On February 25 2019 11:26 Ace wrote: I'd play if you have the lowest expectations of commitment from me. I'm working on some projects irl (including a Mafia project!) so I won't be able to read the entire thread and pay attention like before.
I have 0 expectations from anyone. And the bigger this game gets the less I have. But I may blindly follow you rather than reading the thread. Just saying.
I just started reading and 3 pages in stopped again. From this point onwards, I will be operating on a lynch all liars policy, because holy shit, mafia claims are the dumbest things I have ever seen. So yeah. Claim mafia beyond this point and I'll assume it's the truth. I also refuse to read anything else up to here, unless someone specifically points me somewhere in the first 23 pages worth reading.
Now can we keep the postcount reasonable? This isn't a mini, and I'm going sailing all weekend and have a deadline on Monday.
Well, clearly failing as you just posted 3 one-liners in a row. Think. Then post. Also, my intention is quite obvious. I'm going away for the weekend and don't want to read 1000 posts like your last 3 when I get back.
On March 02 2019 16:27 Acrofales wrote: Well, clearly failing as you just posted 3 one-liners in a row. Think. Then post. Also, my intention is quite obvious. I'm going away for the weekend and don't want to read 1000 posts like your last 3 when I get back.
then just vote the person you think is mafia before you go and stop being such a weiner
I don't have any such opinions. As I said. I read 3 pages of useless blather and then stopped reading. Iamp is doing his eternal angry-when-I-post thing and you decided to hop on the bandwagon of being angry.
Chezinu sent me his filter,and I like that. I might just play this game by only reading it through Chezinu's filter. At least that is (a) entertaining and (b) shortish.
On March 03 2019 02:10 Ace wrote: I think we should nominate someone who has barely posted yet as Mayor. There are a lot of thoughts already posted that could help us draw conclusions based on conversations.
Giving a semi-lurking/lurking player lynch power and forcing them into the game seems like a good move to me. So a player like Tumblewood or tubesock should be nominated (they've barely posted from a cursory filter check).
Why the fuck would you want to do this. I was planning to sheep you all game and you come up with an utter garbage plan?!
Non-posters are either not playing the game and don't have an opinion of their own. Hell, they might not even send in the lynch. Or they're scum and lynch a townie.
Are you scum, or just not thinking?! Ace, you're disappointing me
On March 02 2019 19:54 rsoultin wrote: Also, even though I'm using the mayor slot to demonstrate where my townreads are, it's pretty irrelevant. Regardless of who we pick they should just be held accountable for lynching who town wants to lynch -shrugs-
Or are you suggesting rayn that we just leave that to the mayor and not simply use it as a second lynch mechanic?
100% agree with this. Going off this logic Rsoul would be my vote for Mayor.
Also, just enjoying this interaction between Rayn and Rsoul.
On March 02 2019 20:33 Holyflare wrote: If anyone cares my reads align with rsoul. I think. Chez suspicious. Guy posting catch ups was it trfel? Seemed mediocre and not any revelations. Iamp piggybacking me suspicious. Don't care if I like what he's said about people non-posting. That's easy to do.
Didn't like rayn that much tbh. He seems to not be saying much but talking in walls of text and circles.
I dunno I'm sorry I'm a bit shit right now but whatever.
Pretty sure that's me, and I don't give a shit kus you always seem to hate the way I interact with the game.
I also strongly disagree about Rayn, I see him pushing his own thoughts and thinking and explaining why, nothing circular at all.
HF seems to be posting to post and I don't like it, but it's not really a scum read right now. It's just him coasting.
On March 02 2019 20:35 rsoultin wrote: Like for me it breaks down like this:
You've got trolling people. You've got lurking people. You've got lazy people. You've got some overly aggressives that aren't giving me warm fuzzies (MP). You've got people I'm not sure about who when I'm not sure about them have a nasty habit of being scum (Rayn) but because he's burned me so often I'm not sure if that's not where the uncertainty's coming from.
And then you have seemingly excited to play, I respect the shit out of his intelligence Chez playing but not saying anything interesting. That first group can hide a lot of bad town play. But doing something without doing anything ticks off my scum meter to a higher degree.
Rsoul is starting to convince me... Idk. I don't particularly want to lynch Chez myself but I get where her read is coming from, and I am not opposed to a Chez lynch.
#540 Bloody's entry doesn't jive well with me, but mostly due to their reads being pretty opposite to my own. I can sorta see the logic in Bloody's reads, but it's very much in a scum-range of what to post to enter the game. Gut read leans scum, but I think deserves more to be on my watch list.
Speaking of my Watch List, I think it's something like this right now: Meap Grack Jock Mr. Wiggles Acro Bloddy HF (just not comfortable with him just floating around the game making no impact, yet being relatively present)
Rels is also close to being on this list for "playing" but only making a "Hi" post then laughing at something rayn did. He only escapes this list because I know he has actively avoided playing D1 as town in recent games. It's the fact that he tried to play a little but didn't actually that almost has him on it.
I don't agree with much of this, but I do like the post.
1) Rsoultin is posting easy reads and not actually doing much poking. I don't know how she'd go on anybody's town reads so far, and definitely nowhere near mayor material.
2) Cobbler posted some reads and something provocative, and gave time for them to answer. I liked his first post and will wait for more. The fact that he's aggressive seems fine. Not going to do anything meta with it, because the last time I played mafia is probably 4 years ago or so and while I remember playing with Cobbler I can't for the life of me remember his alignment. I do remember him being aggressive tho, but not abusive.
3) Everybody should be on your watch list. We are not even halfway though D1... but if I take it to mean a list of people who are posting suspiciously, the only ones I agree with is Grack. I don't understand the list anyway without justifications.
Grack made a useless list post as first entry and then fucked off again. It seemed quite a lot like scum doing stuff to "seem active". And I remember Grack being quite a useful player, so I agree with you there. The rest? Haven't even seen a post by Wiggles, Meepack seems no worse than most people, and Jock I'd say more clueless town than anything else. Cobbler see above, and HF actually seems to be trying some things too.
EBWOP: that said, I like the post because I feel TT is starting to play and question players, and this does have a coherent train of thought that seems like he's trying to be useful this game.
On March 02 2019 16:17 Acrofales wrote: I just started reading and 3 pages in stopped again. From this point onwards, I will be operating on a lynch all liars policy, because holy shit, mafia claims are the dumbest things I have ever seen. So yeah. Claim mafia beyond this point and I'll assume it's the truth. I also refuse to read anything else up to here, unless someone specifically points me somewhere in the first 23 pages worth reading.
Now can we keep the postcount reasonable? This isn't a mini, and I'm going sailing all weekend and have a deadline on Monday.
Thanks.
Acrofales, the townie.
only lawyers sign their emails
1) This is a forum post, not an email.
2) No. Lots of people do. Including me and many of my fellow computer scientists
3) Is this conversation going anywhere? What in gods name are you doing?
On March 03 2019 00:07 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Stale takes by this point but I have town reads on TT and myself and I'm behind vigging Exo
@rsoultin I'm pretty sure Chez shitposts in every thread regardless of alignment. What makes him scum in this particular case?
you haven't read your role pm but you have a town read on yourself
Someone said that they were suspicious of imp, I'm now down with it.
I'm not suspicious of him but the way he always replies to people without quoting them annoys me greatly. I think it might be a tactic to make filters less useful.
Wait. Didn't you say this is your first mafia game? How do you already know about filter diving and what makes it more or less useful?
EBEBWOPWOP to the post about Ticktock above: his second post on page 32 (https://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=27277643) corrects himself and continues the line of thought. I like it a lot. Would vote for mayor.
On March 03 2019 04:34 Vivax wrote: I'd make Palmar the mayor, at least he won't get the opportunity to complain if the mayor fucks up.
Lol. That would be following Ace's plan too, right? :facepalm:
No, I am just a Palmar fanboy.
Me too, but he hasn't given a single sign of life yet. If he starts posting as town-Palmar I will sheep him til lylo. But if he's just gonna lurk til we lynch him or he gets modkilled I don't want him as mayor (mostly because a lurking afk Palmar is a scum Palmar).
I got to the bit where Oats starts shitting up the thread with random reads. What's the point Oats? Why just throw names out? Also, I think you called everybody in the thread except Mocsta scum... and you called him town off an utterly useless post. You padding your filter so people go like "wow, 40 pages. Must be town" when it's 40 pages of complete trash?
On March 03 2019 07:19 iamperfection wrote: damn you got good wifi on that boat acro
I'm home. I'll be out again all day tomorrow and back late evening. Probably 2-4 hours before deadline (similar to today), but at least I sleep in my own bed.
I'm actually gonna agree with Oats here. I don't see where he flipped. I do see him posting a long useless list of "scum" players with no explanation, and otherwise utter shit play as well. But I don't see the inconsistency.
On March 03 2019 16:26 Acrofales wrote: K, 1 1/2 hours of morning posts before I'm sailing all day again.
Summary of the night:
##mayor Palmar
zzz
this is why the sent push is pointless
Why is this pointless? Walk me through it. I disagree with lynching sent (although I do want him dead). I'm all for putting that responsibility squarely on Palmar's shoulders.
And no, waiting til n1 to start playing the game seriously is not acceptable as town.
On March 03 2019 16:26 Acrofales wrote: K, 1 1/2 hours of morning posts before I'm sailing all day again.
Summary of the night:
##mayor Palmar
zzz
this is why the sent push is pointless
Why is this pointless? Walk me through it. I disagree with lynching sent (although I do want him dead). I'm all for putting that responsibility squarely on Palmar's shoulders.
And no, waiting til n1 to start playing the game seriously is not acceptable as town.
36? players. You either believe him about his role pm blahness or don't. If you don't, by all means push it. If you do it's boring. People won't lynch Chez on the assumping he can be vig'd. So can this guy.
And mostly it's an easy thing to agree with and excuse not doing anything else, innit?
Though props for not being that guy at least.
People won't lynch Chez because they don't think he's obviously scum. So if you want to lynch Chez make a better case than he's RPing the brown, because if you actually read his posts there's some decent amount of effort into understanding the game there, IMHO.
Sent is different. Let's assume he's telling the truth. In that case the only ppl who know his alignment are scum. If he's scum then they'll try to save him and if he isn't they'll try to kill him. Lynching him is not the best option, because there's far too much confusion in that wagon to get any information.
Now let's assume he's lying. I can't think of a town reason for doing this, and so he's scum. The rest is similar to above.
Enters Palmar: he claims to feel strongly about killing sent. So let him do it. All you need to decide is if Palmar is townie enough. But if we decide Palmar is townie enough to be mayor then he is free to kill whoever he likes. He sticks with sentinel and sentinel flips scum? We win, yay! Sheep Palmar into Armageddon. Sentinel flips town? We figure out if Palmars policy lynch is an ideological thing or a scum thing. Either way, we get information about Palmar out of this, which is a great thing to get out of D1.
Oh, also, if sent was actually playing and being townie, I'd be more inclined to want him to live. But he has used this "foil" to be an attention whore and cop out of doing anything else so far. Not town play.
I'm here and caught up. There's a few posts in specific that I want to respond to, but in general:
1. Iamp is an idiot. He makes a case on me every game and it's always really bad. I will respond in more detail when I get to it, but his whole case is dumb. For starters, neither sicklucker nor oats are lurkers. Moreover, I quite obviously excluded the real lurkers. I want to kill the people who are popping into the thread, not contributing and fucking off. Not the people who weren't here at all. Iamp wanting to lynch me for dumb shit isn't new, and he's always wrong. He eats out of my hand when I'm scum and wants to lynch me when I'm town. And this is all I remember about him from 5 years ago. It's always fun. I'll decide later whether this was a scummy push, though. He hasn't done much of use other than his "case" on me, whcih he started before I had even gotten into this thread proper. Anyway, I don't think he is a good lynch target for D1. He usually starts to see the light eventually when he's town, and if he isn't, we can kill him tomorrow. Better stuff to do today.
2. No longer want to kill Sent. But the reason Palmar gets the votes is because he was clear and concise about his aims, whereas HF had many different goals. Now that sent claims he read his PM, and has actually started playing a bit, I don't think he's a good kill anymore. @Palmar: do you still plan on murdering sent?
3. I'm still quite happy with Palmar for mayor, his posts have been townie enough for me and I trust him to find scum a lot more than I do HF.
4. Lets lynch Oats. I'm on board with damdred, but he promised to contribute in 10 mins, so I'll give him until then. Oats has given no sign he has read the thread beyond looking for stuff to troll and throw out random names. Grackaroni has managed to look a bt more townie in his posts today. He pulled himself together and he is totally buddying me and I'm falling for it. Deal with it.
Why isn’t Palmar, Blazinghand, Rels, onegu, pandain, darthFoley, etc on this list too? Are these that much different than straight policy lynches?
Yes, they are... you'll note that you weren't on there either. Although I'm not entirely sure anymore why not.
Palmar isn't on there because I was (and am) voting for him for mayor. So no, I don't think he's scum BH falls in the Koshi, Mocsta, Pandain, Rels, Onegu list of people who hadn't posted at all, and thus I couldn't make my mind up either way. DarthFoley doesn't seem too scummy and had been posting.
Sentinel was the only guy there who was mostly policy, and only partially because he was doing nothing of value. The rest were all there because I read their filter and found nothing much to believe they're town:
Oats posted a craptastic bunch of "reads" and then went away again without adding anything to the thread except for a bunch of troll posts. Lets get this show on the road. Kill Oats for justice
FF wants to be mayor, but a town FF would know he stands no chance with HF, Palmar, Cobbler, Ace, rayn, BH and iamp. Yet that is literally the only thing he has posted about all thread. Other than that he's thrown some shade around without any conviction.
WoS, ExO_. Entered, trolled, fucked off. Basically did nothing beyond phone in their presence, promise better and fuck off.
sicklucker: I'll call him "Oats light".
Wiggles: don't really want to lynch him anymore, but he was there in the WoS, ExO_ list.
Other people aren't on there because I think they're probably town or there simply isn't enough information to figure it out yet.
On March 04 2019 06:17 Acrofales wrote: I'm here and caught up. There's a few posts in specific that I want to respond to, but in general:
1. Iamp is an idiot. He makes a case on me every game and it's always really bad. I will respond in more detail when I get to it, but his whole case is dumb. For starters, neither sicklucker nor oats are lurkers. Moreover, I quite obviously excluded the real lurkers. I want to kill the people who are popping into the thread, not contributing and fucking off. Not the people who weren't here at all. Iamp wanting to lynch me for dumb shit isn't new, and he's always wrong. He eats out of my hand when I'm scum and wants to lynch me when I'm town. And this is all I remember about him from 5 years ago. It's always fun. I'll decide later whether this was a scummy push, though. He hasn't done much of use other than his "case" on me, whcih he started before I had even gotten into this thread proper. Anyway, I don't think he is a good lynch target for D1. He usually starts to see the light eventually when he's town, and if he isn't, we can kill him tomorrow. Better stuff to do today.
2. No longer want to kill Sent. But the reason Palmar gets the votes is because he was clear and concise about his aims, whereas HF had many different goals. Now that sent claims he read his PM, and has actually started playing a bit, I don't think he's a good kill anymore. @Palmar: do you still plan on murdering sent?
3. I'm still quite happy with Palmar for mayor, his posts have been townie enough for me and I trust him to find scum a lot more than I do HF.
4. Lets lynch Oats. I'm on board with damdred, but he promised to contribute in 10 mins, so I'll give him until then. Oats has given no sign he has read the thread beyond looking for stuff to troll and throw out random names. Grackaroni has managed to look a bt more townie in his posts today. He pulled himself together and he is totally buddying me and I'm falling for it. Deal with it.
i dont think ive ever made a case on you what are you talking about lol
On March 04 2019 06:17 Acrofales wrote: 1. Iamp is an idiot. He makes a case on me every game and it's always really bad.
can you quote one of them ? IAMP is claiming it has never happen
No. Do your own homework. Lamp and I have played together a few games, but I have no idea which ones. But don't worry, I only have like 20 games for you to go through.
On March 04 2019 06:17 Acrofales wrote: I'm here and caught up. There's a few posts in specific that I want to respond to, but in general:
1. Iamp is an idiot. He makes a case on me every game and it's always really bad. I will respond in more detail when I get to it, but his whole case is dumb. For starters, neither sicklucker nor oats are lurkers. Moreover, I quite obviously excluded the real lurkers. I want to kill the people who are popping into the thread, not contributing and fucking off. Not the people who weren't here at all. Iamp wanting to lynch me for dumb shit isn't new, and he's always wrong. He eats out of my hand when I'm scum and wants to lynch me when I'm town. And this is all I remember about him from 5 years ago. It's always fun. I'll decide later whether this was a scummy push, though. He hasn't done much of use other than his "case" on me, whcih he started before I had even gotten into this thread proper. Anyway, I don't think he is a good lynch target for D1. He usually starts to see the light eventually when he's town, and if he isn't, we can kill him tomorrow. Better stuff to do today.
2. No longer want to kill Sent. But the reason Palmar gets the votes is because he was clear and concise about his aims, whereas HF had many different goals. Now that sent claims he read his PM, and has actually started playing a bit, I don't think he's a good kill anymore. @Palmar: do you still plan on murdering sent?
3. I'm still quite happy with Palmar for mayor, his posts have been townie enough for me and I trust him to find scum a lot more than I do HF.
4. Lets lynch Oats. I'm on board with damdred, but he promised to contribute in 10 mins, so I'll give him until then. Oats has given no sign he has read the thread beyond looking for stuff to troll and throw out random names. Grackaroni has managed to look a bt more townie in his posts today. He pulled himself together and he is totally buddying me and I'm falling for it. Deal with it.
i dont think ive ever made a case on you what are you talking about lol
Why isn’t Palmar, Blazinghand, Rels, onegu, pandain, darthFoley, etc on this list too? Are these that much different than straight policy lynches?
Yes, they are... you'll note that you weren't on there either. Although I'm not entirely sure anymore why not.
Palmar isn't on there because I was (and am) voting for him for mayor. So no, I don't think he's scum BH falls in the Koshi, Mocsta, Pandain, Rels, Onegu list of people who hadn't posted at all, and thus I couldn't make my mind up either way. DarthFoley doesn't seem too scummy and had been posting.
Sentinel was the only guy there who was mostly policy, and only partially because he was doing nothing of value. The rest were all there because I read their filter and found nothing much to believe they're town:
Oats posted a craptastic bunch of "reads" and then went away again without adding anything to the thread except for a bunch of troll posts. Lets get this show on the road. Kill Oats for justice
FF wants to be mayor, but a town FF would know he stands no chance with HF, Palmar, Cobbler, Ace, rayn, BH and iamp. Yet that is literally the only thing he has posted about all thread. Other than that he's thrown some shade around without any conviction.
WoS, ExO_. Entered, trolled, fucked off. Basically did nothing beyond phone in their presence, promise better and fuck off.
sicklucker: I'll call him "Oats light".
Wiggles: don't really want to lynch him anymore, but he was there in the WoS, ExO_ list.
Other people aren't on there because I think they're probably town or there simply isn't enough information to figure it out yet.
Also if a town FF would know he can't stand up against HF and whoever else's starpower why would a mafia FF run for mayor? Why say that running for mayor is the only thing I've posted when it's demonstrably not true?
A mafia FF would run for mayor as a "look, I'm doing something" with no chance of actually succeeding, which is what your "mayor" run seems like.
And yes, it is literally all you have done. Run for mayor and thrown shade: "chezinu is mafialike", "multiple people including me". "what makes you think Acro is townie", and this entire post:
On March 04 2019 03:35 Fecalfeast wrote: catchup and reads post
I think LS is mafia
I think rayn and HF are town but I have a stronger townread on rayn because HF is acting sneaky
rsoul was giving me mafia vibes but every time I would try to make anote on a quote for her it petered out so neutral until I can find my words?
I dislike acrofales just pointing at lurkers and agreeing with people. Seems not only lazy but trying to seem not lazy so mafia
palmar is lowkey playing on a weekend and that's suspicious
yes a number of my points are rehashes of things in rayns big post because I agreed with it
damdred is scum but maybe not
sentinel didn't say he read his role pm and I don't want to vote HF or palmar as mayor VOTE FOR ME AS MAYOR I AM TOWN AND WILL NOT BE SWAYED BY EVIL MAFIA FORCES THIS GAME
On March 03 2019 06:39 Holyflare wrote: If you don't comment on a really obvious inconsistency I'll be sad.
I agree Oatsmaster's play has been quite subpar so far, and I agree that his assessment of your play this game is awful. However maybe I'm wrong in this but I don't feel like his play is mafia-motivated at all. I don't really think mafia would want to enter the thread late and use a bunch of garbage reasons to push suspicion at people, including people like you who are quite likely to respond and respond with a lot of weight. It would be an exceptionally stupid move.
Maybe it's dumb but that makes me actually not want to lynch Oatsmaster right now. Or was there something else you were referring to?
EBWOP: also, HF's case on Oats was based on some nonsense that made no sense. Not on the reasons that Oats is actually scummy (although it did start that way). It was about Oats changing his mind when Oats never changed his mind (just threw out an unsubstantiated read and never commented on it again).
I wanted to give your post a response that was not based on my feeling or tone.
So here we go,
The first thing I will point to is meta for LS, generally speaking he gives a good bit of town reads that seem flimsy early and he always seems to be noncommittal early. This is based off of meta and just not this game precisely. I do not think that this is a good point to have against him, he is always flip floppy on reads and super paranoid.
However there is a great point that his reads lack many scumspects or anything revolving actual verifiable reads that say x is scum.
He also is not as helpful this game as he generally would be, q lot of time he would dig in past games to figure out if player x does x or y.
There is also the point of his weak rage, seemed to be under almost no pressure but this is a bull tell he generally only goes it as town but he broke this as scum years ago so is not something to fall back on.
I think, that there is a chance that he is scum and you are correct Sen just based off the laziness and the lack of discernable scum reads that he is not pushing.
However I do not think hes the best lynch today. But you did lit together a good case.
So who is the best lynch? You've been rather useless today.
Why isn’t Palmar, Blazinghand, Rels, onegu, pandain, darthFoley, etc on this list too? Are these that much different than straight policy lynches?
Yes, they are... you'll note that you weren't on there either. Although I'm not entirely sure anymore why not.
Palmar isn't on there because I was (and am) voting for him for mayor. So no, I don't think he's scum BH falls in the Koshi, Mocsta, Pandain, Rels, Onegu list of people who hadn't posted at all, and thus I couldn't make my mind up either way. DarthFoley doesn't seem too scummy and had been posting.
Sentinel was the only guy there who was mostly policy, and only partially because he was doing nothing of value. The rest were all there because I read their filter and found nothing much to believe they're town:
Oats posted a craptastic bunch of "reads" and then went away again without adding anything to the thread except for a bunch of troll posts. Lets get this show on the road. Kill Oats for justice
FF wants to be mayor, but a town FF would know he stands no chance with HF, Palmar, Cobbler, Ace, rayn, BH and iamp. Yet that is literally the only thing he has posted about all thread. Other than that he's thrown some shade around without any conviction.
WoS, ExO_. Entered, trolled, fucked off. Basically did nothing beyond phone in their presence, promise better and fuck off.
sicklucker: I'll call him "Oats light".
Wiggles: don't really want to lynch him anymore, but he was there in the WoS, ExO_ list.
Other people aren't on there because I think they're probably town or there simply isn't enough information to figure it out yet.
On March 04 2019 06:17 Acrofales wrote: I'm here and caught up. There's a few posts in specific that I want to respond to, but in general:
1. Iamp is an idiot. He makes a case on me every game and it's always really bad. I will respond in more detail when I get to it, but his whole case is dumb. For starters, neither sicklucker nor oats are lurkers. Moreover, I quite obviously excluded the real lurkers. I want to kill the people who are popping into the thread, not contributing and fucking off. Not the people who weren't here at all. Iamp wanting to lynch me for dumb shit isn't new, and he's always wrong. He eats out of my hand when I'm scum and wants to lynch me when I'm town. And this is all I remember about him from 5 years ago. It's always fun. I'll decide later whether this was a scummy push, though. He hasn't done much of use other than his "case" on me, whcih he started before I had even gotten into this thread proper. Anyway, I don't think he is a good lynch target for D1. He usually starts to see the light eventually when he's town, and if he isn't, we can kill him tomorrow. Better stuff to do today.
2. No longer want to kill Sent. But the reason Palmar gets the votes is because he was clear and concise about his aims, whereas HF had many different goals. Now that sent claims he read his PM, and has actually started playing a bit, I don't think he's a good kill anymore. @Palmar: do you still plan on murdering sent?
3. I'm still quite happy with Palmar for mayor, his posts have been townie enough for me and I trust him to find scum a lot more than I do HF.
4. Lets lynch Oats. I'm on board with damdred, but he promised to contribute in 10 mins, so I'll give him until then. Oats has given no sign he has read the thread beyond looking for stuff to troll and throw out random names. Grackaroni has managed to look a bt more townie in his posts today. He pulled himself together and he is totally buddying me and I'm falling for it. Deal with it.
On March 04 2019 06:52 Acrofales wrote: EBWOP: also, HF's case on Oats was based on some nonsense that made no sense. Not on the reasons that Oats is actually scummy (although it did start that way). It was about Oats changing his mind when Oats never changed his mind (just threw out an unsubstantiated read and never commented on it again).
On March 03 2019 06:20 Holyflare wrote: Only oatmaster could simultaneously call the guy I scum read mafia and then think that I'm mafia in the space of a post. Funny guy.
only hf can assume theres one mafia team in a game with 30 players
No, it just makes it obvious you haven't read the thread carefully enough to piece together coherent reads and are just throwing whatever you can in the open in the hopes something sticks. Pretty scummy oats tactic.
On March 03 2019 06:44 Holyflare wrote: No, it's that. That's quite a common oats mafia play. Throw darts blindfolded and be controversial and hope something sticks.
On March 02 2019 20:33 Holyflare wrote: If anyone cares my reads align with rsoul. I think. Chez suspicious. Guy posting catch ups was it trfel? Seemed mediocre and not any revelations. Iamp piggybacking me suspicious. Don't care if I like what he's said about people non-posting. That's easy to do.
Didn't like rayn that much tbh. He seems to not be saying much but talking in walls of text and circles.
I dunno I'm sorry I'm a bit shit right now but whatever.
On March 03 2019 04:20 Holyflare wrote: Don't really get any of the rayn town reads. He's a complete non entity.
Not really a case but you did scumread him.
Wouldn't say that's a scum read. If anything it's the scummy side of null and was more an extrapolation of everyone else's mindsets on rayn than a read on him. I just didn't agree with people town reading rayn and didn't understand how they reached that conclusion when he's mediocre af.
Ok.
If Oats didn’t hilariously get your filter incorrect, or at least say all your posts were serious, would you think he’s any different than his normal grouchy mcgroucherson town self? To me his entrance where every single person in the game is scum is normal town for him. Last I saw him as scum (years ago I know) he threw out maybe 4 scumreads and was a little less abrasive. Much less wave making than this game.
I don't think he's any different from his scum or town game that I remember. It seems to be a scum team strat to push me though because I don't think I've done anything underhanded or misguided this entire game. Just been honest and forthcoming yet have two people with somehow overwhelmingly strong scum reads on me. Seems majorly fabricated.
Oats had x amount of scum reads based on people that voted other people for mayor (which I didn't!) yet have you heard anything in depth about anyone other than me?
To me, Acro, it looks like you're really not paying attention at all. You should be happy that you have exactly the same points as I've already stated and should be happy to vote me as mayor.
Instead you're not even interested in someone who shares the exact same read as you. You didn't even know the reasons I actually voted oats and you voted on the wagon scum found it opportune to be on. Not looking good for you I'm afraid.
Really, not paying attention? In a 65 page day 1 i was mostly afk for? You're obviously right there.
Why isn’t Palmar, Blazinghand, Rels, onegu, pandain, darthFoley, etc on this list too? Are these that much different than straight policy lynches?
Yes, they are... you'll note that you weren't on there either. Although I'm not entirely sure anymore why not.
Palmar isn't on there because I was (and am) voting for him for mayor. So no, I don't think he's scum BH falls in the Koshi, Mocsta, Pandain, Rels, Onegu list of people who hadn't posted at all, and thus I couldn't make my mind up either way. DarthFoley doesn't seem too scummy and had been posting.
Sentinel was the only guy there who was mostly policy, and only partially because he was doing nothing of value. The rest were all there because I read their filter and found nothing much to believe they're town:
Oats posted a craptastic bunch of "reads" and then went away again without adding anything to the thread except for a bunch of troll posts. Lets get this show on the road. Kill Oats for justice
FF wants to be mayor, but a town FF would know he stands no chance with HF, Palmar, Cobbler, Ace, rayn, BH and iamp. Yet that is literally the only thing he has posted about all thread. Other than that he's thrown some shade around without any conviction.
WoS, ExO_. Entered, trolled, fucked off. Basically did nothing beyond phone in their presence, promise better and fuck off.
sicklucker: I'll call him "Oats light".
Wiggles: don't really want to lynch him anymore, but he was there in the WoS, ExO_ list.
Other people aren't on there because I think they're probably town or there simply isn't enough information to figure it out yet.
On March 04 2019 06:17 Acrofales wrote: I'm here and caught up. There's a few posts in specific that I want to respond to, but in general:
1. Iamp is an idiot. He makes a case on me every game and it's always really bad. I will respond in more detail when I get to it, but his whole case is dumb. For starters, neither sicklucker nor oats are lurkers. Moreover, I quite obviously excluded the real lurkers. I want to kill the people who are popping into the thread, not contributing and fucking off. Not the people who weren't here at all. Iamp wanting to lynch me for dumb shit isn't new, and he's always wrong. He eats out of my hand when I'm scum and wants to lynch me when I'm town. And this is all I remember about him from 5 years ago. It's always fun. I'll decide later whether this was a scummy push, though. He hasn't done much of use other than his "case" on me, whcih he started before I had even gotten into this thread proper. Anyway, I don't think he is a good lynch target for D1. He usually starts to see the light eventually when he's town, and if he isn't, we can kill him tomorrow. Better stuff to do today.
2. No longer want to kill Sent. But the reason Palmar gets the votes is because he was clear and concise about his aims, whereas HF had many different goals. Now that sent claims he read his PM, and has actually started playing a bit, I don't think he's a good kill anymore. @Palmar: do you still plan on murdering sent?
3. I'm still quite happy with Palmar for mayor, his posts have been townie enough for me and I trust him to find scum a lot more than I do HF.
4. Lets lynch Oats. I'm on board with damdred, but he promised to contribute in 10 mins, so I'll give him until then. Oats has given no sign he has read the thread beyond looking for stuff to troll and throw out random names. Grackaroni has managed to look a bt more townie in his posts today. He pulled himself together and he is totally buddying me and I'm falling for it. Deal with it.
On March 04 2019 06:39 Acrofales wrote:
On March 04 2019 06:19 rsoultin wrote: Eew.
Acro: "Palmar wanting to lynch sent is more likely to find scum than HF who wants to lynch Oats who I want to lynch."
rofl ><
Given that I want to lynch Oats, I don't want to vote HF to mayor kill him. It defeats the purpose.
On March 04 2019 06:52 Acrofales wrote: EBWOP: also, HF's case on Oats was based on some nonsense that made no sense. Not on the reasons that Oats is actually scummy (although it did start that way). It was about Oats changing his mind when Oats never changed his mind (just threw out an unsubstantiated read and never commented on it again).
On March 03 2019 06:25 Holyflare wrote:
On March 03 2019 06:21 Oatsmaster wrote:
On March 03 2019 06:20 Holyflare wrote: Only oatmaster could simultaneously call the guy I scum read mafia and then think that I'm mafia in the space of a post. Funny guy.
only hf can assume theres one mafia team in a game with 30 players
No, it just makes it obvious you haven't read the thread carefully enough to piece together coherent reads and are just throwing whatever you can in the open in the hopes something sticks. Pretty scummy oats tactic.
On March 03 2019 06:44 Holyflare wrote: No, it's that. That's quite a common oats mafia play. Throw darts blindfolded and be controversial and hope something sticks.
On March 03 2019 18:56 Holyflare wrote:
On March 03 2019 18:47 Tubesock wrote:
On March 03 2019 18:35 Holyflare wrote:
On March 03 2019 18:30 Tubesock wrote:
On March 02 2019 20:33 Holyflare wrote: If anyone cares my reads align with rsoul. I think. Chez suspicious. Guy posting catch ups was it trfel? Seemed mediocre and not any revelations. Iamp piggybacking me suspicious. Don't care if I like what he's said about people non-posting. That's easy to do.
Didn't like rayn that much tbh. He seems to not be saying much but talking in walls of text and circles.
I dunno I'm sorry I'm a bit shit right now but whatever.
On March 03 2019 04:20 Holyflare wrote: Don't really get any of the rayn town reads. He's a complete non entity.
Not really a case but you did scumread him.
Wouldn't say that's a scum read. If anything it's the scummy side of null and was more an extrapolation of everyone else's mindsets on rayn than a read on him. I just didn't agree with people town reading rayn and didn't understand how they reached that conclusion when he's mediocre af.
Ok.
If Oats didn’t hilariously get your filter incorrect, or at least say all your posts were serious, would you think he’s any different than his normal grouchy mcgroucherson town self? To me his entrance where every single person in the game is scum is normal town for him. Last I saw him as scum (years ago I know) he threw out maybe 4 scumreads and was a little less abrasive. Much less wave making than this game.
I don't think he's any different from his scum or town game that I remember. It seems to be a scum team strat to push me though because I don't think I've done anything underhanded or misguided this entire game. Just been honest and forthcoming yet have two people with somehow overwhelmingly strong scum reads on me. Seems majorly fabricated.
Oats had x amount of scum reads based on people that voted other people for mayor (which I didn't!) yet have you heard anything in depth about anyone other than me?
To me, Acro, it looks like you're really not paying attention at all. You should be happy that you have exactly the same points as I've already stated and should be happy to vote me as mayor.
Instead you're not even interested in someone who shares the exact same read as you. You didn't even know the reasons I actually voted oats and you voted on the wagon scum found it opportune to be on. Not looking good for you I'm afraid.
Really, not paying attention? In a 65 page day 1 i was mostly afk for? You're obviously right there.
Right, so try not to post like a person that doesn't know what he's talking about instead by way of reading the thread.
How can you trust Palmar to lynch mafia more when you don't even know me ?
Pretty sure we played a game together. Also, you kinda just answered your own question there.
On March 04 2019 07:22 Holyflare wrote: Acro, wave, oats, rayn, chez, ls, mocsta(?) (+a shit tonne of others that elude me) will be the lynch today. There's really so many people I could easily lynch and just not care tbh.
Acro is town.
Wave, oats I'm on board with.
Rayn is a no. Your fight with him didn't give me scum vibes on either of you. Just made me want to tear my hair out.
Chez also a no. He seems fine.
LS I can't figure out, and can't be bothered to right now as I already have enough ppl I want to lynch.
Mocsta said before the game he wouldn't be around and he wasn't around. His few posts don't seem scummy, but he'd better start playing tomorrow.
On March 04 2019 07:16 rsoultin wrote: I'm not liking wave this game for reasons I can't describe other than he seems like one of those old vulture headed muppets in the peanut gallery.
me too. He's popping once in a while to say nothing. His one post that contains something serious is also pretty bad, how Conversion is town because it's an early game wagon
Lol >< I know this is ironic but you playing D1 is skeezing me out, and though I think I'm obv town I also know I look a bit like a looney toon on crack so I'm not sure why you'd be top towning me in this crowd which I presume is the reason you're voting me mayor?
But I'm gonna ignore that as a later in the game concern.
Anyone else on Wave? Like I don't really remember ever being so great at reading him or anything and I think he's kinda blah like this as town sometimes but maybe not to this extent idk ><
72 hours of D1 is a blessing for me The way you doubted yourself over rayn was super townie
On March 03 2019 23:14 LightningStrike wrote: I just woke up and I saw HF and Rayn were having a fight over what Rayn said was a case of HF lying about his read on Rayn o.o Dunno how to feel I think it was a clash of egos over anything else. Rels didn't post anything over night which made me very sad Hoping Rels post today or tomorrow before EoD so I can get a proper read on him and same with Damdred. @Tina what you think of the fight from Rayn and HF?
On March 03 2019 23:14 LightningStrike wrote: I just woke up and I saw HF and Rayn were having a fight over what Rayn said was a case of HF lying about his read on Rayn o.o Dunno how to feel I think it was a clash of egos over anything else. Rels didn't post anything over night which made me very sad Hoping Rels post today or tomorrow before EoD so I can get a proper read on him and same with Damdred. @Tina what you think of the fight from Rayn and HF?
Come on man, just one scum read please?
I did gvie it earlier but and it still a lean MZ.
You're not even trying, and instead of trying you're being a drama queen. Just stop whining and start playing...
On March 04 2019 09:49 LightningStrike wrote: The whole idea that I am on everyone's scum list yet noone really want to lynch astounds me. DON'T BE A PUSSY AND JUST LYNCH ME. IF I FLIP MAFIA YOU GUYS GOT YOURSELF A LYNCH. IF I FLIP TOWN RECHECK YOUR READS UNLESS YOUR MAFIA THEN YOU GOT YOURSELF THE EASIEST MISLYNCH IN 20FUCKING19. JUST LYNCH ME GUYS I DON'T GIVE A RATSASS ABOUT GETTING LYNCHED BUT IF YOU GUYS KEEP NOT TRYING LYNCH ME THEN WHY THE FUCK SHOULD I EVEN PLAY? IF I DON'T GET LYNCHED THIS DAY PHASE I WILL JUST D OTHE BARE FUCKING MINIMUM AND JUST PLACE MY VOTES AND NOT EXPLAIN THEM. FINAL POST OUTSIDE OF THE BAREMINIMUM.
Ugh.
1) you're not even close to being lynched.
2) instead of some dumbass martyring, why don't you find someone you think is scum and tell us why? So far you want to kill someone who hasn't posted at all. We aren't lynching koshi today for not playing. Then earlier you said MZ, but i don't understand that read.
On March 03 2019 23:14 LightningStrike wrote: I just woke up and I saw HF and Rayn were having a fight over what Rayn said was a case of HF lying about his read on Rayn o.o Dunno how to feel I think it was a clash of egos over anything else. Rels didn't post anything over night which made me very sad Hoping Rels post today or tomorrow before EoD so I can get a proper read on him and same with Damdred. @Tina what you think of the fight from Rayn and HF?
Come on man, just one scum read please?
I did gvie it earlier but and it still a lean MZ.
You're not even trying, and instead of trying you're being a drama queen. Just stop whining and start playing...
Well, I messed that up. Have the post I wanted to make.
On March 04 2019 14:48 WaveofShadow wrote: Lean scum on Pandain for earlier weird commitment on Ace. I'd say solid vig target like MZ just said, and hell, just to introduce some WIFOM shoot him instead of me because I might be more likely to put in some effort at some point?
Statistically speaking I feel like there must be scum amongst the bigger voices this game. Doesn't feel like Iamp to me, and I can't read Holyflare basically ever. Not sure who that leaves but I figure I'll actually resort to a filter dive at some point.
HF is never scum here. If one of us is scum and the other isn't we tear each other apart. I'm not sure if both are scum...I can't remember playing scum with him but chipmunk memory.
It's actually super exciting lol >< it's been forever since we both rolled town.
And apart from the rsoul-focused reason, there's also how he handled the argument with rayn. Scum HF just keeps tearing and tearing, town HF backs off and tries to understand people after his stubborn argumentative streak is appeased. So.
I mostly agree with you.
Not sold on lamp. His main contribution is hounding me all game so far, so I know he is at least very very wrong. Still gotta figure out whether that's because he's being an idiot or just picked a target and stuck with it because it's easier as scum than actually reading the thread. Especially this huge one...
On March 04 2019 14:48 WaveofShadow wrote: Lean scum on Pandain for earlier weird commitment on Ace. I'd say solid vig target like MZ just said, and hell, just to introduce some WIFOM shoot him instead of me because I might be more likely to put in some effort at some point?
Statistically speaking I feel like there must be scum amongst the bigger voices this game. Doesn't feel like Iamp to me, and I can't read Holyflare basically ever. Not sure who that leaves but I figure I'll actually resort to a filter dive at some point.
HF is never scum here. If one of us is scum and the other isn't we tear each other apart. I'm not sure if both are scum...I can't remember playing scum with him but chipmunk memory.
It's actually super exciting lol >< it's been forever since we both rolled town.
And apart from the rsoul-focused reason, there's also how he handled the argument with rayn. Scum HF just keeps tearing and tearing, town HF backs off and tries to understand people after his stubborn argumentative streak is appeased. So.
I mostly agree with you.
Not sold on lamp. His main contribution is hounding me all game so far, so I know he is at least very very wrong. Still gotta figure out whether that's because he's being an idiot or just picked a target and stuck with it because it's easier as scum than actually reading the thread. Especially this huge one...
Thoughts on Palmar then?
I liked his strong drive for policy lynching sentinel. I'm a bit concerned about his lack of any follow up since his pressure worked to get sentinel to read his PM and actually play a bit. I'm still cutting him for mayor as I sure as fuck aren't cutting to get myself killed by HF.
On March 04 2019 14:48 WaveofShadow wrote: Lean scum on Pandain for earlier weird commitment on Ace. I'd say solid vig target like MZ just said, and hell, just to introduce some WIFOM shoot him instead of me because I might be more likely to put in some effort at some point?
Statistically speaking I feel like there must be scum amongst the bigger voices this game. Doesn't feel like Iamp to me, and I can't read Holyflare basically ever. Not sure who that leaves but I figure I'll actually resort to a filter dive at some point.
HF is never scum here. If one of us is scum and the other isn't we tear each other apart. I'm not sure if both are scum...I can't remember playing scum with him but chipmunk memory.
It's actually super exciting lol >< it's been forever since we both rolled town.
And apart from the rsoul-focused reason, there's also how he handled the argument with rayn. Scum HF just keeps tearing and tearing, town HF backs off and tries to understand people after his stubborn argumentative streak is appeased. So.
I mostly agree with you.
Not sold on lamp. His main contribution is hounding me all game so far, so I know he is at least very very wrong. Still gotta figure out whether that's because he's being an idiot or just picked a target and stuck with it because it's easier as scum than actually reading the thread. Especially this huge one...
Thoughts on Palmar then?
I liked his strong drive for policy lynching sentinel. I'm a bit concerned about his lack of any follow up since his pressure worked to get sentinel to read his PM and actually play a bit. I'm still cutting him for mayor as I sure as fuck aren't cutting to get myself killed by HF.
Is he who you think would make the best mayor, or just the mayor you want so you don't die?
If you could pick anybody other than yourself to be mayor, who would it be?
On March 04 2019 14:48 WaveofShadow wrote: Lean scum on Pandain for earlier weird commitment on Ace. I'd say solid vig target like MZ just said, and hell, just to introduce some WIFOM shoot him instead of me because I might be more likely to put in some effort at some point?
Statistically speaking I feel like there must be scum amongst the bigger voices this game. Doesn't feel like Iamp to me, and I can't read Holyflare basically ever. Not sure who that leaves but I figure I'll actually resort to a filter dive at some point.
HF is never scum here. If one of us is scum and the other isn't we tear each other apart. I'm not sure if both are scum...I can't remember playing scum with him but chipmunk memory.
It's actually super exciting lol >< it's been forever since we both rolled town.
And apart from the rsoul-focused reason, there's also how he handled the argument with rayn. Scum HF just keeps tearing and tearing, town HF backs off and tries to understand people after his stubborn argumentative streak is appeased. So.
I mostly agree with you.
Not sold on lamp. His main contribution is hounding me all game so far, so I know he is at least very very wrong. Still gotta figure out whether that's because he's being an idiot or just picked a target and stuck with it because it's easier as scum than actually reading the thread. Especially this huge one...
Thoughts on Palmar then?
I liked his strong drive for policy lynching sentinel. I'm a bit concerned about his lack of any follow up since his pressure worked to get sentinel to read his PM and actually play a bit. I'm still cutting him for mayor as I sure as fuck aren't cutting to get myself killed by HF.
Is he who you think would make the best mayor, or just the mayor you want so you don't die?
If you could pick anybody other than yourself to be mayor, who would it be?
Right now? Holyflare if he didn't want me dead.
So HF wants you dead, but you're sure HF is town? If you are Town, isn't him wanting you dead a sign he might not be town? Explain why you think he's town if you're also town.
I'm not sure he's town, but town being wrong doesn't make me suddenly think they're scum. It makes me think they're wrong. Other than that his posting has mostly been of someone trying to get information flowing and he seems interested in pulling threads and seeing where they lead. I like that.
But I'd vote HF over some others, who I have a stronger townreads on than HF, as I don't trust their judgement. I'd rather not put them in a place where they kill a townie and then we spend all of D2 arguing over whether it was a mistake or malice. I'd much rather do that with someone like HF, or especially Palmar, as I trust their ability to kill scum D1 a lot more than my stronger town reads.
And that's why I'm still voting Palmar for mayor because even if I'm not confident he's town: if he is, I trust his judgement. I trust it a lot more than HF's, whose judgement is suspect given he's currently voting to lynch a townie. That said, even with HF being temporarily (I hope) wrong, I still think his judgement is better than that of my strongest town reads.
Names of other ppl purposefully omitted, as there doesn't seem to be any reason to start giving scum strong town reads right now. They can figure that out on their own.
On March 04 2019 14:20 Mr. Wiggles wrote: What do you think of the Acro case Oats?
I've been going back re-reading his posts and the case on him, but I'm having trouble making up my mind. I'll probably sleep on it and re-read again in the morning.
I wanna lynch Acro yeah lol
Of course you do. I'm green and you're red. You still haven't followed a train of thought in this thread. Just throwing names out and hopping around til a train starts rolling.
On March 04 2019 14:20 Mr. Wiggles wrote: What do you think of the Acro case Oats?
I've been going back re-reading his posts and the case on him, but I'm having trouble making up my mind. I'll probably sleep on it and re-read again in the morning.
I wanna lynch Acro yeah lol
Of course you do. I'm green and you're red. You still haven't followed a train of thought in this thread. Just throwing names out and hopping around til a train starts rolling.
Die. Shitty scummer.
Quick question: From what I remember Oats is a spectacular mess as either alignment. Why are you so sure?
It's not a meta read. Last I played with Oats was like 5 years ago. I remember him actually trying as town, and just being antagonistic shit as scum, but I have no idea if he evolved. All I see is that he's shit this game, despite being present for a lot of it.
You said this was your first game. Yet seem weirdly clued in to terminology as well as the game itself. I asked this before, but you never answered: where did you learn so fast?
On March 04 2019 03:45 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: I'm VT btw
Now apologize for playing anti town.
I'm probably still going to kill you for playing anti town. Just so we're on the same page.
Can't you just give him a slap on the wrist or something? Or at least tell us why his earlier shit outweighs the later stuff in deciding who to kill? Because this just sounds lazy to me. And I need you to be not-lazy so I can sheep you.
Regarding iamp and my history. I guess I'm misremembering things. Could've sworn we played a game together where I was town and he just what on me all D1 until he came down and we win. Turns out we never played a town game together. The only game in the database that seems even remotely similar is DotA mafia, but maybe I was just oversensitive to shade being thrown at me as a survivor?
Chrono Trigger doesn't count. Was our first game together, and I still think it is the best game I ever played. I was given a 3rd party town aligned role and had to deal with a fake cop check all game long. Claim my entire role despite it being very much against my win on to do so and still won. Anyway, I got read as town by the entire town on D1, including Iamp.
DotA mafia I was a survivor, but mostly just played along with town. Iamp as a townie threw shade my way all through D1, although he did eventually calm down and waffled on my alignment a bit. https://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/514644-dota-2-mafia
This doesn't change that he's wrong now as I'm neither scum not third party this game. I'm a townie townie.
On March 04 2019 03:45 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: I'm VT btw
Now apologize for playing anti town.
I'm probably still going to kill you for playing anti town. Just so we're on the same page.
Can't you just give him a slap on the wrist or something? Or at least tell us why his earlier shit outweighs the later stuff in deciding who to kill? Because this just sounds lazy to me. And I need you to be not-lazy so I can sheep you.
He needs to repent for his sins and respect authority. I am authority.
Also, I don't believe a word he says, I'm like 90% sure he's lying. I think one of two options is the real one here:
a) He read his PM initially, claimed this gambit, got called out on his bullshit and is now trying to pull back from it. b) He didn't read his PM initially, and he didn't read it now. As soon as night falls he'll post "haha I didn't actually read my role PM suckers".
I don't think for a second he just didn't read his role PM and then read it without question when told to. People are prideful and his turnaround was... too easy. He didn't resist enough, didn't try to spite me at all for forcing him to do this.
Once you do anti town shit it takes a very, very long time for you to get back on my good side.
I'm actually on board with this. I had a similar thought when he claimed VT. However, he did proceed to then put actual effort into the game. And in particular I found his long list post resonated with what I had picked up until then. After claiming he also started going after damdred, LS and trfel in a way that felt townie.
I'm very much on the fence.
Anyway, if you kill sentinel as mayor, who are you planning to lynch? Or vice versa, if you push through the sentinel lynch, who are you going to kill?
On March 04 2019 17:59 Holyflare wrote: Don't mind lynching not acro, looks marginally better. This has nothing to do with his promise of voting me if I unvote him I swear.
Cool. You can be my mayor of you wanna kill Oats with me.
On March 04 2019 03:45 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: I'm VT btw
Now apologize for playing anti town.
I'm probably still going to kill you for playing anti town. Just so we're on the same page.
Can't you just give him a slap on the wrist or something? Or at least tell us why his earlier shit outweighs the later stuff in deciding who to kill? Because this just sounds lazy to me. And I need you to be not-lazy so I can sheep you.
He needs to repent for his sins and respect authority. I am authority.
Also, I don't believe a word he says, I'm like 90% sure he's lying. I think one of two options is the real one here:
a) He read his PM initially, claimed this gambit, got called out on his bullshit and is now trying to pull back from it. b) He didn't read his PM initially, and he didn't read it now. As soon as night falls he'll post "haha I didn't actually read my role PM suckers".
I don't think for a second he just didn't read his role PM and then read it without question when told to. People are prideful and his turnaround was... too easy. He didn't resist enough, didn't try to spite me at all for forcing him to do this.
Once you do anti town shit it takes a very, very long time for you to get back on my good side.
I think there's quite a few obvious reasons Sentinel could do what he's done, as town, and none of them should make him the lynch today.
bingo
I thought his tone changed posirively since the claim Not worth a lynch or mayor snipe . Especially wuth turds like acro / trfwl and exo around
I've been ignoring you, but if anyone here is a turd, it's you. Your case on me is because you believe I have a lynch all liars policy, which means you didn't even read my opening post... The post that everyone in this thread is saying is oh so terrible.
I explicitly stated that I was ignoring everything that happened before it, page 23, because I got 3 pages in and had read 2 scum claims and a mason claim that was instantly shot down again. I didn't say I'd lynch all liars, I only said I'd take all future scum claims at face value. And apparently it worked, because there hasn't been a scum claim since, making the thread an infinitely better place.
But I do agree with you on trfel. Scumclaim or no, he looks decidedly turdy. But so do you.
On March 04 2019 17:59 Holyflare wrote: Don't mind lynching not acro, looks marginally better. This has nothing to do with his promise of voting me if I unvote him I swear.
Cool. You can be my mayor of you wanna kill Oats with me.
On March 04 2019 07:22 Holyflare wrote: Acro, wave, oats, rayn, chez, ls, mocsta(?) (+a shit tonne of others that elude me) will be the lynch today. There's really so many people I could easily lynch and just not care tbh.
Acro is town.
Wave, oats I'm on board with.
Rayn is a no. Your fight with him didn't give me scum vibes on either of you. Just made me want to tear my hair out.
Chez also a no. He seems fine.
LS I can't figure out, and can't be bothered to right now as I already have enough ppl I want to lynch.
Mocsta said before the game he wouldn't be around and he wasn't around. His few posts don't seem scummy, but he'd better start playing tomorrow.
On March 04 2019 07:22 Holyflare wrote: Acro, wave, oats, rayn, chez, ls, mocsta(?) (+a shit tonne of others that elude me) will be the lynch today. There's really so many people I could easily lynch and just not care tbh.
Acro is town.
Wave, oats I'm on board with.
Rayn is a no. Your fight with him didn't give me scum vibes on either of you. Just made me want to tear my hair out.
Chez also a no. He seems fine.
LS I can't figure out, and can't be bothered to right now as I already have enough ppl I want to lynch.
Mocsta said before the game he wouldn't be around and he wasn't around. His few posts don't seem scummy, but he'd better start playing tomorrow.
Mate you really are mafia lol
?
He's pointing out you seem to have switched opinions on rayn
I have. The longer rayn goes without shitting up the thread the more I suspect him of scummy shenanigans.
That's not to say scumrayn isn't an abusive asshole. He's generally more tunnelly as scum than as town, at least in my obviously imperfect recollection. But rayn is being uncharacteristically passive and the longer it goes the more I suspect him.
Town rayn shits up the thread trying to find scum. Scum rayn shits up the thread for the sake of shitting up the thread. But rayn never doesn't shut up the thread. New behavior is weird. And probably scum weird.
And @iamp: I'm getting to you. I need a PC tho, so hold on. But I don't think you'll like that I haven't come to a conclusion on your alignment. You're null.
On March 04 2019 19:37 Acrofales wrote: And @iamp: I'm getting to you. I need a PC tho, so hold on. But I don't think you'll like that I haven't come to a conclusion on your alignment. You're null.
Iamp looks pretty town and has a case out on you, you need to work your ass off to stay alive if you're town.
I'm at about max work on this thread that I plan to do this game, so if that isn't enough, I die. I flip green and you lynch the shit out of Oats, Mocsta and all the other opportunistic scumshits who hopped on my wagon with little/no reasoning.
Maybe you lynch Iamp too, because 90% of the reason he looks so town to people is because of his case on me and his push for it. Anyway, at a PC, so I'll post my thoughts on Iamp, and then I'll get to work writing the paper that I need to finish today.
On March 04 2019 06:17 Acrofales wrote: I'm here and caught up. There's a few posts in specific that I want to respond to, but in general:
1. Iamp is an idiot. He makes a case on me every game and it's always really bad. I will respond in more detail when I get to it, but his whole case is dumb. For starters, neither sicklucker nor oats are lurkers. Moreover, I quite obviously excluded the real lurkers. I want to kill the people who are popping into the thread, not contributing and fucking off. Not the people who weren't here at all. Iamp wanting to lynch me for dumb shit isn't new, and he's always wrong. He eats out of my hand when I'm scum and wants to lynch me when I'm town. And this is all I remember about him from 5 years ago. It's always fun. I'll decide later whether this was a scummy push, though. He hasn't done much of use other than his "case" on me, whcih he started before I had even gotten into this thread proper. Anyway, I don't think he is a good lynch target for D1. He usually starts to see the light eventually when he's town, and if he isn't, we can kill him tomorrow. Better stuff to do today.
2. No longer want to kill Sent. But the reason Palmar gets the votes is because he was clear and concise about his aims, whereas HF had many different goals. Now that sent claims he read his PM, and has actually started playing a bit, I don't think he's a good kill anymore. @Palmar: do you still plan on murdering sent?
3. I'm still quite happy with Palmar for mayor, his posts have been townie enough for me and I trust him to find scum a lot more than I do HF.
4. Lets lynch Oats. I'm on board with damdred, but he promised to contribute in 10 mins, so I'll give him until then. Oats has given no sign he has read the thread beyond looking for stuff to troll and throw out random names. Grackaroni has managed to look a bt more townie in his posts today. He pulled himself together and he is totally buddying me and I'm falling for it. Deal with it.
i dont think ive ever made a case on you what are you talking about lol
Maybe not a case, but you always call me scum.
what do you think of holyflare
Probably town.
give a real read on me filter dive me
Your wish is my command, my dear luminary.
The ugly:
On March 02 2019 12:45 iamperfection wrote: the only thing i gathered of note from the first few pages is that holyflare had the same reaction as me to them.
which was:
On March 02 2019 11:28 Holyflare wrote: Jesus christ what a boring couple of pages you guys came up with. Just circles.
But for some reason, when I have the same sentiment a few pages later (but a different response to it), my post is godawful terrible. For no apparent reason. The only real difference is that I make it clear I don't want to deal with that shit for the rest of the game, whereas HF just calls it boring (and reading between the lines: pointless).
On March 02 2019 14:57 iamperfection wrote: like if he is mafia he did make a mess of those first few pages
Awkward Mafia is awkward?
I see where you are coming from, but personally he is still my strongest scum read.
What do you make of ppl like Jock, Grack, and Mr Wiggles?
2 havent really posted might as well ask me about someone who hasnt posted yet.
Jockstrap had a post i didnt like
Lamp is antagonizing people by instead of abbreviating their names, just changing them to something vaguely derogatory for no apparent reason? I think I will keep calling him Lamp after all, because perfect he is not. Petty? Yes.
The bad:
The case on me is utter shit. And the way he pushes it doesn't feel like he's interested at all. Basically, it feels like he latched onto *someone* and didn't care who, made a case and then pushed it for the sake of pushing it. Not for the sake of actually finding a scummer and lynching mafia, but for the sake of gaining standing with town and pushing a lynch. The case is just really bad, so I'll go through it point by point to show you all how dumb you are for sheeping it. He is very explicitly cherrypicking posts, pulling them out of context and placing them in a bad light: + Show Spoiler [details] +
On March 04 2019 03:56 iamperfection wrote: Acrofails is mafia.
Haha, namecalling again. You so funny. Nobody has ever called me that before. But usually when I actually fail.
I have mentioned his first post but i will mention it again because it makes my case longer and you guys like cases longer so it is easier for you to sheep
On March 02 2019 16:17 Acrofales wrote: I just started reading and 3 pages in stopped again. From this point onwards, I will be operating on a lynch all liars policy, because holy shit, mafia claims are the dumbest things I have ever seen. So yeah. Claim mafia beyond this point and I'll assume it's the truth. I also refuse to read anything else up to here, unless someone specifically points me somewhere in the first 23 pages worth reading.
Now can we keep the postcount reasonable? This isn't a mini, and I'm going sailing all weekend and have a deadline on Monday.
Thanks.
Acrofales, the townie.
Playing thread cop when announcing that your going to be away is illogical especially for someone like acro. This is a person that has had a 50 page filter before and he was also full of shit he has come back to the thread to post drivel several times. It also shows he isn't reading the thread correctly because he is scum. Thoses " claims" were clearly jokes and acro cant understand that because he knows who is scum.
1) Mafia don't suddenly lose their sense of humor, and a scum me would be far less triggered by such a shitty start to the thread: town shitting up the thread would suit me just fine. And if it were my scummates, I'd happily bus them later. You yourself called it boring. What is it? Funny joke hijoles? Or boring?
Also, what does my 50-page filter in Chrono trigger have to do with anything? I very very rarely post non-game content, including that 50-page filter you are accusing me of. I also haven't posted drivel. What crack are you smoking? This entire blurb is disingenuous nonsense. But hey, Lamp being bad wouldn't surprise me, I did have him eating out of my hand as a dark red mafioso in GoT mafia, so he has no idea how to read me.
He is also making reads but they aren't really reads.
It's D1. Nobody except scum is sure about alignments. So yes, I have soft reads. They change a lot as I make up my mind.
And on top that, it's a big game, so I don't keep track of exactly what everybody said when. So when HF got in a fight with Oats and then wanted to lynch him, I seriously had forgotten all about that. I only remembered reading the interaction and finding it not terribly convincing on HF's side, despite agreeing on the end conclusion that Oats is scum, his reasons seemed silly. Anyway, I digress, back on point. I have mostly soft reads:
On March 02 2019 19:54 rsoultin wrote: Also, even though I'm using the mayor slot to demonstrate where my townreads are, it's pretty irrelevant. Regardless of who we pick they should just be held accountable for lynching who town wants to lynch -shrugs-
Or are you suggesting rayn that we just leave that to the mayor and not simply use it as a second lynch mechanic?
100% agree with this. Going off this logic Rsoul would be my vote for Mayor.
Also, just enjoying this interaction between Rayn and Rsoul.
On March 02 2019 20:33 Holyflare wrote: If anyone cares my reads align with rsoul. I think. Chez suspicious. Guy posting catch ups was it trfel? Seemed mediocre and not any revelations. Iamp piggybacking me suspicious. Don't care if I like what he's said about people non-posting. That's easy to do.
Didn't like rayn that much tbh. He seems to not be saying much but talking in walls of text and circles.
I dunno I'm sorry I'm a bit shit right now but whatever.
Pretty sure that's me, and I don't give a shit kus you always seem to hate the way I interact with the game.
I also strongly disagree about Rayn, I see him pushing his own thoughts and thinking and explaining why, nothing circular at all.
HF seems to be posting to post and I don't like it, but it's not really a scum read right now. It's just him coasting.
On March 02 2019 20:35 rsoultin wrote: Like for me it breaks down like this:
You've got trolling people. You've got lurking people. You've got lazy people. You've got some overly aggressives that aren't giving me warm fuzzies (MP). You've got people I'm not sure about who when I'm not sure about them have a nasty habit of being scum (Rayn) but because he's burned me so often I'm not sure if that's not where the uncertainty's coming from.
And then you have seemingly excited to play, I respect the shit out of his intelligence Chez playing but not saying anything interesting. That first group can hide a lot of bad town play. But doing something without doing anything ticks off my scum meter to a higher degree.
Rsoul is starting to convince me... Idk. I don't particularly want to lynch Chez myself but I get where her read is coming from, and I am not opposed to a Chez lynch.
#540 Bloody's entry doesn't jive well with me, but mostly due to their reads being pretty opposite to my own. I can sorta see the logic in Bloody's reads, but it's very much in a scum-range of what to post to enter the game. Gut read leans scum, but I think deserves more to be on my watch list.
Speaking of my Watch List, I think it's something like this right now: Meap Grack Jock Mr. Wiggles Acro Bloddy HF (just not comfortable with him just floating around the game making no impact, yet being relatively present)
Rels is also close to being on this list for "playing" but only making a "Hi" post then laughing at something rayn did. He only escapes this list because I know he has actively avoided playing D1 as town in recent games. It's the fact that he tried to play a little but didn't actually that almost has him on it.
I don't agree with much of this, but I do like the post.
1) Rsoultin is posting easy reads and not actually doing much poking. I don't know how she'd go on anybody's town reads so far, and definitely nowhere near mayor material.
2) Cobbler posted some reads and something provocative, and gave time for them to answer. I liked his first post and will wait for more. The fact that he's aggressive seems fine. Not going to do anything meta with it, because the last time I played mafia is probably 4 years ago or so and while I remember playing with Cobbler I can't for the life of me remember his alignment. I do remember him being aggressive tho, but not abusive.
3) Everybody should be on your watch list. We are not even halfway though D1... but if I take it to mean a list of people who are posting suspiciously, the only ones I agree with is Grack. I don't understand the list anyway without justifications.
Grack made a useless list post as first entry and then fucked off again. It seemed quite a lot like scum doing stuff to "seem active". And I remember Grack being quite a useful player, so I agree with you there. The rest? Haven't even seen a post by Wiggles, Meepack seems no worse than most people, and Jock I'd say more clueless town than anything else. Cobbler see above, and HF actually seems to be trying some things too.
Does he think rsoultin is mafia i dont know can you tell? i certainly cant he is just showing shade without taking any real stance. Mafia hate making real reads because its hard when you have to "make them up" . Same think with cobbler he makes a somewhat read but its nothing if you really read.
I wasn't reacting with reads on rsoultin, I was reacting to ticktock wanting her for mayor, which I thought was premature. I didn't have a strong read on rsoultin either way. So... you're right, I guess? I couldn't tell if rsoultin was mafia. Well done! I was mostly just disagreeing with ticktock wanting her for mayor. I didn't think her reads were particularly good at the time, and her pushes seemed tepid.
This was a real read, it just wasn't a very decisive one, because I simply hadn't made up my mind.
Cobbler's one (or two?) posts at the time seemed solidly townie, but there just wasn't enough content. How is this a problem?
He then goes into coaching and then makes a scum read but has to add some nonsense he dosent really want to convince anyone to do anything really.
Yeah, I've done some coaching. I'd rather coach people I think are town, but wrong than nail them to the cross as you'd apparently prefer? What is your problem with coaching? And as for that last line, I clearly do what to convince people of some things:
I wanted people to look into Grack, as I thought he had a really bad thread presence at the time. I wanted Sentinel dead because of his dumbass shit. I think I made both those viewpoints very clear, yet you omit this completely from your "case".
It just hangs together from cherrypicked posts that you then gave the worst possible interpretation to.
On March 03 2019 16:26 Acrofales wrote: K, 1 1/2 hours of morning posts before I'm sailing all day again.
Summary of the night:
##mayor Palmar
zzz
this is why the sent push is pointless
Why is this pointless? Walk me through it. I disagree with lynching sent (although I do want him dead). I'm all for putting that responsibility squarely on Palmar's shoulders.
And no, waiting til n1 to start playing the game seriously is not acceptable as town.
36? players. You either believe him about his role pm blahness or don't. If you don't, by all means push it. If you do it's boring. People won't lynch Chez on the assumping he can be vig'd. So can this guy.
And mostly it's an easy thing to agree with and excuse not doing anything else, innit?
Though props for not being that guy at least.
People won't lynch Chez because they don't think he's obviously scum. So if you want to lynch Chez make a better case than he's RPing the brown, because if you actually read his posts there's some decent amount of effort into understanding the game there, IMHO.
Sent is different. Let's assume he's telling the truth. In that case the only ppl who know his alignment are scum. If he's scum then they'll try to save him and if he isn't they'll try to kill him. Lynching him is not the best option, because there's far too much confusion in that wagon to get any information.
Now let's assume he's lying. I can't think of a town reason for doing this, and so he's scum. The rest is similar to above.
Enters Palmar: he claims to feel strongly about killing sent. So let him do it. All you need to decide is if Palmar is townie enough. But if we decide Palmar is townie enough to be mayor then he is free to kill whoever he likes. He sticks with sentinel and sentinel flips scum? We win, yay! Sheep Palmar into Armageddon. Sentinel flips town? We figure out if Palmars policy lynch is an ideological thing or a scum thing. Either way, we get information about Palmar out of this, which is a great thing to get out of D1.
This post is ultra scummy. His stance on palmar reeks of having extra information one way or another. Palmar saying he is going to just policy lynch and fuck off should be called out by acro but instead he takes a wait and see approach because he dosent really care how it turns out. Acro is good player and he should be shitting on palamr for saying he is going to fuck off. Instead he says we will figure it out but dosent really suggest how to do it. Shouldnt he be puhing palmar now? why wait. he dosent really want to figure out palmars alignment because he already knows what it is.
not really pushing anything and has several other posts where he attacks low hanging fruit just to feign activity. Acro is mafia and that is who i will vote for.
I want all of you to comment on my case and vote acro.
Since when is low-hanging fruit bad? The fact that we agree that they are low-hanging fruit should make you ecstatic. These guys are playing a scummy game and we agree on it! Low-hanging fruit needs to be lynched immediately! Yet somehow agreeing that these guys looked like utter scummy trash was a bad thing? This doesn't make sense. Iamp is either really bad or I stumbled upon a nest of his scumbuddies.
Why the hell would anybody want to go after high profile players D1 unless they had some really serious ironclad suspicions of their scumminess. None of them had, including Lamp himself. Since then, I'm getting a bit less optimistic on some. BH for instance can go DIAF as far as I'm concerned after doing nothing useful all weekend. But at the time, I explicitly excluded anybody with an excessively low postcount, because I don't want to lynch into an unknown. I want to lynch scum. I also excluded anybody whose filter I read and came with at least something of a townie vibe. And I didn't have time to justify this list, but figured filters would allow inquisitive townies to at least dive in and see if they agreed. I posted my reasoning when I got back and was asked for it.
[/quote]
Then his follow-up isn't interested in a discussion. It's only interested in getting sheep on the wagon. He's not trying to investigate whether I'm scum, but trying to crucify me on the cross:
rsoultin was sorta convinced but not completely, so iamp says:
On March 04 2019 04:04 iamperfection wrote: i dont like your reaction to my case it struck me as fake
On March 04 2019 04:04 Damdred wrote: I like your case and it seems you believe it after all...
is that a vote?
Aka: "don't talk. just hop on the wagon and don't think too hard about it".
And a bunch more of such posts. There is no drive for conversation. It's a great play to stop scumhunting and start piling on a wagon... over 30 hours before day ends. Why stop conversation and start whipping. It's not even majority vote, it's plurality lynch so you literally don't have to whip everybody into shape early out of risk of a no-lynch. Someone is gonna get dedded. So why stifle conversation and start the whipping so early, unless it's to literally control the conversation and stop the scumhunting.
The good:
These posts seem like instinctively right reactions from someone who wants to figure out people's alignments. It's the easiest type of play to fake as scum, but they come off as genuine, which does make it a lot harder as scum. They also mostly echo my own reactions when I read the posts in question for the first time:
On March 04 2019 04:19 Damdred wrote: I have no pew pew left in my gun right now.
Truthfully I am sort of playing on feels right now, perfections case feels right, in that it makes sense and it seems he believes it enough to push it.
I think his approach right now is townie at least.
oh dude your scum arent you lol.
On March 04 2019 05:48 iamperfection wrote: feel free to vig blazinghand btw
On March 04 2019 05:49 LightningStrike wrote: I calmed down enough to just switching my mayor vote to iamp his case seems solid enough. Wont post for the rest of the day phase/night phase Bye
your so full of shit.
You really raged from like the softest pressure ever??
bs
On March 04 2019 07:12 iamperfection wrote: cant tell if exo being ultra bad or ultra scum
The unanswered:
Couldn't find the context for this. Who are you talking about?
On March 03 2019 02:09 iamperfection wrote: his posting is completely different than his last game where he was town.
Maybe we should try to make him cry again and see if he posts his role pm.
The conclusion:
I know, after all this you all really want me to come out and say Lamp is scum, but I don't feel at all confident that that is the case, and am definitely not pushing a Lamp lynch today. His case and the push is really bad. But it could be just that. A confused, bad, townie that thought he had caught a big fish. I thought Lamp was better than that, but going after my games with him showed me he really isn't that good. It's possible he got excited, started his "wagon of justice" prematurely based on an excessively bad, cherrypicked, case. Or it's possible he did so as scum with the sole purpose of having something to do. I'm not seeing why Palmar has a strong townread on him. But there's enough good in his filter to not have a strong scumread either. All I can say is I wish that, if Lamp is town, he was less bad.
On March 04 2019 20:45 raynpelikoneet wrote: iamp please tell these idiots what's right and what's wrong. I gotta work in like well.. now, and i wont be home until after deadline. Unfortunately my work is actual work and not one where you can play mafia like half of the time.
Firstly, he has been utterly useless and all over the place with his reads. Without any justification he just randomly threw out names of 11 people in a "look at me, I'm playing the game" fashion in the span of about 10 minutes. + Show Spoiler +
On March 02 2019 16:17 Acrofales wrote: I just started reading and 3 pages in stopped again. From this point onwards, I will be operating on a lynch all liars policy, because holy shit, mafia claims are the dumbest things I have ever seen. So yeah. Claim mafia beyond this point and I'll assume it's the truth. I also refuse to read anything else up to here, unless someone specifically points me somewhere in the first 23 pages worth reading.
Now can we keep the postcount reasonable? This isn't a mini, and I'm going sailing all weekend and have a deadline on Monday.
On March 02 2019 20:33 Holyflare wrote: If anyone cares my reads align with rsoul. I think. Chez suspicious. Guy posting catch ups was it trfel? Seemed mediocre and not any revelations. Iamp piggybacking me suspicious. Don't care if I like what he's said about people non-posting. That's easy to do.
Didn't like rayn that much tbh. He seems to not be saying much but talking in walls of text and circles.
I dunno I'm sorry I'm a bit shit right now but whatever.
On March 03 2019 05:15 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: I'd like to survive long enough to figure out my role so I'm going to disagree with the Sentinel Policy Lynch
3rd part=y
When asked to back it up, he didn't really do that, confused himself about why he had called people scum in the voting thread and just really couldn't justify calling anybody scum at all other than this:
On March 03 2019 06:16 Oatsmaster wrote: mocsta posted one post and peaced ~~ possibly town,
iamp is putting in way too much effort to be town
tictock is reaching real far for their reads
Acro actually is a lawyer and lawyers should be lynched cause they are bad men
HF too serious to be town
Ace actually posted the worst idea ive ever seen what was that nonsense
Everthing there is nonsense. They are literally made up reasons. He's not putting any effort into the game.
Exhibit B: the flailing
This entire post is terrible:
On March 03 2019 08:38 Oatsmaster wrote: Also hf, so either you are town and you play serious so my read is wrong.
Or you are town and you dont play serious so my read is right in the sense that if you were serious you are mafia. But just that my judgement of your posts is wrong.
It cant be both at the same time like you are trying to portray it here.
It's your read that I'm too serious but over 50% of my filter at that point was not serious. Those posts you've quoted are also just reads. In what previous game of mine have I not given reads and instead have just done this amazing nothingness and fun you're trying to portray me as doing as town?
So the green part is that you are saying that you arent playing seriously this game in your opinion.
The bolded green part is that you are saying that you do play serious as town.
SOOOOOO ARE YOU TOWN THIS GAME HF??
He started off thinking HF was scum for "putting in too much effort"? Now is trying to back out while trying to rationalize how and why he is not convinced of his case, but it doesn't look sincere. Doesn't pass the smell test, and feels like he is just trying to get off HF's radar. Especially as he just drops HF entirely the moment HF drops him. If this is some big "logical inconsistency" that got him all riled up about HF's play, then why is he not following up? HF kept posting and playing in a similar manner, yet Oats never mentioned him again. What changed? Nothing in particular, except that HF went from thinking Oats was scum to voting alongside him:
On March 02 2019 20:33 Holyflare wrote: If anyone cares my reads align with rsoul. I think. Chez suspicious. Guy posting catch ups was it trfel? Seemed mediocre and not any revelations. Iamp piggybacking me suspicious. Don't care if I like what he's said about people non-posting. That's easy to do.
Didn't like rayn that much tbh. He seems to not be saying much but talking in walls of text and circles.
I dunno I'm sorry I'm a bit shit right now but whatever.
On March 03 2019 04:20 Holyflare wrote: Don't really get any of the rayn town reads. He's a complete non entity.
Not really a case but you did scumread him.
Wouldn't say that's a scum read. If anything it's the scummy side of null and was more an extrapolation of everyone else's mindsets on rayn than a read on him. I just didn't agree with people town reading rayn and didn't understand how they reached that conclusion when he's mediocre af.
Ok.
If Oats didn’t hilariously get your filter incorrect, or at least say all your posts were serious, would you think he’s any different than his normal grouchy mcgroucherson town self? To me his entrance where every single person in the game is scum is normal town for him. Last I saw him as scum (years ago I know) he threw out maybe 4 scumreads and was a little less abrasive. Much less wave making than this game.
I don't think he's any different from his scum or town game that I remember. It seems to be a scum team strat to push me though because I don't think I've done anything underhanded or misguided this entire game. Just been honest and forthcoming yet have two people with somehow overwhelmingly strong scum reads on me. Seems majorly fabricated.
Oats had x amount of scum reads based on people that voted other people for mayor (which I didn't!) yet have you heard anything in depth about anyone other than me?
On March 04 2019 06:17 Acrofales wrote: I'm here and caught up. There's a few posts in specific that I want to respond to, but in general:
1. Iamp is an idiot. He makes a case on me every game and it's always really bad. I will respond in more detail when I get to it, but his whole case is dumb. For starters, neither sicklucker nor oats are lurkers. Moreover, I quite obviously excluded the real lurkers. I want to kill the people who are popping into the thread, not contributing and fucking off. Not the people who weren't here at all. Iamp wanting to lynch me for dumb shit isn't new, and he's always wrong. He eats out of my hand when I'm scum and wants to lynch me when I'm town. And this is all I remember about him from 5 years ago. It's always fun. I'll decide later whether this was a scummy push, though. He hasn't done much of use other than his "case" on me, whcih he started before I had even gotten into this thread proper. Anyway, I don't think he is a good lynch target for D1. He usually starts to see the light eventually when he's town, and if he isn't, we can kill him tomorrow. Better stuff to do today.
2. No longer want to kill Sent. But the reason Palmar gets the votes is because he was clear and concise about his aims, whereas HF had many different goals. Now that sent claims he read his PM, and has actually started playing a bit, I don't think he's a good kill anymore. @Palmar: do you still plan on murdering sent?
3. I'm still quite happy with Palmar for mayor, his posts have been townie enough for me and I trust him to find scum a lot more than I do HF.
4. Lets lynch Oats. I'm on board with damdred, but he promised to contribute in 10 mins, so I'll give him until then. Oats has given no sign he has read the thread beyond looking for stuff to troll and throw out random names. Grackaroni has managed to look a bt more townie in his posts today. He pulled himself together and he is totally buddying me and I'm falling for it. Deal with it.
3. I trust Palmer to find mafia a lot more than Holyflare.
4. Let's lynch the wagon Holyflare started.
Ok Acro. Have my vote.
So HF is off his back and voting for me, so not worth the effort anymore. In fact, he doesn't even appear to notice HF is now voting alongside him.
Because one of the advantages of flinging "reads" everywhere is one of them is bound to stick. And that one was me. Why does Oats think I'm scum? I still don't really know. I'm not a lawyer. That's for damn sure.
All I got from him is a bunch of post-hoc rationalization about why some of the stuff other people (Palmar, Grack) said look townie are not townie. But he has not once made sense of why I'm scum. It's almost like all his reads are just picked at random and he'll run with whatever works.
He's not even trying to understand what's happening. Just trying to spin:
Why isn’t Palmar, Blazinghand, Rels, onegu, pandain, darthFoley, etc on this list too? Are these that much different than straight policy lynches?
Yes, they are... you'll note that you weren't on there either. Although I'm not entirely sure anymore why not.
Palmar isn't on there because I was (and am) voting for him for mayor. So no, I don't think he's scum BH falls in the Koshi, Mocsta, Pandain, Rels, Onegu list of people who hadn't posted at all, and thus I couldn't make my mind up either way. DarthFoley doesn't seem too scummy and had been posting.
Sentinel was the only guy there who was mostly policy, and only partially because he was doing nothing of value. The rest were all there because I read their filter and found nothing much to believe they're town:
Oats posted a craptastic bunch of "reads" and then went away again without adding anything to the thread except for a bunch of troll posts. Lets get this show on the road. Kill Oats for justice
FF wants to be mayor, but a town FF would know he stands no chance with HF, Palmar, Cobbler, Ace, rayn, BH and iamp. Yet that is literally the only thing he has posted about all thread. Other than that he's thrown some shade around without any conviction.
WoS, ExO_. Entered, trolled, fucked off. Basically did nothing beyond phone in their presence, promise better and fuck off.
sicklucker: I'll call him "Oats light".
Wiggles: don't really want to lynch him anymore, but he was there in the WoS, ExO_ list.
Other people aren't on there because I think they're probably town or there simply isn't enough information to figure it out yet.
On March 04 2019 06:17 Acrofales wrote: I'm here and caught up. There's a few posts in specific that I want to respond to, but in general:
1. Iamp is an idiot. He makes a case on me every game and it's always really bad. I will respond in more detail when I get to it, but his whole case is dumb. For starters, neither sicklucker nor oats are lurkers. Moreover, I quite obviously excluded the real lurkers. I want to kill the people who are popping into the thread, not contributing and fucking off. Not the people who weren't here at all. Iamp wanting to lynch me for dumb shit isn't new, and he's always wrong. He eats out of my hand when I'm scum and wants to lynch me when I'm town. And this is all I remember about him from 5 years ago. It's always fun. I'll decide later whether this was a scummy push, though. He hasn't done much of use other than his "case" on me, whcih he started before I had even gotten into this thread proper. Anyway, I don't think he is a good lynch target for D1. He usually starts to see the light eventually when he's town, and if he isn't, we can kill him tomorrow. Better stuff to do today.
2. No longer want to kill Sent. But the reason Palmar gets the votes is because he was clear and concise about his aims, whereas HF had many different goals. Now that sent claims he read his PM, and has actually started playing a bit, I don't think he's a good kill anymore. @Palmar: do you still plan on murdering sent?
3. I'm still quite happy with Palmar for mayor, his posts have been townie enough for me and I trust him to find scum a lot more than I do HF.
4. Lets lynch Oats. I'm on board with damdred, but he promised to contribute in 10 mins, so I'll give him until then. Oats has given no sign he has read the thread beyond looking for stuff to troll and throw out random names. Grackaroni has managed to look a bt more townie in his posts today. He pulled himself together and he is totally buddying me and I'm falling for it. Deal with it.
On March 04 2019 06:39 Acrofales wrote:
On March 04 2019 06:19 rsoultin wrote: Eew.
Acro: "Palmar wanting to lynch sent is more likely to find scum than HF who wants to lynch Oats who I want to lynch."
rofl ><
Given that I want to lynch Oats, I don't want to vote HF to mayor kill him. It defeats the purpose.
On March 04 2019 06:52 Acrofales wrote: EBWOP: also, HF's case on Oats was based on some nonsense that made no sense. Not on the reasons that Oats is actually scummy (although it did start that way). It was about Oats changing his mind when Oats never changed his mind (just threw out an unsubstantiated read and never commented on it again).
On March 03 2019 06:25 Holyflare wrote:
On March 03 2019 06:21 Oatsmaster wrote:
On March 03 2019 06:20 Holyflare wrote: Only oatmaster could simultaneously call the guy I scum read mafia and then think that I'm mafia in the space of a post. Funny guy.
only hf can assume theres one mafia team in a game with 30 players
No, it just makes it obvious you haven't read the thread carefully enough to piece together coherent reads and are just throwing whatever you can in the open in the hopes something sticks. Pretty scummy oats tactic.
On March 03 2019 06:44 Holyflare wrote: No, it's that. That's quite a common oats mafia play. Throw darts blindfolded and be controversial and hope something sticks.
On March 03 2019 18:56 Holyflare wrote:
On March 03 2019 18:47 Tubesock wrote:
On March 03 2019 18:35 Holyflare wrote:
On March 03 2019 18:30 Tubesock wrote:
On March 02 2019 20:33 Holyflare wrote: If anyone cares my reads align with rsoul. I think. Chez suspicious. Guy posting catch ups was it trfel? Seemed mediocre and not any revelations. Iamp piggybacking me suspicious. Don't care if I like what he's said about people non-posting. That's easy to do.
Didn't like rayn that much tbh. He seems to not be saying much but talking in walls of text and circles.
I dunno I'm sorry I'm a bit shit right now but whatever.
On March 03 2019 04:20 Holyflare wrote: Don't really get any of the rayn town reads. He's a complete non entity.
Not really a case but you did scumread him.
Wouldn't say that's a scum read. If anything it's the scummy side of null and was more an extrapolation of everyone else's mindsets on rayn than a read on him. I just didn't agree with people town reading rayn and didn't understand how they reached that conclusion when he's mediocre af.
Ok.
If Oats didn’t hilariously get your filter incorrect, or at least say all your posts were serious, would you think he’s any different than his normal grouchy mcgroucherson town self? To me his entrance where every single person in the game is scum is normal town for him. Last I saw him as scum (years ago I know) he threw out maybe 4 scumreads and was a little less abrasive. Much less wave making than this game.
I don't think he's any different from his scum or town game that I remember. It seems to be a scum team strat to push me though because I don't think I've done anything underhanded or misguided this entire game. Just been honest and forthcoming yet have two people with somehow overwhelmingly strong scum reads on me. Seems majorly fabricated.
Oats had x amount of scum reads based on people that voted other people for mayor (which I didn't!) yet have you heard anything in depth about anyone other than me?
To me, Acro, it looks like you're really not paying attention at all. You should be happy that you have exactly the same points as I've already stated and should be happy to vote me as mayor.
Instead you're not even interested in someone who shares the exact same read as you. You didn't even know the reasons I actually voted oats and you voted on the wagon scum found it opportune to be on. Not looking good for you I'm afraid.
Really, not paying attention? In a 65 page day 1 i was mostly afk for? You're obviously right there.
nice boiling down his points into a singular answer that actually confirms what hes saying Acro
Indeed. I was agreeing with him. I wasn't paying close attention. Yet somehow me agreeing with HF about my own playstyle is bad. Scummy? I dunno. But definitely worth throwing shade at in a drive-by sniping.
Oats just doesn't engage. He takes potshots as if they are gotchas, because his mind is already made up: as long as a townie gets lynched it's a great D1. And right now, I'm the most likely to be lynched, so non-committal snipes on me is the way to go.
There isn't much more in his filter. He enters the conversation and leaves before getting anything done. Asks pointless questions, and generally just floats around the surface looking "busy" without putting any effort at all into the game. Most notably not into his mafia cases against HF or me (the only two he has followed up on beyond a list post).
On March 04 2019 22:11 Palmar wrote: I'm also interested in people who do not want to lynch Conversion and why.
Two reasons:
I don't think a scumversion would be bold enough to come into the thread and be the second guy to claim mafia. But I don't really know him and I did find it a shitty entrance to the thread. But useless townies being bad is not scum. It just seems too brazen for scum. I don't know conversion and maybe he does play this kind of game as scum where he drops in and claims scum, but it seems like he is drawing attention for no reason except to be an idiot. Which is, unfortunately, far more likely for town.
Being excessively lazy just seems to be his thing:
On March 03 2019 23:52 Conversion wrote: someone xplain to me where mayors get a vig lynch basically? can’t find the info
Regardless of town or scum, this is just being lazy. It is 2 clicks to open the OP and click on "Day 1" (okay, 3, because it's spoilered), where you can read all about the mayor election. Instead, he wants someone else to do it for him. That makes the post you tripped over far less telling. He's just being lazy, again.
He is completely useless and might be scum. But I don't think he's a good lynch today.
On March 04 2019 23:20 Vivax wrote: To me it just looks like you're beating around the bush with a claim up your sleeve.
Claim it and be done with it.
wut. I'm literally VT in my role PM why would you want to lynch me
Right. Then tell us why you could find the time to ask other people whether MZ had responded to you, but didn't bother clicking his filter, which probably takes less time, to find the answer to this question you found urgent enough to post about.
Or, in other words, explain why Palmar's case is wrong. You have a few hours. Also, do some scumhunting.
On March 04 2019 23:29 iamperfection wrote: Who are the scum on your wagon acro has to be one or two at least no?
Oats, duh.
Not a big fan of mocsta, damdred or rayn either, and FF is meh. In fact, you are in general not in good company, because it is literally you, Tumblewood (haven't filtered enough to have an opinion on, but didn't find much worth commenting on last time I looked) and a bunch of scummy fucks right now. If we are to judge one by the company he keeps, you're in real trouble.
On March 04 2019 23:29 iamperfection wrote: Who are the scum on your wagon acro has to be one or two at least no?
Oats, duh.
Not a big fan of mocsta, damdred or rayn either, and FF is meh. In fact, you are in general not in good company, because it is literally you, Tumblewood (haven't filtered enough to have an opinion on, but didn't find much worth commenting on last time I looked) and a bunch of scummy fucks right now. If we are to judge one by the company he keeps, you're in real trouble.
So the whole wagon is basically scum. are you even trying to think?
Not scum. Just scummy. It's ok. We can only lynch one person today, and that person probably isn't even on my wagon, because nobody wants to lynch Oats
Anyway, you're right. But I don't know how you think that makes Oats look better. He has been taking potshots at me all day in the thread, but hasn't put his vote where his mouth is. Because people actually look at the vote switching later in the game.
On March 04 2019 23:28 Vivax wrote: If you're town here's what you're going to do:
You accept your swift merciful death and thank us for relieving you from your duties in a busy week irl. You try to find oddities in the peeps pushing for your lynch and/or summarize for us why MZ should be the next lynch, cause that seems to be your only scumread atm.
I'll honor your contributions, take them into consideration and if found worthy carry on your will throughout the game.
Very town. I also always say these things when I am town and convinced. Cool stuff.
Koshi how do you feel about rolling town?
Very good thank you for asking. Being mafia is always a burden on my life. I eat, sleep and live less happy when I am still alive in a game as mafia. But now I am happy and I can do my thing.
Life is good.
Side story. I had soccer yesterday and I went to the MacDo drive in after with gf and asked for a cheeseburger, paid the 1.5 euro for the cheeseburger, but instead got a double cheeseburger. And I told my gf that this was the sign of a good week. And today I rolled town.
Coincidence? I think not.
I think we should lynch you because you think McD cheeseburgers are worth eating. So much so that you're happy when you get a double cheeseburger for free.
On March 05 2019 00:20 Holyflare wrote: Palmar gonna get mayor lynched
For real though fuck flight delays I'm stuck in the airport forever.
Do you really want to turn the first promising game in ages into a goddamn shithole by doing something that idiotic?
I think he's mafia. I also think that's exactly the reason his mayoral wagon gained any traction whatsoever. Why would I not want to lynch my mafia read and give the most information to the game possible?
Before I said anything he hadn't even had a real scum read.
On March 05 2019 01:44 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Managed to skim the thread before work. I like the Conversion case better than Acro and Oats right now for a D1 lynch. Missed the asking for permission angle the first time through, but even the recent stuff is weirdly fixated on MZ. Tunnel tunnel tunnel
No one else seems to give a crap about Tubesock. I'd be happier if people came out and argued I'm wrong for whatever reason, but instead Tube's being ignored by my town reads.
Will try to catch you again over lunch if possible, but otherwise won't be active until after lynch
Why are you voting for a HF mayor?
On March 04 2019 02:31 Mr. Wiggles wrote: HF came up with the idea first, but I'm not sure whether I trust HF more to follow through compared to Palmar, especially if HF starts coming up with more cases. Might be the case that they deviate at the last minute and cause a bunch of chaos. In that sense, I like Palmar for mayor because he's colder.
I've got a decent town read on HF and we're not policy lynching Sent
So you want HF to shank Palmar? So far that is his only plan on what to do as mayor...
On March 04 2019 18:24 Acrofales wrote: Regarding iamp and my history. I guess I'm misremembering things. Could've sworn we played a game together where I was town and he just what on me all D1 until he came down and we win. Turns out we never played a town game together. The only game in the database that seems even remotely similar is DotA mafia, but maybe I was just oversensitive to shade being thrown at me as a survivor?
Chrono Trigger doesn't count. Was our first game together, and I still think it is the best game I ever played. I was given a 3rd party town aligned role and had to deal with a fake cop check all game long. Claim my entire role despite it being very much against my win on to do so and still won. Anyway, I got read as town by the entire town on D1, including Iamp.
DotA mafia I was a survivor, but mostly just played along with town. Iamp as a townie threw shade my way all through D1, although he did eventually calm down and waffled on my alignment a bit. https://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/514644-dota-2-mafia
This doesn't change that he's wrong now as I'm neither scum not third party this game. I'm a townie townie.
Can you actually respond to what he’s said about you other than saying that he’s right and you are wrong?
On March 05 2019 02:25 Tictock wrote: Sorry guys, haven’t had any time. Went out for drinks with a girl I work with last night and am working up to deadline today.
My plan to sheep Rsoul is bunk kus she isn’t voting.
So I think I am leaving my mayor vote with Palmar kus supposedly he and HF have the same goal and I have no confidence in HF being town yet, plus my other issues with him.
Will consolidate on Acro as he seemed like a decent Lynch from what I have read.
Boy, are you gonna be sad when I flip green.
Although this post is superduper scummy, so maybe you'll be high fiving your buddies.
On March 05 2019 02:37 Oatsmaster wrote: Ehh I’m not gonna respond to acros case because it’s not gonna convince anyone who’s currently voting me
You could try to actually play the game, instead of not giving a shit?
For the purposes of this conversation, I’m gonna assume that you are town because otherwise this doesn’t work.
What do you want to see that would convince you that I’m not mafia? I’m not gonna change my style of play and it’s just your opinion that I’m playing the game the “wrong way” when one of my scumreads is the leading lynch yeah?
I really think grack also has an amazing chance of being scum, also at some point of time I’m gonna look back at my mayor list thing and see who’s still mafia
Okay... why does grack look like scum to you? Because we literally cannot agree on a single thing here. As for "one of your scumreads being the leading lynch"... you had a 1 in 3 chance on that one, didn't you? But if you're town then:
1. Your leading scumread is town, and 2. Thinks you are scum.
On March 05 2019 03:00 Trfel wrote: Was making a list post but I don't like Fecalfeast, thoughts?
FecalFeast - Perfect example of being present and being suspicious of people while not actually pushing anything. This post in particular. But throughout his play, being suspicious of general thread suspects without actually showing investment in that, all he cares about doing is asking to be mayor despite his only mayoral vote being himself.
What is it with people reappearing in the thread after being absent for 24h or so and appearing completely clueless to anything that happened since their disappearance. There's no way trfel has read the thread. Surely this case was predetermined to be his reentry into the thread. Like.. WTF?
On March 04 2019 00:10 Vivax wrote: HF are you jealous of Palmar or something. Let him be the mayor, you should know yourself enough to know that you act upon the weirdest impulses at EoDs.
Not jealous, no. I see the same guy advocating the same lynch as me yet people jumping on his bandwagon and citing that the reason they're doing it is that they want sentinel mayor lynched like it's some revelation that only Palmar has brought to the thread. That's suspicious.
In the process of catching up now, Palmar's policy lynch on Sentinel was simply a lot more noticeable/forceful than yours.
Why isn’t Palmar, Blazinghand, Rels, onegu, pandain, darthFoley, etc on this list too? Are these that much different than straight policy lynches?
I think he asked this question to make Acro seem scummy for pushing low-content posters, and that conflicts with the way that Tubesock has been playing the game so far.
On March 03 2019 17:59 Tubesock wrote:
On March 03 2019 13:47 Tictock wrote: Ok, I came, I saw, I did some things. Seems like ppl are not around so gunna do other things. May check in once more before bed but I am pretty sure I am not going to fully read the stuff I missed.
I'd like someone who is wanting to lynch oats to convince me why he is scum.
Similarly as to why ppl are voting HF for mayor.
If deadline was right now/soon I would push for Meap or Grack to lynch.
You know HF was going to mayor lynch [UoN]Sentinel before it was cool right? So, the difference between HF and Palmar is HF has actually played so far and given plenty of opinions. And exactly like Chezinu said, latching onto this Sentinel policy is right up Palmars alley if both were scum. And absolutely worth it. Plus Palmar doesn’t have to do anything else, talk about skating by.
Vote HF for mayor for the Sentinel kill, ##VOTE: Palmarso he actually plays. Town win wins.
On March 04 2019 01:07 Tubesock wrote: I’m voting Trfl. Maybe he will come play.
If Tubesock is town I don't see why he should be questioning Acro's lynch choices considering his own so far.
Multiple people, myself included, have called acro out on going for low-content posters and your case hinges upon it. Does that affect your read at all?
Nobody else that I recall was attacking Acro for going after low content posters while only pushing people for not posting, and also I dislike the post because I think it's an accusation disguised as a question rather than other people who have just called Acro shit.
Though my process for choosing which filters to read came from which filters I felt were mid-sized and blendy, and I'm probably coming to yours pretty soon too to be honest.
On March 04 2019 05:52 Grackaroni wrote: Also I think Tumblewood is mafia.
It's hard for me to explain but when he plays as town he has controversial opinions and he almost always sticks his foot in his mouth. I know some people like him for his aggressive early post against MZ but I remember when I played mafia with him he entered the thread in the same way, and it gave me bad vibes that he didn't have any posts early on that weren't serious like that.
After your response, I am going to unleash analysis based on your response... so type your words wisely.. or speech to text your words wisely if that's how you rolls... or role...
Brown Chez, always brown.
A wise choice. Well you see. I didn't quite like your coloring skills earlier. You paint my greens and blues red!!!
If you said I was red, then you would explain your coloring skills to assume I'm wrong on my reads.. If you went green, then you would insult my own coloring skills. With brown, you have passed.
Ahh Chez, I may not be as active as I once was but I learned many years ago not to paint you red or green. You are brown and embody it every game. I'm saddened to know that we disagree on the colors of others though. I feel comfortable with some of what I've colored but others I am not so sure of. Who in particular do you you think I've gotten wrong so far?
The iamp and HF. Thought you were dissing me
It's gonna be hard to get me to budge on iamp, his level of effort while still being semi active in the thread just smells like someone who is trying to active lurk his way into escaping attention. He's a solid red for me right now.
I have HF as green, mostly because I thought the way he came after me during the whole conversion discussion was from a townie mindset. And he brought up some good points about Oats which I hadn't fully considered until he mentioned it. Do you color him red?
Not as strongly as I was earlier, I just finished reading everyone's filter which took me a solid 6ish hours so I'm going to take a quick break and clear my head. In the mean time y'all can feel free to check out my notes I created. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JaeEcpko74-Vdm8iN3r1TWsKBW8HITOXUhutGH3bSY8/edit?usp=sharing How you interpret the information there is up to you but I'm just giving out the raw data. Later tonight I'll compile some thoughts based off of that but I'm kinda burnt out now
The one thing I know for sure is that I need someone to vigi the shit out of Blazinghand and possibly Pandain as well.
TW TS Rayn - I changed my mind about Rayn. He had good presence at the start of the game but I don't like what he's been pushing recently and HF legitimately has a good point when he says that Rayn has been talking through people. BH - for not playing but avoiding doing anything too attention grabby so far like random lynch.
If you only read the first page of Grack's filter it's pretty easy to come away thinking he's shit scum not trying to understand the game. But the second page is full of stuff like this. He's showing he's thinking along with the game and reading. He then stopped again, and intermittent behaviour when starting to come under suspicion into lurking under the radar is pretty scummy, but there are better targets.
That said, Oats making an actual case against Grack instead of telling me to fuck off was unexpected. I need people who have played with Oats more to coach me here, as I really don't want to dig into his meta, but does a scum Oats listen to his strongest scumread? Or does he just tell him to go fuck himself? I really like the very short little interaction Oats and I had.
On March 04 2019 11:15 Blazinghand wrote: TBH I think it would be reasonable to spend the lynch or the free mayor lynch on me today. I don't mind being knocked out early, and it would give other players a chance to play longer and have more fun. Same with eating a vigi bullet if needed
I would be fine with killing blazinghand today. He asked us to lynch him might as well make me happy. Plus the second sentence feels fake to me. Like no way he actually believes that if he were town.
On March 05 2019 04:08 Holyflare wrote: Let's start this blazinghand shitfest shall we? What better way to start off the end of the world than lynch the tyrant himself!
I don't think I have ever heard a better reason to lynch someone.
Hey Holyflare, is your mayorial shank still aimed straight at Palmar's heart? If so, this mayor train that's forming up on you is pretty damn troubling.
On March 05 2019 04:23 Pandain wrote: I haven't read the last thirty or so pages and I won't have time.
Thoughts were that fecalfeast seemed clearly reading and active in the thread but completely contentless. I don't think we should be looking to lynch someone extremely active as well.
I had a spreadsheet I was working on, I'll post my more important notes from there.
On March 05 2019 04:15 Pandain wrote: ##mayor: holyflare ##vote: fecalfeast
In fact, both our mayors are a bit troublesome. Although the longer Sentinel is useless the better I feel if Palmar still wants to shank him. I'm not feeling the conversion train though.
On March 03 2019 11:01 Conversion wrote: I’m going to bed, but @MrWiggles telling me I didn’t do fuck all but stray away my point on MZ.. what?
I was literally advocating going away from the point until Vivax kept pushing for answers? Are you on drugs?
I just read Conversion's filter and it's like 90% about MeapZ. He even claims he wants to "go away from that point" yet continues to harp on it afterwards. I've been waiting for him to say something about ANYONE else in the game and the only other name he's thought of mentioning is Oats
On March 04 2019 08:13 Conversion wrote: I’m back sort of. I have interviews all week so wont play much today.
did MZ ever explain his reasoning on why he put Oats low on his scum list for scumreading me, the same as him, but excluded me from his to lynch list? also why he agreed with Oats making a large post of bullshit voted and saying “not town?”
if not I’d like to lynch him
On March 04 2019 23:31 Conversion wrote: re: MZ
On March 03 2019 23:54 Conversion wrote:
On March 03 2019 07:27 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On March 03 2019 07:24 Holyflare wrote: [quote]
Yet oats doesn't feature in your 3 want to lynches?
I mean I wouldn't be upset with an oats lynch but I think that Grack or iamp are better choices. Plus he has conversion as scum which I agree with so that pushes him down my priority list.
what the fuck is this post? if you agree with someone that I am scum, why am I not in your lynch list and why aren’t you pushing for it?
On March 03 2019 23:59 Conversion wrote:
On March 03 2019 23:54 Conversion wrote:
On March 03 2019 07:27 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: [quote] I mean I wouldn't be upset with an oats lynch but I think that Grack or iamp are better choices. Plus he has conversion as scum which I agree with so that pushes him down my priority list.
what the fuck is this post? if you agree with someone that I am scum, why am I not in your lynch list and why aren’t you pushing for it?
also you found that Oats was good to agree with because he put one post with a bunch of votes that included me and said “not town?”
dude doesn't want to lynch oats because oats scumreads me like he (MZ) does, but doesn't push it any further. has 1 scum read that he doesn't pursue very hard, and then makes a giant fucking google docs post just tracking reads and painting it green/red
also oats reason for scumreading me was a giant fucking useless post of quoting a bunch of votes and going "not town" and he refuses to acknowledge that it's a pretty dumb reason to agree that someone is sharing your scumread based on that
I think you just described your filter.
On March 04 2019 23:39 Conversion wrote: I just read MZ's reply to me and 50% of him is just ad hominem about how I can't read or how I'm dumb
fun stuff and this is the shit you guys want me to catch up on lmao
On March 04 2019 23:55 Conversion wrote: also rereading MZ's "defense" against me he still doesn't explain why oats throwing shit against a wall is enough justification for him to drop him in his lynch list, instead of going like "the fuck is this shit you're throwing against a wall?" but whatever
I'd be down for a Conversion lynch. His filter is a vast expanse of vagueness outside of MZ. His read hasn't developed or changed. He hasn't even seemed interested in pursuing any other leads.
this is such a garbage post that did nothing but parrot Vivax, Palmar, and MZ
are you serious?
Yea, I’m serious. I post things as I catch up, not my fault other people see the same thing I do. How about you stop calling other people garbage and do something useful? You love to complain yet do fuck all to actually progress the game.
You scumread MZ for having the same filter as you, which is at best hypocritical and at worst fishing for low hanging fruit as scum. If you’re Town please do anything else
aww is poor little darthfoley mad?
how about you actually catch up on the game instead of making shitty posts like this and being underwhelming?
Nah you’re just annoying as fuck. I have skimmed the last 5-8 pages on my break, but I’ll look at your Tubestock stuff when I get home from work.
and you're annoying as fuck too. don't bother talking to me if you're going to act like a little bitch for shit you've called me out in the past. thanks
Damn. I thought I got the image right. Screw phoneposting memes. Must not allow deep linking images or something. Here. Different source, and none of the light-hearted de-escalation I was going for.
On March 05 2019 04:45 Mr. Wiggles wrote: What's with the BH train? If you want to kill a hardcore lurker like that why not use the mayor lynch? I don't see the benefit
Because BH is not your typical lurker. IMHO it's like foolishness or sandroba lurking. They hate playing scum, so just don't.
On March 05 2019 04:48 Trfel wrote: Voting Palmar for mayor because of all of the mayors' targets I want to see [UoN]Sentinel lynched most. Him having a townread on himself while claiming to have not read his role PM is super suspicious, moreso the more I think about it. Other than his huge list post he hasn't shown much thought at all, he's been just following the thread sentiment. His overall play makes his effort seem fabricated. A few reasons being quoting my reasoning in one area while highly scumreading me in another, and more importantly not seeming at all invested in his reads. If he put all that effort into reading and making his scumreads, he wouldn't not actually push those reads and follow the thread sentiment like a headless chicken. It feels forced, and like he's trying to use the effort to prove he's town.
##Mayor Palmar
Catching up but nearly everything in this post is either wrong or disingenuous
BH isn't in this game and unless this is some sort of last minute ploy to get him to come out, seeing as we've got 4 hours to deadline I don't approve of wasting a vote on a player who isn't even around to defend himself
Turns out he was here all along, lurking until his train took out from the station. If he flips scum, I'm looking at you next.
On March 05 2019 04:45 Mr. Wiggles wrote: What's with the BH train? If you want to kill a hardcore lurker like that why not use the mayor lynch? I don't see the benefit
Because BH is not your typical lurker. IMHO it's like foolishness or sandroba lurking. They hate playing scum, so just don't.
Even assuming this is true the only way this makes sense is if we have absolutely no other candidates to lynch. BH has barely defended himself and he's barely posted in the thread which means we barely get any information when we learn his role except maybe who sheeped his vote.
I'd rather lynch scum than "information". God, you're really trying to dig yourself into this hole, aren't you? :O
On March 05 2019 04:45 Mr. Wiggles wrote: What's with the BH train? If you want to kill a hardcore lurker like that why not use the mayor lynch? I don't see the benefit
Because BH is not your typical lurker. IMHO it's like foolishness or sandroba lurking. They hate playing scum, so just don't.
Even assuming this is true the only way this makes sense is if we have absolutely no other candidates to lynch. BH has barely defended himself and he's barely posted in the thread which means we barely get any information when we learn his role except maybe who sheeped his vote.
I'd rather lynch scum than "information". God, you're really trying to dig yourself into this hole, aren't you? :O
No, you'd rather pick an easy lynch based off activity rather than trying to figure out who all the scum are.
On March 05 2019 04:45 Mr. Wiggles wrote: What's with the BH train? If you want to kill a hardcore lurker like that why not use the mayor lynch? I don't see the benefit
Because BH is not your typical lurker. IMHO it's like foolishness or sandroba lurking. They hate playing scum, so just don't.
Even assuming this is true the only way this makes sense is if we have absolutely no other candidates to lynch. BH has barely defended himself and he's barely posted in the thread which means we barely get any information when we learn his role except maybe who sheeped his vote.
I'd rather lynch scum than "information". God, you're really trying to dig yourself into this hole, aren't you? :O
No, you'd rather pick an easy lynch based off activity rather than trying to figure out who all the scum are.
Lol. Hi pot.
Here are my scumreads rn
LS Damdred Tictock Trfel
I'm fine with lynching any of the four and I want whoever I do lynch to say as much as they can before they die so that maybe I can learn something useful
LS martyred and gave up. Damdred is lurking somewhere, but I'm trusting ppl who know him better than me to make sense of his uselessness. But he's a lurker. Ticktock didn't seem scummy except for that really bad reentry and fuck off today. But he already said he won't be back before the deadline so if your aim is to have a discussion, maybe read the thread?
So the only real "scum read" that follows your own rules is trfel. Great. I actually agree he is scummy as crap. But he actually looks like he's playing, rather than telling us to lynch him. Sure, we could vig BH. Or, being a high profile target who is martyring himself because he can't be bothered to read the thread, we could lynch him dead. And if he flips scum,
On March 05 2019 05:06 iamperfection wrote: Bh is unacceptable and he has had plenty of time to do something productive he is scum
Well, my lack of activity being unacceptable? absolutely.
If you think that "BH is inactive when he is scum" is even close to a correct heuristic you must have never played with me, or seen or hosted or observed any game I'm in. Come on, dude, you know that isn't true. Be a man and vote me on policy. Don't make false statements about my meta.
I don't give a shit about your meta.
You somehow mayor vote palmar when you haven't read at all he didn't play untill page 40
It's a policy vote and you know it. Admit it. Be a man.
I looked in the vote thread and saw someone had voted for him for mayor, and Palmar's a decent player, so I voted for him too. I figured it would be productive.
I don't even know why i'm arguing, I'm fine dying. I just hate people saying wrong things
Why are you complaining about policy votes when your first pick for mayor has been a guy who's exclusively promised a policy vote
On March 05 2019 05:06 iamperfection wrote: Bh is unacceptable and he has had plenty of time to do something productive he is scum
Well, my lack of activity being unacceptable? absolutely.
If you think that "BH is inactive when he is scum" is even close to a correct heuristic you must have never played with me, or seen or hosted or observed any game I'm in. Come on, dude, you know that isn't true. Be a man and vote me on policy. Don't make false statements about my meta.
I don't give a shit about your meta.
You somehow mayor vote palmar when you haven't read at all he didn't play untill page 40
It's a policy vote and you know it. Admit it. Be a man.
I looked in the vote thread and saw someone had voted for him for mayor, and Palmar's a decent player, so I voted for him too. I figured it would be productive.
I don't even know why i'm arguing, I'm fine dying. I just hate people saying wrong things
Why are you complaining about policy votes when your first pick for mayor has been a guy who's exclusively promised a policy vote
Why are you misrepresenting Palmar?
At what point in time did Palmar change his opinion
Wait is Palmar promising something other than "I'll lynch a lurker"?
Yes. He's promising to lynch sentinel for not reading his role pm.
On March 05 2019 05:06 iamperfection wrote: Bh is unacceptable and he has had plenty of time to do something productive he is scum
Well, my lack of activity being unacceptable? absolutely.
If you think that "BH is inactive when he is scum" is even close to a correct heuristic you must have never played with me, or seen or hosted or observed any game I'm in. Come on, dude, you know that isn't true. Be a man and vote me on policy. Don't make false statements about my meta.
I don't give a shit about your meta.
You somehow mayor vote palmar when you haven't read at all he didn't play untill page 40
It's a policy vote and you know it. Admit it. Be a man.
I looked in the vote thread and saw someone had voted for him for mayor, and Palmar's a decent player, so I voted for him too. I figured it would be productive.
I don't even know why i'm arguing, I'm fine dying. I just hate people saying wrong things
Why are you complaining about policy votes when your first pick for mayor has been a guy who's exclusively promised a policy vote
Why are you misrepresenting Palmar?
At what point in time did Palmar change his opinion
He didn't as far as I know. But it's by no means the only thing he has done. And there is a real chance that he'll kill one of his scumreads over his policy. Conversion is up high on his list.
On March 05 2019 05:06 iamperfection wrote: Bh is unacceptable and he has had plenty of time to do something productive he is scum
Well, my lack of activity being unacceptable? absolutely.
If you think that "BH is inactive when he is scum" is even close to a correct heuristic you must have never played with me, or seen or hosted or observed any game I'm in. Come on, dude, you know that isn't true. Be a man and vote me on policy. Don't make false statements about my meta.
I don't give a shit about your meta.
You somehow mayor vote palmar when you haven't read at all he didn't play untill page 40
It's a policy vote and you know it. Admit it. Be a man.
I looked in the vote thread and saw someone had voted for him for mayor, and Palmar's a decent player, so I voted for him too. I figured it would be productive.
I don't even know why i'm arguing, I'm fine dying. I just hate people saying wrong things
Why are you complaining about policy votes when your first pick for mayor has been a guy who's exclusively promised a policy vote
Why are you misrepresenting Palmar?
At what point in time did Palmar change his opinion
Wait is Palmar promising something other than "I'll lynch a lurker"?
Yes. He's promising to lynch sentinel for not reading his role pm.
Hmm, that's fairly reasonable as these things go, but is anyone with any shot at the things running on a "lynch the least active player" type platform? I'd much prefer to vote for a mayor who is doing that.
If the top of my head that would kill onegu. But maybe there's someone I have forgotten about entirely. Onegu is on track for getting himself modkilled though.
On March 05 2019 05:11 iamperfection wrote: [quote] I don't give a shit about your meta.
You somehow mayor vote palmar when you haven't read at all he didn't play untill page 40
It's a policy vote and you know it. Admit it. Be a man.
I looked in the vote thread and saw someone had voted for him for mayor, and Palmar's a decent player, so I voted for him too. I figured it would be productive.
I don't even know why i'm arguing, I'm fine dying. I just hate people saying wrong things
Why are you complaining about policy votes when your first pick for mayor has been a guy who's exclusively promised a policy vote
Why are you misrepresenting Palmar?
At what point in time did Palmar change his opinion
Wait is Palmar promising something other than "I'll lynch a lurker"?
Yes. He's promising to lynch sentinel for not reading his role pm.
Hmm, that's fairly reasonable as these things go, but is anyone with any shot at the things running on a "lynch the least active player" type platform? I'd much prefer to vote for a mayor who is doing that.
If the top of my head that would kill onegu. But maybe there's someone I have forgotten about entirely. Onegu is on track for getting himself modkilled though.
Hmm, if he's actually going to get modkilled, maybe that's actually fine and we can use the mayor lynch on someone else. I recall some pregame talk about not using modkills and instead giving town more ways to clear out inactive players, did anything pan out from that?
On March 05 2019 05:29 Koshi wrote: rsoultin called me town even though I want to lynch her and was only here for the last x hours where x is not higher than 10 in a 72 hour day 1.
PS. I am bothered so many people just let me be here without more pressure. I was thinking in the car that this would be a great mafia koshi stategy.
What? She's been here a heck of a lot more than I have.
On March 05 2019 05:29 Koshi wrote: rsoultin called me town even though I want to lynch her and was only here for the last x hours where x is not higher than 10 in a 72 hour day 1.
PS. I am bothered so many people just let me be here without more pressure. I was thinking in the car that this would be a great mafia koshi stategy.
I let you be because you said pre-game you'd be afk all weekend. So what's the point pressuring you? Weekend ended and you have been active and townie. Seems fine to me.
On March 05 2019 05:29 Koshi wrote: rsoultin called me town even though I want to lynch her and was only here for the last x hours where x is not higher than 10 in a 72 hour day 1.
PS. I am bothered so many people just let me be here without more pressure. I was thinking in the car that this would be a great mafia koshi stategy.
What? She's been here a heck of a lot more than I have.
What did you read because it is not something I typed.
You said she had only been here for the last x hours, with x < 10.
I read posts by her on Saturday and Sunday. She's been here. She was here this morning, then was away for most of the afternoon and is back now. I have no problems with rsoultin's activity. Neither in quantity nor in how it is spread about the day. There's some red flags I have in her filter, but nothing serious.
On March 05 2019 05:29 Koshi wrote: rsoultin called me town even though I want to lynch her and was only here for the last x hours where x is not higher than 10 in a 72 hour day 1.
PS. I am bothered so many people just let me be here without more pressure. I was thinking in the car that this would be a great mafia koshi stategy.
I let you be because you said pre-game you'd be afk all weekend. So what's the point pressuring you? Weekend ended and you have been active and townie. Seems fine to me.
I never said such thing. Stop doing drugs. I never knew this game would start on a Saturday on 1am. O thought is was Monday 1 am.
Oh. Hmmm. Who the fuck said that then :o maybe they never showed up :/
On March 05 2019 05:29 Koshi wrote: rsoultin called me town even though I want to lynch her and was only here for the last x hours where x is not higher than 10 in a 72 hour day 1.
PS. I am bothered so many people just let me be here without more pressure. I was thinking in the car that this would be a great mafia koshi stategy.
I let you be because you said pre-game you'd be afk all weekend. So what's the point pressuring you? Weekend ended and you have been active and townie. Seems fine to me.
I never said such thing. Stop doing drugs. I never knew this game would start on a Saturday on 1am. O thought is was Monday 1 am.
Oh. Hmmm. Who the fuck said that then :o maybe they never showed up :/
Was mocsta. He did show up did nothing and fucked off again. Not a great look. Including his feigning being insulted by Palmar.
Okay. Filtered mocsta. He doesn't look as bad as I thought he did at all. But the exchange with Palmar definitely was mocsta overreacting. I didn't read that as Palmar shutting him down. I read it as mocsta overreacting to Palmar poking him a bit for some reads/reaction. They could easily both be town from that exchange.
Started reading palmar's filter again. There's no way he's scum.
I was around all day today and he was pushing the conversation, actively reading and analysing people. I went into the filter particularly wanting to read him as scum, because I read him as town all day. I couldn't keep it up. By the end of page 3 it was all townie to me again.
I don't agree with him on sentinel, but fuck no, we're not killing him.
On March 05 2019 03:24 Conversion wrote: do people actually like Tube's filter or is it that there are worse filters out there than his? I can't seem to grab any sort of stance from his filter at all and lots of soft questioning that lead nowhere
Tubesock? That's actually not the way I read his filter at all.
To me he feels actually invested in his reads. He's suspicious of me for one, and he's actually asking people about that and looking for support. Sure, he's asking a lot of questions, but at least in my opinion he actually does have a direction.
On March 05 2019 03:45 Acrofales wrote: If you only read the first page of Grack's filter it's pretty easy to come away thinking he's shit scum not trying to understand the game. But the second page is full of stuff like this. He's showing he's thinking along with the game and reading. He then stopped again, and intermittent behaviour when starting to come under suspicion into lurking under the radar is pretty scummy, but there are better targets.
I don't really understand the suspicion of him. I forget what Vivax said about him exactly but I don't think it was anywhere near as convincing as Vivax did. I see Conversion contributing original content and being willing to be in the center of everything, both of which usually come from town.
Same as Conversion really. There are some suspicious things but overall he's willing to be the focus of attention and he is sharing original thoughts, which makes me think he's town.
Lack of time to understand why people are suspicious of him, unless someone wants to point me to a summary? But I doubt I want to lynch him today, his recent activity has seemed very good to me.
His play still feels like mafia to me but I also think he'd be more invested as mafia in particular, I'd like to wait to see him get more involved before making a decision.
Perfect example of being present and being suspicious of people while not actually pushing anything. This post in particular. But throughout his play, being suspicious of general thread suspects without actually showing investment in that, all he cares about doing is asking to be mayor despite his only mayoral vote being himself.
On March 05 2019 04:48 Trfel wrote: Voting Palmar for mayor because of all of the mayors' targets I want to see [UoN]Sentinel lynched most. Him having a townread on himself while claiming to have not read his role PM is super suspicious, moreso the more I think about it. Other than his huge list post he hasn't shown much thought at all, he's been just following the thread sentiment. His overall play makes his effort seem fabricated. A few reasons being quoting my reasoning in one area while highly scumreading me in another, and more importantly not seeming at all invested in his reads. If he put all that effort into reading and making his scumreads, he wouldn't not actually push those reads and follow the thread sentiment like a headless chicken. It feels forced, and like he's trying to use the effort to prove he's town.
Actually could you walk me through your sent read? If he hasn’t read his role pm, I assume that it makes sense he thinks he’s town because that’s both statistically likely and beneficial no matter what alignment he actually is.
Yeah I thought about that, but then I realized that the exact same thing would be true for literally everyone else. So why didn't he put everyone at town, but just himself?
If I were going to make a list post and put myself on it, if I were town I could just put myself as town and not think about it. But if I hadn't read my role PM I'd pause, because I wouldn't know. But if I were mafia pretending I hadn't read my role PM, it's quite likely I wouldn't think about it and would forget. Basically I think it makes it more likely that he did in fact read his role PM, and since there's no reason to pretend like he didn't if he was town, that makes me think he's much more likely mafia.
I actually like this post. I also thought it was weird that sentinel put himself down as town, but didn't think it could be because he had read his PM, and was scum, and this is a fairly bizar scumslip.
Other than that, trfel's filter is still really bad, without any evidence he's trying to play the game. And now is wining about dying, which is not indicative of alignment. Will read sentinel again now.
Holyflare killing Palmar is a total cop-out. Are we just apathetically coasting our way to killing one of the strongest town assets? It's D.U.M.B. Stop doing it.
On March 05 2019 08:53 Acrofales wrote: Holyflare killing Palmar is a total cop-out. Are we just apathetically coasting our way to killing one of the strongest town assets? It's D.U.M.B. Stop doing it.
On March 05 2019 08:32 Trfel wrote: STILL NO ONE HAS SAID A SINGLE THING TO ME
NOT ONE EXPLANATION OF WHY I AM MAFIA NOT ONE QUESTION NOTHING
Do you realize what is happening? If I'm lynched, fine, whatever, but someone acknowledge my existence please!
I think you are mafia and I told you why.
Disconnect in every other post you made. That is enough.
Show me the disconnects, that's simply not true. I already explained the two disconnects that exist. If you show me more I can explain them too, nothing even has merit except for those two.
@Holyflare, I'd take another look at Fecalfeast and Mocsta. Mocsta's play felt honest and genuine to me, admittedly he hasn't done much but I don't think that's mafia indicative. I know that Fecalfeast enjoys playing scum (heck he has one of the highest mafia winrates on the site) and he's relaxed and carefree as mafia, IIRC he's more relaxed and carefree and fun-loving as mafia than town. As mafia he plays to exist and survive, not to push stuff, and that's exactly what he is doing here. Otherwise, just please don't start a big fight between you and raynnpelikoneet or anyone else that causes massive tunnels.
Can you explain the mocsta progression on Palmar then? How can he go from so rage-y and agreeing with my posts against Palmar to suddenly voting Conversion with palmar and agreeing like nothing had happened?
Huh. To be honest I couldn't tell you. I guess never mind me then, I'm still not really convinced he's mafia but I couldn't (and wouldn't) stop anyone who said otherwise.
You and Exo
You guys need to explain your scumread on me
But I don't have a scumread on you?
I'm just trusting Holyflare. The whole saving me thing and all.
You apparently get a lease on life. That doesn't mean you should stop using your brain. This post succccckkks.
On March 05 2019 10:08 Holyflare wrote: It's been too long and you haven't witnessed the new only plays on phone and has to work all the time Holyflare. I'm not very good anymore but my ego hasn't deflated to match.
It should have. You're either an idiot or scum. Just shut up and go sit in a corner the rest of the game. You're bad. I wish I could just shoot you tonight and not have to worry about you the rest of the game.
On March 05 2019 10:09 Acrofales wrote: Man. This is gonna be a boring few days. We lynch sentinel and wiggles. After that we need to switch our brains back on.
We kill HolyFlare.
Unfortunately no. We don't. Sentinel and Wiggles were exactly as bad, and were also high priority scumreads from the dead town Palmar.
On March 05 2019 10:08 Holyflare wrote: It's been too long and you haven't witnessed the new only plays on phone and has to work all the time Holyflare. I'm not very good anymore but my ego hasn't deflated to match.
It should have. You're either an idiot or scum. Just shut up and go sit in a corner the rest of the game. You're bad. I wish I could just shoot you tonight and not have to worry about you the rest of the game.
I mean if I'm mafia then I won the mayor vote while on holiday and phone posting the entire time and eliminated the person posting a lot of posts.
But you're insinuating pretty hard that I'm BAD rather than mafia. If I'm mafia I'm awesome, amazing, incredible. I think you're displaying a bit too much TMI here Acro.
Holy shit, if you're town you are actually terrible at this game. Like truly mindblowingly awful. I pray for the life of me you're scum, because if you're town I haven't seen someone this dumb since kushm4sta.
On March 05 2019 10:26 Holyflare wrote: I mean, you can all criticise all you want but not one of you even argued with my scum read (no, yelling it's stupid doesn't count) on Palmar or the points I laid out
Yes I did. And no, I have no idea who you are or that you're good at playing as mafia. But thanks for pointing it out. Comforts me that you're some kinda scum Mastermind duping sheep rather than a complete herpaderp. Being scum ends when the game ends. Being an idiot doesn't.
On March 05 2019 08:14 Acrofales wrote: Started reading palmar's filter again. There's no way he's scum.
I was around all day today and he was pushing the conversation, actively reading and analysing people. I went into the filter particularly wanting to read him as scum, because I read him as town all day. I couldn't keep it up. By the end of page 3 it was all townie to me again.
I don't agree with him on sentinel, but fuck no, we're not killing him.
On March 05 2019 08:53 Acrofales wrote: Holyflare killing Palmar is a total cop-out. Are we just apathetically coasting our way to killing one of the strongest town assets? It's D.U.M.B. Stop doing it.
On March 05 2019 15:51 AMG wrote: 151 pages... you cannot be serious!
I started playing here nearly a decade ago under the name Adam4167, some of you ive played with, most of the rest Ive spectated games you were in.
Now, if someone could tell me on a scale of 1 to 10 the level of shit ive waded into, 1 being my socks would get wet and 10 being if i open my mouth I die of E.coli?
On March 05 2019 15:30 raynpelikoneet wrote: Who was the guy who was super interested in Jockmcplop's mafia terminology?
Acro asked Jock three times if this was his first mafia game, looking at his filter.
Sounds like throwing a bone of shade like "someone please pick up on this and be suspicious of him". Why the fuck would Jock start the game by going to scum QT with "hi team, first tell me mafia terminology so i can make posts"???
He wouldn't. But he might be getting coached simply by scum bandying words around. But he just knew way more than he could get from coaching and his explanation was fine, as you might have noticed as I dropped it after he explained.
Now go die, scum.
Team scum: Wiggles (Palmar case + votes) Sentinel (Palmar case + trfel case + votes) Holyflare (not dumb enough to kill Palmar as town)
Pretty sure: Rayn (did nothing all day. Town rayn would be telling people how dumb they are and be raging at HF. Instead, he is here to tell me I'm scum for thinking Palmar is town. Wtf? Nice omgus)
Probably: MZ (did nothing all day, but was instantly around after flip) Damdred (same) BC (sheeping Palmar) Marv (last minute vote switch)
Maybe: Fecalfeast (trfel thought he was scum) BH (martyring :/ )
On March 05 2019 16:50 AMG wrote: Rayn, is there any players in particular you'd like my thoughts on? Im only on page 19 so far, but I can give someone a filter dive and let you know if anything jumps out at me, otherwise I can just store my thoughts until I catch up eventually and post everything then.
Why are you asking scum what to do? Just because he's active?
Go read HF's filter. That's probably the most important thing to understand.
On March 05 2019 16:50 AMG wrote: Rayn, is there any players in particular you'd like my thoughts on? Im only on page 19 so far, but I can give someone a filter dive and let you know if anything jumps out at me, otherwise I can just store my thoughts until I catch up eventually and post everything then.
Any of these: Mr. Wiggles, BloodyC0bbler, tubesock, AMG, darthfoley, Grackaroni, Onegu, Fecalfeast, Damdred.
ROFL. You're not even trying. Those are the least relevant players in the game. Onegu wasn't even playing, and you.just told AMG to read himself.
On March 05 2019 16:18 raynpelikoneet wrote: Whoever said Acrofales was trying to do something during EoD is completely wrong, he was never doing anything, that was just headless running from one place to another with no fucking direction.
He might be mafia, he kinda strongly said conversion was mafia right after the flip but then didn’t reference me at all once I’d started posting, thought it was a bit weird
What's there to reference. You're going to be Marv. You have a ton of real reads pent up from your observer time, and they are going to peter out fast when as scum you have to keep up with the thread. It was also 1:30 AM and I wanted to go to bed. Despite being really really angry.
I couldn't ask you why conversion did what he did. Which was the only relevant thing right then that I wanted to know from you.
Also, I realized we got bigger fish to fry than you. Sentinel, Wiggles and HF are far more important.
On March 05 2019 15:30 raynpelikoneet wrote: Who was the guy who was super interested in Jockmcplop's mafia terminology?
Acro asked Jock three times if this was his first mafia game, looking at his filter.
Sounds like throwing a bone of shade like "someone please pick up on this and be suspicious of him". Why the fuck would Jock start the game by going to scum QT with "hi team, first tell me mafia terminology so i can make posts"???
He wouldn't. But he might be getting coached simply by scum bandying words around. But he just knew way more than he could get from coaching and his explanation was fine, as you might have noticed as I dropped it after he explained.
Now go die, scum.
Team scum: Wiggles (Palmar case + votes) Sentinel (Palmar case + trfel case + votes) Holyflare (not dumb enough to kill Palmar as town)
Pretty sure: Rayn (did nothing all day. Town rayn would be telling people how dumb they are and be raging at HF. Instead, he is here to tell me I'm scum for thinking Palmar is town. Wtf? Nice omgus)
Probably: MZ (did nothing all day, but was instantly around after flip) Damdred (same) BC (sheeping Palmar) Marv (last minute vote switch)
Maybe: Fecalfeast (trfel thought he was scum) BH (martyring :/ )
100% absent and useless: Onegu Rels
-squints at-
this seems like a very 'other people said' sort of list to me which is less true taken as a whole and more true if you look at the top scumspects
lots of sheeples and shallow
also i find it curious that you just tack on oneg and rels at the end when i'm fairly sure they're not the only ones in that category and they're ones i have actual reasons to scumread. worth noting if you ever flip scum
Name one other person with a 1-page filter that wasn't replaced.
And if he is, I think his calmer analysis of conversion might make sense. I did like how Marv immediately entered the thread as if he was excited to play. As scum there'd be no urgency and he'd slum it with his homies in the QT, acting as if he wasn't around before being forced to make an appearance here today. His mere presence makes him more townie.
Also, @rsoul: sheeping Palmar to victory is a fantastic strategy that I'll happily follow.
On March 05 2019 15:30 raynpelikoneet wrote: Who was the guy who was super interested in Jockmcplop's mafia terminology?
Acro asked Jock three times if this was his first mafia game, looking at his filter.
Sounds like throwing a bone of shade like "someone please pick up on this and be suspicious of him". Why the fuck would Jock start the game by going to scum QT with "hi team, first tell me mafia terminology so i can make posts"???
He wouldn't. But he might be getting coached simply by scum bandying words around. But he just knew way more than he could get from coaching and his explanation was fine, as you might have noticed as I dropped it after he explained.
Now go die, scum.
Team scum: Wiggles (Palmar case + votes) Sentinel (Palmar case + trfel case + votes) Holyflare (not dumb enough to kill Palmar as town)
Pretty sure: Rayn (did nothing all day. Town rayn would be telling people how dumb they are and be raging at HF. Instead, he is here to tell me I'm scum for thinking Palmar is town. Wtf? Nice omgus)
Probably: MZ (did nothing all day, but was instantly around after flip) Damdred (same) BC (sheeping Palmar) Marv (last minute vote switch)
Maybe: Fecalfeast (trfel thought he was scum) BH (martyring :/ )
100% absent and useless: Onegu Rels
-squints at-
this seems like a very 'other people said' sort of list to me which is less true taken as a whole and more true if you look at the top scumspects
lots of sheeples and shallow
also i find it curious that you just tack on oneg and rels at the end when i'm fairly sure they're not the only ones in that category and they're ones i have actual reasons to scumread. worth noting if you ever flip scum
Name one other person with a 1-page filter that wasn't replaced.
If they're not 1-page there are several who are damn close. Nice strawman.
No. That was literally my criteria for being 100% inactive.
But nobody else even comes close. Not even BC or darthfoley. Chezinu comes close in content, but not in volume.
On March 05 2019 18:18 Acrofales wrote: My maybe list above is bad.
BH is probably a VT.
And if he is, I think his calmer analysis of conversion might make sense. I did like how Marv immediately entered the thread as if he was excited to play. As scum there'd be no urgency and he'd slum it with his homies in the QT, acting as if he wasn't around before being forced to make an appearance here today. His mere presence makes him more townie.
Also, @rsoul: sheeping Palmar to victory is a fantastic strategy that I'll happily follow.
doesn't strike me as any less lazy just because palmar's name is shiny
Since when is lazy a bad thing if it catches scum?
On March 05 2019 18:18 Acrofales wrote: My maybe list above is bad.
BH is probably a VT.
And if he is, I think his calmer analysis of conversion might make sense. I did like how Marv immediately entered the thread as if he was excited to play. As scum there'd be no urgency and he'd slum it with his homies in the QT, acting as if he wasn't around before being forced to make an appearance here today. His mere presence makes him more townie.
Also, @rsoul: sheeping Palmar to victory is a fantastic strategy that I'll happily follow.
doesn't strike me as any less lazy just because palmar's name is shiny
On March 05 2019 18:29 rsoultin wrote: i'm done with you acro. go back to something interesting, if you can manage it. calling your maybes in your reads list bad was a good start
@jock uhhuh...yeah i don't get how you read this game and claim that hf didn't have a scumread on palmar that he made overwhelmingly clear multiple times including his intention to use the mayor lynch to vote him. if your uncommitted to any pov is your way of saying he's scum i guess that makes some sense but it's a lot of words just to nullread someone
At one point he said he wasn't going to lynch palmar and was just using the platform to find out who would go for it. The he said that was a lie. This is the post that is making me question his motives and how genuine his palmar read was.
Any town even half-reading the thread couldn't possibly have been confident in seeing Palmar as scum, and HF was absolutely paying attention to the thread, so there are two options:
1) He is absolutely terrible, but has an ego the size of a truck. We leave him alive and he repeats "leading" town to terrible reads and we lose.
On March 05 2019 10:03 Holyflare wrote: I ultimately ended up still lynching Palmar:
A) because my vote was locked in and I never really got to change it to BH when your slot and vivax saved him
B) I would much rather have fun with a lynch on a really polarising player to lynch instead of some shitty policy lynch anyway that may or may not have actually turned into a scum BH. We now have about 100 different reads on this lynch and we have the flip to boot. It wouldn't have been the same if Palmar didn't flip either.
I was tempted to vote some non-entity but that's really really fucking boring and wouldn't be fun.
I could see B as a valid reason here, but A is obviously bullshit, HF was in thread as it happened, watched it go down, commented on it, and still lynched Palmar.
that and i think the flip took 40 minutes
yep, I was refreshing furiously the whole time. it was a very close race so hosts wanted to be extremely sure. I'd have at least, in HF's shoes, tried sending a PM post-deadline to ask to swap over to Blazinghand as the lynch target, if A was the real reason
Also, he took the time to troll the thread. Does a town troll like this?
On March 05 2019 09:00 Holyflare wrote: lol I didn't kill palmar
This is just confusion and misinformation. There is no town reason to make this post.
On March 05 2019 17:01 raynpelikoneet wrote: No takers. Hi
Lamp's case gained plenty of traction. For a while I thought town might actually lynch me. Then they turned around and did something even dumber. But saying Lamp didn't get traction on his case is a pretty bad mischaracterization of what happened D1.
On March 05 2019 17:07 marvellosity wrote: What’s meapak not doing here that he normally would as town rayn?
First filter I looked at this game because it would be fun if I got to lynch him.
I ask for meta because ‘old hands not doing that much’ describes almost all of them
I don't know i genuinely have zero meta on Meapak that i remember.
Okay. The real reason I asked is cos I’d love it if sent were mafia and I didn’t want anything to dissuade that :p
Acro cases decent tbh
If you're town, read my filter instead of Lamp's cherry picked case. If you're scum then carry on throwing shade with rayn. You two being buddies is not passing my smell test.
On March 05 2019 21:28 marvellosity wrote: No time my ass
??? Why be like this ???
What? Hf said he had no time yesterday and he just made a big ass case, that’s all. Hakuna your tatas
roger
Kk night
Actually, he did bring up one interesting point. I hadn't even noticed I didn't appear (cntrl-f) in Sentinel's filter until his giant list post, which is after you "didn't like what I looked like". So how did you find me "through sentinel's filter"? Just run us through the events please, because the timeline doesn't make sense.
On March 05 2019 21:27 marvellosity wrote: That’s a decent case
Why?
Its taking worsw case explanation
A lot of this is easy to explain as a townie with no knowledge.
Hf does this every game we play when im town I simply am not wishy washy when scum.
Again.ignore the big letyers. What did u actually like about it?
I will admit you didn’t sound scummy to me from the few posts I’d read.
I did just check sentinel’s filter though and I’m struggling to see where you got anything about not liking acro from it
does it matter?
It was either in sentinel sicklucker or palmar. Thise were the first three i read.
I read sicklucker because j thought he was tubesock. I wanted to read tubesock cos last game i played with him he was a very well reasoned and rstiinal town viice that i thought woukd br an easy read.
Let's fact check. Remember you specifically said the words:
On March 02 2019 16:17 Acrofales wrote: I just started reading and 3 pages in stopped again. From this point onwards, I will be operating on a lynch all liars policy, because holy shit, mafia claims are the dumbest things I have ever seen. So yeah. Claim mafia beyond this point and I'll assume it's the truth. I also refuse to read anything else up to here, unless someone specifically points me somewhere in the first 23 pages worth reading.
Now can we keep the postcount reasonable? This isn't a mini, and I'm going sailing all weekend and have a deadline on Monday.
Thanks.
Acrofales, the townie.
what the hell did I just read. Your all bad so ill be bad so stop being so bad. also lynch all liars is the dumbest shit (at least here) and worrying about mafia claims. where did this majestic beast come from. mafiaish but def way to ego for me to handle for an entire mafia game
On March 02 2019 16:27 Acrofales wrote: Well, clearly failing as you just posted 3 one-liners in a row. Think. Then post. Also, my intention is quite obvious. I'm going away for the weekend and don't want to read 1000 posts like your last 3 when I get back.
then just vote the person you think is mafia before you go and stop being such a weiner
On March 03 2019 17:09 Acrofales wrote: Enters Palmar: he claims to feel strongly about killing sent. So let him do it. All you need to decide is if Palmar is townie enough. But if we decide Palmar is townie enough to be mayor then he is free to kill whoever he likes. He sticks with sentinel and sentinel flips scum? We win, yay! Sheep Palmar into Armageddon. Sentinel flips town? We figure out if Palmars policy lynch is an ideological thing or a scum thing. Either way, we get information about Palmar out of this, which is a great thing to get out of D1.
On March 03 2019 17:11 Acrofales wrote: Oh, also, if sent was actually playing and being townie, I'd be more inclined to want him to live. But he has used this "foil" to be an attention whore and cop out of doing anything else so far. Not town play.
On March 03 2019 20:16 Palmar wrote: Like sure, if he is mafia and knows Sent is town, he could be setting up a pushback on me, but he'd have to be extra dumb to believe I'm afraid of following through with a good policy lynch because of town lashback.
I just think it's a weak play if he's mafia, and I like the fact he's not just focusing on the things in the thread right at that moment. I didn't actually read much of his cases. I got the feeling, possibly wrong, that he was reading and responding in the thread while still trying to filter out a few people. It looks like he's trying.
Like even if Sentinel flips town, lynching him is a good move for town right now. I have absolutely no qualms about killing people for playing anti-town.
Palmar filter was good because it had some quotes from rayn and acro. I like that rayn picked up on acro.. palmars counter about weak play are fair and aceo is a solid player. But i give higher credit to weekend and massive game = preference to cop out even if mafia. I do like palmat back and forth with rayn and even though i know palmar excels at pushing for thread soapbox position it read as if he was trying to work with the thread instead of pretend to keep up a facade.
In this quote, which happens after reading sl/palmar/sentinel Mocsta has already pre-determined Acro looks scummy somehow by the way because he says "he likes that rayn picked up on acro" which means he got to Palmer's filter and already had this predisposition to dislike Acro.
Uh-oh, it looks like we reached the end of all of their allotted time and we saw no mention of Acro focusing on lurkers or anything that would make Mocsta type what he did. What could that meaaaaaaaaaaaaaan?
Lynch all liars?
Maybe, but we're still not killing him before you.
Ugggghhhh. Please tell me I am wrong, but rsoultin looks really really scummy in how she talks about Palmar.
In the beginning, she just seems upset that Palmar, a big name, is stealing the limelight and that people (me) are happy to sheep him. I can see that happening from a town point of view. But there's some stuff that doesn't scan with that:
On March 04 2019 16:19 WaveofShadow wrote: Strangely ironic that when I first read your post I bristled at being told I had a chipmunk memory, but if reading comprehension doesn't fail me (and maybe evidently, it does?) you were talking about yourself?
lol
Fair point I guess but the larger point still stands---if you are calling me scum, you're doing it based on nothing other than how 'blah' I'm being? And I still don't buy you not being great at reading me. Historically, you have been barring I think our first couple games together.
-shrugs- Maybe I was I really don't recall lol I don't even remember if you were the one Palmar kept trying to convince me was scum in the Noir game Artanis threw a fit in where I needed to be hit between the eyes with it before I just sheepled a Palmar days later.
Actually yeah I'm pretty sure that's you.
But regardless, I don't think it matters. You can believe or not that I don't remember how to read you no skin off my back. The purpose of my post was 1) objectively don't like the sniping without really saying anything and 2) getting others' opinions on it because I think you're not much of a poster anyway. (Again with the caveat that I don't really remember.)
Anyway! If you want to talk about something else we can cause this is getting circular and I read people better when they're not talking about me.
Now I was nowhere near that game and have no idea what happened, but clearly rsoultin is okay with people sheeping Palmar, because she does it herself as town. Still, don't know the game, so different circumstances, etc. etc. but this whole thing about being upset people are sheeping Palmar makes far more sense from a scum player than a town player:
Town rsoultin: upset because she doesn't know Palmar is town and is worried dumb townies are sheepling a scum Palmar. Next step should be: figure out Palmar's allegiance.
Scum rsoultin: upset because townies are sheeplong a town Palmar, who is always going to be one of the major threats to scum in the game.
So. Lets see, where does rsoultin go with her investigation into Palmar. I tell you, it's nowhere. She doesn't try to engage with Palmar. She doesn't analyse Palmar's posts. Nada. She just throws shade:
On March 03 2019 18:27 Holyflare wrote: When did I ever make a case on rayn wtf?
You didn't that I recall.
Though I like his Palmar read.
Rayn at the time had a pretty weak scumread on Palmar based on (1) Palmar thinking I was looking townie, and (2) Palmar wanting to policy kill Sent. There really wasn't much there, but this is literally the only justification for rsoultin going after Palmar, because the next appearance we see is her waffling onto Palmar as an "experiment":
On March 03 2019 18:42 rsoultin wrote: ##unvote ##vote: Palmar
I have no idea what the experiment did, except set her up for vote analysis for "going after Palmar early" or some such nonsense. She herself just kinda waffled on it too:
On March 04 2019 04:59 Rels wrote: rsoul can you detail your "experiment" if it's done ?
Which one? The first was seeing if Rayn would get annoyed and come after me for ignoring his question. Which he both did and didn't so that was a wash. Though he did actively ignore me when I was trying to get clarification on his Iam read changing, which makes me want to lynch him and pretend that's more about scumreading him than ego. He's definitely still a scum lean, though.
The second was seeing what happened with a Palmar vote when so many were kinda scumreading him but that one I just kinda abandoned cause impatient rsoul is impatient. And HF's comment on LS was right and that's actually a good way to read LS, but LS is probably just town for getting all out of whack with no real pressure on him lol ><
Damdred is probably just scum though so that's nice ^^ It's not as strong a read as my tonal read that I think he's incapable of replicated as mafia but he's not playing this game right.
But she isn't done, she'll continue throwing jabs his way, based on... what? Still nothing insofar as I can tell from her filter. That comes quite a bit later, when she finally gets around to explaining why Palmar is scum. I'll just post it verbatim, because it's utter bullshit: + Show Spoiler [shade] +
On March 04 2019 04:00 iamperfection wrote: i think its obvious that im town as well so just vote me for mayor. i don't think i've ever made a case as mafia.
Ill use the ability as another lynch during the night phase where we have to do votes and shit. and lynch whoever we vote " although i would probably do what i want and just use it as a vig shot because im a dictator.
Is that how the mayor thing works? Then we really shouldn't be voting for Palmar.
I wanted to give your post a response that was not based on my feeling or tone.
So here we go,
The first thing I will point to is meta for LS, generally speaking he gives a good bit of town reads that seem flimsy early and he always seems to be noncommittal early. This is based off of meta and just not this game precisely. I do not think that this is a good point to have against him, he is always flip floppy on reads and super paranoid.
However there is a great point that his reads lack many scumspects or anything revolving actual verifiable reads that say x is scum.
He also is not as helpful this game as he generally would be, q lot of time he would dig in past games to figure out if player x does x or y.
There is also the point of his weak rage, seemed to be under almost no pressure but this is a bull tell he generally only goes it as town but he broke this as scum years ago so is not something to fall back on.
I think, that there is a chance that he is scum and you are correct Sen just based off the laziness and the lack of discernable scum reads that he is not pushing.
However I do not think hes the best lynch today. But you did lit together a good case.
This is a great post for why LS is scum. Just saying.
Your right, I basically talked myself out of a hard town read just writing back i stead of on feels. I'd rather still not lynch him today as I think a night/day I could make heads or tails using my charm. But I wont cry and rant otherwise
Not you. You're still in the doghouse of not damdying
Ha, I was excited for a moment and felt that we had a connection....but seriously I think there are good points there but you have to agree that ls is enough of a hard read sometimes that two days are necessary.
I don't have to agree on anything other than I'm floundering all over the place trying to find a good lynch today and will probably just end up sheeping iam or hf like a boob ^^
But I think you and LS and palmar and rayn all have good chances of flipping scum and maybe koshi and maybe chez but maybe not for #reasons and MZ is someone no one is talking about and Iam may be right on acro which gives me what? 8? So I'm wrong somewhere lol ><
On March 05 2019 06:21 rsoultin wrote: Yeah I still think Palmar is likely to be scum. Have no issue whatsoever mayoring Iam and killing BH (though I'm thinking we're likely to see a town flip there tbh) but I'm not changing my vote if it makes Palmar mayor.
If you think BH is going to flip Town, then why not lynch Palmar?
I'd be happy to lynch Palmar if anyone wanted to lynch Palmar. I'm also happy to lynch Truffle and Tube. And Rayn if it comes to it. Also LS, but my bad rsoul doubting brain is less confident about him.
On March 03 2019 20:12 Palmar wrote: To be fair I mostly like Acro just for these two posts. They're the logical way to play the game.
Kill the policy lynch, continue playing.
On March 03 2019 17:09 Acrofales wrote: Enters Palmar: he claims to feel strongly about killing sent. So let him do it. All you need to decide is if Palmar is townie enough. But if we decide Palmar is townie enough to be mayor then he is free to kill whoever he likes. He sticks with sentinel and sentinel flips scum? We win, yay! Sheep Palmar into Armageddon. Sentinel flips town? We figure out if Palmars policy lynch is an ideological thing or a scum thing. Either way, we get information about Palmar out of this, which is a great thing to get out of D1.
On March 03 2019 17:11 Acrofales wrote: Oh, also, if sent was actually playing and being townie, I'd be more inclined to want him to live. But he has used this "foil" to be an attention whore and cop out of doing anything else so far. Not town play.
@Palmar, let's assume Acro is the leading lynch candidate but your vote could choose somebody else to lynch. Who would you lynch instead of Acro, that isn't Sent?
Palmar's entire post history seems to be super focused on this policy lynch of Sent -- that's it. Town Reads HF, Town Reads Acro. He's not wanting to scum hunt on day 1, but go all in on a policy lynch. I don't think I mind having a strong conviction about the policy lynch, but I think I do mind only green reading other people and only pushing your one policy lynch.
I think Palmar is scum.
I like Rayn's read on Palmar, ironically, cause I think they're both scum.
Palmar not playing on a weekend is Palmar-y. Palmar playing is Palmar-y. This half and half stuff I wouldn't trust with a 10-foot pole and I hate how much support he's gotten. I also hate that some of that is probably from shit town who just see the shiny name and go oh, Palmar, he's a god, let's check our brains at the door.
-cocks head at- So you've decided to play rather than whine about people saying a person who was only posting images was a good vig target?
Her earlier light suspicion of people following Palmar has turned into thinking Palmar is scum because people are sheeping him. This is bonkers. It doesn't make sense. Nobody can think this is a real reason for scumreading someone. Someone is scum because they do scummy things, not because they just happen to be there and other people do scummy things (sheeping them). This reeks of a scummer panicking that town Palmar is gaining traction. It isn't how a townie thinks.
But now that we have established that Palmar is a priori scum, and rsoultin doesn't have to doubt herself, it all makes sense:
On March 03 2019 20:12 Palmar wrote: To be fair I mostly like Acro just for these two posts. They're the logical way to play the game.
Kill the policy lynch, continue playing.
On March 03 2019 17:09 Acrofales wrote: Enters Palmar: he claims to feel strongly about killing sent. So let him do it. All you need to decide is if Palmar is townie enough. But if we decide Palmar is townie enough to be mayor then he is free to kill whoever he likes. He sticks with sentinel and sentinel flips scum? We win, yay! Sheep Palmar into Armageddon. Sentinel flips town? We figure out if Palmars policy lynch is an ideological thing or a scum thing. Either way, we get information about Palmar out of this, which is a great thing to get out of D1.
On March 03 2019 17:11 Acrofales wrote: Oh, also, if sent was actually playing and being townie, I'd be more inclined to want him to live. But he has used this "foil" to be an attention whore and cop out of doing anything else so far. Not town play.
@Palmar, let's assume Acro is the leading lynch candidate but your vote could choose somebody else to lynch. Who would you lynch instead of Acro, that isn't Sent?
Palmar's entire post history seems to be super focused on this policy lynch of Sent -- that's it. Town Reads HF, Town Reads Acro. He's not wanting to scum hunt on day 1, but go all in on a policy lynch. I don't think I mind having a strong conviction about the policy lynch, but I think I do mind only green reading other people and only pushing your one policy lynch.
I think Palmar is scum.
I like Rayn's read on Palmar, ironically, cause I think they're both scum.
Palmar not playing on a weekend is Palmar-y. Palmar playing is Palmar-y. This half and half stuff I wouldn't trust with a 10-foot pole and I hate how much support he's gotten. I also hate that some of that is probably from shit town who just see the shiny name and go oh, Palmar, he's a god, let's check our brains at the door.
-cocks head at- So you've decided to play rather than whine about people saying a person who was only posting images was a good vig target?
So then following this, if Palmar is scum:
What does his pushing on Sent say? Is it a random policy lynch or is there more to it?
What does his town read on acro mean?
Don't know and don't care? Palmar is capable of pushing or reading people any which way if he's scum, so why is this a thing for you?
Independently I think sent seems okay, certainly enough to warrant not lynching him d1. And acro is someone I need to look at again cause I've seen things I both like and don't like. I don't feel strongly enough on him to not lynch him though so there's that.
Palmar is scum because Palmar is making reads and pushing people.
Now regardless of whether rsoultin is a good player or a clueless scrub, she has been around the forum, and has admitted herself to sheeping Palmar as town. Does this filter read like someone who is trying to figure out whether Palmar is mafia? Or someone pushing an agenda. I can really only get the latter from it.
rsoultin congrats on leaving the maybe pile. You scummy little creature, you.
On March 06 2019 00:23 WaveofShadow wrote: I can already see what's going to happen We end up leaving all the loose ends alive tomorrow because somebody presents something shiny and scum laugh all the way to the bank
Don't lose sight of the goal tomorrow. Idgaf about this mocsta case tbh
No. If HF is alive tomorrow, kill the fuck out of him.
On March 05 2019 23:52 iamperfection wrote: Holyflare might be mafia it will take someone smarter than me to prove it. Kill if alive late game if he isn't catching scum. Hold a gun to my head I would say town just put himself out there so much.
Why wait til endgame? If holyflare is such an amazeballs player how does he do something as utterly stupid as shank Palmar day 1 as town... and be completely casual about the flip.
You could maybe say that he is only playing for the lolz, but he is far too serious to be playing for the lolz. His filter reads like someone putting real effort into the game, and a townie being invested in the game would be worried he got it right. Not trolling through the deadline.
On March 06 2019 00:47 Holyflare wrote: You can quite easily evaluate things yourself my dude, you're a big boy. Don't have to believe everything I say.
On March 06 2019 00:55 Holyflare wrote: Care to evaluate mocsta's as well then?
No problem. I think you brought up some good points. After hearing his side, I don't think the point about me is very salient. He read 3 filters and cited the wrong one. It's a big game, and people get confused. I know I do.
But the whole inconsistency about sheeping Palmar's case while unquestioningly sitting on your mayor wagon to kill Palmar is pretty scummy. He's definitely moving up on the ladder. Yesterday I read his exchange with Palmar as two townies having at it, and then having a come-to-jesus moment over the revelation of a scumslip. But I didn't clue into the fact that all that time he was voting you for mayor, and therefore still wanted to murder Palmar even after their making up over a conversion lynch. It's like in this post: https://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=27281706 he completely forgot that Palmar was one of his main scumspects and he was right then voting to dead him.
On March 05 2019 21:27 marvellosity wrote: That’s a decent case
Why?
Its taking worsw case explanation
A lot of this is easy to explain as a townie with no knowledge.
Hf does this every game we play when im town I simply am not wishy washy when scum.
Again.ignore the big letyers. What did u actually like about it?
I will admit you didn’t sound scummy to me from the few posts I’d read.
I did just check sentinel’s filter though and I’m struggling to see where you got anything about not liking acro from it
does it matter?
It was either in sentinel sicklucker or palmar. Thise were the first three i read.
I read sicklucker because j thought he was tubesock. I wanted to read tubesock cos last game i played with him he was a very well reasoned and rstiinal town viice that i thought woukd br an easy read.
Let's fact check. Remember you specifically said the words:
I didnt like acro in sentinel filter. Cheesy focus on lurjers.. reqd like he was polishing a turd.
And the deadline is before March 03 2019 15:00 GMT
Sicklucker
SL taking to acro about Lynch all Liars, no mention of lurkers from Acro + Show Spoiler +
On March 02 2019 16:17 Acrofales wrote: I just started reading and 3 pages in stopped again. From this point onwards, I will be operating on a lynch all liars policy, because holy shit, mafia claims are the dumbest things I have ever seen. So yeah. Claim mafia beyond this point and I'll assume it's the truth. I also refuse to read anything else up to here, unless someone specifically points me somewhere in the first 23 pages worth reading.
Now can we keep the postcount reasonable? This isn't a mini, and I'm going sailing all weekend and have a deadline on Monday.
Thanks.
Acrofales, the townie.
what the hell did I just read. Your all bad so ill be bad so stop being so bad. also lynch all liars is the dumbest shit (at least here) and worrying about mafia claims. where did this majestic beast come from. mafiaish but def way to ego for me to handle for an entire mafia game
On March 02 2019 16:27 Acrofales wrote: Well, clearly failing as you just posted 3 one-liners in a row. Think. Then post. Also, my intention is quite obvious. I'm going away for the weekend and don't want to read 1000 posts like your last 3 when I get back.
then just vote the person you think is mafia before you go and stop being such a weiner
That's it.
Palmar
So aside from the fact that rayn's post is just bad analysis (Acro and HF both look fine at the moment), his thing on me is pretty hilarious
Palmar saying he likes Acro and no mention of lurkers: + Show Spoiler +
On March 03 2019 20:12 Palmar wrote: To be fair I mostly like Acro just for these two posts. They're the logical way to play the game.
On March 03 2019 17:09 Acrofales wrote: Enters Palmar: he claims to feel strongly about killing sent. So let him do it. All you need to decide is if Palmar is townie enough. But if we decide Palmar is townie enough to be mayor then he is free to kill whoever he likes. He sticks with sentinel and sentinel flips scum? We win, yay! Sheep Palmar into Armageddon. Sentinel flips town? We figure out if Palmars policy lynch is an ideological thing or a scum thing. Either way, we get information about Palmar out of this, which is a great thing to get out of D1.
On March 03 2019 17:11 Acrofales wrote: Oh, also, if sent was actually playing and being townie, I'd be more inclined to want him to live. But he has used this "foil" to be an attention whore and cop out of doing anything else so far. Not town play.
On March 03 2019 20:16 Palmar wrote: Like sure, if he is mafia and knows Sent is town, he could be setting up a pushback on me, but he'd have to be extra dumb to believe I'm afraid of following through with a good policy lynch because of town lashback.
I just think it's a weak play if he's mafia, and I like the fact he's not just focusing on the things in the thread right at that moment. I didn't actually read much of his cases. I got the feeling, possibly wrong, that he was reading and responding in the thread while still trying to filter out a few people. It looks like he's trying.
Like even if Sentinel flips town, lynching him is a good move for town right now. I have absolutely no qualms about killing people for playing anti-town.
Palmar filter was good because it had some quotes from rayn and acro. I like that rayn picked up on acro.. palmars counter about weak play are fair and aceo is a solid player. But i give higher credit to weekend and massive game = preference to cop out even if mafia. I do like palmat back and forth with rayn and even though i know palmar excels at pushing for thread soapbox position it read as if he was trying to work with the thread instead of pretend to keep up a facade.
In this quote, which happens after reading sl/palmar/sentinel Mocsta has already pre-determined Acro looks scummy somehow by the way because he says "he likes that rayn picked up on acro" which means he got to Palmer's filter and already had this predisposition to dislike Acro.
Uh-oh, it looks like we reached the end of all of their allotted time and we saw no mention of Acro focusing on lurkers or anything that would make Mocsta type what he did. What could that meaaaaaaaaaaaaaan?
Lynch all liars?
I disagree that my list post was lurkers, but it was being characterized as such in the thread. So I'm not surprised he picked up on it. I don't think it's the massive scumslip you make it out to be.
On March 05 2019 21:27 marvellosity wrote: That’s a decent case
Why?
Its taking worsw case explanation
A lot of this is easy to explain as a townie with no knowledge.
Hf does this every game we play when im town I simply am not wishy washy when scum.
Again.ignore the big letyers. What did u actually like about it?
I will admit you didn’t sound scummy to me from the few posts I’d read.
I did just check sentinel’s filter though and I’m struggling to see where you got anything about not liking acro from it
does it matter?
It was either in sentinel sicklucker or palmar. Thise were the first three i read.
I read sicklucker because j thought he was tubesock. I wanted to read tubesock cos last game i played with him he was a very well reasoned and rstiinal town viice that i thought woukd br an easy read.
Let's fact check. Remember you specifically said the words:
I didnt like acro in sentinel filter. Cheesy focus on lurjers.. reqd like he was polishing a turd.
And the deadline is before March 03 2019 15:00 GMT
Sicklucker
SL taking to acro about Lynch all Liars, no mention of lurkers from Acro + Show Spoiler +
On March 02 2019 16:17 Acrofales wrote: I just started reading and 3 pages in stopped again. From this point onwards, I will be operating on a lynch all liars policy, because holy shit, mafia claims are the dumbest things I have ever seen. So yeah. Claim mafia beyond this point and I'll assume it's the truth. I also refuse to read anything else up to here, unless someone specifically points me somewhere in the first 23 pages worth reading.
Now can we keep the postcount reasonable? This isn't a mini, and I'm going sailing all weekend and have a deadline on Monday.
Thanks.
Acrofales, the townie.
what the hell did I just read. Your all bad so ill be bad so stop being so bad. also lynch all liars is the dumbest shit (at least here) and worrying about mafia claims. where did this majestic beast come from. mafiaish but def way to ego for me to handle for an entire mafia game
On March 02 2019 16:27 Acrofales wrote: Well, clearly failing as you just posted 3 one-liners in a row. Think. Then post. Also, my intention is quite obvious. I'm going away for the weekend and don't want to read 1000 posts like your last 3 when I get back.
then just vote the person you think is mafia before you go and stop being such a weiner
That's it.
Palmar
So aside from the fact that rayn's post is just bad analysis (Acro and HF both look fine at the moment), his thing on me is pretty hilarious
Palmar saying he likes Acro and no mention of lurkers: + Show Spoiler +
On March 03 2019 20:12 Palmar wrote: To be fair I mostly like Acro just for these two posts. They're the logical way to play the game.
On March 03 2019 17:09 Acrofales wrote: Enters Palmar: he claims to feel strongly about killing sent. So let him do it. All you need to decide is if Palmar is townie enough. But if we decide Palmar is townie enough to be mayor then he is free to kill whoever he likes. He sticks with sentinel and sentinel flips scum? We win, yay! Sheep Palmar into Armageddon. Sentinel flips town? We figure out if Palmars policy lynch is an ideological thing or a scum thing. Either way, we get information about Palmar out of this, which is a great thing to get out of D1.
On March 03 2019 17:11 Acrofales wrote: Oh, also, if sent was actually playing and being townie, I'd be more inclined to want him to live. But he has used this "foil" to be an attention whore and cop out of doing anything else so far. Not town play.
On March 03 2019 20:16 Palmar wrote: Like sure, if he is mafia and knows Sent is town, he could be setting up a pushback on me, but he'd have to be extra dumb to believe I'm afraid of following through with a good policy lynch because of town lashback.
I just think it's a weak play if he's mafia, and I like the fact he's not just focusing on the things in the thread right at that moment. I didn't actually read much of his cases. I got the feeling, possibly wrong, that he was reading and responding in the thread while still trying to filter out a few people. It looks like he's trying.
Like even if Sentinel flips town, lynching him is a good move for town right now. I have absolutely no qualms about killing people for playing anti-town.
Palmar filter was good because it had some quotes from rayn and acro. I like that rayn picked up on acro.. palmars counter about weak play are fair and aceo is a solid player. But i give higher credit to weekend and massive game = preference to cop out even if mafia. I do like palmat back and forth with rayn and even though i know palmar excels at pushing for thread soapbox position it read as if he was trying to work with the thread instead of pretend to keep up a facade.
In this quote, which happens after reading sl/palmar/sentinel Mocsta has already pre-determined Acro looks scummy somehow by the way because he says "he likes that rayn picked up on acro" which means he got to Palmer's filter and already had this predisposition to dislike Acro.
Uh-oh, it looks like we reached the end of all of their allotted time and we saw no mention of Acro focusing on lurkers or anything that would make Mocsta type what he did. What could that meaaaaaaaaaaaaaan?
Lynch all liars?
I disagree that my list post was lurkers, but it was being characterized as such in the thread. So I'm not surprised he picked up on it. I don't think it's the massive scumslip you make it out to be.
What the fuck are you talking about? Your list post happens after all of my case and after everything that is quoted.
No. My list post was sunday morning and Mocsta only even entered the thread on sunday afternoon...
On March 06 2019 01:52 Oatsmaster wrote: Also the only reason why conversions vote switch is bad is if bh is a power mafia role
what? If BH is scum (which I am doubting), conversion's vote switch is an obvious play for scum, and we're waffling around it. It doesn't make much sense to analyse it, because we can't even pressure conversion about it (which is, btw, a fantastic reason to do it as scum, and imho an abuse of game mechanics around replacements). But scummarv will show himself, and there's a couple of people ahead of him in the lynch pile.
On March 05 2019 21:27 marvellosity wrote: That’s a decent case
Why?
Its taking worsw case explanation
A lot of this is easy to explain as a townie with no knowledge.
Hf does this every game we play when im town I simply am not wishy washy when scum.
Again.ignore the big letyers. What did u actually like about it?
I will admit you didn’t sound scummy to me from the few posts I’d read.
I did just check sentinel’s filter though and I’m struggling to see where you got anything about not liking acro from it
does it matter?
It was either in sentinel sicklucker or palmar. Thise were the first three i read.
I read sicklucker because j thought he was tubesock. I wanted to read tubesock cos last game i played with him he was a very well reasoned and rstiinal town viice that i thought woukd br an easy read.
Let's fact check. Remember you specifically said the words:
I didnt like acro in sentinel filter. Cheesy focus on lurjers.. reqd like he was polishing a turd.
And the deadline is before March 03 2019 15:00 GMT
Sicklucker
SL taking to acro about Lynch all Liars, no mention of lurkers from Acro + Show Spoiler +
On March 02 2019 16:17 Acrofales wrote: I just started reading and 3 pages in stopped again. From this point onwards, I will be operating on a lynch all liars policy, because holy shit, mafia claims are the dumbest things I have ever seen. So yeah. Claim mafia beyond this point and I'll assume it's the truth. I also refuse to read anything else up to here, unless someone specifically points me somewhere in the first 23 pages worth reading.
Now can we keep the postcount reasonable? This isn't a mini, and I'm going sailing all weekend and have a deadline on Monday.
Thanks.
Acrofales, the townie.
what the hell did I just read. Your all bad so ill be bad so stop being so bad. also lynch all liars is the dumbest shit (at least here) and worrying about mafia claims. where did this majestic beast come from. mafiaish but def way to ego for me to handle for an entire mafia game
On March 02 2019 16:27 Acrofales wrote: Well, clearly failing as you just posted 3 one-liners in a row. Think. Then post. Also, my intention is quite obvious. I'm going away for the weekend and don't want to read 1000 posts like your last 3 when I get back.
then just vote the person you think is mafia before you go and stop being such a weiner
That's it.
Palmar
So aside from the fact that rayn's post is just bad analysis (Acro and HF both look fine at the moment), his thing on me is pretty hilarious
Palmar saying he likes Acro and no mention of lurkers: + Show Spoiler +
On March 03 2019 20:12 Palmar wrote: To be fair I mostly like Acro just for these two posts. They're the logical way to play the game.
On March 03 2019 17:09 Acrofales wrote: Enters Palmar: he claims to feel strongly about killing sent. So let him do it. All you need to decide is if Palmar is townie enough. But if we decide Palmar is townie enough to be mayor then he is free to kill whoever he likes. He sticks with sentinel and sentinel flips scum? We win, yay! Sheep Palmar into Armageddon. Sentinel flips town? We figure out if Palmars policy lynch is an ideological thing or a scum thing. Either way, we get information about Palmar out of this, which is a great thing to get out of D1.
On March 03 2019 17:11 Acrofales wrote: Oh, also, if sent was actually playing and being townie, I'd be more inclined to want him to live. But he has used this "foil" to be an attention whore and cop out of doing anything else so far. Not town play.
On March 03 2019 20:16 Palmar wrote: Like sure, if he is mafia and knows Sent is town, he could be setting up a pushback on me, but he'd have to be extra dumb to believe I'm afraid of following through with a good policy lynch because of town lashback.
I just think it's a weak play if he's mafia, and I like the fact he's not just focusing on the things in the thread right at that moment. I didn't actually read much of his cases. I got the feeling, possibly wrong, that he was reading and responding in the thread while still trying to filter out a few people. It looks like he's trying.
Like even if Sentinel flips town, lynching him is a good move for town right now. I have absolutely no qualms about killing people for playing anti-town.
Palmar filter was good because it had some quotes from rayn and acro. I like that rayn picked up on acro.. palmars counter about weak play are fair and aceo is a solid player. But i give higher credit to weekend and massive game = preference to cop out even if mafia. I do like palmat back and forth with rayn and even though i know palmar excels at pushing for thread soapbox position it read as if he was trying to work with the thread instead of pretend to keep up a facade.
In this quote, which happens after reading sl/palmar/sentinel Mocsta has already pre-determined Acro looks scummy somehow by the way because he says "he likes that rayn picked up on acro" which means he got to Palmer's filter and already had this predisposition to dislike Acro.
Uh-oh, it looks like we reached the end of all of their allotted time and we saw no mention of Acro focusing on lurkers or anything that would make Mocsta type what he did. What could that meaaaaaaaaaaaaaan?
Lynch all liars?
I disagree that my list post was lurkers, but it was being characterized as such in the thread. So I'm not surprised he picked up on it. I don't think it's the massive scumslip you make it out to be.
What the fuck are you talking about? Your list post happens after all of my case and after everything that is quoted.
No. My list post was sunday morning and Mocsta only even entered the thread on sunday afternoon...
Okay, let me just get this straight. You are defending Mocsta by saying maybe he read the thread and somehow conveniently forgot that and attributed it to one of the 3 player's he had read filters of, despite saying he hadn't read the thread.
That's acceptable, okay. Even though he said he hadn't actually read the thread (is that a lie then?)
Then you also have to say that when I made the case and called him out on it he retroactively changed his stance to it being him meaning POLICY on Sentinel and not actually anything to do with lurkers:
On March 05 2019 21:27 marvellosity wrote: That’s a decent case
Why?
Its taking worsw case explanation
A lot of this is easy to explain as a townie with no knowledge.
Hf does this every game we play when im town I simply am not wishy washy when scum.
Again.ignore the big letyers. What did u actually like about it?
I will admit you didn’t sound scummy to me from the few posts I’d read.
I did just check sentinel’s filter though and I’m struggling to see where you got anything about not liking acro from it
does it matter?
It was either in sentinel sicklucker or palmar. Thise were the first three i read.
I read sicklucker because j thought he was tubesock. I wanted to read tubesock cos last game i played with him he was a very well reasoned and rstiinal town viice that i thought woukd br an easy read.
Let's fact check. Remember you specifically said the words:
I didnt like acro in sentinel filter. Cheesy focus on lurjers.. reqd like he was polishing a turd.
And the deadline is before March 03 2019 15:00 GMT
Sicklucker
SL taking to acro about Lynch all Liars, no mention of lurkers from Acro + Show Spoiler +
On March 02 2019 16:17 Acrofales wrote: I just started reading and 3 pages in stopped again. From this point onwards, I will be operating on a lynch all liars policy, because holy shit, mafia claims are the dumbest things I have ever seen. So yeah. Claim mafia beyond this point and I'll assume it's the truth. I also refuse to read anything else up to here, unless someone specifically points me somewhere in the first 23 pages worth reading.
Now can we keep the postcount reasonable? This isn't a mini, and I'm going sailing all weekend and have a deadline on Monday.
Thanks.
Acrofales, the townie.
what the hell did I just read. Your all bad so ill be bad so stop being so bad. also lynch all liars is the dumbest shit (at least here) and worrying about mafia claims. where did this majestic beast come from. mafiaish but def way to ego for me to handle for an entire mafia game
On March 02 2019 16:27 Acrofales wrote: Well, clearly failing as you just posted 3 one-liners in a row. Think. Then post. Also, my intention is quite obvious. I'm going away for the weekend and don't want to read 1000 posts like your last 3 when I get back.
then just vote the person you think is mafia before you go and stop being such a weiner
That's it.
Palmar
So aside from the fact that rayn's post is just bad analysis (Acro and HF both look fine at the moment), his thing on me is pretty hilarious
Palmar saying he likes Acro and no mention of lurkers: + Show Spoiler +
On March 03 2019 20:12 Palmar wrote: To be fair I mostly like Acro just for these two posts. They're the logical way to play the game.
On March 03 2019 17:09 Acrofales wrote: Enters Palmar: he claims to feel strongly about killing sent. So let him do it. All you need to decide is if Palmar is townie enough. But if we decide Palmar is townie enough to be mayor then he is free to kill whoever he likes. He sticks with sentinel and sentinel flips scum? We win, yay! Sheep Palmar into Armageddon. Sentinel flips town? We figure out if Palmars policy lynch is an ideological thing or a scum thing. Either way, we get information about Palmar out of this, which is a great thing to get out of D1.
On March 03 2019 17:11 Acrofales wrote: Oh, also, if sent was actually playing and being townie, I'd be more inclined to want him to live. But he has used this "foil" to be an attention whore and cop out of doing anything else so far. Not town play.
On March 03 2019 20:16 Palmar wrote: Like sure, if he is mafia and knows Sent is town, he could be setting up a pushback on me, but he'd have to be extra dumb to believe I'm afraid of following through with a good policy lynch because of town lashback.
I just think it's a weak play if he's mafia, and I like the fact he's not just focusing on the things in the thread right at that moment. I didn't actually read much of his cases. I got the feeling, possibly wrong, that he was reading and responding in the thread while still trying to filter out a few people. It looks like he's trying.
Like even if Sentinel flips town, lynching him is a good move for town right now. I have absolutely no qualms about killing people for playing anti-town.
Palmar filter was good because it had some quotes from rayn and acro. I like that rayn picked up on acro.. palmars counter about weak play are fair and aceo is a solid player. But i give higher credit to weekend and massive game = preference to cop out even if mafia. I do like palmat back and forth with rayn and even though i know palmar excels at pushing for thread soapbox position it read as if he was trying to work with the thread instead of pretend to keep up a facade.
In this quote, which happens after reading sl/palmar/sentinel Mocsta has already pre-determined Acro looks scummy somehow by the way because he says "he likes that rayn picked up on acro" which means he got to Palmer's filter and already had this predisposition to dislike Acro.
Uh-oh, it looks like we reached the end of all of their allotted time and we saw no mention of Acro focusing on lurkers or anything that would make Mocsta type what he did. What could that meaaaaaaaaaaaaaan?
Lynch all liars?
You are tunneled and embarrassing yourself Will.
Ok, no one mentioned the word lurker, and? Why can that not be my own interpretation or summation of policy lynch.
You are doing your usual thing of nitpicking phrasing that is not congruent with how you view things. It doesnt make me scum. It makes you tunneled.
You might not respect me as a player, but you should respect me enough not to spruik such blatantly and as you proved, easy to confirm as false, information.
Seriously, waste of time. Im going back to my game of AC. I've done my courtesy, no more replies.
Can you really defend that too?
No. I can't. There's something fishy about mocsta. I think we agree. I don't really know why you have to harp on about me not thinking absolutely every detail you picked up is scummy. It's night. He isn't here. There isn't a lynch to consolidate, and when there is, it's consolidating on you, not mocsta. But if you're green, you might not have been an utter failure. /golfclap.
On March 06 2019 01:52 Oatsmaster wrote: Also the only reason why conversions vote switch is bad is if bh is a power mafia role
what? If BH is scum (which I am doubting), conversion's vote switch is an obvious play for scum, and we're waffling around it. It doesn't make much sense to analyse it, because we can't even pressure conversion about it (which is, btw, a fantastic reason to do it as scum, and imho an abuse of game mechanics around replacements). But scummarv will show himself, and there's a couple of people ahead of him in the lynch pile.
Is it illegal to share my opinion acro?
No. But try to make sense when you do. Your one-liner is a complete non-sequitur.
On March 06 2019 01:52 Oatsmaster wrote: Also the only reason why conversions vote switch is bad is if bh is a power mafia role
what? If BH is scum (which I am doubting), conversion's vote switch is an obvious play for scum, and we're waffling around it. It doesn't make much sense to analyse it, because we can't even pressure conversion about it (which is, btw, a fantastic reason to do it as scum, and imho an abuse of game mechanics around replacements). But scummarv will show himself, and there's a couple of people ahead of him in the lynch pile.
Is it illegal to share my opinion acro?
No. But try to make sense when you do. Your one-liner is a complete non-sequitur.
you rather I randomly quote someone who said conversion was hella scummy?
No. But ok. You already dealt with if BH is a townie. Now:
On March 06 2019 01:52 Oatsmaster wrote: Also the only reason why conversions vote switch is bad is if bh is a power mafia role
On March 06 2019 01:52 Oatsmaster wrote: Also the only reason why conversions vote switch is bad is if bh is a power mafia role
what? If BH is scum (which I am doubting), conversion's vote switch is an obvious play for scum, and we're waffling around it. It doesn't make much sense to analyse it, because we can't even pressure conversion about it (which is, btw, a fantastic reason to do it as scum, and imho an abuse of game mechanics around replacements). But scummarv will show himself, and there's a couple of people ahead of him in the lynch pile.
Is it illegal to share my opinion acro?
No. But try to make sense when you do. Your one-liner is a complete non-sequitur.
you rather I randomly quote someone who said conversion was hella scummy?
No. But ok. You already dealt with if BH is a townie. Now:
On March 06 2019 01:52 Oatsmaster wrote: Also the only reason why conversions vote switch is bad is if bh is a power mafia role
What if BH is a goon?
Then the switch is ~~~ because conversion has to know that he’s probably going down after bh flips so there’s a decent chance it’s a 2 for 1 so I’m not sure he does that if bh is a goon
Does he though? He was replaced out and could never be called out on his vote switching shenanigans, and BH already explained how townies can do it. Moreover, it was in the context of HF shooting Palmar in the face, so scum also knew that shitstorm was going down simultaneously. I reckon he figured he could get away with it, and being replaced by marv, the king of scummers everywhere, there was a good chance they'd even bullshit their way out of it. At least as long as BH is unflipped, anyway.
And they aren't wrong. We probably shouldn't focus on that. BH looks like he might start playing, and his "GG guys" post was pretty townie (although if they knew they were gonna vote shenannies, that could've been precrafted to be good).
Meanwhile, the HF situation is a far bigger problem. Either one of the major town voices is scum and we need to get rid of him. Or he's an idiot scum sympathizer and we have to get rid of him anyway. So we need to get rid of HF *now*. Or in the words of the great Palmar, may he rest in peace:
On March 06 2019 02:35 Holyflare wrote: I don't think mafia would have any idea that I would shoot Palmar in the slightest. They would have thought it was a ruse.
On March 06 2019 02:36 WaveofShadow wrote: Ok wait a minute. I think I found something solid on rsoul?
Am I crazy in that nowhere does she solidly state WHY she thinks Palmar is scum aside from the fact that she likes Rayn's case which she then assumes to be a bus? This gives some context to her waffling a little on it later but earlier on in the day she just states 'he's a scumread' a bunch with almost no context aside from the fact that the idea seems to be gaining some traction. Like the only post where she gives even a bit of information at all, half of it is dedicated to talk about whether he does or doesnt play as scum or town on weekends.
And then later on she mentions how he can push a wagon as scum or town.
This might be it. Like, the rest of her filter looks ok, I don't mind the style where she pops in and snipes stuff here and there because there is actually some work/reads here and there. But it's when it comes to stuff that COUNTS that things always look off to me (ie. reads on me because I know my own alignment, reads on flipped players)
Did you even read my case? Because my case says that right there.
On March 06 2019 02:37 Vivax wrote: Anyway, here's my 100% scummers in case I die.
Iamp, Oats, Marv, Sentinel.
My 50 % scummers. Half of those are townies.
rsoultin, Wiggles, Pandain, ExO, BH, TS
Rayn not mafia cause can't be mafia with iamp in 9/10 cases. HF just decided to be a selfish dumbass and shit up the game and hurt my feelings, but alas, he's town by PoE. He literally doesn't give a shit about being townread when town. All he cares about is that people are wrong about him no matter his alignment so he can pat himself on the back.
Hm. And yesterday I thought we were mostly on the same wavelength.
At least we can agree on rsoultin, sentinel and wiggles.
But why do you have Lamp and Oats as strong scumreads?
I'd still lean Oats (???) because even with that pressure he doesn't commit to any sort of scum team besides "half the thread", at least in any meaningful way to advance the game.
Like this post is why Sentinel is confirmed scum.
When you're town, you read something that catches your attention, form the opinion, then go write about it to justify your opinion.
Here you have Sentinel forgetting to fill in the blank cause first he wrote up some bsbsbsbs, then he tried to decide what would be the best way to read Oats for that. Basically mafia with his pants down.
I think that's a bit of a stretch lol. Can quite easily forget a word or two when writing a giant wall of text.
I mean if you think this ONE missing word confirms him mafia then why the fuck don't you think Mocsta who was caught lying about his entire read on Acro isn't mafia? :D
No. He actually has a point. It isn't in the big post where he "forgot the word". He literally posted Oats as a scumread and then used the same justification to post Oats as a not-a-scumread.
This is backed up a bit later when Oats has disappeared off his scum list completely:
On March 05 2019 04:45 Mr. Wiggles wrote: What's with the BH train? If you want to kill a hardcore lurker like that why not use the mayor lynch? I don't see the benefit
Because BH is not your typical lurker. IMHO it's like foolishness or sandroba lurking. They hate playing scum, so just don't.
Even assuming this is true the only way this makes sense is if we have absolutely no other candidates to lynch. BH has barely defended himself and he's barely posted in the thread which means we barely get any information when we learn his role except maybe who sheeped his vote.
I'd rather lynch scum than "information". God, you're really trying to dig yourself into this hole, aren't you? :O
No, you'd rather pick an easy lynch based off activity rather than trying to figure out who all the scum are.
Lol. Hi pot.
Here are my scumreads rn
LS Damdred Tictock Trfel
I'm fine with lynching any of the four and I want whoever I do lynch to say as much as they can before they die so that maybe I can learn something useful
On March 06 2019 02:51 WaveofShadow wrote: In case it got buried,vivax you need to explain why Iamp is top scum read. I'm not finding much aside from one recent post.
If I had a word to describe town iamp, it'd be something like crusader against bullshit.
He played the part pretty well yesterday when BH came back into the thread, but not for long enough to warrant that name since he decided to kill Palmar by voting HF over himself instead.
Well that's....pretty damning? hmm. Ok yeah going to need something from iamp on this. I can't for the life of me understand why he voted for HF.
How has nobody brought this up yet? Jesus.
Scummy post from you though. seems like you know hf is mafia?
On March 06 2019 02:51 WaveofShadow wrote: In case it got buried,vivax you need to explain why Iamp is top scum read. I'm not finding much aside from one recent post.
If I had a word to describe town iamp, it'd be something like crusader against bullshit.
He played the part pretty well yesterday when BH came back into the thread, but not for long enough to warrant that name since he decided to kill Palmar by voting HF over himself instead.
Well that's....pretty damning? hmm. Ok yeah going to need something from iamp on this. I can't for the life of me understand why he voted for HF.
How has nobody brought this up yet? Jesus.
Scummy post from you though. seems like you know hf is mafia?
When did you get so bad at this game?
Trying to bait me?
Well. You made a big bad case on me. That was bad. Then you helped get Palmar killed for bad reasons. I even told you I went back and read his filter trying to read it as scum and couldn't, yet you just persisted and nailed him to the cross (holyflare might have dragged him up there, but you sure as shit helped hammer the nails in).
So if you're town, please stop being bad. We kinda need the help.
I mean, BH is gonna have to die or we're just gonna have this conversation til the end of days. But
On March 05 2019 08:59 Blazinghand wrote: Well, sorry for the poor performance guys. Exo is either more perceptive than most of you, or scum looking for post flip cred, for talking to me like I'm town. Same with Ace.
I really didn't expect the thread to balloon so much. Thabks for killing me early, this is a good plynch. Good luck everyone, and have fun!
This while useless seems like a VT who doesn't want to play, and not like a scummer who doesn't want to play. He's at least dropping *some* kinda info there.
Note that this was pretty much simultaneous with Conversions shenanigans, so unless they are scum together (a possibility that we shouldn't disregard and why we need the flip), BH really thought he was getting lynched here, and this is his "last words".
On March 05 2019 08:51 Palmar wrote: Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia
your wifom mind bomb wont work im going to ignore it.
Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia
The rest of the team is probably this: Sentinel rsoultin MZ damdred marvellosity bloodycobbler
But because there's no way I got it right in one go, there's probably scum in the lurks too: Onegu Rels ExO_ ace AMG
On March 06 2019 09:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: If there is another doctor youre a fucking retard and you made the worst play i have ever seen after some dumbass town lynched palmar after he shot mafia n1. There was simply zero reason to not protect iamperfection.
On March 06 2019 09:38 Blazinghand wrote: HF why did you claim a shot on me?
Here's a theory as to why HF did this. It is because he is scum.
In the Scum QT: Holyflare: Hey guys, the deadline is coming up. We know a vigi is going to shoot Blazinghand, and then probably claim after the daypost. Other Scums: yeah, sounds accurate to me. Holyflare: then Blazinghand will flip town, and i'm going to look real bad. Other Scums: oh no! Holyflare: ok, but here's the plan. I'm going to, right before the end of the night, with second on the clock, claim that I'm the vigi and am shooting BH. Other Scums: why would you do this HF? we're not shooting BH... Holflare: see, a vigi is going to shoot Blazinghand, and I will get autolynched D2 unless I can pose as the vigi who shot him. This will allow me to get in one more mislynch, as people will trust me. If the real vigi counterclaims, that's still a better situation than if I never claimed in the first place and just let myself get autolynched. Other Scums: good idea
Then, for some reason, I didn't get shot, and now HF has to just pretend he never claimed he was shooting me
Mostly on board with this reasoning.
But why does BH flipping town make HF look bad at the beginning?
On March 06 2019 09:38 Blazinghand wrote: HF why did you claim a shot on me?
Here's a theory as to why HF did this. It is because he is scum.
In the Scum QT: Holyflare: Hey guys, the deadline is coming up. We know a vigi is going to shoot Blazinghand, and then probably claim after the daypost. Other Scums: yeah, sounds accurate to me. Holyflare: then Blazinghand will flip town, and i'm going to look real bad. Other Scums: oh no! Holyflare: ok, but here's the plan. I'm going to, right before the end of the night, with second on the clock, claim that I'm the vigi and am shooting BH. Other Scums: why would you do this HF? we're not shooting BH... Holflare: see, a vigi is going to shoot Blazinghand, and I will get autolynched D2 unless I can pose as the vigi who shot him. This will allow me to get in one more mislynch, as people will trust me. If the real vigi counterclaims, that's still a better situation than if I never claimed in the first place and just let myself get autolynched. Other Scums: good idea
Then, for some reason, I didn't get shot, and now HF has to just pretend he never claimed he was shooting me
On March 06 2019 09:41 Holyflare wrote: If you can find me a game where I haven't done the exact same thing at night as town then you can have your victory BH.
On March 06 2019 09:41 Holyflare wrote: If you can find me a game where I haven't done the exact same thing at night as town then you can have your victory BH.
On March 06 2019 17:24 Holyflare wrote: The people voting me are on the biggest cop out lynch of 2019. I bet they're the same people that whined that BH didn't get shot too.
What benefit does my flip bring other than drawing you closer to end game? BH at least gives you the information about wagons. I'm also pumping out content comparatively to BH who is just sitting there with the most information in the game about his wagon and instead he's still just repeating to kill him. You may not agree with what I'm writing but that's your choice.
You can look at MZ's spreadsheet to see how stupid lynching palmar would have been if I was mafia. I'm not stupid as mafia, I demand thread consensus and people town reading me because it's the path of least resistance.
I will look into you Holyflare voters and if I see that you complained that BH isn't dead I will know your motivation about lynching me is completely feigned.
I will case you again later. But I'm not sure I care enough. I want you dead more than I want to win, so even if you're town, it's a fucking fantastic lynch.
Ace is a useless lurker doing nothing. You're reading a lot more into things than that, but it's what his play boils down to. But yeah, of the useless lurkers, he and BC are the scummiest.
Your case was one of the highlights of a really boring couple of pages tho.
Wiggles bussing his buddy BC. MZ feigning he's playing the game again. Chezinu sorta half-claiming cop, but not really: yawn.
Shocker I know right? The guy literally led us down a wrong path all fucking game. He has lied by his own admission multiple times. He claimed he would mayor lynch Sentinel, then Palmar. Said he wasn't serious on the Palmar lynch, then says he lies a few hours before deadline and offs Palmar who flips backup cop. He said he shot BH then claimed that he only did so to create tension in the thread. However his outrage about the game being full of blues seems one that an angry mafia could make. The other thing that gets me about his lying is he claims that he couldnt change his mayor vote because it was locked in while being insanely active right at the time the lynch was happening so could have changed it had he wished but claimed
On March 05 2019 09:41 Holyflare wrote: for the record if I knew bh was not getting lynched I would have absolutely switched it to him but it was already locked in
how is it locked in ?
that makes no sense you could have changed
I don't think so? I PMd it saying lynch palmar a long time ago when it was called for in the thread and when the deadline came I was told it was palmar selected. Didn't really get given any other opportunity but it is what it is.
Unless things have drastically changed since I played this game. If you had any action you could take whatsoever you could change it more than once before a deadline hit. So if this has changed feel free to correct me but until then this is a straight up fucking lie.
Next few thing that gets me however that stood out after a filter dive is this.
On March 04 2019 00:55 rsoultin wrote: The whole thing where LS's only 'scumread' out of 34 other people is MZ, and then he wants to kill Koshi screams to me of a Koshi that rolled scum and told his buddies to just lynch him.
If LS flips scum, MZ probably is scum, too, so that's three right there.
On March 04 2019 00:55 rsoultin wrote: The whole thing where LS's only 'scumread' out of 34 other people is MZ, and then he wants to kill Koshi screams to me of a Koshi that rolled scum and told his buddies to just lynch him.
If LS flips scum, MZ probably is scum, too, so that's three right there.
Koshi is confirmed town though so it's ok.
HOW THE FUCK IS HE CONFIRMED TOWN? HE NEVER FUCKING POSTED THIS ENTIRE GAME?
On March 04 2019 00:58 Holyflare wrote: Magic LightningStrike, magic
This exchange right here. How if a player who hasn't posted at that point in time even remotely close to being considered confirmed town? The only way that you would know this is if you actually knew his alignment.
Another gem. To discredit Palmar he uses this as one of his reasons to discredit him.
Can you really trust Palmar as mayor when he's not even top 7?
Bashing a player based on stats out of game rather than in game play? If you honestly believe (based on stats) that you are a better player than someone why do you need to bring that up as your reason? Should be good enough to win an election based on pure skill.
On March 05 2019 08:23 Holyflare wrote: Arbitrary list. Please tell me which of the ones I haven't read should be read asap. Bit annoying the bottom half of the player list has a lot of scummy people to read. I cba writing anymore so close to deadline.
tubesock (Could be wrong on him but his filter seems clean and he's making his own conclusions (albeit just on trfel, but trfel is the new flavour of the month and he was first so looks ok)
Fecalfeast (Don't hate anything he's said. In fact on page 2 of his filter everything he says there kind of aligns with what I've been thinking. His vote platform seems carefree and like he doesn't really give a shit, just wants to do his own thing. Very acro focused but not in an awful way. Content seems minimal though so he's not up at town.
Null
Onegu (legit has done 0 things)
Mr. Wiggles (seems resolute in looking at unturned stones, could just be blending but seems ok(?) Asked me to look into one of the T guys (tube?) but he didn't look bad in his filter at all so dropped to null)
WaveofShadow I want to believe Wave has a lack of emotion but he's done this exact thing of lurking and feigning before. I'd find it hard to motivate myself if I rolled mafia in this big game after a massive break like him too He hasn't got anything to go on really. Scummy just appearing.
Ace (Really has achieved not much. Voted me for mayor which is a big + and the things he says aren't not-towny in a vacuum but until he reaches a conclusion and votes not a placeholder for lynch there's really nothing to go on. Has weird posts in relation to BH when he hasn't really commented on much of the game apart from that)
Oatsmaster (don't hate his new direction - which is still seemingly every direction - but he's digging at least)
Tictock (This would absolutely be in the lower categories if it wasn't for his big appeal to emotion post against me which I have a big weakness for. I don't like that he decided to do the catch up style this game. He misses questions aimed towards him, gave up the style and ignored the pages in between. His logic has been wonky on a lot of people's posts and he seems to make a determined decision on someone's alignment and then make a narrative without weighing up both sides. But that AtE post though....)
ExO_ When reading through the thread there was a discussion that exo was present for and he kept asking random questions and not really interacting with it and I voted him for it. Upon reading his filter I got a completely different clean impression so he's in a null placeholder until I re-read that whole time he was in thread.
Scum-ish
Tumblewood (looks very low effort, may be mistaken on this though but it's a lot of questions that don't end up much of anywhere and lots of seemingly sentiment following on mayor lynches)
Trfel (Feel disgusting doing this (putting him in null) after he scum reads sentinel for something that happened almost 72 hours ago but I don't think he says he doesn't think Oats is posting like mafia and then backtracks and votes for him as mafia. That seems like something he'd be too self conscious to do. But then he says things like "oats (pressure vote)" as if he never meant it so this started as null but it's actually now scum-ish)
Acrofales (This dude has looked scummy quite a lot. First was when he said he was sheeping Palmar because he trusted him more to find scum while scum reading the person I wanted to lynch. Then he said I didn't look that great because I was scum reading Oats for bad reasons and then he made a list of why Oats was scum which was entirely made up of my reasons. Then I said I scum read rayn and he said he doesn't scum read rayn. When Palmar came with a bs reason to scum read rayn Acro basically reneged on his plan to vote me because he agreed that Rayn looked like mafia when nothing from rayn had happened in between. Every time I think about these occurrences it makes me want to drop him down further. Don't ask me why I don't. He has ok looking breakthroughs every now and again)
raynpelikoneet Talked through me. Ignroed rsoultin. Disappeared and reappeared to appeal to me and vote palmar/(think he disliked acro too). Conflicted heavily at the moment.
Scum
Blazinghand (No RNG, no posts of content. Just doing whatever to seem like the good towny martyr. I think I've seen him do this exact play before as mafia.)
Mocsta (This dude, does anyone know where his head is at? I sure don't. He +1s my post scum reading Palmar, gets in a shit show with Palmar and then somehow bows down to him after having a meltdown like 2.4 seconds before over Palmar's really weak Conversion read????????????? Just read his filter progression with me and Palmar and be prepared to go "What?")
Palmar - (wishy washy Iamp post, wishy washy Acro post. I call him out that he has no solid scum reads and he has to hunker down and scum read someone. Defaults to Sentinel still, can't see any motivation from sentinel other than scum motivation. He then makes some bs analysis of the wagons acknowledging that his wagon is the most scum motivated one to follow but doesn't use that to reevaluate anything and doesn't question which of the people on the wagon are scummy. He defends Pandain who has literally posted nothing but coaching.
Makes a movement for Rayn to be mafia based on Rayn's activity which hasn't meant anything since a long time now. Doesn't even get what Rayn said correct.
Doesn't even know what Damdred/Rsoul posted about LS. Not interested in figuring out game, instead tried to use others to prove his point.
Wants to vote Conversion because Conversion was lazy but attributes it to mafia motivation instead of just someone being lazy. That's the crux of his entire read. Fakes some floundering on it when Conversion posts some irl excuse, seems pretty forced.
After nothing in between Conversion drops off max scum vote list and is replaced with lurker and policy lynch. Not great at all.)
LightningStrike (No scum reads. Only mentioned MZ once or twice but never really actually said anything about him of substance. Rage quit from the thread but still votes and still afks in the background. He finds it really hard to write scum reads as scum because it's against his nature. He hasn't done the characteristic "these two are fighting so one of them is mafia" post that he always does as town. He hasn't really given anything to go on. Rage seemed forced. He's fucking voting Palmar, jeeeeezzuusss.)
Chezinu (This is without reading his filter and just off memory alone. He does not seem to be having fun, his RP posts are quite devoid of anything entertaining. He's been trying to determine if I'm blue. He has been actually posting reads and being serious which is a complete juxtaposition to any time I've ever ever seen Chezinu been town (or really mafia either) but from what I can see there seems to be agenda in Chez. I will update this on actually reading him because I can't remember a single one of his reads.
Now you may look at this and go “wtf why choose this post” However look at it. His confirmed 100% town were both capped and flipped green but one of his strongest scum reads and heavily leaned scum reads both flipped town. Meaning the only place he has been correct is where he places town reads. 1 of which he had a read on 100% before the player posted. Seems super fucking fishy.
She was on my radar day 1 as well. This shouldn't be a surprise.
1) She makes posts like this
On March 02 2019 20:35 rsoultin wrote: Like for me it breaks down like this:
You've got trolling people. You've got lurking people. You've got lazy people. You've got some overly aggressives that aren't giving me warm fuzzies (MP). You've got people I'm not sure about who when I'm not sure about them have a nasty habit of being scum (Rayn) but because he's burned me so often I'm not sure if that's not where the uncertainty's coming from.
And then you have seemingly excited to play, I respect the shit out of his intelligence Chez playing but not saying anything interesting. That first group can hide a lot of bad town play. But doing something without doing anything ticks off my scum meter to a higher degree.
Now what gets me from this is the characterization that Chez wasn't saying anything interesting. He was roleplaying sure, but he also had a string of very useful posts that weren't roleplay at all. As someone who dislikes lazy people, and trolling people perhaps doing a proper analysis of someones posting history to that point would you know? Non hypocritical.
On March 02 2019 20:58 rsoultin wrote: What are your reads that don't matter BC?
This was another read flag for me. A read that doesn't matter? Why would you ever want someone to actively give you information that is useless? Anyone can give a read but to provide no substance or reasoning for it is just useless and scummy. Asking for that info is just as bad.
Now the next things for me are this.
Chez is her #1 scum read. Rather than heavily pushing this (will admit she made an analysis post on him) She then waffles off wanting to off him (no real reason I could spot) then starts randomly sheeping other peoples reads
On March 03 2019 20:12 Palmar wrote: To be fair I mostly like Acro just for these two posts. They're the logical way to play the game.
Kill the policy lynch, continue playing.
On March 03 2019 17:09 Acrofales wrote: Enters Palmar: he claims to feel strongly about killing sent. So let him do it. All you need to decide is if Palmar is townie enough. But if we decide Palmar is townie enough to be mayor then he is free to kill whoever he likes. He sticks with sentinel and sentinel flips scum? We win, yay! Sheep Palmar into Armageddon. Sentinel flips town? We figure out if Palmars policy lynch is an ideological thing or a scum thing. Either way, we get information about Palmar out of this, which is a great thing to get out of D1.
On March 03 2019 17:11 Acrofales wrote: Oh, also, if sent was actually playing and being townie, I'd be more inclined to want him to live. But he has used this "foil" to be an attention whore and cop out of doing anything else so far. Not town play.
@Palmar, let's assume Acro is the leading lynch candidate but your vote could choose somebody else to lynch. Who would you lynch instead of Acro, that isn't Sent?
Palmar's entire post history seems to be super focused on this policy lynch of Sent -- that's it. Town Reads HF, Town Reads Acro. He's not wanting to scum hunt on day 1, but go all in on a policy lynch. I don't think I mind having a strong conviction about the policy lynch, but I think I do mind only green reading other people and only pushing your one policy lynch.
I think Palmar is scum.
I like Rayn's read on Palmar, ironically, cause I think they're both scum.
Palmar not playing on a weekend is Palmar-y. Palmar playing is Palmar-y. This half and half stuff I wouldn't trust with a 10-foot pole and I hate how much support he's gotten. I also hate that some of that is probably from shit town who just see the shiny name and go oh, Palmar, he's a god, let's check our brains at the door.
-cocks head at- So you've decided to play rather than whine about people saying a person who was only posting images was a good vig target?
So this post just makes me want to facepalm. Why? Because she basically just said because its Palmar hes mafia. Because he has any support hes mafia. More important she is bothered by the name he has and blames shit town for trying to vote him into the slot of mayor. Now we know that Palmar flipped town. So those people that voted for him clearly arent as shit as this read of hers is. Next thing with this is she doesn't decide to hard push her own reads instead she SHEEPS unto the BH bandwagon. The thing that gets me about this is this. SHE SAYS SHE THINKS HE IS TOWN AND STILL WANTS TO LYNCH HIM.
Why the fuck do you ever want to kill a town read? Like seriously. Why would you lynch someone you believe to be town. She has scumreads for fucks sake. Was active enough to push them. Instead lets push a town read for information because the potential information is better than offing a scum. Jesus fuck.
On March 06 2019 04:01 rsoultin wrote: Also, for the record, though I'm mocking the auto-lynch mindset perpetuated by people who can't think for themselves, a BH flip is still best for everyone and 100% should be facilitated before day phase so the idiots can have a chance to check their idiocy. Not that I'm holding my breath.
You want to lynch someone you think is town...,.......................... .
Yes that's what this post clearly meant good job proving why it's pointless for me to explain reads with this level of reading comprehension floating around the thread.
I just see things so scummy sometimes that I stare at my phone in disbelief.
You suggesting to lynch someone that is town to help clear the air is either scum motivated at best and at worst idiotic.
l2r
That post imo also sheds potential like on Iamp being killed. To my reading he was the only one to call her out for it..
This is mainly from a filter dive. Everything in it screams of someone coming in and skirting activity while posting nothing of substance. Hell he never comes into the thread and express a real reason or read to his vote on Trfel. Just sheeped onto it like nothing ever happened. Hell the only real time Tumblewood even expressed a read on Trfel it was a town read. So he sheeped a wagon to off a person he believed was town. Again, no fucking reason to do this ever. Clearly red.
Shocker I know right? The guy literally led us down a wrong path all fucking game. He has lied by his own admission multiple times. He claimed he would mayor lynch Sentinel, then Palmar. Said he wasn't serious on the Palmar lynch, then says he lies a few hours before deadline and offs Palmar who flips backup cop. He said he shot BH then claimed that he only did so to create tension in the thread. However his outrage about the game being full of blues seems one that an angry mafia could make. The other thing that gets me about his lying is he claims that he couldnt change his mayor vote because it was locked in while being insanely active right at the time the lynch was happening so could have changed it had he wished but claimed
On March 05 2019 09:41 Holyflare wrote: for the record if I knew bh was not getting lynched I would have absolutely switched it to him but it was already locked in
how is it locked in ?
that makes no sense you could have changed
I don't think so? I PMd it saying lynch palmar a long time ago when it was called for in the thread and when the deadline came I was told it was palmar selected. Didn't really get given any other opportunity but it is what it is.
Unless things have drastically changed since I played this game. If you had any action you could take whatsoever you could change it more than once before a deadline hit. So if this has changed feel free to correct me but until then this is a straight up fucking lie.
Next few thing that gets me however that stood out after a filter dive is this.
On March 04 2019 00:55 rsoultin wrote: The whole thing where LS's only 'scumread' out of 34 other people is MZ, and then he wants to kill Koshi screams to me of a Koshi that rolled scum and told his buddies to just lynch him.
If LS flips scum, MZ probably is scum, too, so that's three right there.
On March 04 2019 00:55 rsoultin wrote: The whole thing where LS's only 'scumread' out of 34 other people is MZ, and then he wants to kill Koshi screams to me of a Koshi that rolled scum and told his buddies to just lynch him.
If LS flips scum, MZ probably is scum, too, so that's three right there.
Koshi is confirmed town though so it's ok.
HOW THE FUCK IS HE CONFIRMED TOWN? HE NEVER FUCKING POSTED THIS ENTIRE GAME?
On March 04 2019 00:58 Holyflare wrote: Magic LightningStrike, magic
This exchange right here. How if a player who hasn't posted at that point in time even remotely close to being considered confirmed town? The only way that you would know this is if you actually knew his alignment.
Another gem. To discredit Palmar he uses this as one of his reasons to discredit him.
Can you really trust Palmar as mayor when he's not even top 7?
Bashing a player based on stats out of game rather than in game play? If you honestly believe (based on stats) that you are a better player than someone why do you need to bring that up as your reason? Should be good enough to win an election based on pure skill.
On March 05 2019 08:23 Holyflare wrote: Arbitrary list. Please tell me which of the ones I haven't read should be read asap. Bit annoying the bottom half of the player list has a lot of scummy people to read. I cba writing anymore so close to deadline.
tubesock (Could be wrong on him but his filter seems clean and he's making his own conclusions (albeit just on trfel, but trfel is the new flavour of the month and he was first so looks ok)
Fecalfeast (Don't hate anything he's said. In fact on page 2 of his filter everything he says there kind of aligns with what I've been thinking. His vote platform seems carefree and like he doesn't really give a shit, just wants to do his own thing. Very acro focused but not in an awful way. Content seems minimal though so he's not up at town.
Null
Onegu (legit has done 0 things)
Mr. Wiggles (seems resolute in looking at unturned stones, could just be blending but seems ok(?) Asked me to look into one of the T guys (tube?) but he didn't look bad in his filter at all so dropped to null)
WaveofShadow I want to believe Wave has a lack of emotion but he's done this exact thing of lurking and feigning before. I'd find it hard to motivate myself if I rolled mafia in this big game after a massive break like him too He hasn't got anything to go on really. Scummy just appearing.
Ace (Really has achieved not much. Voted me for mayor which is a big + and the things he says aren't not-towny in a vacuum but until he reaches a conclusion and votes not a placeholder for lynch there's really nothing to go on. Has weird posts in relation to BH when he hasn't really commented on much of the game apart from that)
Oatsmaster (don't hate his new direction - which is still seemingly every direction - but he's digging at least)
Tictock (This would absolutely be in the lower categories if it wasn't for his big appeal to emotion post against me which I have a big weakness for. I don't like that he decided to do the catch up style this game. He misses questions aimed towards him, gave up the style and ignored the pages in between. His logic has been wonky on a lot of people's posts and he seems to make a determined decision on someone's alignment and then make a narrative without weighing up both sides. But that AtE post though....)
ExO_ When reading through the thread there was a discussion that exo was present for and he kept asking random questions and not really interacting with it and I voted him for it. Upon reading his filter I got a completely different clean impression so he's in a null placeholder until I re-read that whole time he was in thread.
Scum-ish
Tumblewood (looks very low effort, may be mistaken on this though but it's a lot of questions that don't end up much of anywhere and lots of seemingly sentiment following on mayor lynches)
Trfel (Feel disgusting doing this (putting him in null) after he scum reads sentinel for something that happened almost 72 hours ago but I don't think he says he doesn't think Oats is posting like mafia and then backtracks and votes for him as mafia. That seems like something he'd be too self conscious to do. But then he says things like "oats (pressure vote)" as if he never meant it so this started as null but it's actually now scum-ish)
Acrofales (This dude has looked scummy quite a lot. First was when he said he was sheeping Palmar because he trusted him more to find scum while scum reading the person I wanted to lynch. Then he said I didn't look that great because I was scum reading Oats for bad reasons and then he made a list of why Oats was scum which was entirely made up of my reasons. Then I said I scum read rayn and he said he doesn't scum read rayn. When Palmar came with a bs reason to scum read rayn Acro basically reneged on his plan to vote me because he agreed that Rayn looked like mafia when nothing from rayn had happened in between. Every time I think about these occurrences it makes me want to drop him down further. Don't ask me why I don't. He has ok looking breakthroughs every now and again)
raynpelikoneet Talked through me. Ignroed rsoultin. Disappeared and reappeared to appeal to me and vote palmar/(think he disliked acro too). Conflicted heavily at the moment.
Scum
Blazinghand (No RNG, no posts of content. Just doing whatever to seem like the good towny martyr. I think I've seen him do this exact play before as mafia.)
Mocsta (This dude, does anyone know where his head is at? I sure don't. He +1s my post scum reading Palmar, gets in a shit show with Palmar and then somehow bows down to him after having a meltdown like 2.4 seconds before over Palmar's really weak Conversion read????????????? Just read his filter progression with me and Palmar and be prepared to go "What?")
Palmar - (wishy washy Iamp post, wishy washy Acro post. I call him out that he has no solid scum reads and he has to hunker down and scum read someone. Defaults to Sentinel still, can't see any motivation from sentinel other than scum motivation. He then makes some bs analysis of the wagons acknowledging that his wagon is the most scum motivated one to follow but doesn't use that to reevaluate anything and doesn't question which of the people on the wagon are scummy. He defends Pandain who has literally posted nothing but coaching.
Makes a movement for Rayn to be mafia based on Rayn's activity which hasn't meant anything since a long time now. Doesn't even get what Rayn said correct.
Doesn't even know what Damdred/Rsoul posted about LS. Not interested in figuring out game, instead tried to use others to prove his point.
Wants to vote Conversion because Conversion was lazy but attributes it to mafia motivation instead of just someone being lazy. That's the crux of his entire read. Fakes some floundering on it when Conversion posts some irl excuse, seems pretty forced.
After nothing in between Conversion drops off max scum vote list and is replaced with lurker and policy lynch. Not great at all.)
LightningStrike (No scum reads. Only mentioned MZ once or twice but never really actually said anything about him of substance. Rage quit from the thread but still votes and still afks in the background. He finds it really hard to write scum reads as scum because it's against his nature. He hasn't done the characteristic "these two are fighting so one of them is mafia" post that he always does as town. He hasn't really given anything to go on. Rage seemed forced. He's fucking voting Palmar, jeeeeezzuusss.)
Chezinu (This is without reading his filter and just off memory alone. He does not seem to be having fun, his RP posts are quite devoid of anything entertaining. He's been trying to determine if I'm blue. He has been actually posting reads and being serious which is a complete juxtaposition to any time I've ever ever seen Chezinu been town (or really mafia either) but from what I can see there seems to be agenda in Chez. I will update this on actually reading him because I can't remember a single one of his reads.
Now you may look at this and go “wtf why choose this post” However look at it. His confirmed 100% town were both capped and flipped green but one of his strongest scum reads and heavily leaned scum reads both flipped town. Meaning the only place he has been correct is where he places town reads. 1 of which he had a read on 100% before the player posted. Seems super fucking fishy.
She was on my radar day 1 as well. This shouldn't be a surprise.
1) She makes posts like this
On March 02 2019 20:35 rsoultin wrote: Like for me it breaks down like this:
You've got trolling people. You've got lurking people. You've got lazy people. You've got some overly aggressives that aren't giving me warm fuzzies (MP). You've got people I'm not sure about who when I'm not sure about them have a nasty habit of being scum (Rayn) but because he's burned me so often I'm not sure if that's not where the uncertainty's coming from.
And then you have seemingly excited to play, I respect the shit out of his intelligence Chez playing but not saying anything interesting. That first group can hide a lot of bad town play. But doing something without doing anything ticks off my scum meter to a higher degree.
Now what gets me from this is the characterization that Chez wasn't saying anything interesting. He was roleplaying sure, but he also had a string of very useful posts that weren't roleplay at all. As someone who dislikes lazy people, and trolling people perhaps doing a proper analysis of someones posting history to that point would you know? Non hypocritical.
On March 02 2019 20:58 rsoultin wrote: What are your reads that don't matter BC?
This was another read flag for me. A read that doesn't matter? Why would you ever want someone to actively give you information that is useless? Anyone can give a read but to provide no substance or reasoning for it is just useless and scummy. Asking for that info is just as bad.
Now the next things for me are this.
Chez is her #1 scum read. Rather than heavily pushing this (will admit she made an analysis post on him) She then waffles off wanting to off him (no real reason I could spot) then starts randomly sheeping other peoples reads
On March 03 2019 20:12 Palmar wrote: To be fair I mostly like Acro just for these two posts. They're the logical way to play the game.
Kill the policy lynch, continue playing.
On March 03 2019 17:09 Acrofales wrote: Enters Palmar: he claims to feel strongly about killing sent. So let him do it. All you need to decide is if Palmar is townie enough. But if we decide Palmar is townie enough to be mayor then he is free to kill whoever he likes. He sticks with sentinel and sentinel flips scum? We win, yay! Sheep Palmar into Armageddon. Sentinel flips town? We figure out if Palmars policy lynch is an ideological thing or a scum thing. Either way, we get information about Palmar out of this, which is a great thing to get out of D1.
On March 03 2019 17:11 Acrofales wrote: Oh, also, if sent was actually playing and being townie, I'd be more inclined to want him to live. But he has used this "foil" to be an attention whore and cop out of doing anything else so far. Not town play.
@Palmar, let's assume Acro is the leading lynch candidate but your vote could choose somebody else to lynch. Who would you lynch instead of Acro, that isn't Sent?
Palmar's entire post history seems to be super focused on this policy lynch of Sent -- that's it. Town Reads HF, Town Reads Acro. He's not wanting to scum hunt on day 1, but go all in on a policy lynch. I don't think I mind having a strong conviction about the policy lynch, but I think I do mind only green reading other people and only pushing your one policy lynch.
I think Palmar is scum.
I like Rayn's read on Palmar, ironically, cause I think they're both scum.
Palmar not playing on a weekend is Palmar-y. Palmar playing is Palmar-y. This half and half stuff I wouldn't trust with a 10-foot pole and I hate how much support he's gotten. I also hate that some of that is probably from shit town who just see the shiny name and go oh, Palmar, he's a god, let's check our brains at the door.
-cocks head at- So you've decided to play rather than whine about people saying a person who was only posting images was a good vig target?
So this post just makes me want to facepalm. Why? Because she basically just said because its Palmar hes mafia. Because he has any support hes mafia. More important she is bothered by the name he has and blames shit town for trying to vote him into the slot of mayor. Now we know that Palmar flipped town. So those people that voted for him clearly arent as shit as this read of hers is. Next thing with this is she doesn't decide to hard push her own reads instead she SHEEPS unto the BH bandwagon. The thing that gets me about this is this. SHE SAYS SHE THINKS HE IS TOWN AND STILL WANTS TO LYNCH HIM.
Why the fuck do you ever want to kill a town read? Like seriously. Why would you lynch someone you believe to be town. She has scumreads for fucks sake. Was active enough to push them. Instead lets push a town read for information because the potential information is better than offing a scum. Jesus fuck.
On March 06 2019 04:01 rsoultin wrote: Also, for the record, though I'm mocking the auto-lynch mindset perpetuated by people who can't think for themselves, a BH flip is still best for everyone and 100% should be facilitated before day phase so the idiots can have a chance to check their idiocy. Not that I'm holding my breath.
You want to lynch someone you think is town...,.......................... .
Yes that's what this post clearly meant good job proving why it's pointless for me to explain reads with this level of reading comprehension floating around the thread.
I just see things so scummy sometimes that I stare at my phone in disbelief.
You suggesting to lynch someone that is town to help clear the air is either scum motivated at best and at worst idiotic.
l2r
That post imo also sheds potential like on Iamp being killed. To my reading he was the only one to call her out for it..
This is mainly from a filter dive. Everything in it screams of someone coming in and skirting activity while posting nothing of substance. Hell he never comes into the thread and express a real reason or read to his vote on Trfel. Just sheeped onto it like nothing ever happened. Hell the only real time Tumblewood even expressed a read on Trfel it was a town read. So he sheeped a wagon to off a person he believed was town. Again, no fucking reason to do this ever. Clearly red.
This is quite possibly the worst narrative post I've ever read lol. You were less likely to get lynched before even posting this :D
Oh come now. Acro's case on me was pretty bad too \o/
Just because I don't want to kill you today doesn't mean you aren't scum.
Also, nice soft defend of your teammate who is bussing you!
Shocker I know right? The guy literally led us down a wrong path all fucking game. He has lied by his own admission multiple times. He claimed he would mayor lynch Sentinel, then Palmar. Said he wasn't serious on the Palmar lynch, then says he lies a few hours before deadline and offs Palmar who flips backup cop. He said he shot BH then claimed that he only did so to create tension in the thread. However his outrage about the game being full of blues seems one that an angry mafia could make. The other thing that gets me about his lying is he claims that he couldnt change his mayor vote because it was locked in while being insanely active right at the time the lynch was happening so could have changed it had he wished but claimed
On March 05 2019 09:41 Holyflare wrote: for the record if I knew bh was not getting lynched I would have absolutely switched it to him but it was already locked in
how is it locked in ?
that makes no sense you could have changed
I don't think so? I PMd it saying lynch palmar a long time ago when it was called for in the thread and when the deadline came I was told it was palmar selected. Didn't really get given any other opportunity but it is what it is.
Unless things have drastically changed since I played this game. If you had any action you could take whatsoever you could change it more than once before a deadline hit. So if this has changed feel free to correct me but until then this is a straight up fucking lie.
Next few thing that gets me however that stood out after a filter dive is this.
On March 04 2019 00:55 rsoultin wrote: The whole thing where LS's only 'scumread' out of 34 other people is MZ, and then he wants to kill Koshi screams to me of a Koshi that rolled scum and told his buddies to just lynch him.
If LS flips scum, MZ probably is scum, too, so that's three right there.
On March 04 2019 00:55 rsoultin wrote: The whole thing where LS's only 'scumread' out of 34 other people is MZ, and then he wants to kill Koshi screams to me of a Koshi that rolled scum and told his buddies to just lynch him.
If LS flips scum, MZ probably is scum, too, so that's three right there.
Koshi is confirmed town though so it's ok.
HOW THE FUCK IS HE CONFIRMED TOWN? HE NEVER FUCKING POSTED THIS ENTIRE GAME?
On March 04 2019 00:58 Holyflare wrote: Magic LightningStrike, magic
This exchange right here. How if a player who hasn't posted at that point in time even remotely close to being considered confirmed town? The only way that you would know this is if you actually knew his alignment.
Another gem. To discredit Palmar he uses this as one of his reasons to discredit him.
Can you really trust Palmar as mayor when he's not even top 7?
Bashing a player based on stats out of game rather than in game play? If you honestly believe (based on stats) that you are a better player than someone why do you need to bring that up as your reason? Should be good enough to win an election based on pure skill.
On March 05 2019 08:23 Holyflare wrote: Arbitrary list. Please tell me which of the ones I haven't read should be read asap. Bit annoying the bottom half of the player list has a lot of scummy people to read. I cba writing anymore so close to deadline.
tubesock (Could be wrong on him but his filter seems clean and he's making his own conclusions (albeit just on trfel, but trfel is the new flavour of the month and he was first so looks ok)
Fecalfeast (Don't hate anything he's said. In fact on page 2 of his filter everything he says there kind of aligns with what I've been thinking. His vote platform seems carefree and like he doesn't really give a shit, just wants to do his own thing. Very acro focused but not in an awful way. Content seems minimal though so he's not up at town.
Null
Onegu (legit has done 0 things)
Mr. Wiggles (seems resolute in looking at unturned stones, could just be blending but seems ok(?) Asked me to look into one of the T guys (tube?) but he didn't look bad in his filter at all so dropped to null)
WaveofShadow I want to believe Wave has a lack of emotion but he's done this exact thing of lurking and feigning before. I'd find it hard to motivate myself if I rolled mafia in this big game after a massive break like him too He hasn't got anything to go on really. Scummy just appearing.
Ace (Really has achieved not much. Voted me for mayor which is a big + and the things he says aren't not-towny in a vacuum but until he reaches a conclusion and votes not a placeholder for lynch there's really nothing to go on. Has weird posts in relation to BH when he hasn't really commented on much of the game apart from that)
Oatsmaster (don't hate his new direction - which is still seemingly every direction - but he's digging at least)
Tictock (This would absolutely be in the lower categories if it wasn't for his big appeal to emotion post against me which I have a big weakness for. I don't like that he decided to do the catch up style this game. He misses questions aimed towards him, gave up the style and ignored the pages in between. His logic has been wonky on a lot of people's posts and he seems to make a determined decision on someone's alignment and then make a narrative without weighing up both sides. But that AtE post though....)
ExO_ When reading through the thread there was a discussion that exo was present for and he kept asking random questions and not really interacting with it and I voted him for it. Upon reading his filter I got a completely different clean impression so he's in a null placeholder until I re-read that whole time he was in thread.
Scum-ish
Tumblewood (looks very low effort, may be mistaken on this though but it's a lot of questions that don't end up much of anywhere and lots of seemingly sentiment following on mayor lynches)
Trfel (Feel disgusting doing this (putting him in null) after he scum reads sentinel for something that happened almost 72 hours ago but I don't think he says he doesn't think Oats is posting like mafia and then backtracks and votes for him as mafia. That seems like something he'd be too self conscious to do. But then he says things like "oats (pressure vote)" as if he never meant it so this started as null but it's actually now scum-ish)
Acrofales (This dude has looked scummy quite a lot. First was when he said he was sheeping Palmar because he trusted him more to find scum while scum reading the person I wanted to lynch. Then he said I didn't look that great because I was scum reading Oats for bad reasons and then he made a list of why Oats was scum which was entirely made up of my reasons. Then I said I scum read rayn and he said he doesn't scum read rayn. When Palmar came with a bs reason to scum read rayn Acro basically reneged on his plan to vote me because he agreed that Rayn looked like mafia when nothing from rayn had happened in between. Every time I think about these occurrences it makes me want to drop him down further. Don't ask me why I don't. He has ok looking breakthroughs every now and again)
raynpelikoneet Talked through me. Ignroed rsoultin. Disappeared and reappeared to appeal to me and vote palmar/(think he disliked acro too). Conflicted heavily at the moment.
Scum
Blazinghand (No RNG, no posts of content. Just doing whatever to seem like the good towny martyr. I think I've seen him do this exact play before as mafia.)
Mocsta (This dude, does anyone know where his head is at? I sure don't. He +1s my post scum reading Palmar, gets in a shit show with Palmar and then somehow bows down to him after having a meltdown like 2.4 seconds before over Palmar's really weak Conversion read????????????? Just read his filter progression with me and Palmar and be prepared to go "What?")
Palmar - (wishy washy Iamp post, wishy washy Acro post. I call him out that he has no solid scum reads and he has to hunker down and scum read someone. Defaults to Sentinel still, can't see any motivation from sentinel other than scum motivation. He then makes some bs analysis of the wagons acknowledging that his wagon is the most scum motivated one to follow but doesn't use that to reevaluate anything and doesn't question which of the people on the wagon are scummy. He defends Pandain who has literally posted nothing but coaching.
Makes a movement for Rayn to be mafia based on Rayn's activity which hasn't meant anything since a long time now. Doesn't even get what Rayn said correct.
Doesn't even know what Damdred/Rsoul posted about LS. Not interested in figuring out game, instead tried to use others to prove his point.
Wants to vote Conversion because Conversion was lazy but attributes it to mafia motivation instead of just someone being lazy. That's the crux of his entire read. Fakes some floundering on it when Conversion posts some irl excuse, seems pretty forced.
After nothing in between Conversion drops off max scum vote list and is replaced with lurker and policy lynch. Not great at all.)
LightningStrike (No scum reads. Only mentioned MZ once or twice but never really actually said anything about him of substance. Rage quit from the thread but still votes and still afks in the background. He finds it really hard to write scum reads as scum because it's against his nature. He hasn't done the characteristic "these two are fighting so one of them is mafia" post that he always does as town. He hasn't really given anything to go on. Rage seemed forced. He's fucking voting Palmar, jeeeeezzuusss.)
Chezinu (This is without reading his filter and just off memory alone. He does not seem to be having fun, his RP posts are quite devoid of anything entertaining. He's been trying to determine if I'm blue. He has been actually posting reads and being serious which is a complete juxtaposition to any time I've ever ever seen Chezinu been town (or really mafia either) but from what I can see there seems to be agenda in Chez. I will update this on actually reading him because I can't remember a single one of his reads.
Now you may look at this and go “wtf why choose this post” However look at it. His confirmed 100% town were both capped and flipped green but one of his strongest scum reads and heavily leaned scum reads both flipped town. Meaning the only place he has been correct is where he places town reads. 1 of which he had a read on 100% before the player posted. Seems super fucking fishy.
She was on my radar day 1 as well. This shouldn't be a surprise.
1) She makes posts like this
On March 02 2019 20:35 rsoultin wrote: Like for me it breaks down like this:
You've got trolling people. You've got lurking people. You've got lazy people. You've got some overly aggressives that aren't giving me warm fuzzies (MP). You've got people I'm not sure about who when I'm not sure about them have a nasty habit of being scum (Rayn) but because he's burned me so often I'm not sure if that's not where the uncertainty's coming from.
And then you have seemingly excited to play, I respect the shit out of his intelligence Chez playing but not saying anything interesting. That first group can hide a lot of bad town play. But doing something without doing anything ticks off my scum meter to a higher degree.
Now what gets me from this is the characterization that Chez wasn't saying anything interesting. He was roleplaying sure, but he also had a string of very useful posts that weren't roleplay at all. As someone who dislikes lazy people, and trolling people perhaps doing a proper analysis of someones posting history to that point would you know? Non hypocritical.
On March 02 2019 20:58 rsoultin wrote: What are your reads that don't matter BC?
This was another read flag for me. A read that doesn't matter? Why would you ever want someone to actively give you information that is useless? Anyone can give a read but to provide no substance or reasoning for it is just useless and scummy. Asking for that info is just as bad.
Now the next things for me are this.
Chez is her #1 scum read. Rather than heavily pushing this (will admit she made an analysis post on him) She then waffles off wanting to off him (no real reason I could spot) then starts randomly sheeping other peoples reads
On March 03 2019 20:12 Palmar wrote: To be fair I mostly like Acro just for these two posts. They're the logical way to play the game.
Kill the policy lynch, continue playing.
On March 03 2019 17:09 Acrofales wrote: Enters Palmar: he claims to feel strongly about killing sent. So let him do it. All you need to decide is if Palmar is townie enough. But if we decide Palmar is townie enough to be mayor then he is free to kill whoever he likes. He sticks with sentinel and sentinel flips scum? We win, yay! Sheep Palmar into Armageddon. Sentinel flips town? We figure out if Palmars policy lynch is an ideological thing or a scum thing. Either way, we get information about Palmar out of this, which is a great thing to get out of D1.
On March 03 2019 17:11 Acrofales wrote: Oh, also, if sent was actually playing and being townie, I'd be more inclined to want him to live. But he has used this "foil" to be an attention whore and cop out of doing anything else so far. Not town play.
@Palmar, let's assume Acro is the leading lynch candidate but your vote could choose somebody else to lynch. Who would you lynch instead of Acro, that isn't Sent?
Palmar's entire post history seems to be super focused on this policy lynch of Sent -- that's it. Town Reads HF, Town Reads Acro. He's not wanting to scum hunt on day 1, but go all in on a policy lynch. I don't think I mind having a strong conviction about the policy lynch, but I think I do mind only green reading other people and only pushing your one policy lynch.
I think Palmar is scum.
I like Rayn's read on Palmar, ironically, cause I think they're both scum.
Palmar not playing on a weekend is Palmar-y. Palmar playing is Palmar-y. This half and half stuff I wouldn't trust with a 10-foot pole and I hate how much support he's gotten. I also hate that some of that is probably from shit town who just see the shiny name and go oh, Palmar, he's a god, let's check our brains at the door.
-cocks head at- So you've decided to play rather than whine about people saying a person who was only posting images was a good vig target?
So this post just makes me want to facepalm. Why? Because she basically just said because its Palmar hes mafia. Because he has any support hes mafia. More important she is bothered by the name he has and blames shit town for trying to vote him into the slot of mayor. Now we know that Palmar flipped town. So those people that voted for him clearly arent as shit as this read of hers is. Next thing with this is she doesn't decide to hard push her own reads instead she SHEEPS unto the BH bandwagon. The thing that gets me about this is this. SHE SAYS SHE THINKS HE IS TOWN AND STILL WANTS TO LYNCH HIM.
Why the fuck do you ever want to kill a town read? Like seriously. Why would you lynch someone you believe to be town. She has scumreads for fucks sake. Was active enough to push them. Instead lets push a town read for information because the potential information is better than offing a scum. Jesus fuck.
On March 06 2019 04:01 rsoultin wrote: Also, for the record, though I'm mocking the auto-lynch mindset perpetuated by people who can't think for themselves, a BH flip is still best for everyone and 100% should be facilitated before day phase so the idiots can have a chance to check their idiocy. Not that I'm holding my breath.
You want to lynch someone you think is town...,.......................... .
Yes that's what this post clearly meant good job proving why it's pointless for me to explain reads with this level of reading comprehension floating around the thread.
I just see things so scummy sometimes that I stare at my phone in disbelief.
You suggesting to lynch someone that is town to help clear the air is either scum motivated at best and at worst idiotic.
l2r
That post imo also sheds potential like on Iamp being killed. To my reading he was the only one to call her out for it..
This is mainly from a filter dive. Everything in it screams of someone coming in and skirting activity while posting nothing of substance. Hell he never comes into the thread and express a real reason or read to his vote on Trfel. Just sheeped onto it like nothing ever happened. Hell the only real time Tumblewood even expressed a read on Trfel it was a town read. So he sheeped a wagon to off a person he believed was town. Again, no fucking reason to do this ever. Clearly red.
This is quite possibly the worst narrative post I've ever read lol. You were less likely to get lynched before even posting this :D
Oh come now. Acro's case on me was pretty bad too \o/
Just because I don't want to kill you today doesn't mean you aren't scum.
Also, nice soft defend of your teammate who is bussing you!
My role pm means I'm not scum. That and my awesomeness ^^
Who am I defending now?
BC.
HF called him scum for a terrible case. You then implied it wasn't that bad. Sheltering BC from HF's wrath.
Why did you guys bring the whole scumQT over to the thread? This is confusing me.
On March 06 2019 17:57 Holyflare wrote: Anyone that cares.
1) I'll show you post game how the cycle ended so that can be cleared up instantly.
2) BC conveniently leaves out the point about koshi being confirmed by mod confirmation. I started to not believe it eventually but then Koshi played and looked towny anyway. This is cherry picking at its finest lol.
3) I mean Palmar is still not top 7
4) Obviously this was updated by the fact I didn't want to lynch trfel over BH when I thought trfel looked not awful at deadline? Being wrong doesn't mean I'm mafia and neither does having good town reads, which is what I do better than finding mafia.
Trust me, if I abandoned somebody it would be Koshi.
Well at least he's confirmed town now
This?!
Thanks for pointing it out. I don't understand the jump unless you already know koshi is town. I thought it was a joke being returned at Kita. But you were serious? TMI shining through.
Add it to the many small reasons you a re mafia and we really need to kill you.
Shocker I know right? The guy literally led us down a wrong path all fucking game. He has lied by his own admission multiple times. He claimed he would mayor lynch Sentinel, then Palmar. Said he wasn't serious on the Palmar lynch, then says he lies a few hours before deadline and offs Palmar who flips backup cop. He said he shot BH then claimed that he only did so to create tension in the thread. However his outrage about the game being full of blues seems one that an angry mafia could make. The other thing that gets me about his lying is he claims that he couldnt change his mayor vote because it was locked in while being insanely active right at the time the lynch was happening so could have changed it had he wished but claimed
On March 05 2019 09:41 Holyflare wrote: for the record if I knew bh was not getting lynched I would have absolutely switched it to him but it was already locked in
how is it locked in ?
that makes no sense you could have changed
I don't think so? I PMd it saying lynch palmar a long time ago when it was called for in the thread and when the deadline came I was told it was palmar selected. Didn't really get given any other opportunity but it is what it is.
Unless things have drastically changed since I played this game. If you had any action you could take whatsoever you could change it more than once before a deadline hit. So if this has changed feel free to correct me but until then this is a straight up fucking lie.
Next few thing that gets me however that stood out after a filter dive is this.
On March 04 2019 00:55 rsoultin wrote: The whole thing where LS's only 'scumread' out of 34 other people is MZ, and then he wants to kill Koshi screams to me of a Koshi that rolled scum and told his buddies to just lynch him.
If LS flips scum, MZ probably is scum, too, so that's three right there.
On March 04 2019 00:55 rsoultin wrote: The whole thing where LS's only 'scumread' out of 34 other people is MZ, and then he wants to kill Koshi screams to me of a Koshi that rolled scum and told his buddies to just lynch him.
If LS flips scum, MZ probably is scum, too, so that's three right there.
Koshi is confirmed town though so it's ok.
HOW THE FUCK IS HE CONFIRMED TOWN? HE NEVER FUCKING POSTED THIS ENTIRE GAME?
On March 04 2019 00:58 Holyflare wrote: Magic LightningStrike, magic
This exchange right here. How if a player who hasn't posted at that point in time even remotely close to being considered confirmed town? The only way that you would know this is if you actually knew his alignment.
Another gem. To discredit Palmar he uses this as one of his reasons to discredit him.
Can you really trust Palmar as mayor when he's not even top 7?
Bashing a player based on stats out of game rather than in game play? If you honestly believe (based on stats) that you are a better player than someone why do you need to bring that up as your reason? Should be good enough to win an election based on pure skill.
On March 05 2019 08:23 Holyflare wrote: Arbitrary list. Please tell me which of the ones I haven't read should be read asap. Bit annoying the bottom half of the player list has a lot of scummy people to read. I cba writing anymore so close to deadline.
tubesock (Could be wrong on him but his filter seems clean and he's making his own conclusions (albeit just on trfel, but trfel is the new flavour of the month and he was first so looks ok)
Fecalfeast (Don't hate anything he's said. In fact on page 2 of his filter everything he says there kind of aligns with what I've been thinking. His vote platform seems carefree and like he doesn't really give a shit, just wants to do his own thing. Very acro focused but not in an awful way. Content seems minimal though so he's not up at town.
Null
Onegu (legit has done 0 things)
Mr. Wiggles (seems resolute in looking at unturned stones, could just be blending but seems ok(?) Asked me to look into one of the T guys (tube?) but he didn't look bad in his filter at all so dropped to null)
WaveofShadow I want to believe Wave has a lack of emotion but he's done this exact thing of lurking and feigning before. I'd find it hard to motivate myself if I rolled mafia in this big game after a massive break like him too He hasn't got anything to go on really. Scummy just appearing.
Ace (Really has achieved not much. Voted me for mayor which is a big + and the things he says aren't not-towny in a vacuum but until he reaches a conclusion and votes not a placeholder for lynch there's really nothing to go on. Has weird posts in relation to BH when he hasn't really commented on much of the game apart from that)
Oatsmaster (don't hate his new direction - which is still seemingly every direction - but he's digging at least)
Tictock (This would absolutely be in the lower categories if it wasn't for his big appeal to emotion post against me which I have a big weakness for. I don't like that he decided to do the catch up style this game. He misses questions aimed towards him, gave up the style and ignored the pages in between. His logic has been wonky on a lot of people's posts and he seems to make a determined decision on someone's alignment and then make a narrative without weighing up both sides. But that AtE post though....)
ExO_ When reading through the thread there was a discussion that exo was present for and he kept asking random questions and not really interacting with it and I voted him for it. Upon reading his filter I got a completely different clean impression so he's in a null placeholder until I re-read that whole time he was in thread.
Scum-ish
Tumblewood (looks very low effort, may be mistaken on this though but it's a lot of questions that don't end up much of anywhere and lots of seemingly sentiment following on mayor lynches)
Trfel (Feel disgusting doing this (putting him in null) after he scum reads sentinel for something that happened almost 72 hours ago but I don't think he says he doesn't think Oats is posting like mafia and then backtracks and votes for him as mafia. That seems like something he'd be too self conscious to do. But then he says things like "oats (pressure vote)" as if he never meant it so this started as null but it's actually now scum-ish)
Acrofales (This dude has looked scummy quite a lot. First was when he said he was sheeping Palmar because he trusted him more to find scum while scum reading the person I wanted to lynch. Then he said I didn't look that great because I was scum reading Oats for bad reasons and then he made a list of why Oats was scum which was entirely made up of my reasons. Then I said I scum read rayn and he said he doesn't scum read rayn. When Palmar came with a bs reason to scum read rayn Acro basically reneged on his plan to vote me because he agreed that Rayn looked like mafia when nothing from rayn had happened in between. Every time I think about these occurrences it makes me want to drop him down further. Don't ask me why I don't. He has ok looking breakthroughs every now and again)
raynpelikoneet Talked through me. Ignroed rsoultin. Disappeared and reappeared to appeal to me and vote palmar/(think he disliked acro too). Conflicted heavily at the moment.
Scum
Blazinghand (No RNG, no posts of content. Just doing whatever to seem like the good towny martyr. I think I've seen him do this exact play before as mafia.)
Mocsta (This dude, does anyone know where his head is at? I sure don't. He +1s my post scum reading Palmar, gets in a shit show with Palmar and then somehow bows down to him after having a meltdown like 2.4 seconds before over Palmar's really weak Conversion read????????????? Just read his filter progression with me and Palmar and be prepared to go "What?")
Palmar - (wishy washy Iamp post, wishy washy Acro post. I call him out that he has no solid scum reads and he has to hunker down and scum read someone. Defaults to Sentinel still, can't see any motivation from sentinel other than scum motivation. He then makes some bs analysis of the wagons acknowledging that his wagon is the most scum motivated one to follow but doesn't use that to reevaluate anything and doesn't question which of the people on the wagon are scummy. He defends Pandain who has literally posted nothing but coaching.
Makes a movement for Rayn to be mafia based on Rayn's activity which hasn't meant anything since a long time now. Doesn't even get what Rayn said correct.
Doesn't even know what Damdred/Rsoul posted about LS. Not interested in figuring out game, instead tried to use others to prove his point.
Wants to vote Conversion because Conversion was lazy but attributes it to mafia motivation instead of just someone being lazy. That's the crux of his entire read. Fakes some floundering on it when Conversion posts some irl excuse, seems pretty forced.
After nothing in between Conversion drops off max scum vote list and is replaced with lurker and policy lynch. Not great at all.)
LightningStrike (No scum reads. Only mentioned MZ once or twice but never really actually said anything about him of substance. Rage quit from the thread but still votes and still afks in the background. He finds it really hard to write scum reads as scum because it's against his nature. He hasn't done the characteristic "these two are fighting so one of them is mafia" post that he always does as town. He hasn't really given anything to go on. Rage seemed forced. He's fucking voting Palmar, jeeeeezzuusss.)
Chezinu (This is without reading his filter and just off memory alone. He does not seem to be having fun, his RP posts are quite devoid of anything entertaining. He's been trying to determine if I'm blue. He has been actually posting reads and being serious which is a complete juxtaposition to any time I've ever ever seen Chezinu been town (or really mafia either) but from what I can see there seems to be agenda in Chez. I will update this on actually reading him because I can't remember a single one of his reads.
Now you may look at this and go “wtf why choose this post” However look at it. His confirmed 100% town were both capped and flipped green but one of his strongest scum reads and heavily leaned scum reads both flipped town. Meaning the only place he has been correct is where he places town reads. 1 of which he had a read on 100% before the player posted. Seems super fucking fishy.
She was on my radar day 1 as well. This shouldn't be a surprise.
1) She makes posts like this
On March 02 2019 20:35 rsoultin wrote: Like for me it breaks down like this:
You've got trolling people. You've got lurking people. You've got lazy people. You've got some overly aggressives that aren't giving me warm fuzzies (MP). You've got people I'm not sure about who when I'm not sure about them have a nasty habit of being scum (Rayn) but because he's burned me so often I'm not sure if that's not where the uncertainty's coming from.
And then you have seemingly excited to play, I respect the shit out of his intelligence Chez playing but not saying anything interesting. That first group can hide a lot of bad town play. But doing something without doing anything ticks off my scum meter to a higher degree.
Now what gets me from this is the characterization that Chez wasn't saying anything interesting. He was roleplaying sure, but he also had a string of very useful posts that weren't roleplay at all. As someone who dislikes lazy people, and trolling people perhaps doing a proper analysis of someones posting history to that point would you know? Non hypocritical.
On March 02 2019 20:58 rsoultin wrote: What are your reads that don't matter BC?
This was another read flag for me. A read that doesn't matter? Why would you ever want someone to actively give you information that is useless? Anyone can give a read but to provide no substance or reasoning for it is just useless and scummy. Asking for that info is just as bad.
Now the next things for me are this.
Chez is her #1 scum read. Rather than heavily pushing this (will admit she made an analysis post on him) She then waffles off wanting to off him (no real reason I could spot) then starts randomly sheeping other peoples reads
On March 03 2019 20:12 Palmar wrote: To be fair I mostly like Acro just for these two posts. They're the logical way to play the game.
Kill the policy lynch, continue playing.
On March 03 2019 17:09 Acrofales wrote: Enters Palmar: he claims to feel strongly about killing sent. So let him do it. All you need to decide is if Palmar is townie enough. But if we decide Palmar is townie enough to be mayor then he is free to kill whoever he likes. He sticks with sentinel and sentinel flips scum? We win, yay! Sheep Palmar into Armageddon. Sentinel flips town? We figure out if Palmars policy lynch is an ideological thing or a scum thing. Either way, we get information about Palmar out of this, which is a great thing to get out of D1.
On March 03 2019 17:11 Acrofales wrote: Oh, also, if sent was actually playing and being townie, I'd be more inclined to want him to live. But he has used this "foil" to be an attention whore and cop out of doing anything else so far. Not town play.
@Palmar, let's assume Acro is the leading lynch candidate but your vote could choose somebody else to lynch. Who would you lynch instead of Acro, that isn't Sent?
Palmar's entire post history seems to be super focused on this policy lynch of Sent -- that's it. Town Reads HF, Town Reads Acro. He's not wanting to scum hunt on day 1, but go all in on a policy lynch. I don't think I mind having a strong conviction about the policy lynch, but I think I do mind only green reading other people and only pushing your one policy lynch.
I think Palmar is scum.
I like Rayn's read on Palmar, ironically, cause I think they're both scum.
Palmar not playing on a weekend is Palmar-y. Palmar playing is Palmar-y. This half and half stuff I wouldn't trust with a 10-foot pole and I hate how much support he's gotten. I also hate that some of that is probably from shit town who just see the shiny name and go oh, Palmar, he's a god, let's check our brains at the door.
-cocks head at- So you've decided to play rather than whine about people saying a person who was only posting images was a good vig target?
So this post just makes me want to facepalm. Why? Because she basically just said because its Palmar hes mafia. Because he has any support hes mafia. More important she is bothered by the name he has and blames shit town for trying to vote him into the slot of mayor. Now we know that Palmar flipped town. So those people that voted for him clearly arent as shit as this read of hers is. Next thing with this is she doesn't decide to hard push her own reads instead she SHEEPS unto the BH bandwagon. The thing that gets me about this is this. SHE SAYS SHE THINKS HE IS TOWN AND STILL WANTS TO LYNCH HIM.
Why the fuck do you ever want to kill a town read? Like seriously. Why would you lynch someone you believe to be town. She has scumreads for fucks sake. Was active enough to push them. Instead lets push a town read for information because the potential information is better than offing a scum. Jesus fuck.
On March 06 2019 04:01 rsoultin wrote: Also, for the record, though I'm mocking the auto-lynch mindset perpetuated by people who can't think for themselves, a BH flip is still best for everyone and 100% should be facilitated before day phase so the idiots can have a chance to check their idiocy. Not that I'm holding my breath.
You want to lynch someone you think is town...,.......................... .
Yes that's what this post clearly meant good job proving why it's pointless for me to explain reads with this level of reading comprehension floating around the thread.
I just see things so scummy sometimes that I stare at my phone in disbelief.
You suggesting to lynch someone that is town to help clear the air is either scum motivated at best and at worst idiotic.
l2r
That post imo also sheds potential like on Iamp being killed. To my reading he was the only one to call her out for it..
This is mainly from a filter dive. Everything in it screams of someone coming in and skirting activity while posting nothing of substance. Hell he never comes into the thread and express a real reason or read to his vote on Trfel. Just sheeped onto it like nothing ever happened. Hell the only real time Tumblewood even expressed a read on Trfel it was a town read. So he sheeped a wagon to off a person he believed was town. Again, no fucking reason to do this ever. Clearly red.
Whatever the particulars of the bad Palmar scumread, I still think this is easily the most compelling reason for the HF scum case:
On March 06 2019 09:38 Blazinghand wrote: HF why did you claim a shot on me?
Here's a theory as to why HF did this. It is because he is scum.
In the Scum QT: Holyflare: Hey guys, the deadline is coming up. We know a vigi is going to shoot Blazinghand, and then probably claim after the daypost. Other Scums: yeah, sounds accurate to me. Holyflare: then Blazinghand will flip town, and i'm going to look real bad. Other Scums: oh no! Holyflare: ok, but here's the plan. I'm going to, right before the end of the night, with second on the clock, claim that I'm the vigi and am shooting BH. Other Scums: why would you do this HF? we're not shooting BH... Holflare: see, a vigi is going to shoot Blazinghand, and I will get autolynched D2 unless I can pose as the vigi who shot him. This will allow me to get in one more mislynch, as people will trust me. If the real vigi counterclaims, that's still a better situation than if I never claimed in the first place and just let myself get autolynched. Other Scums: good idea
Then, for some reason, I didn't get shot, and now HF has to just pretend he never claimed he was shooting me
HF has largely abandoned his provably false ideas of "well, I couldn't change the mayor lynch" given the way the mayor lynch is received mechanically and the fact he was in thread and watched and commented on the shenannnies as they went down. Just for killing Palmar is he scum? eh, maybe not. But for lying about it, then slithering away from the lie when called out? oh yeah baby
I will quite literally quote my mod PM post game to prove it. Please stop posting this trash. I stand by my statement that it was locked in before I could say anything.
You keep bringing this up as if it means something to us. There's gonna be some host wifom here, but not a lot:
1. I know Kita and dandel and don't think they're dicks. If you PM'd them after the vote shenanigans and said you wanted to kill BH, I'll believe they'd allow it. So based on that I believe the PM was never sent. And the PM you will show us post-game is your role PM saying you win with scum.
2. If this were true, and Kita didn't let you change the target, why'd we have to drag it out of you? It would literally be the first thing out of mouth post-flip: "shit, tried to change it, but wasn't allowed to". It would even have made sense with your "I didn't kill Palmar" post. But you didn't say anything. You didn't even say anything when called out on your troll post. This "I tried to change it but couldn't" narrative only came wayyyyy later. In fact, your whole behavior around the flip is what makes me quite sure you're scum: first the troll post makes it clear you aren't worried about your decision. Then the flip and the feels there are that you are gloating. Not shocked at how wrong you were and killed a fellow town leader.
On March 05 2019 09:38 Holyflare wrote: You guys knew what you were voting for :D
Trust me, if I abandoned somebody it would be Koshi.
Well at least he's confirmed town now
This?!
Thanks for pointing it out. I don't understand the jump unless you already know koshi is town. I thought it was a joke being returned at Kita. But you were serious? TMI shining through.
Add it to the many small reasons you a re mafia and we really need to kill you.
I think he's town and just doing some little anti-town things. Seems like the kind of guy who has to be the centre of attention and that would fit.
Please for the love of god explain to me how lying multiple times is only a little anti town?
Because of what he was lying about.
If goal 1 is to make the game about holyflare and goal 2 is to win for town lying about stuff like that (if it was a lie) makes sense.
I thought if you were replying to a 2 line post you'd at least go as far as reading the second line of it.
If goal 1 is to make the game about holyflare he has succeeded. But goal 1 and goal 2 only coincide if the town leader does pro-town things. Holyflare isn't doing pro-town things. He's doing pro-mafia things.
You think goal 1 cannot exist if holyflare is mafia?
On March 06 2019 18:52 Tubesock wrote: I’m 180ing on my Acrofales townread. I think the anger at HF is faked and made to look like he has a legitimate reason to lynch HF. I don’t see how someone can be that angry about something that they knew would happen. HF said he’d kill Palmar most the day, it was pretty clear. I’d expect the anger at the HF voters, where it should go. (Exactly like the trump wall).
People often say that people do things are either stupid or mafia. If Acrofales really thought HF was mafia, he’d just be spouting how HF is mafia with evidence, and the voters are the retards. But no, he knows HF is town, so he’ll say let’s kill him for being antiTown. I’d rather a town HF that fucks up, than a dead town HF. Plus, that would have been such a great play if Palmar was mafia. Would have been an epic play in the last tl game. Wiggles, you’ve been scumming me since before I even scummed Trfel. Yet you’ve never voted me. Why not? You seem pretty convinced, you have some others who agree. Think about what you say because I’m going to have great satisfaction copy and pasting things from your case on me in my defense.
Trust me, if I abandoned somebody it would be Koshi.
Well at least he's confirmed town now
This?!
Thanks for pointing it out. I don't understand the jump unless you already know koshi is town. I thought it was a joke being returned at Kita. But you were serious? TMI shining through.
Add it to the many small reasons you a re mafia and we really need to kill you.
I think he's town and just doing some little anti-town things. Seems like the kind of guy who has to be the centre of attention and that would fit.
Please for the love of god explain to me how lying multiple times is only a little anti town?
Because of what he was lying about.
If goal 1 is to make the game about holyflare and goal 2 is to win for town lying about stuff like that (if it was a lie) makes sense.
I thought if you were replying to a 2 line post you'd at least go as far as reading the second line of it.
HOW THE FUCK IS THAT PLAYING FOR THE TOWN.
If I am mafia and I can make the entire game my plaything to hide my scum team thats awesome play. To make it all about me when I am town is a fucking asshole shit move. It auto means you will invalidate others opinions (who could be right) just because you disagree. And lying? Especially more than once is insanely fucking scummy. Especially when they don't make sense.
This is a pretty dedicated bus. I might have to rethink the scumread on you.
On March 06 2019 20:30 WaveofShadow wrote: So, the past few hours are the absolute best indication why HF has to die. I don't even give a shit about his alignment anymore I'm just sick of hearing from and about him.
So much time wasted. Put your votes on him and get your minds off him. Move on.
Weird post.
Its like you want everyone not to talk about hf but at the same time you want everyone to talk about him.
Let's kill ace the guy's clearly scum.
No. We're killing HF and I promise I will tell you exactly why in a couple of hours. In the meantime:
Trust me, if I abandoned somebody it would be Koshi.
Well at least he's confirmed town now
This?!
Thanks for pointing it out. I don't understand the jump unless you already know koshi is town. I thought it was a joke being returned at Kita. But you were serious? TMI shining through.
Add it to the many small reasons you a re mafia and we really need to kill you.
I think he's town and just doing some little anti-town things. Seems like the kind of guy who has to be the centre of attention and that would fit.
Please for the love of god explain to me how lying multiple times is only a little anti town?
Because of what he was lying about.
If goal 1 is to make the game about holyflare and goal 2 is to win for town lying about stuff like that (if it was a lie) makes sense.
I thought if you were replying to a 2 line post you'd at least go as far as reading the second line of it.
If goal 1 is to make the game about holyflare he has succeeded. But goal 1 and goal 2 only coincide if the town leader does pro-town things. Holyflare isn't doing pro-town things. He's doing pro-mafia things.
You think goal 1 cannot exist if holyflare is mafia?
The only thing he's done that is specifically pro mafia rather than just being vaguely anti-town is lynch Palmar, and that could have just been a bad read.
I know you're new here, but what the hell is this? Doing "specifically pro-mafia stuff" is stuff town doesn't do. You say it's a bad read, but him killing Palmar was almost entirely off his ego being too big for Palmar to beat him in a mayor election. There isn't even any townie reasoning there, it is entirely based on "goal 1": the town isn't big enough for the two of them, so he kills Palmar. It wasn't a "bad read". It wasn't a read at all.
Doing shit "for the lulz" is fine, up until it gets town leaders killed. The fact that you don't see that...
Moreover, WoS is right. Any lylo with HF alive is gonna be a trainwreck for town. There's really two ways this can go down:
(1) HF is scum and they've shot people til a clueless townie (you?) is left who is eating out of the palm of his hand. You vote along with him to kill your townmate. Game over.
(2) HF is town, and they've shot people til an angry townie (me?) is left who has wanted to lynch HF from D2 onwards but couldn't and now finally gets his chance. Angry townie votes HF, the lurking scum votes HF, and they still win.
It's a massive useless wifom bomb and a situation town should actively try to avoid. Bonus points in this case, because we're in situation (1) and lynching HF lynches scum and keeps us away from lylo a bit longer. Yay us.
On March 06 2019 20:50 Holyflare wrote: If any of you twats that are voting me are actually town then you've been bamboozled to push the most pro mafia strat lynch you can. Look at them all come out of the woodwork.
If you're town then maybe next time don't let your ego get in the way of playing the game. But don't worry, you aren't.
On March 06 2019 21:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: I really think we should lynch Acrofales and i don't think anything is going to change my mind this phase anymore. He has now given himself a perfect narrative to do absolutely nothing than sound like a broken record repeating Holyflare is mafia because he did a stupid thing. The problem is if you don't kill him right now even if we lynch another mafia after N2 too many influential players are going to be dead and he will simply yell over anyone who's left and town and you will get irritated and lose interest to play. I know this because it's how i used to play as scum.
Here is a list why Acrofales is mafia:
He called out Grackaroni for making a useless list post and then continued doing nothing but listing lurkers / low volume posters for like next 24 hours. Neither of those are in itself necessarily scummy but saying someone is scum for doing a "universal mafia trait" -thing and then doing the same thing yourself is scummy as fuck and never comes from town, you'd have to be the biggest fucking hypocrite on earth to do that.
He scumread iamperfection for too long, he should know wayyyyy better regardless of the fact iamp made a case (that everyone should read) on him.
During the EoD he wasn't actively trying to do stuff, all he did was yelling and causing chaos. The most notable thing is he perfectly knew both Palmar's and Holyflare's mayor lynch choices don't align with his reads yet never ever during the whole time the debate was on tries he convince either of them to agree on a different lynch. Especially Palmar when they both share a scumread on Mocsta. There is simply no reason why a townie shouldn't care about this.
Fake anger after D1 flips and anger directed at wrong place. Tubesock had a good post about this.
After D1 Acrofales hasn't done a single productive thing. He has given himself a narrative in calling Holyflare mafia, hiding behind it, and doing nothing else. Even if he genuinely thinks Holyflare is mafia for doing a bad / stupid thing (which isn't even a good reason to scumread someone) it's simply pure mafia play to excuse yourself for not doing anything other than calling him mafia and everyone stupid and bad.
I encourage everyone to put your votes on Acrofales.
All these Lighntingstrikes and Alakaslams need to get their heads out of their asses. Wave if you want to spend the rest of the game with scum 5-years-ago-rayn then be my guest and have your vote on HF as policy but don't complain after the game, especially in case Acrofales at some point decides to call you mafia and wants to have you lynched. You will not like it a single bit. The truth is Holyflare executing his scumread Palmar, however bad or stupid you may think that is, isn't actually even close to a good reasoning of him being mafia.
I agree on the case on Ace. I had more thought on it and i think the fact that he was actually aware of Trfel (or at least looked like he is) suggests that it is more likely he did in fact know what Holyflare was about to do. I know a lot of people are saying Ace is too good as scum to do something like that but i don't believe that is the case. I think Ace decided he can use his activity as an excuse to "not know HF is gonna lynch Palmar", aka that he didn't see it, and did the numbers and thought he can get away with it. Also Ace is not like some fucking mafia god that doesn't make any mistakes. + Show Spoiler +
I caught him once because scum nuked meapak and i went to fakeclaim the nuke when for any player who doesn't have TMI that nuke never comes from mafia. Ace got confused and started gunning on me being mafia completely ignoring the fact before. And he couldn't even keep his story straight. So yeah, it's not like Ace alwasy does the most optimal play as mafia.
Mr.Wiggles is also mafia but that's for tomorrow.
That's quite a pretty narrative you've spun. It's all quite plausible, as I do believe we have a similar playstyle. It's also completely wrong, as I try to mimick my townplay as scum, and my townplay is what I'm doing right now. So if you build a meta case, at least do it properly.
It's blatantly false that I haven't done anything other than hound HF. I am principally hounding HF, because he needs to die. But saying I haven't done anything else since D1 is absurd. Did you even open my filter to write this case?
But more generally, something changed quite radically in how you're playing the game.
The truth is Holyflare executing his scumread Palmar, however bad or stupid you may think that is, isn't actually even close to a good reasoning of him being mafia.
What did you do with the rayn that absolutely always wanted to kill people for doing really dumb shit and would hound them relentlessly. This isn't even about your alignment, as you'd do it as both scum or town. The lack of you hounding people makes it seem like you're not invested at all in the game, which just makes me sad, as you made a case on me without actually puzzling over my filter. You just lazily threw together your "HF town" with "Acro tunneling HF" notes, and made a case for me to be scum, disregarding everything around it. You didn't even bother to double check your "HF town" read even after he shot Palmar and gloated about it.
On March 05 2019 08:51 Palmar wrote: Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia
your wifom mind bomb wont work im going to ignore it.
Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia
The rest of the team is probably this: Sentinel rsoultin MZ damdred marvellosity bloodycobbler
But because there's no way I got it right in one go, there's probably scum in the lurks too: Onegu Rels ExO_ ace AMG
Town; Vivax Koshi jock WoS
Probably town: Oats Slam LS Lamp
It's worth noting that I completely forgot rayn was in the game all night, so he doesn't appear in this list. That is a total oversight that I will rectify when I have time.
And yeah, the fact that rayn is not even doing enough to remember he's in the game is worth thinking about.
On March 06 2019 21:54 Acrofales wrote: It's blatantly false that I haven't done anything other than hound HF. I am principally hounding HF, because he needs to die. But saying I haven't done anything else since D1 is absurd. Did you even open my filter to write this case?
Sure you posted words but that doesn't mean you're trying to do something with them.
Rest of your post is just fluff.
I posted *LOTS* of words. And the *BEST* words. This dismissal is just meh.
On March 06 2019 22:01 Tubesock wrote: I’d scum the shit out if HF if he platformed killing Palmar, cased and scumread him, and didn’t kill him. Maybe MAYBE not if he killed scum instead. I think I’d still think he could be scum for killing a lurker mafia.
To me the ONLY plausible reason to scumread HF is because he said he tried to change it. And even that is 50/50 really. Everything else he’s done has been good for town.
People say he has a big ego, you think he thought Palmar was scum and wouldn’t shoot for epic plays???
You voters should be arguing that HF didn’t really believe his Palmar case.
But you can’t cause he did.
This! This is the thing that makes all "HF is scum" believers either retards or mafia.
You're scumming me, but I literally did that.
On March 06 2019 20:50 Acrofales wrote:
I know you're new here, but what the hell is this? Doing "specifically pro-mafia stuff" is stuff town doesn't do. You say it's a bad read, but him killing Palmar was almost entirely off his ego being too big for Palmar to beat him in a mayor election. There isn't even any townie reasoning there, it is entirely based on "goal 1": the town isn't big enough for the two of them, so he kills Palmar. It wasn't a "bad read". It wasn't a read at all.
I don't have time right now to collect all my notes in one place, but this is clearly important. So here is his Palmar case:
On March 04 2019 18:07 Holyflare wrote: My mayor lynch will be on Palmar by the way.
I can get behind this, but what's the reasoning behind it?
Only talks about town reads, has no suspicions on pretty much anything in the game. Perpetuates nonsense policy lynch after he likes Sentinel's effort when he hasn't even read it. His last post about acro is entirely a wall of hedge whereby he looks like he's falsely weighing up Acro's alignment but really it's wishy washy and says nothing.
His iamp read looks completely bs too for similar reasons to his acro read. Iamp is town but wait here's reasons I can say he's not town later in the game.
None of this is concrete town palmar stuff. There's also the fact we can acknowledge that mafia were pushing for his candidacy if he does flip mafia
This was on sunday evening, when he was mostly right that Palmar hadn't played much yet. But they were both around all of monday, and nothing happened except HF's ego got more hurt:
On March 05 2019 06:38 Holyflare wrote: Palmar (11): Palmar, Ticktock, Meapak_Zipphh, Acrofales, Vivax, WaveofShadow, Grackaroni, Conversion, Alakaslam, Trfel, Blazinghand
How has this guy got 11 people voting for him when his sole policy is only to kill Sentinel who doesn't even look bad?
Almost the entirety, if not THE entirety of this wagon is the sketchiest people in this game. It's even growing!
And this one is blatantly false:
On March 05 2019 07:18 Holyflare wrote: Especially now that more people are actually voting him when he has said nothing else of value.
Like... I did the exercise at the time, and tried to read Palmar as scum. I got through the weekend thinking he might be right, because Palmar posted a policy lynch and a bunch of town reads. I did find he was throwing off townie vibes, but figured it might have been him throwing me a green read to bedazzle me. But all of monday (the above post is made an hour and a bit before deadline), Palmar was deep diving people, engaging people, and hunting scum. Classifying that as "nothing of value" is nonsense.
So no, HF really didn't have much of a case on Palmar at all. Definitely not one that shows conviction, and certainly not one where he is trying to actually figure out if he's right or not. He parked the case on Sunday evening and didn't bother analysing anything Palmar did all of Monday.
Now I get that HF is apparently an egomaniac, but he is completely uncritical of his read. He doesn't return to it, just reiterates any time anybody asks that he will kill Palmar. Lamp and Koshi come to their own conclusions of Palmar. They were obviously wrong, but you can see their thought process and you can see Koshi engage with Palmar about it. Not so at all with HF.
On March 06 2019 22:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: Like i have no doubt in anyone's abilities to figure out all the wiggleses, onegus, blazinghands and aces in this game, i have serious doubts on 26/30 people's abilities to out-yell acrofales.
That's ok. They don't have to out-yell me, they can just sheep me to a town victory.
On March 06 2019 22:32 Acrofales wrote: But all of monday (the above post is made an hour and a bit before deadline), Palmar was deep diving people, engaging people, and hunting scum. Classifying that as "nothing of value" is nonsense.
So no, HF really didn't have much of a case on Palmar at all. Definitely not one that shows conviction, and certainly not one where he is trying to actually figure out if he's right or not. He parked the case on Sunday evening and didn't bother analysing anything Palmar did all of Monday.
Then why didn't we hear any of this stronger Eod? Why didn't you try to convince either of the mayors to lynch another suspect (you thought Sentinel is town)? Why didn't you try to convince Palmar on your Mocsta case and execute him (Palmar was scumreading Mocsta)?
Also, my Mocsta case? Huh? I haven't cased Mocsta. I definitely didn't case him D1. Last thoughts on D1 about him:
On March 05 2019 08:04 Acrofales wrote: Okay. Filtered mocsta. He doesn't look as bad as I thought he did at all. But the exchange with Palmar definitely was mocsta overreacting. I didn't read that as Palmar shutting him down. I read it as mocsta overreacting to Palmar poking him a bit for some reads/reaction. They could easily both be town from that exchange.
Koshi, stop being so exciteable.
My thoughts of Mocsta haven't actually changed much. He has some weird inconsistencies that make me keep doubting his towniness, but there's like at least 10 people in this game scummier than him.
On March 06 2019 22:47 Acrofales wrote: Also, my Mocsta case? Huh? I haven't cased Mocsta. I definitely didn't case him D1
I never said you cased him. I said you scumread him and Palmar scumread him, which you both did.
Except... I didn't. At least not by the time it actually mattered.
Anyway, what was the point of convincing Palmar to do something other than what Palmar was gonna do. I wasn't sold on Sentinel being town, and didn't really mind Palmar wanting to axe him, so didn't feel at all responsible to try to stop him. I would have preferred he axed someone I had a solid scumread on, but given a choice between axing Palmar and axing almost anyone else in the game, I was going with "almost anyone else". And yes, I was afk for like 3 hours and came back 1 hour before the deadline. There wasn't a lot of time to get a new wagon going. Especially not by me, with my 0 clout at the time. I could probably have argued myself out of a lynch, but I sure as hell didn't have the presence to argue HF, Palmar, Lamp or even BH *into* doing anything.
On March 06 2019 22:01 Tubesock wrote: I’d scum the shit out if HF if he platformed killing Palmar, cased and scumread him, and didn’t kill him. Maybe MAYBE not if he killed scum instead. I think I’d still think he could be scum for killing a lurker mafia.
To me the ONLY plausible reason to scumread HF is because he said he tried to change it. And even that is 50/50 really. Everything else he’s done has been good for town.
People say he has a big ego, you think he thought Palmar was scum and wouldn’t shoot for epic plays???
You voters should be arguing that HF didn’t really believe his Palmar case.
But you can’t cause he did.
This! This is the thing that makes all "HF is scum" believers either retards or mafia.
You're scumming me, but I literally did that.
On March 06 2019 20:50 Acrofales wrote:
I know you're new here, but what the hell is this? Doing "specifically pro-mafia stuff" is stuff town doesn't do. You say it's a bad read, but him killing Palmar was almost entirely off his ego being too big for Palmar to beat him in a mayor election. There isn't even any townie reasoning there, it is entirely based on "goal 1": the town isn't big enough for the two of them, so he kills Palmar. It wasn't a "bad read". It wasn't a read at all.
I don't have time right now to collect all my notes in one place, but this is clearly important. So here is his Palmar case:
On March 04 2019 18:14 Holyflare wrote:
On March 04 2019 18:09 Jockmcplop wrote:
On March 04 2019 18:07 Holyflare wrote: My mayor lynch will be on Palmar by the way.
I can get behind this, but what's the reasoning behind it?
Only talks about town reads, has no suspicions on pretty much anything in the game. Perpetuates nonsense policy lynch after he likes Sentinel's effort when he hasn't even read it. His last post about acro is entirely a wall of hedge whereby he looks like he's falsely weighing up Acro's alignment but really it's wishy washy and says nothing.
His iamp read looks completely bs too for similar reasons to his acro read. Iamp is town but wait here's reasons I can say he's not town later in the game.
None of this is concrete town palmar stuff. There's also the fact we can acknowledge that mafia were pushing for his candidacy if he does flip mafia
This was on sunday evening, when he was mostly right that Palmar hadn't played much yet. But they were both around all of monday, and nothing happened except HF's ego got more hurt:
On March 05 2019 06:38 Holyflare wrote: Palmar (11): Palmar, Ticktock, Meapak_Zipphh, Acrofales, Vivax, WaveofShadow, Grackaroni, Conversion, Alakaslam, Trfel, Blazinghand
How has this guy got 11 people voting for him when his sole policy is only to kill Sentinel who doesn't even look bad?
Almost the entirety, if not THE entirety of this wagon is the sketchiest people in this game. It's even growing!
And this one is blatantly false:
On March 05 2019 07:18 Holyflare wrote: Especially now that more people are actually voting him when he has said nothing else of value.
Like... I did the exercise at the time, and tried to read Palmar as scum. I got through the weekend thinking he might be right, because Palmar posted a policy lynch and a bunch of town reads. I did find he was throwing off townie vibes, but figured it might have been him throwing me a green read to bedazzle me. But all of monday (the above post is made an hour and a bit before deadline), Palmar was deep diving people, engaging people, and hunting scum. Classifying that as "nothing of value" is nonsense.
So no, HF really didn't have much of a case on Palmar at all. Definitely not one that shows conviction, and certainly not one where he is trying to actually figure out if he's right or not. He parked the case on Sunday evening and didn't bother analysing anything Palmar did all of Monday.
Now I get that HF is apparently an egomaniac, but he is completely uncritical of his read. He doesn't return to it, just reiterates any time anybody asks that he will kill Palmar. Lamp and Koshi come to their own conclusions of Palmar. They were obviously wrong, but you can see their thought process and you can see Koshi engage with Palmar about it. Not so at all with HF.
This is pretty misconstrued. Who did Palmar want to kill other than sentinel? Who the fuck knows until right near deadline where he finally posted something and also spammed wiggles. This also isn't all I posted in the slightest:
On March 05 2019 09:53 marvellosity wrote: HF mate, why did you actually kill Palmar?
I don't want a quote from your posts, just the actual reason(s)
? I thought his early posts were colossally bad. I didn't like how he kept coming up with reasons to read people one way or another that on closer inspection turned out to be massively false and then he'd just brush it away.
This happened with:
Rayn - where he came up with some factually incorrect meta and falsehoods in this game that got disproved and then called out by Rayn himself and Palmar just hand waved it away
LS read - where he tried to further his incorrect point that he must be right on LS because rsoul and damdred agreed with him (and also therefore damdred must be town because they agreed on LS(????????????????)). It turned out neither of them really agreed anymore but he didn't update that read on damdred
At the time I submitted the vote on palmar he had only 2 real attempts at scum reads and they turned out to be hedges instead on both acro and iamp so he really had no scum reads. He only started trying to scum read people after I called him out on it.
Outside of Palmar himself there was an overwhelming wagon building on Palmar's mayorship out of nowhere. He had only stated that he was going to lynch sentinel and then after Sentinel posted not bad walls of text he never updated that read. His wagon kept growing but with nobody really casting doubt on Sentinel further (other than like 1-2 people) so Palmar seemed to be in direct contention with my mayor votes for absolutely no reason whatsoever (I even had sentinel as my lynch policy for a long while).
I ultimately ended up still lynching Palmar:
A) because my vote was locked in and I never really got to change it to BH when your slot and vivax saved him
B) I would much rather have fun with a lynch on a really polarising player to lynch instead of some shitty policy lynch anyway that may or may not have actually turned into a scum BH. We now have about 100 different reads on this lynch and we have the flip to boot. It wouldn't have been the same if Palmar didn't flip either.
I was tempted to vote some non-entity but that's really really fucking boring and wouldn't be fun.
Palmar - (wishy washy Iamp post, wishy washy Acro post. I call him out that he has no solid scum reads and he has to hunker down and scum read someone. Defaults to Sentinel still, can't see any motivation from sentinel other than scum motivation. He then makes some bs analysis of the wagons acknowledging that his wagon is the most scum motivated one to follow but doesn't use that to reevaluate anything and doesn't question which of the people on the wagon are scummy. He defends Pandain who has literally posted nothing but coaching.
Makes a movement for Rayn to be mafia based on Rayn's activity which hasn't meant anything since a long time now. Doesn't even get what Rayn said correct.
Doesn't even know what Damdred/Rsoul posted about LS. Not interested in figuring out game, instead tried to use others to prove his point.
Wants to vote Conversion because Conversion was lazy but attributes it to mafia motivation instead of just someone being lazy. That's the crux of his entire read. Fakes some floundering on it when Conversion posts some irl excuse, seems pretty forced.
After nothing in between Conversion drops off max scum vote list and is replaced with lurker and policy lynch. Not great at all.)
The former is literally after the lynch happened. The latter is a list post half an hour before the lynch when you've been harping on about Palmar all day. Both are a posteriori justifications rather than actually engaging him. And in particular the latter about when Palmar started scumhunting is quite blatantly false. But we can argue about that until we're both blue in the face, because you'll probably just "no true Scotsman" his scumhunting, just like rayn just did.
On March 06 2019 22:47 Acrofales wrote: Also, my Mocsta case? Huh? I haven't cased Mocsta. I definitely didn't case him D1
I never said you cased him. I said you scumread him and Palmar scumread him, which you both did.
Except... I didn't. At least not by the time it actually mattered.
Who were the mayoral candidates going to lynch when you did have a scumread on Mocsta?
Who the fuck knows, or cares?
I mean. What on earth in my filter gives you at all the impression that mocsta was ever my main scumspect. Like, at *any* point in the game ever?
I dont care if Mocsta was your top 1 or top 5 scumread but you and Palmar agreed on Mocsta being mafia at some point when all mayors wanted to kill your townreads and you didnt do fucking shit. How fucking hard is this to explain? Are you like 5 yrs old?
1) I didn't ever strong townread Sentinel. I thought he didn't look as bad as Palmar did, but I would have been perfectly happy to sheep Palmar.
2) I didn't ever hava a strong scumread on Mocsta. So I definitely wasn't going to bother convincing Palmar around 15 hours before the lynch to kill Mocsta instead. If I did have a strong read, I would have tried to have him lynched. But I didn't. So I didn't.
WHY ARE YOU NITPICKING THIS WITHOUT EVEN READING WHAT HAPPENED?
On March 06 2019 22:47 Acrofales wrote: Also, my Mocsta case? Huh? I haven't cased Mocsta. I definitely didn't case him D1
I never said you cased him. I said you scumread him and Palmar scumread him, which you both did.
Except... I didn't. At least not by the time it actually mattered.
Who were the mayoral candidates going to lynch when you did have a scumread on Mocsta?
Who the fuck knows, or cares?
I mean. What on earth in my filter gives you at all the impression that mocsta was ever my main scumspect. Like, at *any* point in the game ever?
I dont care if Mocsta was your top 1 or top 5 scumread but you and Palmar agreed on Mocsta being mafia at some point when all mayors wanted to kill your townreads and you didnt do fucking shit. How fucking hard is this to explain? Are you like 5 yrs old?
1) I didn't ever strong townread Sentinel. I thought he didn't look as bad as Palmar did, but I would have been perfectly happy to sheep Palmar.
2) I didn't ever hava a strong scumread on Mocsta. So I definitely wasn't going to bother convincing Palmar around 15 hours before the lynch to kill Mocsta instead. If I did have a strong read, I would have tried to have him lynched. But I didn't. So I didn't.
WHY ARE YOU NITPICKING THIS WITHOUT EVEN READING WHAT HAPPENED?
Why arent you answering the question? You just outlined everything i said without answering the question. This is not about "why didnt you wanna kill Mocsta", this is about why didn't you do anything at all.
Your definition of not doing anything at all is like... 34 out of 35 people in the game, most notably including yourself. In my opinion I did lots of things. So we'll just disagree.
On March 06 2019 23:18 raynpelikoneet wrote: [quote] I never said you cased him. I said you scumread him and Palmar scumread him, which you both did.
Except... I didn't. At least not by the time it actually mattered.
Who were the mayoral candidates going to lynch when you did have a scumread on Mocsta?
Who the fuck knows, or cares?
I mean. What on earth in my filter gives you at all the impression that mocsta was ever my main scumspect. Like, at *any* point in the game ever?
I dont care if Mocsta was your top 1 or top 5 scumread but you and Palmar agreed on Mocsta being mafia at some point when all mayors wanted to kill your townreads and you didnt do fucking shit. How fucking hard is this to explain? Are you like 5 yrs old?
1) I didn't ever strong townread Sentinel. I thought he didn't look as bad as Palmar did, but I would have been perfectly happy to sheep Palmar.
2) I didn't ever hava a strong scumread on Mocsta. So I definitely wasn't going to bother convincing Palmar around 15 hours before the lynch to kill Mocsta instead. If I did have a strong read, I would have tried to have him lynched. But I didn't. So I didn't.
WHY ARE YOU NITPICKING THIS WITHOUT EVEN READING WHAT HAPPENED?
Why arent you answering the question? You just outlined everything i said without answering the question. This is not about "why didnt you wanna kill Mocsta", this is about why didn't you do anything at all.
Your definition of not doing anything at all is like... 34 out of 35 people in the game, most notably including yourself. In my opinion I did lots of things. So we'll just disagree.
If you don't want to answer then that's up to you.
I do really like what rsoultin is showing today. I have no idea how a scum rsoultin plays today, but she isn't lurking and she isn't blending. She's doing her own thing, reading the thread. My night read on her may be wrong.
she has played here a lot. Who can I ask about her meta? I really dislike that it doesn't feel like she was pushing anything, and how she ended up on the kill Palmar wagon.
I need some help. If rsoultin can metaread LS so easily, I assume the reverse is true too?
@LS: what do you think of rsoultin? From your filter it looks like you scum her, but it isn't clear why.
On March 07 2019 01:03 Acrofales wrote: I do really like what rsoultin is showing today. I have no idea how a scum rsoultin plays today, but she isn't lurking and she isn't blending. She's doing her own thing, reading the thread. My night read on her may be wrong.
she has played here a lot. Who can I ask about her meta? I really dislike that it doesn't feel like she was pushing anything, and how she ended up on the kill Palmar wagon.
I need some help. If rsoultin can metaread LS so easily, I assume the reverse is true too?
@LS: what do you think of rsoultin? From your filter it looks like you scum her, but it isn't clear why.
Oh FOR FUCK'S SAKE. I had this all written out and then I closed the tab. Had to write it all again. I even fished through the memorydump from Chrome and recovered some pieces, but it was piecemeal and scattered
See spoiler for tech foibles. This took me longer than I thought, and I thought it would take a while. Anyway, here are the two main reasons there is no doubt that Holyflare is scum:
Exhibit A: the "locked in" waffle First, lets establish the timeline. Your honor, we need to establish that holyflare was on the scene!
00:57:
On March 05 2019 08:57 Vivax wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote Trfel
00:58:
On March 05 2019 08:58 LightningStrike wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote blazinghand
On March 05 2019 08:32 Trfel wrote: STILL NO ONE HAS SAID A SINGLE THING TO ME
NOT ONE EXPLANATION OF WHY I AM MAFIA NOT ONE QUESTION NOTHING
Do you realize what is happening? If I'm lynched, fine, whatever, but someone acknowledge my existence please!
I think you are mafia and I told you why.
Disconnect in every other post you made. That is enough.
Show me the disconnects, that's simply not true. I already explained the two disconnects that exist. If you show me more I can explain them too, nothing even has merit except for those two.
@Holyflare, I'd take another look at Fecalfeast and Mocsta. Mocsta's play felt honest and genuine to me, admittedly he hasn't done much but I don't think that's mafia indicative. I know that Fecalfeast enjoys playing scum (heck he has one of the highest mafia winrates on the site) and he's relaxed and carefree as mafia, IIRC he's more relaxed and carefree and fun-loving as mafia than town. As mafia he plays to exist and survive, not to push stuff, and that's exactly what he is doing here. Otherwise, just please don't start a big fight between you and raynnpelikoneet or anyone else that causes massive tunnels.
Can you explain the mocsta progression on Palmar then? How can he go from so rage-y and agreeing with my posts against Palmar to suddenly voting Conversion with palmar and agreeing like nothing had happened?
Huh. To be honest I couldn't tell you. I guess never mind me then, I'm still not really convinced he's mafia but I couldn't (and wouldn't) stop anyone who said otherwise.
You and Exo
You guys need to explain your scumread on me
But I don't have a scumread on you?
I'm just trusting Holyflare. The whole saving me thing and all.
Why are you voting to lynch me then?
I'm not? Unless you mean voting Holyflare for mayor, because I trust him to do the right thing. And I kinda expect he won't kill you, but I probably shouldn't say that, it makes him more likely to. But you asked.
I've re-submitted my lynch to Palmar from Palmar.
00:59:
On March 05 2019 08:59 Conversion wrote: ##unvote ##vote trfel
01:00:
On March 05 2019 09:00 Holyflare wrote: lol I didn't kill palmar
01:10:
On March 05 2019 09:10 Holyflare wrote:
So we've established beyond reasonable doubt that Holyflare was on the scene and, if he had wanted to, could have sent a PM to kita asking to kill BH instead of Palmar. Now, your honor, I submit that Holyflare never wanted to change. This does not make him scum (well, it does, but he can wifom his way out of this). What makes him scum is him prevaricating about changing.
Post-flip he gets pressured a bit and says:
On March 05 2019 09:41 Holyflare wrote: for the record if I knew bh was not getting lynched I would have absolutely switched it to him but it was already locked in
But he was right there the whole time. He knew BH was not getting lynched. He even got PM'd by the hosts about it:
Shocker I know right? The guy literally led us down a wrong path all fucking game. He has lied by his own admission multiple times. He claimed he would mayor lynch Sentinel, then Palmar. Said he wasn't serious on the Palmar lynch, then says he lies a few hours before deadline and offs Palmar who flips backup cop. He said he shot BH then claimed that he only did so to create tension in the thread. However his outrage about the game being full of blues seems one that an angry mafia could make. The other thing that gets me about his lying is he claims that he couldnt change his mayor vote because it was locked in while being insanely active right at the time the lynch was happening so could have changed it had he wished but claimed
On March 05 2019 09:41 Holyflare wrote: for the record if I knew bh was not getting lynched I would have absolutely switched it to him but it was already locked in
how is it locked in ?
that makes no sense you could have changed
I don't think so? I PMd it saying lynch palmar a long time ago when it was called for in the thread and when the deadline came I was told it was palmar selected. Didn't really get given any other opportunity but it is what it is.
Unless things have drastically changed since I played this game. If you had any action you could take whatsoever you could change it more than once before a deadline hit. So if this has changed feel free to correct me but until then this is a straight up fucking lie.
Next few thing that gets me however that stood out after a filter dive is this.
On March 04 2019 00:55 rsoultin wrote: The whole thing where LS's only 'scumread' out of 34 other people is MZ, and then he wants to kill Koshi screams to me of a Koshi that rolled scum and told his buddies to just lynch him.
If LS flips scum, MZ probably is scum, too, so that's three right there.
On March 04 2019 00:55 rsoultin wrote: The whole thing where LS's only 'scumread' out of 34 other people is MZ, and then he wants to kill Koshi screams to me of a Koshi that rolled scum and told his buddies to just lynch him.
If LS flips scum, MZ probably is scum, too, so that's three right there.
Koshi is confirmed town though so it's ok.
HOW THE FUCK IS HE CONFIRMED TOWN? HE NEVER FUCKING POSTED THIS ENTIRE GAME?
On March 04 2019 00:58 Holyflare wrote: Magic LightningStrike, magic
This exchange right here. How if a player who hasn't posted at that point in time even remotely close to being considered confirmed town? The only way that you would know this is if you actually knew his alignment.
Another gem. To discredit Palmar he uses this as one of his reasons to discredit him.
Can you really trust Palmar as mayor when he's not even top 7?
Bashing a player based on stats out of game rather than in game play? If you honestly believe (based on stats) that you are a better player than someone why do you need to bring that up as your reason? Should be good enough to win an election based on pure skill.
On March 05 2019 08:23 Holyflare wrote: Arbitrary list. Please tell me which of the ones I haven't read should be read asap. Bit annoying the bottom half of the player list has a lot of scummy people to read. I cba writing anymore so close to deadline.
tubesock (Could be wrong on him but his filter seems clean and he's making his own conclusions (albeit just on trfel, but trfel is the new flavour of the month and he was first so looks ok)
Fecalfeast (Don't hate anything he's said. In fact on page 2 of his filter everything he says there kind of aligns with what I've been thinking. His vote platform seems carefree and like he doesn't really give a shit, just wants to do his own thing. Very acro focused but not in an awful way. Content seems minimal though so he's not up at town.
Null
Onegu (legit has done 0 things)
Mr. Wiggles (seems resolute in looking at unturned stones, could just be blending but seems ok(?) Asked me to look into one of the T guys (tube?) but he didn't look bad in his filter at all so dropped to null)
WaveofShadow I want to believe Wave has a lack of emotion but he's done this exact thing of lurking and feigning before. I'd find it hard to motivate myself if I rolled mafia in this big game after a massive break like him too He hasn't got anything to go on really. Scummy just appearing.
Ace (Really has achieved not much. Voted me for mayor which is a big + and the things he says aren't not-towny in a vacuum but until he reaches a conclusion and votes not a placeholder for lynch there's really nothing to go on. Has weird posts in relation to BH when he hasn't really commented on much of the game apart from that)
Oatsmaster (don't hate his new direction - which is still seemingly every direction - but he's digging at least)
Tictock (This would absolutely be in the lower categories if it wasn't for his big appeal to emotion post against me which I have a big weakness for. I don't like that he decided to do the catch up style this game. He misses questions aimed towards him, gave up the style and ignored the pages in between. His logic has been wonky on a lot of people's posts and he seems to make a determined decision on someone's alignment and then make a narrative without weighing up both sides. But that AtE post though....)
ExO_ When reading through the thread there was a discussion that exo was present for and he kept asking random questions and not really interacting with it and I voted him for it. Upon reading his filter I got a completely different clean impression so he's in a null placeholder until I re-read that whole time he was in thread.
Scum-ish
Tumblewood (looks very low effort, may be mistaken on this though but it's a lot of questions that don't end up much of anywhere and lots of seemingly sentiment following on mayor lynches)
Trfel (Feel disgusting doing this (putting him in null) after he scum reads sentinel for something that happened almost 72 hours ago but I don't think he says he doesn't think Oats is posting like mafia and then backtracks and votes for him as mafia. That seems like something he'd be too self conscious to do. But then he says things like "oats (pressure vote)" as if he never meant it so this started as null but it's actually now scum-ish)
Acrofales (This dude has looked scummy quite a lot. First was when he said he was sheeping Palmar because he trusted him more to find scum while scum reading the person I wanted to lynch. Then he said I didn't look that great because I was scum reading Oats for bad reasons and then he made a list of why Oats was scum which was entirely made up of my reasons. Then I said I scum read rayn and he said he doesn't scum read rayn. When Palmar came with a bs reason to scum read rayn Acro basically reneged on his plan to vote me because he agreed that Rayn looked like mafia when nothing from rayn had happened in between. Every time I think about these occurrences it makes me want to drop him down further. Don't ask me why I don't. He has ok looking breakthroughs every now and again)
raynpelikoneet Talked through me. Ignroed rsoultin. Disappeared and reappeared to appeal to me and vote palmar/(think he disliked acro too). Conflicted heavily at the moment.
Scum
Blazinghand (No RNG, no posts of content. Just doing whatever to seem like the good towny martyr. I think I've seen him do this exact play before as mafia.)
Mocsta (This dude, does anyone know where his head is at? I sure don't. He +1s my post scum reading Palmar, gets in a shit show with Palmar and then somehow bows down to him after having a meltdown like 2.4 seconds before over Palmar's really weak Conversion read????????????? Just read his filter progression with me and Palmar and be prepared to go "What?")
Palmar - (wishy washy Iamp post, wishy washy Acro post. I call him out that he has no solid scum reads and he has to hunker down and scum read someone. Defaults to Sentinel still, can't see any motivation from sentinel other than scum motivation. He then makes some bs analysis of the wagons acknowledging that his wagon is the most scum motivated one to follow but doesn't use that to reevaluate anything and doesn't question which of the people on the wagon are scummy. He defends Pandain who has literally posted nothing but coaching.
Makes a movement for Rayn to be mafia based on Rayn's activity which hasn't meant anything since a long time now. Doesn't even get what Rayn said correct.
Doesn't even know what Damdred/Rsoul posted about LS. Not interested in figuring out game, instead tried to use others to prove his point.
Wants to vote Conversion because Conversion was lazy but attributes it to mafia motivation instead of just someone being lazy. That's the crux of his entire read. Fakes some floundering on it when Conversion posts some irl excuse, seems pretty forced.
After nothing in between Conversion drops off max scum vote list and is replaced with lurker and policy lynch. Not great at all.)
LightningStrike (No scum reads. Only mentioned MZ once or twice but never really actually said anything about him of substance. Rage quit from the thread but still votes and still afks in the background. He finds it really hard to write scum reads as scum because it's against his nature. He hasn't done the characteristic "these two are fighting so one of them is mafia" post that he always does as town. He hasn't really given anything to go on. Rage seemed forced. He's fucking voting Palmar, jeeeeezzuusss.)
Chezinu (This is without reading his filter and just off memory alone. He does not seem to be having fun, his RP posts are quite devoid of anything entertaining. He's been trying to determine if I'm blue. He has been actually posting reads and being serious which is a complete juxtaposition to any time I've ever ever seen Chezinu been town (or really mafia either) but from what I can see there seems to be agenda in Chez. I will update this on actually reading him because I can't remember a single one of his reads.
Now you may look at this and go “wtf why choose this post” However look at it. His confirmed 100% town were both capped and flipped green but one of his strongest scum reads and heavily leaned scum reads both flipped town. Meaning the only place he has been correct is where he places town reads. 1 of which he had a read on 100% before the player posted. Seems super fucking fishy.
She was on my radar day 1 as well. This shouldn't be a surprise.
1) She makes posts like this
On March 02 2019 20:35 rsoultin wrote: Like for me it breaks down like this:
You've got trolling people. You've got lurking people. You've got lazy people. You've got some overly aggressives that aren't giving me warm fuzzies (MP). You've got people I'm not sure about who when I'm not sure about them have a nasty habit of being scum (Rayn) but because he's burned me so often I'm not sure if that's not where the uncertainty's coming from.
And then you have seemingly excited to play, I respect the shit out of his intelligence Chez playing but not saying anything interesting. That first group can hide a lot of bad town play. But doing something without doing anything ticks off my scum meter to a higher degree.
Now what gets me from this is the characterization that Chez wasn't saying anything interesting. He was roleplaying sure, but he also had a string of very useful posts that weren't roleplay at all. As someone who dislikes lazy people, and trolling people perhaps doing a proper analysis of someones posting history to that point would you know? Non hypocritical.
On March 02 2019 20:58 rsoultin wrote: What are your reads that don't matter BC?
This was another read flag for me. A read that doesn't matter? Why would you ever want someone to actively give you information that is useless? Anyone can give a read but to provide no substance or reasoning for it is just useless and scummy. Asking for that info is just as bad.
Now the next things for me are this.
Chez is her #1 scum read. Rather than heavily pushing this (will admit she made an analysis post on him) She then waffles off wanting to off him (no real reason I could spot) then starts randomly sheeping other peoples reads
On March 03 2019 20:12 Palmar wrote: To be fair I mostly like Acro just for these two posts. They're the logical way to play the game.
Kill the policy lynch, continue playing.
On March 03 2019 17:09 Acrofales wrote: Enters Palmar: he claims to feel strongly about killing sent. So let him do it. All you need to decide is if Palmar is townie enough. But if we decide Palmar is townie enough to be mayor then he is free to kill whoever he likes. He sticks with sentinel and sentinel flips scum? We win, yay! Sheep Palmar into Armageddon. Sentinel flips town? We figure out if Palmars policy lynch is an ideological thing or a scum thing. Either way, we get information about Palmar out of this, which is a great thing to get out of D1.
On March 03 2019 17:11 Acrofales wrote: Oh, also, if sent was actually playing and being townie, I'd be more inclined to want him to live. But he has used this "foil" to be an attention whore and cop out of doing anything else so far. Not town play.
@Palmar, let's assume Acro is the leading lynch candidate but your vote could choose somebody else to lynch. Who would you lynch instead of Acro, that isn't Sent?
Palmar's entire post history seems to be super focused on this policy lynch of Sent -- that's it. Town Reads HF, Town Reads Acro. He's not wanting to scum hunt on day 1, but go all in on a policy lynch. I don't think I mind having a strong conviction about the policy lynch, but I think I do mind only green reading other people and only pushing your one policy lynch.
I think Palmar is scum.
I like Rayn's read on Palmar, ironically, cause I think they're both scum.
Palmar not playing on a weekend is Palmar-y. Palmar playing is Palmar-y. This half and half stuff I wouldn't trust with a 10-foot pole and I hate how much support he's gotten. I also hate that some of that is probably from shit town who just see the shiny name and go oh, Palmar, he's a god, let's check our brains at the door.
-cocks head at- So you've decided to play rather than whine about people saying a person who was only posting images was a good vig target?
So this post just makes me want to facepalm. Why? Because she basically just said because its Palmar hes mafia. Because he has any support hes mafia. More important she is bothered by the name he has and blames shit town for trying to vote him into the slot of mayor. Now we know that Palmar flipped town. So those people that voted for him clearly arent as shit as this read of hers is. Next thing with this is she doesn't decide to hard push her own reads instead she SHEEPS unto the BH bandwagon. The thing that gets me about this is this. SHE SAYS SHE THINKS HE IS TOWN AND STILL WANTS TO LYNCH HIM.
Why the fuck do you ever want to kill a town read? Like seriously. Why would you lynch someone you believe to be town. She has scumreads for fucks sake. Was active enough to push them. Instead lets push a town read for information because the potential information is better than offing a scum. Jesus fuck.
On March 06 2019 04:01 rsoultin wrote: Also, for the record, though I'm mocking the auto-lynch mindset perpetuated by people who can't think for themselves, a BH flip is still best for everyone and 100% should be facilitated before day phase so the idiots can have a chance to check their idiocy. Not that I'm holding my breath.
You want to lynch someone you think is town...,.......................... .
Yes that's what this post clearly meant good job proving why it's pointless for me to explain reads with this level of reading comprehension floating around the thread.
I just see things so scummy sometimes that I stare at my phone in disbelief.
You suggesting to lynch someone that is town to help clear the air is either scum motivated at best and at worst idiotic.
l2r
That post imo also sheds potential like on Iamp being killed. To my reading he was the only one to call her out for it..
This is mainly from a filter dive. Everything in it screams of someone coming in and skirting activity while posting nothing of substance. Hell he never comes into the thread and express a real reason or read to his vote on Trfel. Just sheeped onto it like nothing ever happened. Hell the only real time Tumblewood even expressed a read on Trfel it was a town read. So he sheeped a wagon to off a person he believed was town. Again, no fucking reason to do this ever. Clearly red.
Whatever the particulars of the bad Palmar scumread, I still think this is easily the most compelling reason for the HF scum case:
On March 06 2019 09:38 Blazinghand wrote: HF why did you claim a shot on me?
Here's a theory as to why HF did this. It is because he is scum.
In the Scum QT: Holyflare: Hey guys, the deadline is coming up. We know a vigi is going to shoot Blazinghand, and then probably claim after the daypost. Other Scums: yeah, sounds accurate to me. Holyflare: then Blazinghand will flip town, and i'm going to look real bad. Other Scums: oh no! Holyflare: ok, but here's the plan. I'm going to, right before the end of the night, with second on the clock, claim that I'm the vigi and am shooting BH. Other Scums: why would you do this HF? we're not shooting BH... Holflare: see, a vigi is going to shoot Blazinghand, and I will get autolynched D2 unless I can pose as the vigi who shot him. This will allow me to get in one more mislynch, as people will trust me. If the real vigi counterclaims, that's still a better situation than if I never claimed in the first place and just let myself get autolynched. Other Scums: good idea
Then, for some reason, I didn't get shot, and now HF has to just pretend he never claimed he was shooting me
HF has largely abandoned his provably false ideas of "well, I couldn't change the mayor lynch" given the way the mayor lynch is received mechanically and the fact he was in thread and watched and commented on the shenannnies as they went down. Just for killing Palmar is he scum? eh, maybe not. But for lying about it, then slithering away from the lie when called out? oh yeah baby
I will quite literally quote my mod PM post game to prove it. Please stop posting this trash. I stand by my statement that it was locked in before I could say anything.
You keep bringing this up as if it means something to us. There's gonna be some host wifom here, but not a lot:
1. I know Kita and dandel and don't think they're dicks. If you PM'd them after the vote shenanigans and said you wanted to kill BH, I'll believe they'd allow it. So based on that I believe the PM was never sent. And the PM you will show us post-game is your role PM saying you win with scum.
2. If this were true, and Kita didn't let you change the target, why'd we have to drag it out of you? It would literally be the first thing out of mouth post-flip: "shit, tried to change it, but wasn't allowed to". It would even have made sense with your "I didn't kill Palmar" post. But you didn't say anything. You didn't even say anything when called out on your troll post. This "I tried to change it but couldn't" narrative only came wayyyyy later. In fact, your whole behavior around the flip is what makes me quite sure you're scum: first the troll post makes it clear you aren't worried about your decision. Then the flip and the feels there are that you are gloating. Not shocked at how wrong you were and killed a fellow town leader.
On March 05 2019 09:38 Holyflare wrote: You guys knew what you were voting for :D
Go die, scum.
No, they're not dicks. I PMd them to lynch Palmar on the flight home. When the flip happened kita PMd me saying palmar is now the lynch. I probably could have PMd saying that I'd rather switch to BH and probably should have but:
A) i thought the flip was literally going to happen straight away
B) I was too tired to even care
C) I wanted to lynch palmar anyway
You don't have to care about these series of events but if what it takes is cheating to make people actually play the game and talk about scum reads that aren't me I'm not above doing it. There's no banlist and it's the last game ever.
Maybe then you'd actually have to produce some content that isn't rhetoric about lynching me.
On March 06 2019 05:52 LightningStrike wrote: Guys we lynching HF because of him killing Palmar over BH who was the opposite wagon of Tfrel was so antitown that I don't think he would do that as Town in that situation. I don't think a town HF is that big of an idiot to use the mayor lynch on a very active Palmar like that.
Also his slipperiness on why he did this. It's not just that he promised, as he now claims, he was previously saying he got caught off guard and couldn't change it in time.
Also pls vigi me
This is true and I will prove it, just after the game.
Shocker I know right? The guy literally led us down a wrong path all fucking game. He has lied by his own admission multiple times. He claimed he would mayor lynch Sentinel, then Palmar. Said he wasn't serious on the Palmar lynch, then says he lies a few hours before deadline and offs Palmar who flips backup cop. He said he shot BH then claimed that he only did so to create tension in the thread. However his outrage about the game being full of blues seems one that an angry mafia could make. The other thing that gets me about his lying is he claims that he couldnt change his mayor vote because it was locked in while being insanely active right at the time the lynch was happening so could have changed it had he wished but claimed
On March 05 2019 09:41 Holyflare wrote: for the record if I knew bh was not getting lynched I would have absolutely switched it to him but it was already locked in
how is it locked in ?
that makes no sense you could have changed
I don't think so? I PMd it saying lynch palmar a long time ago when it was called for in the thread and when the deadline came I was told it was palmar selected. Didn't really get given any other opportunity but it is what it is.
Unless things have drastically changed since I played this game. If you had any action you could take whatsoever you could change it more than once before a deadline hit. So if this has changed feel free to correct me but until then this is a straight up fucking lie.
Next few thing that gets me however that stood out after a filter dive is this.
On March 04 2019 00:55 rsoultin wrote: The whole thing where LS's only 'scumread' out of 34 other people is MZ, and then he wants to kill Koshi screams to me of a Koshi that rolled scum and told his buddies to just lynch him.
If LS flips scum, MZ probably is scum, too, so that's three right there.
On March 04 2019 00:55 rsoultin wrote: The whole thing where LS's only 'scumread' out of 34 other people is MZ, and then he wants to kill Koshi screams to me of a Koshi that rolled scum and told his buddies to just lynch him.
If LS flips scum, MZ probably is scum, too, so that's three right there.
Koshi is confirmed town though so it's ok.
HOW THE FUCK IS HE CONFIRMED TOWN? HE NEVER FUCKING POSTED THIS ENTIRE GAME?
On March 04 2019 00:58 Holyflare wrote: Magic LightningStrike, magic
This exchange right here. How if a player who hasn't posted at that point in time even remotely close to being considered confirmed town? The only way that you would know this is if you actually knew his alignment.
Another gem. To discredit Palmar he uses this as one of his reasons to discredit him.
Can you really trust Palmar as mayor when he's not even top 7?
Bashing a player based on stats out of game rather than in game play? If you honestly believe (based on stats) that you are a better player than someone why do you need to bring that up as your reason? Should be good enough to win an election based on pure skill.
On March 05 2019 08:23 Holyflare wrote: Arbitrary list. Please tell me which of the ones I haven't read should be read asap. Bit annoying the bottom half of the player list has a lot of scummy people to read. I cba writing anymore so close to deadline.
tubesock (Could be wrong on him but his filter seems clean and he's making his own conclusions (albeit just on trfel, but trfel is the new flavour of the month and he was first so looks ok)
Fecalfeast (Don't hate anything he's said. In fact on page 2 of his filter everything he says there kind of aligns with what I've been thinking. His vote platform seems carefree and like he doesn't really give a shit, just wants to do his own thing. Very acro focused but not in an awful way. Content seems minimal though so he's not up at town.
Null
Onegu (legit has done 0 things)
Mr. Wiggles (seems resolute in looking at unturned stones, could just be blending but seems ok(?) Asked me to look into one of the T guys (tube?) but he didn't look bad in his filter at all so dropped to null)
WaveofShadow I want to believe Wave has a lack of emotion but he's done this exact thing of lurking and feigning before. I'd find it hard to motivate myself if I rolled mafia in this big game after a massive break like him too He hasn't got anything to go on really. Scummy just appearing.
Ace (Really has achieved not much. Voted me for mayor which is a big + and the things he says aren't not-towny in a vacuum but until he reaches a conclusion and votes not a placeholder for lynch there's really nothing to go on. Has weird posts in relation to BH when he hasn't really commented on much of the game apart from that)
Oatsmaster (don't hate his new direction - which is still seemingly every direction - but he's digging at least)
Tictock (This would absolutely be in the lower categories if it wasn't for his big appeal to emotion post against me which I have a big weakness for. I don't like that he decided to do the catch up style this game. He misses questions aimed towards him, gave up the style and ignored the pages in between. His logic has been wonky on a lot of people's posts and he seems to make a determined decision on someone's alignment and then make a narrative without weighing up both sides. But that AtE post though....)
ExO_ When reading through the thread there was a discussion that exo was present for and he kept asking random questions and not really interacting with it and I voted him for it. Upon reading his filter I got a completely different clean impression so he's in a null placeholder until I re-read that whole time he was in thread.
Scum-ish
Tumblewood (looks very low effort, may be mistaken on this though but it's a lot of questions that don't end up much of anywhere and lots of seemingly sentiment following on mayor lynches)
Trfel (Feel disgusting doing this (putting him in null) after he scum reads sentinel for something that happened almost 72 hours ago but I don't think he says he doesn't think Oats is posting like mafia and then backtracks and votes for him as mafia. That seems like something he'd be too self conscious to do. But then he says things like "oats (pressure vote)" as if he never meant it so this started as null but it's actually now scum-ish)
Acrofales (This dude has looked scummy quite a lot. First was when he said he was sheeping Palmar because he trusted him more to find scum while scum reading the person I wanted to lynch. Then he said I didn't look that great because I was scum reading Oats for bad reasons and then he made a list of why Oats was scum which was entirely made up of my reasons. Then I said I scum read rayn and he said he doesn't scum read rayn. When Palmar came with a bs reason to scum read rayn Acro basically reneged on his plan to vote me because he agreed that Rayn looked like mafia when nothing from rayn had happened in between. Every time I think about these occurrences it makes me want to drop him down further. Don't ask me why I don't. He has ok looking breakthroughs every now and again)
raynpelikoneet Talked through me. Ignroed rsoultin. Disappeared and reappeared to appeal to me and vote palmar/(think he disliked acro too). Conflicted heavily at the moment.
Scum
Blazinghand (No RNG, no posts of content. Just doing whatever to seem like the good towny martyr. I think I've seen him do this exact play before as mafia.)
Mocsta (This dude, does anyone know where his head is at? I sure don't. He +1s my post scum reading Palmar, gets in a shit show with Palmar and then somehow bows down to him after having a meltdown like 2.4 seconds before over Palmar's really weak Conversion read????????????? Just read his filter progression with me and Palmar and be prepared to go "What?")
Palmar - (wishy washy Iamp post, wishy washy Acro post. I call him out that he has no solid scum reads and he has to hunker down and scum read someone. Defaults to Sentinel still, can't see any motivation from sentinel other than scum motivation. He then makes some bs analysis of the wagons acknowledging that his wagon is the most scum motivated one to follow but doesn't use that to reevaluate anything and doesn't question which of the people on the wagon are scummy. He defends Pandain who has literally posted nothing but coaching.
Makes a movement for Rayn to be mafia based on Rayn's activity which hasn't meant anything since a long time now. Doesn't even get what Rayn said correct.
Doesn't even know what Damdred/Rsoul posted about LS. Not interested in figuring out game, instead tried to use others to prove his point.
Wants to vote Conversion because Conversion was lazy but attributes it to mafia motivation instead of just someone being lazy. That's the crux of his entire read. Fakes some floundering on it when Conversion posts some irl excuse, seems pretty forced.
After nothing in between Conversion drops off max scum vote list and is replaced with lurker and policy lynch. Not great at all.)
LightningStrike (No scum reads. Only mentioned MZ once or twice but never really actually said anything about him of substance. Rage quit from the thread but still votes and still afks in the background. He finds it really hard to write scum reads as scum because it's against his nature. He hasn't done the characteristic "these two are fighting so one of them is mafia" post that he always does as town. He hasn't really given anything to go on. Rage seemed forced. He's fucking voting Palmar, jeeeeezzuusss.)
Chezinu (This is without reading his filter and just off memory alone. He does not seem to be having fun, his RP posts are quite devoid of anything entertaining. He's been trying to determine if I'm blue. He has been actually posting reads and being serious which is a complete juxtaposition to any time I've ever ever seen Chezinu been town (or really mafia either) but from what I can see there seems to be agenda in Chez. I will update this on actually reading him because I can't remember a single one of his reads.
Now you may look at this and go “wtf why choose this post” However look at it. His confirmed 100% town were both capped and flipped green but one of his strongest scum reads and heavily leaned scum reads both flipped town. Meaning the only place he has been correct is where he places town reads. 1 of which he had a read on 100% before the player posted. Seems super fucking fishy.
She was on my radar day 1 as well. This shouldn't be a surprise.
1) She makes posts like this
On March 02 2019 20:35 rsoultin wrote: Like for me it breaks down like this:
You've got trolling people. You've got lurking people. You've got lazy people. You've got some overly aggressives that aren't giving me warm fuzzies (MP). You've got people I'm not sure about who when I'm not sure about them have a nasty habit of being scum (Rayn) but because he's burned me so often I'm not sure if that's not where the uncertainty's coming from.
And then you have seemingly excited to play, I respect the shit out of his intelligence Chez playing but not saying anything interesting. That first group can hide a lot of bad town play. But doing something without doing anything ticks off my scum meter to a higher degree.
Now what gets me from this is the characterization that Chez wasn't saying anything interesting. He was roleplaying sure, but he also had a string of very useful posts that weren't roleplay at all. As someone who dislikes lazy people, and trolling people perhaps doing a proper analysis of someones posting history to that point would you know? Non hypocritical.
On March 02 2019 20:58 rsoultin wrote: What are your reads that don't matter BC?
This was another read flag for me. A read that doesn't matter? Why would you ever want someone to actively give you information that is useless? Anyone can give a read but to provide no substance or reasoning for it is just useless and scummy. Asking for that info is just as bad.
Now the next things for me are this.
Chez is her #1 scum read. Rather than heavily pushing this (will admit she made an analysis post on him) She then waffles off wanting to off him (no real reason I could spot) then starts randomly sheeping other peoples reads
On March 03 2019 20:12 Palmar wrote: To be fair I mostly like Acro just for these two posts. They're the logical way to play the game.
Kill the policy lynch, continue playing.
On March 03 2019 17:09 Acrofales wrote: Enters Palmar: he claims to feel strongly about killing sent. So let him do it. All you need to decide is if Palmar is townie enough. But if we decide Palmar is townie enough to be mayor then he is free to kill whoever he likes. He sticks with sentinel and sentinel flips scum? We win, yay! Sheep Palmar into Armageddon. Sentinel flips town? We figure out if Palmars policy lynch is an ideological thing or a scum thing. Either way, we get information about Palmar out of this, which is a great thing to get out of D1.
On March 03 2019 17:11 Acrofales wrote: Oh, also, if sent was actually playing and being townie, I'd be more inclined to want him to live. But he has used this "foil" to be an attention whore and cop out of doing anything else so far. Not town play.
@Palmar, let's assume Acro is the leading lynch candidate but your vote could choose somebody else to lynch. Who would you lynch instead of Acro, that isn't Sent?
Palmar's entire post history seems to be super focused on this policy lynch of Sent -- that's it. Town Reads HF, Town Reads Acro. He's not wanting to scum hunt on day 1, but go all in on a policy lynch. I don't think I mind having a strong conviction about the policy lynch, but I think I do mind only green reading other people and only pushing your one policy lynch.
I think Palmar is scum.
I like Rayn's read on Palmar, ironically, cause I think they're both scum.
Palmar not playing on a weekend is Palmar-y. Palmar playing is Palmar-y. This half and half stuff I wouldn't trust with a 10-foot pole and I hate how much support he's gotten. I also hate that some of that is probably from shit town who just see the shiny name and go oh, Palmar, he's a god, let's check our brains at the door.
-cocks head at- So you've decided to play rather than whine about people saying a person who was only posting images was a good vig target?
So this post just makes me want to facepalm. Why? Because she basically just said because its Palmar hes mafia. Because he has any support hes mafia. More important she is bothered by the name he has and blames shit town for trying to vote him into the slot of mayor. Now we know that Palmar flipped town. So those people that voted for him clearly arent as shit as this read of hers is. Next thing with this is she doesn't decide to hard push her own reads instead she SHEEPS unto the BH bandwagon. The thing that gets me about this is this. SHE SAYS SHE THINKS HE IS TOWN AND STILL WANTS TO LYNCH HIM.
Why the fuck do you ever want to kill a town read? Like seriously. Why would you lynch someone you believe to be town. She has scumreads for fucks sake. Was active enough to push them. Instead lets push a town read for information because the potential information is better than offing a scum. Jesus fuck.
On March 06 2019 04:01 rsoultin wrote: Also, for the record, though I'm mocking the auto-lynch mindset perpetuated by people who can't think for themselves, a BH flip is still best for everyone and 100% should be facilitated before day phase so the idiots can have a chance to check their idiocy. Not that I'm holding my breath.
You want to lynch someone you think is town...,.......................... .
Yes that's what this post clearly meant good job proving why it's pointless for me to explain reads with this level of reading comprehension floating around the thread.
I just see things so scummy sometimes that I stare at my phone in disbelief.
You suggesting to lynch someone that is town to help clear the air is either scum motivated at best and at worst idiotic.
l2r
That post imo also sheds potential like on Iamp being killed. To my reading he was the only one to call her out for it..
This is mainly from a filter dive. Everything in it screams of someone coming in and skirting activity while posting nothing of substance. Hell he never comes into the thread and express a real reason or read to his vote on Trfel. Just sheeped onto it like nothing ever happened. Hell the only real time Tumblewood even expressed a read on Trfel it was a town read. So he sheeped a wagon to off a person he believed was town. Again, no fucking reason to do this ever. Clearly red.
Whatever the particulars of the bad Palmar scumread, I still think this is easily the most compelling reason for the HF scum case:
On March 06 2019 09:38 Blazinghand wrote: HF why did you claim a shot on me?
Here's a theory as to why HF did this. It is because he is scum.
In the Scum QT: Holyflare: Hey guys, the deadline is coming up. We know a vigi is going to shoot Blazinghand, and then probably claim after the daypost. Other Scums: yeah, sounds accurate to me. Holyflare: then Blazinghand will flip town, and i'm going to look real bad. Other Scums: oh no! Holyflare: ok, but here's the plan. I'm going to, right before the end of the night, with second on the clock, claim that I'm the vigi and am shooting BH. Other Scums: why would you do this HF? we're not shooting BH... Holflare: see, a vigi is going to shoot Blazinghand, and I will get autolynched D2 unless I can pose as the vigi who shot him. This will allow me to get in one more mislynch, as people will trust me. If the real vigi counterclaims, that's still a better situation than if I never claimed in the first place and just let myself get autolynched. Other Scums: good idea
Then, for some reason, I didn't get shot, and now HF has to just pretend he never claimed he was shooting me
HF has largely abandoned his provably false ideas of "well, I couldn't change the mayor lynch" given the way the mayor lynch is received mechanically and the fact he was in thread and watched and commented on the shenannnies as they went down. Just for killing Palmar is he scum? eh, maybe not. But for lying about it, then slithering away from the lie when called out? oh yeah baby
I will quite literally quote my mod PM post game to prove it. Please stop posting this trash. I stand by my statement that it was locked in before I could say anything.
On March 05 2019 01:01 kitaman27 wrote: In case there was any confusion regarding the mechanics of the mayor lynch, the night post will be delayed until the mayor submits their lynch. If the leading candidates do not anticipate being around for the deadline and want to submit their lynch via PM ahead of time, that is fine. The game will be paused until the mayor lynch has been submitted and then the night post will be posted, revealing the alignments and roles of both lynched players.
Holyflare where in this does it say that you can’t change your lynch
Can we just fucking drop this and I will prove it to you after the game?
So we have Holyflare claiming he would absolutely 100% have changed his vote, but he couldn't. We have no evidence pointing to say that he couldn't. And we have Holyflare claiming that he didn't want to change his vote anyway. We also have him claiming he was too tired, despite not going to bed until at least 2 hours later:
On March 05 2019 10:50 Holyflare wrote: Stuff
So Holyflare is just throwing reasons around for why he ended up killing Palmar, and definitely can't keep is story straight. What is it? Was it locked in? Or did he not even try? Don't bother answering, as the answer doesn't really matter. The point of this exchange is that holyflare was waffling. And when he got caught wafffling, he started to mix up the story.
This is because the entire story was made up in the first place. Holyflare never had the slightest intent of switching to him, as exhibited by the timeline above. Holyflare was here and active, and was even trolling us about killing or not killing Palmar. Which brings us to exhibit B.
Exhibit B: the post-flip victory dance Your honor, I call my first witness Dr. P. S. Ychologist. Now bear with me, this will be a bit long. But at the end it will be demonstrated beyond a doubt that the motive for killing Palmar can only come from mafia.
Dr. Ychologist, what do you think of Holyflare's personality? "Well, I don't know the young man very well, but everything I have seen about him is that he suffers from the narcissistic egomaniac syndrome"
Ah. And what does this mean? "It means that he cannot fathom that the world does not revolve around him. He cannot be wrong, nor can it be that someone else is perhaps held in higher esteem at any point. I would like to add that this is being generous. If the young man is perchance not an egomaniac then there is absolutely no way we could possibly explain his behaviour as upright. Egomania is a serious disorder, but not necessarily mafia."
Okay, so you believe holyflare's mindset is that of a mafioso, despite his disorder, and not because of it. "That is correct."
Right. But why? "Well, let us imagine we are the young accused. It is almost flip time and the mayor vote cannot possibly elude him. He is feeling empowered, ya? He is the king of town, and he has found a scum Palmar."
Wait. As an egomaniac does he care that Palmar is scum? Or does he only care that Palmar was a competitor? "We have questioned the accused, and present the transcripts. There is no doubt about his claims: he says he believed the victim to be a mafioso"
On March 06 2019 22:01 Tubesock wrote: I’d scum the shit out if HF if he platformed killing Palmar, cased and scumread him, and didn’t kill him. Maybe MAYBE not if he killed scum instead. I think I’d still think he could be scum for killing a lurker mafia.
To me the ONLY plausible reason to scumread HF is because he said he tried to change it. And even that is 50/50 really. Everything else he’s done has been good for town.
People say he has a big ego, you think he thought Palmar was scum and wouldn’t shoot for epic plays???
You voters should be arguing that HF didn’t really believe his Palmar case.
But you can’t cause he did.
This! This is the thing that makes all "HF is scum" believers either retards or mafia.
You're scumming me, but I literally did that.
On March 06 2019 20:50 Acrofales wrote:
I know you're new here, but what the hell is this? Doing "specifically pro-mafia stuff" is stuff town doesn't do. You say it's a bad read, but him killing Palmar was almost entirely off his ego being too big for Palmar to beat him in a mayor election. There isn't even any townie reasoning there, it is entirely based on "goal 1": the town isn't big enough for the two of them, so he kills Palmar. It wasn't a "bad read". It wasn't a read at all.
I don't have time right now to collect all my notes in one place, but this is clearly important. So here is his Palmar case:
On March 04 2019 18:14 Holyflare wrote:
On March 04 2019 18:09 Jockmcplop wrote:
On March 04 2019 18:07 Holyflare wrote: My mayor lynch will be on Palmar by the way.
I can get behind this, but what's the reasoning behind it?
Only talks about town reads, has no suspicions on pretty much anything in the game. Perpetuates nonsense policy lynch after he likes Sentinel's effort when he hasn't even read it. His last post about acro is entirely a wall of hedge whereby he looks like he's falsely weighing up Acro's alignment but really it's wishy washy and says nothing.
His iamp read looks completely bs too for similar reasons to his acro read. Iamp is town but wait here's reasons I can say he's not town later in the game.
None of this is concrete town palmar stuff. There's also the fact we can acknowledge that mafia were pushing for his candidacy if he does flip mafia
This was on sunday evening, when he was mostly right that Palmar hadn't played much yet. But they were both around all of monday, and nothing happened except HF's ego got more hurt:
On March 05 2019 06:38 Holyflare wrote: Palmar (11): Palmar, Ticktock, Meapak_Zipphh, Acrofales, Vivax, WaveofShadow, Grackaroni, Conversion, Alakaslam, Trfel, Blazinghand
How has this guy got 11 people voting for him when his sole policy is only to kill Sentinel who doesn't even look bad?
Almost the entirety, if not THE entirety of this wagon is the sketchiest people in this game. It's even growing!
And this one is blatantly false:
On March 05 2019 07:18 Holyflare wrote: Especially now that more people are actually voting him when he has said nothing else of value.
Like... I did the exercise at the time, and tried to read Palmar as scum. I got through the weekend thinking he might be right, because Palmar posted a policy lynch and a bunch of town reads. I did find he was throwing off townie vibes, but figured it might have been him throwing me a green read to bedazzle me. But all of monday (the above post is made an hour and a bit before deadline), Palmar was deep diving people, engaging people, and hunting scum. Classifying that as "nothing of value" is nonsense.
So no, HF really didn't have much of a case on Palmar at all. Definitely not one that shows conviction, and certainly not one where he is trying to actually figure out if he's right or not. He parked the case on Sunday evening and didn't bother analysing anything Palmar did all of Monday.
Now I get that HF is apparently an egomaniac, but he is completely uncritical of his read. He doesn't return to it, just reiterates any time anybody asks that he will kill Palmar. Lamp and Koshi come to their own conclusions of Palmar. They were obviously wrong, but you can see their thought process and you can see Koshi engage with Palmar about it. Not so at all with HF.
This is pretty misconstrued. Who did Palmar want to kill other than sentinel? Who the fuck knows until right near deadline where he finally posted something and also spammed wiggles. This also isn't all I posted in the slightest:
On March 05 2019 09:53 marvellosity wrote: HF mate, why did you actually kill Palmar?
I don't want a quote from your posts, just the actual reason(s)
? I thought his early posts were colossally bad. I didn't like how he kept coming up with reasons to read people one way or another that on closer inspection turned out to be massively false and then he'd just brush it away.
This happened with:
Rayn - where he came up with some factually incorrect meta and falsehoods in this game that got disproved and then called out by Rayn himself and Palmar just hand waved it away
LS read - where he tried to further his incorrect point that he must be right on LS because rsoul and damdred agreed with him (and also therefore damdred must be town because they agreed on LS(????????????????)). It turned out neither of them really agreed anymore but he didn't update that read on damdred
At the time I submitted the vote on palmar he had only 2 real attempts at scum reads and they turned out to be hedges instead on both acro and iamp so he really had no scum reads. He only started trying to scum read people after I called him out on it.
Outside of Palmar himself there was an overwhelming wagon building on Palmar's mayorship out of nowhere. He had only stated that he was going to lynch sentinel and then after Sentinel posted not bad walls of text he never updated that read. His wagon kept growing but with nobody really casting doubt on Sentinel further (other than like 1-2 people) so Palmar seemed to be in direct contention with my mayor votes for absolutely no reason whatsoever (I even had sentinel as my lynch policy for a long while).
I ultimately ended up still lynching Palmar:
A) because my vote was locked in and I never really got to change it to BH when your slot and vivax saved him
B) I would much rather have fun with a lynch on a really polarising player to lynch instead of some shitty policy lynch anyway that may or may not have actually turned into a scum BH. We now have about 100 different reads on this lynch and we have the flip to boot. It wouldn't have been the same if Palmar didn't flip either.
I was tempted to vote some non-entity but that's really really fucking boring and wouldn't be fun.
Palmar - (wishy washy Iamp post, wishy washy Acro post. I call him out that he has no solid scum reads and he has to hunker down and scum read someone. Defaults to Sentinel still, can't see any motivation from sentinel other than scum motivation. He then makes some bs analysis of the wagons acknowledging that his wagon is the most scum motivated one to follow but doesn't use that to reevaluate anything and doesn't question which of the people on the wagon are scummy. He defends Pandain who has literally posted nothing but coaching.
Makes a movement for Rayn to be mafia based on Rayn's activity which hasn't meant anything since a long time now. Doesn't even get what Rayn said correct.
Doesn't even know what Damdred/Rsoul posted about LS. Not interested in figuring out game, instead tried to use others to prove his point.
Wants to vote Conversion because Conversion was lazy but attributes it to mafia motivation instead of just someone being lazy. That's the crux of his entire read. Fakes some floundering on it when Conversion posts some irl excuse, seems pretty forced.
After nothing in between Conversion drops off max scum vote list and is replaced with lurker and policy lynch. Not great at all.)
"When further pressed upon this matter he let there be no doubt he absolutely believed Palmar to be a mafioso at the time"
On March 06 2019 22:01 Tubesock wrote: I’d scum the shit out if HF if he platformed killing Palmar, cased and scumread him, and didn’t kill him. Maybe MAYBE not if he killed scum instead. I think I’d still think he could be scum for killing a lurker mafia.
To me the ONLY plausible reason to scumread HF is because he said he tried to change it. And even that is 50/50 really. Everything else he’s done has been good for town.
People say he has a big ego, you think he thought Palmar was scum and wouldn’t shoot for epic plays???
You voters should be arguing that HF didn’t really believe his Palmar case.
But you can’t cause he did.
This! This is the thing that makes all "HF is scum" believers either retards or mafia.
You're scumming me, but I literally did that.
On March 06 2019 20:50 Acrofales wrote:
I know you're new here, but what the hell is this? Doing "specifically pro-mafia stuff" is stuff town doesn't do. You say it's a bad read, but him killing Palmar was almost entirely off his ego being too big for Palmar to beat him in a mayor election. There isn't even any townie reasoning there, it is entirely based on "goal 1": the town isn't big enough for the two of them, so he kills Palmar. It wasn't a "bad read". It wasn't a read at all.
I don't have time right now to collect all my notes in one place, but this is clearly important. So here is his Palmar case:
On March 04 2019 18:14 Holyflare wrote:
On March 04 2019 18:09 Jockmcplop wrote:
On March 04 2019 18:07 Holyflare wrote: My mayor lynch will be on Palmar by the way.
I can get behind this, but what's the reasoning behind it?
Only talks about town reads, has no suspicions on pretty much anything in the game. Perpetuates nonsense policy lynch after he likes Sentinel's effort when he hasn't even read it. His last post about acro is entirely a wall of hedge whereby he looks like he's falsely weighing up Acro's alignment but really it's wishy washy and says nothing.
His iamp read looks completely bs too for similar reasons to his acro read. Iamp is town but wait here's reasons I can say he's not town later in the game.
None of this is concrete town palmar stuff. There's also the fact we can acknowledge that mafia were pushing for his candidacy if he does flip mafia
This was on sunday evening, when he was mostly right that Palmar hadn't played much yet. But they were both around all of monday, and nothing happened except HF's ego got more hurt:
On March 05 2019 06:38 Holyflare wrote: Palmar (11): Palmar, Ticktock, Meapak_Zipphh, Acrofales, Vivax, WaveofShadow, Grackaroni, Conversion, Alakaslam, Trfel, Blazinghand
How has this guy got 11 people voting for him when his sole policy is only to kill Sentinel who doesn't even look bad?
Almost the entirety, if not THE entirety of this wagon is the sketchiest people in this game. It's even growing!
And this one is blatantly false:
On March 05 2019 07:18 Holyflare wrote: Especially now that more people are actually voting him when he has said nothing else of value.
Like... I did the exercise at the time, and tried to read Palmar as scum. I got through the weekend thinking he might be right, because Palmar posted a policy lynch and a bunch of town reads. I did find he was throwing off townie vibes, but figured it might have been him throwing me a green read to bedazzle me. But all of monday (the above post is made an hour and a bit before deadline), Palmar was deep diving people, engaging people, and hunting scum. Classifying that as "nothing of value" is nonsense.
So no, HF really didn't have much of a case on Palmar at all. Definitely not one that shows conviction, and certainly not one where he is trying to actually figure out if he's right or not. He parked the case on Sunday evening and didn't bother analysing anything Palmar did all of Monday.
Now I get that HF is apparently an egomaniac, but he is completely uncritical of his read. He doesn't return to it, just reiterates any time anybody asks that he will kill Palmar. Lamp and Koshi come to their own conclusions of Palmar. They were obviously wrong, but you can see their thought process and you can see Koshi engage with Palmar about it. Not so at all with HF.
This is pretty misconstrued. Who did Palmar want to kill other than sentinel? Who the fuck knows until right near deadline where he finally posted something and also spammed wiggles. This also isn't all I posted in the slightest:
On March 05 2019 10:03 Holyflare wrote:
On March 05 2019 09:53 marvellosity wrote: HF mate, why did you actually kill Palmar?
I don't want a quote from your posts, just the actual reason(s)
? I thought his early posts were colossally bad. I didn't like how he kept coming up with reasons to read people one way or another that on closer inspection turned out to be massively false and then he'd just brush it away.
This happened with:
Rayn - where he came up with some factually incorrect meta and falsehoods in this game that got disproved and then called out by Rayn himself and Palmar just hand waved it away
LS read - where he tried to further his incorrect point that he must be right on LS because rsoul and damdred agreed with him (and also therefore damdred must be town because they agreed on LS(????????????????)). It turned out neither of them really agreed anymore but he didn't update that read on damdred
At the time I submitted the vote on palmar he had only 2 real attempts at scum reads and they turned out to be hedges instead on both acro and iamp so he really had no scum reads. He only started trying to scum read people after I called him out on it.
Outside of Palmar himself there was an overwhelming wagon building on Palmar's mayorship out of nowhere. He had only stated that he was going to lynch sentinel and then after Sentinel posted not bad walls of text he never updated that read. His wagon kept growing but with nobody really casting doubt on Sentinel further (other than like 1-2 people) so Palmar seemed to be in direct contention with my mayor votes for absolutely no reason whatsoever (I even had sentinel as my lynch policy for a long while).
I ultimately ended up still lynching Palmar:
A) because my vote was locked in and I never really got to change it to BH when your slot and vivax saved him
B) I would much rather have fun with a lynch on a really polarising player to lynch instead of some shitty policy lynch anyway that may or may not have actually turned into a scum BH. We now have about 100 different reads on this lynch and we have the flip to boot. It wouldn't have been the same if Palmar didn't flip either.
I was tempted to vote some non-entity but that's really really fucking boring and wouldn't be fun.
Palmar - (wishy washy Iamp post, wishy washy Acro post. I call him out that he has no solid scum reads and he has to hunker down and scum read someone. Defaults to Sentinel still, can't see any motivation from sentinel other than scum motivation. He then makes some bs analysis of the wagons acknowledging that his wagon is the most scum motivated one to follow but doesn't use that to reevaluate anything and doesn't question which of the people on the wagon are scummy. He defends Pandain who has literally posted nothing but coaching.
Makes a movement for Rayn to be mafia based on Rayn's activity which hasn't meant anything since a long time now. Doesn't even get what Rayn said correct.
Doesn't even know what Damdred/Rsoul posted about LS. Not interested in figuring out game, instead tried to use others to prove his point.
Wants to vote Conversion because Conversion was lazy but attributes it to mafia motivation instead of just someone being lazy. That's the crux of his entire read. Fakes some floundering on it when Conversion posts some irl excuse, seems pretty forced.
After nothing in between Conversion drops off max scum vote list and is replaced with lurker and policy lynch. Not great at all.)
The former is literally after the lynch happened. The latter is a list post half an hour before the lynch when you've been harping on about Palmar all day. Both are a posteriori justifications rather than actually engaging him. And in particular the latter about when Palmar started scumhunting is quite blatantly false. But we can argue about that until we're both blue in the face, because you'll probably just "no true Scotsman" his scumhunting, just like rayn just did.
No, it is not false. I called Palmar out with the original paragraph where I said I wanted to lynch him, with which you even explicitly said you agreed with. Then Palmar started scum hunting and I thought everything he said was scummy.
Also how have I not interacted with Palmar? Almost everything in my list post case is because I interacted with Palmar to make him elaborate on those mistakes. Unless now you're adding another reason that me being on holiday and not formulating everything into one central place until I actually had time to on a PC is scummy?
So there is no doubt this was not just done for the lolz? "No. Even though the lolz might have figured into the kill. He claims he was doing it in order to rid Liquidia of scum"
This seems like a very noble deed. But it is not true, is it? "Unfortunately not. To see why, we need to analyse the young man's behaviour when the deed was done. The accused was cocky. He was even --- what do the kids these days call it? --- trolling. Let us be charitable and attribute this to the young man being extremely certain he was murdering a mafioso."
On March 05 2019 08:32 Trfel wrote: STILL NO ONE HAS SAID A SINGLE THING TO ME
NOT ONE EXPLANATION OF WHY I AM MAFIA NOT ONE QUESTION NOTHING
Do you realize what is happening? If I'm lynched, fine, whatever, but someone acknowledge my existence please!
I think you are mafia and I told you why.
Disconnect in every other post you made. That is enough.
Show me the disconnects, that's simply not true. I already explained the two disconnects that exist. If you show me more I can explain them too, nothing even has merit except for those two.
@Holyflare, I'd take another look at Fecalfeast and Mocsta. Mocsta's play felt honest and genuine to me, admittedly he hasn't done much but I don't think that's mafia indicative. I know that Fecalfeast enjoys playing scum (heck he has one of the highest mafia winrates on the site) and he's relaxed and carefree as mafia, IIRC he's more relaxed and carefree and fun-loving as mafia than town. As mafia he plays to exist and survive, not to push stuff, and that's exactly what he is doing here. Otherwise, just please don't start a big fight between you and raynnpelikoneet or anyone else that causes massive tunnels.
Can you explain the mocsta progression on Palmar then? How can he go from so rage-y and agreeing with my posts against Palmar to suddenly voting Conversion with palmar and agreeing like nothing had happened?
Huh. To be honest I couldn't tell you. I guess never mind me then, I'm still not really convinced he's mafia but I couldn't (and wouldn't) stop anyone who said otherwise.
You and Exo
You guys need to explain your scumread on me
But I don't have a scumread on you?
I'm just trusting Holyflare. The whole saving me thing and all.
Why are you voting to lynch me then?
I'm not? Unless you mean voting Holyflare for mayor, because I trust him to do the right thing. And I kinda expect he won't kill you, but I probably shouldn't say that, it makes him more likely to. But you asked.
I've re-submitted my lynch to Palmar from Palmar.
On March 05 2019 09:00 Holyflare wrote: lol I didn't kill palmar
Now let us skip forward to after young Palmar tragically bled out in the streets of Liquidia and his blood ran blue.
The accused responded with:
On March 05 2019 09:38 Holyflare wrote: You guys knew what you were voting for :D
There is no surprise. No remorse. No self-doubt. Now this could have been explained from a deceipted townsman if he had claimed he was doing it, as they say 'for the lulz'. It would even fit his egomaniac personality to do it only for this reason. But that is not what the accused has claimed. So let us put ourselves in his shoes for a second: he has been voted 'the blade of Liquidia' and in front of him stands the evil Palmar, lord of scumsters united. He thrusts his blade straight into Palmar's heart and a spurt of blue blood streams out as Palmar yells, with his dying breath + Show Spoiler [I'm a cop you idiot] +
The instinctive reaction of an upright townie who truly believed that Palmar was scum, regardless of narcissism, would be shock, disbelief, remorse. Yet none of that is evident in the accused's reaction. He seems... self-satisfied"
Self-satisfied? "Yes. He doesn't blame himself. He immediately shifts the blame to "those who voted for him". Moreover, he is happy about it, as evidenced by his smiling laugh. This is not the look of a man devastated by his bad choice. This is the look of a man who has pulled off the caper of a century, yet has to somehow dissimulate it all as a big mistake."
Aha. So there is no way this could just be egomaniacal pride about having shiv'd Palmar for the lulz? "It is my informed opinion that that is not possible. He is fully aware that he looks guilty as all hell, yet is somehow still flippant about it:
On March 05 2019 09:39 Holyflare wrote: not mafia tho
Combine this with his insistance that he was scumreading Palmar all game, and it just doesn't add up."
Thank you very much for your help, Dr. Ychologist.
The prosecution rests their case. We deem it shown beyond a shadow of a doubt that holyflare murdered Palmar with mafioso intentions, and we request the maximum penalty: death by lynching.
On March 02 2019 14:30 Tictock wrote: ##Vote: Meapak_Ziphh
On March 02 2019 16:29 sicklucker wrote: ##vote Acrofales
On March 02 2019 17:35 rsoultin wrote: ##Mayor: iamperfection ##vote: Chezinu
On March 02 2019 23:07 Grackaroni wrote: ##Mayor: Vivax
On March 03 2019 02:10 Ace wrote: ##Mayor Tumblewood
On March 03 2019 04:27 Tubesock wrote: ##Mayor: Holyflare
On March 03 2019 04:31 Alakaslam wrote: ##Mayor: HolyFlare ##Vote: Raynpelikoneet
On March 02 2019 11:08 Conversion wrote: ##Vote: Meapak_Ziphh
all not town
So I went and looked back at this for fun,
The people that actually put mayor votes that weren’t themselves really early are Sicklurker Rsoul Grack Ace Tubesock Slam
Hmmm that’s actually a really suspicious list huh
I don't find Grack suspicious anymore and am warming up to SL and a little bit to rsoultin (need to register both of them). Haven't filtered TS in donkeys years. Slam seemed mildly town, but I can't for the life of me say why. But it does actually seem like a good place to start. Bonkers that this heuristic works at all :'D
On March 07 2019 02:48 Rels wrote: this HF situation is annoying. I think he is town. I'm not as sure as rayn and rsoul seems to be, like HF is a super strong scum and could easily do whatever he's done in this game. BUT, him not shitting up the thread feels weird if he's scum. He has the potential to throw the game into chaos easily, like he did when he got red checked in ... Himalayas probably?, saying he's the best lynch while posting a lot, and he is not doing it.
Now. IF HES SCUM AND HE LIVES AND WINS. He's gonna mock me and whoever townread him forever. I know this is a ridiculous way to handle this situation but that's waht I think.
So the solution: he msut be lynched in LYLO. I won't be there to push it probably, but if he's alive in LYLO, no matter what, lynch him. IF YOURE READING THIS DURING LYLO, LYNCH HF IF HES STILL ALIVE
This is a solid approach imo, and kinda jives with where my head is at with HF.
Rels can have a townie-brownie.
Okay let’s take a walkthrough here of the possibilities of Rels alignment
1. Rels is mafia and hf is mafia. HF stays alive for the longest amount of time, good for mafia. 2. Rels is mafia and hf is town. Mafia has like a 100% chance of winning at lylo and Rels gets cred if hf is flipped today anyway.
Where are the downsides of Relsmafia! Proposing this plan?
rels doesn’t want town!HF to clear himself and then be good townie & lynch scum? also do u want to avoid being lynched? b/c there’s no downside of that if ur mafia
Town!hf is never gonna clear himself, let’s be real here.
I don’t get the second question, can you rephrase that?
if you don’t want to be lynched, that seems like a pretty pro-mafia thing to want if you are mafia. and by this i mean your logic only works if you begin with the assumption that rels is mafia.
Nah. He's just pointing out that this whole "plan" is at best not indicative of alignment and you townreading him for it is bad. Don't be bad.
Rels being town or scum cannot be deduced from his bad plan to leave HF alive until lylo.
And anybody who wants a lylo with HF is fucking bonkers.
On March 07 2019 05:19 Vivax wrote: How does the mayor role work ?
He literally explained it in the thread:
On March 05 2019 01:01 kitaman27 wrote: In case there was any confusion regarding the mechanics of the mayor lynch, the night post will be delayed until the mayor submits their lynch. If the leading candidates do not anticipate being around for the deadline and want to submit their lynch via PM ahead of time, that is fine. The game will be paused until the mayor lynch has been submitted and then the night post will be posted, revealing the alignments and roles of both lynched players.
@Acro - when did you decide HF became top priority? he was behind wiggles and sent originally?
On March 05 2019 10:13 Acrofales wrote:
On March 05 2019 10:11 Alakaslam wrote:
On March 05 2019 10:09 Acrofales wrote: Man. This is gonna be a boring few days. We lynch sentinel and wiggles. After that we need to switch our brains back on.
We kill HolyFlare.
Unfortunately no. We don't. Sentinel and Wiggles were exactly as bad, and were also high priority scumreads from the dead town Palmar.
Dunno. Sometime during the night when I read other people's reactions, and reread HF's behavior around the flip. Think WoS said something insightful. I'll try to find it, but let me catch up with the damn thread first before I gotta filter-dive again.
@Acro - when did you decide HF became top priority? he was behind wiggles and sent originally?
On March 05 2019 10:13 Acrofales wrote:
On March 05 2019 10:11 Alakaslam wrote:
On March 05 2019 10:09 Acrofales wrote: Man. This is gonna be a boring few days. We lynch sentinel and wiggles. After that we need to switch our brains back on.
We kill HolyFlare.
Unfortunately no. We don't. Sentinel and Wiggles were exactly as bad, and were also high priority scumreads from the dead town Palmar.
Dunno. Sometime during the night when I read other people's reactions, and reread HF's behavior around the flip. Think WoS said something insightful. I'll try to find it, but let me catch up with the damn thread first before I gotta filter-dive again.
Sure. If it's easier I'm more curious what changed your mind specifically that he was higher priority. I saw where you first said it in your filter and don't need you to filter yourself lol ><
Caught up. But going afk. I owe you this explanation. Lynch me if I don't follow up
K, haven't really caught up with the thread yet. Saw Ace posted a bunch, but he's gone again. He looks like a bad lynch.
I'll get into filtering the ppl I wanted to filter again this afternoon (in a train omw to a meeting right now, so not.much time).
@rsoultin, mocsta and anyone else interested:
My wanting to kill sentinel at night was never my own read. Already hashed that out with rsoultin during the night, so anybody tripping over it (rayn) is just not reading. I was perfectly happy to carry Palmar's torch and blindly sheep Palmar's cases after he flipped. I would have gotten around to having some updated thoughts about him eventually if I hadn't kinda decided that killing HF was more important than killing sentinel or wiggles.
Looking back, that change of priorities is kinda based on two things:
Holyflare's behavior during the night, where he never once showed any shock or surprise over his "scumread" flipping green.
This post:
On March 06 2019 00:23 WaveofShadow wrote: I can already see what's going to happen We end up leaving all the loose ends alive tomorrow because somebody presents something shiny and scum laugh all the way to the bank
Don't lose sight of the goal tomorrow. Idgaf about this mocsta case tbh
I read this and found it to be the essence of the matter. Sentinel and Wiggles are around and have 0 clout. Especially wiggles had barely posted at all by the end of n1. There's no real urgency in lynching them if HF is also scum. Whereas HF has real sway over town, and scum will just keep killing competing town voices until some poor shmuck(s) face the dilemma at lylo. So WoS post hit home and I agreed he had to die first. Ahead of Palmar's targets.
That doesn't mean sentinel or wiggles are off the hook. They're just on pause til HF is dead. I promise to have some original thought on them before I push lynching one or the other tomorrow. Or someone else like rayn. He is super tunneled on me and using it as an excuse to do nothing of value. It isn't helpful to town. You could probably say the same about me and HF, but I'm trying to talk about other people (in fact, since my case, I am purposefully resisting getting dragged back into a conversation about HF so I can catch up on other people).
On March 07 2019 18:04 Holyflare wrote: BH you have an uncanny knack to sound disingenuous with everything you write. How do you do it?
A few days ago I gave up on trying to sound town and just write what I want to write. It's a lot of fun!
It incidentally worked quite well to make you sound town. But I was already on the BH=VT train when you posted your death post. And now we know conversion is town, we know it wasn't a preconstructed scum gambit to gain town credit after vote shenannies saved you.
On March 07 2019 17:41 Holyflare wrote: How active has rels been in qt?
Somewhat. He greeted me enthusiastically, then hasn't done anything unprompted other than tell me to check his filter on sent after last night. Just commented on some reads I put in there.
He disagreed with me on my saying BH's reaction to Iam during D1 looked towny and posted a quote of TT getting emotional saying that he had a good reason to TT. Mentioned being scared of HF. Some other things but what it amounts to is I'm not getting anything volunteered from him he's just reacting to some of my things.
Given we're in different timezones I expected to wake up to something if he really invited me into the QT to try to solve the game together. Even with little time I'd expect more than just commenting on my reads.
Some baseless role speculation here, but while closed, this is still a normal game. And masoner is a mostly town role. Based on this alone, I'd say rels is town.
If anyone else got masoner, it'd be a great opportunity to speak up tho, as two masoners makes one of them more likely scum. Often a scum masoner is added to balance out the ability to just blindly townread the masoner, but until then, Rels is town.
On March 07 2019 18:04 Holyflare wrote: BH you have an uncanny knack to sound disingenuous with everything you write. How do you do it?
A few days ago I gave up on trying to sound town and just write what I want to write. It's a lot of fun!
It incidentally worked quite well to make you sound town. But I was already on the BH=VT train when you posted your death post. And now we know conversion is town, we know it wasn't a preconstructed scum gambit to gain town credit after vote shenannies saved you.
First of all good job ripping your scum read's analysis and using it as your own.
Second of all, if you believe this why the fuck are you lynching me and not exo??????
Don't talk to me. I'm trying to get away from tunneling you.
On March 07 2019 18:22 Holyflare wrote: So please look at the people that didn't want to vote you if you're town? Or how about just look at exo who called you town and wanted to lynch you anyway?
ExO and Ace are both suspicious for thinking i'm town and being kind to me when I was actively martyring
On March 07 2019 18:22 Jockmcplop wrote:
On March 07 2019 18:18 Blazinghand wrote: On top of all that, After spending 24 hours D1 and all of N1 trying to get lynched and shot, it didn't happen. And if it won't happen when I'm actively trying to make it happen, it's not happening. So, there's really no reason to avoid saying things that might get misunderstood and lead people to think I'm scum. who cares? None of you are going to pull together a group big enough that it's going to lynch me anyways. So... I'm free. I can post what I want. I don't have to stop and think about what will build cred, because I have none. I don't have to carefully maneuver to avoid scum trapping me into getting lynched, because as we've seen, it's impossible to lynch me. I've transcended this game. I am beyond suspicion. People just don't want to lynch me, so why should I defend myself? Why should I worry about my appearance, or any pressure anyone puts on me? Feh. I'll analyze what I want to analyze and do what I want, and see if I can find some scum. I'm cursed to play out this game for my hubris, trapped, never lynched, vigied, or nked, no matter what I try. So... I might as well play, and fuck caring about what I look like
This is kind of what I was getting at. That would be a ballsy play to make as scum particularly.
Yeah, it would be pretty ballsy to make as scum. Also, I'm probably one of the best scum players on TL Mafia - or I was back in the day, anyways. I'm just a decent town player, mostly skilled in avoiding getting lynched (which is actually a useful skill!) and driving discussion, typically. But as scum I've pulled all kinds of stunts. Once, I pretended that I was moving to a different house, put stuff in boxes and took photos of it, and people let it slide that I wasn't active for a full day. I'm a complete bastard. I'm pretty amazing.
Is it fair to characterize your day 1/night 1 activity as follows?
As town: High risk for you - medium risk for town team - some reward for you - no reward for town team
As scum: High risk for you - high risk for scum team - high reward for both you and scum team.
This is probably a fair assessment. That would be if he had done this as a calculated move, which it didn't feel like at all. If it *wasn't* a calculated move, and instead he yolo martyr'd himself because he didn't feel like reading hundreds of pages of thread, then there's no point in doing the risk assessment and you should just read his posts and assess whether he did this as a townie or a scummy.
If someone believes rayn tell me, and I will go find the relevant posts. Until such time as any of my townreads think rayn might have a point, he can go fuck himself. I'm done filtering things that happened yesterday.
On March 07 2019 21:11 Acrofales wrote: If someone believes rayn tell me, and I will go find the relevant posts. Until such time as any of my townreads think rayn might have a point, he can go fuck himself. I'm done filtering things that happened yesterday.
I mean. He's either scum, or wrong. And I don't really care anymore. He's not on the lynch table today, so he can go annoy someone else.
On March 07 2019 21:14 raynpelikoneet wrote: I an going to tell you if you can find the relevant posts that support your argument that i bolded in red in my post i will promise you i will never call you mafia in this game anymore.
Ok, that should be quite easy. I'll do it this one last time.
So. Lets see, where does rsoultin go with her investigation into Palmar. I tell you, it's nowhere. She doesn't try to engage with Palmar. She doesn't analyse Palmar's posts. Nada. She just throws shade:
On March 03 2019 18:32 rsoultin wrote:
On March 03 2019 18:27 Holyflare wrote: When did I ever make a case on rayn wtf?
You didn't that I recall.
Though I like his Palmar read.
Rayn at the time had a pretty weak scumread on Palmar based on (1) Palmar thinking I was looking townie, and (2) Palmar wanting to policy kill Sent. There really wasn't much there, but this is literally the only justification for rsoultin going after Palmar [...]
This is a big part of his case on rsoultin. rsoultin's early read on Palmar and where it came from. At this point Palmar had said; - not gonna play, it's weekend - Policy lynch Sentinel - HF might be town - "thanks i hate it" on one of my posts, whatever that meant - some more posts which say "lynch Sentinel"
rsoultin agreed at the time with my read on Palmar, and Acrofales criticises the reasoning. The problem is that this is Acrofales' reasoning for me thinking Palmar is mafia: (1) Palmar thinking I [acro] was looking townie (2) Palmar wanting to policy kill Sent
First of all (1) had never happened at that time. Second of all, for (2), i have absolutely no idea where he read rayn scumreads Palmar for wanting to lynch Sentinel, because these are all my words on Palmar at that point;
iamperfection actually looks really townie from later posts. I am okay with him being mayor. (Or go with Palmars plan, although he is prolly mafia but i cba of he just kills sentinel).
I think Palmar found an easy way out to "play" during weekend on sentinel and os trying to look better. I dont really believe he comes and says "hi see you on monday i dont play on weekends" and then starts reading the thread anyways as town. If you know palmar you probably know what i mean.
I mean i literally encouraged his policy lynch rather than find it scummy.
Okay so, let's pretend Acrofales made a mistake with timestamps and pretend i had all my stuff on Palmar already. here's the rest of what i updated on my read on him:
On March 04 2019 07:22 Holyflare wrote: Acro, wave, oats, rayn, chez, ls, mocsta(?) (+a shit tonne of others that elude me) will be the lynch today. There's really so many people I could easily lynch and just not care tbh.
Acro is town.
Wave, oats I'm on board with.
Rayn is a no. Your fight with him didn't give me scum vibes on either of you. Just made me want to tear my hair out.
Chez also a no. He seems fine.
LS I can't figure out, and can't be bothered to right now as I already have enough ppl I want to lynch.
Mocsta said before the game he wouldn't be around and he wasn't around. His few posts don't seem scummy, but he'd better start playing tomorrow.
Mate you really are mafia lol
?
He's pointing out you seem to have switched opinions on rayn
I have. The longer rayn goes without shitting up the thread the more I suspect him of scummy shenanigans.
That's not to say scumrayn isn't an abusive asshole. He's generally more tunnelly as scum than as town, at least in my obviously imperfect recollection. But rayn is being uncharacteristically passive and the longer it goes the more I suspect him.
Town rayn shits up the thread trying to find scum. Scum rayn shits up the thread for the sake of shitting up the thread. But rayn never doesn't shut up the thread. New behavior is weird. And probably scum weird.
Why does rayn's activity have anything to do with his alignment? Palmar should also know this, and it's why he's mafia because it's a poor excuse to scum read rayn when there's plenty of other reasons to.
Rayn works long hours so often goes long times without activity. The last thing he did when he was here was shit up the thread. This is a poor flip flop acro.
Rayn did quickly defuse when I was arguing with him though, although some of it may be my reluctance to engage in the argument with him.
I don't know what it means.
Yeah i tried to actually talk with you when you asked me to, then you never answered anything but with nonsense posts and then left.. So there is that.
this one isn't entirely about acrofales, and definitely NOT because he read him town
On March 04 2019 20:42 raynpelikoneet wrote: [....] You literally said nothing in your post towards acro except that you basically confessed you had a townread on him based on shit things and that you hadn't actually read him at all and apparently weren't even willing to do that.
So mr. Palmar now you are just lying.
I can maybe see how this turns into just "he townread Acro" in some idiots mind, but even if that was the case Palmar himself confessed he was guilty of this so how can rsoultin (or me) be blamed of being mafia because of a "shit scumread" when we actually called out CORRECT things regardless of Palmar's affiliation?? (note that while this is not a reason why rsoultin scumread Palmar, but Acrofales thought it is so it's relevant to the case).
How can any fucking townie not read things above properly enough to: 1) call rsoultin scum based on that 2) what i bolded in red
?????????????
Yadda yadda yadda red text: Rayn at the time had a pretty weak scumread on Palmar based on (1) Palmar thinking I was looking townie, and (2) Palmar wanting to policy kill Sent.
On March 03 2019 20:02 Palmar wrote: Like why the fuck are you complaining about Acro doing legwork on lurkers, what the hell is that?
Because giving a list of liek 10 people and calling all of them scum or "let's lynch them" and not havign a single read on anyone else doesn't actually accomplish anything. Like earlier he made a big post which said: 1) rsoultin shouldnt be any alignment atm 2) bc shouldnt be any alignment atm 3) hell everyone should be on your watchlist 4) Grack made a useless list post as first entry and then fucked off again. It seemed quite a lot like scum doing stuff to "seem active"
---> continues making lurker list posts after that all game
On March 03 2019 20:12 raynpelikoneet wrote: Palmar, if you are town, go seriously read Acrofales' filter and actually look at what he says. Then look at his case on Grackaroni and read the posts after that again.
Point 2:
On March 03 2019 18:14 raynpelikoneet wrote: Quick summary, more on when i get on computer (aka wake up again)..
iamperfection actually looks really townie from later posts. I am okay with him being mayor. (Or go with Palmars plan, although he is prolly mafia but i cba of he just kills sentinel).
Holyflare is mafia. He made a complete trashcan case on me that's factually incorrect and followed it up by "i dont understand any of his townreads", which if he believed in should always warrant a vote on me. Yet he just leaves it to it and does nothing. Very very mafia.
rsoultin made the saddest series of posts basicalöy ever where she calls me "you look very town but i am wary" and after hf's trash case i am suddenly her #2 scumread. I mean this is literally the stupidest thing i have read anywhere this year... i am scum because i look town and hf said things that arent even true? Okay.... sadly enough i dont think it makea her mafia but i am never gonna believe she wiöl make rational decisions towards me / bssed on what i say so i have no intention of wasting my time talking to her.
Then there are tubesock and slam who +1 both of above. I'd say one mafia there. Slam has looked a bit more town lately and certainly isnt even rwading rhe game based on his posts so who knows..
I think Palmar found an easy way out to "play" during weekend on sentinel and os trying to look better. I dont really believe he comes and says "hi see you on monday i dont play on weekends" and then starts reading the thread anyways as town. If you know palmar you probably know what i mean.
Oatsmaster is very likely to be town and hf's meta read on him is completely incorrect. Not that oats is helping much or isn't a headless chicken but that doesnt mean he is mafia, in fact it meeans the opposite quite often.
Acrofales has only talked about lurker after lurker after lurker. More likely to be scum. Only real read he gave was TT based on one post that he disageed with (liked the tone), but then wants him as mayor???!?!?!? Why do yoi want someone you dont think is right to be mayor?!?! Like why the fuck would you ever want that?
Now good more night.
And you're probably right that I confused the timestamps, because when you filter, the times appear in local time, but when you quote they appear in Korea time. So I saw rsoul's post as being at March 03 2019 18:32, and not what was actually the case March 03 2019 10:32 CET
I have probably made that timeline continuity mistake in other places too as this is the first time I notice it. Now you want to leave me alone and vote holyflare?
On March 07 2019 21:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: I literally just explained why neither of those posts should be part of your read, i even quoted the Palmar parts from them. Like wtf?
You wanted an explanation, I gave it. This conversation is over.
If you didn't want people to think you scumread Palmar, maybe you shouldn't say so.
On March 03 2019 18:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:although he is prolly mafia Quick summary, more on when i get on computer (aka wake up again)..
iamperfection actually looks really townie from later posts. I am okay with him being mayor. (Or go with Palmars plan, although he is prolly mafia but i cba of he just kills sentinel).
Holyflare is mafia. He made a complete trashcan case on me that's factually incorrect and followed it up by "i dont understand any of his townreads", which if he believed in should always warrant a vote on me. Yet he just leaves it to it and does nothing. Very very mafia.
rsoultin made the saddest series of posts basicalöy ever where she calls me "you look very town but i am wary" and after hf's trash case i am suddenly her #2 scumread. I mean this is literally the stupidest thing i have read anywhere this year... i am scum because i look town and hf said things that arent even true? Okay.... sadly enough i dont think it makea her mafia but i am never gonna believe she wiöl make rational decisions towards me / bssed on what i say so i have no intention of wasting my time talking to her.
Then there are tubesock and slam who +1 both of above. I'd say one mafia there. Slam has looked a bit more town lately and certainly isnt even rwading rhe game based on his posts so who knows..
I think Palmar found an easy way out to "play" during weekend on sentinel and os trying to look better. I dont really believe he comes and says "hi see you on monday i dont play on weekends" and then starts reading the thread anyways as town. If you know palmar you probably know what i mean.
Oatsmaster is very likely to be town and hf's meta read on him is completely incorrect. Not that oats is helping much or isn't a headless chicken but that doesnt mean he is mafia, in fact it meeans the opposite quite often.
Acrofales has only talked about lurker after lurker after lurker. More likely to be scum. Only real read he gave was TT based on one post that he disageed with (liked the tone), but then wants him as mayor???!?!?!? Why do yoi want someone you dont think is right to be mayor?!?! Like why the fuck would you ever want that?
Now good more night.
You say it twice. Do I think it was a particularly strong read? No. But do I think you're scumming Palmar at this point? Hell yes. And why? For the policy lynch thingy.
Then we add on the later to posts where you are boggled by Palmar townreading me, and I just added it onto the "grievances Rayn has with Palmar" list.
Right. Now I am really truly done with this. Focusing on more important stuff.
On March 07 2019 19:19 AMG wrote: I had hoped the rate that this thread is growing would slow down with a couple of the deaths, but alas it does not seem to be the case. The thread has grown by nearly 100 pages in the last 36 hours and I really do not have the time to dedicate to reading all of this.I've requested a replacement at this point and hopefully one can be found.
Ill put my vote onto BH at this point as last I read he was asking to die anyway.
##Vote: BlazingHand
Sorry you feel that way. I understand it completely. This game is definitely reminding me of why I stopped: it is just wayyyy too time consuming. I did warn you though:
On March 05 2019 15:51 AMG wrote: 151 pages... you cannot be serious!
I started playing here nearly a decade ago under the name Adam4167, some of you ive played with, most of the rest Ive spectated games you were in.
Now, if someone could tell me on a scale of 1 to 10 the level of shit ive waded into, 1 being my socks would get wet and 10 being if i open my mouth I die of E.coli?
23
Just one last request: please vote HF before you leave.
On March 07 2019 20:14 Holyflare wrote: I don't understand why anyone even thinks I'm mafia that would trade 1 for 1 with Palmar for absolutely no reason at all.
Then they make up some bs like they don't even remember how the d1 vote count went. There was no real vote count for 20 minutes after deadline.
Doesn't this essentially mean that if you don't get lynched, this is no longer valid? So to prove you aren't scum you should want to get lynched?
Like... this is such wifom I don't see how you think this is an argument. I just stumbled across this as I was looking for the question you asked me that I still didn't understand.
On March 07 2019 18:04 Holyflare wrote: BH you have an uncanny knack to sound disingenuous with everything you write. How do you do it?
A few days ago I gave up on trying to sound town and just write what I want to write. It's a lot of fun!
It incidentally worked quite well to make you sound town. But I was already on the BH=VT train when you posted your death post. And now we know conversion is town, we know it wasn't a preconstructed scum gambit to gain town credit after vote shenannies saved you.
First of all good job ripping your scum read's analysis and using it as your own.
Second of all, if you believe this why the fuck are you lynching me and not exo??????
Don't talk to me. I'm trying to get away from tunneling you.
And wtf are you talking about anyway?!
The guy that proclaimed bh was town the whole time but lynched him anyway??? Despite bh looking scummy af???
The guy I've written lots of posts about...
I'm still confused. I don't really care about ExO_ at the moment. He may very well be scum. I haven't actually looked into him much, but he's not "my scum read". In what world was I sheeping him though? Here's my read on BH:
On March 05 2019 15:30 raynpelikoneet wrote: Who was the guy who was super interested in Jockmcplop's mafia terminology?
Acro asked Jock three times if this was his first mafia game, looking at his filter.
Sounds like throwing a bone of shade like "someone please pick up on this and be suspicious of him". Why the fuck would Jock start the game by going to scum QT with "hi team, first tell me mafia terminology so i can make posts"???
He wouldn't. But he might be getting coached simply by scum bandying words around. But he just knew way more than he could get from coaching and his explanation was fine, as you might have noticed as I dropped it after he explained.
Now go die, scum.
Team scum: Wiggles (Palmar case + votes) Sentinel (Palmar case + trfel case + votes) Holyflare (not dumb enough to kill Palmar as town)
Pretty sure: Rayn (did nothing all day. Town rayn would be telling people how dumb they are and be raging at HF. Instead, he is here to tell me I'm scum for thinking Palmar is town. Wtf? Nice omgus)
Probably: MZ (did nothing all day, but was instantly around after flip) Damdred (same) BC (sheeping Palmar) Marv (last minute vote switch)
Maybe: Fecalfeast (trfel thought he was scum) BH (martyring :/ )
100% absent and useless: Onegu Rels
Upon further reflection:
On March 05 2019 18:18 Acrofales wrote: My maybe list above is bad.
BH is probably a VT.
And if he is, I think his calmer analysis of conversion might make sense. I did like how Marv immediately entered the thread as if he was excited to play. As scum there'd be no urgency and he'd slum it with his homies in the QT, acting as if he wasn't around before being forced to make an appearance here today. His mere presence makes him more townie.
Also, @rsoul: sheeping Palmar to victory is a fantastic strategy that I'll happily follow.
If you aren't talking about ExO_ you're going to have to be a bit more specific, because your filter is gigantic and there's lots of people you have made "lots of posts about".
On March 05 2019 08:59 Blazinghand wrote: Well, sorry for the poor performance guys. Exo is either more perceptive than most of you, or scum looking for post flip cred, for talking to me like I'm town. Same with Ace.
I really didn't expect the thread to balloon so much. Thabks for killing me early, this is a good plynch. Good luck everyone, and have fun!
This while useless seems like a VT who doesn't want to play, and not like a scummer who doesn't want to play. He's at least dropping *some* kinda info there.
Note that this was pretty much simultaneous with Conversions shenanigans, so unless they are scum together (a possibility that we shouldn't disregard and why we need the flip), BH really thought he was getting lynched here, and this is his "last words".
On March 07 2019 19:51 Vivax wrote: And that's the first guy to call out the entire mafia team.
I want a prize post game.
This feels real disingenuous. I can't really explain why.
Vivax do you believe everything you wrote on this page?
I had an aha moment yes. It just fits all too well.
Could you name off the top of your head who HF is scumreading?
Pretty impossible because I don't even particularly know.
If I had to outline some names:
Ace, BH, BC, Slam, Darthfoley, exo, Chezinu
Possibilities of:
Tumblewood, rels, jock, oats, ls
I mean... it's possible that mafia did absolutely nothing all game and we're tearing ourselves apart. But I don't think it's very likely that *none* of the active players are mafia. Just as a point of interest: why are onegu and pandain/amg not on that list?
On March 07 2019 18:04 Holyflare wrote: BH you have an uncanny knack to sound disingenuous with everything you write. How do you do it?
A few days ago I gave up on trying to sound town and just write what I want to write. It's a lot of fun!
It incidentally worked quite well to make you sound town. But I was already on the BH=VT train when you posted your death post. And now we know conversion is town, we know it wasn't a preconstructed scum gambit to gain town credit after vote shenannies saved you.
First of all good job ripping your scum read's analysis and using it as your own.
Second of all, if you believe this why the fuck are you lynching me and not exo??????
Don't talk to me. I'm trying to get away from tunneling you.
And wtf are you talking about anyway?!
The guy that proclaimed bh was town the whole time but lynched him anyway??? Despite bh looking scummy af???
The guy I've written lots of posts about...
I'm still confused. I don't really care about ExO_ at the moment. He may very well be scum. I haven't actually looked into him much, but he's not "my scum read". In what world was I sheeping him though? Here's my read on BH:
On March 05 2019 15:30 raynpelikoneet wrote: Who was the guy who was super interested in Jockmcplop's mafia terminology?
Acro asked Jock three times if this was his first mafia game, looking at his filter.
Sounds like throwing a bone of shade like "someone please pick up on this and be suspicious of him". Why the fuck would Jock start the game by going to scum QT with "hi team, first tell me mafia terminology so i can make posts"???
He wouldn't. But he might be getting coached simply by scum bandying words around. But he just knew way more than he could get from coaching and his explanation was fine, as you might have noticed as I dropped it after he explained.
Now go die, scum.
Team scum: Wiggles (Palmar case + votes) Sentinel (Palmar case + trfel case + votes) Holyflare (not dumb enough to kill Palmar as town)
Pretty sure: Rayn (did nothing all day. Town rayn would be telling people how dumb they are and be raging at HF. Instead, he is here to tell me I'm scum for thinking Palmar is town. Wtf? Nice omgus)
Probably: MZ (did nothing all day, but was instantly around after flip) Damdred (same) BC (sheeping Palmar) Marv (last minute vote switch)
Maybe: Fecalfeast (trfel thought he was scum) BH (martyring :/ )
100% absent and useless: Onegu Rels
Upon further reflection:
On March 05 2019 18:18 Acrofales wrote: My maybe list above is bad.
BH is probably a VT.
And if he is, I think his calmer analysis of conversion might make sense. I did like how Marv immediately entered the thread as if he was excited to play. As scum there'd be no urgency and he'd slum it with his homies in the QT, acting as if he wasn't around before being forced to make an appearance here today. His mere presence makes him more townie.
Also, @rsoul: sheeping Palmar to victory is a fantastic strategy that I'll happily follow.
If you aren't talking about ExO_ you're going to have to be a bit more specific, because your filter is gigantic and there's lots of people you have made "lots of posts about".
I'm talking about your read on bh which is pretty much a straight rip off of my post to vivax:
On March 06 2019 09:27 Holyflare wrote: At least we gather some vote d1 vote swap information. The conversion slot, the one that saved BH for no discernible reason (as well as Vivax I guess) was town. If Vivax is town, he's in a great spot to know that there was no mafia last minute shenanigan to save BH and thus BH is likely town.
On March 06 2019 09:10 Vivax wrote: ##Vote: BH
He's auto voted BH though so he's probably not that smart.
I know that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery so thanks
Think you got that the wrong way round, as my read predates yours. So thank you, I guess?
On March 07 2019 19:51 Vivax wrote: And that's the first guy to call out the entire mafia team.
I want a prize post game.
This feels real disingenuous. I can't really explain why.
Vivax do you believe everything you wrote on this page?
I had an aha moment yes. It just fits all too well.
Could you name off the top of your head who HF is scumreading?
Pretty impossible because I don't even particularly know.
If I had to outline some names:
Ace, BH, BC, Slam, Darthfoley, exo, Chezinu
Possibilities of:
Tumblewood, rels, jock, oats, ls
I mean... it's possible that mafia did absolutely nothing all game and we're tearing ourselves apart. But I don't think it's very likely that *none* of the active players are mafia. Just as a point of interest: why are onegu and pandain/amg not on that list?
Or, for that matter, where are your apparent town reads of Wiggles, Sentinel and MZ coming from?
Im honestly ok with losing if hf is scum I really cant see it
##vote: BH
Oh come on, mocsta. I don't want to make a BH is town post, because most of the reasoning is already in my filter, but lynching BH for information doesn't make any sense at all. You want to lynch for information? Lynch scum. That's the only real way to get information on who was reticent about lynching them, and hedging their bets. But lets say we lynch "for information":
If BH is scum (unlikely at this point), I guess it looks bad for Vivax, but Conversion, the one who sealed the deal, already flipped town. It also looks kinda bad for anybody else on the trfel wagon, but any decent scumteam is going to distribute votes and some will be bussing their buddy, especially if their buddy is BH begging to get killed in the thread. Imho, there is very little information to be gained here even if he's scum. Maybe from today's lynch you'd gain more, but I'm willing to be scum is not gonna vote to save him now either. I sure as hell wouldn't if I were mafia.
If BH is town, it literally didn't matter at all to scum what wagon they were or weren't on in D1, and we learn jack shit from flipping BH. They were welcome to vote for whoever they wanted. I guess people who didn't bother to consolidate on either of the wagons look bad, but with so many people just plain afk, even that is hard to figure out.
On March 07 2019 22:32 Jockmcplop wrote: I'm leaning heavily towards a scum read on BH right now. The more he posts the more scummy his motivations seem to be. His attacks on hf look as if he has made them up on the spot in an effort to try and paint hf as mafia, rather than coming to natural conclusions about hf from available evidence.
On March 06 2019 09:38 Blazinghand wrote: HF why did you claim a shot on me?
Here's a theory as to why HF did this. It is because he is scum.
In the Scum QT: Holyflare: Hey guys, the deadline is coming up. We know a vigi is going to shoot Blazinghand, and then probably claim after the daypost. Other Scums: yeah, sounds accurate to me. Holyflare: then Blazinghand will flip town, and i'm going to look real bad. Other Scums: oh no! Holyflare: ok, but here's the plan. I'm going to, right before the end of the night, with second on the clock, claim that I'm the vigi and am shooting BH. Other Scums: why would you do this HF? we're not shooting BH... Holflare: see, a vigi is going to shoot Blazinghand, and I will get autolynched D2 unless I can pose as the vigi who shot him. This will allow me to get in one more mislynch, as people will trust me. If the real vigi counterclaims, that's still a better situation than if I never claimed in the first place and just let myself get autolynched. Other Scums: good idea
Then, for some reason, I didn't get shot, and now HF has to just pretend he never claimed he was shooting me
This is pure speculation and I like how creative it is, but it is not evidence.
He then refers back to this as 'compelling' a few posts later, but as we can see it isn't compelling its a rather badly shoehorned piece of fiction, designed to create an mirage.
Whatever the particulars of the bad Palmar scumread, I still think this is easily the most compelling reason for the HF scum case:
On March 06 2019 09:38 Blazinghand wrote: HF why did you claim a shot on me?
Here's a theory as to why HF did this. It is because he is scum.
In the Scum QT: Holyflare: Hey guys, the deadline is coming up. We know a vigi is going to shoot Blazinghand, and then probably claim after the daypost. Other Scums: yeah, sounds accurate to me. Holyflare: then Blazinghand will flip town, and i'm going to look real bad. Other Scums: oh no! Holyflare: ok, but here's the plan. I'm going to, right before the end of the night, with second on the clock, claim that I'm the vigi and am shooting BH. Other Scums: why would you do this HF? we're not shooting BH... Holflare: see, a vigi is going to shoot Blazinghand, and I will get autolynched D2 unless I can pose as the vigi who shot him. This will allow me to get in one more mislynch, as people will trust me. If the real vigi counterclaims, that's still a better situation than if I never claimed in the first place and just let myself get autolynched. Other Scums: good idea
Then, for some reason, I didn't get shot, and now HF has to just pretend he never claimed he was shooting me
HF has largely abandoned his provably false ideas of "well, I couldn't change the mayor lynch" given the way the mayor lynch is received mechanically and the fact he was in thread and watched and commented on the shenannnies as they went down. Just for killing Palmar is he scum? eh, maybe not. But for lying about it, then slithering away from the lie when called out? oh yeah baby
Ok, so what is the point of town!HF to claim a fake vig shot? I didn't incorporate it in my case, because it's mostly wifom, but I really don't see it:
1. He made a big play and it backfired spectacularly. 2. He makes another big play just for shit and giggles? WTF?
Now, lets say BH had gotten vig'd. We'd have a townie counterclaiming the vig shot, and today would have been an even bigger shitshow. Lynch all liars is a damned good policy for a reason, because even if townies *do* do this kind of stupid shit, it is blatantly anti-town play. And the *second* time HF does a big anti-town play in the same damn game.
Im honestly ok with losing if hf is scum I really cant see it
##vote: BH
Oh come on, mocsta. I don't want to make a BH is town post, because most of the reasoning is already in my filter, but lynching BH for information doesn't make any sense at all. You want to lynch for information? Lynch scum. That's the only real way to get information on who was reticent about lynching them, and hedging their bets. But lets say we lynch "for information":
If BH is scum (unlikely at this point), I guess it looks bad for Vivax, but Conversion, the one who sealed the deal, already flipped town. It also looks kinda bad for anybody else on the trfel wagon, but any decent scumteam is going to distribute votes and some will be bussing their buddy, especially if their buddy is BH begging to get killed in the thread. Imho, there is very little information to be gained here even if he's scum. Maybe from today's lynch you'd gain more, but I'm willing to be scum is not gonna vote to save him now either. I sure as hell wouldn't if I were mafia.
If BH is town, it literally didn't matter at all to scum what wagon they were or weren't on in D1, and we learn jack shit from flipping BH. They were welcome to vote for whoever they wanted. I guess people who didn't bother to consolidate on either of the wagons look bad, but with so many people just plain afk, even that is hard to figure out.
its not info
The two wagons are hf and bh
Im not sure we can get a swing onto an alternate cos no idea whom thw lurkers will latch onto
If bh and hf are both town. I would prefer to lynch bh still
GAaaaaaargh. I almost want to lynch you instead for this amount of retardation.
Im honestly ok with losing if hf is scum I really cant see it
##vote: BH
Oh come on, mocsta. I don't want to make a BH is town post, because most of the reasoning is already in my filter, but lynching BH for information doesn't make any sense at all. You want to lynch for information? Lynch scum. That's the only real way to get information on who was reticent about lynching them, and hedging their bets. But lets say we lynch "for information":
If BH is scum (unlikely at this point), I guess it looks bad for Vivax, but Conversion, the one who sealed the deal, already flipped town. It also looks kinda bad for anybody else on the trfel wagon, but any decent scumteam is going to distribute votes and some will be bussing their buddy, especially if their buddy is BH begging to get killed in the thread. Imho, there is very little information to be gained here even if he's scum. Maybe from today's lynch you'd gain more, but I'm willing to be scum is not gonna vote to save him now either. I sure as hell wouldn't if I were mafia.
If BH is town, it literally didn't matter at all to scum what wagon they were or weren't on in D1, and we learn jack shit from flipping BH. They were welcome to vote for whoever they wanted. I guess people who didn't bother to consolidate on either of the wagons look bad, but with so many people just plain afk, even that is hard to figure out.
its not info
The two wagons are hf and bh
Im not sure we can get a swing onto an alternate cos no idea whom thw lurkers will latch onto
If bh and hf are both town. I would prefer to lynch bh still
GAaaaaaargh. I almost want to lynch you instead for this amount of retardation.
im one vote
I dont see what ur issue is
Im not the make/break for u to get hf flipped
Who says this won't come down to a single vote? But regardless of that: way to abdicate your power. If you really think both are town, have the balls to vote for a scumread.
On March 07 2019 22:49 LightningStrike wrote: For now I am voting BH as a placeholder/ information lynch.
With rsoultin of all people? kk
Palmar, marv, Koshi wanted HF dead
Now you probably don't know ace and BC, but they are the "old guard" of this forum. They both want HF dead and so far the only dudes casing them are coincidentially the ones opposing the HF lynch, so.
I'd love it if you voted HF.
Again it just a placeholder atm but I also want more information about the wagons Day 1.
On March 07 2019 22:49 LightningStrike wrote: For now I am voting BH as a placeholder/ information lynch.
This makes no sense.
I mean a placeholder vote stilla bit tired >.< But i also want information in terms of Day 1 wagons hence the information part.
SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME WHAT WE LEARN FROM LYNCHING BH!
If BH is town mafia had a field day and can have their votes all over the place. If BH is scum then maybe need to take a closer look on the Tfrel wagon maybe a few on BH for easy bus credit.
So... very little information at all, especially if he's town. And if he's scum? Do you think scum wasn't busing him when he martyred?
Do you think we gain more information from lynching a town BH than from lynching scum?
On March 07 2019 22:49 LightningStrike wrote: For now I am voting BH as a placeholder/ information lynch.
With rsoultin of all people? kk
Palmar, marv, Koshi wanted HF dead
Now you probably don't know ace and BC, but they are the "old guard" of this forum. They both want HF dead and so far the only dudes casing them are coincidentially the ones opposing the HF lynch, so.
I'd love it if you voted HF.
Again it just a placeholder atm but I also want more information about the wagons Day 1.
On March 07 2019 22:54 Acrofales wrote:
On March 07 2019 22:50 LightningStrike wrote:
On March 07 2019 22:49 WaveofShadow wrote:
On March 07 2019 22:49 LightningStrike wrote: For now I am voting BH as a placeholder/ information lynch.
This makes no sense.
I mean a placeholder vote stilla bit tired >.< But i also want information in terms of Day 1 wagons hence the information part.
SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME WHAT WE LEARN FROM LYNCHING BH!
If BH is town mafia had a field day and can have their votes all over the place. If BH is scum then maybe need to take a closer look on the Tfrel wagon maybe a few on BH for easy bus credit.
So... very little information at all, especially if he's town. And if he's scum? Do you think scum wasn't busing him when he martyred?
Do you think we gain more information from lynching a town BH than from lynching scum?
I can see a few of them bussing if he's scum but if he's town like I said mafia had a field day which would mean we need to take a closer look at people's reasoning for their votes.
We should be doing that anyway...
So what you're saying is that regardless of BH's flip, you'd need to read why people voted the way they did? Like... why do you need BH to flip for that?!
On March 07 2019 23:05 Rels wrote: I confirm that I'm Mason and that I used my power on rsoul N1
Cool reasoning for using the power on Tina?
Not much, some combination of: I like her outside the game, I townread her in game, she was scumreading me and she was seemingly not well in the thread at some point.
On March 07 2019 23:10 WaveofShadow wrote: People who are voting HF, if you're doing so for filter dive-y and NOT mod reasons, I won't stop you.
This to me is the clearest case on a town hf. It's absolutely possible I'm wrong here and if the game goes late, remember, but if scum HF truly pulled off what he did D1 that's insanely impressive, even for him and we as a whole deserve to lose for falling for it and lynching #1 town voice.
Hf does have limits to what he's capable of. I had kind of forgotten that. Deflecting suspicion for the entirety of a game is not where he likes to be. Sure he can put forth more sheer effort than nearly anybody else, but that is a tall order. Way more likely he actually did what he said and was dumb because he loves being right and looking right.
I'm also willing to admit I might be wrong on HF. But fuck man, he still needs to die. He shanked town!Palmar and fakeclaimed vigilante. WTF kinda townie does both of those things in the same game?
He's either a retard or he's scum. Now it's entirely possible it's the former. He has been super high activity and I didn't see him as scum on D1 at all. But actions speak louder than words, my man.
On March 07 2019 23:10 WaveofShadow wrote: People who are voting HF, if you're doing so for filter dive-y and NOT mod reasons, I won't stop you.
This to me is the clearest case on a town hf. It's absolutely possible I'm wrong here and if the game goes late, remember, but if scum HF truly pulled off what he did D1 that's insanely impressive, even for him and we as a whole deserve to lose for falling for it and lynching #1 town voice.
Hf does have limits to what he's capable of. I had kind of forgotten that. Deflecting suspicion for the entirety of a game is not where he likes to be. Sure he can put forth more sheer effort than nearly anybody else, but that is a tall order. Way more likely he actually did what he said and was dumb because he loves being right and looking right.
Remember the words of a wise man:
On March 06 2019 00:23 WaveofShadow wrote: I can already see what's going to happen We end up leaving all the loose ends alive tomorrow because somebody presents something shiny and scum laugh all the way to the bank
Don't lose sight of the goal tomorrow. Idgaf about this mocsta case tbh
On March 07 2019 22:49 LightningStrike wrote: For now I am voting BH as a placeholder/ information lynch.
With rsoultin of all people? kk
Palmar, marv, Koshi wanted HF dead
Now you probably don't know ace and BC, but they are the "old guard" of this forum. They both want HF dead and so far the only dudes casing them are coincidentially the ones opposing the HF lynch, so.
I'd love it if you voted HF.
Again it just a placeholder atm but I also want more information about the wagons Day 1.
On March 07 2019 22:54 Acrofales wrote:
On March 07 2019 22:50 LightningStrike wrote:
On March 07 2019 22:49 WaveofShadow wrote:
On March 07 2019 22:49 LightningStrike wrote: For now I am voting BH as a placeholder/ information lynch.
This makes no sense.
I mean a placeholder vote stilla bit tired >.< But i also want information in terms of Day 1 wagons hence the information part.
SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME WHAT WE LEARN FROM LYNCHING BH!
If BH is town mafia had a field day and can have their votes all over the place. If BH is scum then maybe need to take a closer look on the Tfrel wagon maybe a few on BH for easy bus credit.
So... very little information at all, especially if he's town. And if he's scum? Do you think scum wasn't busing him when he martyred?
Do you think we gain more information from lynching a town BH than from lynching scum?
I can see a few of them bussing if he's scum but if he's town like I said mafia had a field day which would mean we need to take a closer look at people's reasoning for their votes.
We should be doing that anyway...
So what you're saying is that regardless of BH's flip, you'd need to read why people voted the way they did? Like... why do you need BH to flip for that?!
Location of the votes is where I aiming at for the difference >.< If BH is scum might be more of the middle of the pack/early voters who are bussing him. If he's town they could of voted him whenever.
So you'd rather just yolo lynch BH today without even thinking about it, and scumhunt tomorrow, than scumhunt today?
If you're going to yolo lynch someone, at least yolo lynch HF. 1. You get the same amount of information (just the mayor train instead of the lynch train). 2. He is actually scum. 3. It's way more fun.
Anyway, filtering Sentinel. He'd be my first backup lynch choice, but I think he posted a bunch since Palmar wanted him dead, so I should make sense of that shit myself. /sigh.
You see. @WoS. This is what happens when you take your eye off the ball. He killed Palmar and he's gonna get away with it too. We need the scooby gang here!
On March 07 2019 18:18 Blazinghand wrote: On top of all that, After spending 24 hours D1 and all of N1 trying to get lynched and shot, it didn't happen. And if it won't happen when I'm actively trying to make it happen, it's not happening. So, there's really no reason to avoid saying things that might get misunderstood and lead people to think I'm scum. who cares? None of you are going to pull together a group big enough that it's going to lynch me anyways. So... I'm free. I can post what I want. I don't have to stop and think about what will build cred, because I have none. I don't have to carefully maneuver to avoid scum trapping me into getting lynched, because as we've seen, it's impossible to lynch me. I've transcended this game. I am beyond suspicion. People just don't want to lynch me, so why should I defend myself? Why should I worry about my appearance, or any pressure anyone puts on me? Feh. I'll analyze what I want to analyze and do what I want, and see if I can find some scum. I'm cursed to play out this game for my hubris, trapped, never lynched, vigied, or nked, no matter what I try. So... I might as well play, and fuck caring about what I look like
Yo. We need you to continue not making this happen, because it sure looks like it's going to happen. We need more analysis from you and less blathering about your hubris and being above the game.
On March 07 2019 05:35 sicklucker wrote: if we were gonna yolo lynch I think rels is the guy. he starts getting active as mafia starts winning. very nice. also thinks im scum for some reason which seems forced (omgus)
I'm also down for this. If I still feel this way in the morning I'll explain further.
But I also am fine with a BH lynch so...yeah lol ><
This is a pretty shitty reason to lynch this guy:
On March 05 2019 08:59 Blazinghand wrote: Well, sorry for the poor performance guys. Exo is either more perceptive than most of you, or scum looking for post flip cred, for talking to me like I'm town. Same with Ace.
I really didn't expect the thread to balloon so much. Thabks for killing me early, this is a good plynch. Good luck everyone, and have fun!
On March 06 2019 18:52 Tubesock wrote: I’m 180ing on my Acrofales townread. I think the anger at HF is faked and made to look like he has a legitimate reason to lynch HF. I don’t see how someone can be that angry about something that they knew would happen. HF said he’d kill Palmar most the day, it was pretty clear. I’d expect the anger at the HF voters, where it should go. (Exactly like the trump wall).
People often say that people do things are either stupid or mafia. If Acrofales really thought HF was mafia, he’d just be spouting how HF is mafia with evidence, and the voters are the retards. But no, he knows HF is town, so he’ll say let’s kill him for being antiTown. I’d rather a town HF that fucks up, than a dead town HF. Plus, that would have been such a great play if Palmar was mafia. Would have been an epic play in the last tl game. Wiggles, you’ve been scumming me since before I even scummed Trfel. Yet you’ve never voted me. Why not? You seem pretty convinced, you have some others who agree. Think about what you say because I’m going to have great satisfaction copy and pasting things from your case on me in my defense.
What a worthless post, lol.
It actually isn't. You of all people should get the most out of it.
Teach me, oh sensei. What was I supposed to get out of this, because I don't see it. I mean, it might not be useless for making me think "hey, tubesock exists, and he might be scum". But the thought process there, if town, is useless, right?
"If Palmar were scum, it'd be a great play"
REALLY? That's the defense we're going with?!
Palmar WASN'T scum. If HF nuked a scum!Palmar on D1, we wouldn't be having this whole shitshow of a day now, would we? We'd be blindly sheeping HF into killing BH. So whyyyyy be like "Acro is scum, because he's on HF for killing town!Palmar, but if instead he had killed scum!Palmar it would be a great move and we should give HF credit for maybe having made such a great move in an alternate universe where town!Palmar was actually scum!Palmar. /facepalm.
But clearly there is something between the lines that I am missing. Teach me, oh sensei.
On March 08 2019 02:19 Ace wrote: @acro: that reply was for tube. He's missing a pretty big logical conclusion in that post of his.
@rayne: I came back last night and posted my thoughts. You're welcome to read them whenever you feel the need to do so.
@Rels: damn this game is I interesting indeed
But I'm the one who said it was worthless. Not tube. Tube made the post, so I presume he didn't think it was worthless.
The conclusion that's missing is presumably in the bit below the line? Because the conclusion of the first part is at the start, below the non-sequiturs start.
On March 08 2019 00:34 Ace wrote: WoS stop overthinking things. Everyone, I've outlined posts that show my suspicion of Holyfi...er Holyflare. I've even made said I find him scummy ignoring Day 1.
There is no point in lynching BH for information. The one thing that must be resolved before Day 3 is HF.
On March 07 2019 23:05 Rels wrote: I confirm that I'm Mason and that I used my power on rsoul N1
1 shot Mason that gets to pick a partner or is it Mason where mod confirms alignment of who you pick?
neither. Not 1 shot and no mod confirm
Can you add new people to your QT? Or do you get a new QT with the new person?
They're added to the same QT
why did you not mason me?
I hesitated at some point. Some combination of rsoul scumreading me and rsoul not feeling well
Why did you hesitate. I dont care what you thought about rsoultin.
What do you not undersatnd? I thought it would be cool to have a nice private QT with you or rsoul for the same 2 reasons (I like you outside the game, I townread you), then the other 2 reasons is what pushed rsoul in front of you.
I dont understand why you picked her over me. And i still dont because your post doesnt say anything regarding that.
I understand you three have a little thing going on, but mind explaining to the scrubs on the sideline why Rels should have picked you? Is it that you have an ego the size of Holyflare's? Or is there a reason he should always mason you?
On March 08 2019 02:33 LightningStrike wrote: Just a funny thought but what there is a mafia traitor even though it not listed in the op?
Traitor is a bastard role tho. Don't think this game would stray that far into crazy themed territory. Not that I mind crazy themed games. I just like to know what I'm getting into beforehand.
Neighborizer isn't a crazy role, it's just not much used here. I'm going to assume he's simply a neighborizer, because if we're dealing with a cult, we're in a decidedly non-normal game and presumably the OP would say so.
So yeah, going with Rels = town.
Rsoul also outed what is probably the only investigative role we have left. That wasn't smart, but is quite townie. Mafia could just shoot him at night without anybody even knowing Rels had added rsoul to the neighbourhood.
So yeah, bit of wifom there, but I'm adding them both as confirmed town.
On March 08 2019 03:04 raynpelikoneet wrote: For further notice; see how Acroflaes is treating people, everyone who is actually town in this game he is like "fuck you", everyone who is scum he is all polite and shit (+vivax).
Who is scum, rayn?
I'm all polite and shit to everybody, btw. Unlike you. If you mean being aggressive towards... I'm pretty sure I'm being aggressive towards Holyflare, because I want to get him lynched. Not sure who else you mean tho.
On March 08 2019 03:11 Tubesock wrote: Ace, if I think someone is faking their rage I doubt I could care less if they were mad at me too.
If you think the rage is fake, then them not being fake mad at you for being on the wagon is my point. Unless you think they're terrible scum don't you see they'd at least go to the trouble, see you on the wagon they should be mad at, and try to push you as a suspect for that reason?
But his whole point was that I was not mad at *any* of the people on the HF wagon. And he liked it to being mad at Trump, but not at Trumplings. Meaning, he sees himself as a Trumpling, but that aside: seems quite obvious to me tho. I have no time for the Trumplings as long as the big papa Trump is still alive. I'm sure the Trumplings will get their due after we lynch HolyTrump.
I did draw this after all, and haven't forgotten about it:
On March 05 2019 09:53 Acrofales wrote: I brought my coloring book:
On March 08 2019 03:18 Acrofales wrote: I'm all polite and shit to everybody, btw. Unlike you. If you mean being aggressive towards... I'm pretty sure I'm being aggressive towards Holyflare, because I want to get him lynched. Not sure who else you mean tho.
i just got told to not be a dick, and i am wayyyyy more polite this game than you or certain other people. i call shenanigans, fuck the hosts.
The fact that you think that after half the thread told you to stop being abusive is....
On March 04 2019 23:30 Palmar wrote: go after mocsta -> threatens to kill himself go after conversion -> leaves the game
I may have a problem.
You’re not the problem. Neither is HF.
? If Palmar wasn't a problem then why was your vote to have him killed at this point?
I actually dived into your filter to find where you strong townread HF... and I don't see it at all. You made up your mind HF was town at the start of the game based on... nothing? And your comment after nightfall was about me, not about HF at all. In fact, it's the post that is continuously quoted here that has the whole ramble about how wonderful it would have been if HF had killed scum!Palmar.
On March 08 2019 03:41 darthfoley wrote: so i have 75 pages to read... and i'm getting shoulder surgery tomorrow and my arm will be in a sling for a month.
I'll spend the next couple hours trying to make sense of this stuff and be useful for once. If you want to vig me, that might be ideal lol
It’s basically just HF vs BH.
Okay, i'll try to read through EoD1 and see what I uncover
Oh FOR FUCK'S SAKE. I had this all written out and then I closed the tab. Had to write it all again. I even fished through the memorydump from Chrome and recovered some pieces, but it was piecemeal and scattered
See spoiler for tech foibles. This took me longer than I thought, and I thought it would take a while. Anyway, here are the two main reasons there is no doubt that Holyflare is scum:
Exhibit A: the "locked in" waffle First, lets establish the timeline. Your honor, we need to establish that holyflare was on the scene!
On March 05 2019 08:37 Koshi wrote: [quote] I think you are mafia and I told you why.
Disconnect in every other post you made. That is enough.
Show me the disconnects, that's simply not true. I already explained the two disconnects that exist. If you show me more I can explain them too, nothing even has merit except for those two.
@Holyflare, I'd take another look at Fecalfeast and Mocsta. Mocsta's play felt honest and genuine to me, admittedly he hasn't done much but I don't think that's mafia indicative. I know that Fecalfeast enjoys playing scum (heck he has one of the highest mafia winrates on the site) and he's relaxed and carefree as mafia, IIRC he's more relaxed and carefree and fun-loving as mafia than town. As mafia he plays to exist and survive, not to push stuff, and that's exactly what he is doing here. Otherwise, just please don't start a big fight between you and raynnpelikoneet or anyone else that causes massive tunnels.
Can you explain the mocsta progression on Palmar then? How can he go from so rage-y and agreeing with my posts against Palmar to suddenly voting Conversion with palmar and agreeing like nothing had happened?
Huh. To be honest I couldn't tell you. I guess never mind me then, I'm still not really convinced he's mafia but I couldn't (and wouldn't) stop anyone who said otherwise.
You and Exo
You guys need to explain your scumread on me
But I don't have a scumread on you?
I'm just trusting Holyflare. The whole saving me thing and all.
Why are you voting to lynch me then?
I'm not? Unless you mean voting Holyflare for mayor, because I trust him to do the right thing. And I kinda expect he won't kill you, but I probably shouldn't say that, it makes him more likely to. But you asked.
So we've established beyond reasonable doubt that Holyflare was on the scene and, if he had wanted to, could have sent a PM to kita asking to kill BH instead of Palmar. Now, your honor, I submit that Holyflare never wanted to change. This does not make him scum (well, it does, but he can wifom his way out of this). What makes him scum is him prevaricating about changing.
On March 05 2019 09:41 Holyflare wrote: for the record if I knew bh was not getting lynched I would have absolutely switched it to him but it was already locked in
But he was right there the whole time. He knew BH was not getting lynched. He even got PM'd by the hosts about it:
Shocker I know right? The guy literally led us down a wrong path all fucking game. He has lied by his own admission multiple times. He claimed he would mayor lynch Sentinel, then Palmar. Said he wasn't serious on the Palmar lynch, then says he lies a few hours before deadline and offs Palmar who flips backup cop. He said he shot BH then claimed that he only did so to create tension in the thread. However his outrage about the game being full of blues seems one that an angry mafia could make. The other thing that gets me about his lying is he claims that he couldnt change his mayor vote because it was locked in while being insanely active right at the time the lynch was happening so could have changed it had he wished but claimed
On March 05 2019 09:41 Holyflare wrote: for the record if I knew bh was not getting lynched I would have absolutely switched it to him but it was already locked in
how is it locked in ?
that makes no sense you could have changed
I don't think so? I PMd it saying lynch palmar a long time ago when it was called for in the thread and when the deadline came I was told it was palmar selected. Didn't really get given any other opportunity but it is what it is.
Unless things have drastically changed since I played this game. If you had any action you could take whatsoever you could change it more than once before a deadline hit. So if this has changed feel free to correct me but until then this is a straight up fucking lie.
Next few thing that gets me however that stood out after a filter dive is this.
On March 04 2019 00:55 rsoultin wrote: The whole thing where LS's only 'scumread' out of 34 other people is MZ, and then he wants to kill Koshi screams to me of a Koshi that rolled scum and told his buddies to just lynch him.
If LS flips scum, MZ probably is scum, too, so that's three right there.
On March 04 2019 00:55 rsoultin wrote: The whole thing where LS's only 'scumread' out of 34 other people is MZ, and then he wants to kill Koshi screams to me of a Koshi that rolled scum and told his buddies to just lynch him.
If LS flips scum, MZ probably is scum, too, so that's three right there.
Koshi is confirmed town though so it's ok.
HOW THE FUCK IS HE CONFIRMED TOWN? HE NEVER FUCKING POSTED THIS ENTIRE GAME?
On March 04 2019 00:58 Holyflare wrote: Magic LightningStrike, magic
This exchange right here. How if a player who hasn't posted at that point in time even remotely close to being considered confirmed town? The only way that you would know this is if you actually knew his alignment.
Another gem. To discredit Palmar he uses this as one of his reasons to discredit him.
Can you really trust Palmar as mayor when he's not even top 7?
Bashing a player based on stats out of game rather than in game play? If you honestly believe (based on stats) that you are a better player than someone why do you need to bring that up as your reason? Should be good enough to win an election based on pure skill.
On March 05 2019 08:23 Holyflare wrote: Arbitrary list. Please tell me which of the ones I haven't read should be read asap. Bit annoying the bottom half of the player list has a lot of scummy people to read. I cba writing anymore so close to deadline.
tubesock (Could be wrong on him but his filter seems clean and he's making his own conclusions (albeit just on trfel, but trfel is the new flavour of the month and he was first so looks ok)
Fecalfeast (Don't hate anything he's said. In fact on page 2 of his filter everything he says there kind of aligns with what I've been thinking. His vote platform seems carefree and like he doesn't really give a shit, just wants to do his own thing. Very acro focused but not in an awful way. Content seems minimal though so he's not up at town.
Null
Onegu (legit has done 0 things)
Mr. Wiggles (seems resolute in looking at unturned stones, could just be blending but seems ok(?) Asked me to look into one of the T guys (tube?) but he didn't look bad in his filter at all so dropped to null)
WaveofShadow I want to believe Wave has a lack of emotion but he's done this exact thing of lurking and feigning before. I'd find it hard to motivate myself if I rolled mafia in this big game after a massive break like him too He hasn't got anything to go on really. Scummy just appearing.
Ace (Really has achieved not much. Voted me for mayor which is a big + and the things he says aren't not-towny in a vacuum but until he reaches a conclusion and votes not a placeholder for lynch there's really nothing to go on. Has weird posts in relation to BH when he hasn't really commented on much of the game apart from that)
Oatsmaster (don't hate his new direction - which is still seemingly every direction - but he's digging at least)
Tictock (This would absolutely be in the lower categories if it wasn't for his big appeal to emotion post against me which I have a big weakness for. I don't like that he decided to do the catch up style this game. He misses questions aimed towards him, gave up the style and ignored the pages in between. His logic has been wonky on a lot of people's posts and he seems to make a determined decision on someone's alignment and then make a narrative without weighing up both sides. But that AtE post though....)
ExO_ When reading through the thread there was a discussion that exo was present for and he kept asking random questions and not really interacting with it and I voted him for it. Upon reading his filter I got a completely different clean impression so he's in a null placeholder until I re-read that whole time he was in thread.
Scum-ish
Tumblewood (looks very low effort, may be mistaken on this though but it's a lot of questions that don't end up much of anywhere and lots of seemingly sentiment following on mayor lynches)
Trfel (Feel disgusting doing this (putting him in null) after he scum reads sentinel for something that happened almost 72 hours ago but I don't think he says he doesn't think Oats is posting like mafia and then backtracks and votes for him as mafia. That seems like something he'd be too self conscious to do. But then he says things like "oats (pressure vote)" as if he never meant it so this started as null but it's actually now scum-ish)
Acrofales (This dude has looked scummy quite a lot. First was when he said he was sheeping Palmar because he trusted him more to find scum while scum reading the person I wanted to lynch. Then he said I didn't look that great because I was scum reading Oats for bad reasons and then he made a list of why Oats was scum which was entirely made up of my reasons. Then I said I scum read rayn and he said he doesn't scum read rayn. When Palmar came with a bs reason to scum read rayn Acro basically reneged on his plan to vote me because he agreed that Rayn looked like mafia when nothing from rayn had happened in between. Every time I think about these occurrences it makes me want to drop him down further. Don't ask me why I don't. He has ok looking breakthroughs every now and again)
raynpelikoneet Talked through me. Ignroed rsoultin. Disappeared and reappeared to appeal to me and vote palmar/(think he disliked acro too). Conflicted heavily at the moment.
Scum
Blazinghand (No RNG, no posts of content. Just doing whatever to seem like the good towny martyr. I think I've seen him do this exact play before as mafia.)
Mocsta (This dude, does anyone know where his head is at? I sure don't. He +1s my post scum reading Palmar, gets in a shit show with Palmar and then somehow bows down to him after having a meltdown like 2.4 seconds before over Palmar's really weak Conversion read????????????? Just read his filter progression with me and Palmar and be prepared to go "What?")
Palmar - (wishy washy Iamp post, wishy washy Acro post. I call him out that he has no solid scum reads and he has to hunker down and scum read someone. Defaults to Sentinel still, can't see any motivation from sentinel other than scum motivation. He then makes some bs analysis of the wagons acknowledging that his wagon is the most scum motivated one to follow but doesn't use that to reevaluate anything and doesn't question which of the people on the wagon are scummy. He defends Pandain who has literally posted nothing but coaching.
Makes a movement for Rayn to be mafia based on Rayn's activity which hasn't meant anything since a long time now. Doesn't even get what Rayn said correct.
Doesn't even know what Damdred/Rsoul posted about LS. Not interested in figuring out game, instead tried to use others to prove his point.
Wants to vote Conversion because Conversion was lazy but attributes it to mafia motivation instead of just someone being lazy. That's the crux of his entire read. Fakes some floundering on it when Conversion posts some irl excuse, seems pretty forced.
After nothing in between Conversion drops off max scum vote list and is replaced with lurker and policy lynch. Not great at all.)
LightningStrike (No scum reads. Only mentioned MZ once or twice but never really actually said anything about him of substance. Rage quit from the thread but still votes and still afks in the background. He finds it really hard to write scum reads as scum because it's against his nature. He hasn't done the characteristic "these two are fighting so one of them is mafia" post that he always does as town. He hasn't really given anything to go on. Rage seemed forced. He's fucking voting Palmar, jeeeeezzuusss.)
Chezinu (This is without reading his filter and just off memory alone. He does not seem to be having fun, his RP posts are quite devoid of anything entertaining. He's been trying to determine if I'm blue. He has been actually posting reads and being serious which is a complete juxtaposition to any time I've ever ever seen Chezinu been town (or really mafia either) but from what I can see there seems to be agenda in Chez. I will update this on actually reading him because I can't remember a single one of his reads.
Now you may look at this and go “wtf why choose this post” However look at it. His confirmed 100% town were both capped and flipped green but one of his strongest scum reads and heavily leaned scum reads both flipped town. Meaning the only place he has been correct is where he places town reads. 1 of which he had a read on 100% before the player posted. Seems super fucking fishy.
She was on my radar day 1 as well. This shouldn't be a surprise.
1) She makes posts like this
On March 02 2019 20:35 rsoultin wrote: Like for me it breaks down like this:
You've got trolling people. You've got lurking people. You've got lazy people. You've got some overly aggressives that aren't giving me warm fuzzies (MP). You've got people I'm not sure about who when I'm not sure about them have a nasty habit of being scum (Rayn) but because he's burned me so often I'm not sure if that's not where the uncertainty's coming from.
And then you have seemingly excited to play, I respect the shit out of his intelligence Chez playing but not saying anything interesting. That first group can hide a lot of bad town play. But doing something without doing anything ticks off my scum meter to a higher degree.
Now what gets me from this is the characterization that Chez wasn't saying anything interesting. He was roleplaying sure, but he also had a string of very useful posts that weren't roleplay at all. As someone who dislikes lazy people, and trolling people perhaps doing a proper analysis of someones posting history to that point would you know? Non hypocritical.
On March 02 2019 20:58 rsoultin wrote: What are your reads that don't matter BC?
This was another read flag for me. A read that doesn't matter? Why would you ever want someone to actively give you information that is useless? Anyone can give a read but to provide no substance or reasoning for it is just useless and scummy. Asking for that info is just as bad.
Now the next things for me are this.
Chez is her #1 scum read. Rather than heavily pushing this (will admit she made an analysis post on him) She then waffles off wanting to off him (no real reason I could spot) then starts randomly sheeping other peoples reads
On March 03 2019 20:12 Palmar wrote: To be fair I mostly like Acro just for these two posts. They're the logical way to play the game.
Kill the policy lynch, continue playing.
On March 03 2019 17:09 Acrofales wrote: Enters Palmar: he claims to feel strongly about killing sent. So let him do it. All you need to decide is if Palmar is townie enough. But if we decide Palmar is townie enough to be mayor then he is free to kill whoever he likes. He sticks with sentinel and sentinel flips scum? We win, yay! Sheep Palmar into Armageddon. Sentinel flips town? We figure out if Palmars policy lynch is an ideological thing or a scum thing. Either way, we get information about Palmar out of this, which is a great thing to get out of D1.
On March 03 2019 17:11 Acrofales wrote: Oh, also, if sent was actually playing and being townie, I'd be more inclined to want him to live. But he has used this "foil" to be an attention whore and cop out of doing anything else so far. Not town play.
@Palmar, let's assume Acro is the leading lynch candidate but your vote could choose somebody else to lynch. Who would you lynch instead of Acro, that isn't Sent?
Palmar's entire post history seems to be super focused on this policy lynch of Sent -- that's it. Town Reads HF, Town Reads Acro. He's not wanting to scum hunt on day 1, but go all in on a policy lynch. I don't think I mind having a strong conviction about the policy lynch, but I think I do mind only green reading other people and only pushing your one policy lynch.
I think Palmar is scum.
I like Rayn's read on Palmar, ironically, cause I think they're both scum.
Palmar not playing on a weekend is Palmar-y. Palmar playing is Palmar-y. This half and half stuff I wouldn't trust with a 10-foot pole and I hate how much support he's gotten. I also hate that some of that is probably from shit town who just see the shiny name and go oh, Palmar, he's a god, let's check our brains at the door.
-cocks head at- So you've decided to play rather than whine about people saying a person who was only posting images was a good vig target?
So this post just makes me want to facepalm. Why? Because she basically just said because its Palmar hes mafia. Because he has any support hes mafia. More important she is bothered by the name he has and blames shit town for trying to vote him into the slot of mayor. Now we know that Palmar flipped town. So those people that voted for him clearly arent as shit as this read of hers is. Next thing with this is she doesn't decide to hard push her own reads instead she SHEEPS unto the BH bandwagon. The thing that gets me about this is this. SHE SAYS SHE THINKS HE IS TOWN AND STILL WANTS TO LYNCH HIM.
Why the fuck do you ever want to kill a town read? Like seriously. Why would you lynch someone you believe to be town. She has scumreads for fucks sake. Was active enough to push them. Instead lets push a town read for information because the potential information is better than offing a scum. Jesus fuck.
On March 06 2019 04:01 rsoultin wrote: Also, for the record, though I'm mocking the auto-lynch mindset perpetuated by people who can't think for themselves, a BH flip is still best for everyone and 100% should be facilitated before day phase so the idiots can have a chance to check their idiocy. Not that I'm holding my breath.
You want to lynch someone you think is town...,.......................... .
Yes that's what this post clearly meant good job proving why it's pointless for me to explain reads with this level of reading comprehension floating around the thread.
I just see things so scummy sometimes that I stare at my phone in disbelief.
You suggesting to lynch someone that is town to help clear the air is either scum motivated at best and at worst idiotic.
l2r
That post imo also sheds potential like on Iamp being killed. To my reading he was the only one to call her out for it..
This is mainly from a filter dive. Everything in it screams of someone coming in and skirting activity while posting nothing of substance. Hell he never comes into the thread and express a real reason or read to his vote on Trfel. Just sheeped onto it like nothing ever happened. Hell the only real time Tumblewood even expressed a read on Trfel it was a town read. So he sheeped a wagon to off a person he believed was town. Again, no fucking reason to do this ever. Clearly red.
Whatever the particulars of the bad Palmar scumread, I still think this is easily the most compelling reason for the HF scum case:
On March 06 2019 09:38 Blazinghand wrote: HF why did you claim a shot on me?
Here's a theory as to why HF did this. It is because he is scum.
In the Scum QT: Holyflare: Hey guys, the deadline is coming up. We know a vigi is going to shoot Blazinghand, and then probably claim after the daypost. Other Scums: yeah, sounds accurate to me. Holyflare: then Blazinghand will flip town, and i'm going to look real bad. Other Scums: oh no! Holyflare: ok, but here's the plan. I'm going to, right before the end of the night, with second on the clock, claim that I'm the vigi and am shooting BH. Other Scums: why would you do this HF? we're not shooting BH... Holflare: see, a vigi is going to shoot Blazinghand, and I will get autolynched D2 unless I can pose as the vigi who shot him. This will allow me to get in one more mislynch, as people will trust me. If the real vigi counterclaims, that's still a better situation than if I never claimed in the first place and just let myself get autolynched. Other Scums: good idea
Then, for some reason, I didn't get shot, and now HF has to just pretend he never claimed he was shooting me
HF has largely abandoned his provably false ideas of "well, I couldn't change the mayor lynch" given the way the mayor lynch is received mechanically and the fact he was in thread and watched and commented on the shenannnies as they went down. Just for killing Palmar is he scum? eh, maybe not. But for lying about it, then slithering away from the lie when called out? oh yeah baby
I will quite literally quote my mod PM post game to prove it. Please stop posting this trash. I stand by my statement that it was locked in before I could say anything.
You keep bringing this up as if it means something to us. There's gonna be some host wifom here, but not a lot:
1. I know Kita and dandel and don't think they're dicks. If you PM'd them after the vote shenanigans and said you wanted to kill BH, I'll believe they'd allow it. So based on that I believe the PM was never sent. And the PM you will show us post-game is your role PM saying you win with scum.
2. If this were true, and Kita didn't let you change the target, why'd we have to drag it out of you? It would literally be the first thing out of mouth post-flip: "shit, tried to change it, but wasn't allowed to". It would even have made sense with your "I didn't kill Palmar" post. But you didn't say anything. You didn't even say anything when called out on your troll post. This "I tried to change it but couldn't" narrative only came wayyyyy later. In fact, your whole behavior around the flip is what makes me quite sure you're scum: first the troll post makes it clear you aren't worried about your decision. Then the flip and the feels there are that you are gloating. Not shocked at how wrong you were and killed a fellow town leader.
On March 05 2019 09:38 Holyflare wrote: You guys knew what you were voting for :D
Go die, scum.
No, they're not dicks. I PMd them to lynch Palmar on the flight home. When the flip happened kita PMd me saying palmar is now the lynch. I probably could have PMd saying that I'd rather switch to BH and probably should have but:
A) i thought the flip was literally going to happen straight away
B) I was too tired to even care
C) I wanted to lynch palmar anyway
You don't have to care about these series of events but if what it takes is cheating to make people actually play the game and talk about scum reads that aren't me I'm not above doing it. There's no banlist and it's the last game ever.
Maybe then you'd actually have to produce some content that isn't rhetoric about lynching me.
On March 06 2019 05:52 LightningStrike wrote: Guys we lynching HF because of him killing Palmar over BH who was the opposite wagon of Tfrel was so antitown that I don't think he would do that as Town in that situation. I don't think a town HF is that big of an idiot to use the mayor lynch on a very active Palmar like that.
Also his slipperiness on why he did this. It's not just that he promised, as he now claims, he was previously saying he got caught off guard and couldn't change it in time.
Also pls vigi me
This is true and I will prove it, just after the game.
Shocker I know right? The guy literally led us down a wrong path all fucking game. He has lied by his own admission multiple times. He claimed he would mayor lynch Sentinel, then Palmar. Said he wasn't serious on the Palmar lynch, then says he lies a few hours before deadline and offs Palmar who flips backup cop. He said he shot BH then claimed that he only did so to create tension in the thread. However his outrage about the game being full of blues seems one that an angry mafia could make. The other thing that gets me about his lying is he claims that he couldnt change his mayor vote because it was locked in while being insanely active right at the time the lynch was happening so could have changed it had he wished but claimed
On March 05 2019 09:41 Holyflare wrote: for the record if I knew bh was not getting lynched I would have absolutely switched it to him but it was already locked in
how is it locked in ?
that makes no sense you could have changed
I don't think so? I PMd it saying lynch palmar a long time ago when it was called for in the thread and when the deadline came I was told it was palmar selected. Didn't really get given any other opportunity but it is what it is.
Unless things have drastically changed since I played this game. If you had any action you could take whatsoever you could change it more than once before a deadline hit. So if this has changed feel free to correct me but until then this is a straight up fucking lie.
Next few thing that gets me however that stood out after a filter dive is this.
On March 04 2019 00:55 rsoultin wrote: The whole thing where LS's only 'scumread' out of 34 other people is MZ, and then he wants to kill Koshi screams to me of a Koshi that rolled scum and told his buddies to just lynch him.
If LS flips scum, MZ probably is scum, too, so that's three right there.
On March 04 2019 00:55 rsoultin wrote: The whole thing where LS's only 'scumread' out of 34 other people is MZ, and then he wants to kill Koshi screams to me of a Koshi that rolled scum and told his buddies to just lynch him.
If LS flips scum, MZ probably is scum, too, so that's three right there.
Koshi is confirmed town though so it's ok.
HOW THE FUCK IS HE CONFIRMED TOWN? HE NEVER FUCKING POSTED THIS ENTIRE GAME?
On March 04 2019 00:58 Holyflare wrote: Magic LightningStrike, magic
This exchange right here. How if a player who hasn't posted at that point in time even remotely close to being considered confirmed town? The only way that you would know this is if you actually knew his alignment.
Another gem. To discredit Palmar he uses this as one of his reasons to discredit him.
Can you really trust Palmar as mayor when he's not even top 7?
Bashing a player based on stats out of game rather than in game play? If you honestly believe (based on stats) that you are a better player than someone why do you need to bring that up as your reason? Should be good enough to win an election based on pure skill.
On March 05 2019 08:23 Holyflare wrote: Arbitrary list. Please tell me which of the ones I haven't read should be read asap. Bit annoying the bottom half of the player list has a lot of scummy people to read. I cba writing anymore so close to deadline.
tubesock (Could be wrong on him but his filter seems clean and he's making his own conclusions (albeit just on trfel, but trfel is the new flavour of the month and he was first so looks ok)
Fecalfeast (Don't hate anything he's said. In fact on page 2 of his filter everything he says there kind of aligns with what I've been thinking. His vote platform seems carefree and like he doesn't really give a shit, just wants to do his own thing. Very acro focused but not in an awful way. Content seems minimal though so he's not up at town.
Null
Onegu (legit has done 0 things)
Mr. Wiggles (seems resolute in looking at unturned stones, could just be blending but seems ok(?) Asked me to look into one of the T guys (tube?) but he didn't look bad in his filter at all so dropped to null)
WaveofShadow I want to believe Wave has a lack of emotion but he's done this exact thing of lurking and feigning before. I'd find it hard to motivate myself if I rolled mafia in this big game after a massive break like him too He hasn't got anything to go on really. Scummy just appearing.
Ace (Really has achieved not much. Voted me for mayor which is a big + and the things he says aren't not-towny in a vacuum but until he reaches a conclusion and votes not a placeholder for lynch there's really nothing to go on. Has weird posts in relation to BH when he hasn't really commented on much of the game apart from that)
Oatsmaster (don't hate his new direction - which is still seemingly every direction - but he's digging at least)
Tictock (This would absolutely be in the lower categories if it wasn't for his big appeal to emotion post against me which I have a big weakness for. I don't like that he decided to do the catch up style this game. He misses questions aimed towards him, gave up the style and ignored the pages in between. His logic has been wonky on a lot of people's posts and he seems to make a determined decision on someone's alignment and then make a narrative without weighing up both sides. But that AtE post though....)
ExO_ When reading through the thread there was a discussion that exo was present for and he kept asking random questions and not really interacting with it and I voted him for it. Upon reading his filter I got a completely different clean impression so he's in a null placeholder until I re-read that whole time he was in thread.
Scum-ish
Tumblewood (looks very low effort, may be mistaken on this though but it's a lot of questions that don't end up much of anywhere and lots of seemingly sentiment following on mayor lynches)
Trfel (Feel disgusting doing this (putting him in null) after he scum reads sentinel for something that happened almost 72 hours ago but I don't think he says he doesn't think Oats is posting like mafia and then backtracks and votes for him as mafia. That seems like something he'd be too self conscious to do. But then he says things like "oats (pressure vote)" as if he never meant it so this started as null but it's actually now scum-ish)
Acrofales (This dude has looked scummy quite a lot. First was when he said he was sheeping Palmar because he trusted him more to find scum while scum reading the person I wanted to lynch. Then he said I didn't look that great because I was scum reading Oats for bad reasons and then he made a list of why Oats was scum which was entirely made up of my reasons. Then I said I scum read rayn and he said he doesn't scum read rayn. When Palmar came with a bs reason to scum read rayn Acro basically reneged on his plan to vote me because he agreed that Rayn looked like mafia when nothing from rayn had happened in between. Every time I think about these occurrences it makes me want to drop him down further. Don't ask me why I don't. He has ok looking breakthroughs every now and again)
raynpelikoneet Talked through me. Ignroed rsoultin. Disappeared and reappeared to appeal to me and vote palmar/(think he disliked acro too). Conflicted heavily at the moment.
Scum
Blazinghand (No RNG, no posts of content. Just doing whatever to seem like the good towny martyr. I think I've seen him do this exact play before as mafia.)
Mocsta (This dude, does anyone know where his head is at? I sure don't. He +1s my post scum reading Palmar, gets in a shit show with Palmar and then somehow bows down to him after having a meltdown like 2.4 seconds before over Palmar's really weak Conversion read????????????? Just read his filter progression with me and Palmar and be prepared to go "What?")
Palmar - (wishy washy Iamp post, wishy washy Acro post. I call him out that he has no solid scum reads and he has to hunker down and scum read someone. Defaults to Sentinel still, can't see any motivation from sentinel other than scum motivation. He then makes some bs analysis of the wagons acknowledging that his wagon is the most scum motivated one to follow but doesn't use that to reevaluate anything and doesn't question which of the people on the wagon are scummy. He defends Pandain who has literally posted nothing but coaching.
Makes a movement for Rayn to be mafia based on Rayn's activity which hasn't meant anything since a long time now. Doesn't even get what Rayn said correct.
Doesn't even know what Damdred/Rsoul posted about LS. Not interested in figuring out game, instead tried to use others to prove his point.
Wants to vote Conversion because Conversion was lazy but attributes it to mafia motivation instead of just someone being lazy. That's the crux of his entire read. Fakes some floundering on it when Conversion posts some irl excuse, seems pretty forced.
After nothing in between Conversion drops off max scum vote list and is replaced with lurker and policy lynch. Not great at all.)
LightningStrike (No scum reads. Only mentioned MZ once or twice but never really actually said anything about him of substance. Rage quit from the thread but still votes and still afks in the background. He finds it really hard to write scum reads as scum because it's against his nature. He hasn't done the characteristic "these two are fighting so one of them is mafia" post that he always does as town. He hasn't really given anything to go on. Rage seemed forced. He's fucking voting Palmar, jeeeeezzuusss.)
Chezinu (This is without reading his filter and just off memory alone. He does not seem to be having fun, his RP posts are quite devoid of anything entertaining. He's been trying to determine if I'm blue. He has been actually posting reads and being serious which is a complete juxtaposition to any time I've ever ever seen Chezinu been town (or really mafia either) but from what I can see there seems to be agenda in Chez. I will update this on actually reading him because I can't remember a single one of his reads.
Now you may look at this and go “wtf why choose this post” However look at it. His confirmed 100% town were both capped and flipped green but one of his strongest scum reads and heavily leaned scum reads both flipped town. Meaning the only place he has been correct is where he places town reads. 1 of which he had a read on 100% before the player posted. Seems super fucking fishy.
She was on my radar day 1 as well. This shouldn't be a surprise.
1) She makes posts like this
On March 02 2019 20:35 rsoultin wrote: Like for me it breaks down like this:
You've got trolling people. You've got lurking people. You've got lazy people. You've got some overly aggressives that aren't giving me warm fuzzies (MP). You've got people I'm not sure about who when I'm not sure about them have a nasty habit of being scum (Rayn) but because he's burned me so often I'm not sure if that's not where the uncertainty's coming from.
And then you have seemingly excited to play, I respect the shit out of his intelligence Chez playing but not saying anything interesting. That first group can hide a lot of bad town play. But doing something without doing anything ticks off my scum meter to a higher degree.
Now what gets me from this is the characterization that Chez wasn't saying anything interesting. He was roleplaying sure, but he also had a string of very useful posts that weren't roleplay at all. As someone who dislikes lazy people, and trolling people perhaps doing a proper analysis of someones posting history to that point would you know? Non hypocritical.
On March 02 2019 20:58 rsoultin wrote: What are your reads that don't matter BC?
This was another read flag for me. A read that doesn't matter? Why would you ever want someone to actively give you information that is useless? Anyone can give a read but to provide no substance or reasoning for it is just useless and scummy. Asking for that info is just as bad.
Now the next things for me are this.
Chez is her #1 scum read. Rather than heavily pushing this (will admit she made an analysis post on him) She then waffles off wanting to off him (no real reason I could spot) then starts randomly sheeping other peoples reads
On March 03 2019 20:12 Palmar wrote: To be fair I mostly like Acro just for these two posts. They're the logical way to play the game.
Kill the policy lynch, continue playing.
On March 03 2019 17:09 Acrofales wrote: Enters Palmar: he claims to feel strongly about killing sent. So let him do it. All you need to decide is if Palmar is townie enough. But if we decide Palmar is townie enough to be mayor then he is free to kill whoever he likes. He sticks with sentinel and sentinel flips scum? We win, yay! Sheep Palmar into Armageddon. Sentinel flips town? We figure out if Palmars policy lynch is an ideological thing or a scum thing. Either way, we get information about Palmar out of this, which is a great thing to get out of D1.
On March 03 2019 17:11 Acrofales wrote: Oh, also, if sent was actually playing and being townie, I'd be more inclined to want him to live. But he has used this "foil" to be an attention whore and cop out of doing anything else so far. Not town play.
@Palmar, let's assume Acro is the leading lynch candidate but your vote could choose somebody else to lynch. Who would you lynch instead of Acro, that isn't Sent?
Palmar's entire post history seems to be super focused on this policy lynch of Sent -- that's it. Town Reads HF, Town Reads Acro. He's not wanting to scum hunt on day 1, but go all in on a policy lynch. I don't think I mind having a strong conviction about the policy lynch, but I think I do mind only green reading other people and only pushing your one policy lynch.
I think Palmar is scum.
I like Rayn's read on Palmar, ironically, cause I think they're both scum.
Palmar not playing on a weekend is Palmar-y. Palmar playing is Palmar-y. This half and half stuff I wouldn't trust with a 10-foot pole and I hate how much support he's gotten. I also hate that some of that is probably from shit town who just see the shiny name and go oh, Palmar, he's a god, let's check our brains at the door.
-cocks head at- So you've decided to play rather than whine about people saying a person who was only posting images was a good vig target?
So this post just makes me want to facepalm. Why? Because she basically just said because its Palmar hes mafia. Because he has any support hes mafia. More important she is bothered by the name he has and blames shit town for trying to vote him into the slot of mayor. Now we know that Palmar flipped town. So those people that voted for him clearly arent as shit as this read of hers is. Next thing with this is she doesn't decide to hard push her own reads instead she SHEEPS unto the BH bandwagon. The thing that gets me about this is this. SHE SAYS SHE THINKS HE IS TOWN AND STILL WANTS TO LYNCH HIM.
Why the fuck do you ever want to kill a town read? Like seriously. Why would you lynch someone you believe to be town. She has scumreads for fucks sake. Was active enough to push them. Instead lets push a town read for information because the potential information is better than offing a scum. Jesus fuck.
On March 06 2019 04:01 rsoultin wrote: Also, for the record, though I'm mocking the auto-lynch mindset perpetuated by people who can't think for themselves, a BH flip is still best for everyone and 100% should be facilitated before day phase so the idiots can have a chance to check their idiocy. Not that I'm holding my breath.
You want to lynch someone you think is town...,.......................... .
Yes that's what this post clearly meant good job proving why it's pointless for me to explain reads with this level of reading comprehension floating around the thread.
I just see things so scummy sometimes that I stare at my phone in disbelief.
You suggesting to lynch someone that is town to help clear the air is either scum motivated at best and at worst idiotic.
l2r
That post imo also sheds potential like on Iamp being killed. To my reading he was the only one to call her out for it..
This is mainly from a filter dive. Everything in it screams of someone coming in and skirting activity while posting nothing of substance. Hell he never comes into the thread and express a real reason or read to his vote on Trfel. Just sheeped onto it like nothing ever happened. Hell the only real time Tumblewood even expressed a read on Trfel it was a town read. So he sheeped a wagon to off a person he believed was town. Again, no fucking reason to do this ever. Clearly red.
Whatever the particulars of the bad Palmar scumread, I still think this is easily the most compelling reason for the HF scum case:
On March 06 2019 09:38 Blazinghand wrote: HF why did you claim a shot on me?
Here's a theory as to why HF did this. It is because he is scum.
In the Scum QT: Holyflare: Hey guys, the deadline is coming up. We know a vigi is going to shoot Blazinghand, and then probably claim after the daypost. Other Scums: yeah, sounds accurate to me. Holyflare: then Blazinghand will flip town, and i'm going to look real bad. Other Scums: oh no! Holyflare: ok, but here's the plan. I'm going to, right before the end of the night, with second on the clock, claim that I'm the vigi and am shooting BH. Other Scums: why would you do this HF? we're not shooting BH... Holflare: see, a vigi is going to shoot Blazinghand, and I will get autolynched D2 unless I can pose as the vigi who shot him. This will allow me to get in one more mislynch, as people will trust me. If the real vigi counterclaims, that's still a better situation than if I never claimed in the first place and just let myself get autolynched. Other Scums: good idea
Then, for some reason, I didn't get shot, and now HF has to just pretend he never claimed he was shooting me
HF has largely abandoned his provably false ideas of "well, I couldn't change the mayor lynch" given the way the mayor lynch is received mechanically and the fact he was in thread and watched and commented on the shenannnies as they went down. Just for killing Palmar is he scum? eh, maybe not. But for lying about it, then slithering away from the lie when called out? oh yeah baby
I will quite literally quote my mod PM post game to prove it. Please stop posting this trash. I stand by my statement that it was locked in before I could say anything.
On March 05 2019 01:01 kitaman27 wrote: In case there was any confusion regarding the mechanics of the mayor lynch, the night post will be delayed until the mayor submits their lynch. If the leading candidates do not anticipate being around for the deadline and want to submit their lynch via PM ahead of time, that is fine. The game will be paused until the mayor lynch has been submitted and then the night post will be posted, revealing the alignments and roles of both lynched players.
Holyflare where in this does it say that you can’t change your lynch
Can we just fucking drop this and I will prove it to you after the game?
So we have Holyflare claiming he would absolutely 100% have changed his vote, but he couldn't. We have no evidence pointing to say that he couldn't. And we have Holyflare claiming that he didn't want to change his vote anyway. We also have him claiming he was too tired, despite not going to bed until at least 2 hours later:
So Holyflare is just throwing reasons around for why he ended up killing Palmar, and definitely can't keep is story straight. What is it? Was it locked in? Or did he not even try? Don't bother answering, as the answer doesn't really matter. The point of this exchange is that holyflare was waffling. And when he got caught wafffling, he started to mix up the story.
This is because the entire story was made up in the first place. Holyflare never had the slightest intent of switching to him, as exhibited by the timeline above. Holyflare was here and active, and was even trolling us about killing or not killing Palmar. Which brings us to exhibit B.
Exhibit B: the post-flip victory dance Your honor, I call my first witness Dr. P. S. Ychologist. Now bear with me, this will be a bit long. But at the end it will be demonstrated beyond a doubt that the motive for killing Palmar can only come from mafia.
Dr. Ychologist, what do you think of Holyflare's personality? "Well, I don't know the young man very well, but everything I have seen about him is that he suffers from the narcissistic egomaniac syndrome"
Ah. And what does this mean? "It means that he cannot fathom that the world does not revolve around him. He cannot be wrong, nor can it be that someone else is perhaps held in higher esteem at any point. I would like to add that this is being generous. If the young man is perchance not an egomaniac then there is absolutely no way we could possibly explain his behaviour as upright. Egomania is a serious disorder, but not necessarily mafia."
Okay, so you believe holyflare's mindset is that of a mafioso, despite his disorder, and not because of it. "That is correct."
Right. But why? "Well, let us imagine we are the young accused. It is almost flip time and the mayor vote cannot possibly elude him. He is feeling empowered, ya? He is the king of town, and he has found a scum Palmar."
Wait. As an egomaniac does he care that Palmar is scum? Or does he only care that Palmar was a competitor? "We have questioned the accused, and present the transcripts. There is no doubt about his claims: he says he believed the victim to be a mafioso"
On March 06 2019 22:01 Tubesock wrote: I’d scum the shit out if HF if he platformed killing Palmar, cased and scumread him, and didn’t kill him. Maybe MAYBE not if he killed scum instead. I think I’d still think he could be scum for killing a lurker mafia.
To me the ONLY plausible reason to scumread HF is because he said he tried to change it. And even that is 50/50 really. Everything else he’s done has been good for town.
People say he has a big ego, you think he thought Palmar was scum and wouldn’t shoot for epic plays???
You voters should be arguing that HF didn’t really believe his Palmar case.
But you can’t cause he did.
This! This is the thing that makes all "HF is scum" believers either retards or mafia.
You're scumming me, but I literally did that.
On March 06 2019 20:50 Acrofales wrote:
I know you're new here, but what the hell is this? Doing "specifically pro-mafia stuff" is stuff town doesn't do. You say it's a bad read, but him killing Palmar was almost entirely off his ego being too big for Palmar to beat him in a mayor election. There isn't even any townie reasoning there, it is entirely based on "goal 1": the town isn't big enough for the two of them, so he kills Palmar. It wasn't a "bad read". It wasn't a read at all.
I don't have time right now to collect all my notes in one place, but this is clearly important. So here is his Palmar case:
On March 04 2019 18:14 Holyflare wrote:
On March 04 2019 18:09 Jockmcplop wrote:
On March 04 2019 18:07 Holyflare wrote: My mayor lynch will be on Palmar by the way.
I can get behind this, but what's the reasoning behind it?
Only talks about town reads, has no suspicions on pretty much anything in the game. Perpetuates nonsense policy lynch after he likes Sentinel's effort when he hasn't even read it. His last post about acro is entirely a wall of hedge whereby he looks like he's falsely weighing up Acro's alignment but really it's wishy washy and says nothing.
His iamp read looks completely bs too for similar reasons to his acro read. Iamp is town but wait here's reasons I can say he's not town later in the game.
None of this is concrete town palmar stuff. There's also the fact we can acknowledge that mafia were pushing for his candidacy if he does flip mafia
This was on sunday evening, when he was mostly right that Palmar hadn't played much yet. But they were both around all of monday, and nothing happened except HF's ego got more hurt:
On March 05 2019 06:38 Holyflare wrote: Palmar (11): Palmar, Ticktock, Meapak_Zipphh, Acrofales, Vivax, WaveofShadow, Grackaroni, Conversion, Alakaslam, Trfel, Blazinghand
How has this guy got 11 people voting for him when his sole policy is only to kill Sentinel who doesn't even look bad?
Almost the entirety, if not THE entirety of this wagon is the sketchiest people in this game. It's even growing!
And this one is blatantly false:
On March 05 2019 07:18 Holyflare wrote: Especially now that more people are actually voting him when he has said nothing else of value.
Like... I did the exercise at the time, and tried to read Palmar as scum. I got through the weekend thinking he might be right, because Palmar posted a policy lynch and a bunch of town reads. I did find he was throwing off townie vibes, but figured it might have been him throwing me a green read to bedazzle me. But all of monday (the above post is made an hour and a bit before deadline), Palmar was deep diving people, engaging people, and hunting scum. Classifying that as "nothing of value" is nonsense.
So no, HF really didn't have much of a case on Palmar at all. Definitely not one that shows conviction, and certainly not one where he is trying to actually figure out if he's right or not. He parked the case on Sunday evening and didn't bother analysing anything Palmar did all of Monday.
Now I get that HF is apparently an egomaniac, but he is completely uncritical of his read. He doesn't return to it, just reiterates any time anybody asks that he will kill Palmar. Lamp and Koshi come to their own conclusions of Palmar. They were obviously wrong, but you can see their thought process and you can see Koshi engage with Palmar about it. Not so at all with HF.
This is pretty misconstrued. Who did Palmar want to kill other than sentinel? Who the fuck knows until right near deadline where he finally posted something and also spammed wiggles. This also isn't all I posted in the slightest:
On March 05 2019 10:03 Holyflare wrote:
On March 05 2019 09:53 marvellosity wrote: HF mate, why did you actually kill Palmar?
I don't want a quote from your posts, just the actual reason(s)
? I thought his early posts were colossally bad. I didn't like how he kept coming up with reasons to read people one way or another that on closer inspection turned out to be massively false and then he'd just brush it away.
This happened with:
Rayn - where he came up with some factually incorrect meta and falsehoods in this game that got disproved and then called out by Rayn himself and Palmar just hand waved it away
LS read - where he tried to further his incorrect point that he must be right on LS because rsoul and damdred agreed with him (and also therefore damdred must be town because they agreed on LS(????????????????)). It turned out neither of them really agreed anymore but he didn't update that read on damdred
At the time I submitted the vote on palmar he had only 2 real attempts at scum reads and they turned out to be hedges instead on both acro and iamp so he really had no scum reads. He only started trying to scum read people after I called him out on it.
Outside of Palmar himself there was an overwhelming wagon building on Palmar's mayorship out of nowhere. He had only stated that he was going to lynch sentinel and then after Sentinel posted not bad walls of text he never updated that read. His wagon kept growing but with nobody really casting doubt on Sentinel further (other than like 1-2 people) so Palmar seemed to be in direct contention with my mayor votes for absolutely no reason whatsoever (I even had sentinel as my lynch policy for a long while).
I ultimately ended up still lynching Palmar:
A) because my vote was locked in and I never really got to change it to BH when your slot and vivax saved him
B) I would much rather have fun with a lynch on a really polarising player to lynch instead of some shitty policy lynch anyway that may or may not have actually turned into a scum BH. We now have about 100 different reads on this lynch and we have the flip to boot. It wouldn't have been the same if Palmar didn't flip either.
I was tempted to vote some non-entity but that's really really fucking boring and wouldn't be fun.
Palmar - (wishy washy Iamp post, wishy washy Acro post. I call him out that he has no solid scum reads and he has to hunker down and scum read someone. Defaults to Sentinel still, can't see any motivation from sentinel other than scum motivation. He then makes some bs analysis of the wagons acknowledging that his wagon is the most scum motivated one to follow but doesn't use that to reevaluate anything and doesn't question which of the people on the wagon are scummy. He defends Pandain who has literally posted nothing but coaching.
Makes a movement for Rayn to be mafia based on Rayn's activity which hasn't meant anything since a long time now. Doesn't even get what Rayn said correct.
Doesn't even know what Damdred/Rsoul posted about LS. Not interested in figuring out game, instead tried to use others to prove his point.
Wants to vote Conversion because Conversion was lazy but attributes it to mafia motivation instead of just someone being lazy. That's the crux of his entire read. Fakes some floundering on it when Conversion posts some irl excuse, seems pretty forced.
After nothing in between Conversion drops off max scum vote list and is replaced with lurker and policy lynch. Not great at all.)
"When further pressed upon this matter he let there be no doubt he absolutely believed Palmar to be a mafioso at the time"
On March 06 2019 22:01 Tubesock wrote: I’d scum the shit out if HF if he platformed killing Palmar, cased and scumread him, and didn’t kill him. Maybe MAYBE not if he killed scum instead. I think I’d still think he could be scum for killing a lurker mafia.
To me the ONLY plausible reason to scumread HF is because he said he tried to change it. And even that is 50/50 really. Everything else he’s done has been good for town.
People say he has a big ego, you think he thought Palmar was scum and wouldn’t shoot for epic plays???
You voters should be arguing that HF didn’t really believe his Palmar case.
But you can’t cause he did.
This! This is the thing that makes all "HF is scum" believers either retards or mafia.
You're scumming me, but I literally did that.
On March 06 2019 20:50 Acrofales wrote:
I know you're new here, but what the hell is this? Doing "specifically pro-mafia stuff" is stuff town doesn't do. You say it's a bad read, but him killing Palmar was almost entirely off his ego being too big for Palmar to beat him in a mayor election. There isn't even any townie reasoning there, it is entirely based on "goal 1": the town isn't big enough for the two of them, so he kills Palmar. It wasn't a "bad read". It wasn't a read at all.
I don't have time right now to collect all my notes in one place, but this is clearly important. So here is his Palmar case:
On March 04 2019 18:14 Holyflare wrote:
On March 04 2019 18:09 Jockmcplop wrote:
On March 04 2019 18:07 Holyflare wrote: My mayor lynch will be on Palmar by the way.
I can get behind this, but what's the reasoning behind it?
Only talks about town reads, has no suspicions on pretty much anything in the game. Perpetuates nonsense policy lynch after he likes Sentinel's effort when he hasn't even read it. His last post about acro is entirely a wall of hedge whereby he looks like he's falsely weighing up Acro's alignment but really it's wishy washy and says nothing.
His iamp read looks completely bs too for similar reasons to his acro read. Iamp is town but wait here's reasons I can say he's not town later in the game.
None of this is concrete town palmar stuff. There's also the fact we can acknowledge that mafia were pushing for his candidacy if he does flip mafia
This was on sunday evening, when he was mostly right that Palmar hadn't played much yet. But they were both around all of monday, and nothing happened except HF's ego got more hurt:
On March 05 2019 06:38 Holyflare wrote: Palmar (11): Palmar, Ticktock, Meapak_Zipphh, Acrofales, Vivax, WaveofShadow, Grackaroni, Conversion, Alakaslam, Trfel, Blazinghand
How has this guy got 11 people voting for him when his sole policy is only to kill Sentinel who doesn't even look bad?
Almost the entirety, if not THE entirety of this wagon is the sketchiest people in this game. It's even growing!
And this one is blatantly false:
On March 05 2019 07:18 Holyflare wrote: Especially now that more people are actually voting him when he has said nothing else of value.
Like... I did the exercise at the time, and tried to read Palmar as scum. I got through the weekend thinking he might be right, because Palmar posted a policy lynch and a bunch of town reads. I did find he was throwing off townie vibes, but figured it might have been him throwing me a green read to bedazzle me. But all of monday (the above post is made an hour and a bit before deadline), Palmar was deep diving people, engaging people, and hunting scum. Classifying that as "nothing of value" is nonsense.
So no, HF really didn't have much of a case on Palmar at all. Definitely not one that shows conviction, and certainly not one where he is trying to actually figure out if he's right or not. He parked the case on Sunday evening and didn't bother analysing anything Palmar did all of Monday.
Now I get that HF is apparently an egomaniac, but he is completely uncritical of his read. He doesn't return to it, just reiterates any time anybody asks that he will kill Palmar. Lamp and Koshi come to their own conclusions of Palmar. They were obviously wrong, but you can see their thought process and you can see Koshi engage with Palmar about it. Not so at all with HF.
This is pretty misconstrued. Who did Palmar want to kill other than sentinel? Who the fuck knows until right near deadline where he finally posted something and also spammed wiggles. This also isn't all I posted in the slightest:
On March 05 2019 10:03 Holyflare wrote:
On March 05 2019 09:53 marvellosity wrote: HF mate, why did you actually kill Palmar?
I don't want a quote from your posts, just the actual reason(s)
? I thought his early posts were colossally bad. I didn't like how he kept coming up with reasons to read people one way or another that on closer inspection turned out to be massively false and then he'd just brush it away.
This happened with:
Rayn - where he came up with some factually incorrect meta and falsehoods in this game that got disproved and then called out by Rayn himself and Palmar just hand waved it away
LS read - where he tried to further his incorrect point that he must be right on LS because rsoul and damdred agreed with him (and also therefore damdred must be town because they agreed on LS(????????????????)). It turned out neither of them really agreed anymore but he didn't update that read on damdred
At the time I submitted the vote on palmar he had only 2 real attempts at scum reads and they turned out to be hedges instead on both acro and iamp so he really had no scum reads. He only started trying to scum read people after I called him out on it.
Outside of Palmar himself there was an overwhelming wagon building on Palmar's mayorship out of nowhere. He had only stated that he was going to lynch sentinel and then after Sentinel posted not bad walls of text he never updated that read. His wagon kept growing but with nobody really casting doubt on Sentinel further (other than like 1-2 people) so Palmar seemed to be in direct contention with my mayor votes for absolutely no reason whatsoever (I even had sentinel as my lynch policy for a long while).
I ultimately ended up still lynching Palmar:
A) because my vote was locked in and I never really got to change it to BH when your slot and vivax saved him
B) I would much rather have fun with a lynch on a really polarising player to lynch instead of some shitty policy lynch anyway that may or may not have actually turned into a scum BH. We now have about 100 different reads on this lynch and we have the flip to boot. It wouldn't have been the same if Palmar didn't flip either.
I was tempted to vote some non-entity but that's really really fucking boring and wouldn't be fun.
Palmar - (wishy washy Iamp post, wishy washy Acro post. I call him out that he has no solid scum reads and he has to hunker down and scum read someone. Defaults to Sentinel still, can't see any motivation from sentinel other than scum motivation. He then makes some bs analysis of the wagons acknowledging that his wagon is the most scum motivated one to follow but doesn't use that to reevaluate anything and doesn't question which of the people on the wagon are scummy. He defends Pandain who has literally posted nothing but coaching.
Makes a movement for Rayn to be mafia based on Rayn's activity which hasn't meant anything since a long time now. Doesn't even get what Rayn said correct.
Doesn't even know what Damdred/Rsoul posted about LS. Not interested in figuring out game, instead tried to use others to prove his point.
Wants to vote Conversion because Conversion was lazy but attributes it to mafia motivation instead of just someone being lazy. That's the crux of his entire read. Fakes some floundering on it when Conversion posts some irl excuse, seems pretty forced.
After nothing in between Conversion drops off max scum vote list and is replaced with lurker and policy lynch. Not great at all.)
The former is literally after the lynch happened. The latter is a list post half an hour before the lynch when you've been harping on about Palmar all day. Both are a posteriori justifications rather than actually engaging him. And in particular the latter about when Palmar started scumhunting is quite blatantly false. But we can argue about that until we're both blue in the face, because you'll probably just "no true Scotsman" his scumhunting, just like rayn just did.
No, it is not false. I called Palmar out with the original paragraph where I said I wanted to lynch him, with which you even explicitly said you agreed with. Then Palmar started scum hunting and I thought everything he said was scummy.
Also how have I not interacted with Palmar? Almost everything in my list post case is because I interacted with Palmar to make him elaborate on those mistakes. Unless now you're adding another reason that me being on holiday and not formulating everything into one central place until I actually had time to on a PC is scummy?
So there is no doubt this was not just done for the lolz? "No. Even though the lolz might have figured into the kill. He claims he was doing it in order to rid Liquidia of scum"
This seems like a very noble deed. But it is not true, is it? "Unfortunately not. To see why, we need to analyse the young man's behaviour when the deed was done. The accused was cocky. He was even --- what do the kids these days call it? --- trolling. Let us be charitable and attribute this to the young man being extremely certain he was murdering a mafioso."
On March 05 2019 08:37 Koshi wrote: [quote] I think you are mafia and I told you why.
Disconnect in every other post you made. That is enough.
Show me the disconnects, that's simply not true. I already explained the two disconnects that exist. If you show me more I can explain them too, nothing even has merit except for those two.
@Holyflare, I'd take another look at Fecalfeast and Mocsta. Mocsta's play felt honest and genuine to me, admittedly he hasn't done much but I don't think that's mafia indicative. I know that Fecalfeast enjoys playing scum (heck he has one of the highest mafia winrates on the site) and he's relaxed and carefree as mafia, IIRC he's more relaxed and carefree and fun-loving as mafia than town. As mafia he plays to exist and survive, not to push stuff, and that's exactly what he is doing here. Otherwise, just please don't start a big fight between you and raynnpelikoneet or anyone else that causes massive tunnels.
Can you explain the mocsta progression on Palmar then? How can he go from so rage-y and agreeing with my posts against Palmar to suddenly voting Conversion with palmar and agreeing like nothing had happened?
Huh. To be honest I couldn't tell you. I guess never mind me then, I'm still not really convinced he's mafia but I couldn't (and wouldn't) stop anyone who said otherwise.
You and Exo
You guys need to explain your scumread on me
But I don't have a scumread on you?
I'm just trusting Holyflare. The whole saving me thing and all.
Why are you voting to lynch me then?
I'm not? Unless you mean voting Holyflare for mayor, because I trust him to do the right thing. And I kinda expect he won't kill you, but I probably shouldn't say that, it makes him more likely to. But you asked.
On March 05 2019 09:38 Holyflare wrote: You guys knew what you were voting for :D
There is no surprise. No remorse. No self-doubt. Now this could have been explained from a deceipted townsman if he had claimed he was doing it, as they say 'for the lulz'. It would even fit his egomaniac personality to do it only for this reason. But that is not what the accused has claimed. So let us put ourselves in his shoes for a second: he has been voted 'the blade of Liquidia' and in front of him stands the evil Palmar, lord of scumsters united. He thrusts his blade straight into Palmar's heart and a spurt of blue blood streams out as Palmar yells, with his dying breath + Show Spoiler [I'm a cop you idiot] +
The instinctive reaction of an upright townie who truly believed that Palmar was scum, regardless of narcissism, would be shock, disbelief, remorse. Yet none of that is evident in the accused's reaction. He seems... self-satisfied"
Self-satisfied? "Yes. He doesn't blame himself. He immediately shifts the blame to "those who voted for him". Moreover, he is happy about it, as evidenced by his smiling laugh. This is not the look of a man devastated by his bad choice. This is the look of a man who has pulled off the caper of a century, yet has to somehow dissimulate it all as a big mistake."
Aha. So there is no way this could just be egomaniacal pride about having shiv'd Palmar for the lulz? "It is my informed opinion that that is not possible. He is fully aware that he looks guilty as all hell, yet is somehow still flippant about it:
On March 05 2019 09:39 Holyflare wrote: not mafia tho
Combine this with his insistance that he was scumreading Palmar all game, and it just doesn't add up."
Thank you very much for your help, Dr. Ychologist.
The prosecution rests their case. We deem it shown beyond a shadow of a doubt that holyflare murdered Palmar with mafioso intentions, and we request the maximum penalty: death by lynching.
And this:
On March 06 2019 09:38 Blazinghand wrote: HF why did you claim a shot on me?
Here's a theory as to why HF did this. It is because he is scum.
In the Scum QT: Holyflare: Hey guys, the deadline is coming up. We know a vigi is going to shoot Blazinghand, and then probably claim after the daypost. Other Scums: yeah, sounds accurate to me. Holyflare: then Blazinghand will flip town, and i'm going to look real bad. Other Scums: oh no! Holyflare: ok, but here's the plan. I'm going to, right before the end of the night, with second on the clock, claim that I'm the vigi and am shooting BH. Other Scums: why would you do this HF? we're not shooting BH... Holflare: see, a vigi is going to shoot Blazinghand, and I will get autolynched D2 unless I can pose as the vigi who shot him. This will allow me to get in one more mislynch, as people will trust me. If the real vigi counterclaims, that's still a better situation than if I never claimed in the first place and just let myself get autolynched. Other Scums: good idea
Then, for some reason, I didn't get shot, and now HF has to just pretend he never claimed he was shooting me
On March 08 2019 03:11 Tubesock wrote: Ace, if I think someone is faking their rage I doubt I could care less if they were mad at me too.
If you think the rage is fake, then them not being fake mad at you for being on the wagon is my point. Unless you think they're terrible scum don't you see they'd at least go to the trouble, see you on the wagon they should be mad at, and try to push you as a suspect for that reason?
If he’d have done that I probably would have thought it was less fake and maybe towned him for it.
But he only went on about HF and called him stupid and retarded and whatever. He may have spoken about the electors once? Twice? Nothing compared to the vitriol he spewed at HF.
And frankly I think we should punish that behavior. Stupid or mafia? So basically Acro was towning HF the entire time.
Plus, my other point that seems you missed was that the rage he showed was more fitting if HF did that out of the blue, not been saying he would for 24+ odd hours.
You seem to miss the bit where I tried to talk him, and all the little Trumplings out of it and nobody listened. Just because Trump was saying he would build the wall doesn't mean you can't be upset when (after disagreeing with it all game) he goes and actually builds it.
And you seem to think that *when* he builds the wall I should be more upset at the Trumplings and less upset at Trump Wut?
On March 08 2019 03:41 darthfoley wrote: so i have 75 pages to read... and i'm getting shoulder surgery tomorrow and my arm will be in a sling for a month.
I'll spend the next couple hours trying to make sense of this stuff and be useful for once. If you want to vig me, that might be ideal lol
If there are major points of contention and/or stuff I should definitely read, please let me know. Otherwise i'll be just stream of consciousness posting as I catch up.
Read the last few pages of my filter and Rayns filter and Mocsta's filter. Every one else is just back and forth between HF and BH.
On March 08 2019 03:41 darthfoley wrote: so i have 75 pages to read... and i'm getting shoulder surgery tomorrow and my arm will be in a sling for a month.
I'll spend the next couple hours trying to make sense of this stuff and be useful for once. If you want to vig me, that might be ideal lol
If there are major points of contention and/or stuff I should definitely read, please let me know. Otherwise i'll be just stream of consciousness posting as I catch up.
Read the last few pages of my filter and Rayns filter and Mocsta's filter. Every one else is just back and forth between HF and BH.
Do you think rayn is town? And why?
No I don't. If Rayn is town then I am probably massively misreading the game.
On March 08 2019 03:41 darthfoley wrote: so i have 75 pages to read... and i'm getting shoulder surgery tomorrow and my arm will be in a sling for a month.
I'll spend the next couple hours trying to make sense of this stuff and be useful for once. If you want to vig me, that might be ideal lol
If there are major points of contention and/or stuff I should definitely read, please let me know. Otherwise i'll be just stream of consciousness posting as I catch up.
Read the last few pages of my filter and Rayns filter and Mocsta's filter. Every one else is just back and forth between HF and BH.
Do you think rayn is town? And why?
No I don't. If Rayn is town then I am probably massively misreading the game.
Then why did you recommend DF reads his filter?
Because he's one of three people that have contributed non-HF/BH scumhunting posts in this cycle.
The poor guy has to do 2 things before he worries aobut that tho:
1. Decide whether HF is scum. 2. If not, decide whehter BH is scum.
If he believes both are town *then* he needs to worry about rayn and everybody else in this game. Rayn, Mocsta and your filter do not help at all with that.
On March 04 2019 23:30 Palmar wrote: go after mocsta -> threatens to kill himself go after conversion -> leaves the game
I may have a problem.
You’re not the problem. Neither is HF.
? If Palmar wasn't a problem then why was your vote to have him killed at this point?
I actually dived into your filter to find where you strong townread HF... and I don't see it at all. You made up your mind HF was town at the start of the game based on... nothing? And your comment after nightfall was about me, not about HF at all. In fact, it's the post that is continuously quoted here that has the whole ramble about how wonderful it would have been if HF had killed scum!Palmar.
Why are you townreading HF?
It started with agreement on a semi long stream of posts. And other small things that he did that I doubt mafia HF would bother with.
While I certainly will semi ignore someone I town from time to time, HF’s townread can disappear quite fast. I’m always watching what he does.
I’ve been called contrarian many times. But I truly believe that him sticking to what he said he’d do (shoot Palmar) is far more likely to come from town HF. I do think MafiaHF would have never pushed Palmar and instead gone after one of the other prominent towns and killed them instead. Rayn he could have killed at the time as most were lukewarm on him at the time. Or whoever.
Okay. I need a bit more. Do you dismiss the confusion that HF has about why he didn't switch his lynch to BH? He both claims it was locked in, and that he didn't even try to switch it. That's some extreme confusion about the most important moment in his gameplay up til then. Lemme quote the relevant posts again:
On March 05 2019 09:41 Holyflare wrote: for the record if I knew bh was not getting lynched I would have absolutely switched it to him but it was already locked in
Shocker I know right? The guy literally led us down a wrong path all fucking game. He has lied by his own admission multiple times. He claimed he would mayor lynch Sentinel, then Palmar. Said he wasn't serious on the Palmar lynch, then says he lies a few hours before deadline and offs Palmar who flips backup cop. He said he shot BH then claimed that he only did so to create tension in the thread. However his outrage about the game being full of blues seems one that an angry mafia could make. The other thing that gets me about his lying is he claims that he couldnt change his mayor vote because it was locked in while being insanely active right at the time the lynch was happening so could have changed it had he wished but claimed
On March 05 2019 09:41 Holyflare wrote: for the record if I knew bh was not getting lynched I would have absolutely switched it to him but it was already locked in
how is it locked in ?
that makes no sense you could have changed
I don't think so? I PMd it saying lynch palmar a long time ago when it was called for in the thread and when the deadline came I was told it was palmar selected. Didn't really get given any other opportunity but it is what it is.
Unless things have drastically changed since I played this game. If you had any action you could take whatsoever you could change it more than once before a deadline hit. So if this has changed feel free to correct me but until then this is a straight up fucking lie.
Next few thing that gets me however that stood out after a filter dive is this.
On March 04 2019 00:55 rsoultin wrote: The whole thing where LS's only 'scumread' out of 34 other people is MZ, and then he wants to kill Koshi screams to me of a Koshi that rolled scum and told his buddies to just lynch him.
If LS flips scum, MZ probably is scum, too, so that's three right there.
On March 04 2019 00:55 rsoultin wrote: The whole thing where LS's only 'scumread' out of 34 other people is MZ, and then he wants to kill Koshi screams to me of a Koshi that rolled scum and told his buddies to just lynch him.
If LS flips scum, MZ probably is scum, too, so that's three right there.
Koshi is confirmed town though so it's ok.
HOW THE FUCK IS HE CONFIRMED TOWN? HE NEVER FUCKING POSTED THIS ENTIRE GAME?
On March 04 2019 00:58 Holyflare wrote: Magic LightningStrike, magic
This exchange right here. How if a player who hasn't posted at that point in time even remotely close to being considered confirmed town? The only way that you would know this is if you actually knew his alignment.
Another gem. To discredit Palmar he uses this as one of his reasons to discredit him.
Can you really trust Palmar as mayor when he's not even top 7?
Bashing a player based on stats out of game rather than in game play? If you honestly believe (based on stats) that you are a better player than someone why do you need to bring that up as your reason? Should be good enough to win an election based on pure skill.
On March 05 2019 08:23 Holyflare wrote: Arbitrary list. Please tell me which of the ones I haven't read should be read asap. Bit annoying the bottom half of the player list has a lot of scummy people to read. I cba writing anymore so close to deadline.
tubesock (Could be wrong on him but his filter seems clean and he's making his own conclusions (albeit just on trfel, but trfel is the new flavour of the month and he was first so looks ok)
Fecalfeast (Don't hate anything he's said. In fact on page 2 of his filter everything he says there kind of aligns with what I've been thinking. His vote platform seems carefree and like he doesn't really give a shit, just wants to do his own thing. Very acro focused but not in an awful way. Content seems minimal though so he's not up at town.
Null
Onegu (legit has done 0 things)
Mr. Wiggles (seems resolute in looking at unturned stones, could just be blending but seems ok(?) Asked me to look into one of the T guys (tube?) but he didn't look bad in his filter at all so dropped to null)
WaveofShadow I want to believe Wave has a lack of emotion but he's done this exact thing of lurking and feigning before. I'd find it hard to motivate myself if I rolled mafia in this big game after a massive break like him too He hasn't got anything to go on really. Scummy just appearing.
Ace (Really has achieved not much. Voted me for mayor which is a big + and the things he says aren't not-towny in a vacuum but until he reaches a conclusion and votes not a placeholder for lynch there's really nothing to go on. Has weird posts in relation to BH when he hasn't really commented on much of the game apart from that)
Oatsmaster (don't hate his new direction - which is still seemingly every direction - but he's digging at least)
Tictock (This would absolutely be in the lower categories if it wasn't for his big appeal to emotion post against me which I have a big weakness for. I don't like that he decided to do the catch up style this game. He misses questions aimed towards him, gave up the style and ignored the pages in between. His logic has been wonky on a lot of people's posts and he seems to make a determined decision on someone's alignment and then make a narrative without weighing up both sides. But that AtE post though....)
ExO_ When reading through the thread there was a discussion that exo was present for and he kept asking random questions and not really interacting with it and I voted him for it. Upon reading his filter I got a completely different clean impression so he's in a null placeholder until I re-read that whole time he was in thread.
Scum-ish
Tumblewood (looks very low effort, may be mistaken on this though but it's a lot of questions that don't end up much of anywhere and lots of seemingly sentiment following on mayor lynches)
Trfel (Feel disgusting doing this (putting him in null) after he scum reads sentinel for something that happened almost 72 hours ago but I don't think he says he doesn't think Oats is posting like mafia and then backtracks and votes for him as mafia. That seems like something he'd be too self conscious to do. But then he says things like "oats (pressure vote)" as if he never meant it so this started as null but it's actually now scum-ish)
Acrofales (This dude has looked scummy quite a lot. First was when he said he was sheeping Palmar because he trusted him more to find scum while scum reading the person I wanted to lynch. Then he said I didn't look that great because I was scum reading Oats for bad reasons and then he made a list of why Oats was scum which was entirely made up of my reasons. Then I said I scum read rayn and he said he doesn't scum read rayn. When Palmar came with a bs reason to scum read rayn Acro basically reneged on his plan to vote me because he agreed that Rayn looked like mafia when nothing from rayn had happened in between. Every time I think about these occurrences it makes me want to drop him down further. Don't ask me why I don't. He has ok looking breakthroughs every now and again)
raynpelikoneet Talked through me. Ignroed rsoultin. Disappeared and reappeared to appeal to me and vote palmar/(think he disliked acro too). Conflicted heavily at the moment.
Scum
Blazinghand (No RNG, no posts of content. Just doing whatever to seem like the good towny martyr. I think I've seen him do this exact play before as mafia.)
Mocsta (This dude, does anyone know where his head is at? I sure don't. He +1s my post scum reading Palmar, gets in a shit show with Palmar and then somehow bows down to him after having a meltdown like 2.4 seconds before over Palmar's really weak Conversion read????????????? Just read his filter progression with me and Palmar and be prepared to go "What?")
Palmar - (wishy washy Iamp post, wishy washy Acro post. I call him out that he has no solid scum reads and he has to hunker down and scum read someone. Defaults to Sentinel still, can't see any motivation from sentinel other than scum motivation. He then makes some bs analysis of the wagons acknowledging that his wagon is the most scum motivated one to follow but doesn't use that to reevaluate anything and doesn't question which of the people on the wagon are scummy. He defends Pandain who has literally posted nothing but coaching.
Makes a movement for Rayn to be mafia based on Rayn's activity which hasn't meant anything since a long time now. Doesn't even get what Rayn said correct.
Doesn't even know what Damdred/Rsoul posted about LS. Not interested in figuring out game, instead tried to use others to prove his point.
Wants to vote Conversion because Conversion was lazy but attributes it to mafia motivation instead of just someone being lazy. That's the crux of his entire read. Fakes some floundering on it when Conversion posts some irl excuse, seems pretty forced.
After nothing in between Conversion drops off max scum vote list and is replaced with lurker and policy lynch. Not great at all.)
LightningStrike (No scum reads. Only mentioned MZ once or twice but never really actually said anything about him of substance. Rage quit from the thread but still votes and still afks in the background. He finds it really hard to write scum reads as scum because it's against his nature. He hasn't done the characteristic "these two are fighting so one of them is mafia" post that he always does as town. He hasn't really given anything to go on. Rage seemed forced. He's fucking voting Palmar, jeeeeezzuusss.)
Chezinu (This is without reading his filter and just off memory alone. He does not seem to be having fun, his RP posts are quite devoid of anything entertaining. He's been trying to determine if I'm blue. He has been actually posting reads and being serious which is a complete juxtaposition to any time I've ever ever seen Chezinu been town (or really mafia either) but from what I can see there seems to be agenda in Chez. I will update this on actually reading him because I can't remember a single one of his reads.
Now you may look at this and go “wtf why choose this post” However look at it. His confirmed 100% town were both capped and flipped green but one of his strongest scum reads and heavily leaned scum reads both flipped town. Meaning the only place he has been correct is where he places town reads. 1 of which he had a read on 100% before the player posted. Seems super fucking fishy.
She was on my radar day 1 as well. This shouldn't be a surprise.
1) She makes posts like this
On March 02 2019 20:35 rsoultin wrote: Like for me it breaks down like this:
You've got trolling people. You've got lurking people. You've got lazy people. You've got some overly aggressives that aren't giving me warm fuzzies (MP). You've got people I'm not sure about who when I'm not sure about them have a nasty habit of being scum (Rayn) but because he's burned me so often I'm not sure if that's not where the uncertainty's coming from.
And then you have seemingly excited to play, I respect the shit out of his intelligence Chez playing but not saying anything interesting. That first group can hide a lot of bad town play. But doing something without doing anything ticks off my scum meter to a higher degree.
Now what gets me from this is the characterization that Chez wasn't saying anything interesting. He was roleplaying sure, but he also had a string of very useful posts that weren't roleplay at all. As someone who dislikes lazy people, and trolling people perhaps doing a proper analysis of someones posting history to that point would you know? Non hypocritical.
On March 02 2019 20:58 rsoultin wrote: What are your reads that don't matter BC?
This was another read flag for me. A read that doesn't matter? Why would you ever want someone to actively give you information that is useless? Anyone can give a read but to provide no substance or reasoning for it is just useless and scummy. Asking for that info is just as bad.
Now the next things for me are this.
Chez is her #1 scum read. Rather than heavily pushing this (will admit she made an analysis post on him) She then waffles off wanting to off him (no real reason I could spot) then starts randomly sheeping other peoples reads
On March 03 2019 20:12 Palmar wrote: To be fair I mostly like Acro just for these two posts. They're the logical way to play the game.
Kill the policy lynch, continue playing.
On March 03 2019 17:09 Acrofales wrote: Enters Palmar: he claims to feel strongly about killing sent. So let him do it. All you need to decide is if Palmar is townie enough. But if we decide Palmar is townie enough to be mayor then he is free to kill whoever he likes. He sticks with sentinel and sentinel flips scum? We win, yay! Sheep Palmar into Armageddon. Sentinel flips town? We figure out if Palmars policy lynch is an ideological thing or a scum thing. Either way, we get information about Palmar out of this, which is a great thing to get out of D1.
On March 03 2019 17:11 Acrofales wrote: Oh, also, if sent was actually playing and being townie, I'd be more inclined to want him to live. But he has used this "foil" to be an attention whore and cop out of doing anything else so far. Not town play.
@Palmar, let's assume Acro is the leading lynch candidate but your vote could choose somebody else to lynch. Who would you lynch instead of Acro, that isn't Sent?
Palmar's entire post history seems to be super focused on this policy lynch of Sent -- that's it. Town Reads HF, Town Reads Acro. He's not wanting to scum hunt on day 1, but go all in on a policy lynch. I don't think I mind having a strong conviction about the policy lynch, but I think I do mind only green reading other people and only pushing your one policy lynch.
I think Palmar is scum.
I like Rayn's read on Palmar, ironically, cause I think they're both scum.
Palmar not playing on a weekend is Palmar-y. Palmar playing is Palmar-y. This half and half stuff I wouldn't trust with a 10-foot pole and I hate how much support he's gotten. I also hate that some of that is probably from shit town who just see the shiny name and go oh, Palmar, he's a god, let's check our brains at the door.
-cocks head at- So you've decided to play rather than whine about people saying a person who was only posting images was a good vig target?
So this post just makes me want to facepalm. Why? Because she basically just said because its Palmar hes mafia. Because he has any support hes mafia. More important she is bothered by the name he has and blames shit town for trying to vote him into the slot of mayor. Now we know that Palmar flipped town. So those people that voted for him clearly arent as shit as this read of hers is. Next thing with this is she doesn't decide to hard push her own reads instead she SHEEPS unto the BH bandwagon. The thing that gets me about this is this. SHE SAYS SHE THINKS HE IS TOWN AND STILL WANTS TO LYNCH HIM.
Why the fuck do you ever want to kill a town read? Like seriously. Why would you lynch someone you believe to be town. She has scumreads for fucks sake. Was active enough to push them. Instead lets push a town read for information because the potential information is better than offing a scum. Jesus fuck.
On March 06 2019 04:01 rsoultin wrote: Also, for the record, though I'm mocking the auto-lynch mindset perpetuated by people who can't think for themselves, a BH flip is still best for everyone and 100% should be facilitated before day phase so the idiots can have a chance to check their idiocy. Not that I'm holding my breath.
You want to lynch someone you think is town...,.......................... .
Yes that's what this post clearly meant good job proving why it's pointless for me to explain reads with this level of reading comprehension floating around the thread.
I just see things so scummy sometimes that I stare at my phone in disbelief.
You suggesting to lynch someone that is town to help clear the air is either scum motivated at best and at worst idiotic.
l2r
That post imo also sheds potential like on Iamp being killed. To my reading he was the only one to call her out for it..
This is mainly from a filter dive. Everything in it screams of someone coming in and skirting activity while posting nothing of substance. Hell he never comes into the thread and express a real reason or read to his vote on Trfel. Just sheeped onto it like nothing ever happened. Hell the only real time Tumblewood even expressed a read on Trfel it was a town read. So he sheeped a wagon to off a person he believed was town. Again, no fucking reason to do this ever. Clearly red.
Whatever the particulars of the bad Palmar scumread, I still think this is easily the most compelling reason for the HF scum case:
On March 06 2019 09:38 Blazinghand wrote: HF why did you claim a shot on me?
Here's a theory as to why HF did this. It is because he is scum.
In the Scum QT: Holyflare: Hey guys, the deadline is coming up. We know a vigi is going to shoot Blazinghand, and then probably claim after the daypost. Other Scums: yeah, sounds accurate to me. Holyflare: then Blazinghand will flip town, and i'm going to look real bad. Other Scums: oh no! Holyflare: ok, but here's the plan. I'm going to, right before the end of the night, with second on the clock, claim that I'm the vigi and am shooting BH. Other Scums: why would you do this HF? we're not shooting BH... Holflare: see, a vigi is going to shoot Blazinghand, and I will get autolynched D2 unless I can pose as the vigi who shot him. This will allow me to get in one more mislynch, as people will trust me. If the real vigi counterclaims, that's still a better situation than if I never claimed in the first place and just let myself get autolynched. Other Scums: good idea
Then, for some reason, I didn't get shot, and now HF has to just pretend he never claimed he was shooting me
HF has largely abandoned his provably false ideas of "well, I couldn't change the mayor lynch" given the way the mayor lynch is received mechanically and the fact he was in thread and watched and commented on the shenannnies as they went down. Just for killing Palmar is he scum? eh, maybe not. But for lying about it, then slithering away from the lie when called out? oh yeah baby
I will quite literally quote my mod PM post game to prove it. Please stop posting this trash. I stand by my statement that it was locked in before I could say anything.
You keep bringing this up as if it means something to us. There's gonna be some host wifom here, but not a lot:
1. I know Kita and dandel and don't think they're dicks. If you PM'd them after the vote shenanigans and said you wanted to kill BH, I'll believe they'd allow it. So based on that I believe the PM was never sent. And the PM you will show us post-game is your role PM saying you win with scum.
2. If this were true, and Kita didn't let you change the target, why'd we have to drag it out of you? It would literally be the first thing out of mouth post-flip: "shit, tried to change it, but wasn't allowed to". It would even have made sense with your "I didn't kill Palmar" post. But you didn't say anything. You didn't even say anything when called out on your troll post. This "I tried to change it but couldn't" narrative only came wayyyyy later. In fact, your whole behavior around the flip is what makes me quite sure you're scum: first the troll post makes it clear you aren't worried about your decision. Then the flip and the feels there are that you are gloating. Not shocked at how wrong you were and killed a fellow town leader.
On March 05 2019 09:38 Holyflare wrote: You guys knew what you were voting for :D
Go die, scum.
No, they're not dicks. I PMd them to lynch Palmar on the flight home. When the flip happened kita PMd me saying palmar is now the lynch. I probably could have PMd saying that I'd rather switch to BH and probably should have but:
A) i thought the flip was literally going to happen straight away
B) I was too tired to even care
C) I wanted to lynch palmar anyway
You don't have to care about these series of events but if what it takes is cheating to make people actually play the game and talk about scum reads that aren't me I'm not above doing it. There's no banlist and it's the last game ever.
Maybe then you'd actually have to produce some content that isn't rhetoric about lynching me.
Also, he claimed vigilante at the end of the night. Your comments on that, please.
On March 04 2019 23:30 Palmar wrote: go after mocsta -> threatens to kill himself go after conversion -> leaves the game
I may have a problem.
You’re not the problem. Neither is HF.
? If Palmar wasn't a problem then why was your vote to have him killed at this point?
I actually dived into your filter to find where you strong townread HF... and I don't see it at all. You made up your mind HF was town at the start of the game based on... nothing? And your comment after nightfall was about me, not about HF at all. In fact, it's the post that is continuously quoted here that has the whole ramble about how wonderful it would have been if HF had killed scum!Palmar.
Why are you townreading HF?
It started with agreement on a semi long stream of posts. And other small things that he did that I doubt mafia HF would bother with.
While I certainly will semi ignore someone I town from time to time, HF’s townread can disappear quite fast. I’m always watching what he does.
I’ve been called contrarian many times. But I truly believe that him sticking to what he said he’d do (shoot Palmar) is far more likely to come from town HF. I do think MafiaHF would have never pushed Palmar and instead gone after one of the other prominent towns and killed them instead. Rayn he could have killed at the time as most were lukewarm on him at the time. Or whoever.
Lol if he killed rayn he 100% dies today
Not if rayn is scum. But that'd be an amazing bus.
On March 08 2019 04:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: oh btw from now on i am gonna be a little bitch and report all "offences" to hosts because they can be hurstful to a soul of some person..... so no swearing, no anything else. inbetween tl rules you idiots. i am done with me getting all the shit for nothing.
On March 07 2019 22:32 Jockmcplop wrote: I'm leaning heavily towards a scum read on BH right now. The more he posts the more scummy his motivations seem to be. His attacks on hf look as if he has made them up on the spot in an effort to try and paint hf as mafia, rather than coming to natural conclusions about hf from available evidence.
The best example of this is the following post:
On March 06 2019 09:38 Blazinghand wrote: HF why did you claim a shot on me?
Here's a theory as to why HF did this. It is because he is scum.
In the Scum QT: Holyflare: Hey guys, the deadline is coming up. We know a vigi is going to shoot Blazinghand, and then probably claim after the daypost. Other Scums: yeah, sounds accurate to me. Holyflare: then Blazinghand will flip town, and i'm going to look real bad. Other Scums: oh no! Holyflare: ok, but here's the plan. I'm going to, right before the end of the night, with second on the clock, claim that I'm the vigi and am shooting BH. Other Scums: why would you do this HF? we're not shooting BH... Holflare: see, a vigi is going to shoot Blazinghand, and I will get autolynched D2 unless I can pose as the vigi who shot him. This will allow me to get in one more mislynch, as people will trust me. If the real vigi counterclaims, that's still a better situation than if I never claimed in the first place and just let myself get autolynched. Other Scums: good idea
Then, for some reason, I didn't get shot, and now HF has to just pretend he never claimed he was shooting me
This is pure speculation and I like how creative it is, but it is not evidence.
He then refers back to this as 'compelling' a few posts later, but as we can see it isn't compelling its a rather badly shoehorned piece of fiction, designed to create an mirage.
On March 06 2019 18:31 Blazinghand wrote:
Whatever the particulars of the bad Palmar scumread, I still think this is easily the most compelling reason for the HF scum case:
On March 06 2019 09:38 Blazinghand wrote: HF why did you claim a shot on me?
Here's a theory as to why HF did this. It is because he is scum.
In the Scum QT: Holyflare: Hey guys, the deadline is coming up. We know a vigi is going to shoot Blazinghand, and then probably claim after the daypost. Other Scums: yeah, sounds accurate to me. Holyflare: then Blazinghand will flip town, and i'm going to look real bad. Other Scums: oh no! Holyflare: ok, but here's the plan. I'm going to, right before the end of the night, with second on the clock, claim that I'm the vigi and am shooting BH. Other Scums: why would you do this HF? we're not shooting BH... Holflare: see, a vigi is going to shoot Blazinghand, and I will get autolynched D2 unless I can pose as the vigi who shot him. This will allow me to get in one more mislynch, as people will trust me. If the real vigi counterclaims, that's still a better situation than if I never claimed in the first place and just let myself get autolynched. Other Scums: good idea
Then, for some reason, I didn't get shot, and now HF has to just pretend he never claimed he was shooting me
HF has largely abandoned his provably false ideas of "well, I couldn't change the mayor lynch" given the way the mayor lynch is received mechanically and the fact he was in thread and watched and commented on the shenannnies as they went down. Just for killing Palmar is he scum? eh, maybe not. But for lying about it, then slithering away from the lie when called out? oh yeah baby
Ok, so what is the point of town!HF to claim a fake vig shot? I didn't incorporate it in my case, because it's mostly wifom, but I really don't see it:
1. He made a big play and it backfired spectacularly. 2. He makes another big play just for shit and giggles? WTF?
Now, lets say BH had gotten vig'd. We'd have a townie counterclaiming the vig shot, and today would have been an even bigger shitshow. Lynch all liars is a damned good policy for a reason, because even if townies *do* do this kind of stupid shit, it is blatantly anti-town play. And the *second* time HF does a big anti-town play in the same damn game.
That's true, but doesn't say anything about the point I am making. This story BH is telling is meaningless, as if he needed something completely made up to emphasize his argument for some reason. Also, if we are lynching people for anti-town play, what about the whole of D1/N1 from BH? Blatant anti-town play that has no upside or no possible upside for town.
You say BH is scummy for making up a narrative. While the narrative is of course pure speculation, it's just a funny way of presenting the problem here:
FACT: HF claimed vigilante FACT: HF is not a vigilante CONCLUSION: HF fakeclaimed vigilante.
So there are two options: HF is town and fakeclaimed vigilante, or HF is scum and fakeclaimed vigilante.
You seem to lean towards it being town!HF fakeclaiming vigilante, because in his own words, he was adding "suspense" around the daypost. I mean.. sure, he has shown so far that HF only really cares about HF, so he might just have done it for the shit of it, but you ignored the whole conundrum of my post earlier. How do you explain town!HF not even thinking that there was a real vig that would really shoot BH?
On March 08 2019 01:17 rsoultin wrote: Actually, if we're looking for people over-justifying votes I'd say Jock qualifies. Caveat is I think he was planning on looking into BH earlier.
I've said that since I voted for trfel on the first night. I wanted to see more from BH to see what he's all about. I have done, but I still don't know who to vote for tonight so I'm keeping an eye out.
Ace is still a good candidate... turning up with his one word replies pointing out other people's mistakes while keeping his mouth pretty much shut about everything.
I agree. I just don't see him ever being lynched over HF, BH or alternatively a low-posting lurker like ExO_ if people decided they don't want to lynch the former two.
And honestly I'm not really too interested in lynching someone I don't strongly feel is scum? Cause I think BH has a slightly larger chance of flipping town than scum but I wouldn't wager a so much as a quarter on it lol ><
I'd like to lynch Rels but people think his role makes him town and arguing till I'm blue in the face that he's not talking to me when he masoned me which he seemed eager to do is probably not going to get me anywhere. In part because people aren't experiencing what I am and in part because it's kind of tonal anyway. Excite -> not solving game with me.
Also I'd feel a bit like a dick if he's a townie with no time and was just being nice so maybe I should have let it slide and see what he did later >< thing is I'm not sure how long this thing lasts and I don't expect to survive N2 anyway.
So anyway, meanwhile you have your vote parked on someone you can't even make a coherent argument for that he's scum?
On March 08 2019 04:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: oh btw from now on i am gonna be a little bitch and report all "offences" to hosts because they can be hurstful to a soul of some person..... so no swearing, no anything else. inbetween tl rules you idiots. i am done with me getting all the shit for nothing.
On March 07 2019 22:32 Jockmcplop wrote: I'm leaning heavily towards a scum read on BH right now. The more he posts the more scummy his motivations seem to be. His attacks on hf look as if he has made them up on the spot in an effort to try and paint hf as mafia, rather than coming to natural conclusions about hf from available evidence.
The best example of this is the following post:
On March 06 2019 09:38 Blazinghand wrote: HF why did you claim a shot on me?
Here's a theory as to why HF did this. It is because he is scum.
In the Scum QT: Holyflare: Hey guys, the deadline is coming up. We know a vigi is going to shoot Blazinghand, and then probably claim after the daypost. Other Scums: yeah, sounds accurate to me. Holyflare: then Blazinghand will flip town, and i'm going to look real bad. Other Scums: oh no! Holyflare: ok, but here's the plan. I'm going to, right before the end of the night, with second on the clock, claim that I'm the vigi and am shooting BH. Other Scums: why would you do this HF? we're not shooting BH... Holflare: see, a vigi is going to shoot Blazinghand, and I will get autolynched D2 unless I can pose as the vigi who shot him. This will allow me to get in one more mislynch, as people will trust me. If the real vigi counterclaims, that's still a better situation than if I never claimed in the first place and just let myself get autolynched. Other Scums: good idea
Then, for some reason, I didn't get shot, and now HF has to just pretend he never claimed he was shooting me
This is pure speculation and I like how creative it is, but it is not evidence.
He then refers back to this as 'compelling' a few posts later, but as we can see it isn't compelling its a rather badly shoehorned piece of fiction, designed to create an mirage.
On March 06 2019 18:31 Blazinghand wrote:
Whatever the particulars of the bad Palmar scumread, I still think this is easily the most compelling reason for the HF scum case:
On March 06 2019 09:38 Blazinghand wrote: HF why did you claim a shot on me?
Here's a theory as to why HF did this. It is because he is scum.
In the Scum QT: Holyflare: Hey guys, the deadline is coming up. We know a vigi is going to shoot Blazinghand, and then probably claim after the daypost. Other Scums: yeah, sounds accurate to me. Holyflare: then Blazinghand will flip town, and i'm going to look real bad. Other Scums: oh no! Holyflare: ok, but here's the plan. I'm going to, right before the end of the night, with second on the clock, claim that I'm the vigi and am shooting BH. Other Scums: why would you do this HF? we're not shooting BH... Holflare: see, a vigi is going to shoot Blazinghand, and I will get autolynched D2 unless I can pose as the vigi who shot him. This will allow me to get in one more mislynch, as people will trust me. If the real vigi counterclaims, that's still a better situation than if I never claimed in the first place and just let myself get autolynched. Other Scums: good idea
Then, for some reason, I didn't get shot, and now HF has to just pretend he never claimed he was shooting me
HF has largely abandoned his provably false ideas of "well, I couldn't change the mayor lynch" given the way the mayor lynch is received mechanically and the fact he was in thread and watched and commented on the shenannnies as they went down. Just for killing Palmar is he scum? eh, maybe not. But for lying about it, then slithering away from the lie when called out? oh yeah baby
Ok, so what is the point of town!HF to claim a fake vig shot? I didn't incorporate it in my case, because it's mostly wifom, but I really don't see it:
1. He made a big play and it backfired spectacularly. 2. He makes another big play just for shit and giggles? WTF?
Now, lets say BH had gotten vig'd. We'd have a townie counterclaiming the vig shot, and today would have been an even bigger shitshow. Lynch all liars is a damned good policy for a reason, because even if townies *do* do this kind of stupid shit, it is blatantly anti-town play. And the *second* time HF does a big anti-town play in the same damn game.
That's true, but doesn't say anything about the point I am making. This story BH is telling is meaningless, as if he needed something completely made up to emphasize his argument for some reason. Also, if we are lynching people for anti-town play, what about the whole of D1/N1 from BH? Blatant anti-town play that has no upside or no possible upside for town.
You say BH is scummy for making up a narrative. While the narrative is of course pure speculation, it's just a funny way of presenting the problem here:
FACT: HF claimed vigilante FACT: HF is not a vigilante CONCLUSION: HF fakeclaimed vigilante.
So there are two options: HF is town and fakeclaimed vigilante, or HF is scum and fakeclaimed vigilante.
You seem to lean towards it being town!HF fakeclaiming vigilante, because in his own words, he was adding "suspense" around the daypost. I mean.. sure, he has shown so far that HF only really cares about HF, so he might just have done it for the shit of it, but you ignored the whole conundrum of my post earlier. How do you explain town!HF not even thinking that there was a real vig that would really shoot BH?
I mean... who cares if there was a real vig? I could just rescind my claim or get killed which, again, would make my position a 1 for 1 trade if I survived somehow (which I wouldn't in this case) which I would never like.
You've mentioned a few times that you've provided evidence that you do this kind of last second fakeclaim as town and have done so before - can you link to a game or state the name of a game in which you did this?
He does it in half the games he plays tbh.
Link please. I guess if he shits on town every game he plays in, and you're all okay with that, there isn't much we can do. But then fine, everybody, I'm done with this game. Just sheep Holyflare to wherever he leads you (my prediction: easy scum victory).
On March 08 2019 01:17 rsoultin wrote: Actually, if we're looking for people over-justifying votes I'd say Jock qualifies. Caveat is I think he was planning on looking into BH earlier.
I've said that since I voted for trfel on the first night. I wanted to see more from BH to see what he's all about. I have done, but I still don't know who to vote for tonight so I'm keeping an eye out.
Ace is still a good candidate... turning up with his one word replies pointing out other people's mistakes while keeping his mouth pretty much shut about everything.
I agree. I just don't see him ever being lynched over HF, BH or alternatively a low-posting lurker like ExO_ if people decided they don't want to lynch the former two.
And honestly I'm not really too interested in lynching someone I don't strongly feel is scum? Cause I think BH has a slightly larger chance of flipping town than scum but I wouldn't wager a so much as a quarter on it lol ><
I'd like to lynch Rels but people think his role makes him town and arguing till I'm blue in the face that he's not talking to me when he masoned me which he seemed eager to do is probably not going to get me anywhere. In part because people aren't experiencing what I am and in part because it's kind of tonal anyway. Excite -> not solving game with me.
Also I'd feel a bit like a dick if he's a townie with no time and was just being nice so maybe I should have let it slide and see what he did later >< thing is I'm not sure how long this thing lasts and I don't expect to survive N2 anyway.
So anyway, meanwhile you have your vote parked on someone you can't even make a coherent argument for that he's scum?
On March 08 2019 04:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: oh btw from now on i am gonna be a little bitch and report all "offences" to hosts because they can be hurstful to a soul of some person..... so no swearing, no anything else. inbetween tl rules you idiots. i am done with me getting all the shit for nothing.
On March 07 2019 22:32 Jockmcplop wrote: I'm leaning heavily towards a scum read on BH right now. The more he posts the more scummy his motivations seem to be. His attacks on hf look as if he has made them up on the spot in an effort to try and paint hf as mafia, rather than coming to natural conclusions about hf from available evidence.
The best example of this is the following post:
On March 06 2019 09:38 Blazinghand wrote: HF why did you claim a shot on me?
Here's a theory as to why HF did this. It is because he is scum.
In the Scum QT: Holyflare: Hey guys, the deadline is coming up. We know a vigi is going to shoot Blazinghand, and then probably claim after the daypost. Other Scums: yeah, sounds accurate to me. Holyflare: then Blazinghand will flip town, and i'm going to look real bad. Other Scums: oh no! Holyflare: ok, but here's the plan. I'm going to, right before the end of the night, with second on the clock, claim that I'm the vigi and am shooting BH. Other Scums: why would you do this HF? we're not shooting BH... Holflare: see, a vigi is going to shoot Blazinghand, and I will get autolynched D2 unless I can pose as the vigi who shot him. This will allow me to get in one more mislynch, as people will trust me. If the real vigi counterclaims, that's still a better situation than if I never claimed in the first place and just let myself get autolynched. Other Scums: good idea
Then, for some reason, I didn't get shot, and now HF has to just pretend he never claimed he was shooting me
This is pure speculation and I like how creative it is, but it is not evidence.
He then refers back to this as 'compelling' a few posts later, but as we can see it isn't compelling its a rather badly shoehorned piece of fiction, designed to create an mirage.
On March 06 2019 18:31 Blazinghand wrote:
Whatever the particulars of the bad Palmar scumread, I still think this is easily the most compelling reason for the HF scum case:
On March 06 2019 09:38 Blazinghand wrote: HF why did you claim a shot on me?
Here's a theory as to why HF did this. It is because he is scum.
In the Scum QT: Holyflare: Hey guys, the deadline is coming up. We know a vigi is going to shoot Blazinghand, and then probably claim after the daypost. Other Scums: yeah, sounds accurate to me. Holyflare: then Blazinghand will flip town, and i'm going to look real bad. Other Scums: oh no! Holyflare: ok, but here's the plan. I'm going to, right before the end of the night, with second on the clock, claim that I'm the vigi and am shooting BH. Other Scums: why would you do this HF? we're not shooting BH... Holflare: see, a vigi is going to shoot Blazinghand, and I will get autolynched D2 unless I can pose as the vigi who shot him. This will allow me to get in one more mislynch, as people will trust me. If the real vigi counterclaims, that's still a better situation than if I never claimed in the first place and just let myself get autolynched. Other Scums: good idea
Then, for some reason, I didn't get shot, and now HF has to just pretend he never claimed he was shooting me
HF has largely abandoned his provably false ideas of "well, I couldn't change the mayor lynch" given the way the mayor lynch is received mechanically and the fact he was in thread and watched and commented on the shenannnies as they went down. Just for killing Palmar is he scum? eh, maybe not. But for lying about it, then slithering away from the lie when called out? oh yeah baby
Ok, so what is the point of town!HF to claim a fake vig shot? I didn't incorporate it in my case, because it's mostly wifom, but I really don't see it:
1. He made a big play and it backfired spectacularly. 2. He makes another big play just for shit and giggles? WTF?
Now, lets say BH had gotten vig'd. We'd have a townie counterclaiming the vig shot, and today would have been an even bigger shitshow. Lynch all liars is a damned good policy for a reason, because even if townies *do* do this kind of stupid shit, it is blatantly anti-town play. And the *second* time HF does a big anti-town play in the same damn game.
That's true, but doesn't say anything about the point I am making. This story BH is telling is meaningless, as if he needed something completely made up to emphasize his argument for some reason. Also, if we are lynching people for anti-town play, what about the whole of D1/N1 from BH? Blatant anti-town play that has no upside or no possible upside for town.
You say BH is scummy for making up a narrative. While the narrative is of course pure speculation, it's just a funny way of presenting the problem here:
FACT: HF claimed vigilante FACT: HF is not a vigilante CONCLUSION: HF fakeclaimed vigilante.
So there are two options: HF is town and fakeclaimed vigilante, or HF is scum and fakeclaimed vigilante.
You seem to lean towards it being town!HF fakeclaiming vigilante, because in his own words, he was adding "suspense" around the daypost. I mean.. sure, he has shown so far that HF only really cares about HF, so he might just have done it for the shit of it, but you ignored the whole conundrum of my post earlier. How do you explain town!HF not even thinking that there was a real vig that would really shoot BH?
I mean... who cares if there was a real vig? I could just rescind my claim or get killed which, again, would make my position a 1 for 1 trade if I survived somehow (which I wouldn't in this case) which I would never like.
You've mentioned a few times that you've provided evidence that you do this kind of last second fakeclaim as town and have done so before - can you link to a game or state the name of a game in which you did this?
This is just in like my last few games iirc and one of those I didn't claim because someone else beat claiming a role first. I've claimed cops with a red check, I've claimed vig shots, I've counter claimed blues, I do whatever I please my friend.
There was even a game where I red checked glowingbear and I wasn't a cop and he flipped town because I was sure he was mafia. SL was in that game and said the same things "+ev to lynch hf bla bla". Same shit, different game.
While I hate town fakeclaims in general, I understand fakeclaiming cop. That actually serves a purpose.
Not voting (4): Damdred, Chezinu, ExO_, darthfoley
Blazinghand is currently set to be lynched.
Please let us know if you notice any mistakes. The deadline is Friday, Mar 08 12:00am GMT (GMT+00:00), which is in .
Any town people who aren’t on either BH or Holyflare are actively playing against their wincon btw?
Not to say anything that would discourage people from voting HF (and thus saving me, who I know to be town) - but presumably some people strongly TR both me and HF. I'm sure there's scum in the 10 people not on either wagon, of course, but I could see someone having a reasonable reason here. I've certainly felt doubts about this HF wagon, and if I start townreading HF I'm going to move my vote off him. It really gets my goat if these poeple voting side votes aren't around at the end of the day though. Even if you TR both of us, presumably there's one you think is more town than the other...
You don’t understand. Either you or holyflare is getting lynched today at this point, there’s nothing else strong enough. everyone town needs to lynch who they think is the least town or most mafia between the two of you. Lynches are the town’s power but if there is a significant amount of people off wagon then it becomes the mafia power because they have the numbers to manipulate it their favor.
@Acro
See, Oats gets it xD
Though tbf if I strongly felt someone was scum I'd push it. Rels being so pissed off at me (I do not accept this is always a town role as an argument when it's demonstrably not) makes me less inclined to push that.
Nah, this just means mafia will pile onto one of the wagons instead of hiding elsewhere as we just defined a rule: if you're off-wagon, you're scum. So scum hides by being on the wagon. If they're both scum, they bus (as there literally isn't another option). If one is town and the other scum, they try to avoid bussing. And if both are town they just lurk and comply.
There is no point in forcing consolidation in a plurality lynch.
Not voting (4): Damdred, Chezinu, ExO_, darthfoley
Blazinghand is currently set to be lynched.
Please let us know if you notice any mistakes. The deadline is Friday, Mar 08 12:00am GMT (GMT+00:00), which is in .
Any town people who aren’t on either BH or Holyflare are actively playing against their wincon btw?
Not to say anything that would discourage people from voting HF (and thus saving me, who I know to be town) - but presumably some people strongly TR both me and HF. I'm sure there's scum in the 10 people not on either wagon, of course, but I could see someone having a reasonable reason here. I've certainly felt doubts about this HF wagon, and if I start townreading HF I'm going to move my vote off him. It really gets my goat if these poeple voting side votes aren't around at the end of the day though. Even if you TR both of us, presumably there's one you think is more town than the other...
You don’t understand. Either you or holyflare is getting lynched today at this point, there’s nothing else strong enough. everyone town needs to lynch who they think is the least town or most mafia between the two of you. Lynches are the town’s power but if there is a significant amount of people off wagon then it becomes the mafia power because they have the numbers to manipulate it their favor.
@Acro
See, Oats gets it xD
Though tbf if I strongly felt someone was scum I'd push it. Rels being so pissed off at me (I do not accept this is always a town role as an argument when it's demonstrably not) makes me less inclined to push that.
When have you seen it as a mafia role?
Oh god big...themedish game. Was in one with scum, yup. People like masoning me. I think LS mentioned the name. My chipmunk brain is useless. I think marv was scum in it with palmar?
Btw specifically a mafia mason that can add anyone in the game on successive nights
On March 05 2019 08:51 Palmar wrote: Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia
your wifom mind bomb wont work im going to ignore it.
Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia
I still want to kill HF, but it's just not happening.
On March 08 2019 04:57 LightningStrike wrote: Tina I sorry I was thinking your scum this game but I think you're town now. What stuff you looking into atm?
Honestly? I just caught up with the thread after a nice dinner of pancakes and chat with our new house guest, and I'm turning into a pumpkin in an hour when the hubby kidnaps me for the rest of the night.
So unless people send me down an avenue to poke where I come back with a solid scumread on someone, my vote stays on Blazinghand.
Though that does remind me that I wanted to read Sent and look at Grack's case so that's what I'm doing now.
On March 08 2019 04:40 Oatsmaster wrote: [quote] Any town people who aren’t on either BH or Holyflare are actively playing against their wincon btw?
Not to say anything that would discourage people from voting HF (and thus saving me, who I know to be town) - but presumably some people strongly TR both me and HF. I'm sure there's scum in the 10 people not on either wagon, of course, but I could see someone having a reasonable reason here. I've certainly felt doubts about this HF wagon, and if I start townreading HF I'm going to move my vote off him. It really gets my goat if these poeple voting side votes aren't around at the end of the day though. Even if you TR both of us, presumably there's one you think is more town than the other...
You don’t understand. Either you or holyflare is getting lynched today at this point, there’s nothing else strong enough. everyone town needs to lynch who they think is the least town or most mafia between the two of you. Lynches are the town’s power but if there is a significant amount of people off wagon then it becomes the mafia power because they have the numbers to manipulate it their favor.
@Acro
See, Oats gets it xD
Though tbf if I strongly felt someone was scum I'd push it. Rels being so pissed off at me (I do not accept this is always a town role as an argument when it's demonstrably not) makes me less inclined to push that.
When have you seen it as a mafia role?
Oh god big...themedish game. Was in one with scum, yup. People like masoning me. I think LS mentioned the name. My chipmunk brain is useless. I think marv was scum in it with palmar?
Btw specifically a mafia mason that can add anyone in the game on successive nights
Nope. Not something I knew when I posted about it here, but I'm not sure why that's relevant? I also haven't seen a town role that does that.
Because you said demonstrably so I wanted you to demonstrate.
On March 04 2019 03:43 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: I think if you lean red on everyone it's only slightly better than leaning green on everyone. I'd almost call it a scum play Oats does put pressure on HF. I'd still lean Oats because even with that pressure he doesn't commit to any sort of scum team besides "half the thread", at least in any meaningful way to advance the game.
On March 05 2019 01:17 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Oats hasn't changed much beyond the dart throwing. I still don't see how that makes him scum.
On March 06 2019 09:53 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: There's actually two parts missing. "I'd almost call it a scum play [but] Oats does put pressure on HF. I'd still lean [red on] Oats because even with..."
That being said, it's the slightest of scum leans and I never grouped him in my lynch targets like Trfel, LS, etc.
meh. Maybe. It's kinda weak
Honestly I've been mostly going just off Palmar/Marv's take on Sentinel for my read so far but I'm wading into his filter now and it's really not pretty.
Read here:
On March 03 2019 00:07 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Stale takes by this point but I have town reads on TT and myself and I'm behind vigging Exo
@rsoultin I'm pretty sure Chez shitposts in every thread regardless of alignment. What makes him scum in this particular case?
His read on TT is In line with thread sentiment as he said in the post. Later in his big reads post he drops a scum read on TT based off the same early game posts that he already read when he called TT town the first time. (note the timestamps.)
On March 02 2019 10:27 Damdred wrote: LS is town, that is all.
More when I get home and find a town circle to kill from within.
Ehh, I can't make up my mind what I want to say about this, I agree with him (which typically gives me townfeels for Damdred) but this feels like an easy, "free" read and post from Damdred. For some reason was noteworty to me... idk.
Great detective work! I would love to have you on my team as lead investigator! I will be sure that the corporate office hear of this amazing discovery!
Best, Chezinu Isunizehc
Why does this game irrelevant post get praise from you Chez?
On March 02 2019 10:33 LightningStrike wrote: Me and Damdred aren't masons even though I wish we were masons
Honest to a fault... Totes town.
Willing to give solid townleans on Trefl and LS, and a minor townlean on Damdred thus far. I've also got a bit of a gutread on FF at this point, but I'm not sharing it yet.
What's interesting here is that the foundation of all of this is LS's first three posts. I don't know which three posts qualify but up to the "me and Damdred aren't masons" LS has posted nothing of substance, town or not.
Damdy is town because he agrees with LS. He's masons with LS and LS is town so they can't be scum together. Oops LS isn't a mason but LS is town and Damdy is still town because he said LS is town.
LS can be a hard player to read, but all these posts are honest sadness that people are starting to play for real and not just joke around and shoot the breeze as many recent games have started.
Not saying I have some kinda God-Read on him or anything, but that is how I try to and what I get from those posts.
So all of his town reads by association come from a belief that LS is honest. And that belief is predicated on the fact that LS was joking around.
HF seems to be posting to post and I don't like it, but it's not really a scum read right now. It's just him coasting.
Speaking of my Watch List, I think it's something like this right now: ... HF (just not comfortable with him just floating around the game making no impact, yet being relatively present)
On March 03 2019 13:47 Tictock wrote: Ok, I came, I saw, I did some things. Seems like ppl are not around so gunna do other things. May check in once more before bed but I am pretty sure I am not going to fully read the stuff I missed.
I'd like someone who is wanting to lynch oats to convince me why he is scum.
Similarly as to why ppl are voting HF for mayor.
If deadline was right now/soon I would push for Meap or Grack to lynch.
I don't like this post because he started with a gutread on her and acted off that information throughout the game, leading to the conclusion: rsoultin is town. It cheapens the value of all the evidence he posts afterward to support the fact rsoultin is town.
Leaning red
If Sent's mafia, this probably isn't why. There's over 24hrs between the two posts.
I wanted to just lynch him, but I looked through his filter and need to ask some questions first. Good way to avoid getting lynched: just not be there :/
Seems to be working great for lots of people this game
On March 08 2019 05:35 ExO_ wrote: I’m at work, I’ve been busy this week and will stay busy until the weekend as my boss is in town until tomorrow. Looks like HF and BH, and between the 2 Id rather lynch BH. Will hang around for 10 mins or so
It's relatively short (a lot shorter than BH). Find me one post that isn't just flying-under-the-radar mehhhhhhh. There's also a few times when he says he'll reevaluate stuff, and never does if you put stock in that kinda stuff (imho, scum making promises and then following up is very easy to do... but other people catch scum that way, so /shrug).
There's definitely more posting than someone like onegu, but nothing that actually does anything or goes anywhere.
On March 04 2019 03:43 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: I think if you lean red on everyone it's only slightly better than leaning green on everyone. I'd almost call it a scum play Oats does put pressure on HF. I'd still lean Oats because even with that pressure he doesn't commit to any sort of scum team besides "half the thread", at least in any meaningful way to advance the game.
On March 05 2019 01:17 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Oats hasn't changed much beyond the dart throwing. I still don't see how that makes him scum.
On March 06 2019 09:53 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: There's actually two parts missing. "I'd almost call it a scum play [but] Oats does put pressure on HF. I'd still lean [red on] Oats because even with..."
That being said, it's the slightest of scum leans and I never grouped him in my lynch targets like Trfel, LS, etc.
meh. Maybe. It's kinda weak
Honestly I've been mostly going just off Palmar/Marv's take on Sentinel for my read so far but I'm wading into his filter now and it's really not pretty.
Read here:
On March 03 2019 00:07 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Stale takes by this point but I have town reads on TT and myself and I'm behind vigging Exo
@rsoultin I'm pretty sure Chez shitposts in every thread regardless of alignment. What makes him scum in this particular case?
His read on TT is In line with thread sentiment as he said in the post. Later in his big reads post he drops a scum read on TT based off the same early game posts that he already read when he called TT town the first time. (note the timestamps.)
On March 02 2019 10:27 Damdred wrote: LS is town, that is all.
More when I get home and find a town circle to kill from within.
Ehh, I can't make up my mind what I want to say about this, I agree with him (which typically gives me townfeels for Damdred) but this feels like an easy, "free" read and post from Damdred. For some reason was noteworty to me... idk.
Great detective work! I would love to have you on my team as lead investigator! I will be sure that the corporate office hear of this amazing discovery!
Best, Chezinu Isunizehc
Why does this game irrelevant post get praise from you Chez?
On March 02 2019 10:33 LightningStrike wrote: Me and Damdred aren't masons even though I wish we were masons
Honest to a fault... Totes town.
Willing to give solid townleans on Trefl and LS, and a minor townlean on Damdred thus far. I've also got a bit of a gutread on FF at this point, but I'm not sharing it yet.
What's interesting here is that the foundation of all of this is LS's first three posts. I don't know which three posts qualify but up to the "me and Damdred aren't masons" LS has posted nothing of substance, town or not.
Damdy is town because he agrees with LS. He's masons with LS and LS is town so they can't be scum together. Oops LS isn't a mason but LS is town and Damdy is still town because he said LS is town.
LS can be a hard player to read, but all these posts are honest sadness that people are starting to play for real and not just joke around and shoot the breeze as many recent games have started.
Not saying I have some kinda God-Read on him or anything, but that is how I try to and what I get from those posts.
So all of his town reads by association come from a belief that LS is honest. And that belief is predicated on the fact that LS was joking around.
HF seems to be posting to post and I don't like it, but it's not really a scum read right now. It's just him coasting.
Speaking of my Watch List, I think it's something like this right now: ... HF (just not comfortable with him just floating around the game making no impact, yet being relatively present)
On March 03 2019 13:47 Tictock wrote: Ok, I came, I saw, I did some things. Seems like ppl are not around so gunna do other things. May check in once more before bed but I am pretty sure I am not going to fully read the stuff I missed.
I'd like someone who is wanting to lynch oats to convince me why he is scum.
Similarly as to why ppl are voting HF for mayor.
If deadline was right now/soon I would push for Meap or Grack to lynch.
I don't like this post because he started with a gutread on her and acted off that information throughout the game, leading to the conclusion: rsoultin is town. It cheapens the value of all the evidence he posts afterward to support the fact rsoultin is town.
Leaning red
If Sent's mafia, this probably isn't why. There's over 24hrs between the two posts.
I wanted to just lynch him, but I looked through his filter and need to ask some questions first. Good way to avoid getting lynched: just not be there :/
Seems to be working great for lots of people this game
On March 08 2019 05:54 sicklucker wrote: Well if we dont kill hf now hes never dying. So ill just have to asume hes town if thats happening and pray mafia nk him and reevaluate if I dont kill. I dont think we have the votes to kill him today is what im trying to say. so lets set up a side wagon to bh. But fuck I dont have enough time
On March 05 2019 08:51 Palmar wrote: Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia
your wifom mind bomb wont work im going to ignore it.
Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia
On March 08 2019 05:48 Vivax wrote: Looks like Ill have to vote BH then to ensure this isnt another fuckup day.
Just look at wiggles first, please?
His posts where he talks to TS seem good to me. TS was like "If Im mayor, ill sheep HF", effectively avoiding to give out an opinion on anyone. WIggles picked up on that.
Third post he calls out like 3 or 4 dudes (you, sent, conversion) for not sticking their neck out, effectively sticking out his own.
Idk, just doesnt seem mafia to me. Also, he most likely was the first to catch TS, so kudos to him.
I can do any other player I have listed in my final list. And BH is the next one in it.
Ok. You're right. The interaction with TS is actually okay :/
But it's from this point onward that I just read mehhhh:
On March 04 2019 14:20 Mr. Wiggles wrote: What do you think of the Acro case Oats?
I've been going back re-reading his posts and the case on him, but I'm having trouble making up my mind. I'll probably sleep on it and re-read again in the morning.
"please tell me what to think, I'll get back" (never did)
On March 05 2019 05:44 Ace wrote: Blazinghand don't get yourself lynched for bs. If you're town you just waste a day as there's no real discussion being generated regarding you, and it's an easy wagon for Scum to hop on.
Thank you! Felt like I was yelling into the wind
Claims he was advocating for BH being town (although I have no idea how Ace got there either), when he was advocating for a mayor to shiv BH rather than lynching him:
On March 05 2019 04:45 Mr. Wiggles wrote: What's with the BH train? If you want to kill a hardcore lurker like that why not use the mayor lynch? I don't see the benefit
On March 05 2019 06:17 Mr. Wiggles wrote: I'll consolidate onto trfel, feels better than Conv to me right now.
On March 05 2019 12:23 WaveofShadow wrote: Anyway, as much as tooting my own horn is super fun (man I was a goddamn all-star scum player---I think my winrate might have been better than HFs)---
I want to make this clear before I post a little on rsoul We are lynching ONLY HF OR BH tomorrow. The game can't proceed properly until that's done. Of those two, I'd rather HF die. Not sure if for personal/fun reasons or not, but whateva. I will not be pushing anyone else actively.
I'll be interested to see what you say about rsoul. Don't read her that way and would rather she doesn't catch a bullet.
Hopefully someone takes care of BH tonight. I get that HF needs to flip too. =/
"Please tell me what to think" take 2.
Nothing he did in D1 was to take solid stances. The very start of the game he was pressuring TS a bit, but dropped it when he got no support and it kinda just faded.
On March 05 2019 12:34 Mr. Wiggles wrote: As much as I didn't like Conversion, Marv seems cool so far.
Not only is this a lie (he scummed trfel over conversion), but marv came in looking pretty townie. If wiggles is scum this is such a safe play! Gain easy town credit when later in the night you shank him. So fucking simple (and btw, I've done this).
On March 05 2019 14:50 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Rayn, is your read on Acro still the same? You had him pegged as scum earlier.
I don't see it after the second half of the day and the reaction to the Palmar lynch. He's helping move the game forward in a useful way now, even if he's wrong about some things (like me)
"Please tell me what to think" take 3.
Then there's a lot of just generally just looking like he's saying stuff without actually saying stuff.
I mean. Do I have a sure read on Wiggles? No. Not really. He could just be a town that's really struggling with the length of the game. But I'm more confident that he's scum than I am that BH is. And for the rest I'm sure Palmar had a damned good reason to suddenly spam the thread with Wiggles is Mafia. He didn't do that with Sentinel, BC or HF. He read Wiggles filter and you can see the alarm bells go off in his head. He never really said why. But it's blendy shit and reads like a blendy mafia.
I have played a scumgame with Wiggles a looooong time ago, and remember bussing him at some point for being all blendy and lurky and stuff. Same as this play. But not sure I ever played with town Wiggles, so meta case is not a good case here.
Please let us know if you notice any mistakes. The deadline is Friday, Mar 08 12:00am GMT (GMT+00:00), which is in .
I brought out my coloring book again. Not a fan about the amount of people I still haven't figured out yet. But big game and a tunnel on HF is gonna do that.
On March 08 2019 06:46 BloodyC0bbler wrote: What the fuck is going on in this game? I leave for a bit and the thread turns to a shit show -_-
How the fuck has more or less the entire thread glossed over the fact we had Rsoultin out Rel's role because she thought he was mafia then proceeded to not seriously push him as a candidate whatsoever Then proceeded to remain voting for someone she doesn't fully believe is fucking scum.
Seriously wtf is wrong with you guys. We have already had a bunch of blues flip and no one questions seriously why its ok for someone to out another players role on a gut read?
IMO there is literally no reason to out rels at this point in time unless you plan to go ham on a scum read.
On March 08 2019 05:54 sicklucker wrote: Well if we dont kill hf now hes never dying. So ill just have to asume hes town if thats happening and pray mafia nk him and reevaluate if I dont kill. I dont think we have the votes to kill him today is what im trying to say. so lets set up a side wagon to bh. But fuck I dont have enough time
We only need like 3 votes on HF. please vote him and stay on him. Don't say "let's just assume he's town for no reason because he's too good at convincing people to ever be able for us to lynch him" wtf
On March 08 2019 06:46 BloodyC0bbler wrote: What the fuck is going on in this game? I leave for a bit and the thread turns to a shit show -_-
How the fuck has more or less the entire thread glossed over the fact we had Rsoultin out Rel's role because she thought he was mafia then proceeded to not seriously push him as a candidate whatsoever Then proceeded to remain voting for someone she doesn't fully believe is fucking scum.
Seriously wtf is wrong with you guys. We have already had a bunch of blues flip and no one questions seriously why its ok for someone to out another players role on a gut read?
IMO there is literally no reason to out rels at this point in time unless you plan to go ham on a scum read.
On March 08 2019 05:57 Blazinghand wrote:
On March 08 2019 05:54 sicklucker wrote: Well if we dont kill hf now hes never dying. So ill just have to asume hes town if thats happening and pray mafia nk him and reevaluate if I dont kill. I dont think we have the votes to kill him today is what im trying to say. so lets set up a side wagon to bh. But fuck I dont have enough time
We only need like 3 votes on HF. please vote him and stay on him. Don't say "let's just assume he's town for no reason because he's too good at convincing people to ever be able for us to lynch him" wtf
Jesus fuck.
You sound like a disappointed and angry dad
in all seriousness, are you saying she should be the lynch?
As of right now? No its too late for a fucking vote swing. But the fact no one is questioning bad play? Like is this the standard now?
On March 08 2019 06:45 Holyflare wrote: Tumblewood why have you gone from me being mafia to not saying a word about me?
Why have you gone from BH is mafia to voting Trfel on day 1?
Why have you not even been mentioning or talking about voting him today?
1. that was the only dirt i have on you and i’m not feeling that strongly about it anymore 2. i don’t remember. you quoted a post where trfel made a bad catch-up post that i didn’t like, and that was definitely part of it. 3. i forgot why i scumread him. though you also quoted a post i made about him and now i definitely favor lynching him over you. actually, in response to both the first and third questions, this lynch makes me antsy because it seems like everyone took it as a foregone conclusion that one of you two would die today. the votes have been relatively stagnant and no other wagons are really being taken seriously. seems like mafia just letting two town wagons go at it. that’s why i’m still on ace for now
Gun to your head you have to pick one: BH or HF dies. Who?
I don't see a single scumread past a very earlygame read on damdred. You late-day claimed you read trfel as town (while confusing everybody into thinking you were talking about BH), but not once during D2 did you bother to read BH's dat bigger filter and just tossed your vote on him. Who do you think the scum is?
@LS: how in the blazing hell is this behavior supposed to give us "information"?! I want to lynch everybody who claimed to want to lunch BH for information and will make that shortlist today.
I don't support a holyflare lunch tomorrow. D2 was totally lost because of making it about holyflare vs BH. Holyflare is probably scum, but it's clear he made himself unlynchable with a whole army of Sheeples who aren't even playing the game. So we just need to kill off the rest of his team first. I also realized that because of D2, I don't even know where the rest of the scum is. They're in a huge pile of blehhhhhhhhhh. I read exo_ fully expecting to think he was scum, but he is no worse than the whole pile of shitty inactives, which includes you, pandain.
I will be ignoring everything HF says for the rest of the game, and am || <- this close to doing the same with rayn.
If someone wants me to comment on something holyflare said, please quote it as I am literally skipping over any post he makes.
PS. I will treat pandain as modconfirmed town, as I refuse to believe mods would allow a scummer to replace out and back in again. So that makes 3 confirmed townies
Hmmm. Fecalfeast is the strongest scumfeel from the filters I read today. He's been around. He has been "helpful" and has the completely unconcerned feel of a scummer who knows his buddies are all safe. Add this to the "bid" he did for mayor, knowing he'd never get elected and use it all of D1 to do effectively nothing. GG.
On March 08 2019 18:57 Acrofales wrote: I don't support a holyflare lunch tomorrow. D2 was totally lost because of making it about holyflare vs BH. Holyflare is probably scum, but it's clear he made himself unlynchable with a whole army of Sheeples who aren't even playing the game. So we just need to kill off the rest of his team first. I also realized that because of D2, I don't even know where the rest of the scum is. They're in a huge pile of blehhhhhhhhhh. I read exo_ fully expecting to think he was scum, but he is no worse than the whole pile of shitty inactives, which includes you, pandain.
I will be ignoring everything HF says for the rest of the game, and am || <- this close to doing the same with rayn.
If someone wants me to comment on something holyflare said, please quote it as I am literally skipping over any post he makes.
PS. I will treat pandain as modconfirmed town, as I refuse to believe mods would allow a scummer to replace out and back in again. So that makes 3 confirmed townies
Is this a real thing? Can anyone else confirm?
The opposite is more likely because a townie would get information out of the game and be observing from the sidelines. Mafia know who mafia are so not much would change. Don't know why acro feels the opposite.
Interesting. I can't really go off other players' reads if you are all saying different things about something like this. That means more work for me fml I'll just treat him like everyone else then and go read his filter.
Reason I think that is because switching out players with replacements confuses things for town, who keep having to read different players. Scum doesn't have to worry about that at all. If pandain had access to obs qt or was chatting with people outside the game about the game in other ways, then scratch this: he shouldn't have replaced back in at all, for obvious reasons. But if he just sat on the sidelines while Adam drowned in a fast-moving thread and then replaced back in, it is an anti-town move if he's scum. Hosts tend not to do anti-town things.
Anyway, I'm totally cool doing host wifom to read people as town in this game. So yeah, Pandain is town.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say TS is town too. He seems like he isn't paying too much attention to the thread, but is following his own reads (which are different to the rest of the town) and is off on his own cloud somewhere. It's fairly easy to fake as scum, and there's some things that just seem almost *overly* insightful (aka TMI), but overall I get the impression he's town.
I'd like to hear more about this tho, I don't think I get it:
On March 08 2019 04:10 Oatsmaster wrote: Mafia boi
If wriggles does the same thing as you in that his case on you can be applied to him, and you are town, doesn’t that mean he’s also town? How does it mean he’s mafia
I never scumread him. So, it’s hilarious you are saying I’m scum for this, but apparently Wiggles is somehow town for doing exactly that. Take a look at my two posts:
On March 06 2019 18:52 Tubesock wrote: Wiggles, you’ve been scumming me since before I even scummed Trfel. Yet you’ve never voted me. Why not? You seem pretty convinced, you have some others who agree. Think about what you say because I’m going to have great satisfaction copy and pasting things from your case on me in my defense.
On March 06 2019 21:47 Tubesock wrote: Wiggles is funny to me. I feel like I can just take his case on me, and find/replace his name for mine and submit it with equal fervor. Plus we voted on both wagons so we can’t be too far off.
Why do you think i wrote the big and bold?? It’s a fucking trap and you fell right into it.
Oatsmaster didn’t bother to read anything more than the single post and looking for “reads” at the shallowest of levels. You went straight to Tube is mafia because of this “slip” you found. Yet you had no idea it was a trap and you fell into it!!!
This action on your part is representative of your entire game. You are mafia.
On March 06 2019 21:47 Tubesock wrote: Wiggles is funny to me. I feel like I can just take his case on me, and find/replace his name for mine and submit it with equal fervor. Plus we voted on both wagons so we can’t be too far off.
This should make wriggles town to him right because he does the exact same things as wriggles
This is a funny point that was missed on my first read through. If Tubesock thinks my play looks the same as what I've been pointing out in his, then he should probably read me similarly to his own alignment. If he thinks that makes me look like mafia, that's probably that scum guilt eating him up inside. Oats didn't let that slip slip his attention. Bravo!
I'm trying to sort out this tangled up mess too. It just seems disingenuous to say this, but I can't quite put my finger on why.
Let me try rewording it, and Oats, TS and Wiggles correct me if this is what they thought:
Wiggles: cases TS with the following:
On March 06 2019 11:28 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Tubesock fell off the face of the earth. Still scum though.
Got to pressure vote trfel near the start of the day and park the vote because the rest of us ran with a case. No posting into D2 means no pressure from the lynch fallout. Pushed the Palmar is scum thing early without needing to commit hard on it or later comment on HF's announcement of a Palmar lynch.
We've only gotten two reads out of TS on trfel and conversion and they've both flipped now. Besides that we have zero information on where their head's at, scum-hunting wise. Lurking without offering anything to town.
TS responds to this case saying that it doesn't feel right that Wiggles reads him as scum for this, as Wiggles has done exactly the same. Therefore if Wiggles is *town* he should realize that TS and he had the same behaviour and is therefore also town.
I don't actually see TS drawing conclusions from it, just saying that it's a bullshit case, at this point.
Oats chips in and says that it's weird, because if TS is town, and knows that the behaviour in the bullshit case comes from a townie, then he must see Wiggles as a townie.
I'm not sure I agree with that, because there is a major difference in their behaviour now:
Wiggles thinks tubesock's behaviour for which he was cased was scummy. Tubesock just thinks that Wiggles exhibited the same behaviour, not that the behaviour is scummy.
So if TS scumreads Wiggles, it isn't for the behaviour itself (which he thinks he shares), but rather for the hipocrisy of finding that behaviour scummy. But I do see where Oats is coming from. He just read too much into it. My real issue is the follow-up from Wiggles that I quoted at the top:
At this point we have Wiggles scumming TS for behaviour that TS says was the same as his own, and we don't have TS scumming Wiggles, just pointing out the hipocrisy. Wiggles tunnels in on it and says "well, if you see this as scummy then you must be scum yourself". This just seems super disingenuous and Wiggles isn't really trying to figure out whether TS is scum or town, just paint him red and call it a day.
On March 08 2019 12:55 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Our next letter is quite unpleasant. The contents of if describe various threats of death and bodily harm to your host in graphic detail, and the letter also looks to be smeared with what appears to be excrement.
Though the signature is partially obscured by said foul substance, we can make out some of the letters: A--of-l-s.
Now, we have a suspicion of who this misguided individual could be, and so we'll be addressing this hate-mail.
On March 08 2019 05:48 Vivax wrote: Looks like Ill have to vote BH then to ensure this isnt another fuckup day.
Just look at wiggles first, please?
His posts where he talks to TS seem good to me. TS was like "If Im mayor, ill sheep HF", effectively avoiding to give out an opinion on anyone. WIggles picked up on that.
Third post he calls out like 3 or 4 dudes (you, sent, conversion) for not sticking their neck out, effectively sticking out his own.
Idk, just doesnt seem mafia to me. Also, he most likely was the first to catch TS, so kudos to him.
I can do any other player I have listed in my final list. And BH is the next one in it.
Ok. You're right. The interaction with TS is actually okay :/
But it's from this point onward that I just read mehhhh:
On March 04 2019 14:20 Mr. Wiggles wrote: What do you think of the Acro case Oats?
I've been going back re-reading his posts and the case on him, but I'm having trouble making up my mind. I'll probably sleep on it and re-read again in the morning.
"please tell me what to think, I'll get back" (never did)
On March 05 2019 05:44 Ace wrote: Blazinghand don't get yourself lynched for bs. If you're town you just waste a day as there's no real discussion being generated regarding you, and it's an easy wagon for Scum to hop on.
Thank you! Felt like I was yelling into the wind
Claims he was advocating for BH being town (although I have no idea how Ace got there either), when he was advocating for a mayor to shiv BH rather than lynching him:
On March 05 2019 04:45 Mr. Wiggles wrote: What's with the BH train? If you want to kill a hardcore lurker like that why not use the mayor lynch? I don't see the benefit
On March 05 2019 12:23 WaveofShadow wrote: Anyway, as much as tooting my own horn is super fun (man I was a goddamn all-star scum player---I think my winrate might have been better than HFs)---
I want to make this clear before I post a little on rsoul We are lynching ONLY HF OR BH tomorrow. The game can't proceed properly until that's done. Of those two, I'd rather HF die. Not sure if for personal/fun reasons or not, but whateva. I will not be pushing anyone else actively.
I'll be interested to see what you say about rsoul. Don't read her that way and would rather she doesn't catch a bullet.
Hopefully someone takes care of BH tonight. I get that HF needs to flip too. =/
"Please tell me what to think" take 2.
Nothing he did in D1 was to take solid stances. The very start of the game he was pressuring TS a bit, but dropped it when he got no support and it kinda just faded.
On March 05 2019 12:34 Mr. Wiggles wrote: As much as I didn't like Conversion, Marv seems cool so far.
Not only is this a lie (he scummed trfel over conversion), but marv came in looking pretty townie. If wiggles is scum this is such a safe play! Gain easy town credit when later in the night you shank him. So fucking simple (and btw, I've done this).
On March 05 2019 14:50 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Rayn, is your read on Acro still the same? You had him pegged as scum earlier.
I don't see it after the second half of the day and the reaction to the Palmar lynch. He's helping move the game forward in a useful way now, even if he's wrong about some things (like me)
"Please tell me what to think" take 3.
Then there's a lot of just generally just looking like he's saying stuff without actually saying stuff.
I mean. Do I have a sure read on Wiggles? No. Not really. He could just be a town that's really struggling with the length of the game. But I'm more confident that he's scum than I am that BH is. And for the rest I'm sure Palmar had a damned good reason to suddenly spam the thread with Wiggles is Mafia. He didn't do that with Sentinel, BC or HF. He read Wiggles filter and you can see the alarm bells go off in his head. He never really said why. But it's blendy shit and reads like a blendy mafia.
I have played a scumgame with Wiggles a looooong time ago, and remember bussing him at some point for being all blendy and lurky and stuff. Same as this play. But not sure I ever played with town Wiggles, so meta case is not a good case here.
Now this individual claims several times that your host is asking callers to tell him what to think about some of our other citizens, rather than making up his own mind. We can say that this is a patently false statement.
After our first interaction asking about esteemed citizen Acrofales (no relation to A--of-l-s, we hope), we made up our minds that we consider him to be of a green persuasion. See our lack of joining the mob looking to do him violence on Day 1. We later press Rayn (who we are suspicious of!) about their read of Acrofales (who again, we think is town). The case put forward by Rayn appears to be a bunch of hooey from our perspective, so we want to see if he'll double-down on it, which they have more than done throughout the night and this day cycle, even going so far as to avoid the other wagons.
rsoultin was another of our town reads, so any cases put forth to attempt to undermine or sway opinion to the contrary were of interest to us. This was especially important, because cases made and pushed throughout the night could persuade the vigilante element of our society to take things into their own hands. Many of our players are a little buck-wild, to put things lightly, so it was a valid concern.
Lastly, regarding our dearly departed suicidal team mate BH, we did not want to see a large wagon on him on D1. We felt that the wagons and votes of the day would provide information that would be useful, and that this would be subverted by having the entire town jump on a martyr who we could instead let the mayor take care of. We did not once claim a town read on BH, but have leaned null (early) to scum (recently). Regardless of BH's alignment the Day 1 wagon was very easy for scum to hop onto if they so desired without needing to put forward any contribution.
I really do like the flavour you're putting into these posts
I'm also starting to see some glimmers of town in you more recently, but your play still feels very off. I still agree with rsoul. It's very peanut gallery. You seem more invested than FF at least. But some things just don't add up. The tunnel on tubesock that nobody is paying any attention to is just so... easy.
Also the reasoning around hopping on the trfel wagon feels like feigned interest.
You can literally just go where the wind blows. There's some light pressure, a bit of a tunnel, and a lot of blehhhhhh. Enough to look interested, but not enough to actually contribute.
On March 09 2019 00:26 Ace wrote: Lol @ Jock's post. Having a short filter, not throwing around a lot of accusations, and....asking a question but not answering it (umm...duh?) makes me scum.
I really do not believe any vigi reading that post would let you live. Its just random shit thrown at a wall to look active 😁
On March 03 2019 02:10 Ace wrote: I think we should nominate someone who has barely posted yet as Mayor. There are a lot of thoughts already posted that could help us draw conclusions based on conversations.
Giving a semi-lurking/lurking player lynch power and forcing them into the game seems like a good move to me. So a player like Tumblewood or tubesock should be nominated (they've barely posted from a cursory filter check).
Did you ever do anything with this? If so, what? I refuse to believe this was a serious plan, which makes it an Ace plan. I'd like to know what you did with the reactions.
What about this:
On March 04 2019 02:23 Ace wrote: Uhhh *lynch.
Basically if they have similar ideas on who should be lynched and HF came up with the idea first(not sure, have to re-read) then why is Palmar gaining more support than he/she is. Could be nothing but I think this is one of the few real "divisive" issues that can show scum motives that we've had so far.
You seemed to think it was important, but I never saw you return to it.
There's some other bits and pieces in your filter where you seemed to be going somewhere, but just dropped it. That made me sad. Lets start with these two, though.
On March 09 2019 01:04 Vivax wrote: Damn and here I was wondering who the actual last mafia was and he comes straight up to me and tells me to townread HF followed by listing up lynch bait.
Can you do what I'm doing today? Assume for the sake of the game that HF is town. He almost certainly isn't, but making D2 all about him was bad enough and ended in a townie getting lynched *who actually looked like a townie*. You were wrong on BH, you may be wrong on other people too. So take a step back, and find HF's 6 scumbuddies. Then tell me why, and to make this exercise more fun: I don't want to hear they're scum because they associate to HF in some manner, but why they are scum for their own sake.
I've read Jock's filter again now. Reads like a townie trying stuff. There's lots of things there. But this horrific noise can only be posted by mafia. No townie would want other townies to listen to that.
I'm probably dumb, but the last time you mentioned someone other than me as mafia seems to be over 24 hours ago. I think you read Ace and Slam as cum at the moment, but not sure who the other 2 are.
On March 09 2019 03:38 Vivax wrote: How can you say that exos filter is fine when he has 0 scumreads and killed bh after at least soft townreading him on D1
Because it's very innocent. If all the useless people in this game are scum, there are at least 15 scummers this game.
On March 09 2019 03:38 Vivax wrote: How can you say that exos filter is fine when he has 0 scumreads and killed bh after at least soft townreading him on D1
Because it's very innocent. If all the useless people in this game are scum, there are at least 15 scummers this game.
If you put it like that I can see where you're coming from. The vt claim, the excessive picture spam. I guess distinguishing bad from scum is hard in his case.
That means jock goes back instead of him. Derp. That's some crazy early bussing though, considering he abandoned it rather quickly, it doesn't really have consequences.
On March 05 2019 10:21 Ace wrote: Well that was terrible.
@Trfel: Really wish you claimed :'(. GG tho dude/dudette.
There are no mafia doctors so vigis can shoot Holyflare at will. If he somehow does not die tonight he is an auto-lynch tomorrow.
Earlier in the thread when I was talking to HF and Wiggles, I was alluding to the fact that Hf or Palmar have to stick to their plan on the lynch (Sentinel). It would take a very convincing reason to lynch someone else. For all his talk, Palmar never came across as a strong scum read. HF lynching him instead of Sentinel or even BH means he has to die. He did not stick to his guns and did not have good reason to lynch Palmar.
side note:Would have been funny (and rage inducing) if Trfel flipped Cop and Palmar flipped back up Cop.
Anyway, we kill HF asap. No fucking around.
What is this? Even I know hf stuck to his guns he wan ted to lynch palm for a long time no?
Him wanting to lynch Palmar =/= good reason to switch.
Uh but you said he didnt stick to his guns, which he did.
I'm pretty sure he ran his platform on lynching palm...
i dont think thats entirely true i need to read more thread. regardless dont defend him it was bad. Just becuase he had it planned dont make it the most anti town thing he could have done
Perhaps, I dont mean this as a defense of HF questioning ace. I think what ace is sayi g is a misrepresentation of hf, I think if you think hf is anti town or scum that's fine but ace post was not great and should be questioned.
I like this post from damdred Assuming his activity is not alignment indicative this is exactly how I felt about ace's posting. Also his posting around rsoul/hf gives me ok feels
Wish he did more cause he's a good player, would make this game much easier. Probably gonna get mod killed.
I don't see what's townie about it. It is like pretty much all his filter. It's very soft and there was never any follow-up. Did he actually question Ace? Nope.
Okay, time is running out. I haven't filtered everybody yet, but here goes.
First off, I am the lurker vigilante and I shot damdred tonight.
It's a kinda useless twist on vigilante that puts some overly strict conditions on who I am allowed to shoot. On N1 I wasn't allowed to shoot anybody. Tonight I had a choice of Damdred, Chezinu and Pandain/AMG. Out of these I deemed damdred the scummiest.
Trust me, if I could have, I would have aimed this gun at HF's head twice already, but I can't
I expect to die tonight, so have my list post. Not that anybody here ever listens to the dead guys.
The lurk scum:
FecalFeast He's been around. He has been "helpful" and has the completely unconcerned feel of a scummer who knows his buddies are all safe. Add this to the "bid" he did for mayor, knowing he'd never get elected and use it all of D1 to do effectively nothing. GG.
He is not at all concerned with the goings on of the day. I understand someone says it's not FF meta to run for mayor as scum, but what did he do as mayor? Did even a single person vote for him? But really, was he sticking his head out above the cornfield? Not that I could see. He wasn't pushing any kind of platform, just sorta making posts about how he wanted to be mayor, without doing anything else?
Wiggles I cased him a bit earlier. This was my conclusion (bit rambly): + Show Spoiler +
On March 08 2019 21:47 Acrofales wrote: Hmmm, I think I'm starting to figure it out on my own, I'm just reaching a different conclusion.
Sorry for being a bit dense, but this is actually a super-interesting exchange that got totally snowed under in the HF-BH house of horror.
On March 07 2019 12:54 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Our dedicated fan Oatsmaster also writes in:
On March 07 2019 02:30 Oatsmaster wrote:
On March 06 2019 21:47 Tubesock wrote: Wiggles is funny to me. I feel like I can just take his case on me, and find/replace his name for mine and submit it with equal fervor. Plus we voted on both wagons so we can’t be too far off.
This should make wriggles town to him right because he does the exact same things as wriggles
This is a funny point that was missed on my first read through. If Tubesock thinks my play looks the same as what I've been pointing out in his, then he should probably read me similarly to his own alignment. If he thinks that makes me look like mafia, that's probably that scum guilt eating him up inside. Oats didn't let that slip slip his attention. Bravo!
I'm trying to sort out this tangled up mess too. It just seems disingenuous to say this, but I can't quite put my finger on why.
Let me try rewording it, and Oats, TS and Wiggles correct me if this is what they thought:
On March 06 2019 11:28 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Tubesock fell off the face of the earth. Still scum though.
Got to pressure vote trfel near the start of the day and park the vote because the rest of us ran with a case. No posting into D2 means no pressure from the lynch fallout. Pushed the Palmar is scum thing early without needing to commit hard on it or later comment on HF's announcement of a Palmar lynch.
We've only gotten two reads out of TS on trfel and conversion and they've both flipped now. Besides that we have zero information on where their head's at, scum-hunting wise. Lurking without offering anything to town.
TS responds to this case saying that it doesn't feel right that Wiggles reads him as scum for this, as Wiggles has done exactly the same. Therefore if Wiggles is *town* he should realize that TS and he had the same behaviour and is therefore also town.
I don't actually see TS drawing conclusions from it, just saying that it's a bullshit case, at this point.
Oats chips in and says that it's weird, because if TS is town, and knows that the behaviour in the bullshit case comes from a townie, then he must see Wiggles as a townie.
I'm not sure I agree with that, because there is a major difference in their behaviour now:
Wiggles thinks tubesock's behaviour for which he was cased was scummy. Tubesock just thinks that Wiggles exhibited the same behaviour, not that the behaviour is scummy.
So if TS scumreads Wiggles, it isn't for the behaviour itself (which he thinks he shares), but rather for the hipocrisy of finding that behaviour scummy. But I do see where Oats is coming from. He just read too much into it. My real issue is the follow-up from Wiggles that I quoted at the top:
At this point we have Wiggles scumming TS for behaviour that TS says was the same as his own, and we don't have TS scumming Wiggles, just pointing out the hipocrisy. Wiggles tunnels in on it and says "well, if you see this as scummy then you must be scum yourself". This just seems super disingenuous and Wiggles isn't really trying to figure out whether TS is scum or town, just paint him red and call it a day.
On March 08 2019 12:55 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Our next letter is quite unpleasant. The contents of if describe various threats of death and bodily harm to your host in graphic detail, and the letter also looks to be smeared with what appears to be excrement.
Though the signature is partially obscured by said foul substance, we can make out some of the letters: A--of-l-s.
Now, we have a suspicion of who this misguided individual could be, and so we'll be addressing this hate-mail.
On March 08 2019 05:48 Vivax wrote: Looks like Ill have to vote BH then to ensure this isnt another fuckup day.
Just look at wiggles first, please?
His posts where he talks to TS seem good to me. TS was like "If Im mayor, ill sheep HF", effectively avoiding to give out an opinion on anyone. WIggles picked up on that.
Third post he calls out like 3 or 4 dudes (you, sent, conversion) for not sticking their neck out, effectively sticking out his own.
Idk, just doesnt seem mafia to me. Also, he most likely was the first to catch TS, so kudos to him.
I can do any other player I have listed in my final list. And BH is the next one in it.
Ok. You're right. The interaction with TS is actually okay :/
But it's from this point onward that I just read mehhhh:
On March 04 2019 14:20 Mr. Wiggles wrote: What do you think of the Acro case Oats?
I've been going back re-reading his posts and the case on him, but I'm having trouble making up my mind. I'll probably sleep on it and re-read again in the morning.
"please tell me what to think, I'll get back" (never did)
On March 05 2019 05:44 Ace wrote: Blazinghand don't get yourself lynched for bs. If you're town you just waste a day as there's no real discussion being generated regarding you, and it's an easy wagon for Scum to hop on.
Thank you! Felt like I was yelling into the wind
Claims he was advocating for BH being town (although I have no idea how Ace got there either), when he was advocating for a mayor to shiv BH rather than lynching him:
On March 05 2019 04:45 Mr. Wiggles wrote: What's with the BH train? If you want to kill a hardcore lurker like that why not use the mayor lynch? I don't see the benefit
On March 05 2019 12:23 WaveofShadow wrote: Anyway, as much as tooting my own horn is super fun (man I was a goddamn all-star scum player---I think my winrate might have been better than HFs)---
I want to make this clear before I post a little on rsoul We are lynching ONLY HF OR BH tomorrow. The game can't proceed properly until that's done. Of those two, I'd rather HF die. Not sure if for personal/fun reasons or not, but whateva. I will not be pushing anyone else actively.
I'll be interested to see what you say about rsoul. Don't read her that way and would rather she doesn't catch a bullet.
Hopefully someone takes care of BH tonight. I get that HF needs to flip too. =/
"Please tell me what to think" take 2.
Nothing he did in D1 was to take solid stances. The very start of the game he was pressuring TS a bit, but dropped it when he got no support and it kinda just faded.
On March 05 2019 12:34 Mr. Wiggles wrote: As much as I didn't like Conversion, Marv seems cool so far.
Not only is this a lie (he scummed trfel over conversion), but marv came in looking pretty townie. If wiggles is scum this is such a safe play! Gain easy town credit when later in the night you shank him. So fucking simple (and btw, I've done this).
On March 05 2019 14:50 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Rayn, is your read on Acro still the same? You had him pegged as scum earlier.
I don't see it after the second half of the day and the reaction to the Palmar lynch. He's helping move the game forward in a useful way now, even if he's wrong about some things (like me)
"Please tell me what to think" take 3.
Then there's a lot of just generally just looking like he's saying stuff without actually saying stuff.
I mean. Do I have a sure read on Wiggles? No. Not really. He could just be a town that's really struggling with the length of the game. But I'm more confident that he's scum than I am that BH is. And for the rest I'm sure Palmar had a damned good reason to suddenly spam the thread with Wiggles is Mafia. He didn't do that with Sentinel, BC or HF. He read Wiggles filter and you can see the alarm bells go off in his head. He never really said why. But it's blendy shit and reads like a blendy mafia.
I have played a scumgame with Wiggles a looooong time ago, and remember bussing him at some point for being all blendy and lurky and stuff. Same as this play. But not sure I ever played with town Wiggles, so meta case is not a good case here.
Now this individual claims several times that your host is asking callers to tell him what to think about some of our other citizens, rather than making up his own mind. We can say that this is a patently false statement.
After our first interaction asking about esteemed citizen Acrofales (no relation to A--of-l-s, we hope), we made up our minds that we consider him to be of a green persuasion. See our lack of joining the mob looking to do him violence on Day 1. We later press Rayn (who we are suspicious of!) about their read of Acrofales (who again, we think is town). The case put forward by Rayn appears to be a bunch of hooey from our perspective, so we want to see if he'll double-down on it, which they have more than done throughout the night and this day cycle, even going so far as to avoid the other wagons.
rsoultin was another of our town reads, so any cases put forth to attempt to undermine or sway opinion to the contrary were of interest to us. This was especially important, because cases made and pushed throughout the night could persuade the vigilante element of our society to take things into their own hands. Many of our players are a little buck-wild, to put things lightly, so it was a valid concern.
Lastly, regarding our dearly departed suicidal team mate BH, we did not want to see a large wagon on him on D1. We felt that the wagons and votes of the day would provide information that would be useful, and that this would be subverted by having the entire town jump on a martyr who we could instead let the mayor take care of. We did not once claim a town read on BH, but have leaned null (early) to scum (recently). Regardless of BH's alignment the Day 1 wagon was very easy for scum to hop onto if they so desired without needing to put forward any contribution.
I really do like the flavour you're putting into these posts
I'm also starting to see some glimmers of town in you more recently, but your play still feels very off. I still agree with rsoul. It's very peanut gallery. You seem more invested than FF at least. But some things just don't add up. The tunnel on tubesock that nobody is paying any attention to is just so... easy.
Also the reasoning around hopping on the trfel wagon feels like feigned interest.
You can literally just go where the wind blows. There's some light pressure, a bit of a tunnel, and a lot of blehhhhhh. Enough to look interested, but not enough to actually contribute.
Conclusion: still Wiggles
But all you really need to know is, and I can't stress this enough:
On March 05 2019 08:51 Palmar wrote: Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia
your wifom mind bomb wont work im going to ignore it.
Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia Wiggles is mafia
Damdred See above, but if for some dumb reason my shot doesn't go through. His filter is empty of anything of value.
Ace Read Jock's case. It's actually quite good. But mostly just read Ace's filter. He looks really clever and doing things, but 95% of his posts are coaching or berating people. I'm not going to say Ace wouldn't play like that as town, as he very well might. But as long as there wasn't really a lynch to move, scum felt no pressure to move any wagons. The top 6!!! lynch votes on D1 were all town. So scum just happily did nothing. And the king of doing nothing? Ace.
I also don't feel that his stance on HF gets him off. (1) nobody was actually paying much attention to him, and (2) a good bus is an important part of being scum. I don't have a clear reason to call him town, and Ace is a good enough player that that is dangerous.
Bloodycobbler Like Ace, but remarkably I have some reasons to call him town: his anger may feel a bit fake, but the way he posts it just can't help but draw negative attention to himself. He shows up and berates everybody, then fucks off again. It feels like he's just antagonizing people for the sake of antagonizing them... and that isn't something scum generally do. Maybe BC does. I wouldn't know. Just doesn't make a lot of sense.
Chezinu I can't get a read on him one way or the other, and he has stopped playing entirely.
Sentinel There's some damning stuff and some redeeming stuff in his filter. I needed to ask him something to start making sense of it. Until that time I can't make up my mind properly. But not playing at all is NAI as far as I'm concerned. So /shrug...
Onegu AFK. No red flags in his few posts.
Pandain Host wifom reasons to read him town. Beyond that no clue really.
On March 09 2019 09:06 Holyflare wrote: Oh hey look absolutely everyone that would be defending me died and the one guy that yelled about lynching me for dumb reasons was mafia. That's cool.
Way to make the nightkills all about yourself.
Am I wrong though?
Maybe not. Maybe this was indeed why you shanked them.
Well, my vigi role isn't too bizar. And backup cop isn't either. So what are the non-normal roles you object to so much? Or you just peeved that town had 2 vigilantes?
Well, my vigi role isn't too bizar. And backup cop isn't either. So what are the non-normal roles you object to so much? Or you just peeved that town had 2 vigilantes?
A vig that can't shoot n1 and can only shoot into a selection of 3 people n2? That's absolutely not standard and how are the 3 people even chosen? Sounds bullshit.
A backup cop is absolutely not standard.
None of this is a normal game in the slightest.
Well, I'm not telling scum how my role works, so you can believe it's bullshit all you like, lol.
On March 09 2019 15:31 Rels wrote: well, Pandain is probably town. Mafia dayvig would be way too OP
Why? They have to shoot in thread I assume. Doesn’t seem that op to me
'cause they can autowin anytime they reach LYLO with it
maybe it cant be shot during lylo
Damn. Why you gotta rain on our confirmed town circle You're right tho. That is possible if it's a scumgun.
Will have to re-read. I feel like HF had thrown away all town trust, but obviously I was biased. If ppl were listening to him, I can imagine scum shooting him. If he was just running through the motions, then I think scum would've left him alive and just tunneled the hell out of him at lylo for an easy victory.
Okay guys, D1 all the main wagons for mayor and lynch were town. D2 both main wagons were town. The NKs on N2 are weak. I think we're dealing with some extremely lurky blendy scummers.
My shortlist for today is Ace, FF and Wiggles. I also think I can figure out Sentinels alignment if he answers my question and I have some time to piece it all together. Unfortunately I don't have the latter. Got a long day of racing today, and tomorrow. So will be back this evening late.
@LS: you like doing vote analysis stuff, because information. Right? So we got the final piece of both D1 and D2 puzzles. Go for it!
On March 10 2019 05:59 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Acro, are you able to share the details of your role?
Is it based on a list of lurkers that you're just given, or were you told the criteria for inclusion on the list?
Yeah, sure. I had a half-baked plan of making ppl think I had more bullets and got weird lists, to make scum RB and shoot me, but messed it up already and their RB is dead.
I had 1 bullet and could shoot anyone who didn't vote it had less then 5 posts during the day. I whined to the hosts that I couldn't use it n1 as nobody met the requirements, but n2 it was more useful. Judging by the last post I should have shot the brown. I haven't gotten to why yet, tho :p
On March 09 2019 09:02 Dandel Ion wrote: rsoultin, the Vanilla Townie has been killed. Damdred, the Vanilla Townie has been killed. BloodyC0bbler, the Mafia Roleblocker has been killed. WaveofShadow, the Vanilla Townie has been killed. raynpelikoneet, the Vanilla Townie has been killed.
Yeah for the scum death! But there goes my town circle
And lol @ 3 townies hard townreading HF + 1 scum hard pushing HF dying. HF is town and scum are trying to ML him again
Rels fucking help me.
Like this yes 100%
And he shot him after this.
The fucking cherry on top is the Ace claim with pandain in it.
I'm tired and dumb. Walk me through this please.
Pandain day vigd HF. In plain view in the thread. What does Ace have to do with anything?
Lol. I love how the Chez case is 99% based on a wrong interpretation of my role. I can't make heads or tails.of his filter but he totally stopped playing for 3 days now. Is Chez one of those guys who hates playing scum? He seemed super excited to play before the game started...
Okay. It's pretty much a lurker lunch, but yeah, lets kill Chez. Don't really have the energy to figure out which ones of sentinel, MZ, FF, wiggles and Ace are scum. Also, Chez says he has bad inside him:
On March 04 2019 07:16 rsoultin wrote: I'm not liking wave this game for reasons I can't describe other than he seems like one of those old vulture headed muppets in the peanut gallery.
me too. He's popping once in a while to say nothing. His one post that contains something serious is also pretty bad, how Conversion is town because it's an early game wagon
Lol >< I know this is ironic but you playing D1 is skeezing me out, and though I think I'm obv town I also know I look a bit like a looney toon on crack so I'm not sure why you'd be top towning me in this crowd which I presume is the reason you're voting me mayor?
But I'm gonna ignore that as a later in the game concern.
Anyone else on Wave? Like I don't really remember ever being so great at reading him or anything and I think he's kinda blah like this as town sometimes but maybe not to this extent idk ><
72 hours of D1 is a blessing for me The way you doubted yourself over rayn was super townie
Sheeesh I didn't know day 1 was 72 hours. I thought we were getting near time for shenannies. I'm walking off.
Oh.. I didnt know that.. I could have trolled even longer. I was about to get serious. Nm. Will figure out who to kill tomorrow.
What is your relationship to the world famous investigator known as C?
No, I have no figure out who to kill except the evil man within me. But then I realized that I cannot kill that man within me for the beat is the man in me. That is what makes me brown for my savior implanted in me a spirit of blueness that I cannot not fulfill because the evil man is still in me. I cannot work to kill this man but real solely on the mercy of God to kill this evil man in me. In this world the evil man will still be in me. But there will be a time when the evil man will die and the spirit man my God gave me will live. I will then get to know God, my savior. I will be one with him. He will be in me and i will be in him just as me savior foretold.
On March 02 2019 20:50 BloodyC0bbler wrote: As I said before. I have night continental shifts so my activity this weekend will be sporadic.
Current reads that matter.
Rsoultin Iamperfection
Chezinu
Now to go into the why.
Iamperfection has literally done nothing so far this game thus far. He accused chez for posting to post while providing next to - content in his own posts. The one post he makes where he outlines a "read" he doesn't go into it at all then back burners it to harass someone for not playing at the level he wants. I also hate people who talk about what any power role should do day 1 (actively talking about vig shots) as that leads to the potential of power roles outing themself to be sniped by mafia.
Rsoultin. The guy accuses a player (Chezinu) of posting fluff rp posts that provide no content. This post specifically screams at every core of my being.
On March 02 2019 20:27 rsoultin wrote: Pft. Chez was just such a non-entity in his roleplay posts. I don't care about the roleplay. It's just if he's engaged enough in the thread to roleplay, and also to try to communicate with other players and make comments about the game, I expect something shiny and smart from him. It doesn't have to be new.
But what he was giving were non-committal turds and I don't even know what that spoilered lynch list or ls emoticon thing was about.
Chezinu is a known quantity to RP in mafia games. Hes literally done it in some capacity in basically every game I can remember playing in with him. He always provides some form of content in said posts. He has literally given reads on players, and has been providing actual content without RP for a fucking change. Chez has clearly been doing more to push some form of conversation on players to force them to voice opinions. Clearly done more to help this game than most to this point.
Yes the guy has had some shit posts, but hes also playing the game seriously.
Proof Mafia know that I'm town.
Hey Chez, glad to see you're alive!
Hilarious that you think this saves you tho. You know your name is green while 2 flipped townies are above you in red? Clearly the way to read that post is by subtracting brown from those colors
On March 03 2019 11:32 LightningStrike wrote: Sent is policy at best I wont lynch him unless there is no better option honestly.
There is literally no better option on day 1 than policy. Those are the best lynches on day 1 because you get rid of trash on a day with no information.
Getting rid of trash on a day with no information = no further information besides whether or not said trash was scum or town
I'm not reading my PM, pile those votes on
Ok. So you literally read your role PM right after this defiant yell in the face of Palmar's mayor run.
On March 10 2019 17:52 Acrofales wrote: People who know rels and rsoultin: how good is she at sussing out a scum!Rels?
And would a scum!Rels risk that, knowing he was never getting lynched D2, and was gonna kill rsoultin right after?
Having not read a bit about this role Rels has or whatever that stuff is about, I am fairly confident he is town here.
If Rsoul was willing to give Rels any sort of solid townread without a bunch of caviotes as to how he might be scum, I think you can trust her read. I can't speak to how good Rsoul was at reading Rels, but I know she would not put her paranoia about his scum game behind her easily.
Point is that she didn't. She thought he was scum.
On March 11 2019 01:32 sicklucker wrote: Also i finnaly read the op. Its says closed setup... Which means only the roles in the list are in the game. But thats clearly not true with day vig. Bastard mods
No, that is not what closed means. Closed means the mods don't tell you what roles are in the game.
I don't consider dayvig a normal role though, so kita is a bastard mod
And with that, I announce that I'm back!!! 6 hours to sort out this lynch, and it looks like we're lynching lurk today.
Top candidates seem to be:
Ace Chez and an outside shot on Sentinel.
I'd like to nominate Rels to the list, but I am gonna have to read rsoultin and rayn's filter before we do that, and that is quite the read :/
Went through rayn and rsoul's filter about rels. I think rsoul was almost certainly killed for her reads. I just need to figure out which ones.
Rels figures quite prominently among her "we need to kill" list until other people started convincing her that neighbourizer is a town role. I don't know if I still believe that with how weird this game has gotten.
I'm really starting to feel a Rels lynch, guys. I will filter him next and assume neighbourizer is a null role.
Speak of the devil. Hey rels, why are you coasting by on your confirmed town status? Both rsoul and rayn are your friends, and both got shot when they were very unhappy that you didn't want to scumhunt with them...
His only real scum case is Ace... and he made it *after* Ace was catching a load of flak and was gonna be pushed today. Other than that I don't even know who he thinks is scum... he's just sorta following along. Then again, I thought the exact same about damdred and he flipped town. At least in this case I also have rsoul and rayn thinking there was something off about his play tho, and they do know him well, apparently.
So we can lynch:
Ace. He's being Ace. Fucked if I know if he's being town ace or scum ace. He's mostly just coaching people and doing not much on his own. Blehhh.
Chezinu. He's... well... chezinu. Normally by now the chezinus of this world have done something to show their alignment, but got nothing so far. Blehhhh.
Rels. Lurker. Under pressure from the night kills. Not clear enough pressure for scum to just shoot them to wifom town into killing them (both had him as null reads, leaning scum), but I could see a paranoid Rels directing shots at them. His filter is blehhhhh.
I prefer going off the last read. Gonna make sense of sentinel. There was a real point I wanted to make about knowing when he read his PM, but he read it earlier than he claimed he did, which means I need to rethink it. I beleive the point is still valid, but give me some time to pull those brainthreads and make sure my thoughts still make sense.
For now, I think we should kill Rels. I feel that kill more than ace or chezinu.
On March 11 2019 02:44 Acrofales wrote: Went through rayn and rsoul's filter about rels. I think rsoul was almost certainly killed for her reads. I just need to figure out which ones.
Rels figures quite prominently among her "we need to kill" list until other people started convincing her that neighbourizer is a town role. I don't know if I still believe that with how weird this game has gotten.
I'm really starting to feel a Rels lynch, guys. I will filter him next and assume neighbourizer is a null role.
rayn thought I was town all day long, even before my role was outted, how do that work with that theory?
He wasn't happy with you at all. He doesn't mention you much, but he was frustrated that you didn't scumhunt with him. Point me to the town read plz.
On March 11 2019 02:46 LightningStrike wrote: Acro if you read Tina's last list she had nailed BC maybe we should listen to Tina on DF although I don't know her reasoning why she was scumreading him unless she posted in her filter.
I haven't paid any attention to DF at all this game. You're right that I probably should.
On March 11 2019 03:01 Acrofales wrote: Well, Rels's filter is really blehhh.
His only real scum case is Ace... and he made it *after* Ace was catching a load of flak and was gonna be pushed today. Other than that I don't even know who he thinks is scum... he's just sorta following along. Then again, I thought the exact same about damdred and he flipped town. At least in this case I also have rsoul and rayn thinking there was something off about his play tho, and they do know him well, apparently.
If you don't know who I think is scum you're lying about having read my filter.
Interesting. Maybe quote your own filter where you scumread someone other than BH, and today Ace.
@Rels: you forget that we know you *have* to invite him to your QT, and you *have* to scumhunt with him actively. And rayn has many faults, but inactivity is not one of them. So if you don't actively bounce ideas around with him (and rsoul), I think he starts suspecting you. Or at least, a scum!Rels fears that.
That's my hypothetical for why a scum!Rels shoots rayn. I have been trying to wrap my brain around why scum shoot rayn in general. He was making the thread an unhappy place for many people, and that seems like a good thing for scum, even if nobody was actually strongly scumreading him.
rsoul and wos make sense: obvious townies making reads and being happy. but rayn was just angry and destructive (although it might just have been me who felt like that being on the ass end of his tunnel all game). He was also wrong on his tunnel. Why shoot him at all?
On March 11 2019 03:01 Acrofales wrote: Well, Rels's filter is really blehhh.
His only real scum case is Ace... and he made it *after* Ace was catching a load of flak and was gonna be pushed today. Other than that I don't even know who he thinks is scum... he's just sorta following along. Then again, I thought the exact same about damdred and he flipped town. At least in this case I also have rsoul and rayn thinking there was something off about his play tho, and they do know him well, apparently.
If you don't know who I think is scum you're lying about having read my filter.
Interesting. Maybe quote your own filter where you scumread someone other than BH, and today Ace.
On March 09 2019 16:22 Rels wrote: Meapak has made a lot of small attacks against a lot of players, I don't know if I like it, it's not strong but it feels a little bit opportunist
On March 09 2019 16:33 Rels wrote: oh yeah I remember what I hated about MZ EOD2, I don't remember who bought it up but someone did earlier. When he came back, the lynch was always gonna be HF or BH, and he said he had a HF townread and a BH nullread; but he didn't want to commit to one of the wagon, repeating he "wanted to lynch scum". That screams someone knowing the vote is TvT and not wanting to be a part of it.
Like this post represents everything I'm talking about:
On March 08 2019 08:35 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On March 08 2019 08:19 Blazinghand wrote: TBH I'd lynch either of those guys tho
I'm voting for scum. I have repeatedly given my reasons for not wanting to lynch HF and I have no idea which way to read you, people martyr both as town and scum and your play since then has been 50/50. If the jubjubs are gonna lynch between you and HF I honestly don't care which of you goes. My vote however is gonna be on the people I'm very confident are scum.
????
Then he got super defensive when people attacked him for it.
On March 09 2019 16:55 Rels wrote: Jock is always town if he's really a newbie. If he's playing that well as a scum he's lying about this game being his first. Interacting with people, making cases, committing reads in the HF vs BH lynch ... the bad thing is that he's using a lot of easy / bad reasonning to scumread people, but as it's his first game it's totally normal.
On March 10 2019 13:27 Rels wrote: just finished Wiggles filter and I think he's alright. He's been consistent with his activity and reads, he looks like he's having fun with his radio show (please continue it's pretty to read too ) but is not using it to hide behind RP to not play. Not the strongest read but I think he's town. If anyone thinks he's scum I would like to know why
I think you read my filter with a "Rels is scum" mindset and that blinded you.
I read that on MZ, but I guess I read it differently, as calling one thing scummy doesn't seem to go anywhere.
Chezinu, well, is being chezinu. The fact that you think you're scumming him for being chezinu is well, bleh.
Townreading people doesn't count. Especially innocent children like jock. The fact that you couldn't townread BH for the same reasons is troubling tho.
On March 11 2019 03:01 Acrofales wrote: Well, Rels's filter is really blehhh.
His only real scum case is Ace... and he made it *after* Ace was catching a load of flak and was gonna be pushed today. Other than that I don't even know who he thinks is scum... he's just sorta following along. Then again, I thought the exact same about damdred and he flipped town. At least in this case I also have rsoul and rayn thinking there was something off about his play tho, and they do know him well, apparently.
If you don't know who I think is scum you're lying about having read my filter.
Interesting. Maybe quote your own filter where you scumread someone other than BH, and today Ace.
sure
On March 09 2019 16:22 Rels wrote: Meapak has made a lot of small attacks against a lot of players, I don't know if I like it, it's not strong but it feels a little bit opportunist
On March 09 2019 16:33 Rels wrote: oh yeah I remember what I hated about MZ EOD2, I don't remember who bought it up but someone did earlier. When he came back, the lynch was always gonna be HF or BH, and he said he had a HF townread and a BH nullread; but he didn't want to commit to one of the wagon, repeating he "wanted to lynch scum". That screams someone knowing the vote is TvT and not wanting to be a part of it.
Like this post represents everything I'm talking about:
On March 08 2019 08:35 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On March 08 2019 08:19 Blazinghand wrote: TBH I'd lynch either of those guys tho
I'm voting for scum. I have repeatedly given my reasons for not wanting to lynch HF and I have no idea which way to read you, people martyr both as town and scum and your play since then has been 50/50. If the jubjubs are gonna lynch between you and HF I honestly don't care which of you goes. My vote however is gonna be on the people I'm very confident are scum.
????
Then he got super defensive when people attacked him for it.
On March 10 2019 13:06 Rels wrote: I have no doubt Chez is scum after that move. He tried to sneakily suggests he's hatter and got slammed hard
then if I really have to prove I'm not "coasting by" today, here is me defending two people that are generally being scumread
On March 09 2019 16:55 Rels wrote: Jock is always town if he's really a newbie. If he's playing that well as a scum he's lying about this game being his first. Interacting with people, making cases, committing reads in the HF vs BH lynch ... the bad thing is that he's using a lot of easy / bad reasonning to scumread people, but as it's his first game it's totally normal.
On March 10 2019 13:27 Rels wrote: just finished Wiggles filter and I think he's alright. He's been consistent with his activity and reads, he looks like he's having fun with his radio show (please continue it's pretty to read too ) but is not using it to hide behind RP to not play. Not the strongest read but I think he's town. If anyone thinks he's scum I would like to know why
I think you read my filter with a "Rels is scum" mindset and that blinded you.
I read that on MZ, but I guess I read it differently, as calling one thing scummy doesn't seem to go anywhere.
Where should it go? I've read his filter and thought it was scummy for the 2 reasons I've said. But Ace is the person I want to lynch first, and Ace is getting lynched.
On March 11 2019 03:31 Acrofales wrote: Chezinu, well, is being chezinu. The fact that you think you're scumming him for being chezinu is well, bleh.
That's not true. I usually never know how to read people that RP like Slam and Chez, and I kinda just hope their alignments become known by other means like them being roles, or being vigd / checked, etc. But here, Chez tries to sneakily say he's hatter without really saying it. It's an obvious red flag for me, and not at all similar to the other RP he's done
On March 11 2019 03:31 Acrofales wrote: Townreading people doesn't count. Especially innocent children like jock. The fact that you couldn't townread BH for the same reasons is troubling tho.
??? What same reasons ? 1 - my read on Jock mainly comes from the fact that it's his first game, that doesn't apply to BH 2 - my scumread on BH came from his martyring D1, that doesn't apply to Jock ???
BH had a very obvious town post (his post when he thought he was being lynched). He was as close to an innocent child as you can get. Yet you persisted in scumreading him all through D2 (you weren't the only one tho).
Bah. Looked over his filter. The only strong stance he took was that vivax and BC were town, and HF is scum. Not very convincing for a veteran player of his reputation. I'm ok with killing him.
Anyway. About sentinel: he claims he read his role PM to avert the lunch. And his giant list post combined with his VT claim worked for that. But doing that is not indicative of alignment. He'd want to get out from pressure regardless of alignment.
The rest of his play has been bleh. So many ppl have been able to hide in the HF/BH stuff. Some legitimately, some scummily. I'd put sentinel in the latter group, but haven't had time to sort out the earlier discrepancy I was mulling on earlier. Something in his filter didn't make sense if he had read his role PM when he claimed VT. But can't figure it out anymore.
On March 11 2019 07:42 Tumblewood wrote: all i'm saying is we're up to at least 3, all we need is 4 more, and there are probably 4 people active who don't like slam
I PM'd Kita for clarification on the traitor role, but he won't say more than in the flip post. Mafiascum has this, which doesn't really help at all sure to the caveat:
Normal Guidelines A Traitor is considered Normal on mafiascum.net, as long as it:
is Mafia-aligned knows the identities of all of the Mafia team identity is not known by the Mafia team, although they should know a Traitor exists cannot be recruited to join the rest of the Mafia team, and (unless Bulletproof) is killed if shot is endgamed if all other Mafia are dead gives a "guilty" result to Cops, an "innocent" result to Gunsmiths, and a "Traitor" result to Role Cops
If you want a Traitor that cannot be killed by its team, make it a Bulletproof Traitor. (A Traitor that investigates as though they were town is not Normal, because the Godfather role is not Normal.) Roles like this should return full names (e.g. Bulletproof Traitor) to a Role Cop investigating them.
On this forum, godfather is considered normal, so who knows what a "normal" traitor is here: we're following Kita's playbook, which seems like a bastard version of "normal".
Anyway, seem dangerous to do any association reading for sentinel.
As for my role, Ace and mocsta are being idiotic. In what works does mafia ever want to shoot inactives? So either you think I'm lying about how my role works, or you aren't using your brain. Mocsta, Ace, do you think I'm lying about my role?
@rels: thanks for posting the transcripts. I'm still not sure why you got so angry about rsoul posting your role. You didn't use the QT much before she blurted it out in the thread and this seems like a totally cool reason for telling the chat:
rsoultinPerson was signed in when posted 03-07-2019 04:05 AM ET (US) Yeah, so you should check the thread. I told everyone about the QT and the way you've handled things makes me think you're scum -shrugs- It really feels like you just expected me to townread you off this. I gave you a lot of time to start talking about literally anything unprompted and only your grack read sort of comes close. 49
What exactly made you so upset? You say betrayed, but I don't see how. Care to elaborate on why the QT being outed even affects at all how you can use it?
63 Rels 03-07-2019 03:07 PM ET (US) but IDK it was my role I wanted to create a secret town club and win the last game of TL like that. Would have been awesome
Anyway, if this is somehow a scum tool for finding sentinel, rels' use seems weird. Did he think rsoultin might be the traitor? Don't really see why from her filter. So if this was the scum tool for that he either went and used it in his own way, or was playing badly.
I'm back to this being a pretty townie use of the neighborizer role. Still not too sure of Rels, but the exchange we had yesterday made me lean more towards town, and I don't think the use of the QT was somehow scummy either.
On March 11 2019 13:56 Tictock wrote: I think Meap or Wiggles would be fantastic follow up lynches tomorrow. For sure one if not both of them are mafia.
On March 11 2019 13:46 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Ace, you know Acro explained his claimed role, right?
On March 10 2019 06:04 Acrofales wrote:
On March 10 2019 05:59 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Acro, are you able to share the details of your role?
Is it based on a list of lurkers that you're just given, or were you told the criteria for inclusion on the list?
Yeah, sure. I had a half-baked plan of making ppl think I had more bullets and got weird lists, to make scum RB and shoot me, but messed it up already and their RB is dead.
I had 1 bullet and could shoot anyone who didn't vote it had less then 5 posts during the day. I whined to the hosts that I couldn't use it n1 as nobody met the requirements, but n2 it was more useful. Judging by the last post I should have shot the brown. I haven't gotten to why yet, tho :p
I think that "it" in the bolded is supposed to be an "or". Assuming that came in the role PM, which I'm guessing because of Acro saying he complained about it N1 because he couldn't shoot, then the choice of shots on N2 is completely not alignment indicative, but are simply the people who didn't vote or had under 5 posts. The role doesn't appear to care about alignment, just activity. In that sense I read it a lot more as a mod tool to handle inactivity by putting it in a player's hands as compared to simply mod-killing immediately. It's not inherently pro or anti town, looking at it that way.
Now, if you want to make a case that Acro's not telling the truth about the role somehow, then that's another thing. Seems like a really weird thing to lie about though, as either alignment, so I don't think that's happening here. On the flip side, I don't see having the role as alignment indicative, could easily be given to scum or town, so I wouldn't use it to influence my read. Same thing goes for some of the other claims.
I know he explained it. I just don't see how it fits into the game. And yes I made that case earlier, as his role claim isn't the only thing about him that makes him a prime suspect.
On March 11 2019 14:12 Oatsmaster wrote: Like acro completely didn’t need to claim here, his shot was anonymous and yeah cmon. Ace proposing nonsense and not thinking this through is super scummy
On March 11 2019 14:20 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Our brave Dead Zone Show intern took this call a few minutes ago:
On March 11 2019 13:58 Mocsta wrote: Deadzone wiggles.
I would contest its a scum-favoured role. Even if the entire scum team did not vote *OR* posted less than 5 times. There would probably be a higher total of townies that are also eligible.
Thats the beauty, it sounds so good at face value. If it was this great, TL would have implemented the role as a deterrent yonks ago.
Anyhow, if you wouldnt use it to influence your read, where do you currently stand on acro?
Coming in to D3, your hosts have been reading Acrofales as being a contributing member of our green society. We did not care as much for his play today (D3), but he did tell us beforehand that he would be spending the weekend sailing. We expect that he was undertaking this boating trip for pleasure, and not to drop someone off for a long swim in cement shoes.
Our current bomb threat situation remains unresolved. The madman Chezinu is still on the loose, but the manhunt for him did have a happy outcome as Liquidia police snagged wanted criminal [UoN]Sentinel. Sentinel had been a longtime member of Liquidia town council until he was recently indicted on charges of accepting bribes from local criminal elements and embezzling public funds. A warrant was put out for his arrest, but he had managed to evade arrest until his recent discovery. Liquidia will surely be a safer place with Sentinel off the streets.
On March 11 2019 17:08 Acrofales wrote: I PM'd Kita for clarification on the traitor role, but he won't say more than in the flip post. Mafiascum has this, which doesn't really help at all sure to the caveat:
Normal Guidelines A Traitor is considered Normal on mafiascum.net, as long as it:
is Mafia-aligned knows the identities of all of the Mafia team identity is not known by the Mafia team, although they should know a Traitor exists cannot be recruited to join the rest of the Mafia team, and (unless Bulletproof) is killed if shot is endgamed if all other Mafia are dead gives a "guilty" result to Cops, an "innocent" result to Gunsmiths, and a "Traitor" result to Role Cops
If you want a Traitor that cannot be killed by its team, make it a Bulletproof Traitor. (A Traitor that investigates as though they were town is not Normal, because the Godfather role is not Normal.) Roles like this should return full names (e.g. Bulletproof Traitor) to a Role Cop investigating them.
On this forum, godfather is considered normal, so who knows what a "normal" traitor is here: we're following Kita's playbook, which seems like a bastard version of "normal".
Anyway, seem dangerous to do any association reading for sentinel.
As for my role, Ace and mocsta are being idiotic. In what works does mafia ever want to shoot inactives? So either you think I'm lying about how my role works, or you aren't using your brain. Mocsta, Ace, do you think I'm lying about my role?
If one of the currently inactive players is a future threat ie not currently posting because of real life things but will do so in the future.
Hmm, ok. And you think I shot damdred for that reason?
On March 11 2019 20:05 Ace wrote: Wiggles, Oats. I'd like to see your comments on the rest of the ideas instead of singling out only the role claim aspect. Specifically two parts:
1.) What do you think about the Town claiming this much KP in the absence of other roles as of now?
Go back to Night 1. We now know there was a scum roleblocker in BC. Some combination of 2 KP hit iamperfection or he was RB + shot. Either way it shows a concerted effort to get this guy out of the game.
Here are his posts referencing people as Scum on Day 1 that are sill alive:
Onegu
On March 05 2019 08:55 iamperfection wrote:
On March 05 2019 08:54 Onegu wrote: Aright LS..
##Vote: Rsoultin
obvious mafia what are you doing
On March 05 2019 09:44 iamperfection wrote:
On March 05 2019 09:43 Onegu wrote: Dont vigi me I know I didnt do much but I am green!
you need to die too
On March 05 2019 23:49 iamperfection wrote: Onegu not caring about the lynch coming back and really only talking about Raoul is extremely scummy. Probably because he is scum
Vivax
On March 06 2019 03:11 iamperfection wrote:
On March 06 2019 02:59 Vivax wrote: Basically he let BH off the hook way too easily for it to be town iamp.
"if BH doesn't get lynched TL mafia is ded" to '"Let's vote the guy who's going to kill Palmar"
Why are you misrepresenting what happened. I screamed at every player in the game to vote bh.
It's clear I'm town and you not being able to see that is extremely confusing as we've played a few games together. My play is basically the opposite of my scum play in this game
Now of these 2 Vivax would be my best guess. Partially because my Day 1/2 had me pushing HF, and I ended up Townreading BC and Vivax out of confirmation bias. BC flipped scum. Vivax flipping scum for "agreeing" with my arguments wouldn't be surprising at all.
However, there's a 3rd player that's really, really confusing.
On March 06 2019 03:54 iamperfection wrote:
On March 06 2019 03:51 Acrofales wrote: I mean, BH is gonna have to die or we're just gonna have this conversation til the end of days. But
On March 05 2019 08:59 Blazinghand wrote: Well, sorry for the poor performance guys. Exo is either more perceptive than most of you, or scum looking for post flip cred, for talking to me like I'm town. Same with Ace.
I really didn't expect the thread to balloon so much. Thabks for killing me early, this is a good plynch. Good luck everyone, and have fun!
This while useless seems like a VT who doesn't want to play, and not like a scummer who doesn't want to play. He's at least dropping *some* kinda info there.
Note that this was pretty much simultaneous with Conversions shenanigans, so unless they are scum together (a possibility that we shouldn't disregard and why we need the flip), BH really thought he was getting lynched here, and this is his "last words".
He says nothing in that post what are you talking about. What are you reading
On March 06 2019 03:45 iamperfection wrote:
On March 06 2019 03:44 Acrofales wrote:
On March 06 2019 03:35 iamperfection wrote:
On March 06 2019 03:34 Acrofales wrote:
On March 06 2019 03:14 iamperfection wrote:
On March 06 2019 03:11 WaveofShadow wrote:
On March 06 2019 02:58 Vivax wrote:
On March 06 2019 02:51 WaveofShadow wrote: In case it got buried,vivax you need to explain why Iamp is top scum read. I'm not finding much aside from one recent post.
If I had a word to describe town iamp, it'd be something like crusader against bullshit.
He played the part pretty well yesterday when BH came back into the thread, but not for long enough to warrant that name since he decided to kill Palmar by voting HF over himself instead.
Well that's....pretty damning? hmm. Ok yeah going to need something from iamp on this. I can't for the life of me understand why he voted for HF.
How has nobody brought this up yet? Jesus.
Scummy post from you though. seems like you know hf is mafia?
When did you get so bad at this game?
Trying to bait me?
Well. You made a big bad case on me. That was bad. Then you helped get Palmar killed for bad reasons. I even told you I went back and read his filter trying to read it as scum and couldn't, yet you just persisted and nailed him to the cross (holyflare might have dragged him up there, but you sure as shit helped hammer the nails in).
So if you're town, please stop being bad. We kinda need the help.
I don't trust you
And of course, iamp's only vote
On March 04 2019 03:57 iamperfection wrote: ##mayor: iamperfection ##vote: acrofales
Now this is where things are pretty crazy. There are 3 things that may be purely circumstance that paint Acro as scum.
1.) Iamp's posts and vote. Of course he was town in retrospect, but I really do believe he died for being correct about someone. The only thing that saves Acro imo is Scum having 4 conditional KP is wild. He could instead be 3rd party but let's put that on the backburner for now.
2.) On Day 2 someone asked me to read their case on Acro. I didn't find it convincing but I do faintly remember it being spoken about by others. Specifically I think it was rayne who asked me to comment on it but I didn't. Acro being anti-town and wanting them dead isn't out of the realm of possibility.
3.) That role claim. I just can't get around it existing in that form if it possibly end up targeting only Town players. One of chez/Pandain would have to be scum if his role is true. And I'd expect Acro to push one super hard off the damdred flip.
It could be purely circumstance that Acro falls into the puzzle like this but I doubt it. And reading his posts Day 2 and Day 3 they don't really scream scum that hard. Tricky shit :D
You calling it effort seems weird, as I don't see anywhere that Lamp even hinted at being a veteran. I am exceptionally bad at sniffing out blues (I just don't pay attention to that shit at all as either alignment), but have gone over his filter a few times looking for stuff where that might be hidden in plain sight, but I got nothing. So either: scum had some information that I don't (e.g. there's a second neighborizer that somehow got Lamp to trust him, or really did do a most excellent bluesnipe), or, and more likely, they just got lucky: RBing your kills is relatively standard practice, so they had a 1/3 chance of RBing the veteran.
There is a very wacko outside chance that Tumblewood is an SK and also wanted to kill Lamp, and they just got lucky with the stacking KP. But Tumblewood's claim doesn't look like an SK, as he will have to hide his KP from that point onwards, and it just seems like a really dumb play to claim vig without any reason. Only worth revisiting this if scum has too much KP going forward.
That said, I do agree that a player-controlled modkill (lurker vig), a normal vig, a dayvig and a hatter is probably too much KP for town, so something is weird here.
Please let us know if you notice any mistakes. The deadline is Sunday, Mar 10 11:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00), which is in .
That is at the deadline. That is a huge shift and I think we can definitely get some information from there. There wasn't really anything new on sentinel, per se. My general "feel" of the thread was that nobody seemed particularly keen on lynching Ace or Chez, so we just kinda got a last-minute wagon going on sentinel, starting with Pandain putting him forward with this: + Show Spoiler [Pandain starting the mood change in th…] +
On March 11 2019 04:53 Pandain wrote: The crux of the Ace case is that he voted HF as an attempt to push him for a lynch the following day, and that he is not as active as other players.
The problem with the first point is that Ace was actively arguing both nights for HF to be vigi'd. If you are saying that this was all a "set-up", then he was actively trying to ruin that same setup. I also don't believe the second point to be important. I think he's made great points the whole time, and has been a hell of a lot more obvious and useful than other people with far greater post counts.
I also don't really agree with the Chezinu lynch. I'll admit I can never really read the guy, but you guys are lynching him over the counter claim right? How do we know he's not actually a mad hatter? Is two mad hatters that crazy? It's pretty obvious to me with three vig's and a backup cop that this is not a normal game. Kita probably wanted to go out with a bang and two mad hatters would be perfect with that.
Chezinu definitely could be scum, but he's not the first person I would lynch.
I'm still going through other filters based on the votes the past two days and will be suggesting someone. Anyone else uncomfortable with these votes and want to start a new one?
Here are the votes from when the holyflare-palmar mayor was closest. At this point, it was known that HF wanted to lynch Palmar. I went through everyone's filter on holyflare's wagon, and was looking specifically for someone who voted for HF but then later criticized and wanted to lynch him for doing exactly what he said he would do.
Of these, Alakaslam, Ace, Sentinel, all are guilty of this. This is highly highly suspicious, contradictory, and makes perfect sense from a mafia perspective. I think we should be lynching out of these three.
I'm giving Ace a pass for the moment because he heavily argued for HF to be vigi'd during both nights, and otherwise is posting pretty townie (even if infrequent).
I would put heavy bets on Alakaslam and Sentinel both being mafia.
Furthermore, Sentinel is particuarly guilty of: 1. Being pretty active day 1 but never commenting on if he thought Palmar is scum or not. Considering that he is voting for HF, that he himself had different scum reads but never tried to convince HF, this is a huge red flag. 2.
I think at this point lynching HF would be more beneficial to town based on at least D1/early N1 actions. I haven't been around for a lot of the last two days but it seems HF was outright malicious whereas BH has kinda been playing dumb. So I'm voting HF.
##Vote: Holyflare
Sentinel calls HF "outright malicious", when he himself voted for him and never tried to change his view. Huge cognitive dissonance.
3. Had a huge town read on Ace last night and then comes in, votes Ace, and leaves immediately. After getting called out he says he will "explain later." Any townie would at least write something about why they did a complete 180; from my perspective he messed up with his fake viewpoints and didn't know how to justify.
Some credit/blame for the mood swing also goes to Wiggles, because he also didn't want to lynch Ace or Chez.
I'd say that the way this wagon went down would make Pandain confirmed town if Sentinel was something other than traitor. As is, we need two separate lines of analysis. See below for thoughts. First we only have the timeline events.
After Pandain makes the case and votes, things go quite fast, with really only one vote going the other way. It's worth noting that the first votes are NOT people voting for Ace, but just generally undecideds.
Noteable events:
Ace makes a long rambly post to save his ass, and it ends with wanting to lynch sentinel... who gained traction in the time he took to write the post:
On March 11 2019 06:35 Ace wrote: Lol I just finished that long post, checked vote thread, and see 3 ppl voted Sent before me. Fuck if he flips Town I'm gonna look scummy :/
Didn't flip town, but flipped "maybe scum didn't know he was scum too". Timestamp on Pandain's vote: 05:46. Timestamp on Ace's long post: 06:34, aka 48 minutes later. Did it take Ace 48 minutes to write this post? Or was he reading thread sentiment and going whatever which way to save his bacon? Good question. I don't have an answer. He was definitely not writing the case at the start of the wagon tho, as this is already 5 minutes after Pandain makes his case and votes:
On March 11 2019 05:51 Ace wrote: Wow a guy goes afk for a day and there's a lynch train
Rels, you're reading me way off. Iirc your first point of contention with me had to do with HF. I clearly admitted I read him wrong before he died.
I also think you should be thinking about the motives behind those NKs. I had no serious heat on me from Rayn/Wos/Rsoul/ (the 3 non vigi shots). Even if they were HFs defenders as scum I would still need to convince people to lynch him next day. I did not. Once I saw the BC flip I instantly townread HF.
In fact I think if anyone looks bad for those nightkills, it's you. You had QT interaction with 2 of them did you not?
TT is the first who is not an undecided, but already had his vote on Ace to start swaying the other way:
On March 11 2019 06:45 Tictock wrote: Anyone else around to rock the boat on today's snooze fest Chez v Ace lynch and wanna join this Sential train for Town Glory?
The reasoning seems... funny. He just got into the thread after earlier agreeing to lynch ace, and calls it a snooze fest, which he wants to rock the boat on. I did go further back through his filter and he was definitely scumreading sentinel, so it's not outright scummy, but it is weird reasoning here.
DF is the only guy to flip the other way in the middle of this:
On March 11 2019 06:55 darthfoley wrote: Bah bah black sheep mode initiated. Don’t have the energy or time to think for myself this cycle. Acro I follow your lead wheresver it take me
#Vote: Ace
Note that he doesn't actually do that: he only follows me onto Ace, not when I hop to sentinel a bit later. Really scummy? Or really lazy town? Gotta reread DF.
Two contrary players try to get a slam train on the road: tumblewood and sicklucker. Not quite sure what's going on with that. Tumblewood consolidates before day's end, and I don't actually mind this reasoning:
On March 11 2019 07:11 Tumblewood wrote: + i think there is a lot to learn from a chaotic deadline. i will consolidate if it's not happening and there are less than ten minutes left, but fuck it i'm voting + Show Spoiler +
gonna feel like such a scrub if he's town
Sicklucker, however, is a different story: he also gives up on slam, but still shows he really doesn't want to lynch either ace or sentinel (despite being on the ACE wagon earlier when it was Ace vs Chezinu)... and instead hops off from wanting to kill slam to voting right alongside him on an irrelevant wagon. Very weird behaviour from SL here. Will filter dive him before night's end, but this voting behaviour looks like scum to me.
The hammer belongs to LightningStrike:
On March 11 2019 07:31 LightningStrike wrote: fuck it witching to Sent I was getting cold feet on Ace dunno if it's because of his reputation or what. Sent is the better lynch. ##Unvote ##Vote: [UoN]Sentinel
The reasoning is very similar to mine just a few minutes earlier, so gonna call him town for this.
Vivax tries to get the Ace lynch back on the road:
On March 11 2019 07:51 Vivax wrote: It's not even about Sentinel, it's about how people like Grack and TT show a pinpoint burst of effort I haven't seen before in this game.
I don't actually mind the reasoning. Chezinu wagon is completely irrelevant at this point, and he chooses between sentinel and ace. If ace is town and scum knows sentinel is the traitor, this is a scum panic move tho. Too much wifom for me at this point to say anything much about this.
Open questions:
@Grack: mind taking your color pencils to this list you said is a town lynch:
On March 11 2019 07:01 Grackaroni wrote: If this is the wagon of a scum lynch then I'll happily take the egg on my face and adjust my reads accordingly but I really doubt it.
On March 11 2019 07:07 Pandain wrote: I'm down with lynching Slam but I think Sentinel is worse for the reasons I posted earlier. I don't think others are there quite yet.
Sent lynch will overall give us more info in the case he flips scum. Some good associative reads can probably be built.
Slam would be removing a question mark.
I'd keep my vote on Sent every time.
what do you think you will learn if sent flips town/mafia?
If Sent flips mafia then the Palmar mayor vote gives a lot of info.
Gogogo Remember we need to take both scenarios into account: scum knows sentinel is one of them, and scum has no clue who the traitor is (or even that there is one? presumably traitor does affect KP, but with this weird setup, who knows)
What do we learn from this:
1. Pandain is town. Reason: Ace and Padain are not scum together. If they were, that coordination of the lynch diversion would be a lot smoother. No way they have Pandain make a case, and then Ace makes his "huge case" half an hour later. So this makes Pandain quite confidently town, because if he's scum, and Ace isn't, there is NO POINT AT ALL in trying to divert the lynch. Ace might still be scum.
Sorry for the hard townread at night
2. The what-ifs:
Case 1: Scumteam knows sentinel is scum: This makes TT and LS quite confidently town. Even if Ace is scum, he'd have to have an important role to bother pushing the lynch from him onto another scummer. It also makes people trying to divert the wagon look like shit: DF, TW, SL are very suspect in this case. Especially DF and SL.
Case 2: Scumteam has no idea about sentinel: This one is harder, because it diverges again into two different cases: Case 2A: Ace is scum In this case, this was an opportunistic lynch, when the wagon on sentinel started forming, they used this to save their buddy. I'd especially suspect those that had stood on the sidelines up until this point: Grack and Mocsta really just sorta hopped on after hanging on other wagons all day. TT, LS and myself obviously get egg on our faces too.
Case 2B: Ace is town In this case, scum doesn't really give a shit. They might get adventurous and try to stay off both wagons, but I don't think they really give a shit. Mostly it's down to vote reasons here, and DF and SL look most suspect here.
So, will be looking a lot closer into SL and DF with what remains of the night. I also think a similar analysis for the Palmar mayor wagon is interesting and look forward to Grack doing this
On March 11 2019 23:08 Onegu wrote: Acre forgot me.
I did. I thought you weren't around at all, but you were and being a rebel for no reason. So add yourself to the wtf wagon for not obviously scummy reasons.
I also missed MZ's late vote. I figured Wiggles' double down on the hammer looked pretty townie, but no clue what to make of that MZ vote. Add him in with DF and SL for more reading.
On March 11 2019 23:16 Mocsta wrote: Nice post acro
Im a bit confused abkut tictock
Your quote and analysis doesnt marry with the conclusion?
What makes him town?
Pandain gets the sentinel wagon rolling, and people start jumping on.
45 minutes later, Ace makes a save-his-butt case on sentinel.
There are 4 possible cases here, right?
Both scum: This would be pants-on-head level coordination, where pandain sticks his neck out to save Ace's butt, and then Ace goes and echoes similar points after the wagon is already rolling. If sentinel flips town, they are now *both* under heavy suspicion. I guess they could use sentinel as a bus target to save both their butts if they knew he was scum, but why bus off Ace and onto sentinel? But even for a bus this is badly coordinated. So chance of pandain and Ace both being scum is pretty tiny.
Pandain scum and Ace town: instead of pandain just hopping on to lynch a random townie he makes a big case to either lynch a less impressive townie or bus a scum... AFTER he already did his big play to dayvig HF. He's read as town by almost everyone, so why on earth do this! Just sheep and lynch Ace for the ez win.
Pandain town, Ace scum: possible.
Pandain and Ace both town: also possible..
Conclusion: Pandain is town.
As for why I didn't put that at the top? Because I was busy analysing when I realized that and had already forgotten I had written stuff about Pandain at the top.
That bit makes sense. Although i was asking about ticktock
In the quotes u analyse his play as weird. Maybe town. Mahbe not. In thr conclusion he was put as likely town
Im wondering what part of the analysis drew u towards a more definite town read.thanks
Well, TT (and LS) only gets town points if scum knows sentinel is one of them. In that case, I don't see a reason for TT to swap wagons. I guess if Ace is a power role, and they chat about it in the QT and decide to bus the fuck out of sentinel to save ace's butt? But then you'd think TT would come in with something more forceful than his super hesitant stuff. So TT being so non-committal about his voteswitch makes sense for scum only if they think sentinel is town.
On March 03 2019 08:18 sicklucker wrote: Not sure about oats but i think its more likely people forgot how oats played mafia when hes trying. Nothing really stood out for me
Read progression please. You have insight on Oats?
Other than that, there's a few red flags in SL's filter, but overall he seems too bouncy and all over the place to be scum. I don't really know SL's scumgame at all, but I get the feeling from his filter that he's playing the town game and happy to be doing so.
On March 03 2019 11:26 Palmar wrote: So this is not a joke, I am going to do nothing but vote Sentinel until he comes in to the thread and says "I have read my role PM". Just pile votes on him because he's playing a strategy that's only advantageous to mafia.
On March 05 2019 10:20 sicklucker wrote: i feel pretty dumb voting hf for mayor now I didnt think he was killing palmar at the time which is insanely stupid in a game with so many anti towners. if marv plays good and obv town ill happily sheep him
HF was nothing if not obvious about what he was going to do. Even if you don't think he's serious, if you have a strong townread on Palmar (strong enough to mention it anyway, which is more than he did for anyone except LS... and maybe rsoul). SL was there for at least part of that push, so why is he still voting HF?
Minor red flag: has a scumread on conversion, but is all chummy with marv on N1.
Pfffffff. Not liking DF. He started off okay, but he doesn't actually do much. He's exactly active enough to fly under the radar.
Big bleehhhhhhh. Add the throw-away vote by sheeping me for no apparent reason, and we've got ourselves someone who is not caring about the game at all.
On March 12 2019 05:02 Acrofales wrote: @pandain: you have time to look at DF's filter?
I'll look at slam. Gotta do MZ first tho.
His filter is huge and full of spam. You will get lost. Just pay attention to my points. It's obvious tells and he needs to he lynched.
Unfortunately no im literally leaving in a minute. Maybe I will be back in time. From memory he's basically inactive. Good possible lynch but short of a bombshell in his filter wouldn't lynch him tomorrow
DF's filter is 4 pages long and you call that huge? My filter must be a size of a T-Rex for you than lol......
Yeah, so MZ isn't around. Shame. He's probably scum. Not because he's afk right now, but because he:
1. He was active D1 and his spreadsheet looked really good, but he hasn't updated it.
2. He was afk at the end of the day, but was very active immediately post-flip. Seeing as all wagons were town, town doesn't want to rock the boat. Being "afk" is pretty safe for that.
3. He hard town read HF and BH, but never really made an effort to push anything else.
4. Did nothing all the next day, came in right at the end and threw his vote on sentinel at the end of everything and his vote barely mattered anymore.
Behavior is pretty typical of lurkscum. Would lynch.
Sooo... haven't reread anybody I scumread yesterday, but wiggles started looking better and better during the day. Fecalfeast claimed hatter. Haven't sorted that or chezinu's similar claim out yet. Town doesn't have two hatters, so that's a pretty important task for tomorrow.
At first glance, FF's claim is more specific and more credible so far, but it needs a lot more digging.
Tentatively, Id say scum are: MZ DF Chezinu
Maybe scum: FF Ace
Null/didn't read: Slam Onegu Tubesock Exo Wiggles Mocsta
On March 12 2019 03:54 Vivax wrote: I think Tubesock is highly suspicious just for the fact that nobody, and I mean literally nobody IIRC, has brought him up for lynch.
On March 12 2019 03:54 Vivax wrote: It's like he doesn't exist, he's in that sweet blind lurker spot.
On March 12 2019 03:55 Vivax wrote: If I were mafia against a town Tubesock, I'd push the living shit out of him provided I'd actually be posting as mafia.
Yeah this is legit. I completely forgot about him as well.
##Vote: Tubesock
What's hilarious is that he doesn't appear in most reads lists.
The only point in his favour speaking for being straight out not able to play is the non-voting I guess.
Acro looking at your reads list, why did you demote TS from town to null? I remember you speaking up for him.
I did and I may again. He dropped down to null, because I don't remember a single thing he did during D3 and didn't reread.
The NKs are weird because it is leaving a bunch of confirmed blues alive. And if shooting townies for the sake of it, I don't understand why Vivax or Oats outlived TT. I would put myself in both categories, so was absolutely expecting to die. Maybe scum are trying to dodge a medic protection? But TW was also a very likely target for a medic.
I'll read some more filters, including TS. For now, I like
On March 12 2019 18:37 Onegu wrote: I hate to say this.
Pandain looks a bit better after ace flipped green...
Is it possible he would move the wagon off of ace onto sent. Sure but not sure why he would... Only thing is chez was still I think even in votes when he made his case. But then to shoot ace... If he is scum that is a fucking next lvl play and I give props to him.
Here was my problem with pandain. Shooting HF so early in the day was like really bad for a townie. As town you want to balance getting as much info as possible vs giving town enough time to react. I think 24 hours into the day is the best option, not 5 minutes into the day. And after those NK HF looked alot more townie. I guess town can make a bad shot but meh. I will move pandain up to null/light town for now...
Chez has to flip today boys. We need to know his alignment. We need to know what that wagon looked like.
No. We need to lunch scum. Maybe we need to lunch you, you sneaky lurker
On March 12 2019 18:37 Onegu wrote: I hate to say this.
Pandain looks a bit better after ace flipped green...
Is it possible he would move the wagon off of ace onto sent. Sure but not sure why he would... Only thing is chez was still I think even in votes when he made his case. But then to shoot ace... If he is scum that is a fucking next lvl play and I give props to him.
Here was my problem with pandain. Shooting HF so early in the day was like really bad for a townie. As town you want to balance getting as much info as possible vs giving town enough time to react. I think 24 hours into the day is the best option, not 5 minutes into the day. And after those NK HF looked alot more townie. I guess town can make a bad shot but meh. I will move pandain up to null/light town for now...
Chez has to flip today boys. We need to know his alignment. We need to know what that wagon looked like.
No. We need to lunch scum. Maybe we need to lunch you, you sneaky lurker
Im here... Not lurking...
Insofar as I have seen, your main push on Chez came from misinterpreting my role. Me explaining how it worked ended with you still saying Chez is scum for non-definite reasons.
Now I still have no fucking idea what the hell alignment the brown one is this game, but I really don't trust your intentions right now.
On March 12 2019 18:37 Onegu wrote: I hate to say this.
Pandain looks a bit better after ace flipped green...
Is it possible he would move the wagon off of ace onto sent. Sure but not sure why he would... Only thing is chez was still I think even in votes when he made his case. But then to shoot ace... If he is scum that is a fucking next lvl play and I give props to him.
Here was my problem with pandain. Shooting HF so early in the day was like really bad for a townie. As town you want to balance getting as much info as possible vs giving town enough time to react. I think 24 hours into the day is the best option, not 5 minutes into the day. And after those NK HF looked alot more townie. I guess town can make a bad shot but meh. I will move pandain up to null/light town for now...
Chez has to flip today boys. We need to know his alignment. We need to know what that wagon looked like.
No. We need to lunch scum. Maybe we need to lunch you, you sneaky lurker
Im here... Not lurking...
Insofar as I have seen, your main push on Chez came from misinterpreting my role. Me explaining how it worked ended with you still saying Chez is scum for non-definite reasons.
Now I still have no fucking idea what the hell alignment the brown one is this game, but I really don't trust your intentions right now.
Right now I think its really doubtful there are 2 mad hatters. Other then that I think he needs to flip for info on the wagons yesterday.
Why is Chez the fake hatter then? Also, they claimed different roles. In fact, I'm not sure Chez claimed hatter at all. His claim was weird. FF claimed a pretty traditional, coherent hatter and I intuitively trust counterclaims more, because scum prefer not to be in 1:1 situations until lylo.
But this game has been very weird. I definitely want to hear more from Chez. I don't want to lynch him for more information on the wagons, which is the retarded reason people killed BH. Let's NOT do that again. We kill scum today.
Darth Foley and Meapack look a lot worse than chezinu. And looking into tubesock and slam today too.
On March 12 2019 18:37 Onegu wrote: I hate to say this.
Pandain looks a bit better after ace flipped green...
Is it possible he would move the wagon off of ace onto sent. Sure but not sure why he would... Only thing is chez was still I think even in votes when he made his case. But then to shoot ace... If he is scum that is a fucking next lvl play and I give props to him.
Here was my problem with pandain. Shooting HF so early in the day was like really bad for a townie. As town you want to balance getting as much info as possible vs giving town enough time to react. I think 24 hours into the day is the best option, not 5 minutes into the day. And after those NK HF looked alot more townie. I guess town can make a bad shot but meh. I will move pandain up to null/light town for now...
Chez has to flip today boys. We need to know his alignment. We need to know what that wagon looked like.
No. We need to lunch scum. Maybe we need to lunch you, you sneaky lurker
Im here... Not lurking...
Insofar as I have seen, your main push on Chez came from misinterpreting my role. Me explaining how it worked ended with you still saying Chez is scum for non-definite reasons.
Now I still have no fucking idea what the hell alignment the brown one is this game, but I really don't trust your intentions right now.
Right now I think its really doubtful there are 2 mad hatters. Other then that I think he needs to flip for info on the wagons yesterday.
If chez flips town what does that tell us about the wagons yesterday?
It basically makes pandain confirmed town. Makes anyone on the chez wagon look bad.
Pandain is already confirmed town. Chez wasn't the lynch target by EoD, town was slowly plodding its way to an Ace (TOWN) lynch. Which would probably have put us at l/mylo today. Instead, we lynched scum and have some good prospects for more scummers.
If you want to lynch people for their voting behaviour yesterday, here are your targets:
On March 11 2019 06:55 darthfoley wrote: #Vote: Ace
On March 11 2019 07:50 Vivax wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote ace
And I'm not giving MZ a pass, because he jumped on sooo late and for such shitty reasons that it didn't matter anymore:
On March 11 2019 07:53 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: ##unvote: wiggles Vote: Sentinel
Sicklucker just looked very very weird:
On March 11 2019 07:59 sicklucker wrote: ##unvote ##vote chezinu
Of these, I still think vivax is town, and SL looks like town doing his own weird shit. DF looks even worse than he did yesterday, and MZ doesn't look any better.
On March 11 2019 10:46 Ace wrote: As of now we have these claimed roles. If any of the information is wrong let me know.
1 Normal Vigilante (1 shot) - Tumbleweed 1 Lurker Vigilante (Can only target players that had less than 5 posts previous day) - Arcofales Mad Hatter with 1 bomb - Fecalfeast Mad Hatter - Chezinu Day Vigilante - Pandain
Known roles:
Marv = Cop Trfel = Doctor Palmar = Backup Cop iamperfection = Veteran BC = Scum Roleblocker
With a closed set up we don't know role numbers, but some things we can surmise. I've stated these concerns in earlier posts but I want to keep this stuff on people's minds.
Most of my thoughts come from how I see a balanced game. This is usually from the idea that Scum doesn't really need much power in their roles to destroy the town. When I see lots of high powered Town Roles I assume scum is compensated somehow.
With what we know right now the Town has a shit ton of KP even if it's 1 shot. We have 5 KP plus the lynch. This isn't really that outlandish on the surface because we started with 36 players. But if we're walking around with that much KP look at what's missing - we've had 1 Doctor flip, and 1 cop flip. The backup cop doesn't count as an investigation role because it does nothing until the cop flips. That means in addition to veteran we've seen 2 protective roles and ONE active investigation role included with 8? total KP, 3 of which are guaranteed to hit Town and come with a role blocker.
No one has come out with any information on night investigations. I highly doubt we only had one information role so someone is holding onto something. This again gives the Town massive power vs the only known Scum role of RB.
So I just don't buy all of these claims.
Pandain's Day Vigi claim seems credible to me. Scum having a Day Vigi when they already have 3 KP doesn't match with what we know so far. I'm supposing mods know about the self-confirmation power of normal vigilantes and how shooting during the day boosts that even more.
TW hasn't been counter claimed on the BC shot. Almost confirmed town.
FF and Chez's claims can't be confirmed w/o rolecop or death lol. Both of them being hatters and Town is just wtf. But luckily these claims coincide with the problem role imo: Acro's lurker vigilante.
I've never seen this role afaik remember. When I first saw it I was like oh shit what a great concept! But then I kept thinking about it and it just doesn't seem to fit at face value. Remember, one of the issues with vigilantes is they are Town aligned but their KP can also hit Town. MAfia doesn't have this issue as they know their teammates and their KP will always hit Town.
So Acro is a Town aligned vigilante and gets to shoot people based on lurking conditions. First, the mods would have to know the issue that comes up if only Town satisfies that condition. You'd have a town aligned vigilante becoming completely anti-Town and killing teammates. Sure, they may want to give players control of dealing with lurkers and we can look at Acro as a mod tool. But, post count isn't a sub for post quality. They'd quickly realize that a potentially valuable pro-Town player would be screwed. However, this isn't the only problem with the role for me.
Damdred + Chezinu + Pandain. Those were his choices Night 2. I highly, highly doubt if this role is true it would drop only Town players into his cross hairs. It would be a strictly anti-town role and we would have to lynch him anyway unless you believe he only has 1 shot. If his role is true Acro should have thought hard about some of this and immediately railroaded Chez or Pandain. And if Pandain is town confirmed day vigilante, this means Chezinu has to be scum. Anyone believing Acro's claim should want Chezinu lynched soon.
Let's see how the night plays out and who comes out with a claim tomorrow.
I believe you are wrong about your Chezinu Role Claim. I know... he is hard to read.
On February 09 2010 16:02 Incognito wrote: Mad Hatter You may lay bombs on one player per night (maximum 2). If you are killed you will throw the switch and detonate them, killing the players (if they aren't protected by extra night lives, paramedics, or bodyguards). You may remove any number of them from players at any time during the night to get them back, but if a player is lynched with one on them while the you are still alive you lose that bomb for good. Bombs are refunded if the target is killed during the night.
Oh yeah.. it doesn't kill visitors.. does it? That would be so cool!!!
We really need to retry this end of the world game with more explosives!
None of this makes any sense. And I am averse to just lynching chez for not making sense, because it isn't *scummy* to not make sense. It's just... nonsensical.
Like. What possible reason does chez have to claim mad hatter as scum? He was under pressure, and I guess it was a claim people might believe, and especially had low chance of being counterclaimed (hatter isn't a very common role here). But then why claim some kind of bizarro hatter where he doesn't even know how it works. Chez has been around long enough to put together a believable claim, and this really wasn't it.
On March 02 2019 16:59 Tubesock wrote: I like Chez because he’s entertaining.
I would love for a couple things in this game to be true. We RNG lynch Blazinghand, and that Chezinu hasn’t played with LightningStrike and falls to the rule of LS. Although that’s just the troll in me. I think Chez and LS are townie.
This entry to the thread oozes town to me. He looks really bubbly. I know, scum can also be happy to be playing an awesome game of mafia, but this feels like town to me.
On March 03 2019 04:05 Tubesock wrote: There isn’t anyone I want to lynch.
If I were mayor I’d sheep Holyflare most likely for the 2nd lynch.
I'm thinking I'd like to lynch you!
Or are you making this guy mayor, Ace?
That’s fair. I can vote HF for mayor sure. I don’t see how you could get me wanting Ace mayor out of what I said.
You were one of the two names Ace threw out to make someone non-contributing mayor.
Figure you're reading closely enough to say what you'd do as mayor, which no one else had mentioned but Ace, but still don't want to put forward an opinion about anyone.
Reads scummy to me.
When I have a lynch target I’ll let everyone one know. Do you want an opinion from me?
Am I and Conversion your only scumreads? Who do you want for mayor and why?
This response to pressure seems very natural. Just a "let me do my thing", not getting nervous about it. Never played with tubesock before, but the "just back off mate and I'll do my scumhunting" is generally a pretty townie response to pressure.
On March 03 2019 17:10 Blazinghand wrote: Hey friends! hope everyone is doing well. I'm still catching up on page 19, it seems like we have a lot of activity which is great. I won't be going for the usual random lynch thing this time around, but I do have a suggestion that might help out if we're having trouble deciding on the lynch. Let me know if there's anything urgent I need to weigh in on as I catch up.
Well I’ll be damned
I don't RNG *every* time, heh.
Why not RNG Palmar? I know you can rig that shit.
I don't get the impression that he thinks Palmar is scum (or town. he hasn't really made up his mind either way at this point, I don't think). He mainly thinks it'd be fun to kill Palmar. However, killing town!Palmar is apparently a hobby for some here (see HF), and TS was proposing this before it was the cool thing to do.
On March 02 2019 20:33 Holyflare wrote: If anyone cares my reads align with rsoul. I think. Chez suspicious. Guy posting catch ups was it trfel? Seemed mediocre and not any revelations. Iamp piggybacking me suspicious. Don't care if I like what he's said about people non-posting. That's easy to do.
Didn't like rayn that much tbh. He seems to not be saying much but talking in walls of text and circles.
I dunno I'm sorry I'm a bit shit right now but whatever.
On March 03 2019 04:20 Holyflare wrote: Don't really get any of the rayn town reads. He's a complete non entity.
Not really a case but you did scumread him.
Wouldn't say that's a scum read. If anything it's the scummy side of null and was more an extrapolation of everyone else's mindsets on rayn than a read on him. I just didn't agree with people town reading rayn and didn't understand how they reached that conclusion when he's mediocre af.
Ok.
If Oats didn’t hilariously get your filter incorrect, or at least say all your posts were serious, would you think he’s any different than his normal grouchy mcgroucherson town self? To me his entrance where every single person in the game is scum is normal town for him. Last I saw him as scum (years ago I know) he threw out maybe 4 scumreads and was a little less abrasive. Much less wave making than this game.
This post might have some TMI. I know I didn't like Oats calling over half the game scum with no backup reasoning. Or he might just have a long history of playing with Oats and meta read him off that.
@Oats: what do you think here? Levelheaded townie with a meta read on you? Or scum buddying you here?
D2 onwards: Tube kinda just stops playing.
On March 08 2019 03:32 Tubesock wrote: I don’t see a world we can swap off BH to kill much more likely mafia and not have HF get lynched.
I have two hours of useful consciousness, so if there’s any ideas I’m game.
Votes BH for damage control. This is the problem with forcing people onto just two wagons: tube is talking about wanting to lynch Ace or me (two more townies, btw), but doesn't dare take his vote off BH or do much of anything. Is this scum just being lacadaisical because it's two town wagons? Or is it a townie scared that his main townread is gonna get wrecked? I can't tell.
And he hasn't posted for 4 days. How are we supposed to read that? I'm inclined to leave him to get modkilled or start playing again.
On March 12 2019 21:34 LightningStrike wrote: Me and Rels been talking in the QT and concluding that MZ is very likely Mafia based on the night kills. WoS scumread him Tina needed a closer look on him Rayn was scumreading him? (Don't know if he changed his read or kept the read after he said MZ is possible scum) Marv didn't say much on him Koshi was townreading him Iamp ??????? TT: Lynch into MZ and Wiggles Ace: ?????? Plus Rels been scumreading him and I agree with him on that front he’s very likely to flip scum for us. ##Unvote ##Vote: Meapak_Ziphh
On March 12 2019 21:28 Onegu wrote: Tumble, acro, and paindain all vigi? Thats alot of shots for town to fuck themselves... Like imagine if all are town and tumble missed?
I think there is a scum in there...
I don't.
The hatter claims maybe. Still gotta sort out chez vs FF claims. But the vigis seem sorted out.
On March 12 2019 22:16 sicklucker wrote: Great rels masoned the most easy to convince townie. Honestly does not say much about his alignment I would do it too. but FF didnt get shot last night so chez is confirmed mafia. I think I will jsut say this in every post untill he is dead
Why does FF not getting shot townconfirm him? Two possibilities:
1. He's mafia himself. 2. Mafia believes his claim and fears he has a bomb on one of them.
I still need to read FF's filter, but this mindless zerg onto Chez's wagon stinks. Chez looks bad. I agree. But this wagon looks awful.
On March 12 2019 22:16 sicklucker wrote: Great rels masoned the most easy to convince townie. Honestly does not say much about his alignment I would do it too. but FF didnt get shot last night so chez is confirmed mafia. I think I will jsut say this in every post untill he is dead
Why does FF not getting shot townconfirm him? Two possibilities:
1. He's mafia himself. 2. Mafia believes his claim and fears he has a bomb on one of them.
I still need to read FF's filter, but this mindless zerg onto Chez's wagon stinks. Chez looks bad. I agree. But this wagon looks awful.
But why would Mafia think FF would be lying about his bomb placement?
No. If mafia thinks FF is a townie hatter and has a bomb on a townie, he is dead. So the two reasons mafia don't shoot him are the ones above. In only one of those two is he town. So I don't see how FF living confirms him as town.
I guess add a 3rd: they just want to keep the wifom alive.
On March 12 2019 22:16 sicklucker wrote: Great rels masoned the most easy to convince townie. Honestly does not say much about his alignment I would do it too. but FF didnt get shot last night so chez is confirmed mafia. I think I will jsut say this in every post untill he is dead
Why does FF not getting shot townconfirm him? Two possibilities:
1. He's mafia himself. 2. Mafia believes his claim and fears he has a bomb on one of them.
I still need to read FF's filter, but this mindless zerg onto Chez's wagon stinks. Chez looks bad. I agree. But this wagon looks awful.
But why would Mafia think FF would be lying about his bomb placement?
No. If mafia thinks FF is a townie hatter and has a bomb on a townie, he is dead. So the two reasons mafia don't shoot him are the ones above. In only one of those two is he town. So I don't see how FF living confirms him as town.
I guess add a 3rd: they just want to keep the wifom alive.
In my catchup post I laid out 4 scenarios. I agree, FF isn’t confirmed town. I think the most likely scenarios is he is, and Chezinu is mafia. I don’t think FF being town and mafia not shooting him because they think he lied about putting his bomb on Chezinu. There’s no reason for FF to lie about it as town and no reason for mafia to think he would be lying.
He only claimed the bomb post-flip tho. But I agree with you that it's the obvious play. I'm also trying to make sense of chezinu at all. His whole play since the start of D3 has been a blue-claim and then 100% defense.
That said, unless we have other reasons for believing chezinu is scum (and I'm not saying there aren't: his filter is all RP and there were town voices at the start of the game calling him out that there was something off about his RP), I'm not sure we're not in the scenario where FF is scum and chez is town. I'm quite sure we're not in the scenario where both are town.
FF's scumlist (other than chezinu) was:
1. Ace 2. Me 3. LS
Ace flipped town. I'm town, and LS is very likely town. So if FF is town and chez is town, they had to have a VERY good reason for wanting to kill TT to not take out 2 townies by shooting FF.
But FF could very well be mafia doing some bizarre 1:1 play. I've seen it done before. Most notably, Risen in Chrono trigger mafia completely randomly claimed parity cop on me and a townie (I was 3P), giving rise to the most bizarre part of that game (well, other than the scum resurrection at the end). Although at least parity cop is a 2:1 if you play your cards right.
On March 12 2019 23:46 Onegu wrote: Also I found my post where I learned to read slam
No, my meta read is good on slam rsoultins is bad. Count how many times he has said chupazi, Svengali, or hijole this game(after day post) multiply by (5-day #) then subtract he post count (including pregame) if you are in the negative he is scum. In the positive he is town.
Hijole sson (you forgot sson) you see not with the eyes of CHUPAZI, forsooth this can be gamed so easily and would give me the power of Svengali over everyone
The blessing of the eyes causes people to trust in the Wisdom of the Crowds which distrusts this condition
This post doesn't count.
It's like how chezinu's "seal of townieness" only works as long as people are willing to believe he won't fuck over his own town meta for a single (last) game as scum.
The moment you are super self-aware of your "meta" tells, you try to copy them as scum.
The reason the "seal of townieness" worked was because people were willing to fuck over their team, and just get lynched in any game they were scum, in order to be able to use their "confirmed town" meta play when town. It was, of course, a total cop-out and not quite sure what the site rules said about such play, but it only works if you never post it as scum, and it definitely shouldn't be believable in this "last game".
HF: Moved off: Slam, BC Moved on: Mocsta, [UoN]Sentinel, Pandain, sicklucker, raynpelikoneet, Fecalfeast, iamperfection, Damdred, ExO_, Trfel
Palmar: Moved off: Mocsta Moved on: Conversion, Alakaslam, LightningStrike, BC, Blazinghand
Seems obvious that BC didn't want dirty hands with a Palmar kill. And sentinel is obviously self-preservation. But I don't really know what to make of the rest.
From the general behaviour, my gut says that scum don't know sentinel is scum and aren't trying to protect him by voting HF. They also don't feel like getting their hands dirty lynching Palmar (as evidenced by BC jumping off) despite it being their most desirable outcome. So our best bet is to hunt for people who try to make Palmar look bad, but don't vote HF in D1.
There's probably 1 scum on the HF wagon (beside sentinel), but I don't get the feeling that they really tried here. This was town derping about, imho.
People who judiciously steered clear of both wagons: darthfoley, Tumblewood, Koshi, Oatsmaster, chezinu, onegu, rels
On March 03 2019 16:26 Acrofales wrote: K, 1 1/2 hours of morning posts before I'm sailing all day again.
Summary of the night:
##mayor Palmar
zzz
this is why the sent push is pointless
Why is this pointless? Walk me through it. I disagree with lynching sent (although I do want him dead). I'm all for putting that responsibility squarely on Palmar's shoulders.
And no, waiting til n1 to start playing the game seriously is not acceptable as town.
36? players. You either believe him about his role pm blahness or don't. If you don't, by all means push it. If you do it's boring. People won't lynch Chez on the assumping he can be vig'd. So can this guy.
And mostly it's an easy thing to agree with and excuse not doing anything else, innit?
Though props for not being that guy at least.
People won't lynch Chez because they don't think he's obviously scum. So if you want to lynch Chez make a better case than he's RPing the brown, because if you actually read his posts there's some decent amount of effort into understanding the game there, IMHO.
Sent is different. Let's assume he's telling the truth. In that case the only ppl who know his alignment are scum. If he's scum then they'll try to save him and if he isn't they'll try to kill him. Lynching him is not the best option, because there's far too much confusion in that wagon to get any information.
Now let's assume he's lying. I can't think of a town reason for doing this, and so he's scum. The rest is similar to above.
Enters Palmar: he claims to feel strongly about killing sent. So let him do it. All you need to decide is if Palmar is townie enough. But if we decide Palmar is townie enough to be mayor then he is free to kill whoever he likes. He sticks with sentinel and sentinel flips scum? We win, yay! Sheep Palmar into Armageddon. Sentinel flips town? We figure out if Palmars policy lynch is an ideological thing or a scum thing. Either way, we get information about Palmar out of this, which is a great thing to get out of D1.
Oh... I was just going to pretend to think Palmar is townie cause I really think him going after Sent if a really mafia Palmar thing to do if Sent was mafia.
Best make the mafia think you don't know to much if you want to survive the night.
This is... pretty terrible. I missed it earlier, but Chezinu clearly doesn't care about who becomes mayor as he sits all by his lonesome on his own mayor wagon. And this is his "read" on Palmar. I am starting to warm up to the Chezinu lynch.
But I wasn't intending to fixate on Chez. Lets move on.
On March 05 2019 06:38 Holyflare wrote: Palmar (11): Palmar, Ticktock, Meapak_Zipphh, Acrofales, Vivax, WaveofShadow, Grackaroni, Conversion, Alakaslam, Trfel, Blazinghand
How has this guy got 11 people voting for him when his sole policy is only to kill Sentinel who doesn't even look bad?
Almost the entirety, if not THE entirety of this wagon is the sketchiest people in this game. It's even growing!
I don't think Vivax or TT are sketch but yea, there are some questionable names on that wagon.
Why isn't Palmar pushing for a Mocsta mayor lynch considering he grilled him for like 3 pages over stuff? I guess I can understand why not Conversion considering Conversion is a leading wagon, but the fact that Palmar has been around but hasn't backed off the Sentinel idea is bonkers.
We should be voting HF or Iamp as mayor imo
Throws shade. Does nothing. Also scum. This is too easy!
Oatsmaster Seems to avoid saying anything about Palmar directly, but not in a scummy way. He's reading the thread, he calls palmar out when he doesn't agree. I don't really see much either way here. Definitely not throwing shade like the above two.
Onegu Cntrl-f Palmar: 0 results. Uh oh.
Onegu hasn't quoted a post by Palmar. He has not talked to Palmar, and he has not talked about Palmar. Not once in this entire game. This also means he hasn't talked about the mayor kill by HF. Serious red flags going up here, as that is probably still the most momentous event in the game (maybe equalled by TW's vigi kill on BC and Pandain's dayvig, but still top 3).
Rels Doesn't mention reads on Palmar D1. But his D1 filter is like 7 posts or so, and half of those are fluff. Not mentioning Palmar doesn't seem like a big deal, as he doesn't mention most people. Still a bit suspect.
Conclusions:
DF, Chez and Onegu come away with quite a lot of egg on their face.
Onegu hasn't quoted a post by Palmar. He has not talked to Palmar, and he has not talked about Palmar. Not once in this entire game. This also means he hasn't talked about the mayor kill by HF. Serious red flags going up here, as that is probably still the most momentous event in the game (maybe equalled by TW's vigi kill on BC and Pandain's dayvig, but still top 3).
Rels was away all of D1 as well. He talks about palmar and discusses what he thinks aobut HF shivving him. You... don't. Searching specifically for any kind of critical thinking about HF dropping a nuke on Palmar gives us:
On March 09 2019 22:12 Onegu wrote: Or tell me why my logic is bad?
Don't think scum would have a day vig especially when it would instant win in LYLO/MYLO as someone mentioned plus he had replaced out and replsced back in thus less likely chance he's scum I think.
This isnt a normal game. Possible scum get a 1 shot on day 3. Why should town make that shot though. Doesnt make sense. Only scum take that shot.
Second that is meaningless. Mean I shit I forgot the game started. Get replaced. Come back hey I wanted to play. AMG doesnt want to play scum or some shit comes up. Pandain comes back.
HF should always been shot by a vig of any sort though so we had info on the mayor wagon Day 1 and the Day 2 lynch.....
Not true at all. Would you have shot him if you had a day vigi? After the flips he was obv town.
There is remarkably little evidence that onegu was trying to figure out what the hell the mayor stuff was all about. This, btw, is the result of cntrl-f HF AND cntrl-f mayor. He isn't even bothering to figure out HF when he's up for lynching on D2...
Also, 0 mention of BH. That's the mayor elections, the fallout thereof and the D2 lynch all completely absent.
And yes, I realize you were legitimately afk. But your catch-up includes no analysis at all of what happened, or how people responded to what happened. It's like you're playing as if the game started at the beginning of D3... which is probably true for scum. Because D1 and D2 was utterly boring for them:
D1 Mayor wagons: HF, Palmar, Iamperfection All 3 with intentions to kill someone scum (probably) thought was town as well.
D2 Lynch wagons: BH, HF
Why would scum even feign playing? They didn't have to do *anything*. Town was tearing itself apart. And probably would have continued to do so on D3 if not for those meddling chil... Pandain.
So... yeah. Being afk for the first 7 days (realtime) of the game is a rather convenient excuse if you're scum.
On March 13 2019 02:47 LightningStrike wrote: We do have to kill Chez because despite his Meta Tell FF should of died if Chez is town based on the claims. MZ can be saved for Day 5 or so but right now we have to solve the brown himself.
Here's my proposal, kill me today and then kill one of my red reads day 5. If chez is actually scum he will have broken like a decade of meta.
Also for the record I have a very hard time believing FFs claim.
It's the last game most likely for TL Mafia and Rels brought up the point that he could break his meta for the final hurrah. Why you don't believe FF's claim?
Because I had a pretty strong red read on FF. Besides this town so far has been remarkably willing to accept role claims (that's neither good nor bad, I've just been part of towns in the past that were suspicious as shit of all claims). Besides hatter is a great scum claim bc it conveniently explains why you don't get NK'd and vigis are more nervous to shoot you.
I also don't like Rel for town very much, the traitor role has already flipped and someone pointed out scum mason would be a great role for helping the mafia team find the traitor.
Similarly I absolutely do not under any circumstances consider pandain townconfirmed, especially since he wasnt shot last night and tumble was.
Why would FF do that when the vigs all outed themselves???? If Rels is mafia you would have to assume that magfia didn't know who the traitor is but know there is a traitor so why would he recruit his townreads in Tina (rsoultin), Rayn and later recruited me?
How do you know all the vigis are outed? Its a closed setup. And if hes scum, he probably just recruits people he thinks he can influence. Like mafia can say "these are my townreads" and always be right lol.
But if he's recruiting rsoultin, he isn't using it to hunt for the traitor...
On March 13 2019 02:47 LightningStrike wrote: We do have to kill Chez because despite his Meta Tell FF should of died if Chez is town based on the claims. MZ can be saved for Day 5 or so but right now we have to solve the brown himself.
Here's my proposal, kill me today and then kill one of my red reads day 5. If chez is actually scum he will have broken like a decade of meta.
Also for the record I have a very hard time believing FFs claim.
It's the last game most likely for TL Mafia and Rels brought up the point that he could break his meta for the final hurrah. Why you don't believe FF's claim?
Because I had a pretty strong red read on FF. Besides this town so far has been remarkably willing to accept role claims (that's neither good nor bad, I've just been part of towns in the past that were suspicious as shit of all claims). Besides hatter is a great scum claim bc it conveniently explains why you don't get NK'd and vigis are more nervous to shoot you.
I also don't like Rel for town very much, the traitor role has already flipped and someone pointed out scum mason would be a great role for helping the mafia team find the traitor.
Similarly I absolutely do not under any circumstances consider pandain townconfirmed, especially since he wasnt shot last night and tumble was.
Why would FF do that when the vigs all outed themselves???? If Rels is mafia you would have to assume that magfia didn't know who the traitor is but know there is a traitor so why would he recruit his townreads in Tina (rsoultin), Rayn and later recruited me?
How do you know all the vigis are outed? Its a closed setup. And if hes scum, he probably just recruits people he thinks he can influence. Like mafia can say "these are my townreads" and always be right lol.
This should have been easy to update. Where is it?
As much as I hate people who use IRL as an excuse, I have flown a sortie every day since last Wednesday. I ended up being a lot busier on this trip than I was anticipating so I have not updated it, nor have I had my computer on in a week.
I've basically just had time to catch up at the end of the day and throw out some thoughts. If people don't find this to be a compelling reason I'm fine flipping now since we aren't at lylo.
That's okay, I wasn't expecting a fully updated version, but you took the time to mention that you had an Excel that was more updated than this. Please sync.
On March 13 2019 03:55 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: I also managed to get the hotel wifi to upload the excel to the spreadsheet. It's current as of last Wednesday morning.
Hmmm. Why are the flip colors updated, but not the reads with nightly insights?
On March 13 2019 03:55 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: I also managed to get the hotel wifi to upload the excel to the spreadsheet. It's current as of last Wednesday morning.
Hmmm. Why are the flip colors updated, but not the reads with nightly insights?
What do you mean?
I've got it so that light green means you called a flipped town, green before their death and purple means you scum read a townie who flipped green.
But you didn't update the reads list with progressing reads from ppl.
On March 13 2019 15:41 Tubesock wrote: When I flip remember who pushed it.
Of course people know when they OMGUS, that happens a lot. I’m pretty sure it happened earlier in this game.
On March 12 2019 23:00 Tubesock wrote: Fecalfeast - bombing Chez is brilliant. I believe his claim and he’s the only hatter. Vivax - he’s alive because he’s useful for mafia, he does not promote town circles. Mocsta - probably should be null. Hmm
[/green][/b]
The ppl pushing your case are all green in your list. Rather than telling us to "look into it", how about you give us a reason to not lunch you.
Because right now, I'm still not convinced on FF vs Chez, I'm no longer sure about MZ (although he's probably still mafia) and the guys pushing you have a point.
Chezinu, I have an idea about this, but explain why you claimed hatter, plz.
Also, I totes picked up on that veteran claim, but dismissed it, because you claimed hatter. Look at me being not completely useless at picking out breadcrumbs.
In fact, I'll go so far as to say that lynching me would be a better idea than lynching Chez at this point. FF might need to be lynched so scum don't shoot the 2-for-1, but Chez is definitely an awful lynch.
Bah, chezinu is in the US, so there's no chance he'll respond to me any time soon. Gonna have to lay out his reasoning myself, which ruins the chance for him to prove he's not brown, but green. But I need to do it, to get all the reasoning out there, so we can get on with the real lynch of the day: Onegu.
On March 10 2019 10:14 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Well I was going to say about the Chez lynch that I'm not sure how to feel since Chez seems to be completely gone. Felt weird to try to lynch someone who's not even playing. But then what do I spy but this:
On March 10 2019 09:57 Chezinu wrote: ##Vote sicklucker
What's happening my brooding brown brother? I think it's time to confess about that evil living inside of you.
On March 10 2019 10:47 LightningStrike wrote: Also Chez you claiming Blue?
Already did earlier.
Seriously the brown claimed blue this game. It's like the end of the world or something.
On March 10 2019 10:51 Chezinu wrote: Would be so funny if wiggle and vivax had bombs on thems.
Up to this point, nobody really knew what to make of chez's claims, except FF, who picked it up, naturally, being the real hatter, as a truthful hatter claim. He sniffed out that this was a weird claim, and counterclaimed the shit out of it. What he didn't know was that chez was fake-claiming as the town veteran, and the moment he gets counterclaimed, instead of doubling down, he starts recanting, but only part of the claim:
On March 10 2019 11:33 LightningStrike wrote: Rolf chez posted right when I was typing that out lol..... What abilities you talking about Chez?
I'm a veteran at this game. When I'm up for lynch, it forces me to play like never before. So, the mission town had in voting for me has been accomplished. I am playing now. Mad hatters's bombs don't go off when lynched.. only when killed at night.
On March 11 2019 10:46 Ace wrote: As of now we have these claimed roles. If any of the information is wrong let me know.
1 Normal Vigilante (1 shot) - Tumbleweed 1 Lurker Vigilante (Can only target players that had less than 5 posts previous day) - Arcofales Mad Hatter with 1 bomb - Fecalfeast Mad Hatter - Chezinu Day Vigilante - Pandain
Known roles:
Marv = Cop Trfel = Doctor Palmar = Backup Cop iamperfection = Veteran BC = Scum Roleblocker
With a closed set up we don't know role numbers, but some things we can surmise. I've stated these concerns in earlier posts but I want to keep this stuff on people's minds.
Most of my thoughts come from how I see a balanced game. This is usually from the idea that Scum doesn't really need much power in their roles to destroy the town. When I see lots of high powered Town Roles I assume scum is compensated somehow.
With what we know right now the Town has a shit ton of KP even if it's 1 shot. We have 5 KP plus the lynch. This isn't really that outlandish on the surface because we started with 36 players. But if we're walking around with that much KP look at what's missing - we've had 1 Doctor flip, and 1 cop flip. The backup cop doesn't count as an investigation role because it does nothing until the cop flips. That means in addition to veteran we've seen 2 protective roles and ONE active investigation role included with 8? total KP, 3 of which are guaranteed to hit Town and come with a role blocker.
No one has come out with any information on night investigations. I highly doubt we only had one information role so someone is holding onto something. This again gives the Town massive power vs the only known Scum role of RB.
So I just don't buy all of these claims.
Pandain's Day Vigi claim seems credible to me. Scum having a Day Vigi when they already have 3 KP doesn't match with what we know so far. I'm supposing mods know about the self-confirmation power of normal vigilantes and how shooting during the day boosts that even more.
TW hasn't been counter claimed on the BC shot. Almost confirmed town.
FF and Chez's claims can't be confirmed w/o rolecop or death lol. Both of them being hatters and Town is just wtf. But luckily these claims coincide with the problem role imo: Acro's lurker vigilante.
I've never seen this role afaik remember. When I first saw it I was like oh shit what a great concept! But then I kept thinking about it and it just doesn't seem to fit at face value. Remember, one of the issues with vigilantes is they are Town aligned but their KP can also hit Town. MAfia doesn't have this issue as they know their teammates and their KP will always hit Town.
So Acro is a Town aligned vigilante and gets to shoot people based on lurking conditions. First, the mods would have to know the issue that comes up if only Town satisfies that condition. You'd have a town aligned vigilante becoming completely anti-Town and killing teammates. Sure, they may want to give players control of dealing with lurkers and we can look at Acro as a mod tool. But, post count isn't a sub for post quality. They'd quickly realize that a potentially valuable pro-Town player would be screwed. However, this isn't the only problem with the role for me.
Damdred + Chezinu + Pandain. Those were his choices Night 2. I highly, highly doubt if this role is true it would drop only Town players into his cross hairs. It would be a strictly anti-town role and we would have to lynch him anyway unless you believe he only has 1 shot. If his role is true Acro should have thought hard about some of this and immediately railroaded Chez or Pandain. And if Pandain is town confirmed day vigilante, this means Chezinu has to be scum. Anyone believing Acro's claim should want Chezinu lynched soon.
Let's see how the night plays out and who comes out with a claim tomorrow.
I believe you are wrong about your Chezinu Role Claim. I know... he is hard to read.
On March 10 2019 11:32 Chezinu wrote:
Getting lynched is lame. Everyone said they were going to shoot me... sigh... How am I supposed to use my abilities if I get lynched?
On February 09 2010 16:02 Incognito wrote: Mad Hatter You may lay bombs on one player per night (maximum 2). If you are killed you will throw the switch and detonate them, killing the players (if they aren't protected by extra night lives, paramedics, or bodyguards). You may remove any number of them from players at any time during the night to get them back, but if a player is lynched with one on them while the you are still alive you lose that bomb for good. Bombs are refunded if the target is killed during the night.
Oh yeah.. it doesn't kill visitors.. does it? That would be so cool!!!
We really need to retry this end of the world game with more explosives!
This is all... very weird if he's scum that just got counterclaimed. Scum that gets counterclaimed don't back down. They insist that there are 2 hatters in the game, that FF is lying or something else. They don't just kinda ignore the counterclaim. Not even chezinu. So why back down, but in such a weird way? Because he wanted scum to waste KP on him.
Note, there are numerous references to veteran incongruently scattered around his filter, which may just be talking about TL veterans, veteran players, or be breadcrumbing his role. The biggest one is the one he quoted earlier, but there are more. Of course, it's chezinu the brown, he who speaketh in riddles, so good luck deciding if they're breadcrumbs or just weird use of language. But they exist.
But the kicker is this: Chezinu knows he was never gonna get scumshot at night, so he claimed a role that scum does want to shoot. By claiming hatter, with bombs on probable townies, scum would totally shoot the shit out of him, and he'd soak up KP, exactly as he is intended to. His confusion about the role is because he never bothered to actually research hatters, and when counterclaimed kinda just dropped it. He was still playing at it halfheartedly during the night, but the big play he had imagined was already dead in the water.
The next day, when he doesn't end up dead, he gives up and posts the true role claim.
Could this all be an elaborate plot by a scum!Chezinu to save his bacon after his fakeclaim failed? Maybe, but nothing about his behaviour around the fakeclaim makes sense. He isn't calling FF out on it, he isn't imploring town that there are really two hatters, and he isn't pushing the matter at all. Scum doesn't just give up on fakeclaims. They insist, and wheedle.
So chezinu is a veteran.
Can there be two veterans and a medic in a 35player game? I'm inclined to say yes.
Chezinu the black, or Chezinu the red: if he's an sk/survivor with a bulletproof vest, or a mafia veteran, claiming hatter and trying to get shot doesn't make sense. The whole mindset is to survive, and avoiding getting shot is still the safest way of doing that, not using your bulletproof vest to soak a bomb. Mafia makes even less sense, because why not just shoot FF, and if the bomb is on chezinu, he survives, and if it's on someone else in FF's list of scumspects, it's a 2-for-1. Ez pickings, and a far better shot than TT.
So, Chezinu is green, not brown, and town may rejoice!
The implications:
The fact that scum didn't shoot FF, means they already figured this shit out. They knew Chezinu was town and didn't kill FF anyway. Why not? Because they had figured out that it wouldn't be a 2-for-1 because they got chezinu's breadcrumbs. So next best solution: leave both alive and push the lynch to be between them on D4. Guess who is really adamant about that? Onegu.
Now, you say, nobody knew that, and it's obvious to lynch between the claim and the fake claim as a townie too. I grant you that, which makes everything Onegu has done today NAI (although I specifically went back to the start of the day to figure out who was taking the "easy way out" and focusing exclusively on the FF <> Chezinu situation, and one name really jumped out; guess whose).
So lets make a list of everything Onegu has done this game:
D1. Nothing D2. Nothing D3. Where it gets interesting.
He starts with pushing Pandain after he dayvig's HF, because there is "no way town does that". In particular, look at this post:
On March 09 2019 22:12 Onegu wrote: Or tell me why my logic is bad?
Don't think scum would have a day vig especially when it would instant win in LYLO/MYLO as someone mentioned plus he had replaced out and replsced back in thus less likely chance he's scum I think.
This isnt a normal game. Possible scum get a 1 shot on day 3. Why should town make that shot though. Doesnt make sense. Only scum take that shot.
Second that is meaningless. Mean I shit I forgot the game started. Get replaced. Come back hey I wanted to play. AMG doesnt want to play scum or some shit comes up. Pandain comes back.
HF should always been shot by a vig of any sort though so we had info on the mayor wagon Day 1 and the Day 2 lynch.....
Not true at all. Would you have shot him if you had a day vigi? After the flips he was obv town.
This just reeeeeeeeks of TMI. Note that this is from a guy who has not mentioned Palmar a single time in his filter, and has a grand total of two posts talking about HF. HF's alignment was definitely not obvious to me based on the flips, and even if you did think HF was town, did the N2 nightkills help you with that in the slightest. There is scum knowledge shining through in this post, in order to push for his lynch on Pandain.
The rest of the day, he is waffling about Chez. He leaps onto the wagon when my role is misunderstood. Jumps off when I clarify, and leaps back on at the slightest opportunity.
Has he ever explained the read? No. The only reason is the fakeclaim. Nothing else.
Then we get:
On March 11 2019 08:40 Onegu wrote: ONCE AGAIN TO HAMMER THIS HOME NO ONE GETS ANY TOWN CRED FROM THAT LYNCH.
This is.... not good. Even if you believe scum didn't know sentinel was one of them, it was still good scumhunting to find sentinel. Even if you think the best you can credit the case with was scum-aligned-survivor, some people still look good for finding that. And Pandain looks best. Trying to remove that from the equation is anti-town play. Moreso, because he just doesn't want people townreading Pandain, who he still sees as lynchbait.
On March 12 2019 18:41 Onegu wrote: I feels since day three I have been one of the more active players... Maybe I am wrong...
In terms of activity, this may have been true (didn't check), but in terms of usefulness or transparency? Onegu has played his cards close to his chest.
During D3 he posted about: pandain, and chezinu. That's it. Narrow focus. No scumhunting. Just latching onto these and trying to get them lynched. During N3 he kept up his laser focus on pandain and chezinu, and adds in muddying the waters around the sentinel lynch. That is it. There is no searching for the rest of the scumteam. No investigation. Nothing that townies do. This is not a town Onegu. This is a scum Onegu.
On March 09 2019 09:06 Holyflare wrote: Oh hey look absolutely everyone that would be defending me died and the one guy that yelled about lynching me for dumb reasons was mafia. That's cool.
Some of his reasons were good. He just happened to be your scum buddy :'(
There was no "instant reading HF as town".
He was maybe coming around here:
On March 09 2019 09:28 Ace wrote: Wow. Ah well. All that fun trying to lynch HF is now down the drain.
But I don't really see where he was giving a clear townread off of BC getting shot until after HF was shot as well. He afterwards claims he instantly read HF as town, but at the time he clearly didn't "instantly".
As for SL, he's still in the game, but what I find in his filter is this:
On March 09 2019 09:17 sicklucker wrote: Ok i sapose holyscum is town from night actions maybe. Let the fun begin
Not very confident.
And I myself was definitely not convinced BC wasn't just bussing HF, but I do admit, I wasn't looking for associations after the daypost, and only really started playing D3 the next morning after the dayvig did his thing.
On March 14 2019 02:46 ExO_ wrote: Has TS done/said something recently that makes him more likely to be scum than myself? I though TS was basically in the same boat of being afk as I was and I'm curious why he's generally being more pushed than me.
Because I’m in that sweet spot where I’m easily forgotten and just don’t have much to contribute.
Wiggles then vivax didn’t like me but I think they are probably town. The ones who jumped on later though would be where the mafia are.
Less talking about you, more talking about other people. I asked you a question a couple of hours ago, when you said about the same. You just claimed town and to look into your lynch leaders "after you died", but you are townreading all of your lynch leaders. So instead of telling us what to do postmortem, you should be able to do better right now. What makes them scum, rather than just wrong town?
Because really, I think they may very well be right. But my priority is definitely lynching Onegu
@Onegu: mind telling me where you're going with your questions about my role? I'd like to know what you hope to learn... especially as I have literally already said exactly what my role did.
On March 13 2019 20:31 Acrofales wrote: Bah, chezinu is in the US, so there's no chance he'll respond to me any time soon. Gonna have to lay out his reasoning myself, which ruins the chance for him to prove he's not brown, but green. But I need to do it, to get all the reasoning out there, so we can get on with the real lynch of the day: Onegu.
On March 10 2019 10:14 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Well I was going to say about the Chez lynch that I'm not sure how to feel since Chez seems to be completely gone. Felt weird to try to lynch someone who's not even playing. But then what do I spy but this:
On March 10 2019 09:57 Chezinu wrote: ##Vote sicklucker
What's happening my brooding brown brother? I think it's time to confess about that evil living inside of you.
On March 10 2019 10:47 LightningStrike wrote: Also Chez you claiming Blue?
Already did earlier.
Seriously the brown claimed blue this game. It's like the end of the world or something.
On March 10 2019 10:51 Chezinu wrote: Would be so funny if wiggle and vivax had bombs on thems.
Up to this point, nobody really knew what to make of chez's claims, except FF, who picked it up, naturally, being the real hatter, as a truthful hatter claim. He sniffed out that this was a weird claim, and counterclaimed the shit out of it. What he didn't know was that chez was fake-claiming as the town veteran, and the moment he gets counterclaimed, instead of doubling down, he starts recanting, but only part of the claim:
On March 10 2019 11:33 LightningStrike wrote: Rolf chez posted right when I was typing that out lol..... What abilities you talking about Chez?
I'm a veteran at this game. When I'm up for lynch, it forces me to play like never before. So, the mission town had in voting for me has been accomplished. I am playing now. Mad hatters's bombs don't go off when lynched.. only when killed at night.
On March 11 2019 10:46 Ace wrote: As of now we have these claimed roles. If any of the information is wrong let me know.
1 Normal Vigilante (1 shot) - Tumbleweed 1 Lurker Vigilante (Can only target players that had less than 5 posts previous day) - Arcofales Mad Hatter with 1 bomb - Fecalfeast Mad Hatter - Chezinu Day Vigilante - Pandain
Known roles:
Marv = Cop Trfel = Doctor Palmar = Backup Cop iamperfection = Veteran BC = Scum Roleblocker
With a closed set up we don't know role numbers, but some things we can surmise. I've stated these concerns in earlier posts but I want to keep this stuff on people's minds.
Most of my thoughts come from how I see a balanced game. This is usually from the idea that Scum doesn't really need much power in their roles to destroy the town. When I see lots of high powered Town Roles I assume scum is compensated somehow.
With what we know right now the Town has a shit ton of KP even if it's 1 shot. We have 5 KP plus the lynch. This isn't really that outlandish on the surface because we started with 36 players. But if we're walking around with that much KP look at what's missing - we've had 1 Doctor flip, and 1 cop flip. The backup cop doesn't count as an investigation role because it does nothing until the cop flips. That means in addition to veteran we've seen 2 protective roles and ONE active investigation role included with 8? total KP, 3 of which are guaranteed to hit Town and come with a role blocker.
No one has come out with any information on night investigations. I highly doubt we only had one information role so someone is holding onto something. This again gives the Town massive power vs the only known Scum role of RB.
So I just don't buy all of these claims.
Pandain's Day Vigi claim seems credible to me. Scum having a Day Vigi when they already have 3 KP doesn't match with what we know so far. I'm supposing mods know about the self-confirmation power of normal vigilantes and how shooting during the day boosts that even more.
TW hasn't been counter claimed on the BC shot. Almost confirmed town.
FF and Chez's claims can't be confirmed w/o rolecop or death lol. Both of them being hatters and Town is just wtf. But luckily these claims coincide with the problem role imo: Acro's lurker vigilante.
I've never seen this role afaik remember. When I first saw it I was like oh shit what a great concept! But then I kept thinking about it and it just doesn't seem to fit at face value. Remember, one of the issues with vigilantes is they are Town aligned but their KP can also hit Town. MAfia doesn't have this issue as they know their teammates and their KP will always hit Town.
So Acro is a Town aligned vigilante and gets to shoot people based on lurking conditions. First, the mods would have to know the issue that comes up if only Town satisfies that condition. You'd have a town aligned vigilante becoming completely anti-Town and killing teammates. Sure, they may want to give players control of dealing with lurkers and we can look at Acro as a mod tool. But, post count isn't a sub for post quality. They'd quickly realize that a potentially valuable pro-Town player would be screwed. However, this isn't the only problem with the role for me.
Damdred + Chezinu + Pandain. Those were his choices Night 2. I highly, highly doubt if this role is true it would drop only Town players into his cross hairs. It would be a strictly anti-town role and we would have to lynch him anyway unless you believe he only has 1 shot. If his role is true Acro should have thought hard about some of this and immediately railroaded Chez or Pandain. And if Pandain is town confirmed day vigilante, this means Chezinu has to be scum. Anyone believing Acro's claim should want Chezinu lynched soon.
Let's see how the night plays out and who comes out with a claim tomorrow.
I believe you are wrong about your Chezinu Role Claim. I know... he is hard to read.
On March 11 2019 13:04 Chezinu wrote: Dear doctors and medics,
Do not protect me. My death will lead to more information... That is only if I die at night. Ace is an amazing investigator.
Caution: bombs can eliminate players that visit the player with the bomb when it goes off.
Wtf role si this?
On February 09 2010 16:02 Incognito wrote: Mad Hatter You may lay bombs on one player per night (maximum 2). If you are killed you will throw the switch and detonate them, killing the players (if they aren't protected by extra night lives, paramedics, or bodyguards). You may remove any number of them from players at any time during the night to get them back, but if a player is lynched with one on them while the you are still alive you lose that bomb for good. Bombs are refunded if the target is killed during the night.
Oh yeah.. it doesn't kill visitors.. does it? That would be so cool!!!
We really need to retry this end of the world game with more explosives!
This is all... very weird if he's scum that just got counterclaimed. Scum that gets counterclaimed don't back down. They insist that there are 2 hatters in the game, that FF is lying or something else. They don't just kinda ignore the counterclaim. Not even chezinu. So why back down, but in such a weird way? Because he wanted scum to waste KP on him.
Note, there are numerous references to veteran incongruently scattered around his filter, which may just be talking about TL veterans, veteran players, or be breadcrumbing his role. The biggest one is the one he quoted earlier, but there are more. Of course, it's chezinu the brown, he who speaketh in riddles, so good luck deciding if they're breadcrumbs or just weird use of language. But they exist.
But the kicker is this: Chezinu knows he was never gonna get scumshot at night, so he claimed a role that scum does want to shoot. By claiming hatter, with bombs on probable townies, scum would totally shoot the shit out of him, and he'd soak up KP, exactly as he is intended to. His confusion about the role is because he never bothered to actually research hatters, and when counterclaimed kinda just dropped it. He was still playing at it halfheartedly during the night, but the big play he had imagined was already dead in the water.
The next day, when he doesn't end up dead, he gives up and posts the true role claim.
Could this all be an elaborate plot by a scum!Chezinu to save his bacon after his fakeclaim failed? Maybe, but nothing about his behaviour around the fakeclaim makes sense. He isn't calling FF out on it, he isn't imploring town that there are really two hatters, and he isn't pushing the matter at all. Scum doesn't just give up on fakeclaims. They insist, and wheedle.
So chezinu is a veteran.
Can there be two veterans and a medic in a 35player game? I'm inclined to say yes.
Chezinu the black, or Chezinu the red: if he's an sk/survivor with a bulletproof vest, or a mafia veteran, claiming hatter and trying to get shot doesn't make sense. The whole mindset is to survive, and avoiding getting shot is still the safest way of doing that, not using your bulletproof vest to soak a bomb. Mafia makes even less sense, because why not just shoot FF, and if the bomb is on chezinu, he survives, and if it's on someone else in FF's list of scumspects, it's a 2-for-1. Ez pickings, and a far better shot than TT.
So, Chezinu is green, not brown, and town may rejoice!
The implications:
The fact that scum didn't shoot FF, means they already figured this shit out. They knew Chezinu was town and didn't kill FF anyway. Why not? Because they had figured out that it wouldn't be a 2-for-1 because they got chezinu's breadcrumbs. So next best solution: leave both alive and push the lynch to be between them on D4. Guess who is really adamant about that? Onegu.
Now, you say, nobody knew that, and it's obvious to lynch between the claim and the fake claim as a townie too. I grant you that, which makes everything Onegu has done today NAI (although I specifically went back to the start of the day to figure out who was taking the "easy way out" and focusing exclusively on the FF <> Chezinu situation, and one name really jumped out; guess whose).
So lets make a list of everything Onegu has done this game:
D1. Nothing D2. Nothing D3. Where it gets interesting.
He starts with pushing Pandain after he dayvig's HF, because there is "no way town does that". In particular, look at this post:
On March 09 2019 22:12 Onegu wrote: Or tell me why my logic is bad?
Don't think scum would have a day vig especially when it would instant win in LYLO/MYLO as someone mentioned plus he had replaced out and replsced back in thus less likely chance he's scum I think.
This isnt a normal game. Possible scum get a 1 shot on day 3. Why should town make that shot though. Doesnt make sense. Only scum take that shot.
Second that is meaningless. Mean I shit I forgot the game started. Get replaced. Come back hey I wanted to play. AMG doesnt want to play scum or some shit comes up. Pandain comes back.
HF should always been shot by a vig of any sort though so we had info on the mayor wagon Day 1 and the Day 2 lynch.....
Not true at all. Would you have shot him if you had a day vigi? After the flips he was obv town.
This just reeeeeeeeks of TMI. Note that this is from a guy who has not mentioned Palmar a single time in his filter, and has a grand total of two posts talking about HF. HF's alignment was definitely not obvious to me based on the flips, and even if you did think HF was town, did the N2 nightkills help you with that in the slightest. There is scum knowledge shining through in this post, in order to push for his lynch on Pandain.
The rest of the day, he is waffling about Chez. He leaps onto the wagon when my role is misunderstood. Jumps off when I clarify, and leaps back on at the slightest opportunity.
Has he ever explained the read? No. The only reason is the fakeclaim. Nothing else.
On March 11 2019 08:40 Onegu wrote: ONCE AGAIN TO HAMMER THIS HOME NO ONE GETS ANY TOWN CRED FROM THAT LYNCH.
This is.... not good. Even if you believe scum didn't know sentinel was one of them, it was still good scumhunting to find sentinel. Even if you think the best you can credit the case with was scum-aligned-survivor, some people still look good for finding that. And Pandain looks best. Trying to remove that from the equation is anti-town play. Moreso, because he just doesn't want people townreading Pandain, who he still sees as lynchbait.
On March 12 2019 18:41 Onegu wrote: I feels since day three I have been one of the more active players... Maybe I am wrong...
In terms of activity, this may have been true (didn't check), but in terms of usefulness or transparency? Onegu has played his cards close to his chest.
During D3 he posted about: pandain, and chezinu. That's it. Narrow focus. No scumhunting. Just latching onto these and trying to get them lynched. During N3 he kept up his laser focus on pandain and chezinu, and adds in muddying the waters around the sentinel lynch. That is it. There is no searching for the rest of the scumteam. No investigation. Nothing that townies do. This is not a town Onegu. This is a scum Onegu.
On March 14 2019 03:05 Acrofales wrote: @Onegu: mind telling me where you're going with your questions about my role? I'd like to know what you hope to learn... especially as I have literally already said exactly what my role did.
I asked for clarification. You haven’t given it.
What's there to clarify, I stated exactly what my role did.
On March 14 2019 03:12 Onegu wrote: If someone made 4 posts but voted could you shoot them. If some one made 6 posts but didn’t vote could you shoot them.
And did hosts tell you who you could shoot or did you have to keep track yourself?
On March 14 2019 03:12 Onegu wrote: If someone made 4 posts but voted could you shoot them. If some one made 6 posts but didn’t vote could you shoot them.
And did hosts tell you who you could shoot or did you have to keep track yourself?
Yes Yes Had to keep track myself.
Like... all this is literally in my claim
Well call me stupid and on pain meds. I am trying to understand. But thank you for making it clear for me.
One last question are you sure those are the only 3 you could have shot?
No. But I went through everybody's filter at the time and think I got it right.
On March 14 2019 02:46 ExO_ wrote: Has TS done/said something recently that makes him more likely to be scum than myself? I though TS was basically in the same boat of being afk as I was and I'm curious why he's generally being more pushed than me.
Because I’m in that sweet spot where I’m easily forgotten and just don’t have much to contribute.
Wiggles then vivax didn’t like me but I think they are probably town. The ones who jumped on later though would be where the mafia are.
Less talking about you, more talking about other people. I asked you a question a couple of hours ago, when you said about the same. You just claimed town and to look into your lynch leaders "after you died", but you are townreading all of your lynch leaders. So instead of telling us what to do postmortem, you should be able to do better right now. What makes them scum, rather than just wrong town?
Because really, I think they may very well be right. But my priority is definitely lynching Onegu
I think Vivax is town. I think Wiggles probably is town. You’re saying I should just make shit up to scumread them? No thanks.
The problem I have with your case is that I don’t think there’s two vet’s in the game. And you seem to think Pandain is town, do you really think there are 9 blues in this game? I think that’s a bit much.
No, I don't think you should scumread them. But then what is this about?
On March 13 2019 15:41 Tubesock wrote: When I flip remember who pushed it.
Of course people know when they OMGUS, that happens a lot. I’m pretty sure it happened earlier in this game.
Like... what the fuck. If you think the guys pushing your lynch are scummy, then make the case now. If you don't think so, then why do we need to look at them post-flip, and not *some other guys who you DO think are scum*.................
On March 14 2019 03:22 Jockmcplop wrote: @acrofales I was about to quote that post. That explanation of the chezinu situation makes total sense.
I don't know about the case against onegu though. I didn't understand how those night kills made hf definite town either, but I get what he's saying about the day vig should be waiting until later to get more info before shooting.
He's also right that no-one gets town cred from the sentinel lynch. Scum could have easily been on that wagon without knowing he was traitor.
The thing i find most scummy is that he needed to find a way to avoid responding to you.
I have responded to everyone. I just didn’t want to talk about acro until he made things clear. As his shot is the most suspicious to me currently. I wasn’t avoiding shit....
Why is acros shot somehow more suspicious than Pandain?
If we go by shot it’s not. Acros shot looks much better than Pandains. But I don’t know why a scum Pandain move his vote from town ace to sent. Why not just let ace die there if he is scum?
Did scum even know if he was the traitor? I kinda glossed over the discussion last time it happened but I thought the consensus was he knew the scum but they didn't know him.
He definitely didn't know them. They may or may not have known him. Probably not tho.
On March 14 2019 03:22 Jockmcplop wrote: @acrofales I was about to quote that post. That explanation of the chezinu situation makes total sense.
I don't know about the case against onegu though. I didn't understand how those night kills made hf definite town either, but I get what he's saying about the day vig should be waiting until later to get more info before shooting.
He's also right that no-one gets town cred from the sentinel lynch. Scum could have easily been on that wagon without knowing he was traitor.
The thing i find most scummy is that he needed to find a way to avoid responding to you.
I have responded to everyone. I just didn’t want to talk about acro until he made things clear. As his shot is the most suspicious to me currently. I wasn’t avoiding shit....
On March 14 2019 03:22 Jockmcplop wrote: @acrofales I was about to quote that post. That explanation of the chezinu situation makes total sense.
I don't know about the case against onegu though. I didn't understand how those night kills made hf definite town either, but I get what he's saying about the day vig should be waiting until later to get more info before shooting.
He's also right that no-one gets town cred from the sentinel lynch. Scum could have easily been on that wagon without knowing he was traitor.
The thing i find most scummy is that he needed to find a way to avoid responding to you.
I have responded to everyone. I just didn’t want to talk about acro until he made things clear. As his shot is the most suspicious to me currently. I wasn’t avoiding shit....
So now that I clarified. Lets have that analysis!
Actually I kind of believe you. Did you have a deadline to give hosts the shot so they could confirm it was a ok shot?
Ok. Where's the tubesock case. I agree with ExO_ that the worst he did was stop playing when his internet went out. It's not great, but it's just shit that happens. Show me tubescum, or I'm gonna keep hollering until we're lynching onegu (I accept a DF lynch too).
On March 14 2019 03:47 Acrofales wrote: Ok. Where's the tubesock case. I agree with ExO_ that the worst he did was stop playing when his internet went out. It's not great, but it's just shit that happens. Show me tubescum, or I'm gonna keep hollering until we're lynching onegu (I accept a DF lynch too).
Did you not see his list post and Vivax's post in response to TS's list post?
I didn't agree with much on his list post. But I don't see anything *scummy*. I mean, there's clear logical errors there. Vivax is completely right on that. But... making mistakes doesn't make you scum. If it were, we should totally lynch vivax
On March 03 2019 08:18 sicklucker wrote: Not sure about oats but i think its more likely people forgot how oats played mafia when hes trying. Nothing really stood out for me
Read progression please. You have insight on Oats?
Other than that, there's a few red flags in SL's filter, but overall he seems too bouncy and all over the place to be scum. I don't really know SL's scumgame at all, but I get the feeling from his filter that he's playing the town game and happy to be doing so.
On March 03 2019 11:26 Palmar wrote: So this is not a joke, I am going to do nothing but vote Sentinel until he comes in to the thread and says "I have read my role PM". Just pile votes on him because he's playing a strategy that's only advantageous to mafia.
On March 05 2019 10:20 sicklucker wrote: i feel pretty dumb voting hf for mayor now I didnt think he was killing palmar at the time which is insanely stupid in a game with so many anti towners. if marv plays good and obv town ill happily sheep him
HF was nothing if not obvious about what he was going to do. Even if you don't think he's serious, if you have a strong townread on Palmar (strong enough to mention it anyway, which is more than he did for anyone except LS... and maybe rsoul). SL was there for at least part of that push, so why is he still voting HF?
Minor red flag: has a scumread on conversion, but is all chummy with marv on N1.
Then I'll reveal that you were all tricked into joining Insane Mafia 3
Have you not read the spoiler?
Even hosts can joke. I'll stay with the fact that it's described as closed normal, meaning there might be some surprises but nothing too crazy. Although it does look like kita got some inspiration from the very early games, and they were a bit wilder in terms of "normal" setup. Got a train ride ahead with phone only time. So I'll take advantage to check out the really old games.
On March 14 2019 03:47 Acrofales wrote: Ok. Where's the tubesock case. I agree with ExO_ that the worst he did was stop playing when his internet went out. It's not great, but it's just shit that happens. Show me tubescum, or I'm gonna keep hollering until we're lynching onegu (I accept a DF lynch too).
Did you not see his list post and Vivax's post in response to TS's list post?
I didn't agree with much on his list post. But I don't see anything *scummy*. I mean, there's clear logical errors there. Vivax is completely right on that. But... making mistakes doesn't make you scum. If it were, we should totally lynch vivax
It's actually a tell he usually give more reasons for his reads.
Meta me up. Make the case. I have never played with tubesock and am not gonna search for games. If there's a meta reason for him being scum if he's lazy on the list post, I need to see:
examples of list posts where he gives meticulous reasoning as town examples of list posts where he gives throwaway reasoning as scum
@TS: you want to talk about yourself? While LS is making his metacase, you can come up with countermeta examples: examples of list posts where you have throwaway reasoning as town
Looking over old games, I see very little creativity in mafia roles. It's basically goons, godfather and the odd stronger KP role. I don't even see framers (although there are paranoid and insane cops to balance it out a bit)
Hatter is a town role, and town generally has a reasonable number of blue roles.
Here's an example (tl mafia 5 I think I copypastad from) from a 30-player game:
0 of 2 Paramedics remain 2 of 2 Detectives remain 1 of 2 Veterans remain 0 of 1 Vigilante remains
In a bigger game I saw more town KP and similar number of other powers. So the claims so far appear to line up.
It is true that we've toned down the number of blue roles over time, but it's also been aaaaaages since we had a normal large game fill up.
[QUOTE]On March 14 2019 04:40 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: [QUOTE]On March 14 2019 04:37 LightningStrike wrote: Example Case 1 s I spoiler each list post: + Show Spoiler +
On June 06 2017 07:53 Tubesock wrote: Just in case:
PB - too sloppy from his last mafia game. Conversion - he's trying for help and actually giving his thoughts. Too transparent for mafia. HF* He's just too dangerous as mafia to not distrust at least a little bit. In any case I'm not going to lynch him till like D4/5. Ritoky- I felt mindmelded + Show Spoiler +
On June 04 2017 14:33 ritoky wrote: i think the town is something like; me, tube, vivax, hf; and tentatively conv and pb
fidei has like....almost exact opposite reads of me. dunno what to think about that.
reading LS mafia, what else is new for me.
btdt has done nothing to change my opinion, still think he is probably mafia.
tw doesn't make a whole lot of sense. defending grack for ???? defending grack from spooky ghosts pushing him???? missed joke early. says "mindmeld" then doesn't say what the mindmeld was. mafia pile.
grack made a joke while being yelled at by BH, so he gets half a town point; but otherwise he hasn't done jack esp for a 2 page filter. actually i just looked at his filter and i take his half point back cuz he doesn't really have any posts pushing the game forward.
BH has been disappointing. i expected RNG -> a play or snowball it into some reads. if that was it, he could be mafia.
onegu...flip a coin.
Tumblewood - Uncc'd Doc but I don't think I'd out myself if I were the real doc just yet. Onegu - started the successful shenany. It's certainly possible that he bussed for zero reason, but if he actually performs in the future, he's town.
LS- I used to think I could read LS. While his reasoning is "weird" his reads are / used to be actually good if you disregarded what he said and zero'd on just the names.
Mafias Most likely further down.
Grackaroni - mostly ignored because I still think BH is mafia. Take away BH though, and I don't see anything towny. I think his fight with Ritoky is pure OMGUS.
Blazinghand - at first I thought his jokes after the lynch made him town. His hyperawareness on how vote switching works (him telling Ritoky that if Ritoky jumped on the wagon after it was secured, it would have looked suspicious) tells me he is quite aware of his image. So, he's making sure everyone knows he's joking and trying to get us to like him. If he doesn't do anything next days we should kill him.
beentheredonethat- I think "emotional" outbursts is a terrible reason to town someone. Vivax - I liked him until his weird shifts prior to the end of the day. His interaction with HF looked terrible.
On December 16 2015 22:09 Tubesock wrote: Towny Order Tubesock GlowingBear Koshi - had an entire post in CAPS LOCK. Ritoky Sukrit TicTock LightningStrike - 1/2 Koshitownness since his post was only 1/2 CAPS lock.
Null/mafia not necessarily in order but kinda Shapelog Damdred Rels GiygaS Kushm4sta Vivax
Shapelog I have the same suspicions everyone else does/did. I haven't really studied his filter to see what he's done after the heat was off him. Or what he did eod other than vote Kush.
Damdred I read Damdred's filter solely because of the GB hammer. I didn't like the shenanies but I have seen Damdred do that multiple times as town. Damdred doesn't address GB or Kush at all in his filter and only mentions Vivax with T-4 minutes to EOD. I think he had about 2 reads. I think Rels is right taht he is disinterested in the game. I disagree that it is mafia motivated though. Damdred in my eyes is like Marv/Palmar/Holyflare/BH, if they are alive d4 it's because they are mafia.
Rels There is a lot I don't like. I really dislike how he targeted LS and once LS went half caps lock Rels backed off. To me it looked like Rels was backing off from a fight which I don't think town Rels does. The next thing he does is finds out Onegu's smurf. I clicked the link, it was page 46 of a 134 page game. There's got to be some easy way to do that I can't really believe he went through the database to wade through games. Shit I went through LS games to see if he did the scum/town bold thing and that took forever. (0 instances of his scum games, 4 instances otherwise not counting this one). After he backs off LS, I vote him and he goes sort of after GiygaS. Later he cases Damdred then really dislikes me. So everyone of his attacks is against a lurker and OMGUS's.
I think he opportunisticly exaggerates. The shockingly different games of LS, how he is my only scum read even though I clearly was suspicious of others earlier but I didn't use the magic X person is mafia (funny I never said that about him either just voted). I think he exaggerated Damdreds meta. Damdred doesn't always play the same. If he did then I would think the veterans here would say they read him well or immediately. I also feel like he knewGlowingBear would flip town. I also think this play is well within his mafia range. he was prettygood in the witch game I read.
The big doubt is if Kushm4sta is mafia or town. I don't think Rels was trying very hard to save GB or kill Kushm4sta. if Kush is mafia then I think Rels has to be town. He was consistent that Kush is null while he said GB is carefree town. If Kush is town then Rels can easily be mafia. Easy.
GiygaS I liked his Rels points. That's pretty much all he's done. Even rereading his filter I didn't see anything that jumps out in either direction. I liked that he didn't seem too phased during kusgate 2015. For the record I don't think anyone who read my filter would think I sheeped GiygaS on Rels. Did G reaffirm and add to things? Yes. Another Rels exaggeration.
Kushm4sta knowing his alignment helps me think more about Rels. Associative reads BAD mmmkay. But he's done jackshit. I think I've read or played with him in 3 games. He was anti-town in all of them. I think copcheck/poe him later.
On April 13 2015 05:04 Tubesock wrote: In case I die.
Town Soren / Holyflare Breshke Prplhz Rsoultin Half the Sky Jarjarbinks The Shining - I was thinking of having him in the nulls but it would essentially be a policy null. Ace was useless. I like Shining. Plus he likes my thoughts on Dwarf so there's that.
Nulls Onegu - hasn't done a lot. Waiting on his Rsoultin case Stutters695 - I see posts in his filter I like. Some I'm eh ok. I have a hard time towning him when he scums Breshke and Prplhz. I plan on rereading Breshke and Prplhz more to see if I think Stutters points are reasonable. Anyway, focusing on him Day 2. Also thinking about Prplhz's assessment of him. Bourneq - Got a lot of flack from Prplhz at the very beginning. I gave him a couple slight townpoints for something but that was basically it. Don't remember anything else about him.
On May 04 2016 15:16 Tubesock wrote: headed out for drinks and dinner. Will be back in a few hours. In the mean time:
Towns:
Kush Shape Slam Marvish Ricey jat
If I were to pick who to lynch of the "actives" as it were I'd take time deciding between killing and Fazer. I didnt' really like their answers but they are actually closer to null than anything. You can probably infer what I didn't like about them by some of the questions I directed at them.
On October 24 2016 06:37 Tubesock wrote: My scum list is scummiest to least:
Vivax, Skynx, Koshi Hamaztubo, Lord Tolkien Ritoky, GlowingBear Sicklucker
My biggest problem with this is they are all lurkers. Rereading Acrofales, Dandel Ion, iamperfection I just can't see how they could be mafia. Statistically though, it's improbable that mafia are all lurkers.
I think everyone in the game would kill HF if they were mafia, so it's not really informative that HF scummed: Vivax, Skynx and Koshi (also Art, beenthere,Lunat, ExO, Kurumi, GB, WoS). But if they are mafia then it would be double motivation to kill HF. Koshi already claimed hitting him.
NocturneMage was clearly tryhard so that's a good reason to kill him too. He also scummed Koshi, Skynx and Vivax. Along with Lunatic and was suspicious of Kurumi, GB, TL, ExO, Bill, Hazmatubo.
The kills also implicate Kurumi, ExO and GB. I eliminated kurumi and ExO but don't really remember why. HF was warming up to GB.
So, anyone want to talk about LT, Ritoky, or GlowingBear? I think Hazmatubo will be replaced, and I think Sicklucker will be figured out a little bit better later. (I'm right about Siclucker 50% of the time 70% of the time)
I think Keirathi is most likely town of the 4. I'd like to hear what Kurumi thinks about Kei. Along with the other confirmed towns, Breshke and Slam.
Sep. I felt like he's "off". But then I think about the Geript "ninja" set up and wifom myself into black holes.
I really don't know about Slam. He does have 3 days to prove useful though. I think he's 65% town.
I've been thinking a lot about Lightningstrike lately. I don't know.
Unless people think Bats is possibly town, he's my next pick. Even Fecal who I was pretty sold was the ninja is more useful.
Tell me which ones are from scum TS and which ones came from Town TS. I know the answer. Lmao these all look very similar to me. Gonna have to find a better meta read fam.[/QUOTE] Was about to say... although I apparently played a game with tubesock :o I'm betting he was a scummer there. Or maybe I was. I honestly don't remember anything about him :o
On March 14 2019 05:00 darthfoley wrote: The only thing worthwhile in the Acro case on Onegu is his absolute insistence that no one gets any town cred from lynching Sentinel. That was overplayed and Onegu has seemed pretty chill in this game outside of those posts
"Seeming pretty chill" is pretty easy when you avoid talking about the game. The last 10 or so posts are a pretty good example. Needling me for details about my role (setup speculation) that leads nowhere at all. It looks as if he's busy, but really he's just present without doing anything.
It's also not the lack of townreads. It's the lack of scumreads... or any opinions at all. I'd be willing to bet u can still cntrl-f players in his filter and find 0 results. At a guess, I'd say he hasn't talked about/with mocsta or Grack.
On March 14 2019 05:00 darthfoley wrote: The only thing worthwhile in the Acro case on Onegu is his absolute insistence that no one gets any town cred from lynching Sentinel. That was overplayed and Onegu has seemed pretty chill in this game outside of those posts
I kind of agree. I think taking forever to give any town reads may actually be more town indicative than mafia indicative. A lot of his play was dropping low quality scum reads on many posts.
On March 14 2019 05:21 Pandain wrote: @Acro thoughts on MZ?
Blehhh. I thought he was scum, but he posted some insightful stuff that made me doubt it when he actually started playing. There's still some big red flags, and there's plenty of scum to catch. But if we're going from likely scum to not likely scum he's no longer at the top.
On March 13 2019 15:15 darthfoley wrote: I don’t know if The House Of Brown would dishonor his House by breaking the town seal, but there’s always a chance. And now claiming vet in a game with lots of KP flying around; it very well could be mafia vet.
On the other hand, Tubesock doesn’t have town seals, and has been even more under the radar than me. Vivax made a good point in that list post. It feels jumbled and rando explanations cobbled together. Someone also made a point earlier about how if TS were town, mafia would’ve tried to use him as lynch bait by now, which hasn’t happened. More town points to whoever said that.
Lynch TS and then move on to Acro for pushing me today after claiming cig and not dying
I think we should stop lynching people on day 4 because they are "Under the radar". Let's lynch people who do objectively scummy things.
Also who says he's not lynch bait now?
To be fair, "being under the radar" can be a legitimately scummy thing.
On March 14 2019 05:28 LightningStrike wrote: ExO just unvote Jock for Onegu hmmm.
ExO_ has been spitting in the face of reason since the minute he entered the game.He's a rebel without a cause, and is barely even playing this game. There comes a time when we have to decide if that is townie trying with very limited time, or scum just doing whatever to not get caught.
I hope I'm dead by the time we have to make that call
On March 11 2019 08:35 LightningStrike wrote: Rels do it to me if you think I'm town as I don't think I will get killed this game since I generally not a good night kill unless they think I am blue or on the right track about something/confirmed town.
Im looking at you for scum now also... Not sure yet... My first read may have been wrong...
Well I lynched scum and Tina and Damdred(i think he kept this) called me town so believe their reads on me?
What scum did you lynch>?
The traitor that scum would have thought they were lynching town?
On March 11 2019 08:42 Grackaroni wrote: Yeah Onegu....
Most people are happy that scum got lynched.
You are in thread freaking out that the lynch will change how people are being read.
Because it is changing how people are being read.
Both of these seem completely incidental who wrote the post, as he's not actually addressing anything personal. So on that note, people whose names Onegu has not once typed:
grack DF MZ Vivax jock oats
Bonus points for ExO, as this is the one time he typed it:
On March 13 2019 21:50 Pandain wrote: It's a little bit pointless. What are you hoping to find out?
I’ll answer after him about this.
Other questions to me happy to answer.
Exo why are you voting me?
That is 6 out of 19 (18 if you exclude onegu himself) players that onegu has not even mentioned. Now if he was playing like exo or chezinu, I would expect that. But onegu thinks he's being productive.
On March 12 2019 18:41 Onegu wrote: I feels since day three I have been one of the more active players... Maybe I am wrong...
How can you be active, and not talk about 1/3 of the players still alive?! How can you not be curious about 1/3 of the players and write up your thoughts for the rest of town? This is not towngu. This is scumgu.
If you want, I will go through other people's filters, but I think almost everybody has at least a list post. Hell, probably even exo talks about other people more than onegu, and exo is somewhere doing LSD and casually interacting with the thread when it occurs to him to maybe show up and vote or so. But... space dragons. Woah man.
Oh, and those are the players he didn't mention at all. The players he hasn't talked about in any detail, discussing reads with them or about them is a lot longer.
On March 12 2019 23:00 Tubesock wrote: Acrofales - confirmed Sicklucker -he picked up why Chez is scum and FF is town Fecalfeast - bombing Chez is brilliant. I believe his claim and he’s the only hatter. Onegu - feels plus I like his mechanical analysis LightningStrike - Trust of the dead, too active for mafia LS Vivax - he’s alive because he’s useful for mafia, he does not promote town circles. Alakaslam- feels. I used to study Slam. This isn’t like any Slam I’ve ever seen. But feels. Grackaroni - he had a few posts I thought were spot on. Mocsta - probably should be null. Hmm
Jockmcplop Meapak_ziph Mr. Wiggles - I think he could be town BUT OMGUS, he half assed went after LS (LS rule), and most the dead wanted his lynch. Including Ticktock. Darthfoley - POE mostly Rels- mafia need a mason to find Traitor, Rsoultin said scum with good reason, and Ticktock, plus I think 8 blues is a bit much. Pandain- I’ll never believe that a town day vig would make this post + Show Spoiler [call 4 HF vig] +
On March 08 2019 18:43 Pandain wrote: Hey everyone. For those who don't know me, I'm pretty sure it's pretty obvious to tell when I'm town or not when I'm actually playing. Expect to see a hell of a lot more activity, and actually I was pretty up to date with the whole part of day 2 when I asked Kita to replace after I saw AMG was similarly overwhelmed like me the first day.
I won't dwell on the past too much, but Holyflare 100% needs to be vigi'd tonight. It was remarkable watching the last day.
HF talk has already spammed the thread and later tonight I'm going to be looking into others, but I want to emphasize two points.
1. Fake claimed for no town reason . I don't care about fake claims in general ,I used to do it all the time. However, when Town does it it's because they have a reason to (and holyflare already established he did not just do it for the "Lolz".) There was no reason to fake-claim, and honestly I'm not sure about how it benefits mafia but it sure as hell makes no sense from a town perspective. Also can we just kill people who outright lie for no reason?
2. Furthermore, HF dying gives a huge amount of information. If he's mafia, I actually think we can start wrapping up the game because HF has been at the center of the thread and voting thread for both days. If he actually does just turn out to be a balls-out crazy town, I think it's very safe to say a good amount of mafia probably voted for him after he made his intentions clear to vote Palmar. Either way, town is in a good position.
However, I am pleading for a vigilante to end the job. The information best helps us if we know it at the start of the day cycle.
I'm actually not even certain I would support a Holyflare day 3 lynch.
Also just FYI BC and Ace need to die with fire if either of them live to day four.
It’s so incredibly overexplainy for someone who is going to shoot Holyflare.
On March 08 2019 04:10 Oatsmaster wrote: Mafia boi
If wriggles does the same thing as you in that his case on you can be applied to him, and you are town, doesn’t that mean he’s also town? How does it mean he’s mafia
I never scumread him. So, it’s hilarious you are saying I’m scum for this, but apparently Wiggles is somehow town for doing exactly that. Take a look at my two posts:
On March 06 2019 18:52 Tubesock wrote: Wiggles, you’ve been scumming me since before I even scummed Trfel. Yet you’ve never voted me. Why not? You seem pretty convinced, you have some others who agree. Think about what you say because I’m going to have great satisfaction copy and pasting things from your case on me in my defense.
On March 06 2019 21:47 Tubesock wrote: Wiggles is funny to me. I feel like I can just take his case on me, and find/replace his name for mine and submit it with equal fervor. Plus we voted on both wagons so we can’t be too far off.
Why do you think i wrote the big and bold?? It’s a fucking trap and you fell right into it.
Oatsmaster didn’t bother to read anything more than the single post and looking for “reads” at the shallowest of levels. You went straight to Tube is mafia because of this “slip” you found. Yet you had no idea it was a trap and you fell into it!!!
This action on your part is representative of your entire game. You are mafia.
Oatsmaster, who waffles on Mr. Wiggles, immediately takes Wiggles word without hesitation or investigating the truthfulness of either mine or Wiggles filter and says I’m scum. This of course was based on a flat lie that Oatsmaster didn’t bother at all to investigate. He shouldn’t have trusted Wiggles word as he didn’t show any indication that he strongly townread Wiggles. A town always distrusts, and when I confronted Oats, he was just “oh I’m wrong, whoops” and then just did whatever he was doing. I would think town would question Wiggles a bit after that. Chezinu - there’s four scenarios concerning the Great FF/Chezinu Mad Hatter Debate of 2019. 1)Both are Mafia. This would be so goddamn genius. Lynch one they flip mafia and the other is confirmed town with 0% chance of being questioned for not being NK’d. Having a backup Cop flip day one and HF going on how this is a themed game I can see a world where Chez and FF think up this shit. Especially if Sicklucker is mafia also. They’re all crafty. But I think it is unnecessary and considering there’s only two dead mafia, I think it’s unlikely. But yolo end of era plays. HF tried one. 2) Fecalfeast/Chezinu- a one for one would be a complete waste. Almost zero chance. 3) both town- possible. Mafia could hold the shot on FF hoping they could mlynch Chezinu, and then shoot FF if he places a bomb on a mafia friendly target the next night. Seems needlessly risky for two free dead towns. 4)FecalfeastCezinu- mafia would never shoot in this instance unless for some crazy bad reason they thought FF was lying about his bomb. I think this is by far the most likely situation. My vote will not waver from Chezinu. I haven’t had internet since Thursday. Apologies. This Thursday and Friday I probably won’t have it again. There were technical difficulties at work.
I’m caught up, going to be rereading stuff. I’ll be here for several hours.
I mean this is a bad post and the only reason I don't feel bad if TS gets lynched, but I wouldn't lynch him just on this.
It doesn't bother you in the slightest that acrofales is somehow confirmed even though his role description is out of the ordinary, and he's calling you scum?
Run me through how this is scum, rather than just dumb?
On March 14 2019 06:26 Vivax wrote: Went through TS filter again to double check my read. Besides his big post, I actually got a townie feeling from it. Waffle.
I mean, I need to take a long hard look at Mr. Plop, but unless you have a huge red flag somewhere, I am gonna follow my D1 and 2 thoughts that he's probably town.
On March 12 2019 23:00 Tubesock wrote: Chezinu - there’s four scenarios concerning the Great FF/Chezinu Mad Hatter Debate of 2019. 1)Both are Mafia. This would be so goddamn genius. Lynch one they flip mafia and the other is confirmed town with 0% chance of being questioned for not being NK’d. Having a backup Cop flip day one and HF going on how this is a themed game I can see a world where Chez and FF think up this shit. Especially if Sicklucker is mafia also. They’re all crafty. But I think it is unnecessary and considering there’s only two dead mafia, I think it’s unlikely. But yolo end of era plays. HF tried one. 2) Fecalfeast/Chezinu- a one for one would be a complete waste. Almost zero chance. 3) both town- possible. Mafia could hold the shot on FF hoping they could mlynch Chezinu, and then shoot FF if he places a bomb on a mafia friendly target the next night. Seems needlessly risky for two free dead towns. 4)FecalfeastCezinu- mafia would never shoot in this instance unless for some crazy bad reason they thought FF was lying about his bomb. I think this is by far the most likely situation. My vote will not waver from Chezinu. I’m caught up, going to be rereading stuff. I’ll be here for several hours.
On March 12 2019 11:51 Oatsmaster wrote: Can we talk about vivax? He should be 100% gone by now also 1000% gone. I wanna say the ace kill means that scum knew that sent was mafia
Wtf does this mean? Why?
Because he was the alternative lynch so they got scared that he would be confirmed town because they knew how the votes fell
I don't really buy this reason. I think they killed Ace because it's Ace and he was starting to play. He didn't get lynched.i don't think they feared he was confirmed town, just that he's Ace. The really weird kill is TT.
Kill onegu tomorrow. He was pushing chezinu above all else.
I don't think vivax is scum for this. But all the last minute hopping was pretty dumb. Why the fuck are all the townies jumping about 2 minutes before lunch?
On March 14 2019 08:26 LightningStrike wrote: TS still needs to get lynched though too....
Nah. No way of knowing this wasn't two town wagons. If you're town, then you know all the last minute hops were town, so there were no scum shenanigans. And if you're scum, then we don't want to follow your lunch suggestions.
On March 12 2019 23:00 Tubesock wrote: Chezinu - there’s four scenarios concerning the Great FF/Chezinu Mad Hatter Debate of 2019. 1)Both are Mafia. This would be so goddamn genius. Lynch one they flip mafia and the other is confirmed town with 0% chance of being questioned for not being NK’d. Having a backup Cop flip day one and HF going on how this is a themed game I can see a world where Chez and FF think up this shit. Especially if Sicklucker is mafia also. They’re all crafty. But I think it is unnecessary and considering there’s only two dead mafia, I think it’s unlikely. But yolo end of era plays. HF tried one. 2) Fecalfeast/Chezinu- a one for one would be a complete waste. Almost zero chance. 3) both town- possible. Mafia could hold the shot on FF hoping they could mlynch Chezinu, and then shoot FF if he places a bomb on a mafia friendly target the next night. Seems needlessly risky for two free dead towns. 4)FecalfeastCezinu- mafia would never shoot in this instance unless for some crazy bad reason they thought FF was lying about his bomb. I think this is by far the most likely situation. My vote will not waver from Chezinu. I’m caught up, going to be rereading stuff. I’ll be here for several hours.
On March 14 2019 02:58 Tubesock wrote: ##Vote: Oatsmaster
???
Screw the impression of his filter, I'm staying on this fishy dude.
Why did you selectively quote that? Neither Chez nor Oats are getting lynched and he has Oats in big red letters too.
It's a throwaway vote? His best bet is to try and get Chezinu lynched. And not voting for your own survival is something I have seen mafia and town do in the past, but playing to win as town is to get the next of your scumreads lynched that comes after you on the chopping block.
Acrofales why does my argument only reach to you one minute before EoD?
On March 14 2019 08:26 LightningStrike wrote: TS still needs to get lynched though too....
Nah. No way of knowing this wasn't two town wagons. If you're town, then you know all the last minute hops were town, so there were no scum shenanigans. And if you're scum, then we don't want to follow your lunch suggestions.
If TS is scum though wouldn't it be wise for a mafia to just change their vote to save their buddy in EoD shannies like that? We can't clear all the vote switching on that alone.
Chezinu wasn't an option until half an hour before lunch.
Last minute hops were: Vivax: tried to jump back Slam: jumped back You: maybe scum Me: jumped the other way
So... no scum was jumping at the last minute to kill chezinu except you.
On March 14 2019 08:26 LightningStrike wrote: TS still needs to get lynched though too....
Nah. No way of knowing this wasn't two town wagons. If you're town, then you know all the last minute hops were town, so there were no scum shenanigans. And if you're scum, then we don't want to follow your lunch suggestions.
If TS is scum though wouldn't it be wise for a mafia to just change their vote to save their buddy in EoD shannies like that? We can't clear all the vote switching on that alone.
Chezinu wasn't an option until half an hour before lunch.
Last minute hops were: Vivax: tried to jump back Slam: jumped back You: maybe scum Me: jumped the other way
So... no scum was jumping at the last minute to kill chezinu except you.
I am town though. Unless you think mafia is sleeping at EoD there is no way to really tell though?
So if you're town, then you know there was no scum shenannying ONTO Chezinu. And that means they weren't trying to save TS.
On March 14 2019 08:36 Vivax wrote: Alright, next guess, with a decent amount of tinfoil in it, especially on jock and acrofales.
Oats, TS, DF, Rels, Jock, and one of MZ or Onegu for last, not sure for mafia
Acrofales for serial killer
If this is correct, mafia is just aiming to eliminate townies until they can get rid of acrofales through a lynch and acrofales needs to kill mafia tonight.
I would fucking love to have the KP to shoot scum. Unfortunately I spent my single bullet on Damdred.
On March 14 2019 08:36 Vivax wrote: Alright, next guess, with a decent amount of tinfoil in it, especially on jock and acrofales.
Oats, TS, DF, Rels, Jock, and one of MZ or Onegu for last, not sure for mafia
Acrofales for serial killer
If this is correct, mafia is just aiming to eliminate townies until they can get rid of acrofales through a lynch and acrofales needs to kill mafia tonight.
If you think TS is scum, why don't you think scum tried to save him?
Went over the votes again. It was literally 3 votes hopping around: LS, Slam and Vivax that killed Chezinu. Slam moved back, Vivax tried to (might be fake), and LS looks town for different reasons. So scum was not trying to save Tubesock with last minute shenanigans.
Moreover, TS didn't try to save himself by voting Chezinu. At the time of his surrender the competiting wagon was Onegu, so I didn't find it too surprising, but unless TS and Onegu are scum together and all the scum is afk at the deadline, it looks like TS is a town wagon, and he had just given up on defending himself.
In general, Slam waffling about and ending up on what is at least not the wrong wagon feel very towny.
Other than that, I'm just upset that I make a giant case on how townie Chezinu is and you go and lunch him. Like, that's twice this game, and this time I don't get to blame HF. It was clearly a collective town fail.
Tomorrow there's going to be 15 ppl alive if the KP stays the same. Pretty sure if you don't lynch scum, it's over:
Formula 1: #scum/2 rounded up (traitor doesn't count) 10 town vs 5 scum Lynch scum, kill 2 town: 8v4 Lynch scum, kill 2 town: 6v3 Lynch scum, kill 1 town: 5v2 Breathing space: town bought themselves a final mislynch.
If you lynch town: Lynch town, kill 3 town: 6v5 Lynch scum, kill 2 town: 4v4 and it's over.
So HAVE TO kill 3 scum in a row.
Formula 2: flat 3 KP, unknown number of mafia: 15-X vs X Lynch scum, kill 3 town: 12 - X vs X - 1. Lynch scum, kill 3 town: 9 - X vs X - 2. Lynch scum, kill 3 town: 6 - X vs X - 3. Lunch scum, kill 3 town??? 3- X vs X - 4.
This obviously cannot continue and the last scum must be dead here, so X <= 4 in this scenario. X < 4 would make the scumread too small for the game, IMHO. So balance says that scum should be exactly 4 here, and to win, town needs to kill all scum in a row, starting now.
So what I'll do tonight is give you a list of the 4 scummiest shits and you lynch them in order. If KP stays 3, then you are in the bottom scenario and every day is lylo. If you're in the top scenario, you can take a brief breath after killing the three scummers.
Obviously I'm expecting to be dead tomorrow, but maybe there's a backup medic. Who knows.
Who not to lynch: Confirmed town: Acrofales: says so in my role pm Pandain replaced by AMG replaced by Pandain: led the lynch off ace and onto sentinel.
Town: Fecalfeast: counterclaimed hatter, didn't get shot for having a bomb on a veteran townie. Also for wifom (and scum made it work). Vivax: seems a bit all over the place, but nothing indicates scumvax. Also, point me to a vivax scumgame where he has a 20 page filter. LightningStrike: has been playing townie. tubesock: the way the wagon played out. Also start of game "feels". Mr. Wiggles: started rocky, but the radio show is both fun and informative. Would make me sad if he's scum, so I refuse to believe that. It also makes me sad that our playtimes literally never coincide. Rels: role reasons only. The way he is using his role seems townie, and both rsoultin and LS appear to think he's behaving townie with it. But I have not seen enough scumhunting to be suuuuper confident here. Still, pretty likely town. Alakaslam: waffling about with his vote in a way I don't think scum does. Low effort into scumhunting, but that's probably slammy, rather than scummy. Mocsta: despite some lingering doubts, he just seems to be playing in a carefree not-too-angry way. He's wily as scum, but I don't think he's that wily. He has not been tunneled, has had good insights (unfortunately, like most of us so far, on town reads), and is one of the more active players in the game. I was actually planning on putting him with the corner cases, but upgraded to town, because it just looks right.
CornerCases I'll put a bit more effort into these, because this is probably where scum is gonna try to push the mislynch to, if you let them. Also, because I am fallible and might be wrong, so should probably give my reasoning.
JockMcPlop Honestly, reading through his filter he just looks like a lost and bewildered townie, trying to keep up with the thread and the reasoning and not quite managing. I mean, it might be a total cop-out, but I think this is likely a totally truthful account of why Jock kinda dropped off in usefulness after the beginning of N2 or so (also, he claims being sick. I loved Kita's flavour! It's like half the game is cursed by an assortment of maladies, since killing our medic): + Show Spoiler [jock is clueless townie] +
On March 13 2019 06:55 Grackaroni wrote: I'd actually put Jock in the lean scum category at the moment.
He's clearly very intelligent but he reads so sterile to me. It's like he's missing a certain spark of townie first game excitement. Just a lot of pointing out of the least useful filters.
Here's the problem I'm having at the moment: At first it was pretty fun going through filters and looking for contradictions and errors in consistency that could lead me to think people are scum. Everyone was doing the same things and some of my points were taken on board. As the game has progressed, more reads are to do with obscure/complex game mechanics and long chains of logic and with this stuff I genuinely have nothing to add and feel a bit stupid because I wouldn't know where to begin looking to get reads like that. The last 2 days (game time) I have been mostly confused and a little bit out of the game because of it. I'm reading everything and trying to get up to speed but the nature of the game at this point has completely changed from the beginning and I feel disadvantaged by it.
Also, this was frigging hilarious, and I don't think scum playing the persona of someone lost and confused bothers to play threadcop a couple of hours later upon reentering the thread:
On March 14 2019 00:42 Jockmcplop wrote: SLAM
You've had your page, mate, no more posting for you until page 387
So absolutely, big drop in activity and usefulness since D1, but the feels are still there and the justification for why is completely coherent with a townie. Trust me, I got a good feeling about this guy.
Nullish
Meapack_Ziphh Remember how we concluded from the D1 and D2 votes that scum was just afk letting us do our thing? The above two guys fit the bill, and so does Mr MZ. Also with what is a completely plausible excuse: he's flying around the whole country on business thingies and posting on hotel/airport wifi. I believe him. But even with that excuse he isn't doing much. Nevertheless, there just isn't much reason to call him scum, and he has some townish tells as well as some scummish ones. He is NOT a good lynch tomorrow or the day after.
His spreadsheet update: he said he had kept it updated on an excel up to the start of D2, and after that got swamped. Problem is that the latest version of his spreadsheet only includes the D2 flips, not anybody's updated reads. In other words, if this is his scumhunting tool, he has only gone far enough with it to get an accurate picture of what people were thinking on D1... and not even that is all that accurate (going off my own memory of when I had what reads, I backed off both grack and oats pretty quickly during the day). So the spreadsheet goes from a town tell to a "look at me, I'm putting in work" tell. This is not a scumtell, just explaining why it is no longer a town tell.
What makes him scum are some big red flags: D1 he was afk for the vote and ended the day with his vote parked conveniently off-wagon: a wagon that had been dead for a long time by then. He wasn't around to push that lynch, and nobody else was either. Being AFK could explain this, but being AFK can explain half the game here.
On March 05 2019 07:36 Jockmcplop wrote: I've been keeping up but not posting. Shouldn't trfel be here defending himself if he's scum instead of that 'take it or leave it' bullshit?
On March 05 2019 07:56 Jockmcplop wrote: I'm voting trfel because so many people have reads on him and I'm not sure what's going on with BH at all.
Soo post one suggests that you think trfel is town and then you decide to vote for him as scum bc "you don't know whats going on with BC"
HMMMMMM
Also you're one of those HF lurker voters...
On March 05 2019 18:37 Jockmcplop wrote:
On March 05 2019 18:29 rsoultin wrote: i'm done with you acro. go back to something interesting, if you can manage it. calling your maybes in your reads list bad was a good start
@jock uhhuh...yeah i don't get how you read this game and claim that hf didn't have a scumread on palmar that he made overwhelmingly clear multiple times including his intention to use the mayor lynch to vote him. if your uncommitted to any pov is your way of saying he's scum i guess that makes some sense but it's a lot of words just to nullread someone
At one point he said he wasn't going to lynch palmar and was just using the platform to find out who would go for it. The he said that was a lie. This is the post that is making me question his motives and how genuine his palmar read was.
This is literally hours after the flip dude. What about him literally killing palmar is making you question his motives. Jock you've waffled so many times on HF in the last 24 hours I can't help but feel like you're setting yourself up for either side of an HF lynch and you're just waiting to see which way the thread goes.
You also ask a lot of questions and push very few reads. You have only one substantial post detailing who you think is scum and have done nothing to advance your case... my goodness we're gonna have quite the docket of scum once I'm done sifting through the HF voters.
I like this post mz. Welcome to the club. Not sure you want into a club with me but you're in it.
Yeah your club looks a bit like Chernobyl right now but I'll join since literally everyone has scumread me this game lmao. That said, all I'm doing rn is combing the filters on your voters list. You're retarded for killing Palmar but you may still turn out to be a town retard.
Someone else pointed out this post (don't remember who), and it does just feel like a TMI buddy post. Pretty big FoS for this.
D2 is similar to D1. Hard town reads HF and BH and votes elsewhere. While forcing consolidation is silly, hard townreading 2 people and deciding to just go do something entirely different doesn't make sense either, unless you actually try to push it. MZ didn't. He just voted and buggered off. And on D4 he stuck with Onegu til the end (with a weak townread on both chez and tubesock)
He is also going with all the hipster choices: HF vs BH? Both are town. FF vs Chez? Chez is town.
That said, there's some pretty townie stuff too. For starters, on D3 he helped lynch sentinel over ace. Even if scum thinks both are town, scum would probably prefer to kill ace. As evidenced by the fact that they shot him straight after. The vote was mostly decided by the time MZ jumped on, but still. We've seen shenannies twice now this game, and MZ made that less likely to whiffle a lynch.
On D4 he was also on the Onegu wagon. I'm not saying scum doesn't bus. But given that most of the day was about Chezinu vs TS, if both of those are town, why is MZ bothering to bus Onegu at a time it looked like Onegu might even get lynched?
Not enough adds up to scum in MZ's filter.
The scumteam:
Onegu Basically all the reasons I had yesterday, plus the tunnel onto Chezinu was on a town veteran. He didn't question himself. He just tunneled until dead. KILL WITH FIRE
darthfoley Lots of excuses and nothing good. I don't trust the image. There's no date on it (unlike onegu), and the metadata is stripped from the image when uploaded to imgur. Give us the dropbox version of it, as this could be pulling a BlazingHand (also, sticking your arm in a sling doesn't mean it's broken, it just means you have a sling lying around)!
But that's really just an excuse. Even if he really is one-armed, he's a one-armed bandit (coined from mocsta or vivax, I think), and needs to die.
On March 11 2019 06:55 darthfoley wrote: Bah bah black sheep mode initiated. Don’t have the energy or time to think for myself this cycle. Acro I follow your lead wheresver it take me
#Vote: Ace
This is still the worst excuse for a sheep in the game, as he didn't actually follow me wherever it took him. He just used it as a quick reason to vote ace and bugger off. I don't even mind the fact that he's saying he'll sheep me. I kinda sorta understand that. I just don't think this is a legit sheep. When pushed for reads they feel forced. If he's actually phonetyping I kinda get that. I noticed that on D1 my phoneposts got FoS'd a lot more than from the PC, because it's (1) hard to keep a train of thought, and (2) hard to write proper sentences, because everything just takes sooooooooo damn long. That makes the end result look constructed and somewhat incoherent. Probably worse when typing with one hand. But still. Nothing in this reads post adds up: + Show Spoiler [longish post] +
On March 13 2019 06:55 darthfoley wrote: Okay so I just spent an hour reading the last 15-20 pages. I get why y’all are annoyed with me for low activity but that’s just the way the cookie has crumbled. Don’t expect cases cuz I’m on one handed mobile
I don’t understand why everyone is shocked Ace got NK’d. I’m pretty sure he’s some old school legend and he had just beaten a lynch. Mafia was probably just afraid he’d come out guns blazing. TW was an obvious kill; TT I thought had been finally Town and doing the TT thing of being in his own bubble and pushing things that people didn’t interact with. Of any of them, he’s the guy I’d peg as dying for having correctly identified scum.
Definitely getting to the point where having vixax and Acro around w/ only one scum flipped on D4 is sus. I’m moreso sus of Acro because there was a lot of heat on him D1, he wiggles out of it, hasn’t really been scum read since, claimed blue and is still living. Compare that to Ace who survived one round of lynching and was immediately kaput. Plus he’s pushing me today instead of trying to figure out FF/Chez. I know that means nothing to you guys, but I’m easy lynch bait this far into the game (deservedly so). I still fail to see his issue with my handling of the mayor vote D1, but he tries to make that some coup de grace.
Part of me still thinks that we caught MZ warly day one and somehow talked ourselves out of it days later. He pulled out some ExO quote from his filter but misrepresented it for another easy lynch candidate. Also
On March 13 2019 03:37 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Acro and oats are either of you looking for reads on particular people?
I'm mainly looking for reads on you with this line of questioning. Any insight into the wagons of the day would be appreciated tho.
Those seem to be: you, TS, Chez, DF, maybe FF, maybe Slam.
I've had chez as town since d1, i wouldn't feel comfortable lynching into him until it was like 2v1 and I had a strong read on the other person.
I still think FF is scum.
I reread DF earlier today, i wouldn't put him as my number 1 scum read but he definitely pushed a lot of bad wagons that ended up on town.
I have no idea how to read slam
TS could be scum.
Also another note on rels: why in the world was rsoul shot instead of him? Like the whole mason thing pretty much confirmed her as town in many people's eyes but then scum shot TT and Ace instead of any other claims?
This is the most shallow reasoning of me being scum ever. In a game where ONE scum has been lynched. I haven’t been active enough to push wagons, and even if I did I’m part of a town that has almost exclusively pushed town wagons. Acro and MZ pushing me with little substance besides, “he’s inactive!” when we have two mad hatter sort of claims and neither one got targeted last night is poo poo. Sure it might be OMGUS but it’s apparently the last TL mafia game so sue me.
I feel like I have no idea what Rels or Mocsta have posted about anything. Rels seems too cordial and Mocsta too sensitive. But tbf I haven’t read huge chunks of the game.
From my understanding of how the claims went down, plus what SL said, Chez is probably scum and should be lynched.
Oats and Grack feel unconstrained from mafia agenda and feel Town. FF is probably legit unless they really are on some last game 3D chess. L I think ExO is just a town like me who got overwhelmed and decided they didn’t care as much as they expected to; we had similar reactions to a few events in the game.
Onegu/Wiggles/TS/etc I haven’t read enough of them to know. If you put s rope around my neck and forced me to choose, wiggles RP feels authentic and townie, TS has been so far under the radar that he may have become the radar
2 OMGUSs Kill Chezinu because sheep SL. A bunch of null reads And a bunch of hedged town reads.
And that's his "big reads" post in the second half of the game.
Also, my earlier case on him still stands: his voting has been suspect on pretty much every single election, starting with the D1 mayor election.
Oatsmaster I was not expecting to find a smoking gun in Oats's filter, but I did. So he's scum.
Oats's filter just feels off. D1 he fooled me by being too in-your-face active about stuff, but looking back over his filter he really was just spamming the thread. I mean... is this a serious accusation?
On March 03 2019 08:38 Oatsmaster wrote: Also hf, so either you are town and you play serious so my read is wrong.
Or you are town and you dont play serious so my read is right in the sense that if you were serious you are mafia. But just that my judgement of your posts is wrong.
It cant be both at the same time like you are trying to portray it here.
It's your read that I'm too serious but over 50% of my filter at that point was not serious. Those posts you've quoted are also just reads. In what previous game of mine have I not given reads and instead have just done this amazing nothingness and fun you're trying to portray me as doing as town?
So the green part is that you are saying that you arent playing seriously this game in your opinion.
The bolded green part is that you are saying that you do play serious as town.
SOOOOOO ARE YOU TOWN THIS GAME HF??
It doesn't sound serious, it sounds like grandstanding.
On March 04 2019 06:53 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Voted Holyflare as mayor. Of the people running he has clearly stated what he is going to do and thus if he doesn't you can hold him accountable.
Hes also given far more content to look at than the other front runner.
Hey BC, so lets say HF is mafia and lynches Sent who is whatever alignment, how does that help us figure out Holyflare's alignment? It seems to me like you want to vote for HF not because hes town necessarily, but that the Mayoral vote can help us confirm his alignment. Can you explain that further?
This excessive politeness is completely out of place in Oats's filter. Look at how he addresses confirmed townies: + Show Spoiler [short, direct] +
On March 04 2019 07:03 Damdred wrote: HF, RS, FF,Iamp can be the strong start of a town circle, and sents posts have been overall excellent so I would say hes town as well.
So 6 people is a good start so far.
Let's contknue.
Why is FF town, and why are Sent's post excellent Dammy?
On March 03 2019 20:12 Palmar wrote: To be fair I mostly like Acro just for these two posts. They're the logical way to play the game.
Kill the policy lynch, continue playing.
On March 03 2019 17:09 Acrofales wrote: Enters Palmar: he claims to feel strongly about killing sent. So let him do it. All you need to decide is if Palmar is townie enough. But if we decide Palmar is townie enough to be mayor then he is free to kill whoever he likes. He sticks with sentinel and sentinel flips scum? We win, yay! Sheep Palmar into Armageddon. Sentinel flips town? We figure out if Palmars policy lynch is an ideological thing or a scum thing. Either way, we get information about Palmar out of this, which is a great thing to get out of D1.
On March 03 2019 17:11 Acrofales wrote: Oh, also, if sent was actually playing and being townie, I'd be more inclined to want him to live. But he has used this "foil" to be an attention whore and cop out of doing anything else so far. Not town play.
logical doesnt necessarily mean town though, especially of Sent is town. Why is this a town read Palmar?
On March 03 2019 06:16 Oatsmaster wrote: mocsta posted one post and peaced ~~ possibly town,
iamp is putting in way too much effort to be town
tictock is reaching real far for their reads
Acro actually is a lawyer and lawyers should be lynched cause they are bad men
HF too serious to be town
Ace actually posted the worst idea ive ever seen what was that nonsense
These are... not great reasons lol.
I also don't like iamp but more because of his useless posting. Acro and HF are town for me. I wanted to hear more about your conversion read but after seeing this post I'm not so sure I want to be disappointed again.
On March 03 2019 07:11 Acrofales wrote: I got to the bit where Oats starts shitting up the thread with random reads. What's the point Oats? Why just throw names out? Also, I think you called everybody in the thread except Mocsta scum... and you called him town off an utterly useless post. You padding your filter so people go like "wow, 40 pages. Must be town" when it's 40 pages of complete trash?
by everyone you mean like 10 people?
Almost rude in how direct he is. Whereas he talks to BC in a super circumspect way. It is just weeeeiiiiiiiiird. Now why would he address BC in such a completely different tone to the above people? Because it's constructed. Because he doesn't want to start a shitshow of a fight with his scumbuddy. But he also doesn't want to be caught out avoiding BC. So you get this.... weirdly polite thing, where he is sort-of coaching and sort-of questioning BC, but in a completely different way to other people.
And let me preempt you, it isn't some kind of respect for veterans. Here is his first interaction with Palmar:
On March 03 2019 20:12 Palmar wrote: To be fair I mostly like Acro just for these two posts. They're the logical way to play the game.
Kill the policy lynch, continue playing.
On March 03 2019 17:09 Acrofales wrote: Enters Palmar: he claims to feel strongly about killing sent. So let him do it. All you need to decide is if Palmar is townie enough. But if we decide Palmar is townie enough to be mayor then he is free to kill whoever he likes. He sticks with sentinel and sentinel flips scum? We win, yay! Sheep Palmar into Armageddon. Sentinel flips town? We figure out if Palmars policy lynch is an ideological thing or a scum thing. Either way, we get information about Palmar out of this, which is a great thing to get out of D1.
On March 03 2019 17:11 Acrofales wrote: Oh, also, if sent was actually playing and being townie, I'd be more inclined to want him to live. But he has used this "foil" to be an attention whore and cop out of doing anything else so far. Not town play.
logical doesnt necessarily mean town though, especially of Sent is town. Why is this a town read Palmar?
Although, the real cheeky Oats only shines through here:
Havent read why Oatsmaster is mafia in your case. Just that you dont understand and dislikes his playstyle.
I read Oatsmaster his filter. My conclusion: Not a townread, but too aggressive and confrontational to be a mafia read and d1 lynch.
Oats early filter is super bad because it's just aggressiveness with no actual goal behind it, but this roughly mirrors my feeling when I skimmed his filter yesterday.
Oats just needs to calm the fuck down a bit and play slower but more focused, but it's Oats so who knows.
He could very well be mafia but I think we have better shots (like Conversion or Sentinel)
On March 03 2019 02:10 Ace wrote: I think we should nominate someone who has barely posted yet as Mayor. There are a lot of thoughts already posted that could help us draw conclusions based on conversations.
Giving a semi-lurking/lurking player lynch power and forcing them into the game seems like a good move to me. So a player like Tumblewood or tubesock should be nominated (they've barely posted from a cursory filter check).
mafia
So not veteran reverence. Just scumbuddy awkwardness. GG.
PS. I checked onegu and DF, and he acts normally with onegu (albeit far later in the game), and completely avoids talking to DF. After you lynch Oats take a good hard look at his filter, this looks to be rife with associations.
PS 2. Bloodycobbler, btw, doesn't respond, and Oats never mentions it again. Make of that what you will. I noted it mainly for the completely different tone when talking to BC than to HF or me.
TLDR Soooo... those are your 3 scummers that you gotta gotta gotta lynch first.
Ranked from surest to least sure in my mind:
1. Oats. This association tell is pretty fucking damning if you ask me. On top of all the other stuff. 2. Onegu. Doing nothing, and when he does something, it's terrible. 3. DF. Big bad blehhhhh.
TheScummies
Three guys for max 2 remaining scum. Hard choices beyond the first three above. Here's my thoughts.
Sicklucker
There comes a time where being "too bouncy and all over the place" no longer cuts it. Here is my earlier case:
On March 03 2019 08:18 sicklucker wrote: Not sure about oats but i think its more likely people forgot how oats played mafia when hes trying. Nothing really stood out for me
Read progression please. You have insight on Oats?
Other than that, there's a few red flags in SL's filter, but overall he seems too bouncy and all over the place to be scum. I don't really know SL's scumgame at all, but I get the feeling from his filter that he's playing the town game and happy to be doing so.
On March 03 2019 11:26 Palmar wrote: So this is not a joke, I am going to do nothing but vote Sentinel until he comes in to the thread and says "I have read my role PM". Just pile votes on him because he's playing a strategy that's only advantageous to mafia.
On March 05 2019 10:20 sicklucker wrote: i feel pretty dumb voting hf for mayor now I didnt think he was killing palmar at the time which is insanely stupid in a game with so many anti towners. if marv plays good and obv town ill happily sheep him
HF was nothing if not obvious about what he was going to do. Even if you don't think he's serious, if you have a strong townread on Palmar (strong enough to mention it anyway, which is more than he did for anyone except LS... and maybe rsoul). SL was there for at least part of that push, so why is he still voting HF?
Minor red flag: has a scumread on conversion, but is all chummy with marv on N1.
Combine this with the voting behaviour and he is the most likely 4th scummer.
Note that on D4 he is one of the people who completely ignores my Chezinu = town case. He parked his vote on Chez, and went to do other random stuff, despite coming in last minute with a proposal to derail onto Oats (when it was far too late for any such things).
Grackaroni
On March 14 2019 04:14 Grackaroni wrote: I think the Chezinu green post is completely wrong. If he wanted to get shot he would have done some analysis, which he usually actually starts to do later in the game as town. This game he got called out and then started jabbering about being a mad hatter, and then when that role was counterclaimed he switched claims.
Also he's been softing blue roles for a while now.
On March 03 2019 17:10 Blazinghand wrote: Hey friends! hope everyone is doing well. I'm still catching up on page 19, it seems like we have a lot of activity which is great. I won't be going for the usual random lynch thing this time around, but I do have a suggestion that might help out if we're having trouble deciding on the lynch. Let me know if there's anything urgent I need to weigh in on as I catch up.
Well I’ll be damned
I don't RNG *every* time, heh.
Why not RNG Palmar? I know you can rig that shit.
This is crazy! I had a dream last night we eliminated 3 mafia in the night post. Palmer was second on the list. It was crazy seeing red at the end of day 1 in my dreams...
From what I can tell from my snooping, this was supposed to be a breadcrumb for the role "Dreamflower" which is a town role that gets KP and then dies if the person he shoots isn't scum.
Please let us know if you notice any mistakes. The deadline is Sunday, Mar 10 11:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00), which is in .
This is why i want chez to die. Tumbletown vivax town ff town acro town grack not scummy. Slam who i used to think was town and big mafis bus driver. He once bussed me when i was are teams only hope when i was gone for the day
this is my post from yesterday that i think everyone missed
On chez wagon we have activity confirmed town vivax counterclaiming confirmed ff. dead townie tumblewood. sort of likely town acro. Thats 4 very likely to be town players .
On the other wagon we have oats, jock chez ticktock and me . Ya there is probably 2 or 3 mafia in that
This is actually an argument I like.
Idk is there even any way we don't lynch scum today? I'm not sure.
I don't expect to lynch scum. I think we're losing atm.
This just seems like TMI. The leading vote at the time was TS, with Onegu and Chezinu in close pursuit. Grack was scumming Chezinu, both in posts and in vote, and hs this to say about LS's meta case (and Vivax's feels case) on TS:
1,2,3 was Mafia Tubesock the others were Town Tubesock he does actually put more words on his list posts as scum
Oh nice. You're right I actually do see a noticeable difference between the top 3 posts and the bottom 3.
Good post.
So he agrees with LS's basic meta case that TS uses different language as scum than as town, and that the list post in this game is more like his scum lists (note, this meta case was bad enough that LS dropped it himself a few posts later).
In other words, Grack appears to believe TS and Chez are scum... yet is despondent that we won't lynch scum. That is a pretty big TMI in my book.
Even I, who was townreading TS, thought there was a good chance we'd lynch scum (if we had actually managed to lynch him), at the time.
I scummed him for his entry into the game, then towned him when he started playing, but I think that's probably a mistake. Heavy FoS on Grack for being the final scum.
ExO_ Fucked if I know what ExO_ is doing here. He isn't doing anything outright scummy that I can see, but he isn't doing anything that helps town either. He's almost daring us to lynch him. If he's a VT he needs to start taking the game more seriously. Hopefully we are in the situation where there is a possible mislynch when it's down to 5-2, and you can pressure ExO_ with a lynch without risking losing the game. Maybe if sufficiently under pressure he'll do something townie. Or maybe you can find something associative after flipping some scums. For now, just leave him be.
THERE IS A SUPER ELEGANT SOLUTION FOR THIS IF YOU STILL HAVE YOUR BOMB.
Place your bomb on Onegu. As long as both you and Onegu are alive, lynch the other scummers. If the game is down to 5-2 and both are still alive, you can lynch him safely. It either goes down to 4-1 or it was 4-2-1 to begin with, and goes down to standard lylo at 3-2 the next day.
If you die and Onegu lives, he was 3p survivor with a bulletproof vest. If you die and Onegu flips, then we know what he was from the flip.
@LS: interesting. Your thoughts on MZ got a bit snowed under in the thread. I remembered TT, but didn't really connect that. However, am I right in reading that that is 99% you and 1% Rels.
In general, the log looks a bit lopsided with you posting most of the content, and him just sorta nodding along.
On March 15 2019 02:39 Acrofales wrote: @LS: interesting. Your thoughts on MZ got a bit snowed under in the thread. I remembered TT, but didn't really connect that. However, am I right in reading that that is 99% you and 1% Rels.
In general, the log looks a bit lopsided with you posting most of the content, and him just sorta nodding along.
Take in mind some of was me talking in the qt to vent a little a some of it was to put my thoughts in the qt so I can engage with rels. Another thing to consider is that he generally been afk so ofc it will look more like me talking more than him due to that.
I looked over onegu's filter and most of my reasons for scumreading him is his utter disinterest in finding scum. That is totally explainable as 3p. However, it's also totally explainable as scum. So here goes:
If onegu is scum, see my previous post, and you just gotta kill him.
If onegu is a survivor: Formula 1, nothing changes, except that instead of it being 5v2 after lynching 3 scum, its 4v2v1. Imho, always lynch onegu at this point, unless you caught a 4th scummer redhanded doing scummy-as-fuck stuff. Otherwise, you can't distinguish between 5v2 and 4v2v1, and lynching town in the 4v2v1 situation means town loses. Lynching the claimed 3p is a "safe play". He is definitely not town, as town doesn't claim 3p unless they want to lose the game, and he might just be scum trying to escape. Note that it isn't safe to lynch onegu the 3p *before* you get down to the single NK in this formula.
Formula 2: Without a medic, we have already lost: 14-X vs X vs 1 11-X vs X - 1 vs 1 8-X vs X - 2 vs 1 5 - X vs X - 3 vs 1 If X = 4 this is endgame. So either FF blows up a scummer with a bomb (meaning scum are a bunch of fricking idiots) or we still have a medic floating about.
In either case, if we get the medic save, it is never safe to lynch onegu the 3p. It is always necessary to lynch onegu the scum. At some point town is gonna have to decide what onegu is.
Onegu the SK.
This scenario just seems really really unlikely. Non-compulsive SKs are such a broken role that I don't think we got one. Which means that *either* the SK stacked KP 3 times, for which we only have circumstantial evidence on N1, or the scumteam has only 2 KP.
Neither of these scenarios seems likely at all. So I'd rule out this scenario. Moreover, I actually checked the OP, and it says:
The town's win condition:
The town wins when all mafia are eliminated.
This seems pretty clearcut. There is no malevolent 3p in the game, or this wincon wouldn't work. So onegu is not an SK.
THERE IS A SUPER ELEGANT SOLUTION FOR THIS IF YOU STILL HAVE YOUR BOMB.
Place your bomb on Onegu. As long as both you and Onegu are alive, lynch the other scummers. If the game is down to 5-2 and both are still alive, you can lynch him safely. It either goes down to 4-1 or it was 4-2-1 to begin with, and goes down to standard lylo at 3-2 the next day.
If you die and Onegu lives, he was 3p survivor with a bulletproof vest. If you die and Onegu flips, then we know what he was from the flip.
On March 15 2019 04:34 ExO_ wrote: Why is Tubesocks' vote parked on Oatmaster and not chez yesterday as well, wtf is that nonsense. It doesn't make sense from a scum or VT perspective.
Actually it only makes sense from a scum perspective.
No. Surviving a lunch is good for everyone except scum with another scum as the only viable counterteam. That wasn't the case and was the bit that I didn't think through at flip. But mostly I just wanted to save chezinu.
Anyway, the counterwagon was totes town, so scum would always park their vote there "in self preservation" and not doing that is bad play as either alignment. So NAI.
Anyway, going over Oats filter again. Maybe the whole scumteam is in there. Kill him tomorrow!!!! Do not waffle on this!!!!
K, gone through Oats's filter. Not much new there.
I like Grackaroni's pointing out the wiggles exchange. I'm not sure it's awkward for the tone tho, and rather oats waffling on the read for no apparent reason. Definitely scrutinize wiggles tho. I mean, we do have a fantastic case from D1 and it needs to be looked into again after Oats flips. It's possible there's a real association there.
Grack is almost certainly town for finding this. So move him to green.
Other things:
His one and only mention in the entirety of his filter of darthfoley is to chainsaw defend him from rsoultins list. It's weird.
Not a single mention or interaction with exo.
Calls SL scum for no apparent reason. Never interacts with him until a few hours ago, which is weird.
Buddies the fuck out of me and I 100% fell for it.
If we're going off oats associations alone, onegu is probably 3p.
DISCLAIMER: Associations work a LOT better the other way round. FIRST flip Oats, who's scum for his association with BC as well as a lot of other reasons laid out in dead peoples' lists. Then look into the other side of these words interactions.
On March 13 2019 19:49 Onegu wrote: Unless we see a red flip at night from being shot I’m not even going to think about it.. if there is a third party I would put my money much more on there being a survivor...
My breadcrumb
Your "breadcrumb" is only 30 hours old? Why not post one at the start of the game? This looks like not a breadcrumb but an afterthought, were you already a serious lynch candidate 30 hours ago? I need to check the timing
Just in case Wiggles is indeed scum, have some flavour, Kita!
Mr. Wiggles thought he had left his life as a small-time crook behind him. There was some nasty business with Palmar, but he had fled the city and set up shop as a small-town radiohost, getting away from it all.
And he truly was repentant for his sins, trying to make up for it by entertaining Liquidia with a late-night radio show. The town of Liquidia loved him for it.
Alas, it was not to last. After former associate Oatsmaster fingered him for the murder on rsoultin, Ace, and a long list of others, he could no longer hide. Repenting his sins he accepted his punishment and was hung from the highest tree in town.
@TOWN this is me just having fun while I'm still alive. I will try to go through Wiggles filter and decide if he's scum, but I doubt I really have time for it. His radioshow is too entertaining for him to be scum Although Palmar has no doubt been yelling at us from the obs qt all game now.
On March 15 2019 07:08 LightningStrike wrote: Ya maybe we just kill Onegu lol
NO. KILL OATS
Have FF bomb Onegu and let scum deal with them. If FF dies without clarifying he still has a bomb, still lynch Oats first.
There isn't much reason in Onegu's filter to scumread him other than his apathy. And having played survivor, it really really really does make you apathetic. It's a boring role (see Dota 2). And mine actually had a twist where I had to not only survive, but also kill my counterpart, which makes being a survivor a bit less boring, but I had that done by like D2 or so. Was very easy.
Now survivors are still dangerous at 2v1v1 lylo (or any other lylo with a difference of 1), and I wouldn't trust Onegu further than I can throw him. But if you lynch him tomorrow and he IS a survivor, town loses.
Oats is certainly scum. DF very probably too. And then there's SL, and if the associations with Wiggles are actually there, then him too. Those are all better targets than Onegu until you can safely get rid of him (if scum kp is formula 1 and you reach 5v2 or 4v2v1).
On March 15 2019 11:52 Alakaslam wrote: Acrofales:
Why am i drawing your attention to this?
I have no idea. Because nobody has taken control of this boat?
Or because you think scum is captaining the boat?
Or because you really want to be in charge of rations?
Anyway, back to task.
I don't trust Mocsta's claim, rescinding it, or any of the reasoning around it. DF is probably scum, from my read through yesterday, but Oats is a sure thing.
On March 15 2019 16:08 Oatsmaster wrote: Also yeah I’m down for an onegu lynch
I don’t think it’s lylo, just because 4 mislynches is really punishing for town
Math me up, scumboi. How many scum are there and how do the KP work to make it not-lylo?
Do you know if the mafia traitor usually contributes to KP?
I only ask because if not, its more like 5 mislynches if you assume that the main focus of lynching early game is to reduce mafia KP rather than just kill any mafia.
I've outlined what I think are the likely scenarios for mafia KP and why we're in lylo. In neither of those does killing the traitor affect their KP.
The reason I think these are the most likely is because we can be fairly certain mafia had 3 KP on nights 2-4, and probably on night 1 as well. If we take that for true, then the only 2 formulas (that I thought of) that give a reasonable size scumteam and explain this KP number are the ones I outlined.
Killing the traitor who doesn't know about his team members and who in turn don't know about him isn't a mislynch, but it's not a clear victory either. No reduction in KP and no useful associations.
I have no idea. Because nobody has taken control of this boat?
Or because you think scum is captaining the boat?
Or because you really want to be in charge of rations?
Anyway, back to task.
I don't trust Mocsta's claim, rescinding it, or any of the reasoning around it. DF is probably scum, from my read through yesterday, but Oats is a sure thing.
We need a sure thing. So sheep me onto Oats!
Really starting to look like this
I wish this was my scumgame. I wouldn't be as worried about my reads flipping the wrong color.
That's the main reason I don't trust mocsta, btw. With Grack and SL flipping town, there's scum hiding in my townreads.
I have no idea. Because nobody has taken control of this boat?
Or because you think scum is captaining the boat?
Or because you really want to be in charge of rations?
Anyway, back to task.
I don't trust Mocsta's claim, rescinding it, or any of the reasoning around it. DF is probably scum, from my read through yesterday, but Oats is a sure thing.
We need a sure thing. So sheep me onto Oats!
Really starting to look like this
I wish this was my scumgame. I wouldn't be as worried about my reads flipping the wrong color.
That's the main reason I don't trust mocsta, btw. With Grack and SL flipping town, there's scum hiding in my townreads.
The one thing I had going this game is that I was confident in my townreads and they all flipped green. My scumreads have been off (got HF and Damdred very wrong, and others on my "possible scum" got shot). The advantage is that the pool is smaller by the minute. The disadvantage is that I don't trust the town circle anymore.
That said, Oats is surely scum. He had me confused with his bumbling, up-in-your-face activity, but he's been inconsistent in his reads, voting the wrong way and the association tell is just the final nail in his coffin.
I have no idea. Because nobody has taken control of this boat?
Or because you think scum is captaining the boat?
Or because you really want to be in charge of rations?
Anyway, back to task.
I don't trust Mocsta's claim, rescinding it, or any of the reasoning around it. DF is probably scum, from my read through yesterday, but Oats is a sure thing.
We need a sure thing. So sheep me onto Oats!
Really starting to look like this
I wish this was my scumgame. I wouldn't be as worried about my reads flipping the wrong color.
That's the main reason I don't trust mocsta, btw. With Grack and SL flipping town, there's scum hiding in my townreads.
wtf is this shit
U gave me clear town read yesterday
Pull ya head out
Today is not about ego Its about lylo survival
Do u think oats n exo can be scum together? If not. Oats cannot be the best lynch choice today.
Again. This isnt ego Darthfoley has zero redeeming features. Absolutely zilch.
Oats has exo
I don't get it. Oats and ExO_ have zero interactions with each other. Why can't they be scum together?
I have no idea. Because nobody has taken control of this boat?
Or because you think scum is captaining the boat?
Or because you really want to be in charge of rations?
Anyway, back to task.
I don't trust Mocsta's claim, rescinding it, or any of the reasoning around it. DF is probably scum, from my read through yesterday, but Oats is a sure thing.
We need a sure thing. So sheep me onto Oats!
Really starting to look like this
I wish this was my scumgame. I wouldn't be as worried about my reads flipping the wrong color.
That's the main reason I don't trust mocsta, btw. With Grack and SL flipping town, there's scum hiding in my townreads.
wtf is this shit
U gave me clear town read yesterday
Pull ya head out
Today is not about ego Its about lylo survival
Do u think oats n exo can be scum together? If not. Oats cannot be the best lynch choice today.
Again. This isnt ego Darthfoley has zero redeeming features. Absolutely zilch.
Oats has exo
Sorry, explain to me like I'm a 5 year old what the connection between oats and exo is please! Thanks
exo and oats are both playing lone wolf
Exo is complete loner but is awarw of thread sentiment Oats is loner but seems to be out of sync
The 2 styles are so different but same outcome (= loner) . I dont see both being scum.
I thought it exo was town and oats scum night 4. But acro thought exo was scummy which made me reconsider if exo could be scum and oata is playing dumb town.
Someone would have to meta dive oats and give a recent example of hom being dumb scum intentionally before i vote him in lylo with 15player pool.
This is enough doubt to lynch df or onegu over oats in my opinion
1. This is nonsense. Kita isn't going over meta to figure out playstyle and I have never ever seen a scumteam coordinate playstyles. Only pushes/buses. Never "yo dude, I'm the lone wolf doing my stuff, nobody else can be".
2. Lets assume for a second you're right and they have coordinated playstyles: there is only one lone wolf in the scum team. Why is it ExO_ and not Oats?
Anyway, BRB. Gonna go get all the reasons why Oats is scum into a single post for you, and quote it at everybody until we fucking lynch him.
Oats is Mafia 1. He acts weird when associating with known mafia.
Open up his filter, and just read it. That's what I was doing, expecting to find he was just a "lone wolf" townie, as Mocsta calls him. I wasn't even really looking at who he was talking to, just sorta reading the content. I came across his response to BC, and though "huh. That doesn't sound like Oats." And then I saw who he was talking to. I already quoted the post in my huge night post, but I think it's far better you just do this exercise for yourself.
Now go and read Ver's guide on mafia.
Now come back here and vote Oats.
1a. Grackaroni found him acting weird with Wiggles too. I kinda agree, but don't know what to make of it. Lets flip Oats first. If this is Oats just being weird with Wiggles, then we decide that. If this is Oats being weird with another one of his scumbuddies, then we got two. It's very possible, but I don't feel like casing Wiggles just to catch Oats. We case Oats to catch Oats.
I'm quoting it anyway, so everybody can make up their own mind: + Show Spoiler +
On March 07 2019 03:37 Grackaroni wrote: Wiggles and Oats
Seriously everyone stop what you're doing and read all of Oatsmaster's filter. It is snarky comment, followed by asshole question throughout the entire filter EXCEPT for one point, where he very clearly seems to be making conversation with Wiggles for no reason but because they're both online and want to distance:
Why isn’t Palmar, Blazinghand, Rels, onegu, pandain, darthFoley, etc on this list too? Are these that much different than straight policy lynches?
I think he asked this question to make Acro seem scummy for pushing low-content posters, and that conflicts with the way that Tubesock has been playing the game so far.
On March 03 2019 17:59 Tubesock wrote:
On March 03 2019 13:47 Tictock wrote: Ok, I came, I saw, I did some things. Seems like ppl are not around so gunna do other things. May check in once more before bed but I am pretty sure I am not going to fully read the stuff I missed.
I'd like someone who is wanting to lynch oats to convince me why he is scum.
Similarly as to why ppl are voting HF for mayor.
If deadline was right now/soon I would push for Meap or Grack to lynch.
You know HF was going to mayor lynch [UoN]Sentinel before it was cool right? So, the difference between HF and Palmar is HF has actually played so far and given plenty of opinions. And exactly like Chezinu said, latching onto this Sentinel policy is right up Palmars alley if both were scum. And absolutely worth it. Plus Palmar doesn’t have to do anything else, talk about skating by.
Vote HF for mayor for the Sentinel kill, ##VOTE: Palmarso he actually plays. Town win wins.
On March 04 2019 01:07 Tubesock wrote: I’m voting Trfl. Maybe he will come play.
If Tubesock is town I don't see why he should be questioning Acro's lynch choices considering his own so far.
I think this is a bad post. It's quite obvious why he questions acros posts because there's no distinction between any of those other players.
What do you think of Tubesock's deflection of my pressure earlier in the game?
On March 03 2019 06:01 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
On March 03 2019 04:41 Tubesock wrote:
On March 03 2019 04:32 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
On March 03 2019 04:25 Tubesock wrote:
On March 03 2019 04:20 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
On March 03 2019 04:05 Tubesock wrote: There isn’t anyone I want to lynch.
If I were mayor I’d sheep Holyflare most likely for the 2nd lynch.
I'm thinking I'd like to lynch you!
Or are you making this guy mayor, Ace?
That’s fair. I can vote HF for mayor sure. I don’t see how you could get me wanting Ace mayor out of what I said.
You were one of the two names Ace threw out to make someone non-contributing mayor.
Figure you're reading closely enough to say what you'd do as mayor, which no one else had mentioned but Ace, but still don't want to put forward an opinion about anyone.
Reads scummy to me.
When I have a lynch target I’ll let everyone one know. Do you want an opinion from me?
Am I and Conversion your only scumreads? Who do you want for mayor and why?
Yeah, I'd like to see some sort of contribution from you. What makes you want to support HF for mayor? Is it a scumread on Sentinel or some kind of policy lynch? You don't make that clear.
I'm cool lynching scummy people just trying to coast by on the first day without needing to stick their necks out too much. That's people like you so far, and Conversion who's re-hashing the same argument with MZ instead of moving to anything else. Guys like Acrofales and and Sent fall into this bucket for me right now too.
I'm not super thrilled with any of the mayoral candidates so far. I like HF the most from the people who've thrown their hat in since some of our reads jive. Disagree with him about Chez, his play seems par for the course from what I remember.
I asked for some kind of read, and instead got an answer of "later". I responded to their own questions and was ignored when they returned to the thread. Their posting has been very non-committal, and they still haven't really pushed a lynch target yet. The pressure votes don't come out and say, "I think this guy is scum", but are hedged as an activity motivator.
I'd like to hear more takes from others as well. Tubesock doesn't seem to get brought up much, so they're sliding by without much attention. They still haven't produced a hard read either.
Do you have an alignment read on ace from that exchanges
Why isn’t Palmar, Blazinghand, Rels, onegu, pandain, darthFoley, etc on this list too? Are these that much different than straight policy lynches?
I think he asked this question to make Acro seem scummy for pushing low-content posters, and that conflicts with the way that Tubesock has been playing the game so far.
On March 03 2019 17:59 Tubesock wrote:
On March 03 2019 13:47 Tictock wrote: Ok, I came, I saw, I did some things. Seems like ppl are not around so gunna do other things. May check in once more before bed but I am pretty sure I am not going to fully read the stuff I missed.
I'd like someone who is wanting to lynch oats to convince me why he is scum.
Similarly as to why ppl are voting HF for mayor.
If deadline was right now/soon I would push for Meap or Grack to lynch.
You know HF was going to mayor lynch [UoN]Sentinel before it was cool right? So, the difference between HF and Palmar is HF has actually played so far and given plenty of opinions. And exactly like Chezinu said, latching onto this Sentinel policy is right up Palmars alley if both were scum. And absolutely worth it. Plus Palmar doesn’t have to do anything else, talk about skating by.
Vote HF for mayor for the Sentinel kill, ##VOTE: Palmarso he actually plays. Town win wins.
On March 04 2019 01:07 Tubesock wrote: I’m voting Trfl. Maybe he will come play.
If Tubesock is town I don't see why he should be questioning Acro's lynch choices considering his own so far.
I think this is a bad post. It's quite obvious why he questions acros posts because there's no distinction between any of those other players.
What do you think of Tubesock's deflection of my pressure earlier in the game?
On March 03 2019 06:01 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
On March 03 2019 04:41 Tubesock wrote:
On March 03 2019 04:32 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
On March 03 2019 04:25 Tubesock wrote: [quote]
That’s fair. I can vote HF for mayor sure. I don’t see how you could get me wanting Ace mayor out of what I said.
You were one of the two names Ace threw out to make someone non-contributing mayor.
Figure you're reading closely enough to say what you'd do as mayor, which no one else had mentioned but Ace, but still don't want to put forward an opinion about anyone.
Reads scummy to me.
When I have a lynch target I’ll let everyone one know. Do you want an opinion from me?
Am I and Conversion your only scumreads? Who do you want for mayor and why?
Yeah, I'd like to see some sort of contribution from you. What makes you want to support HF for mayor? Is it a scumread on Sentinel or some kind of policy lynch? You don't make that clear.
I'm cool lynching scummy people just trying to coast by on the first day without needing to stick their necks out too much. That's people like you so far, and Conversion who's re-hashing the same argument with MZ instead of moving to anything else. Guys like Acrofales and and Sent fall into this bucket for me right now too.
I'm not super thrilled with any of the mayoral candidates so far. I like HF the most from the people who've thrown their hat in since some of our reads jive. Disagree with him about Chez, his play seems par for the course from what I remember.
I asked for some kind of read, and instead got an answer of "later". I responded to their own questions and was ignored when they returned to the thread. Their posting has been very non-committal, and they still haven't really pushed a lynch target yet. The pressure votes don't come out and say, "I think this guy is scum", but are hedged as an activity motivator.
I'd like to hear more takes from others as well. Tubesock doesn't seem to get brought up much, so they're sliding by without much attention. They still haven't produced a hard read either.
Do you have an alignment read on ace from that exchanges
I lean soft town on Ace so far. What I was sensing made sense to me, assuming I got it, and his other posting doesn't strike me as scum play.
Can you speculate the town reason for his proposal of how we should vote mayors in?
I think I'm picking up what you're putting down, Ace. We're being oblique, so I hope I'm not too far off base.
Gonna move that mayor vote.
oops
you wanna expand on this Wiggles? your play interests me so far. What do you think of tube now after scumreading him earlier
More or less reading that there's information to be gained outside of the policy lynch. That wagon should be dead now anyways.
Still reading scum on Tubesock. Don't think HF saw this earlier when I asked for comment:
On March 04 2019 05:49 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
On March 04 2019 05:41 Holyflare wrote:
On March 04 2019 05:33 Grackaroni wrote: I think we should lynch Tubesock for this post:
[quote] I think he asked this question to make Acro seem scummy for pushing low-content posters, and that conflicts with the way that Tubesock has been playing the game so far.
[quote]
[quote] If Tubesock is town I don't see why he should be questioning Acro's lynch choices considering his own so far.
I think this is a bad post. It's quite obvious why he questions acros posts because there's no distinction between any of those other players.
What do you think of Tubesock's deflection of my pressure earlier in the game?
On March 03 2019 06:01 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
On March 03 2019 04:41 Tubesock wrote: [quote]
When I have a lynch target I’ll let everyone one know. Do you want an opinion from me?
Am I and Conversion your only scumreads? Who do you want for mayor and why?
Yeah, I'd like to see some sort of contribution from you. What makes you want to support HF for mayor? Is it a scumread on Sentinel or some kind of policy lynch? You don't make that clear.
I'm cool lynching scummy people just trying to coast by on the first day without needing to stick their necks out too much. That's people like you so far, and Conversion who's re-hashing the same argument with MZ instead of moving to anything else. Guys like Acrofales and and Sent fall into this bucket for me right now too.
I'm not super thrilled with any of the mayoral candidates so far. I like HF the most from the people who've thrown their hat in since some of our reads jive. Disagree with him about Chez, his play seems par for the course from what I remember.
I asked for some kind of read, and instead got an answer of "later". I responded to their own questions and was ignored when they returned to the thread. Their posting has been very non-committal, and they still haven't really pushed a lynch target yet. The pressure votes don't come out and say, "I think this guy is scum", but are hedged as an activity motivator.
I'd like to hear more takes from others as well. Tubesock doesn't seem to get brought up much, so they're sliding by without much attention. They still haven't produced a hard read either.
Do you have an alignment read on ace from that exchanges
I lean soft town on Ace so far. What I was sensing made sense to me, assuming I got it, and his other posting doesn't strike me as scum play.
Can you speculate the town reason for his proposal of how we should vote mayors in?
I suspect it was something of a bait to check reactions. As to what he was looking for exactly, I think he'd need to answer that himself. I get the feeling he was having a laugh too, like some of the other entry posts.
It's the lack of follow through or trying to push it that doesn't push it into scum territory for me. There was the one post about it, some reactions, and it didn't eat up a bunch of thread space with back and forth.
i mean, it gained 0 traction and a ton of backlash, why bother pushing it or following up on it. Unless it was a straight up joke post which i doubt, town Ace wouldve felt some ownership towards the case
On March 04 2019 14:20 Mr. Wiggles wrote: What do you think of the Acro case Oats?
I've been going back re-reading his posts and the case on him, but I'm having trouble making up my mind. I'll probably sleep on it and re-read again in the morning.
I wanna lynch Acro yeah lol
This is so out of character from the rest of how Oats acts in his filter.
On March 06 2019 01:55 Oatsmaster wrote: Looking at Mr wriggles filter, he’s about as bland as a bowl of porridge. He doesn’t put himself out there, doesn’t really seem interested in finding scum and is kinda cruising doing whatever, take some real fencesitting reads. mafia
It also took me longer to find relevant quotes that I knew I read before I realized that my search is off because he calls him Wriggles.
2. Throwing away the vote. Day 2, Oats was *adamant* we don't stray from the wagons: either kill HF or kill BH. Do not deviate!
Not voting (4): Damdred, Chezinu, ExO_, darthfoley
Blazinghand is currently set to be lynched.
Please let us know if you notice any mistakes. The deadline is Friday, Mar 08 12:00am GMT (GMT+00:00), which is in .
Any town people who aren’t on either BH or Holyflare are actively playing against their wincon btw?
Not to say anything that would discourage people from voting HF (and thus saving me, who I know to be town) - but presumably some people strongly TR both me and HF. I'm sure there's scum in the 10 people not on either wagon, of course, but I could see someone having a reasonable reason here. I've certainly felt doubts about this HF wagon, and if I start townreading HF I'm going to move my vote off him. It really gets my goat if these poeple voting side votes aren't around at the end of the day though. Even if you TR both of us, presumably there's one you think is more town than the other...
You don’t understand. Either you or holyflare is getting lynched today at this point, there’s nothing else strong enough. everyone town needs to lynch who they think is the least town or most mafia between the two of you. Lynches are the town’s power but if there is a significant amount of people off wagon then it becomes the mafia power because they have the numbers to manipulate it their favor.
Very adamant about shutting down any other possibilities:
Not voting (4): Damdred, Chezinu, ExO_, darthfoley
Blazinghand is currently set to be lynched.
Please let us know if you notice any mistakes. The deadline is Friday, Mar 08 12:00am GMT (GMT+00:00), which is in .
Any town people who aren’t on either BH or Holyflare are actively playing against their wincon btw?
Not to say anything that would discourage people from voting HF (and thus saving me, who I know to be town) - but presumably some people strongly TR both me and HF. I'm sure there's scum in the 10 people not on either wagon, of course, but I could see someone having a reasonable reason here. I've certainly felt doubts about this HF wagon, and if I start townreading HF I'm going to move my vote off him. It really gets my goat if these poeple voting side votes aren't around at the end of the day though. Even if you TR both of us, presumably there's one you think is more town than the other...
You don’t understand. Either you or holyflare is getting lynched today at this point, there’s nothing else strong enough. everyone town needs to lynch who they think is the least town or most mafia between the two of you. Lynches are the town’s power but if there is a significant amount of people off wagon then it becomes the mafia power because they have the numbers to manipulate it their favor.
@Acro
See, Oats gets it xD
Though tbf if I strongly felt someone was scum I'd push it. Rels being so pissed off at me (I do not accept this is always a town role as an argument when it's demonstrably not) makes me less inclined to push that.
Nah, this just means mafia will pile onto one of the wagons instead of hiding elsewhere as we just defined a rule: if you're off-wagon, you're scum. So scum hides by being on the wagon. If they're both scum, they bus (as there literally isn't another option). If one is town and the other scum, they try to avoid bussing. And if both are town they just lurk and comply.
There is no point in forcing consolidation in a plurality lynch.
Actually that’s not the point. The point is to get all the town people either voting for hf or blazing hand, preferably hf.
Day 4, there are 2 wagons. You could call Onegu a 3rd, but MZ was never getting off the ground, and everybody was hopping off it. Except Oats:
On March 14 2019 08:00 Dandel Ion wrote: Day Four final VoteCount
Please let us know if you notice any mistakes. The deadline is Wednesday, Mar 13 11:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00), which is in .
The take-away message isn't that Oats is a hypocrit, it's that Oats doesn't actually care about where his vote ends up, as long as he looks good for it. Making "town rules" to vote on one of the two wagons is a great way to get a townie lynched and then have zero actual accountability. If he believed that consolidating on the wagon was essential for town to "exercise" their right to vote, he should be more invested in where he votes on other days as well. He really isn't. Anyway, he discussed this with Grack, and claims afk. Take it any way you like. I personally question an Oats who is so adamant about being a conscientious voter that goes afk with his vote parked on a wagon that was going nowhere.
3. Lots of posts, not much content. Yesterday, I highlighted this post:
On March 03 2019 08:38 Oatsmaster wrote: Also hf, so either you are town and you play serious so my read is wrong.
Or you are town and you dont play serious so my read is right in the sense that if you were serious you are mafia. But just that my judgement of your posts is wrong.
It cant be both at the same time like you are trying to portray it here.
It's your read that I'm too serious but over 50% of my filter at that point was not serious. Those posts you've quoted are also just reads. In what previous game of mine have I not given reads and instead have just done this amazing nothingness and fun you're trying to portray me as doing as town?
So the green part is that you are saying that you arent playing seriously this game in your opinion.
The bolded green part is that you are saying that you do play serious as town.
SOOOOOO ARE YOU TOWN THIS GAME HF??
But there's plenty more in his filter, where he is sorta pressuring, sorta coaching and sorta just being a dick without actually going anywhere with it. He's happy to blow along with where the wind blows.
Looks to me like his posting style is exactly the same as this game. That's not to say that his posting style makes him scum, just that it doesn't make him town. I make no pretense at being able to meta-read Oats. I just claim he's scum for in-game reasons.
On March 16 2019 00:24 LightningStrike wrote: DF I surprised you saying he's scum for red checkign you instead of claiming Miller when Miller are a possibility???
Not saying DF isn't scum. But I don't see why claiming miller is a better townie reaction than calling the copclaim fake.
Grackaroni found him acting weird with Wiggles too. I kinda agree, but don't know what to make of it. Lets flip Oats first. If this is Oats just being weird with Wiggles, then we decide that. If this is Oats being weird with another one of his scumbuddies, then we got two. It's very possible, but I don't feel like casing Wiggles just to catch Oats. We case Oats to catch Oats.
Alright lets talk about this point. So if im acting the same way with Wriggles and BC, which in my mind when I look back at Day 1 which was like 9 days ago, I am, and one of them is town and one of them is mafia, then the way I am acting isnt alignment indicative correct?
So if Acro true believes that my interaction with BC makes me mafia, he should also believe that my interaction with Wriggles makes me mafia. But he doesnt. So he isnt willing to actually double down on his read.
So a similar point was the thing I brought up really early in the game about how Scum dont vote for themselves as mayor. As soon as rsoul flipped and that was disproved, I didnt try to push that point again because clearly that wasnt an indicator of mafia.
So basically, this case is extremely stupid
Mainly I don't want to call Wiggles scum because I haven't cased him. He may very well be scum. And you flipping scum makes it more likely that he is too. But I'm not gonna do associative reads on you and Oats without a flip on one of you.
So
1) I don't think you're behaving as weirdly with wiggles as Grack does. As you can see, if you start reading your filter from the top, I read over the wiggles bits and tripped over the BC post...
2) If you *do* think you're behaving as weirdly with wiggles as you are with BC, it's definitely going to be scrutinized after you flip red, so don't worry that you aren't incriminating your associates enough...
Finally, I'd like to address this:
On March 16 2019 01:28 Oatsmaster wrote: The first point is extremely null because 1)Its literally one post where I make no effort to push a read or ANYTHING onto BC. Why the heck wont I post better if hes my teammate? The logical reason is that there are 35 people in this game and its tough to keep track of all the scummers especially when they dont talk to me. If im scum, obviously I dont do that because it looks super terrible.
This just piles on the evidence. The whole point isn't that you are posting badly. It's that you're posting differently. You're being super self-conscious about the fact that he's in your team and it's reflecting in your posting. As a townie, you don't know who's in your team, and that early in the game you don't even know who's scum, so you treat everybody the same. As scum, you know who else is scum, and you treat them differently (at least, in this case, one of them).
As scum you do that because you aren't even aware you are doing it. That's the whole point here. If you were aware you were doing it, you probably wouldn't do it, no. I agree.
On March 16 2019 05:53 Pandain wrote: @Acro maybe Oats is scum, but one post where he is oddly polite with BC is nowhere near good enough for me to vote him today, which is what started your campaign with him.
And re: Mocsta it makes me doubt he's scum, certainly if Mocsta flips red.
Mocsta's claim is clearly bullshit, but you think scum!mocsta would botch a cop fakeclaim just to get a lunch at lylo when absolutely everybody was townreading him? Why?
If you think that's the case, it'd have to be because we were going to lynch scum today and they are getting impatient (for no apparent reason) and want to win NOW. At night we were talking about onegu, tube and DF, with oats taking over later when Grack and I talked about him a bit.
Mostly we thought tube was not really scummy because it did not look like scum was protecting him. Onegu claimed 3p and it's fairly believable. If we lunch 3p we lose.
That leaves DF and oats. So if you think mocsta is fakeclaiming to get DF lynched and win the game for scum, then we shouldn't lynch DF.
That leaves Oats. So join me in lynching Oats.
Of course, I'm not actually on board with this. I want to know what Mocsta's plan was with all of this. He might be the scum hiding in my town circle. Or he might just be slightly crazy. That is my current theory, btw.
On March 16 2019 07:30 Rels wrote: I think I prefer an Onegu lynch. His survivor claim cannot be true - the only question left is "could a VT claim survivor to escape a lynch?" And I don't believe it is very likely
On March 16 2019 17:41 Tubesock wrote: I’m not supporting an Onegu lynch today, primarily because I think Acrofales’ math seemed ok and it doesn’t help us killing a survivor.
I will be on a Wiggles or Pandain.
I’m waffling a lot on Oats.
I'll read Wiggles' filter ignoring the fun that he's having with the radio show and see what I find. You guys have a good point about the constructed case on HF, but I don't feel at all confident calling him scum. Town make dumb cases as well to sort out their thinking. Hell, I do that. Look at that Lamp is null case I wrote, lol. I should probably have done that in a notepad or something, but I promised I'd read Lamp, so I just dumped all my findings in the thread.
I can totally see a dayvig agonizing over whether to shoot HF or not and dumping all his thoughts in the thread in the hope of getting some feedback. And then when crunch time comes, he pulls the trigger with his gut.
And it was a good shot. I'll reread pandain, but the case on sentinel was good, and he doesn't get town credit for lynching the traitor, but he gets town credit for doing the legwork to push the lynch off a townie. Even if scum probably thought it was onto another townie.
Btw, I did like the point about AMG replacing out from playing a town dayvig. He knew the size of the thread when he replaced in, so it seems a bit weird. But I did understand it. Replacing in is always tricky and I kept up with most of the thread, but was still overwhelmed by the quantity of new posts every time I opened it.
Hard to call someone scum for getting overwhelmed, even if they have one of the coolest roles in the game.
What did AMG say about HF? Because honestly, I would 100% have shot HF in the face at daybreak on D2...
My to-do list:
Get a haircut Buy shoes Filter wiggles Filter pandain+AMG Kill Oats
In fact, him not doing that seems scummy in any case. Why waste KP on a possible mislynch and the opportunity to make D2 entirely and exclusively about killing two townies...
On March 16 2019 18:26 Acrofales wrote: In fact, him not doing that seems scummy in any case. Why waste KP on a possible mislynch and the opportunity to make D2 entirely and exclusively about killing two townies...
So AMG better have a damn strong town read on HF
This is why phone posting is bad.
EBWOP:
As a mafia dayvig why waste KP on a possible mislynch and the opportunity to make D2 entirely and exclusively about killing two townies...
On March 09 2019 06:53 rsoultin wrote: Lol >< yay for reads lists! \o/
LightningStrike Vivax Holyflare Acrofales
Raynpelikoneet Mocsta Wave of Shadow Grackaroni
sicklucker Oatsmaster - impression reads aren't advancing but not sure this will hold up after the filter dive I didn't do tictock
Damdred
Chezinu Alakaslam - not happy + what now he has to think cause he thought I had no scumreads? Mr. Wiggles
Ace ExO_
Bloodycobbler Darthfoley
Null-reads Onegu - no shiny hipster reads (scum) vs. so uncaring (town) Fecalfeast - seems to have lost interest Rels - pissed at me man -_-
Dunno - would need to look at them closer Tumblewood Jockmcplop [UoN]Sentinel tubesock Pandain replaced by AMG Meapak_Ziphh
*Anything that's changed I think I've added a comment to?
Out for the night. We've got an early morning tomorrow.
On March 09 2019 08:59 Oatsmaster wrote: Darthfoley is actually the worst scumread I’ve seen ever what
I dunno if acro found this. but i think its an important post
I saw it. I thought it was a pretty bizarre defense of someone he hadn't mentioned before in the whole game.
I think I wrote that in one of my many posts about Oats.
What did you think was important about it?
Why would I mention him if no one is scumreading him and he’s my townread?!?
I've been thinking back to N2, and at that time DF was a nullish townread for me. I had some reasons down to town him, but his inactivity and the fact that nobody mentioned him at all was starting to worry me.
Going over dead townies filter, that idea is confirmed. HF had him down as "someone he should read" and mentioned that either ExO or DF was scum (although I don't really follow why). Rayn wanted AMG's thoughts on him and didn't really have any of his own. WoS same story.
Rsoultin scummed him, mainly for continuously forgetting he was in the game.
Yet you had him as a hard town read. So hard that your only response to rsoul's list is to chainsaw defend him. Without mentioning him at all before ever in your filter. In fact, you seem very suspicious of absolutely everybody in the game. Except Lamp, DF and Wiggles. It is just so incongruent that you chainsaw defend DF here.
Even if you scum rsoul as you claim you do:
On March 09 2019 01:52 Oatsmaster wrote: my scumlist: sl rsoul grack ace tube slam
Why jump down her throat over one of her scumreads, which should at BEST be a slightly green null to you at this point. It just... doesn't add up. You aren't trying to read the game and find scum. You are simply attacking people who disagree with your pre-ordained list, which had rsoul as scum and DF as town (the latter made up on the spot for no apparent reason. Your rsoul scumread at least has some stuff in it).
Of course, you do jump down peoples' throats for having scumreads on your townreads. There was the whole WEIRD tubesock <> wiggles thing that you poked your nose into.
I am simply going to quote my earlier post on it, but here I ignored Oats as I was focusing on TS vs Wiggles. But TS brought up a good point, which we will go into afterwards: + Show Spoiler [long post detailing TS vs Wiggles] +
On March 08 2019 21:47 Acrofales wrote: Hmmm, I think I'm starting to figure it out on my own, I'm just reaching a different conclusion.
Sorry for being a bit dense, but this is actually a super-interesting exchange that got totally snowed under in the HF-BH house of horror.
On March 07 2019 12:54 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Our dedicated fan Oatsmaster also writes in:
On March 07 2019 02:30 Oatsmaster wrote:
On March 06 2019 21:47 Tubesock wrote: Wiggles is funny to me. I feel like I can just take his case on me, and find/replace his name for mine and submit it with equal fervor. Plus we voted on both wagons so we can’t be too far off.
This should make wriggles town to him right because he does the exact same things as wriggles
This is a funny point that was missed on my first read through. If Tubesock thinks my play looks the same as what I've been pointing out in his, then he should probably read me similarly to his own alignment. If he thinks that makes me look like mafia, that's probably that scum guilt eating him up inside. Oats didn't let that slip slip his attention. Bravo!
I'm trying to sort out this tangled up mess too. It just seems disingenuous to say this, but I can't quite put my finger on why.
Let me try rewording it, and Oats, TS and Wiggles correct me if this is what they thought:
On March 06 2019 11:28 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Tubesock fell off the face of the earth. Still scum though.
Got to pressure vote trfel near the start of the day and park the vote because the rest of us ran with a case. No posting into D2 means no pressure from the lynch fallout. Pushed the Palmar is scum thing early without needing to commit hard on it or later comment on HF's announcement of a Palmar lynch.
We've only gotten two reads out of TS on trfel and conversion and they've both flipped now. Besides that we have zero information on where their head's at, scum-hunting wise. Lurking without offering anything to town.
TS responds to this case saying that it doesn't feel right that Wiggles reads him as scum for this, as Wiggles has done exactly the same. Therefore if Wiggles is *town* he should realize that TS and he had the same behaviour and is therefore also town.
I don't actually see TS drawing conclusions from it, just saying that it's a bullshit case, at this point.
Oats chips in and says that it's weird, because if TS is town, and knows that the behaviour in the bullshit case comes from a townie, then he must see Wiggles as a townie.
I'm not sure I agree with that, because there is a major difference in their behaviour now:
Wiggles thinks tubesock's behaviour for which he was cased was scummy. Tubesock just thinks that Wiggles exhibited the same behaviour, not that the behaviour is scummy.
So if TS scumreads Wiggles, it isn't for the behaviour itself (which he thinks he shares), but rather for the hipocrisy of finding that behaviour scummy. But I do see where Oats is coming from. He just read too much into it. My real issue is the follow-up from Wiggles that I quoted at the top:
At this point we have Wiggles scumming TS for behaviour that TS says was the same as his own, and we don't have TS scumming Wiggles, just pointing out the hipocrisy. Wiggles tunnels in on it and says "well, if you see this as scummy then you must be scum yourself". This just seems super disingenuous and Wiggles isn't really trying to figure out whether TS is scum or town, just paint him red and call it a day.
On March 08 2019 12:55 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Our next letter is quite unpleasant. The contents of if describe various threats of death and bodily harm to your host in graphic detail, and the letter also looks to be smeared with what appears to be excrement.
Though the signature is partially obscured by said foul substance, we can make out some of the letters: A--of-l-s.
Now, we have a suspicion of who this misguided individual could be, and so we'll be addressing this hate-mail.
On March 08 2019 05:48 Vivax wrote: Looks like Ill have to vote BH then to ensure this isnt another fuckup day.
Just look at wiggles first, please?
His posts where he talks to TS seem good to me. TS was like "If Im mayor, ill sheep HF", effectively avoiding to give out an opinion on anyone. WIggles picked up on that.
Third post he calls out like 3 or 4 dudes (you, sent, conversion) for not sticking their neck out, effectively sticking out his own.
Idk, just doesnt seem mafia to me. Also, he most likely was the first to catch TS, so kudos to him.
I can do any other player I have listed in my final list. And BH is the next one in it.
Ok. You're right. The interaction with TS is actually okay :/
But it's from this point onward that I just read mehhhh:
On March 04 2019 14:20 Mr. Wiggles wrote: What do you think of the Acro case Oats?
I've been going back re-reading his posts and the case on him, but I'm having trouble making up my mind. I'll probably sleep on it and re-read again in the morning.
"please tell me what to think, I'll get back" (never did)
On March 05 2019 05:44 Ace wrote: Blazinghand don't get yourself lynched for bs. If you're town you just waste a day as there's no real discussion being generated regarding you, and it's an easy wagon for Scum to hop on.
Thank you! Felt like I was yelling into the wind
Claims he was advocating for BH being town (although I have no idea how Ace got there either), when he was advocating for a mayor to shiv BH rather than lynching him:
On March 05 2019 04:45 Mr. Wiggles wrote: What's with the BH train? If you want to kill a hardcore lurker like that why not use the mayor lynch? I don't see the benefit
On March 05 2019 12:23 WaveofShadow wrote: Anyway, as much as tooting my own horn is super fun (man I was a goddamn all-star scum player---I think my winrate might have been better than HFs)---
I want to make this clear before I post a little on rsoul We are lynching ONLY HF OR BH tomorrow. The game can't proceed properly until that's done. Of those two, I'd rather HF die. Not sure if for personal/fun reasons or not, but whateva. I will not be pushing anyone else actively.
I'll be interested to see what you say about rsoul. Don't read her that way and would rather she doesn't catch a bullet.
Hopefully someone takes care of BH tonight. I get that HF needs to flip too. =/
"Please tell me what to think" take 2.
Nothing he did in D1 was to take solid stances. The very start of the game he was pressuring TS a bit, but dropped it when he got no support and it kinda just faded.
On March 05 2019 12:34 Mr. Wiggles wrote: As much as I didn't like Conversion, Marv seems cool so far.
Not only is this a lie (he scummed trfel over conversion), but marv came in looking pretty townie. If wiggles is scum this is such a safe play! Gain easy town credit when later in the night you shank him. So fucking simple (and btw, I've done this).
On March 05 2019 14:50 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Rayn, is your read on Acro still the same? You had him pegged as scum earlier.
I don't see it after the second half of the day and the reaction to the Palmar lynch. He's helping move the game forward in a useful way now, even if he's wrong about some things (like me)
"Please tell me what to think" take 3.
Then there's a lot of just generally just looking like he's saying stuff without actually saying stuff.
I mean. Do I have a sure read on Wiggles? No. Not really. He could just be a town that's really struggling with the length of the game. But I'm more confident that he's scum than I am that BH is. And for the rest I'm sure Palmar had a damned good reason to suddenly spam the thread with Wiggles is Mafia. He didn't do that with Sentinel, BC or HF. He read Wiggles filter and you can see the alarm bells go off in his head. He never really said why. But it's blendy shit and reads like a blendy mafia.
I have played a scumgame with Wiggles a looooong time ago, and remember bussing him at some point for being all blendy and lurky and stuff. Same as this play. But not sure I ever played with town Wiggles, so meta case is not a good case here.
Now this individual claims several times that your host is asking callers to tell him what to think about some of our other citizens, rather than making up his own mind. We can say that this is a patently false statement.
After our first interaction asking about esteemed citizen Acrofales (no relation to A--of-l-s, we hope), we made up our minds that we consider him to be of a green persuasion. See our lack of joining the mob looking to do him violence on Day 1. We later press Rayn (who we are suspicious of!) about their read of Acrofales (who again, we think is town). The case put forward by Rayn appears to be a bunch of hooey from our perspective, so we want to see if he'll double-down on it, which they have more than done throughout the night and this day cycle, even going so far as to avoid the other wagons.
rsoultin was another of our town reads, so any cases put forth to attempt to undermine or sway opinion to the contrary were of interest to us. This was especially important, because cases made and pushed throughout the night could persuade the vigilante element of our society to take things into their own hands. Many of our players are a little buck-wild, to put things lightly, so it was a valid concern.
Lastly, regarding our dearly departed suicidal team mate BH, we did not want to see a large wagon on him on D1. We felt that the wagons and votes of the day would provide information that would be useful, and that this would be subverted by having the entire town jump on a martyr who we could instead let the mayor take care of. We did not once claim a town read on BH, but have leaned null (early) to scum (recently). Regardless of BH's alignment the Day 1 wagon was very easy for scum to hop onto if they so desired without needing to put forward any contribution.
I really do like the flavour you're putting into these posts
I'm also starting to see some glimmers of town in you more recently, but your play still feels very off. I still agree with rsoul. It's very peanut gallery. You seem more invested than FF at least. But some things just don't add up. The tunnel on tubesock that nobody is paying any attention to is just so... easy.
Also the reasoning around hopping on the trfel wagon feels like feigned interest.
You can literally just go where the wind blows. There's some light pressure, a bit of a tunnel, and a lot of blehhhhhh. Enough to look interested, but not enough to actually contribute.
Conclusion: still Wiggles
Tubesock's analysis of Oats jumping into the middle here:
On March 08 2019 04:10 Oatsmaster wrote: Mafia boi
If wriggles does the same thing as you in that his case on you can be applied to him, and you are town, doesn’t that mean he’s also town? How does it mean he’s mafia
I never scumread him. So, it’s hilarious you are saying I’m scum for this, but apparently Wiggles is somehow town for doing exactly that. Take a look at my two posts:
On March 06 2019 18:52 Tubesock wrote: Wiggles, you’ve been scumming me since before I even scummed Trfel. Yet you’ve never voted me. Why not? You seem pretty convinced, you have some others who agree. Think about what you say because I’m going to have great satisfaction copy and pasting things from your case on me in my defense.
On March 06 2019 21:47 Tubesock wrote: Wiggles is funny to me. I feel like I can just take his case on me, and find/replace his name for mine and submit it with equal fervor. Plus we voted on both wagons so we can’t be too far off.
Why do you think i wrote the big and bold?? It’s a fucking trap and you fell right into it.
Oatsmaster didn’t bother to read anything more than the single post and looking for “reads” at the shallowest of levels. You went straight to Tube is mafia because of this “slip” you found. Yet you had no idea it was a trap and you fell into it!!!
This action on your part is representative of your entire game. You are mafia.
On March 08 2019 04:10 Oatsmaster wrote: Mafia boi
If wriggles does the same thing as you in that his case on you can be applied to him, and you are town, doesn’t that mean he’s also town? How does it mean he’s mafia
I never scumread him. So, it’s hilarious you are saying I’m scum for this, but apparently Wiggles is somehow town for doing exactly that. Take a look at my two posts:
On March 06 2019 18:52 Tubesock wrote: Wiggles, you’ve been scumming me since before I even scummed Trfel. Yet you’ve never voted me. Why not? You seem pretty convinced, you have some others who agree. Think about what you say because I’m going to have great satisfaction copy and pasting things from your case on me in my defense.
Then
On March 06 2019 21:47 Tubesock wrote: Wiggles is funny to me. I feel like I can just take his case on me, and find/replace his name for mine and submit it with equal fervor. Plus we voted on both wagons so we can’t be too far off.
Why do you think i wrote the big and bold?? It’s a fucking trap and you fell right into it.
Oatsmaster didn’t bother to read anything more than the single post and looking for “reads” at the shallowest of levels. You went straight to Tube is mafia because of this “slip” you found. Yet you had no idea it was a trap and you fell into it!!!
This action on your part is representative of your entire game. You are mafia.
I see that you and I have different definitions of funny then, whatever.
I’m wrong about that, carry on
He is scumming TS, right? Now TS just omgus'd him. Instead of pushing, he backs down. Hard:
On March 08 2019 04:10 Oatsmaster wrote: Mafia boi
If wriggles does the same thing as you in that his case on you can be applied to him, and you are town, doesn’t that mean he’s also town? How does it mean he’s mafia
I never scumread him. So, it’s hilarious you are saying I’m scum for this, but apparently Wiggles is somehow town for doing exactly that. Take a look at my two posts:
On March 06 2019 18:52 Tubesock wrote: Wiggles, you’ve been scumming me since before I even scummed Trfel. Yet you’ve never voted me. Why not? You seem pretty convinced, you have some others who agree. Think about what you say because I’m going to have great satisfaction copy and pasting things from your case on me in my defense.
Then
On March 06 2019 21:47 Tubesock wrote: Wiggles is funny to me. I feel like I can just take his case on me, and find/replace his name for mine and submit it with equal fervor. Plus we voted on both wagons so we can’t be too far off.
Why do you think i wrote the big and bold?? It’s a fucking trap and you fell right into it.
Oatsmaster didn’t bother to read anything more than the single post and looking for “reads” at the shallowest of levels. You went straight to Tube is mafia because of this “slip” you found. Yet you had no idea it was a trap and you fell into it!!!
This action on your part is representative of your entire game. You are mafia.
Explain this trap like I'm 5 because I don't get it.
I think it’s the part where he implied that he thought wiggles was scum but he never actually thought he was scum and I thought that he thought that wriggles was scum so I got caught oh noo
Now think of a town Oats. Does town!Oats who is scumming TS suddenly think that the guy he just caught for being mafia "laid a trap" and he, town!Oats, fell for it, and is now being scummed himself? Or did the situation just get too hot to handle for scum!Oats? Clearly the second is the better explanation. Why? Because if town!Oats thought that he had actually been caught by a TS "trap" he would
EITHER call it bullshit, not a trap, stupid scumslip and push TS hard OR believe it was indeed a town!TS trap and stop scumming him
Instead, we have scum!Oats next mention of Tubesock:
On March 09 2019 01:52 Oatsmaster wrote: my scumlist: sl rsoul grack ace tube slam
The "whoops, I forgot I backed off that guy" list.
GG. Oats
And I really tried. I really thought you might be town after all with your post about Wiggles scum. But nice job throwing your buddy under the bus.
PS. I did get my hair cut AND I looked at AMG's filter. It is... weird. He may be scum.
Like the one thing that dominated D2 was HF vs BH. He mentions BH a bit and votes for him, but there is no mention of HF. He does follow rayn's advice to read less important filters in
Now I don't actually mind these reads. They kinda make sense. What doesn't make sense is AMG just latching onto Rayn telling him to read these completely irrelevant filters in making up his mind on whether HF or BH needed to be lynched... or "neither" was the better option (in which case the above little list might have been relevant).
1. AMG didn't have time to play the game properly 2. AMG used that little time on doing irrelevant stuff
On March 16 2019 21:02 Pandain wrote: Acro I know you're town so you need to focus. Why would I if I was scum lead a lynch away from the best player in the game (town)
In a million years
I have no idea, it's why I towned you.
Don't worry. We should definitely kill Oats before you. But the fact that I have no idea why scum!Pandain would lead the wagon off town!Ace doesn't mean you wouldn't. To paraphrase your own words:
The problem is I am reading into Pandain as to what I would have done, not what Pandain decided to do.
I'm sure you had your reasons to lynch sentinel, I just can't fathom them!
On March 17 2019 00:01 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Before we get into the show, we are paging Professor Acrofales, paging Professor Acrofales.
If you're still here, we would like to know your thoughts on one 'darthfoley'. We consider him the strongest alternate lynch to Oats that we can rally town behind today.
Why are you looking at an alternative wagon? What do you think of Oats?
On March 17 2019 00:22 Rels wrote: we need to consolidate though at some point. Acro, do I have no chance of convincing you to vote Onegu?
Nope. I'm with you that he's probably scum, but at this point we just ignore him and find his scumbuddies. If he flips 3p we lose, and there is a real risk his 3p claim is real. A survivor in a 35-player game is totally possible.
If we had killed 3 or 4 scummers and were having a terrible time finding their friends, I'd say lynch him to be sure. But we have gotten a single scummer and no associations from it. So it's really no need to lynch a possible 3p right now.
I don't think there's anything wrong with what you say about MZ. But I did like his response yesterday when I asked if he saw himself as null. I found this post:
On March 15 2019 03:02 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: I might swap Grack with Rels/FF but other than that I think your reads are spot on Acro.
So you think you're null?
You don't have me as scum? You almost the same reads I do? I think my play so far justifies a null read on me, that's why I haven't jumped down the throats of the many people who have called me scum lol.
I'm town, as long as we're lynching people I think are scum in a lylo situation I'm good with people reading me however they please.
completely inline with how I'd expect a townie to respond.
So given that we caught Oatsmaster with his hand in the cookie jar today, I don't really feel like spending the energy to un-null my null read right now.
Also, I'm wary of wagons being pushed by people I haven't towned yet... for obvious reasons.
In a game of 35 players, you can "expect" each player to contribute roughly 2.9% of the thread. Some will obviously contribute less due to being dead at the beginning, but lets use that as a rough metric.
I was going to do this for all players, but don't have time. I think Oats actually had a good point to do quantitative meta analysis.
Oats is at roughly 190% of the average poster. That's quite a lot. However Oats is generally a very prolific poster, so simply saying "quantity = town" is not right. We need to compare it to other games:
Here are all the games he played since 2014 (an arbitrary cut-off chosen so I don't have to analyse any of his 500 games played in 2013, but also to filter out "old meta"):
Survivor Series Mafia Town Vanilla Endgamed Day 4 - 10 pages: 5.7%, or 80% of average SMB Mini Mafia Town Vanilla Lynched Day 4 - 13 pages: 10%, or 131% of average TL Mafia LXIV: The Restart Town Vanilla Survived Day 7- 14 pages: 11%, or 200% of average Im a cop you idiot mafia 2 Town Medic Killed Night 2 - 9 pages: 20%, or 142% of average Shadowed Mini Mafia: The Reboot Town Vanilla Survived Day 4 - 8 pages: 8%, or 90% of average
Got bored of this. Only doing 2017 onwards:
A Simple Game of Mafia Mafia Roleblocker Lynched Day 1- 2 pages: 2%, or 28% of average Names Are Hard 2 Town Vanilla Endgamed Day 4 - 17 pages: 13%, or 156% of average Hurricane Shelter Mafia Town Medic Killed Night 1 - 3 pages: 4% or 52% of average Heroes of the Storm Mafia Town Vanilla Lynched Day 2 - 13 pages: 17%, or 223% of average Newbie Student Mafia XXVII Mafia Roleblocker Survived Day 5 - 12 pages: 16%, or 228% of average Mafia Mafia Mafia Mafia Town Vanilla Killed Day 2 - 8 pages: 12%, or 190% of average MafiacalFeast I Mafia Godfather Lynched Day 4 - 14 pages: 8%, or 110% of average
Make of this what you will, but mostly Oats is just a prolific writer. He has 2 recent mafia games at 110% of average and 228% of average. His least posts come from when he died super early (day 1, night 1) as mafia or town.
But it is maybe a good way to look at other people. Just a lot of work.
@LS: I remember multiple people called Oats out on D1 for being completely useless and throwing out a list of random reads. Explain your meta read please
I thought we had an hour and 15 minutes, but keep forgetting DST in the states. I thought I had time to go through some of the Oats town mislynches... but really I don't. So far, I don't see much possibility of meta reading Oats: if it was clear, he wouldn't get mislynched as town on D1/2 as often as he does... or for that matter, live til endgame as scum.
I mean, a clear meta can be seen from Vivax's DB: he gets lynched a LOT as scum, and NK'd as town. Mislynches are few and far between. Oats is far less obvious: he lives as scum, gets mislynched as town, and is generally just a confusion.
So yeah, I could be wrong about Oats, him getting mislynched shows town often gets him wrong, Not just for meta reasons. But I trust my reasoning that he's scum. More than I belive anyone else is scum.
On March 17 2019 07:54 darthfoley wrote: Welp 7 minutes before probable end of game post and the obs people flooding the thread flaming us for never lynching MZ. Was fun I guess
If anything, Palmar is gonna go bonkers about us not lynching Wiggles. But don't worry. Oats'll flip red, I'll get NKd and be done with this
But I'm kinda done. Clearly my reads are terrible. We should just kill, in any order:
Pandain ExO_ Onegu
Maybe add Wiggles in there, because his reasoning around whipping votes for Oats seemed suspect, but honestly, I can't be bothered. At least I remember why I didn't play for so long.
On March 17 2019 20:41 Pandain wrote: The one guy who lynched scum this whole game is your scum target. lol.
I'm done pushing anyone. I'll sheep mocsta, or if not him, jock. But 3 people dying means they'll just kill mocsta, jock/wiggles and me, and if the game isn't over tomorrow gonna be lurkers vs lurkers. Good luck.
Wiggles did well, when his radio show started, the palmar scumread just sorta faded away. It only really came back in the last 2 hours of the last day when he was screaming so adamantly for Oats lynch, but lets face it: we weren't going to get Pandain lynched either, and I didn't scumread MZ, so just stuck with Oats and figured Wiggles was either an overzealous townie, or busing. When Oats flipped green it was rather obvious, but also too late.
Jock played very well. His excuse for why his play dropped off was believable enough that his earlier activity just kept him in the green list.
Rels I thought was scum, but he convinced rsoultin and LS he was town, and that was all he really needed to do.
Lets face it, we were never even close to lynching any scum other than Sentinel this game. It was just town fighting with town.
Rayn calls me terrible, but pretty much the only thing he did was tunnel me and then die.
I still don't understand how we lynched Chezinu and how town allowed HF to shoot Palmar. It was just a total collective failing all around.
Day 1: 4 town wagons for lynching Day 2: 2 town wagons for lynching Day 4: 2 (3 if we count onegu) town wagons for lynching Day 5: 2 town wagons for lynching
On March 18 2019 01:55 Acrofales wrote: Yeah, sorry town. My scumreads were way off.
Wiggles did well, when his radio show started, the palmar scumread just sorta faded away. It only really came back in the last 2 hours of the last day when he was screaming so adamantly for Oats lynch, but lets face it: we weren't going to get Pandain lynched either, and I didn't scumread MZ, so just stuck with Oats and figured Wiggles was either an overzealous townie, or busing. When Oats flipped green it was rather obvious, but also too late.
Jock played very well. His excuse for why his play dropped off was believable enough that his earlier activity just kept him in the green list.
Rels I thought was scum, but he convinced rsoultin and LS he was town, and that was all he really needed to do.
Lets face it, we were never even close to lynching any scum other than Sentinel this game. It was just town fighting with town.
Rayn calls me terrible, but pretty much the only thing he did was tunnel me and then die.
I still don't understand how we lynched Chezinu and how town allowed HF to shoot Palmar. It was just a total collective failing all around.
Day 1: 4 town wagons for lynching Day 2: 2 town wagons for lynching Day 4: 2 (3 if we count onegu) town wagons for lynching Day 5: 2 town wagons for lynching
I get why it's nice to have something like that to lean on, but that never happened lol ><
Eh, you went from hard scumming him to null reading him... and maybe he spun it a bit at me, but essentially you weren't scumming him anymore when you died. And LS was definitely towning him any time anyone brought up that he might be scum.
Honestly, I find the closed setup too hard for town. A mafia dayvig and mason are not "normal" roles. And all the setup speculation made a hard game even harder.
oh good catch yeah IDK why he wouldn't disclose more of his role if he doesn't have more shots. I think he has unlimited shot but he only can shoot lurkers, whatever the definition of a lurker is
Heh. And if meddling townies hadn't misinterpreted my claim I would've gotten away with it too. That was what I was intending to make scum believe, but then ppl started questioning my list of players and I had to completely full claim. Granted, the partial claim was a bit botched, but good to see it at least had you guys believing it for a bit there.
On March 19 2019 20:08 Jockmcplop wrote: I need to try and learn from this game so I have a couple of questions if you guys don't mind:
1: Was the win a result of bad town play more than good mafia play?
Obviously everyone is going to have their own opinion on this, but I'd say it's mostly the former, but a bit of the latter. You all did enough to be less of a target than the major wagons, so that was good scum play. But the reason that was possible was down to overall terrible town play (including my own).
2: How to avoid the constant TvT wagons that wrecked this game for town?
Find and lunch scum. You'll see that you can often pull the threads of VCA and other association reads to get a better idea of who's town. E.g. if Sentinel had been a real mafia, we could really have used that info. As is, any info from that lunch had to be treated with caveats and wasn't as useful.
Also, town needs to not do stupid shit.
3: Was there any more the mafia could have done to control the game or would this ultimately be an unnecessary risk?
Depends a bit on the player. Some players are great at doing crazy big plays as scum, that causes them to be town read for a good part of the game. A high profile bus can work really well. But it can also backfire horrifically. The safe play for scum is to be pretty much exactly where you guys were at. Not wielding big thread influence, but wielding just enough to push town into wagons on townies.
Of course, what looks like all scum being safe can unravel really fast if town gets a good case and lynch going, scum reacts badly and then topples one after another. But still. Letting town tear each other apart is the way most mafia victories go.
4: Were there any big, defining errors made by town where the game should have gone differently?
1. Shooting Palmar (this wasted 2 1/2 days) 2. Fake claiming (this contributed to the chezinu lynch and would've gotten Onegu lynched eventually if the game had continued. It also outted FF. It's also just really dumb play as town) 3. Lynching BH (retarded to lynch someone "for information") 4. Lynching Chezinu (stupid lynch happened in a stupid way)
Town was whipped into a frenzy chasing its own tail by any or all of these events and not thinking straight. You could add the game ending Oats lynch to that, but I'm biased and don't think it was a terrible lynch. But there was probably a lack of critical thinking in town at this point.
I'm not asking for any detailed analysis, more just off the tops of your heads from memory as a guide for me so I know what to look for as I re-read the game.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://www.quickmeme.com/img/69/69fbf7240f42620c870bdc173856ead82781e930db2ac505e941931fc2c24ea1.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/353/279/e31.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://velvetracing.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/undefined.jpeg)
![[image loading]](https://memecrunch.com/meme/6IKPA/russ/image.png)
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/8X74s7r.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://media.giphy.com/media/XJMfaPpIfQ7R1qFavY/giphy.gif)
![[image loading]](https://images-cdn.9gag.com/photo/a4YYgNd_700b.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://i.gifer.com/3bhc.gif)
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/YqfWbEJ.png)
![[image loading]](https://i.lensdump.com/i/AqeSyD.gif)
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/vDCUUiL.png?2)
