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As promised, the medic list:
Ace - VERY strong player. Has seriously influenced basically every game he has played.
Ver - Probably the best behavioral analyst the town has.
semioldguy - I was quite impressed with the way he managed the town last game. Strong player.
camlito - One of the better players in the town.
showtime! - He is active and smart. Very dangerous for the mafia to leave alive.
LTT - I have worked with him closely in several games. He was my biggest help for setting up the mass hatter bombings.
Medics, please do not protect anyone other than those people unless you are SURE you are protecting a townie who is DEFINITELY going to take a hit in your mind. In other words, protect people on that list.
The reasoning behind this list is pretty simple. The mafia can choose to hit players not on this list. That is fine. If they do, the town keeps their strongest players alive. If the mafia wants to kill our strongest players, they will have to worry about medics protecting them and will likely stack hits or risk a medic protection.
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Ok I will reiterate because there appears to be some confusion on the subject.
If you take a hit: Report it in the thread. It doesn't matter if you were saved by a medic or are a veteran. Do NOT say which event happened. The mafia do not know this. Just inform the thread that you took a hit.
If you are a medic and you make a save: During night 1, the contract killer and vigilantes cannot be active. Therefore, the person you saved MUST be innocent. PM them. You cannot be confirmed to the town as a whole, but you can trust that player and work with them for the rest of the game.
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On April 24 2009 04:43 semioldguy wrote:
I think a few more people should be added to that list if you ask me.
Who do you recommend? This is obviously a balancing act between nabbing all the best players and spreading out the medics. I doubt BC has more than 3 medics this game because it is smaller than last game and there are veterans.
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On April 24 2009 05:44 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2009 04:30 Qatol wrote:
Ok I will reiterate because there appears to be some confusion on the subject.
If you take a hit: Report it in the thread. It doesn't matter if you were saved by a medic or are a veteran. Do NOT say which event happened. The mafia do not know this. Just inform the thread that you took a hit.
If you are a medic and you make a save: During night 1, the contract killer and vigilantes cannot be active. Therefore, the person you saved MUST be innocent. PM them. You cannot be confirmed to the town as a whole, but you can trust that player and work with them for the rest of the game. I have a few points: 1. If someone waits to claim they were medic protected in the thread until the medic claims to them through PM it lowers the ability for mafia to make some sort of fake claim, although a fake claim might be kind of stupid it could out a medic if handled incorrectly or cause more damage perhaps. 2. A veteran calling out they lost a life has at least one disadvantage. A mafia hitting someone and having them not die might think they are medic protected and just move on and leave them alone (mafia moved on from me last game after trying once and seeing i was medic protected). If a vet role calls after a hit, medics still have little reason to trust that and switch their protection so that vet would lose potential deterrence. Maybe there's some advantage(s) that outweigh(s) that but I don't know that we should be giving clues to mafia on whether they are dealing with medics or vets now that vets are back in the equation (they weren't in the last game).
Do NOT say which event happened. The mafia do not know this. Just inform the thread that you took a hit. Nobody should be claiming they were medic protected. Nobody should claim they are a veteran who took a hit. All they are doing is informing the thread that they survived a hit. The mafia already knows this happened (because they sent the hit in the first place). The town does not.
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t_co:
One suspicious strategy Blues should be worried about is the GF roleplaying detective and then roleclaiming to townies. It would be nearly impossible to thwart this strategy if he did it. However one way to thwart it would be to have everyone roleclaim to Qatol, then having Qatol serve as a hub for all information, sharing his information in pieces only with confirmed Blues (confirmed via detective).
Not a good idea. I haven't been confirmed as town-aligned. Blues should NOT be mass-claiming to me (or anyone else for that matter). In fact, they shouldn't be roleclaiming to ANYONE if they can help it. The exception to this being medics who make a save night 1.
1) Kind of tilts toward mafia inactivity. To make sure this strategy has proper payoff, we need to create an active list and threaten lynch of people on the list if several are mafiakilled. E.g. list of 10 actives, then if more than 5 are killed, remaining 5 should be lynched. That would force mafia to target inactives, or if they continued targeting actives after the town makes that threat, then that is sure sign that mafia lurk in actives.
The problem with this is what if the mafia deliberately hit a list where they know they have no players? We waste a ton of lynches/vigi hits on our active players.......
Also another idea: whenever we send PMs to one another concerning mafia, we both send a copy of the PM to Qatol. This will allow him to gradually build up a network of confirmed blues/townies with which to begin analysis.
Again, there is no reason to think I can be trusted. Having a central hub for all information is really risky when that player is not confirmed. Instead I think people should be working closely trying to establish trust with each other. Summaries can be passed from circle to circle that way, but the material passed should mostly be suspects, not suspected innocents (but talk to people directly about your suspected innocents!).
We can no longer rely on mafia remaining inactive. It's way too easy for the godfather or even regular mafia to be active and muss things up, so we should try to use a bunch of truth-telling mechanisms to ensure core discussion safety.
This is definitely true. Everyone you talk to should be viewed with suspcion. You must convince yourself that they are probably innocent. Even if you do that, do NOT share your role with them.
We should come up with a list of players which match clues from Day 1, 3, 5, etc
and from
Day 2, 4, 6 etc (since mafioso alternate days)
How exactly do you know this? I know for a fact that last time BC ran a game, he gave clues to the same person like 3 days in a row because they pissed him off.
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Ok I don't know what is going on..........
Anyways, it seems that the mafia were legitimate targets last night some how........
Medics: Do NOT PM anyone if you made a save. That person is no longer confirmed as innocent.
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On April 26 2009 02:33 Tricode wrote:
So does that mean those who are hit shouldn't call out either?
No you should still call out. The only difference is that the people who were hit cannot be assumed innocent
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On April 26 2009 08:52 semioldguy wrote:
I got a couple PM's from Pyrrhuloxia during Day One, but nothing that made me think he was a detective or that he was talking to or had revealed anything to others. Not much content in the PM's. He seemed suspicious of 3clipse and had me check his post edit in the voting thread, but it wasn't anything significant.
Based off of his activity he was likely contacting others, but he didn't give me any hints as to who they could be. People who were talking to any of the now dead players should come forward and say what they were talking about with them. This will help as we will know what these players were thinking but afraid to post in the thread. Now that we know they are innocent we can look at their opinions in that light.
In the same respect anyone who was talking with Bockit should also come forward and let us know what his opinions in private were, because knowing he is mafia changes the way we see those opinions and hiding that information would be bad for the town.
I will admit I was talking to both Bockit and pyrrhuluxia. my conversation with Bockit was short, but do you REALLY want me to post my conversations with pyrr - I have 21 PMs from him..... (my inbox looked like the thread for a while - he calls it "verbal diarrhea)?
Pyrr accused:
showtime! malongo dreamflower 0cz3c 3 lions Quickstriker coolcrimefighter malongo again inertinept 0cz3c again (and yes, it is likely I'm missing a few)
Bockit:
+ Show Spoiler +
Haha yeah, day 1 clues are the worst things haha. I still laugh at the pika chu thing from last game.
And I agree, I'm definitely lower profile than those players.
I've got to go to my after-graduation drinks thing for my uni class (I still have to wait another year ) So I have to bail, but yeah, we need to keep the town active so we can try to trip up some mafia.
-----------------------------------------
Original Message:
Yeah also shortly after I sent that JeeJee started posting. He definitely isn't worth lynching. But he should be watched. Right now, I think coolcrimefighter is our best bet.
Only major thing I think is important right now in the thread is my medic post. (Do you agree with it? I'm afraid of making it much longer because that would just create a target list like last game.)
Can't do anything about inertinept. At least we TRIED to make a decent decision.
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Original Message:
Suspicious? Yes. Worth lynching him over? In my experience with mafia so far, no. Same as Rage.
I just woke up and am responding to pms before I read the thread, so I don't know if anything has been worked on but the town really needs to stay active. Any plans we develop aren't going to happen until people are able to judge others as blue/green/red so until the day clues we should promote activity in the thread.
Sucks about inertinept btw I wish people would play more intelligently.
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Original Message:
What do you think about JeeJee? Like Rage he isn't posting in the mafia thread. However, they are both posting in the Dota thread.......
+ Show Spoiler +
I don't know if I'd call it insight into the situation, it just really comes across as the usual 'newish member' trying to fit in with one of the 'cool' mods that seems to happen all the time here
Hmm, a stronger target? I'm not sure I won't lie I haven't got any huge suspects yet
I could be wrong about quickstriker, my gut says he's not mafia but if you were to pick him I can't imagine anyone complaining (lack of anyone else to pick at this stage really).
Rage is another suspicion of mine. He's been in the staff IRC channel since the thread has come up and I've been aware of it. Normally it's a pretty daunting task to read the first day or so of the thread (I know last game I put this off for half a day, made it worse but w/e) but this thread is only 13~ pages or so, with 5-6 pages of signup stuff that you can pretty much ignore.
But that doesn't mean he's mafia and Rage tends not to post so much iirc from other games, he could be a hiding blue and it would suck to hit a blue.
Looking back that's not really much help for picking a target , I'll keep in touch though with any thoughts.
Thanks for the confidence vote It is reciprocated.
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Original Message:
Look, I think you are a pretty good player and you seem to have some insight into the situation that I don't have. Quickstriker's defense seems a lot like Tricode's from last game to me.
That being said, I would like to hear who you think is a stronger target for my lynch.
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On April 26 2009 09:56 Qatol wrote:Bockit: + Show Spoiler +
-------------------------------------------Bockit
Haha yeah, day 1 clues are the worst things haha. I still laugh at the pika chu thing from last game.
And I agree, I'm definitely lower profile than those players.
I've got to go to my after-graduation drinks thing for my uni class (I still have to wait another year ) So I have to bail, but yeah, we need to keep the town active so we can try to trip up some mafia.
-----------------------------------------Qatol
Original Message:
Yeah also shortly after I sent that JeeJee started posting. He definitely isn't worth lynching. But he should be watched. Right now, I think coolcrimefighter is our best bet.
Only major thing I think is important right now in the thread is my medic post. (Do you agree with it? I'm afraid of making it much longer because that would just create a target list like last game.)
Can't do anything about inertinept. At least we TRIED to make a decent decision.
-----------------------------------------Bockit
Original Message:
Suspicious? Yes. Worth lynching him over? In my experience with mafia so far, no. Same as Rage.
I just woke up and am responding to pms before I read the thread, so I don't know if anything has been worked on but the town really needs to stay active. Any plans we develop aren't going to happen until people are able to judge others as blue/green/red so until the day clues we should promote activity in the thread.
Sucks about inertinept btw I wish people would play more intelligently.
-----------------------------------------Qatol
Original Message:
What do you think about JeeJee? Like Rage he isn't posting in the mafia thread. However, they are both posting in the Dota thread.......
----------------------------------------------------------Bockit
I don't know if I'd call it insight into the situation, it just really comes across as the usual 'newish member' trying to fit in with one of the 'cool' mods that seems to happen all the time here
Hmm, a stronger target? I'm not sure I won't lie I haven't got any huge suspects yet
I could be wrong about quickstriker, my gut says he's not mafia but if you were to pick him I can't imagine anyone complaining (lack of anyone else to pick at this stage really).
Rage is another suspicion of mine. He's been in the staff IRC channel since the thread has come up and I've been aware of it. Normally it's a pretty daunting task to read the first day or so of the thread (I know last game I put this off for half a day, made it worse but w/e) but this thread is only 13~ pages or so, with 5-6 pages of signup stuff that you can pretty much ignore.
But that doesn't mean he's mafia and Rage tends not to post so much iirc from other games, he could be a hiding blue and it would suck to hit a blue.
Looking back that's not really much help for picking a target , I'll keep in touch though with any thoughts.
Thanks for the confidence vote It is reciprocated.
----------------------------------------- Qatol
Original Message:
Look, I think you are a pretty good player and you seem to have some insight into the situation that I don't have. Quickstriker's defense seems a lot like Tricode's from last game to me.
That being said, I would like to hear who you think is a stronger target for my lynch.
There is confusion about who said what. I have labeled the speaker
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I am trying to be VERY generous with the term "inactive" but have made another list. For god's sake people. Don't join this game if you can't say anything.
Here is the list of inactives:
13. Mandalor
19. Hyperbola
25. Camlito
26. Mynock
28. Versatile
29. 3 Lions
32. truthbringer
36. Rage
37. Motbob
39. Blue_Arrow
43. Amber[light]
44. Zapling
45. Aznvaliance
46. Laxercannon
50. scamp
51. goodwill
52. CompX
53. coolcrimefighter
54. YDG
55. Mista
People on the list who voted:
29. 3 Lions
32. truthbringer
46. Laxercannon
50. scamp
51. goodwill
53. coolcrimefighter
54. YDG
List of people with 1 one-liner post, but posted SOMETHING:
13. Mandalor - "just posting to say I'm not inactive. I'll try to catch up later."
19. Hyperbola - "Hello my fellow townies. Just letting y'all know that I am active I've just been rather busy lately."
36. Rage - Tells me I am quick to make inactivity conclusions and theorizes about how the DTs got hit (2 posts total, both with very little content)
43. Amber[light] - explained that his finals start in a little over a week
44. Zapling - "vote me for mayor wooo ill be a good one" "we did last game -.-" (referring to a mayoral lynch of a mafioso)
50. scamp - Posted about his reasoning for voting, said he is too intimidated to post
51. goodwill - "cool, let's lynch quickstirker next" "I think our next lynch candidate should be one of the individuals in the detectives' circles, the chance of one family being able to hit 2 detectives together is one out of 3025."
53. coolcrimefighter - "well I've recently gotten addicted to altitude so thats why I've been inactive to make myself unshady here are some infoz about me
I am a D protoss
my name is coolcrimefighter
I am not shady" "indeed" "I think you guys are reading into my name too much"
55. Mista - “Still taking my own sweet time ..”
List of people I consider to be exceptions due to school:
7.Fishball - “I would not have access to TL from Thursday to Sunday (Back on Sunday).”
10. Ver - "Due to an intense finals period I won't be on until a brief bit friday, and then I will probably go do research and will be tied up until mon/tues."
24. Mikeymoo - "mikeymoo and I are going to be inactive for about 24 hours due to an upcoming final. Sorry" (monoxide posted this)
27. Mynock - "It's a bit difficult for me to keep up with it all ATM due to exam papers and lots of translation work to do (some other people mentioned, it's exams season for some of us now :o)"
47. Monoxide - “mikeymoo and I are going to be inactive for about 24 hours due to an upcoming final. Sorry”
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As for suspects: again, we have very little to go on. People I would encourage taking a look at:
Monoxide - he has said he has exams. Shouldn't they be over by now? He has also been linked to decently strong clues in each of the first 2 posts.
Versatile - She hasn't posted AT ALL. Since she is Ace's friend, I would assume that she is about his age and is done with school? Not sure on that. Regardless, being this quiet is totally out of character for her.
3 lions - he voted in the day 2 lynch thread but has still made 0 posts in the mafia thread. Obviously he is reading the thread at least a little because he is voting for a decently common suspect.
FakeSteve[TPR] - He was posting decently actively until he lost the election. He has gone completely quiet since then.
My personal pick right now? Versatile. In both games she has played, she has not been red (veteran in AMW, miller hit by mafia last game). Her style has completely changed for this game.
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Another suspect I forgot to mention:
JeeJee: He is also acting completely out of character. He got in on the confusion about the mafia hitting each other last night, but otherwise he has been really quiet. Usually he is pretty involved in clue analysis. Another negative point is that Bockit drew attention away from him. Has he been linked to clues at all?
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On April 26 2009 22:36 mikeymoo wrote:
Regarding Monoxide, I can let the town know this (I know him irl, but we don't live in the same city anymore).
He was done finals a couple days ago, and had the whole of yesterday to post. I'm pretty sure he's reading the thread, as he keeps asking me over msn if I've read mafia or how the game is going etc etc.
In previous discussions I've had with him, he tells me how OP mafia is, and how easy it would be to win with red alignment. His mind games are very strong, so although he's not posting, he's both a liability and an asset (depending on his alignment, obviously).
If he checks TL, it's probably in the afternoon at his time, so in roughly 6 hours I'd imagine. I shot him a PM to tell him to get active and explain himself, essentially. I think I played one game with him and he never asked how the game was going or what not. He wasn't mafia that game.
I don't think the evidence is insurmountable, but it's something to keep in mind.
At this point in time, I'd lean towards behaviour analysis moreso than clue analysis.
I'd like to call attention to this post and emphasize that the case against Monoxide is not only clue-related, but also STRONGLY behavioral-related. I'm willing to follow mikeymoo's lead on this one. He is a smart, well-known player who is risking his own reputation to call out a friend who is acting strangely. That is good enough for me when combined with the other evidence compiled.
Another thing I'd like to mention is that right now we have more suspects than we can handle. Versatile, Monoxide, JeeJee, and Quickstriker are all strong suspects. This points to us using a double lynch on day 3 without even considering that we may have additional suspects by then.
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Reading the voting thread, I am seeing that many are adamantly against double lynching day 3. Why? Please persuade me that it isn't a good idea.
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On April 27 2009 06:06 Qatol wrote:
Reading the voting thread, I am seeing that many are adamantly against double lynching day 3. Why? Please persuade me that it isn't a good idea.
As for why I think it is a good idea, first of all, we get rolechecks tonight (assuming we have detectives left, we should have 1 or 2). second of all, I think we will have more players called out by day 3. Finally, we have lots of suspects I feel pretty good about right now.
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On April 27 2009 07:11 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2009 06:09 Qatol wrote:On April 27 2009 06:06 Qatol wrote:
Reading the voting thread, I am seeing that many are adamantly against double lynching day 3. Why? Please persuade me that it isn't a good idea. As for why I think it is a good idea, first of all, we get rolechecks tonight (assuming we have detectives left, we should have 1 or 2). second of all, I think we will have more players called out by day 3. Finally, we have lots of suspects I feel pretty good about right now. Unlike you, I don't feel great about any of our current suspects. But I will vote for double lynch in the hopes that greater confidence arises during the next day/night and we will have the lynch ready. Btw you haven't remarked on whether Pyrr ever said anything to you. Were you in contact before he died? I don't think you have to fear from admitting this, after all you have bg protection.
On page 22, I mentioned that I have talked to him a LOT via PMs.
On April 26 2009 09:56 Qatol wrote:
I will admit I was talking to both Bockit and pyrrhuluxia. my conversation with Bockit was short, but do you REALLY want me to post my conversations with pyrr - I have 21 PMs from him..... (my inbox looked like the thread for a while - he calls it "verbal diarrhea)?
Pyrr accused:
showtime! malongo dreamflower 0cz3c 3 lions Quickstriker coolcrimefighter malongo again inertinept 0cz3c again (and yes, it is likely I'm missing a few)
A basic summary was we were brainstorming on targets for clue analysis.
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Ok I have thought about our situation a little bit more and have decided to change my vote from monoxide to JeeJee. My reasoning:
1. The clues against monoxide just aren't believable.
2. He is hiding his evidence
3. He is attacking everyone who has accused him.
4. In doing #3 he gets stuff wrong. Showtime voted for Versatile, and I hadn't voted at the time.
Again, if anyone disagrees with my reasoning, make a case. Persuade me. Right now I think JeeJee's horrible defense is enough reason to lynch.
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On April 27 2009 09:15 Malongo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2009 06:04 Qatol wrote:On April 26 2009 22:36 mikeymoo wrote:
Regarding Monoxide, I can let the town know this (I know him irl, but we don't live in the same city anymore).
He was done finals a couple days ago, and had the whole of yesterday to post. I'm pretty sure he's reading the thread, as he keeps asking me over msn if I've read mafia or how the game is going etc etc.
In previous discussions I've had with him, he tells me how OP mafia is, and how easy it would be to win with red alignment. His mind games are very strong, so although he's not posting, he's both a liability and an asset (depending on his alignment, obviously).
If he checks TL, it's probably in the afternoon at his time, so in roughly 6 hours I'd imagine. I shot him a PM to tell him to get active and explain himself, essentially. I think I played one game with him and he never asked how the game was going or what not. He wasn't mafia that game.
I don't think the evidence is insurmountable, but it's something to keep in mind.
At this point in time, I'd lean towards behaviour analysis moreso than clue analysis. I'd like to call attention to this post and emphasize that the case against Monoxide is not only clue-related, but also STRONGLY behavioral-related. I'm willing to follow mikeymoo's lead on this one. He is a smart, well-known player who is risking his own reputation to call out a friend who is acting strangely. That is good enough for me when combined with the other evidence compiled.
Another thing I'd like to mention is that right now we have more suspects than we can handle. Versatile, Monoxide, JeeJee, and Quickstriker are all strong suspects. This points to us using a double lynch on day 3 without even considering that we may have additional suspects by then. This is the worst bullshit ive read from you all game. Period. Dont Vote double lynch. I made a post 2 pages back explaining why we MUST SAVE THEM. Our "suspects" are not even remotely confirmed, and the double lynchs is one of the few things that the town has. Read my post, Please. One more note: Given the history in the previous mafia game and some pms we interchanged then im looking at you with crying eyes, because you agreed that game that the first bad move from the town was using a double lynch without confirmed targets. Im serious, Qatol you just started looking mafia to me.
In the future, please PM the person first before calling them out like this. If the private response isn't acceptable, you have that much more ammo to accuse them with.
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Ok I guess I should probably pop in here and make a post. Yes, I haven't been around today. I apologize for that. I decided today would be a good day to catch back up on my work considering there was very little discussion between when I logged off yesterday and when I checked the thread this morning.
First of all, people are making far too big a deal of the double lynch post. Dreamflower pointed out what I had originally intended with it. I wanted to foster discussion. (Notice that is included in the post.) I haven't defended myself up to this point because I didn't see the point. I already knew I wasn't going to change the minds of anyone who was posting at that time.
Anyways, having read the thread, I have noticed that most of our suspects are actually ASKING to get lynched. I have decided to switch my votes to Versatile because we learn more from her lynch than anyone else's. Specifically, it tells us to suspect Ace and myself if she flips green/blue. Lynching JeeJee only tells us to suspect me if he flips green/blue. Lynching Quickstriker puts an end to the information about his activities in the bathroom (seriously dude, too much information). It looks to me like we have the most to gain from lynching Versatile.
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On April 28 2009 14:51 Qatol wrote:
I have decided to switch my votes to Versatile because we learn more from her lynch than anyone else's. Specifically, it tells us to suspect Ace and myself if she flips green/blue.
She turned blue. That sucks. Remember that the point of lynching her if she didn't turn red was to get information. I should be a suspect now as well as Ace.
Anyways, to the more pressing items.
The medic list:
Ver - Probably the best behavioral analyst the town has.
semioldguy - I was quite impressed with the way he managed the town last game. Strong player.
camlito - One of the better players in the town.
showtime! - He is active and smart. Very dangerous for the mafia to leave alive.
LTT - I have worked with him closely in several games. He was my biggest help for setting up the mass hatter bombings.
Caller - Strong player, has been a leader in several games.
You should have noticed that everyone on my list from last night is still alive. That is because this method works. You should also notice that I switched out Ace for Caller. This is because Ace is a big suspect right now. Suspects shouldn't be protected for 2 reasons:
1. If that player is NOT mafia, the mafia will likely avoid hitting him in the hopes that the town will lynch/vigi hit that player.
2. A vigilante may want to hit that player.
Detectives: you should be using a rolecheck tonight. Choose someone you think is likely to be guilty. Do NOT choose me (I show up as mayor). If you find a red with your check, try to find a mouth. If you find a non-red, they can still be the godfather. Please don't expose yourself to them.
Again, if anyone has any problems with any of this, I am open to comments/concerns. Persuade me!
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EPT
