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On December 13 2023 22:19 marvellosity wrote:
So I've gone back and re-read sandro, specifically looking for what he has said about Trfel. This is the progression.
1. He is "98% sure" that the DP & Trfel fight is TvT.
2. Trfel is trying to figure out the game, and his post casting suspicion on Vivax is "spot on".
3. Trfel he had been "leaning town" on "but this post really set off some alarms for me" - this is the Trfel vote post on Vivax.
4. He says to me "I quoted a post [from Trfel] I would 100% expect you to agree on and find suspicious" - the problem is he couldn't elaborate on how this was - he stated the tone felt different from the rest of the filter - which I don't agree with - which is why I asked how he might imagine a town Trfel might have written the post, which he could not answer.
5. He then submissively backs down on this point saying he could be just bad (this feels out of sandro's character)
6. Now he is "conflicted on Trfel"
7. sandro does a big catch-up post on DP, Trfel, me etc. In it he says he agrees with DP that Trfel was "going on the counter offensive" to make his post look a lot worse, and if he knew what type of player Trfel was, he would find it "an ironclad case [on Trfel]"
Basically I don't find any of this natural. While it was happening, he considered DP vs Trfel 98% TvT, but on re-read DP's case on Trfel looks "ironclad"?
I can't see this whole thing coming from a town sandro, I just can't
This is stupid, why would I do this as mafia? Why not just keep my town read on Trfel at that point and just focus on Vivax?
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On December 13 2023 22:40 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2023 22:38 sandroba wrote:On December 13 2023 22:19 marvellosity wrote:
So I've gone back and re-read sandro, specifically looking for what he has said about Trfel. This is the progression.
1. He is "98% sure" that the DP & Trfel fight is TvT.
2. Trfel is trying to figure out the game, and his post casting suspicion on Vivax is "spot on".
3. Trfel he had been "leaning town" on "but this post really set off some alarms for me" - this is the Trfel vote post on Vivax.
4. He says to me "I quoted a post [from Trfel] I would 100% expect you to agree on and find suspicious" - the problem is he couldn't elaborate on how this was - he stated the tone felt different from the rest of the filter - which I don't agree with - which is why I asked how he might imagine a town Trfel might have written the post, which he could not answer.
5. He then submissively backs down on this point saying he could be just bad (this feels out of sandro's character)
6. Now he is "conflicted on Trfel"
7. sandro does a big catch-up post on DP, Trfel, me etc. In it he says he agrees with DP that Trfel was "going on the counter offensive" to make his post look a lot worse, and if he knew what type of player Trfel was, he would find it "an ironclad case [on Trfel]"
Basically I don't find any of this natural. While it was happening, he considered DP vs Trfel 98% TvT, but on re-read DP's case on Trfel looks "ironclad"?
I can't see this whole thing coming from a town sandro, I just can't This is stupid, why would I do this as mafia? Why not just keep my town read on Trfel at that point and just focus on Vivax? Because mafia make mistakes. I've talked a fair bit this game about how I can understand how people are thinking and progressing, that sort of thing. The fact is, I can't understand these thoughts or progression. It's not townie.
It's townie because I'm town, you either lack imagination or just mafia. It's not like through my posts you can see all my thought processes. I haven't played this game in years, you can't just think I'd have the same confidence in my reads as I did before. Also, I'd like to think I'm not as arrogant as I used to be. Changing my mind and not keeping my story straight was never mafia m.o., I'd pretty much just have a really hard time posting and do as little as possible.
I'd like to think I'm right on Trfel and was right on my initial intuition and got myself convinced he was just bad and overeager as he posted a bunch. I know I felt this way many times before, even when I was good at this game.
Whatever you are probably just mafia, I'm tired of force myself to imagine you could be town.
Your Palmar interactions/relationship is super similar to what you guys were doing in assassination mafia, not sure if only one of you is mafia or both
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On December 13 2023 22:45 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2023 22:38 sandroba wrote:On December 13 2023 22:19 marvellosity wrote:
So I've gone back and re-read sandro, specifically looking for what he has said about Trfel. This is the progression.
1. He is "98% sure" that the DP & Trfel fight is TvT.
2. Trfel is trying to figure out the game, and his post casting suspicion on Vivax is "spot on".
3. Trfel he had been "leaning town" on "but this post really set off some alarms for me" - this is the Trfel vote post on Vivax.
4. He says to me "I quoted a post [from Trfel] I would 100% expect you to agree on and find suspicious" - the problem is he couldn't elaborate on how this was - he stated the tone felt different from the rest of the filter - which I don't agree with - which is why I asked how he might imagine a town Trfel might have written the post, which he could not answer.
5. He then submissively backs down on this point saying he could be just bad (this feels out of sandro's character)
6. Now he is "conflicted on Trfel"
7. sandro does a big catch-up post on DP, Trfel, me etc. In it he says he agrees with DP that Trfel was "going on the counter offensive" to make his post look a lot worse, and if he knew what type of player Trfel was, he would find it "an ironclad case [on Trfel]"
Basically I don't find any of this natural. While it was happening, he considered DP vs Trfel 98% TvT, but on re-read DP's case on Trfel looks "ironclad"?
I can't see this whole thing coming from a town sandro, I just can't This is stupid, why would I do this as mafia? Why not just keep my town read on Trfel at that point and just focus on Vivax? To erode your reads and keep options open. Please answer my questions wherever they are. Why aren't you adding town reads to your list? Why aren't you seeing who had good reasons to vote vivax or not? Why aren't you second guessing that your koshi read erosion is just due to timezones vs throwing it completely out the window when you already have like 5+ other scum reads?
Screw my town reads, I don't know how good people are at being scum so I'd just go after who I think the most likely scum is now and worry about the rest later.
At this point in the game I know for a fact that no mafia was really forced to make any mistakes due to the lynch yesterday being pretty much set on Vivax for the whole day and the switch attempt was onto a townie. Thus we first need to produce an event that forces some bullshit out so I everyone can get a better grasp on who is town and who is mafia.
The most danming of all is Trfel with his fake post on me, fake interaction with you and fake justification for voting Vivax. That's 3 hits of key moments that I believe he felt unconfortable and came up with some BS post. That's my strongest Mafia read, all my other stuff I perceive as being less accurate.
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On December 13 2023 23:06 Holyflare wrote:
Not sure I understand why you're tripling down on calling marv mafia when he's going through your filter multiple times, trying to come up with arguments and engage with you and even then still giving the benefit of the doubt for other people to interject and correct him. Is that mafia M.O.?
HF is just trying to bury me throwing some shade in every single post I make mafia.
"Not sure why you do this", "not sure why you do that"
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Still waiting for you to explain the vigi claim in the night. I want your reasoning spelled out
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On December 12 2023 19:30 Holyflare wrote:
Actually think I may have caught him out on this with his follow up. The fact he defaulted to "I could be mafia and DP town" is probably an "oh shit" reaction to it even because that scenario doesn't fit with his point about rayn or what he was saying at all.
He says that rayn's point is good thinking because it shows that he's thinking about mafia partner interactions, but removing DP from being mafia in this equation (remember, rayn specifically only mentioned sandro and DP) doesn't make any sense.
I didn't default to that, you accused me of defending myself throw my comment of giving rayn townie points about his comment.
I said it was not a defense because in the scenario rayn described I could be mafia and dp town, should be obvious I wan't trying to defend myself when pointing that out.
You made the post yourself calling it a defense, no way you are confused and think I defaulted to that. But again you are just distorting it to bury me.
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On December 13 2023 23:21 Palmar wrote:
So apparently I'm allowed to do this...
Anyone who wants the mason channel with me?
I do
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On December 13 2023 23:22 Holyflare wrote:
Let me spell it out incredibly clearly. I think you're mafia, I think you have floundered trying to come up with town reads because there have been people that are posting good townie thoughts and you can't come up with concrete reasons to actually scum read them so you've just re-hashed the beginning of the game again and squirrelled away not trying to give any good perspective on current events or anything useful. You've boxed yourself out and aren't actually answering any questions because you don't want to give too many things away when you actually flip mafia.
Even now I'm asking you relevant questions because you're not doing things you should be if you are a townie and you're just throwing things back in my face in an attempt to throw a tantrum and derail progress because the fact is you can't coherently reply to the accusations or give proper answers because there is no good explanation for what you're doing.
You can very very easily give more insight into the end of day shenanigans and see the perspectives of people at the time and give us insight into who looks like mafia trying to afk or which of the people joining you and trying to save vivax were doing so in good faith or bad faith and then drawing conclusions from that but you instead just pick out things that aren't relevant like some trfel interaction with me (and again, you haven't acknowledged or given an insight into my reply to this accusation).
You're not doing things a townie would do in your situation. You're complaining, you're calling people that are clearly just trying to solve the game mafia and relying aren't actually trying to divert things in a meaningful way. Who are you trying to lynch right now? God knows. Just whining that marv is mafia and that I'm mafia and asking about some irrelevant vig claim.
##vote sandroba
I'm trying to solve the game, your alignment and marv's is in question for me.
I made it very clear I want to lynch Trfel.
I'm doing what I'm doing and not what you want me to do. You could very easily be doing a ton of other things as well, and so could all the other people in the thread.
Again you are not trying to figure out my alignment, you just want to bury me
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On December 13 2023 23:24 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2023 23:14 sandroba wrote:On December 13 2023 23:06 Holyflare wrote:
Not sure I understand why you're tripling down on calling marv mafia when he's going through your filter multiple times, trying to come up with arguments and engage with you and even then still giving the benefit of the doubt for other people to interject and correct him. Is that mafia M.O.? HF is just trying to bury me throwing some shade in every single post I make mafia. "Not sure why you do this", "not sure why you do that" It’s a serious point though sand. I have some natural (townie 😉) doubt about my lynch, which I’ve expressed openly. Are you really reading my posts last 24h and thinking they are mafia posts? I know I’m super biased here but I think it’s fairly obvious I am constructively trying to solve and think about the game. I have like zero reason, as mafia, to throw any doubt on your lynch, as the rest of the game I’ve just been all over you. I’m considering it again today because I want to get it right.
If you are town we are pretty much in catch-22 regarding reading each other.
But I don't care as long as we can agree on Trfel it will work itself out. I doubt that we are both alive down the line if you are town, so I probably won't even have to figure it out.
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First post, besides my initial call out that I think is fabricated:
On December 10 2023 13:25 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2023 12:49 sandroba wrote:
Hi everyone, excited to be playing a game after being away from Mafia for so long! I believe I have some familiarity with most if not all players on the list, although I might be very outdated in accessing their meta.
So far we have Alakaslam who I feel is posting within what I expected, not leaning one way or the other based on his initial posts. I like the poking about smiles being sus, but at the same time, it's phrased as a question so there is a bit of avoidance in there as well. Again, not very telling.
For Trfel, some might say I'm nit-picking, but I don't like the self-demeaning tone about his performance right out of the gate. Also, some generic advice and deadlines which sounds like trying to say something just to fit in. This could be understandable because we are mostly trying to generate some content at this point and get the discussion going, but this advice at this point so far away from the deadline doesn't do us much good at face value or as a conversation starter. Leaning suspicious from what I've seen so far. I guess instead of waiting I'll let the cat out of the bag, I'm impatient. This post seems very wishy-washy, non-committal, and pointless. The first paragraph doesn't really say anything of substance (not that it's wrong per se, just doesn't really contribute anything meaningful to the game). The second paragraph is the same way. To me, he seems to end with exactly no read (and next to no thoughts) on Alakaslam. There's even "I like the poking about smiles, but it's phrased as a question so there is avoidance as well" which seems like aggressive-but-with-a-heavy-grain-of-salt that is easy to say without actually committing to it. "Posting within what I expected" and "not leaning one way or the other based on initial posts" doesn't end up meaning much at all. The other thing I want to note is all of the caveats and grain of salts and backtracking in sandroba's post. Not exactly sure how to phrase what I mean, but see here, in red: Show nested quote +On December 10 2023 12:49 sandroba wrote:
So far we have Alakaslam who I feel is posting within what I expected, not leaning one way or the other based on his initial posts. I like the poking about smiles being sus, but at the same time, it's phrased as a question so there is a bit of avoidance in there as well. Again, not very telling.
For Trfel, some might say I'm nit-picking, but I don't like the self-demeaning tone about his performance right out of the gate. Also, some generic advice and deadlines which sounds like trying to say something just to fit in. This could be understandable because we are mostly trying to generate some content at this point and get the discussion going, but this advice at this point so far away from the deadline doesn't do us much good at face value or as a conversation starter. Leaning suspicious from what I've seen so far. He's shying away from saying something, like making a read and then backing off from it. Or giving a reason to doubt what he just said, or placing a limiter on it. For such a small post, it's riddled with it. To me, this comes across as trying to be non-committal and playing the "safe game" while making it look like you are saying things and trying to figure things out.
On December 10 2023 21:24 Trfel wrote:After DP pressure he admits on it being fake, but says he did it to try to figure out my alignment: Show nested quote +On December 10 2023 21:16 DarthPunk wrote:It just seems to me that you came roaring out of the gate with a huge case, based on some nitpicking really early in the thread, and you end up going nowhere on anything which is the essence of what the case you wrote on Sandro in the first place. Now fair enough, sandroba hasn't been around so you haven't been able to pursue things further. But your level of aggression just didn't really match with what was going on in the thread at the time, which you kind of acknowledge at the start of said post. On December 10 2023 13:25 Trfel wrote:On December 10 2023 12:49 sandroba wrote:
Hi everyone, excited to be playing a game after being away from Mafia for so long! I believe I have some familiarity with most if not all players on the list, although I might be very outdated in accessing their meta.
So far we have Alakaslam who I feel is posting within what I expected, not leaning one way or the other based on his initial posts. I like the poking about smiles being sus, but at the same time, it's phrased as a question so there is a bit of avoidance in there as well. Again, not very telling.
For Trfel, some might say I'm nit-picking, but I don't like the self-demeaning tone about his performance right out of the gate. Also, some generic advice and deadlines which sounds like trying to say something just to fit in. This could be understandable because we are mostly trying to generate some content at this point and get the discussion going, but this advice at this point so far away from the deadline doesn't do us much good at face value or as a conversation starter. Leaning suspicious from what I've seen so far. I guess instead of waiting I'll let the cat out of the bag, I'm impatient. It's almost like an apology, like what were you waiting for? And now you are kind of backtracking, which also doesn't match with the way you lead out originally. it's all quite jarring to me. I assume you are talking to me, I am having a bit of trouble understanding what you are actually getting at here though. Yes, I think sandroba is suspicious. No, I wouldn't wager high stakes on it. He's one of the people I'm most interested in (along with Alakaslam and perhaps yourself and an off-chance of Vivax), but I'm not certain yet. I posted the way I did to try and figure out sandroba's alignment (and eventually everyone else's). Just because I'm not very confident yet doesn't mean that I can't figure things out and investigate and that sort of thing. I didn't bring any aggression, that's just me trying to ask questions and figure things out. If there is anything you'd like me to clear up please don't hesitate to ask, I'm just having a bit of trouble understanding this post though, it feels a bit nebulous to me.
Second post:
On December 11 2023 04:49 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2023 04:42 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am gonna take a little break. My feet have been cold for like 3 days because of shitty socks, and i just want to go to sauna now that i can. Will be back in an hour.
If anyone would like to have an opinion on Holyflare, and especially on what i said on him, i would appreciate. To be honest I think you are nitpicking a bit. Even if we say you are right and Holyflare isn't, I'm not sure what that demonstrates. It means he messed up in reading the thread maybe, I don't think it makes him mafia. I think that the overall picture of Holyflare's play is much more important. Holyflare, thoughts on DarthPunk? I get that it's night in Australia but he still feels a bit off to me.
Compare to his comment on Vivax doing the same thing:
On December 11 2023 03:04 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2023 22:47 marvellosity wrote:On December 10 2023 21:24 Trfel wrote:On December 10 2023 21:16 DarthPunk wrote:It just seems to me that you came roaring out of the gate with a huge case, based on some nitpicking really early in the thread, and you end up going nowhere on anything which is the essence of what the case you wrote on Sandro in the first place. Now fair enough, sandroba hasn't been around so you haven't been able to pursue things further. But your level of aggression just didn't really match with what was going on in the thread at the time, which you kind of acknowledge at the start of said post. On December 10 2023 13:25 Trfel wrote:On December 10 2023 12:49 sandroba wrote:
Hi everyone, excited to be playing a game after being away from Mafia for so long! I believe I have some familiarity with most if not all players on the list, although I might be very outdated in accessing their meta.
So far we have Alakaslam who I feel is posting within what I expected, not leaning one way or the other based on his initial posts. I like the poking about smiles being sus, but at the same time, it's phrased as a question so there is a bit of avoidance in there as well. Again, not very telling.
For Trfel, some might say I'm nit-picking, but I don't like the self-demeaning tone about his performance right out of the gate. Also, some generic advice and deadlines which sounds like trying to say something just to fit in. This could be understandable because we are mostly trying to generate some content at this point and get the discussion going, but this advice at this point so far away from the deadline doesn't do us much good at face value or as a conversation starter. Leaning suspicious from what I've seen so far. I guess instead of waiting I'll let the cat out of the bag, I'm impatient. It's almost like an apology, like what were you waiting for? And now you are kind of backtracking, which also doesn't match with the way you lead out originally. it's all quite jarring to me. I assume you are talking to me, I am having a bit of trouble understanding what you are actually getting at here though. Yes, I think sandroba is suspicious. No, I wouldn't wager high stakes on it. He's one of the people I'm most interested in (along with Alakaslam and perhaps yourself and an off-chance of Vivax, but I'm not certain yet. I posted the way I did to try and figure out sandroba's alignment (and eventually everyone else's). Just because I'm not very confident yet doesn't mean that I can't figure things out and investigate and that sort of thing. I didn't bring any aggression, that's just me trying to ask questions and figure things out. If there is anything you'd like me to clear up please don't hesitate to ask, I'm just having a bit of trouble understanding this post though, it feels a bit nebulous to me. Wanna tell me about this, Trfel? Part of it is Vivax's first post ( here), which we discussed briefly. I didn't like how weak his questioning to sandroba feels, Vivax recognized the issues with sandroba's post but didn't seem to want to challenge sandroba over it or actually do anything with this knowledge. The other thing was that Vivax's posts didn't seem to have any order, he pulled quotes from seemingly random points in the thread. I can't follow the thought process that leads him to bring up the things he did, and especially not in that order. This isn't necessarily mafia indicative, it just feels weird and I'm not sure what to make of it yet. Show nested quote +On December 11 2023 02:48 Chezinu wrote:On December 10 2023 19:47 Trfel wrote:On December 10 2023 15:12 Chezinu wrote:On December 10 2023 11:36 Alakaslam wrote:On December 10 2023 10:55 Chezinu wrote:On December 10 2023 09:57 iamperfection wrote:On December 10 2023 06:11 Chezinu wrote:
Let me know if yall want me to role-play a character. your not role playing a character when you normally play ? A specific character Chezinu Izunizehc! Hey Guys! I'm Chezinu! Hi Chezinu, I'm Trfel! Hope you have been well these past few years. Hello Mr. Truffles!! I haven't eaten a truffle in a few years. However, I have embarked on a journey to the Citdal to understand the underworlings of the sentinels. I'm in deep. Deep within beyond the convulsional layers form by the kernels. I will try and send you photos of my findings. I eagerly await your report.
This post is extremelly wish-washy, contrary to all things he deems pro-town:
On December 11 2023 06:35 Trfel wrote:
I think at this point I'd be okay with lynching Koshi (if he is going to play like this), and potentially okay with lynching DarthPunk. Sandroba's recent set of posts were more interesting to me, I didn't necessarily agree with everything he was saying but it helps me to put together his mindset/approach. Holyflare's point that he's focusing on defending himself from presumed incorrect accusations instead of actually finding mafia or being productive is strong, now that he's actually shared suspicions I look forward to him coming back tomorrow. Vivax I could definitely see being mafia but I don't think I want to lynch him as much as Koshi or DarthPunk at this point.
And finally the Vivax vote justification:
On December 11 2023 16:57 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2023 13:41 DarthPunk wrote:
Trfel are you around?
Can you give me your updated reads now you are voting vivax I'm asleep. I think Vivax is the best chance at mafia. His play is very underwhelming and uninspired, in contrast to his town play where he is capable of being a very strong player. He also seems to not care about his relatively poor performance/lack of investmemt. Sandroba and Koshi might be worth considering but I think I like lynching Vivax more by a decent margin.
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Something interesting (imo) that we discussed in the chat was that given the DP kill, if palmar and marv are town they are as bad as I am (maybe worse?)
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Is mafia just gaslighting me into thinking I'm bad when actually I was instinctively right on Trfel on the very first post he made?
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Oh shit I fucked up the quote:
The second post I quoted I embeded my commentary:
"After DP pressure he admits on it being fake, but says he did it to try to figure out my alignment:"
Inside the post. Just note that it's supposed to be outside
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On December 14 2023 01:12 Koshi wrote:
Like.... DMB is mafia... Best lynch imo.
Somewhat likely, but according to your own logic we should kill either me or trfel or both first?
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Can you comment on the posts I quoted from Trfel?
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Going through and reading dmb filter, lost of complaining, apologizing for being inactive in the beginning. Don't have any prior experience with them as a player, but would tend to see this as biased towards mafia behavior. Never really comments on the interaction that happened between me and trfel that dominated the initial part of the game. The one mention of Trfel kinda assumes he is mafia and tries to softly throw some shade on Koshi for defending him:
On December 11 2023 10:10 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2023 10:04 DarthPunk wrote:On December 11 2023 10:02 die_meatbaby wrote:
*(I don´t want do hurt fellings with what I ever think or right about somebody here) We are all grown ups, and I was toxic as fuck back in the day. I think I can comfortably say for all of us, that we would rather have you post freely than worry about upsetting anyone. especially when you only have 3 posts or something  sorry getting active now. The thing is i don´t like how Koshi is just like 100% sure that Trfel is Town and just almost every post from him is like trying to save him. But also if Koshi is mafia he wouldn´t be that activ.
On December 11 2023 11:26 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2023 10:35 Palmar wrote:On December 11 2023 10:33 DarthPunk wrote:On December 11 2023 10:30 Palmar wrote:
Jesus it’s so bad. Pointless commentary, terrible questions. Lots of nothing and very boring to boot. I didn’t laugh once.
We found our first mafia boys. Get in while it’s still cool You are not wrong, but I think it's not outside of the scope of his town play. I’m never wrong. Let’s do the vote thing. Just to make this clear my decision to vote for Vivax is based on my own analysis and not because your ego convinced me to vote who ever you think is scum. And yes your filter looks good but you still not town for me and I will read and analysis every post you will make until you lose a bit of this self believing god player stuff here.
This post sounds a bit fake to me, especially the part where it says "yes your filter looks good but..."
Don't like this post here either:
On December 12 2023 10:57 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2023 10:49 DarthPunk wrote:
Chez tell me why I should not try and lynch you right now. okey i love a chez lynch before he starts to meme up the thread and confuse me or creep me out with his strange post, but why is he scumy for you he was not posting much here. How can we read him? I can not soul read him as i do often in here espescially with players I already played. Feeling like gambling to vote on him and even if he flips red I can not see who would be with him. I am still sure he is not human. He is AI player which Grack is puting in the game for his on satisfaction to see us or def. me struggling to not. But I am open for an Chez lynch just not looking so scumy as V
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Fuck Koshi, I think you are right, but it would be even more solid if Trfel is scum too.
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On December 14 2023 01:31 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2023 01:16 sandroba wrote:
Can you comment on the posts I quoted from Trfel? I dont understand the case in it.
The case is that collection of posts look forced and fabricated, they look like mafia trying to do what was expected of them to do as town.
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Palmar's point as I understood about dmb is taking at face value he is pissed off about Palmar being overconfident and that somehow makes him townie?
My point is that throwing "your filter looks good" in there doesn't sound natural to me given the rest of the sentiment of the post.
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I'm not rulling off palmar as mafia, but I don't think it's worth considering for now
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EPT
