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On June 08 2024 20:52 rsoultin wrote:
Cause now i have to try and convince someone objectively scummy =/= scum and thats exhausting
This is why mafia is so difficult and fun though. It’s the crux of the game!
One of the personal joys I get as a townie is I’m a smart, logical person but in mafia that doesn’t necessarily translate into being right. Its tantalising!
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On June 08 2024 20:57 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 20:47 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 20:39 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:36 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 20:34 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:18 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 08:38 Mocsta wrote:On June 08 2024 08:10 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 04:07 Trfel wrote:Having second thoughts about marvellosity. I think I do actually want to pursue this after all. On June 07 2024 22:27 marvellosity wrote:
[quote]
I agree with this, the logic doesn’t track. On June 08 2024 01:18 marvellosity wrote:
I actually agreed with sand’s take on kelsier (sort of as a response to Scott here)
When I read mocstas vote on kelsier “you’re being intentionally obtuse”, I just thought well that’s a townie trait if ever I heard one So marvellosity agreed with me that Kelsi3r's logic didn't make sense, but then still includes Kelsi3r in the "town" category because Mocsta said he was being obtuse and that's a town trait? Reading through marvellosity's filter, I do still like that he acknowledged my point on Kelsi3r, and I like his line of questioning to Mocsta about his read change on me (Trfel). But he hasn't done really anything else of substance? It looks like his top suspects are scott31337 and Mocsta, and other than putting scott31337 at the bottom of his list post, he hasn't even mentioned him. Just feels uncharacteristically disjointed. I don't get the impression that he is looking for mafia, and I don't get the impression that he cares enough about his (few) thoughts to remember them later. I can talk about this. I bought into what sand was selling me. So that’s why Scott and kelsier were where they were. Mocsta I was/am suspicious of, still primarily because I think he was making it up when he talked about the posts you made. aawwwwww Mate. I probably shouldn't have posted my first post Game started at 10 for me and earliest chance I had to read was 4 sitting on plane In short hectic mad day and I was so excited to make intro post for first time.in maybe 6years.. I see the length of the game and was like wtf I dont have time.to do this before take.off and lose reception. Quickly skim and rsoultin and trfel.poats were the ones where my mind just disconnected from. Could not engage So put it out there to just have out it out there I wouldn't say the post content was forced because it's how I felt at that moment, although the sentiment that I needed to post something , yes was forced It's also part of why I retracted once I landed and read thoroughly This is his explanation for the stuff I picked up on with regards to your early posting. I understand that people make mistakes (especially early) but do I buy this? Is it the right sort of mistake? Is it the sort of mistake town makes? It’s not carelessness, it’s a characterisation of your posts as forced/contrived. It’s difficult tbh. Hmm, honestly I didn't view this as a mistake. Maybe that's my error. But a lot of people expressed a similar sentiment regarding my early posting, unless I am missing something I don't think his claim itself was unreasonable at all. There is the part where he wasn't able to back it up with evidence upon request. It's a little strange, heck I bet I could go into my filter and fabricate the explanation in question, but I actually think it's maybe more likely to come from town. Possibilities: - Mocsta is town, and due to a few combined factors (plane flight/setting change, me posting more and him getting a more meaningful read on me which quite possibly colors his perception of previous posts), didn't read the earlier posts the same way - Mocsta is mafia, and instead of forcing an explanation, gave it up. Like, if it was me and I was mafia there, I'm 10000% giving a forced explanation there, even if I can't remember what I was initially thinking I'm gonna make something up. I would never back down there. Maybe Mocsta is just a different player from me but I don't actually see the mafia motivation for this? The claim is too vague and easy to provide fake reasoning for, honestly if he's mafia I think he took a much harder route by backing down from it. He’s admitting it as a mistake Trfel lol. Wtf? To the bolded: who exactly? Raynpelikoneet, rsoultin, sandroba, maybe even AlphaZero? And sure, Mocsta said it was a mistake, but I disagree  I think it's more likely that his perspective changed, causing him to interpret the same posts in a different way. I mean if you want to call that a mistake then sure, I wouldn't say that though. No no no. They did not say the same things. Commenting on your early posting is different from what/how they are commenting about. I guess even if they said different things, I interpreted the things people said to be coming from the same place/caused by the same things. Specifically, I was playing at a band concert and thus was on my phone and it was the start of the game and I was joking around and messing with people instead of actually playing the game. Eventually, I got home to my computer and there was more to talk about, and so this changed. People pointed out different things about the initial playstyle, but unless you can explain why some of those claims are more or less valid than others, I am not sure what you are getting at.
Even taking Mocsta out of the equation for a moment and talking generally
I dont grasp how you don’t understand the devil is in the detail? It matters in what way it is off, because it’s a mindset thing.
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On June 08 2024 21:00 Mocsta wrote:last post before date night.. life with kids gotta priortise! rsoultin must understand surely! Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 19:56 AlphaZero wrote:
Couple of thoughts after Mocsta interactions
- it seems to me like he is drawing conclusions and then making really terrible justifications for them rather than acting with a curious and open mind to determine alignments i have accepted your interpretation, although disagree in particular about a closed mind. i reckon you are confirmation biased here, i mean, yes i have been firm on you up to past couple pages, yet, at least in my mind have been open about discussing points. disagreeing about a conclusion is not the same as close minded because without anything new introduced, why would the outcome change? Show nested quote +- it seems to me he is cautious and almost apologetic when pushing me, despite being his 2nd? Largest scum read. Tracks as mafia lynching town, not as town who thinks they have got a lead on mafia. i can understand my push on you is unusual. im pretty sure i would find it weird too. i'm very certain my pushes on you are all in response to people, again, i think thats significant. we made 'peace' yesterday and i wasn't intentionally trying to break it. im very certain oats was pushing for my az reasoning so i said fuck it wont know until flips mate. although yes, im not an analytical player at the best of times so im ok with you stating this. doesnt make me mafia though unless its being used to push mafia agenda,, now this, i dont see you substantiate and again you would need flips to support. Show nested quote +the problem I am having is I do t know why he would play like this as either alignment.
- option 1 he is tying himself up into knots because he is pushing mafia agenda
-option 2 he is town and he legitimately thinks these things. i suppose one thing i  ON'T like here in option 1 is.. you dont call me mafia.. you say im pushing mafia agenda ironicaly i didnt realise this when i wrote about mafia agenda above btw.. i still think the purpose of this post aligns with town piecing together puzzles so its not a negative for me. i think it more points out subconsciously you know option 2 is true, and just dont want to admit it outloud.. its ok mate. i went through the same with you Show nested quote +I view option 1 more likely through my lens of how the game should be played, and what is reasonable to expect from town and mafia.
It seems trfel thinks the other option would be more likely.
I’d just like to get some more thoughts itt about this. for the record im equally active as mafia and town. i have *never* been called up for 'moc-logic' as mafia, again, i cant expect you to acknowledge or recognise that.. i guess the only thing i can ask here is.. what is my tone saying across these posts to you and marv. internally i feel mentally the same responding start of day and now, so hopefully you see that too
Thanks Mocsta. This is a fair post. Smart if you’re mafia to make the subconscious point about option 2, but it has given me pause.
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I guess I maybe don’t want to lynch Mocsta today, it probably helps me that I’m happy on scott atm.
More from viv/sand/DMB/kelsier now please.
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On June 08 2024 21:08 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 20:59 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 20:57 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:47 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 20:39 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:36 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 20:34 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:18 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 08:38 Mocsta wrote:On June 08 2024 08:10 marvellosity wrote:
[quote]
I can talk about this.
I bought into what sand was selling me. So that’s why Scott and kelsier were where they were.
Mocsta I was/am suspicious of, still primarily because I think he was making it up when he talked about the posts you made. aawwwwww Mate. I probably shouldn't have posted my first post Game started at 10 for me and earliest chance I had to read was 4 sitting on plane In short hectic mad day and I was so excited to make intro post for first time.in maybe 6years.. I see the length of the game and was like wtf I dont have time.to do this before take.off and lose reception. Quickly skim and rsoultin and trfel.poats were the ones where my mind just disconnected from. Could not engage So put it out there to just have out it out there I wouldn't say the post content was forced because it's how I felt at that moment, although the sentiment that I needed to post something , yes was forced It's also part of why I retracted once I landed and read thoroughly This is his explanation for the stuff I picked up on with regards to your early posting. I understand that people make mistakes (especially early) but do I buy this? Is it the right sort of mistake? Is it the sort of mistake town makes? It’s not carelessness, it’s a characterisation of your posts as forced/contrived. It’s difficult tbh. Hmm, honestly I didn't view this as a mistake. Maybe that's my error. But a lot of people expressed a similar sentiment regarding my early posting, unless I am missing something I don't think his claim itself was unreasonable at all. There is the part where he wasn't able to back it up with evidence upon request. It's a little strange, heck I bet I could go into my filter and fabricate the explanation in question, but I actually think it's maybe more likely to come from town. Possibilities: - Mocsta is town, and due to a few combined factors (plane flight/setting change, me posting more and him getting a more meaningful read on me which quite possibly colors his perception of previous posts), didn't read the earlier posts the same way - Mocsta is mafia, and instead of forcing an explanation, gave it up. Like, if it was me and I was mafia there, I'm 10000% giving a forced explanation there, even if I can't remember what I was initially thinking I'm gonna make something up. I would never back down there. Maybe Mocsta is just a different player from me but I don't actually see the mafia motivation for this? The claim is too vague and easy to provide fake reasoning for, honestly if he's mafia I think he took a much harder route by backing down from it. He’s admitting it as a mistake Trfel lol. Wtf? To the bolded: who exactly? Raynpelikoneet, rsoultin, sandroba, maybe even AlphaZero? And sure, Mocsta said it was a mistake, but I disagree I think it's more likely that his perspective changed, causing him to interpret the same posts in a different way. I mean if you want to call that a mistake then sure, I wouldn't say that though. No no no. They did not say the same things. Commenting on your early posting is different from what/how they are commenting about. I guess even if they said different things, I interpreted the things people said to be coming from the same place/caused by the same things. Specifically, I was playing at a band concert and thus was on my phone and it was the start of the game and I was joking around and messing with people instead of actually playing the game. Eventually, I got home to my computer and there was more to talk about, and so this changed. People pointed out different things about the initial playstyle, but unless you can explain why some of those claims are more or less valid than others, I am not sure what you are getting at. Even taking Mocsta out of the equation for a moment and talking generally I dont grasp how you don’t understand the devil is in the detail? It matters in what way it is off, because it’s a mindset thing. Sure? I think it depends on the situation though, no? Like it's possible that there are things in the details that are off and maybe it means something, and it's possible that there aren't? I'm sorry I'm not trying to be obnoxious, I just don't actually understand what you are getting at. Show nested quote +On June 07 2024 17:05 Mocsta wrote:
Have skim read. Trfel stood out to me as sentiment over a few posts felt forced / overly processed. Not sure if that's his meta though. Certainly not a scum claim. Also felt a little similar with rsoultin. It seems that your point is that this post doesn't have basis?
Yes but let’s leave it for now.
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On June 08 2024 21:09 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 21:08 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:59 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 20:57 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:47 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 20:39 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:36 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 20:34 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:18 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 08:38 Mocsta wrote:
[quote]aawwwwww
Mate. I probably shouldn't have posted my first post
Game started at 10 for me and earliest chance I had to read was 4 sitting on plane
In short hectic mad day and I was so excited to make intro post for first time.in maybe 6years.. I see the length of the game and was like wtf I dont have time.to do this before take.off and lose reception.
Quickly skim and rsoultin and trfel.poats were the ones where my mind just disconnected from. Could not engage
So put it out there to just have out it out there
I wouldn't say the post content was forced because it's how I felt at that moment, although the sentiment that I needed to post something , yes was forced
It's also part of why I retracted once I landed and read thoroughly
This is his explanation for the stuff I picked up on with regards to your early posting. I understand that people make mistakes (especially early) but do I buy this? Is it the right sort of mistake? Is it the sort of mistake town makes? It’s not carelessness, it’s a characterisation of your posts as forced/contrived. It’s difficult tbh. Hmm, honestly I didn't view this as a mistake. Maybe that's my error. But a lot of people expressed a similar sentiment regarding my early posting, unless I am missing something I don't think his claim itself was unreasonable at all. There is the part where he wasn't able to back it up with evidence upon request. It's a little strange, heck I bet I could go into my filter and fabricate the explanation in question, but I actually think it's maybe more likely to come from town. Possibilities: - Mocsta is town, and due to a few combined factors (plane flight/setting change, me posting more and him getting a more meaningful read on me which quite possibly colors his perception of previous posts), didn't read the earlier posts the same way - Mocsta is mafia, and instead of forcing an explanation, gave it up. Like, if it was me and I was mafia there, I'm 10000% giving a forced explanation there, even if I can't remember what I was initially thinking I'm gonna make something up. I would never back down there. Maybe Mocsta is just a different player from me but I don't actually see the mafia motivation for this? The claim is too vague and easy to provide fake reasoning for, honestly if he's mafia I think he took a much harder route by backing down from it. He’s admitting it as a mistake Trfel lol. Wtf? To the bolded: who exactly? Raynpelikoneet, rsoultin, sandroba, maybe even AlphaZero? And sure, Mocsta said it was a mistake, but I disagree I think it's more likely that his perspective changed, causing him to interpret the same posts in a different way. I mean if you want to call that a mistake then sure, I wouldn't say that though. No no no. They did not say the same things. Commenting on your early posting is different from what/how they are commenting about. I guess even if they said different things, I interpreted the things people said to be coming from the same place/caused by the same things. Specifically, I was playing at a band concert and thus was on my phone and it was the start of the game and I was joking around and messing with people instead of actually playing the game. Eventually, I got home to my computer and there was more to talk about, and so this changed. People pointed out different things about the initial playstyle, but unless you can explain why some of those claims are more or less valid than others, I am not sure what you are getting at. Even taking Mocsta out of the equation for a moment and talking generally I dont grasp how you don’t understand the devil is in the detail? It matters in what way it is off, because it’s a mindset thing. Sure? I think it depends on the situation though, no? Like it's possible that there are things in the details that are off and maybe it means something, and it's possible that there aren't? I'm sorry I'm not trying to be obnoxious, I just don't actually understand what you are getting at. On June 07 2024 17:05 Mocsta wrote:
Have skim read. Trfel stood out to me as sentiment over a few posts felt forced / overly processed. Not sure if that's his meta though. Certainly not a scum claim. Also felt a little similar with rsoultin. It seems that your point is that this post doesn't have basis? Yes but let’s leave it for now.
But you’re understanding what I’m saying which helps ^^
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On June 08 2024 21:13 Trfel wrote:
I don't want to lynch raynpelikoneet today anyway. He already said his activity is limited this cycle, it seems extremely stupid to come up with reasons to suspect him after he has to leave and then lynch him before he gets a chance to respond. Like, why would we do that?
If someone could please say something that makes sense, I'd really appreciate it, this past hour has driven me absolutely insane.
To be clear, this isn’t what I was suggesting
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On June 08 2024 21:15 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 21:14 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 21:13 Trfel wrote:
I don't want to lynch raynpelikoneet today anyway. He already said his activity is limited this cycle, it seems extremely stupid to come up with reasons to suspect him after he has to leave and then lynch him before he gets a chance to respond. Like, why would we do that?
If someone could please say something that makes sense, I'd really appreciate it, this past hour has driven me absolutely insane. To be clear, this isn’t what I was suggesting Was more talking to others than you, and also the two paragraphs weren't related, sorry if that came off more aggressively than I meant.
You don’t have to keep apologising btw :p
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On June 08 2024 21:25 Trfel wrote:
If someone asks me about something I'm most likely going to respond. You're going to have to deal with it.
What’s the most disgusting sex you’ve ever had?
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So I’ve reread kelsier. Didn’t take long tbh.
Like it’s obviously not great that he didn’t do much. But I’m struggling to get excited about Trfel’s AZ/rsoultin angle in much the same way Trfel didn’t come with me on Mocsta.
Tonally the dgaf is somewhat town.
Bit crapshooty. Need more please
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On June 08 2024 22:43 marvellosity wrote:
So I’ve reread kelsier. Didn’t take long tbh.
Like it’s obviously not great that he didn’t do much. But I’m struggling to get excited about Trfel’s AZ/rsoultin angle in much the same way Trfel didn’t come with me on Mocsta.
Tonally the dgaf is somewhat town.
Bit crapshooty. Need more please
Obviously mafia can say ‘you need to drop this shit’ but the tendency is there to defend yourself a bit more. The other option is kelsier is just bored of it and is saying so very bluntly
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On June 08 2024 22:43 marvellosity wrote:
So I’ve reread kelsier. Didn’t take long tbh.
Like it’s obviously not great that he didn’t do much. But I’m struggling to get excited about Trfel’s AZ/rsoultin angle in much the same way Trfel didn’t come with me on Mocsta.
Tonally the dgaf is somewhat town.
Bit crapshooty. Need more please
THe importance of this does diminish without further content
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On June 08 2024 22:54 Trfel wrote:
I guess I have a hard time matching Kelsi3r's attitude with his productiveness. If he got irritated or frustrated and left that's somewhat understandable, for some reason that's not the interpretation I have though? Maybe I am being biased here though.
As I’ll probably have time for one more proper thing today. Earlier you said this was the towniest game of Scott’s you’d seen.
Two things.
Can you explain that to me further?
Secondly, assuming it is true, is it possible this is the towniest game you’ve seen from him because he’s mafia? Do you see what I’m saying?
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On June 08 2024 23:00 Trfel wrote:
Like, he says "you need to drop this"....
If he's not going to play, why do I need to drop it, right?
"You're being obnoxious" and then afk is much more understandable.
Also accusing me of lying, right after pointing out things I did that he thought were towny, and right before leaving... Like if I am lying, then I am mafia, and he should want to get me lynched?
I just can't put together a mindset that makes it make sense. Any one thing, sure, but not the overall picture.
This is a fair point
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On June 08 2024 23:04 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 22:58 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 22:54 Trfel wrote:
I guess I have a hard time matching Kelsi3r's attitude with his productiveness. If he got irritated or frustrated and left that's somewhat understandable, for some reason that's not the interpretation I have though? Maybe I am being biased here though. As I’ll probably have time for one more proper thing today. Earlier you said this was the towniest game of Scott’s you’d seen. Two things. Can you explain that to me further? Secondly, assuming it is true, is it possible this is the towniest game you’ve seen from him because he’s mafia? Do you see what I’m saying? For #2, I thought about that, it's maybe possible but I have no idea how I'd verify this. I don't think it's dramatically different from scott31337's other games. More like, same but better, as opposed to a major contrast. #1 is subjective and depends on 8+ year old memory so it's very difficult to explain. But he made a list post, even if most of it was "this person is playing like they do as town so they are town" or "this person is playing like they do as mafia so they are mafia." And he actually looked at AlphaZero's filter and made a conclusion from it. That's pretty special, above the level I was expecting.
Playing devils advocate here.
Is it above the level you were expecting because he already knows the answer?
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On June 08 2024 23:02 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 23:00 Trfel wrote:
Like, he says "you need to drop this"....
If he's not going to play, why do I need to drop it, right?
"You're being obnoxious" and then afk is much more understandable.
Also accusing me of lying, right after pointing out things I did that he thought were towny, and right before leaving... Like if I am lying, then I am mafia, and he should want to get me lynched?
I just can't put together a mindset that makes it make sense. Any one thing, sure, but not the overall picture. This is a fair point
Still weighing this up. It’s the worst thing in his filter for sure.
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Unsurprisingly I am with Vivax’s interpretation of sand’s posts here
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On June 08 2024 23:59 Vivax wrote:
Tinfoil theory: It's rayn, Slam and marv because rayn and slam so far have had suspicions on marv when nobody else had and they want to annoy him with the soft busses.
This is nonsense though, multiple people jumped on me for my rsoul filter comment yesterday
And whoever pointed out Slam hasn’t said anything about me
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On June 09 2024 00:07 Oatsmaster wrote:
##unvote
I’ll let vivax play
Good boy
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