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[N] Uninspired Mafia - Page 25

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Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
May 02 2019 09:47 GMT
#481
Why is anything on me if we lose? Lol what a shit point. Everyone is an independent responsible for their own actions.

My reads being awful is not going to convince anyone of anything to do with my alignment. If you would actually spend the time attacking your mafia reads as much as you did defending your town reads with narratives and figures maybe you'd figure that out.
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
May 02 2019 09:50 GMT
#482
To everyone else thinking bugs is town just look at where he spends his time when in thread:

Pointless already answered questions.

Calling cases bad but then not addressing the case and instead writing walls of text on defending a town read Pandain instead.

Even with Jock it was asking about reading the guide and then complaining about the Jock meta being wrong after the fact.
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
May 02 2019 09:53 GMT
#483
Koshi/bugs/rels/vivax/pandain

Based on bugs defence of pandain tempted to take pandain out but we'll see.

Koshi hit or miss kinda like what he posted but I trained him as mafia well and he's a complete non entity.
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
May 02 2019 09:58 GMT
#484
And all those shitty afkers and ff I guess but pointless trying to include those shitters yet.

Interestingly ff left pandain out of his read list.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
May 02 2019 10:00 GMT
#485
On May 02 2019 18:47 Holyflare wrote:
Why is anything on me if we lose? Lol what a shit point. Everyone is an independent responsible for their own actions.

My reads being awful is not going to convince anyone of anything to do with my alignment. If you would actually spend the time attacking your mafia reads as much as you did defending your town reads with narratives and figures maybe you'd figure that out.


because you are likely to die, and if your reads are shit a lot of people will inevitably sheep you. Reputation matters on this forum.

Anyway, you want a point-by-point rebuttal to your case? Here you go:

On May 02 2019 07:14 Holyflare wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 02 2019 03:16 Pandain wrote:
On May 02 2019 02:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On May 02 2019 00:44 Pandain wrote:
FIXED POST

I am confused about why Jock suddenly became an asshole in this thread when the last two games he was super nice and if anything apologetic. Also his blogs are fun to read so I'm sort of shocked. I don't think he's a bad lynch and might switch to him if the votes are close.

Also this is concerning:
On May 01 2019 11:23 Jockmcplop wrote:
On May 01 2019 10:35 wherebugsgo wrote:
On May 01 2019 10:29 Jockmcplop wrote:
On May 01 2019 08:54 Holyflare wrote:
Oh well nothing more to add really. I think jock is way out of character and the town read(s) are pretty unjustified here.


Out of character compared to when I was mafia?


You gonna ignore my previous post?

You should answer this, and don't even think about skipping any of the questions:

Can you define what makes people suspicious? What types of things are suspicious and why would they be indicators someone is mafia instead of town?

Have you read Incognito's guide? What do you think your #1 priority should be if you are a townie?


Regardless of your alignment, at your current rate, you should know you're going to be dead.

In addition to that, let's see your reads.


#1 priority as town for me is finding scum.


And then proceedes to be super lukewarm about scum reads and doesn't scumhunt at all.

You really think mafia claims this and then does the complete opposite? You'd need to be really dumb if you didn't realise this is exactly where it gets you and i wouldn't say that's a really good strategy. But it's okay, maybe the 70% of the game can talk about something else after D1 since you're gonna have your lynch.

Mafia literally does it all the time. It's precisely inherently mafia to say good things and then not do them or follow them


Show nested quote +
On May 02 2019 03:18 Pandain wrote:
Also more importantly it's not a dumb silly contradiction that could be overlooked. It's a mindset contradiction




Show nested quote +
On May 02 2019 03:18 Pandain wrote:
I mean he could be town perhaps even likely. Im not even voting him. But it's day 1 so do what you do



Show nested quote +
On May 02 2019 03:37 Pandain wrote:
Why are you not against the lynch when you said there was only a five percent chance he's scum



Show nested quote +
On May 02 2019 03:38 Pandain wrote:
That makes no sense and is super scummy regardless of jocks alignment



Show nested quote +
On May 02 2019 04:01 Pandain wrote:
If you think there's almost no chance someone is scum why are you perfectly okay with his lynch


This guy is suspect numero uno. Anybody that uses the phrase "that's scummy regardless of Jock's alignment" is a guy that has tmi and makes it want to look like he's weighing up his options.


Not alignment indicative at all. rayn literally said he's not against the lynch but not going to vote for a someone he thinks is townie. Pandain's statement can be taken literally, is an excellent thing to point out, and the addition of "regardless of alignment" doesn't change the motive at all. I myself use that type of language a lot.


Let us also not forget that he agreed with all the points on Jock, fought against rayn that jock looked scummy, said rayn was scummy for not trying to save his town read and then dropped it all to try and shenanigan with rayn.


"fought against rayn that jock looked scummy" this never happened. Pandain consistently said he thought Jock was a fine lynch but he wanted to vote Rels/Vivax for other reasons. This mirrors my own thoughts, I wanted to pursue MZ but in the end I was fine with Jock dying.

Second part "dropped it all to try to shenanigan with rayn" is just a bad filter reading, rayn responded reasonably:

On May 02 2019 04:09 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 02 2019 04:01 Pandain wrote:
If you think there's almost no chance someone is scum why are you perfectly okay with his lynch

Because he is completely useless and it makes about 70% of the game actually play the game and not just pile their votes on random lurkers and do nothing else.

Look if youre town please try to understand that its not necessarily scummy to not play the way you want people to. If i said what i said maybe 5 years ago it probs would make me mafia but i am over trying to convince everyone and everything about that i am right. I play this game for my own amusement nowdays because of reasons, i dont care what people think of me and i only care about if i am right or not and say what i think into the thread. I try to emulate that as much as possible when i am mafia but as mafia i actually have a team and a plan and i also try to execute it. It shows at least to some people, it always does.

So idc, if you think i am scummy regardless of jocks alignment maybe you should try get me lynched for whatever on D2. It's gonna be almost as bad as this day pahse.


Pandain responded to THIS with "okay then if you don't think Jock is scum why don't we lynch Rels together"


Let us also not forget that Pandain wanted to lynch rels (based on incorrect meta that was highlighted several times already) despite a wagon building on Jock, his also scum read, to make rels active again. Then when that didn't take off, Pandain, master of misdirection, avoided joining the jock wagon (his scum read) again for terrible shenanigans.


This is probably the strongest argument for Pandain being scum. However, again, the events didn't really unfold like you are saying they did. Sure, if Pandain's sole purpose was to avoid being on Jock I can see him being scum. I'm not sure I can come to this conclusion though.

The best argument here I can see for Pandain being scum is that he voted for Rels before looking at Jock, then didn't really want to move his vote to Jock for fear of looking bad/inconsistent (and I think Pandain does this as scum). However if that's the case, why would Pandain move to Vivax later?


Then when Jock, his scum read, flipped town (after pandain said he's probably town for no discernable reason why arguing that he was still mafia) Pandain decides to call the entire wagon on Jock, his scum read, and also maybe town read, mafia.

No thanks. You mafia mate. Lynch Pandain when I'm gone.


He never argued Jock was town, he just hedged. Calling 2 mafia in the wagon I think is a natural progression that lots of townies make after a mislynch. Not alignment-indicative.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
May 02 2019 10:07 GMT
#486
On May 02 2019 18:50 Holyflare wrote:
To everyone else thinking bugs is town just look at where he spends his time when in thread:

Pointless already answered questions.

Calling cases bad but then not addressing the case and instead writing walls of text on defending a town read Pandain instead.

Even with Jock it was asking about reading the guide and then complaining about the Jock meta being wrong after the fact.


are you serious

I've avoided confronting you because I didn't want to pollute the thread, but if you're town, you need to be told this as honestly you're so arrogant, ESPECIALLY when you're wrong. I pointed out that I disagreed with your meta case on Jock right at the beginning and you chose to tell me I don't know how to read. I responded reasonably and instead of entertaining the thought that you could be wrong, you decided to make the environment completely hostile.

Now you call me scum because I disagree with you and provide reasons for my town reads.

Literally the only acceptable reason for you to play like this is if you are scum.
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
May 02 2019 10:18 GMT
#487
On May 02 2019 03:18 Pandain wrote:
I mean he could be town perhaps even likely. Im not even voting him. But it's day 1 so do what you do


That looks like a town read to me, not even a hedge.
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
May 02 2019 10:23 GMT
#488
On May 02 2019 19:07 wherebugsgo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 02 2019 18:50 Holyflare wrote:
To everyone else thinking bugs is town just look at where he spends his time when in thread:

Pointless already answered questions.

Calling cases bad but then not addressing the case and instead writing walls of text on defending a town read Pandain instead.

Even with Jock it was asking about reading the guide and then complaining about the Jock meta being wrong after the fact.


are you serious

I've avoided confronting you because I didn't want to pollute the thread, but if you're town, you need to be told this as honestly you're so arrogant, ESPECIALLY when you're wrong. I pointed out that I disagreed with your meta case on Jock right at the beginning and you chose to tell me I don't know how to read. I responded reasonably and instead of entertaining the thought that you could be wrong, you decided to make the environment completely hostile.

Now you call me scum because I disagree with you and provide reasons for my town reads.

Literally the only acceptable reason for you to play like this is if you are scum.


I stand by the comment that you were unable to see the differences, it's laughable since you've spent more time defending pandain in the same way I attacked jock than even checking up on Jock. The meta was not wrong in the slightest, he played differently to both his previous games. I just attributed that to being mafia. It was wrong, big deal.

Similarly, you've just done the EXACT same defending Pandain. I don't agree with it, in fact it looks like a scummy narrative. I think you're mafia for it because you've spent more time doing that than responding to the actual case in the first place. You then asked me a pointless question about 3 people I've largely already even talked about, which shows you just didn't care about reading me.

You simultaneously say I'm going to ruin the game because if I die people will sheep me but also call me mafia. But then attack me in a way that only makes sense if you know I'm town. It's my literal job as mafia to shit up a thread and make it hostile and out talk people but at every step it's the old fake hedge from you.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
May 02 2019 10:27 GMT
#489
On May 02 2019 19:18 Holyflare wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 02 2019 03:18 Pandain wrote:
I mean he could be town perhaps even likely. Im not even voting him. But it's day 1 so do what you do


That looks like a town read to me, not even a hedge.


and you had the audacity to tell me I can't read...


I stand by the comment that you were unable to see the differences, it's laughable since you've spent more time defending pandain in the same way I attacked jock than even checking up on Jock. The meta was not wrong in the slightest, he played differently to both his previous games. I just attributed that to being mafia. It was wrong, big deal.

Similarly, you've just done the EXACT same defending Pandain. I don't agree with it, in fact it looks like a scummy narrative. I think you're mafia for it because you've spent more time doing that than responding to the actual case in the first place. You then asked me a pointless question about 3 people I've largely already even talked about, which shows you just didn't care about reading me.

You simultaneously say I'm going to ruin the game because if I die people will sheep me but also call me mafia. But then attack me in a way that only makes sense if you know I'm town. It's my literal job as mafia to shit up a thread and make it hostile and out talk people but at every step it's the old fake hedge from you.


You stand by it because you're either bad or you're intentionally trying to goad me. Neither is a good look for you.

I'm hedging because I have a hard time reading veterans who act anti-town seemingly on purpose. If you're town what is the point of you being hostile to other players who disagree with you?
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
May 02 2019 10:30 GMT
#490
I am asking you questions because I want to understand your positions. But if you instead come back and say "oh look you're mafia because you're not bothering to read my posts" then you can fuck off, of course I'm going to hedge and think you're just being a dick because you're mafia or whatever. I'm trying to get you to calm down and lose the ego because I'm trying to figure out the god damn game, and if you're town your opinion is valuable to me. I'm not scum, I don't have any other motives. If you are town then we can work together; let's talk it out.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
May 02 2019 10:37 GMT
#491
On May 02 2019 18:35 Holyflare wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 02 2019 18:32 wherebugsgo wrote:
HF do you think any of MZ, Vivax, or BC are scum?


What a pointless trivial question which I've addressed already. Mz has posted shit all, could be anything. Vivax has done nothing to sway me one way or the other and didn't post anything I hated yet. BC has only made posts I've agreed with.

Rayn I can't believe you fell for my posts last night. Reread them as if I'm talking about actual insects :D

I will lynch bugs with you.



Rayn is this scum HF being fake aggressive or town HF who thinks he's posted something but actually hasn't?

I ask him about MZ, Vivax, and BC.

1. Up until this post, MZ is not at all mentioned in HF's filter. Here, HF doesn't take a stance.
2. HF did say the same thing about Vivax earlier, so sure, fine. But again, no stance.
3. "BC only made posts I've agreed with" no direct interaction besides that first weird mistake post HF had, we can come to this conclusion I suppose based on the fact that BC and HF both voted Jock but why should vote alignment matter in reading BC?

So why does HF say this is a pointless question when the only thing that HF actually said was #2?
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
May 02 2019 10:56 GMT
#492
On May 02 2019 19:37 wherebugsgo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 02 2019 18:35 Holyflare wrote:
On May 02 2019 18:32 wherebugsgo wrote:
HF do you think any of MZ, Vivax, or BC are scum?


What a pointless trivial question which I've addressed already. Mz has posted shit all, could be anything. Vivax has done nothing to sway me one way or the other and didn't post anything I hated yet. BC has only made posts I've agreed with.

Rayn I can't believe you fell for my posts last night. Reread them as if I'm talking about actual insects :D

I will lynch bugs with you.



Rayn is this scum HF being fake aggressive or town HF who thinks he's posted something but actually hasn't?

I ask him about MZ, Vivax, and BC.

1. Up until this post, MZ is not at all mentioned in HF's filter. Here, HF doesn't take a stance.
2. HF did say the same thing about Vivax earlier, so sure, fine. But again, no stance.
3. "BC only made posts I've agreed with" no direct interaction besides that first weird mistake post HF had, we can come to this conclusion I suppose based on the fact that BC and HF both voted Jock but why should vote alignment matter in reading BC?

So why does HF say this is a pointless question when the only thing that HF actually said was #2?



1. What has mz done since that required me to take a stance on him? Like I said, he's done shit all. Also I quite categorically do mention him in my filter. I ask him when he's going to stop fannying around not voting Jock, which now Jock has flipped town makes him look more suspicious. Regardless, I don't have enough information because he just hasn't posted enough. If anyone says they can form an opinion on him they're either lying or wrong.

2. Yup.

3. What has BC posted since that would make me change my mind? If you think it's anything to do with voting alignment or whatever nonsense then ok but it's clearly not and I've highlighted that in my post. If someone says stuff I am thinking before I've posted it when reading the thread there's a strong chance we're on the same wavelength and are the samw alignment.

That's a pretty basic tenet of mafia.


Either way, you've only just now blatantly gone through my filter to check these things and then point it out after the fact. You've asked me the question before you even knew whether I had answered them. So this question WAS largely pointless because:

A) you didn't know if I had already talked about them

B) you didn't actually care about the response because you've gained nothing from it other than showing your true colours
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
May 02 2019 11:04 GMT
#493
On May 02 2019 19:56 Holyflare wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 02 2019 19:37 wherebugsgo wrote:
On May 02 2019 18:35 Holyflare wrote:
On May 02 2019 18:32 wherebugsgo wrote:
HF do you think any of MZ, Vivax, or BC are scum?


What a pointless trivial question which I've addressed already. Mz has posted shit all, could be anything. Vivax has done nothing to sway me one way or the other and didn't post anything I hated yet. BC has only made posts I've agreed with.

Rayn I can't believe you fell for my posts last night. Reread them as if I'm talking about actual insects :D

I will lynch bugs with you.



Rayn is this scum HF being fake aggressive or town HF who thinks he's posted something but actually hasn't?

I ask him about MZ, Vivax, and BC.

1. Up until this post, MZ is not at all mentioned in HF's filter. Here, HF doesn't take a stance.
2. HF did say the same thing about Vivax earlier, so sure, fine. But again, no stance.
3. "BC only made posts I've agreed with" no direct interaction besides that first weird mistake post HF had, we can come to this conclusion I suppose based on the fact that BC and HF both voted Jock but why should vote alignment matter in reading BC?

So why does HF say this is a pointless question when the only thing that HF actually said was #2?



1. What has mz done since that required me to take a stance on him? Like I said, he's done shit all. Also I quite categorically do mention him in my filter. I ask him when he's going to stop fannying around not voting Jock, which now Jock has flipped town makes him look more suspicious. Regardless, I don't have enough information because he just hasn't posted enough. If anyone says they can form an opinion on him they're either lying or wrong.

2. Yup.

3. What has BC posted since that would make me change my mind? If you think it's anything to do with voting alignment or whatever nonsense then ok but it's clearly not and I've highlighted that in my post. If someone says stuff I am thinking before I've posted it when reading the thread there's a strong chance we're on the same wavelength and are the samw alignment.

That's a pretty basic tenet of mafia.


Either way, you've only just now blatantly gone through my filter to check these things and then point it out after the fact. You've asked me the question before you even knew whether I had answered them. So this question WAS largely pointless because:

A) you didn't know if I had already talked about them

B) you didn't actually care about the response because you've gained nothing from it other than showing your true colours


the more you post the more I'm thinking you are mafia.

Occam's razor: I didn't recall you ever talking about those 3 players before asking that question. Do you filter everyone before you ask them a simple question? Then, I found your response odd and strangely aggressive, so I tried to figure out is it because my memory was wrong and you did actually talk about those things, or is it because of some other reason? Obviously at that point I would go and reread.

I find it remarkable that after the flip you just decided to move onto the next lynch without even stopping to considering why you might have been wrong, or if mafia were involved in pushing that wagon. Even though you agreed with BC you should at the very least go back and reread and see if you need to reevaluate in context of the flip and I find it hard to believe that as town you wouldn't do that.


Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
May 02 2019 11:21 GMT
#494
Then I will leave you in disbelief. All the evidence is here for everyone to look at themselves now

Yes, I do filter people before I ask them questions because otherwise it is pointless.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
May 02 2019 11:21 GMT
#495
For anyone following this exchange, I find it remarkable that HF says this about MZ:

1. What has mz done since that required me to take a stance on him? Like I said, he's done shit all. Also I quite categorically do mention him in my filter. I ask him when he's going to stop fannying around not voting Jock, which now Jock has flipped town makes him look more suspicious. Regardless, I don't have enough information because he just hasn't posted enough. If anyone says they can form an opinion on him they're either lying or wrong.


when he was absolutely 100% fine with taking a stance and killing Jock over like 5 posts. This pretty much proves that HF isn't posting in good faith.

The "mention" thing is a pretty hilarious politician-like dodge too by just taking the phrase absolutely literally to score some points, followed by nothing more than basic summarization.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
May 02 2019 11:29 GMT
#496
On May 02 2019 20:21 Holyflare wrote:
Then I will leave you in disbelief. All the evidence is here for everyone to look at themselves now

Yes, I do filter people before I ask them questions because otherwise it is pointless.


this is something small but I want to point this out as well.

mafia is not a game where opinions are static for all of time. HF doesn't have any ground to stand on here because it's just not true that you can just come to the conclusion that you know exactly how a player stands on a given issue just by reading their posts, because townies change their positions constantly.

This is a pretty big scumtell because mafia are more likely than town to be very aware of exactly what stances they've taken so that they don't accidentally go and "contradict" themselves later. Townies OTOH are happy to change their opinions fluidly with the events in-game because they are operating with limited info and trying to actually figure things out.
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
May 02 2019 11:41 GMT
#497
Or since the last time I have posted that person simply hasn't posted since. Couldn't possibly be that though. I haven't posted much, not hard to remember what I've said.
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
May 02 2019 11:42 GMT
#498
I reckon you're gonna shoot myself or rayn, likely myself so that you appear to be "wrong" about calling me mafia though. That's what I would do to salvage my remaining credit in your spot.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
May 02 2019 11:45 GMT
#499
I mean, I wish scum would kill you if you're town because that would make the game much easier. You don't seem to have any reads and the ones you do seem to have are all wrong (Jock, myself) so it's not like you're contributing anything.

If you're scum lucky for you I still consider MZ and BC higher chance to flip scum than you. You're on par with Vivax though, and if I had to choose right now I'd kill you over Vivax 100%
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
May 02 2019 11:47 GMT
#500
I... Don't seem to have any reads? Wtf? I think pretty much I'm one of the only people in this game to even make cases on my mafia reads.
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