 27 2010 08:57 GMT
#63
I played the beta at my friend's house for the first time a few days ago. After I win a decently long PvZ, I leave to take a break(leaving the game on). I come back to see the game gone and unable to log back in. I was so sad that I thought I broke it somehow but this article thankfully cleared things up!

On another note, playing SC2 is just a beautiful thing. Something about it, the game is pure genius. Can't wait to see the game get more balanced as time goes on. Just can't wait for the game to come out!
"Dark Templar are the saviors of the Protoss Race." -Artosis
NET
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States703 Posts
February 27 2010 09:07 GMT
#64
On February 27 2010 07:42 Floydian wrote:
Not that it really matters now, but what did phase shift do?

Phase Shift makes a target enemy unit disappear temporarily. Phased units are immune to all damage and most effects, but are unable to attack or use abilities
"Dark Templar are the saviors of the Protoss Race." -Artosis
Talic_Zealot
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
688 Posts
February 27 2010 09:25 GMT
#65
Excellent article! Really enjoyed reading, keep the good stuff coming, TL.
There are three types of people in the universe: those who can count, and those who cant.
Iri
Profile Joined January 2010
150 Posts
February 27 2010 09:40 GMT
#66
So late-game PvT is now all about who can use their casters to one-shot the other person's casters while trying to retain enough energy to affect the overall battle? Hmmm...
Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
pRo9aMeR
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
595 Posts
February 27 2010 09:40 GMT
#67
excellent write up!! I don't have a beta key but like someone said earlier, I feel like I'm part of the beta community.

First time I saw someone using chrono boost on their ally I got all these visions of 2v2 strategies in my head...now they'll remain dreams. It'd be nice if they brought it back in some modified way.
In training...let's play, gg! d^..^b
Navane
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Netherlands2745 Posts
February 27 2010 15:20 GMT
#68
You can say about AMM what you want, but it surely beats clicking on timed out games on bnet (
FragKrag
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States11549 Posts
March 01 2010 03:54 GMT
#69
Hm the differences between the resolutions really is surprising. I would expect much more variation than what is actually shown o_O. I wonder if it will change if SC2 supports AA/AF...

I do have a request though. Could you switch out that AMD Athlon 64 with an Athlon 64X2 somehow? I'd like to see the difference between the two CPUs. It could give more indication of how well SC2 is threaded, show how CPU dependent SC2 is, and the Athlon 64 might also be bottlenecking the ATi 4670.

Thanks for the benches prayanavita/Insane/HotBid
*TL CJ Entusman #40* "like scissors does anything to paper except MAKE IT MORE NUMEROUS" -paper
scdude2
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada11 Posts
March 01 2010 05:23 GMT
#70
--- Nuked ---
KaKu87
Profile Joined February 2010
Germany3 Posts
March 01 2010 21:44 GMT
#71
you should use low details at least two years, after that hight details would look like sc3!!!
Striverz-G
Profile Joined February 2010
United States63 Posts
March 07 2010 22:26 GMT
#72
On February 27 2010 07:46 haypro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2010 22:33 cyclone25 wrote:
what about the "move" command turning into "attack-move" that is really annoying when you try to scout. was this fixed?


this bug is by far the biggest problem. its rlly ruining so many games


its not a bug, use the "move" command (M) for your scout
the default is attack-move which is an improvement
I get it in.
Normal
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