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On June 09 2024 21:36 Trfel wrote:
@AlphaZero, for what it's worth I wasn't trying to "lead" anything.
@marvellosity, I'd consider lowering sandroba for sure. Maybe Vivax too but he might be fine there (I'm probably just paranoid). And I honestly would put Koshi higher, which I know you don't want to hear.
Could be wrong, the one game I played with mafia!Koshi had the slight issue of me also being mafia so I didn't play, so idk what mafia!Koshi is like, but if I had to guess I don't think it would be this.
@Oatsmaster, why wouldn't the reverse apply? Like, why wouldn't mafia be happy lynching town!Kelsi3r and saving the town!scott31337 lynch for tomorrow?
I have sort of a… privileged? view of Koshi in that I’ve played with him a million times and I sort of know what he should or shouldn’t be thinking if that makes sense. It’s hard to externalise this for others though, but I think you can see what I’m getting at by the posts I’ve directed at him this phase.
By contrast, the triumvirate in the middle (moc, Scott, DMB) I find it extremely difficult to walk in their shoes which makes them very challenging for me
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On June 09 2024 21:42 Trfel wrote:
Maybe Mocsta is mafia, definitely worth considering. I might not be scared enough of his scum play. I just have a soft spot for the way he posts tbh. It's hard to really figure out his alignment because we think so differently tbh.
His willingness to switch reads and try different angles makes me think he is town, but I suppose he could fake that as mafia.
I’m glad we can at least have a conversation about it at some stage. Although that’s making some nk assumptions xD
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On June 09 2024 21:42 Trfel wrote:
Maybe Mocsta is mafia, definitely worth considering. I might not be scared enough of his scum play. I just have a soft spot for the way he posts tbh. It's hard to really figure out his alignment because we think so differently tbh.
His willingness to switch reads and try different angles makes me think he is town, but I suppose he could fake that as mafia. oh my dude.. I probably thought we saw the game so closest. *Shrug* both our positions could be true
Separately
The stuff about could a town dmb be aware of tvt
1. From filter only reason I could imagine a kelsier vote is to sheep rsoultin whom dmb seems to town read. But vote is based on being a policy "inactiv" lunch when town read. Super scummy.
2. Why is vivax missing throughout filter whilst highlighted as critical focus at start
3. If Scott was scummy for setup talk, dmb is no different with a fair portion of filter focused on Scott history literally summarised as 'does small bs as town'; and other parts is az speculation
4. Dmb / rsoultin interactions to me.do.not look like mafia/mafia. Shame as koshi has been annoying and I'm liking dmb as mafia.
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On June 09 2024 21:53 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 21:36 Trfel wrote:
@AlphaZero, for what it's worth I wasn't trying to "lead" anything.
@marvellosity, I'd consider lowering sandroba for sure. Maybe Vivax too but he might be fine there (I'm probably just paranoid). And I honestly would put Koshi higher, which I know you don't want to hear.
Could be wrong, the one game I played with mafia!Koshi had the slight issue of me also being mafia so I didn't play, so idk what mafia!Koshi is like, but if I had to guess I don't think it would be this.
@Oatsmaster, why wouldn't the reverse apply? Like, why wouldn't mafia be happy lynching town!Kelsi3r and saving the town!scott31337 lynch for tomorrow? I have sort of a… privileged? view of Koshi in that I’ve played with him a million times and I sort of know what he should or shouldn’t be thinking if that makes sense. It’s hard to externalise this for others though, but I think you can see what I’m getting at by the posts I’ve directed at him this phase. By contrast, the triumvirate in the middle (moc, Scott, DMB) I find it extremely difficult to walk in their shoes which makes them very challenging for me Oh, I also think that some (a decent amount really) of Koshi's reasoning seems far-fetched, at least to me. My take is that Koshi actually believes it though? It's just very hard for me to say that someone can't possibly believe what they say they believe, I think that argument requires you to know someone really really well, and unless you really know what you are doing, you're far more likely to be wrong.
For example, I think that argument (this person should know better) was useful for catching mafia!raynpelikoneet a few games back, after he hard defended mafia!die_meatbaby and gave himself away in doing so. But that's a special case because I know raynpelikoneet was a strong player and he went to extreme lengths trying to keep die_meatbaby alive. Maybe you can make judgements like that about Koshi, I certainly am not capable of it.
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On June 09 2024 22:01 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 21:53 marvellosity wrote:On June 09 2024 21:36 Trfel wrote:
@AlphaZero, for what it's worth I wasn't trying to "lead" anything.
@marvellosity, I'd consider lowering sandroba for sure. Maybe Vivax too but he might be fine there (I'm probably just paranoid). And I honestly would put Koshi higher, which I know you don't want to hear.
Could be wrong, the one game I played with mafia!Koshi had the slight issue of me also being mafia so I didn't play, so idk what mafia!Koshi is like, but if I had to guess I don't think it would be this.
@Oatsmaster, why wouldn't the reverse apply? Like, why wouldn't mafia be happy lynching town!Kelsi3r and saving the town!scott31337 lynch for tomorrow? I have sort of a… privileged? view of Koshi in that I’ve played with him a million times and I sort of know what he should or shouldn’t be thinking if that makes sense. It’s hard to externalise this for others though, but I think you can see what I’m getting at by the posts I’ve directed at him this phase. By contrast, the triumvirate in the middle (moc, Scott, DMB) I find it extremely difficult to walk in their shoes which makes them very challenging for me Oh, I also think that some (a decent amount really) of Koshi's reasoning seems far-fetched, at least to me. My take is that Koshi actually believes it though? It's just very hard for me to say that someone can't possibly believe what they say they believe, I think that argument requires you to know someone really really well, and unless you really know what you are doing, you're far more likely to be wrong. For example, I think that argument (this person should know better) was useful for catching mafia!raynpelikoneet a few games back, after he hard defended mafia!die_meatbaby and gave himself away in doing so. But that's a special case because I know raynpelikoneet was a strong player and he went to extreme lengths trying to keep die_meatbaby alive. Maybe you can make judgements like that about Koshi, I certainly am not capable of it.
Yes, that’s fair.
I do think I can make judgments like that about Koshi is the net of it
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On June 09 2024 21:54 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 21:42 Trfel wrote:
Maybe Mocsta is mafia, definitely worth considering. I might not be scared enough of his scum play. I just have a soft spot for the way he posts tbh. It's hard to really figure out his alignment because we think so differently tbh.
His willingness to switch reads and try different angles makes me think he is town, but I suppose he could fake that as mafia. I’m glad we can at least have a conversation about it at some stage. Although that’s making some nk assumptions xD I mean we can talk about it now? xD
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On June 09 2024 22:03 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 21:54 marvellosity wrote:On June 09 2024 21:42 Trfel wrote:
Maybe Mocsta is mafia, definitely worth considering. I might not be scared enough of his scum play. I just have a soft spot for the way he posts tbh. It's hard to really figure out his alignment because we think so differently tbh.
His willingness to switch reads and try different angles makes me think he is town, but I suppose he could fake that as mafia. I’m glad we can at least have a conversation about it at some stage. Although that’s making some nk assumptions xD I mean we can talk about it now? xD
I haven’t got much to moan about mocstas recent posting in all honesty. Tbh maybe just take the stuff I’ve brought up previously and approach it with the mindset that he’s not town for the reasons you previously thought and see where that takes you?
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I’m attempting a hungover workout shortly so will get patchier with replies
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On June 09 2024 22:02 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 22:01 Trfel wrote:On June 09 2024 21:53 marvellosity wrote:On June 09 2024 21:36 Trfel wrote:
@AlphaZero, for what it's worth I wasn't trying to "lead" anything.
@marvellosity, I'd consider lowering sandroba for sure. Maybe Vivax too but he might be fine there (I'm probably just paranoid). And I honestly would put Koshi higher, which I know you don't want to hear.
Could be wrong, the one game I played with mafia!Koshi had the slight issue of me also being mafia so I didn't play, so idk what mafia!Koshi is like, but if I had to guess I don't think it would be this.
@Oatsmaster, why wouldn't the reverse apply? Like, why wouldn't mafia be happy lynching town!Kelsi3r and saving the town!scott31337 lynch for tomorrow? I have sort of a… privileged? view of Koshi in that I’ve played with him a million times and I sort of know what he should or shouldn’t be thinking if that makes sense. It’s hard to externalise this for others though, but I think you can see what I’m getting at by the posts I’ve directed at him this phase. By contrast, the triumvirate in the middle (moc, Scott, DMB) I find it extremely difficult to walk in their shoes which makes them very challenging for me Oh, I also think that some (a decent amount really) of Koshi's reasoning seems far-fetched, at least to me. My take is that Koshi actually believes it though? It's just very hard for me to say that someone can't possibly believe what they say they believe, I think that argument requires you to know someone really really well, and unless you really know what you are doing, you're far more likely to be wrong. For example, I think that argument (this person should know better) was useful for catching mafia!raynpelikoneet a few games back, after he hard defended mafia!die_meatbaby and gave himself away in doing so. But that's a special case because I know raynpelikoneet was a strong player and he went to extreme lengths trying to keep die_meatbaby alive. Maybe you can make judgements like that about Koshi, I certainly am not capable of it. Yes, that’s fair. I do think I can make judgments like that about Koshi is the net of it Sure, I'm not really in a place to verify those arguments is all.
I do think that's potentially the most commonly wrong type of argument people make, but that also makes sense due to how easy it is to misapply, and you're not an idiot so theoretically you should be fine 
My take on the slot was that rsoultin came off as town, grain of salt because I've missed her as mafia many, many times before, and I like that Koshi suspects sandroba because I think that's a good place to be (though the second part is unflipped association so that's probably stupid). Maybe Koshi is mafia because he isn't doing the whole "I'm bad at playing as mafia so I need to play bad to make my town game match my mafia game" thing? It would be pretty hilarious and awesome to get him for that, to be fair.
And yeah, I had been thinking of looking at previous Mocsta stuff, that's been overdue for me anyway.
On June 09 2024 21:57 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 21:42 Trfel wrote:
Maybe Mocsta is mafia, definitely worth considering. I might not be scared enough of his scum play. I just have a soft spot for the way he posts tbh. It's hard to really figure out his alignment because we think so differently tbh.
His willingness to switch reads and try different angles makes me think he is town, but I suppose he could fake that as mafia. oh my dude.. I probably thought we saw the game so closest. *Shrug* both our positions could be true Separately The stuff about could a town dmb be aware of tvt 1. From filter only reason I could imagine a kelsier vote is to sheep rsoultin whom dmb seems to town read. But vote is based on being a policy "inactiv" lunch when town read. Super scummy. 2. Why is vivax missing throughout filter whilst highlighted as critical focus at start 3. If Scott was scummy for setup talk, dmb is no different with a fair portion of filter focused on Scott history literally summarised as 'does small bs as town'; and other parts is az speculation 4. Dmb / rsoultin interactions to me.do.not look like mafia/mafia. Shame as koshi has been annoying and I'm liking dmb as mafia. I wasn't talking about our conclusions, moreso the reasoning you take to get there is a bit different from mine? Absolutely not a bad thing, in fact I think it's a good thing, just makes things complicated sometimes.
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Stop with the compliments already x
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On June 09 2024 22:14 marvellosity wrote:
Stop with the compliments already x Dang, if not being an idiot is a compliment, you must not have as big of an ego as I thought 
If anyone has a moment, curious if my perspective on scott31337 not re-evaluating his reads makes sense to anyone else? While it makes a lot of sense to me, if I'm wrong about this, it would be good to figure that out.
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Don’t tell anyone, but the secret is it’s all just hubris.
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On June 09 2024 22:17 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 22:14 marvellosity wrote:
Stop with the compliments already x Dang, if not being an idiot is a compliment, you must not have as big of an ego as I thought If anyone has a moment, curious if my perspective on scott31337 not re-evaluating his reads makes sense to anyone else? While it makes a lot of sense to me, if I'm wrong about this, it would be good to figure that out.
I’m struggling to make much of it either way?
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On June 09 2024 22:21 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 22:17 Trfel wrote:On June 09 2024 22:14 marvellosity wrote:
Stop with the compliments already x Dang, if not being an idiot is a compliment, you must not have as big of an ego as I thought If anyone has a moment, curious if my perspective on scott31337 not re-evaluating his reads makes sense to anyone else? While it makes a lot of sense to me, if I'm wrong about this, it would be good to figure that out. I’m struggling to make much of it either way? Hm.... I was thinking people would either strongly agree or disagree, how can you be stuck in the middle?
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mav what is the liklihood of trfel being mafia in your opinion?
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On June 09 2024 21:36 Trfel wrote:
@AlphaZero, for what it's worth I wasn't trying to "lead" anything.
@marvellosity, I'd consider lowering sandroba for sure. Maybe Vivax too but he might be fine there (I'm probably just paranoid). And I honestly would put Koshi higher, which I know you don't want to hear.
Could be wrong, the one game I played with mafia!Koshi had the slight issue of me also being mafia so I didn't play, so idk what mafia!Koshi is like, but if I had to guess I don't think it would be this.
@Oatsmaster, why wouldn't the reverse apply? Like, why wouldn't mafia be happy lynching town!Kelsi3r and saving the town!scott31337 lynch for tomorrow?
Because kel is an infinitely easier lynch tmr?
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[QUOTE]On June 09 2024 22:17 Trfel wrote:
[QUOTE]On June 09 2024 22:14 marvellosity wrote:
Stop with the compliments already x[/QUOTE]Dang, if not being an idiot is a compliment, you must not have as big of an ego as I thought
If anyone has a moment, curious if my perspective on scott31337 not re-evaluating his reads makes sense to anyone else? While it makes a lot of sense to me, if I'm wrong about this, it would be good to figure that out.[/QUOTE]
Its so bad its making me consider if you could be mafia, despite your engagement levels.
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On June 09 2024 22:23 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 22:21 marvellosity wrote:On June 09 2024 22:17 Trfel wrote:On June 09 2024 22:14 marvellosity wrote:
Stop with the compliments already x Dang, if not being an idiot is a compliment, you must not have as big of an ego as I thought If anyone has a moment, curious if my perspective on scott31337 not re-evaluating his reads makes sense to anyone else? While it makes a lot of sense to me, if I'm wrong about this, it would be good to figure that out. I’m struggling to make much of it either way? Hm.... I was thinking people would either strongly agree or disagree, how can you be stuck in the middle?
I don’t know how to answer this without being circular
Could he still hold those reads as town? Yes I think so
Could he be mafia sticking with the same reads? Yes why not
Am I missing something fundamental?
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On June 09 2024 22:24 AlphaZero wrote:
mav what is the liklihood of trfel being mafia in your opinion? I know self meta is stupid but of all the games for me to be mafia in, why the one where I stopped following my post count limits?
Like if you have an actual reason for me being mafia, other than just because I pushed something opposite to how you view the game, I'm quite curious.
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I don't understand the trfel hard defense of scott at all.
He is not able to get a town read that strong, its really off-putting.
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EPT
