[M][N]MiniFeast 1.5

On July 07 2019 18:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:

On July 06 2019 16:31 Trfel wrote:
Trfel's Notes, Volume 2
Eversince Edition

Disclaimer, I'm largely going to ignore all of the arguing. Partially because it's tedious, mostly because I don't think it means much. I've already looked through at a high level for generic feel and overall flow, and to be honest I liked what I found, but I wanted to take a closer look at the substance behind the reads themselves. Organized by player.

on Trfel:
+ Show Spoiler [Analysis] +

On July 02 2019 03:29 Eversince wrote:
Ok! I like Truffles to.

Pretty early on into the game. Post 61. What had I posted by then? Really just these two posts:

On July 02 2019 03:11 Trfel wrote:

Show nested quote +

On July 02 2019 03:07 Trfel wrote:

On July 02 2019 02:38 Pandain wrote:
I'm mafia

AMA

Weren't you one of the people who got mad at me and scumread me for doing the same thing a few games ago?

Never mind I'm confusing you with someone else. Carry on

I think Eversince is town, discuss?

and

On July 02 2019 03:22 Trfel wrote:

Show nested quote +

On July 02 2019 03:16 Eversince wrote:

On July 02 2019 03:11 Trfel wrote:

On July 02 2019 03:07 Trfel wrote:

On July 02 2019 02:38 Pandain wrote:
I'm mafia

AMA

Weren't you one of the people who got mad at me and scumread me for doing the same thing a few games ago?

Never mind I'm confusing you with someone else. Carry on

I think Eversince is town, discuss?

Why do you think I'm town?

Your posts feel so carefree and relaxed and comfortable, which is the complete opposite of your last game as mafia, which felt very rigid and forced. Plus, instead of relying on losing the wifi hotspot and the pre-game excuse, you seem to have redoubled your efforts to engage in the game and be involved. To me that makes a decent townread

As biased as I am (I do love being townread), honestly seems like a pretty easy and substance-less read. But let's see how it gets followed up.

On July 02 2019 11:31 Eversince wrote:
Yeah ok.

Pandain giving Truffles a townread and saying I didn't do anything is just trash! But at least he asnwer me.
Conversion is fine for doubting it. He's not dirving an agenda but just doesn't believe, that's ok I think.
Truffles is so town it hurts! Why are you guys skeptical on him?

I'll be here! who wants to talk?

This is post 104, what else had I posted by now? You can look at my filter for yourself, but the answer is a lot of posts explaining my townread of Eversince. Kinda understandable that she would pay more attention to reads on herself, but this still seems suspicious, giving such a strong townread when I've only provided one read. Feels like a bit of TMI. I remember she explained her townread on me later, let's see how that matches what's happened though. Also, I think her reads on other people might be a good indicator of if these easy townreads are characteristic of Eversince's play, or if this just happened because I was townreading her (I know I'm more likely to townread people who townread me, as much as I try to fight it).

On July 02 2019 11:38 Eversince wrote:
He's very open on how he comes to conclusions. Look at his filter all game. He's just an open book to me..
What issue am I missing?

Hm, I've only made one conclusion.

On July 02 2019 11:46 Eversince wrote:

Show nested quote +

On July 02 2019 11:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:
The issue is that if you're town and he knows your alignment and decided to make that read why wouldn't he have those conclusions? They are pretty much "facts" based on earlier games but imo they dont actually mean anything and as i said i am not completely certain if Trfel would think so either.

Just because someone has conclusions and explains how they came to those conclusions doesn't mean they are town.

Ok. But how he got them made sense to me. My mafia/town play is very different. I have a very hard time to play as mafia. Coming to the conclusion I am town because I'm in thread, engaging with people, and trying to get things moving at the start of day is ok I think. He's not pushing anything because of his read on me so where is he trying to take it if he's m!Truffles right now?

This makes a little more sense. I know Eversince values getting people to talk and getting the thread moving, especially early on, and that is something that I try to do as well. Still suspect but slightly grounded in reality.

on Pandain:
+ Show Spoiler [Analysis] +

On July 02 2019 03:46 Eversince wrote:

Show nested quote +

On July 02 2019 03:42 Pandain wrote:

On July 02 2019 03:38 Trfel wrote:

On July 02 2019 03:35 Pandain wrote:
I have no thoughts on Eversince but I am giving Trfel an extremely strong townread. I think it's unlikely for mafia to give a strong townread so early in the game (literally the first page)

Can I ask why you don't agree with my read on Eversince?

I just think it's extremely early to give a townread based on meta/carefree posting.

Anyone can fake meta for a page.

(before anyone notes a contradiction, please note I'm not reading Trfel for meta but rather for something specific he did)

You giving him t!Truffle but null reading me when his only post is t!ES is what I'm having a hard time with in that scenario. Why is it ok to put him as strong townread, have me as no idea?

Fair, even if I don't necessarily agree with this being super suspicious I understand why it could seem that way to someone. The real question is, is the followup there?

On July 02 2019 04:20 Eversince wrote:

Show nested quote +

On July 02 2019 03:46 Eversince wrote:

On July 02 2019 03:42 Pandain wrote:

On July 02 2019 03:38 Trfel wrote:

Can I ask why you don't agree with my read on Eversince?

You giving him t!Truffle but null reading me when his only post is t!ES is what I'm having a hard time with in that scenario. Why is it ok to put him as strong townread, have me as no idea?

I still want this answered!

On July 02 2019 13:16 Eversince wrote:
I don't like Pandain's weird Truffle town read. It would be fine but putting Truffles town and me null at that early was just weird. I get why he says I'd be 'forced' to be active but at least I'm trying. I'm very obvious to just ask if you want me to explain anything. So giving Truffles a town read and nulling me when I am around is just.. off.

The same read as previously shared, really.

On July 02 2019 13:20 Eversince wrote:
To clarify Pandain problem: If you give Truffles town read there and someone your not sure about is known to be active, why not just try to get a better read on them? The fact he didn't bother to interact is bigger issue to me I think.

I don't want to spend all of day 1 tunneled on Pandain though. What are your thoughts?

That makes a lot more sense.

On July 02 2019 15:22 Eversince wrote:

Show nested quote +

On July 02 2019 14:57 Pandain wrote:
I'm voting ES. Her posts seem kind of fake and I don't know how she can seriously believe she "deserves" a town read this early in the take when absolutely nothing has happened.

You can vote me I don't care! I 'seriously' believe that you gave Truffles a town read for doing the exact same thing I was trying to do. But I'm null. (I don't care if you want to read me mafia, but don't use reasons you yourself used to town somebody)! I don't mean I deserve anything. I'm just pushing at walls trying to get thread moving,engage with people and bounce ideas. The fact you think that's questionable is serious concerning.

Let's talk though Pand I don't want to waste half this game tunneled on you if you are town.

And after a bit of discussion:

On July 02 2019 15:51 Eversince wrote:
No Pand, that actually makes lots of sense and makes me feel better about you!

While your here have thoughts on everyone else? How about my Conv point?

This is good follow-up! Continued to talk about the Pandain suspicion, then brought it up to Pandain, they talk about it, and are able to reach (to some extent anyway) a resolution! Feels like trying to figure out alignments to me.

On July 02 2019 16:46 Eversince wrote:
Bleh Pand seems to me the same as last game. I don't understand his logic and I'm 'ok' with his reasons for Truffles/ES read now, it took me a long time to get there. I'm not vesting into Pand real hard because last game I spent the entire time thinking he was mafia, he turned up town. I think there could be mafia motivation behind the vote on me. I'll have to think on that. I'm real ditsy, easy to misunderstand, and don't pick up on people real fast. But it's not like he tried to start a wagon so where is mafia Pandain trying to take the easy shot here?

Continuing to follow up, moving towards a tentative town read on Pandain it seems due to lack of mafia motivation and similarities to Pandain's previous (town) game. Makes sense, even if I don't entirely agree with the mafia motivation point.

On July 02 2019 17:03 Eversince wrote:

Show nested quote +

On July 02 2019 16:55 Jockmcplop wrote:

On July 02 2019 16:46 Eversince wrote: But it's not like he tried to start a wagon so where is mafia Pandain trying to take the easy shot here?

Here's exactly what I'm thinking with this.
Pandain had a read of trfel which he immediately went back on. This suggests that he isn't very confident in his early reads and specifically doesn't really expect to make a read early and stick to it.

That's NAI on its own, although its a little odd so early in the game.

When added to that, the fact that he has a kinda weak, tangential scum read on you and immediately uses it as reason to vote, while leaving the thread so his vote does literally nothing, is really weird. Its like he wanted to have a scum read and make sure we all knew what it was, but is not really trying to progress the game.

If he's not trying to start a wagon, and he didn't stay here and question you or even vaguely try and poke for answers, what was the purpose behind voting for you?

That's are actually good points. It's a toss away vote which can gain traction later (If he actually thinks I'm scum here for it why not talk to me?), which is either terrible town or mafia agenda. -sigh- I might have to tunnel Pand again this whole game. Hopefully he's actually mafia.

And Jockmcplop makes a solid point, about the mafia motivation for Pandain's play versus the town motivation. Eversince takes note and is suspicious of Pandain again. Once again this makes sense, but is the follow-up there?

On July 03 2019 01:35 Eversince wrote:

Show nested quote +

On July 03 2019 01:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Aside from Conversion who do you think is mafia?

Sadly it's probably in the lurker pile.
Ewya isn't even playing. FF ask for a replace though so maby that's the problem. Wouldn't lynch.
HF hasn't been useful but it will correct itself soon.
Pand seems fishy to me but I always waffle on him.

And a few posts about actively trying to avoid talking about Pandain due to being tunneled on town Pandain the previous game. Makes sense, understandable.

On July 03 2019 06:19 Eversince wrote:

Show nested quote +

On July 03 2019 06:14 Pandain wrote:

On July 03 2019 06:02 Eversince wrote:

On July 03 2019 05:59 Grackaroni wrote:

On July 03 2019 05:58 Eversince wrote:
My god I need to sleep already. worse*

lol what time is it in the Philippines?

5 am?

I'm back in the States right now. But I work overnights for a Chem company and I'm always on call for problems with another plant I work at in Philippines. I'm just dead because I want to be around for people to talk to. Just did a 21 hour day yesterday. Then didn't sleep last night. My mind is fuzzy,

If this is true you should probably go to sleep now. If you're exhausted and making mistakes you're just going to bring more suspicion on yourself.

I've only briefly followed this thread throughout the day (15 hour shift) but I just noticed you just said you don't understand my reasoning when the last thing you had said to me when I was active was "oh I understand you now"

So either you're lying or you can't remember anything. Either one is possible based on what you're saying about your exhaustion

Yes Pandain. I spent the whole last game we played waffling on you reasoning. I don't want that to be an issue for this one! I understood one point you made to say I'm lying is kind of trash. I got what you where trying to say, other people posted some stuff, I start to waffle Pandain again. That's why you not in my lynch pool today I much rather go Conv/Ewya for what I posted already.

Fairly accurate summary.

on Conversion:
+ Show Spoiler [Analysis] +

On July 02 2019 13:16 Eversince wrote:
Conversion entrance seemed bleh. But I see what he was saying now. Using 4 year meta read is kind of bad. But sadly, I don't play as much anymore. Conv pointing it out, giving a decent reason for it, not commenting on the rest of game.. That seems questionable to me. There wasn't much content (still not) but I'll decide on that when I see how he actually plays!

Non-commital, bleh. But again, what is the follow-up to this?

On July 02 2019 13:25 Eversince wrote:
Actually thinking on that Conversion is really kind of bleh. Maby it's time issue. Coming in, throwing an easy valid point, and fucking right back off is scary to me.

Makes sense. That's a valid point, and something worth being suspicious of.

On July 02 2019 13:44 Eversince wrote:
The problem with Conversion is that he came in, rehashed a valid point, ignored the rest of the thread and left.

On July 02 2019 16:28 Eversince wrote:
I need to figure who to vote for. I'd be fine with Conv for reasons I already said. Grack would be ok but rather not, if he's town he'll start playing. Or we just lynch into lurkers. Which is also trash.

Is this really a lynch-worthy reason though? Worth being suspicious of but I don't feel it's lynch worthy at all. Hm...

On July 02 2019 18:37 Eversince wrote:
Ok. I read through his filter from that game real fast. Posting style seems very different from here.

I'm ok with lynching you (e/n: Conversion) for coming into thread, saying 1 perfect valid thing, ignoring the rest of the thread, fucking right off. Don't misunderstand me

!
I give Grack a pass because I've on/off played with him 4 years now and expect this type of thing.=I'm not going to immediately scum read you.

And a few other posts saying similar things. But it seems like Eversince is noticing this suspicious pattern (saying one valid thing and leaving) in Conversions's play and is suspicious of his play as a whole because of this pattern, which makes some sense (see here).

on Grackaroni:
+ Show Spoiler [Analysis] +

On July 02 2019 13:26 Eversince wrote:
I think Grack is just being usual Grack again.

On July 02 2019 13:44 Eversince wrote:
I think your point about both are fine. Rayn generally will push hard, but not get irate with you, if he thinks your doing something. If he isn't sure he's not going to try to put you on a stick and burn you. The problem with Conversion is that he came in, rehashed a valid point, ignored the rest of the thread and left.

Grack's just a special one. He's got a funny personal attitude. I'm not wanting to lynch him today. He'll pick up and engage like he did last game or then we can lynch. But he's not trying to move us anywhere. Which is trash town play. But m!Grack wants to lead town to do stupid things.

Hint of TMI, but it's not really a townread, it's just a refusal to lynch Day 1. Really it feels more like Eversince is trying to keep her options open. But overall it's an understandable viewpoint IMO.

On July 02 2019 18:37 Eversince wrote:
Ok. I read through his filter from that game real fast. Posting style seems very different from here.

I'm ok with lynching you for coming into thread, saying 1 perfect valid thing, ignoring the rest of the thread, fucking right off. Don't misunderstand me

!
I give Grack a pass because I've on/off played with him 4 years now and expect this type of thing.=I'm not going to immediately scum read you.

On July 03 2019 17:44 Eversince wrote:

Show nested quote +

On July 03 2019 17:41 Jockmcplop wrote:

On July 03 2019 17:35 Eversince wrote:
I got called off to work. but I'm back now if people want to talk!

It would be in your interest to take a look at grack, given that he's now the alternate wagon to you!

I've already said what I feel about Grack. His poor contribution after I defend him so hard is bleh though. I'd be ok with lynching him to be honest.

Decent followup, makes sense and is true to what Eversince said earlier. However, she keeps her vote on Eywa-, who she is heavily scumreading at this time. Makes a lot of sense.

On July 04 2019 20:53 Eversince wrote:
Yeah, Pand is strait useless.. Grack I expected to be but the fact he is still is is super meh.
Ewya is still scummy for stuff I said before. but w/e let's look at the game.
Rayn not having a read on me yet is starting to worry me. t!Rayn could be waffled here but m!Rayn would just want free point when t!ES lynched Conv the parity cop.

Followup makes sense, could still be mafia setting up tentatively for an easy mislynch though.

on Holyflare:
+ Show Spoiler [Analysis] +

On July 03 2019 02:50 Eversince wrote:
But you are clearly now showing I wasn't wrong to do it anyway because your being super town. So Wrong reason, same result!

Post 357. What had Holyflare done to warrant this? A point on Pandain, a point on Trfel, a point on Eversince, then a push onto Eversince for the Holyflare mafia meta thing. Seems a bit weak to suddenly jump from a null/afk read to a townread, almost feels like she is trying to appease Holyflare by praising his play and townreading him. Hm...

On July 04 2019 04:01 Eversince wrote:
@HF
I can't explain this any better.

I DID answer you. Your COMPLETELY IGNORING it. I don't make huge cases anymore. I've JUST gave you two other people I have made issues with. You push me for doing what I just did.

Are you just scum HF?

On July 04 2019 13:30 Eversince wrote:

Show nested quote +

On July 04 2019 07:52 Holyflare wrote:

On July 04 2019 03:28 Eversince wrote:

On July 04 2019 03:24 Holyflare wrote:

On July 04 2019 03:22 raynpelikoneet wrote:

On July 03 2019 23:32 Holyflare wrote:

On July 03 2019 23:19 Trfel wrote:

On July 03 2019 01:09 Eversince wrote:
And I've played with HF a few times over the years. He's stupid good mafia player. If he's town he'll figure things out! Go look at his massive list of games to look. Like he can be wrong but mafia almost always shoot into the vets on this site (HF/Rayn/Marv etc..etc.)

@Raynpelikoneet, is the bolded the thing you are using to scumread Eversince?

Because to me, Eversince is saying here that Holyflare is good at mafia as a game, not as an alignment.

She also clarified that she meant I'm good at mafia rather than the mafia alignment.

I know she did but do you believe that's the truth? I don't.

Yeah because why would she say I'm good as mafia and simultaneously say I'm afk as mafia? She wouldn't.

My points were about something completely different though and I don't think they're as awful as pandain and jock make them out to be.

Summarize for me. because I thought your points against me where crap.

This literally happened.

[red]I called your meta read on me crap and voted on you.[/red

You backtracked and said, yeah, you got it wrong.

You said I was correct to not like you because of it.

I said many other points after this.

You enter the thread and say "summarise for me because I thought your points against me were crap".

You then just say my points are the meta read against you and that's it but you already said those were fine. So, not only did you not know why I was actually scum reading you at that point but on top of that you've changed your point of view on the meta read points too!

Now you're coming back into the thread saying you don't know if I'm scum or not because the points against you are, yet again, crap but you never ever address them AGAIN. You tell me to just read your filter because it's all there but guess what, that's exactly what you're going to have to do to my filter now because it's all in there for you to read and comment on.

Solve the game, prove me wrong and that you're town. Don't just needlessly pander to people. I am not lynching eywa and don't think I ever will and don't really think they're mafia so you're barking up the wrong tree here. Who else is mafia?

Rayn please..

Then I try to talk with HF to see if m!HF is just pushing off on easy ES lynch. I like his responses though so I don't think he's mafia for it.

Fair enough.

On July 04 2019 14:09 Eversince wrote:
I was curious because m!HF can push t!ES there super easy. He was early but didn't vote me until later. I thought it was opportunistic! I had a meta read on HF (That I'm lynch with fire yesterday), wasn't ENITRELY wrong to have though becauses here HF playing townie! I get why he would not like my meta read when I can't prove it. I wanted to make sure m!HF isn't pushing easy town lynch. So I talked to him. He still wants to lynch me and I feel like his reason is crap but I think it's more likely t!HF here is trying to reach for straws than m!HF kill the easiest town! I get how he got there and I felt for a second there he wash pushing on me for easy reasons..That's why I said I don't think it's coming from m!HF but you can't say his read there isn't weak in reasons.

Not sure exactly why, but there was definitely some discussion here, it makes some sense.

on raynpellikoneet:
+ Show Spoiler [Analysis] +

On July 03 2019 03:09 Eversince wrote:

Show nested quote +

On July 03 2019 03:03 Jockmcplop wrote:
I don't think you're mafia ES, not yet anyway. All this stuff coming from rayn, hf and conversion seems kinda weak to be honest, even though there's alot of it.

Meh I think HF isn't scum for his points. Rayn just seems to be tumbling his brain.. Which is towny to me in the sense he's trying to figure things out. Conv I have issues with that I posted before. And Ewya is bothering me too. I need to think on her more yet.

on Eywa-:
+ Show Spoiler [Analysis] +

On July 03 2019 04:28 Eversince wrote:
Okok, I can stay and work home tonight (hopefully).. The biggest problem here Ewya is you just want to kill me. I'm easy vote at this point. It's a toss out vote to look townie so why? You can't be bothered to explain much else. That looks weird to me.

That makes life hard though if you are scum over lost town. I'll have to filter again..

Fair. This is post 384, before Eywa- posted their reasons for scumreading Eversince. This read makes plenty of sense.
When Eywa- does post their reasons for scumreading Eversince, Eversince addresses those reasons, doesn't like them, and votes for Eywa-. I don't feel like diving into it, you can start here if you would like to do so. I don't feel like this is terribly alignment indicative for Eversince either way.

On July 03 2019 13:53 Eversince wrote:
Ewya every post you make makes me think your more mafia. Your play here makes absolute no sense.

Conclusion: Some posts seem to be suspicious, some posts really feel like Eversince is trying to figure out players' alignments. Pretty mixed bag. This makes me lean towards Eversince being town due to tone, meta, and not knowing Holyflare died or how many lynches were still needed. Probably the most interesting thing I found was that Eversince had posted a lot more reads on players than I had expected, many of them with original thought (whether you agree or disagree). And most of the read transitions make sense.

@Eversince:

1. Why did you townread me (Trfel) early on? It feels like you townread me really, really easily, all I had to do was say I thought you were town. And you have never really backed down from this read all game. It feels a bit like TMI, or like you're trying to buddy me?
2. What exactly about Conversion made him lynch-worthy to you? I get that being absent for long periods and posting thoughts sporadically and not really interacting with the thread is suspicious, but is that alone really worthy of a lynch? Was it a pattern of behavior or just the first time that you noticed? If a pattern of behavior, how did that change as Conversion posted more?

this is the post Trfel made on ES, yet the conclusion is "tone and meta" (other stuff doesn't even make sense since he has earlier said ES is capable of strong scum play so why can't she just outright lie about not knowing who died?). Actually i don't know how how any of this makes sense since if ES has strong scumplay why is she town by tone and meta either??!?!?

I think you can say someone can have strong scumplay and still think you can read them on tone. It's not the biggest contradiction.

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