EPTNewbie Student Mafia XXIX
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Qatol
United States3165 Posts
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Qatol
United States3165 Posts
On August 28 2018 06:49 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: o shit Better rename this game vet mafia lol I haven't played in so long I might as well be a newbie. I think the thread title fits just fine.  | ||
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Qatol
United States3165 Posts
On August 28 2018 08:26 kitaman27 wrote: lol hiya Qatol. If we can get 13 players by the weekend, I'll promise to update the database. Don't pass up this once in a lifetime offer! Hiya! Congrats on the star! | ||
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On September 07 2018 20:13 Kaley wrote: RIP Burt, Kelsiers not hurting he's glad another game is churning Tides arent turning cuz there aint no tides yet nobody's got a concept of how to start shit worthwhile.. rayn is sipping his coffee is vivax for real i don't know oh jee he might be mafia as half of ya believe he's really just trying to be constructively foretelling alignemn like theees 2018. Lesbatron with that conf townie vibe, best belieeev This is too much effort spent on what is essentially a summary of early game spam posts. I'm generally suspicious of summary posts anyways, as they generally fall into the category of "appearing to contribute but not really contributing." Considering the game state, something smells fishy to me. ##vote Kaley | ||
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On September 08 2018 00:17 Sergiovan wrote: And Time is finally on my side, I get to be here for a bit. I don’t know anyone particularly well so if any of you can add meta reads to what I’m seeing I would appreciate the help. My meta knowledge is, at best, deeply outdated. I believe that Koshi is the best lynch of the people who have posted this far. His most recent post shows that he is aware of how he appears and is nervous about it and is trying to fit in to the town atmosphere. Kaley seems most town to me, I like his image post. It shows a carefree mindset which I believe is hard to fake as scum. Koshi, Vivax and Kaley - the three of you have all posted in the past hour so I assume you are still here. Koshi please respond to my Kaley read. Kaley please respond to my Koshi read. Vivax please respond to both. Unfortunately, I predate everyone here except RebirthOfLegend, so my meta reads are nonexistent. I've helped host a game that Meapak played in, but, unless I'm forgetting something, I haven't played with him. I'm not so sure about your Koshi read without more. You lost me when you say "he is aware of how he appears." Do you mean he showed he is nervous with his "I am town" post? That looked like relatively typical early game fluff to me. Interesting that you read Kaley as carefree. What about it is so different about the picture to you than, for example, Kelsier posting about coffee? | ||
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On September 08 2018 01:31 Vivax wrote: I think Sergio is overanalyzing early game stuff, but not in a necessarily scummy way, he may just be overeager townie. That makes me unable to agree with him on his points. I believe he shouldn't give so much weight to what Koshi did so far. I think kaley is town. Btw I never was able to like rap/hip-hop. Hard for me to explain this read, mostly gut and that he's going after rayn of all people. Not a big fan of a Qatols version as a summary is the best that anyone could have delivered on early game banter and I see the opportunity for mafia here to jump on a kaley lynch after rayn (if town) said he would p-lynch for the rap. I'll ultimately refrain from scumreading Qatol here as pushing arguments early here is a good thing for town and not necessary for mafia, but I don't agree with them. I don't know if overanalyzing is the right word. The first 24 hours of a game are often the most obnoxious because there isn't much to talk about; I think Sergio accusing someone gives us meaningful discussion to look at, as opposed to "the next person to post is mafia." Sergio hasn't said anything so far that makes me think tunnel vision is occurring. Why exactly do you think Kaley going after rayn without providing any reasoning is a town action? Kaley claims to be new, so what makes rayn different from anyone else? Also, why are you worried about bandwagon votes, rather than just straight up looking for them? | ||
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On September 08 2018 01:06 Kaley wrote: RIP Burt, Kelsiers not hurting he glad another game is churning Tides arent turning cuz there aint no tides yet nobody's got a concept of how to start shit worthwhile.. rayn is sipping his coffee too Qats a hater hatin on my my rhymin oh boo hoo votes a tron saying there ain't nothin to be townread n a resume n that i be spending effort i should go to bed but nah, this shits like breathin for me fool once i get into the groove i be spittin just to keep myself enthused ...y'all be trippin, if y'all think i should quit this sick spittahn all y'all gotta do is vote me outa tha game, your read is lame sergiovahn but don't be alarmed it's only page 2 you got a lot of chances ahead of you but don't you go 180 on yours tru ly i hope you keep me where I also happen to be cuz i'm town my homie as i said don't go degree on me but if you scum tho you're bout to fall on your face and then i'll be there to make a sick case but yo kayls I ain't no smurf i'm new to this turf and i'm the lesbatron so don't be callin me a he, sergio, son And don't you let qat give you that veteran crap nee duh my reads are rayn and qat to 2/3 be the .. mafia team i'm bout intervene just watch me Charlie Sheen n place this vote on rayn ftw. vote: raynpelikoneet Translated into English: rehash of early game filler, Qatol is a hater for picking on my rhyming, sergio has bad reads, I'm town and I think Qatol and rayn are mafia. Again, I fail to see how this is really contributing. There is no reasoning. Why is sergio's read lame? What did rayn say that made you vote him? This is posting to make it look like you're contributing when you really aren't doing anything. | ||
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On September 08 2018 02:58 Vivax wrote: The reason I think that it is unlikely for mafia kaley to push a town rayn is that he's typically one of the guys you can expect a lot of resistance from. Conversely I see it more likely that a mafia goes after kaley here when a town rayn already hinted that he would lynch for rping. Why would a new player know that rayn is going to provide a lot of resistance? Unless you think the mafia are coordinating the people they are going to accuse in thread? I fail to see how this point weighs in either direction unless the mafia are doing a lot of communicating behind the scenes or Kaley is a smurf. | ||
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I think that Kaley's most recent post is circular and conclusory (rayn is mafia therefore the stuff rayn is posting is scummy therefore rayn is mafia) without pointing out specific language. As a result, it really isn't helpful and doesn't do anything to change my opinion of the situation. I agree that Koshi isn't really contributing very seriously and he should be looked at as a more serious lynch candidate in the near future. His posts generally are not helping the town, with the possible exception of his halfhearted stabs at me, which at least potentially foster discussion. However, I don't agree with calling him scummy for not posting his town reads, at least if those townies are not under threat of lynch and he himself is not about to die. More importantly, I think we currently have better candidates for potential lynching in Vivax (who has admitted to making a read on no information) and Kaley (who, at best, is being actively destructive to the town atmosphere). By the way (kitaman or mocsta please correct me if I'm wrong), the game has 48 hour days, and you don't need to vote every 24 hours, only post once every 24 hours. I'm more concerned about the players (Meapak, Rels, RoL, Damdred, and prplhz) who haven't posted at all yet. I'm not reading anything into holyflare's post except "I want to meet the posting requirement, so here's a quick post that does that." I'll worry more about him if we don't see something more substantial over the weekend. | ||
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My personal context on the subject for anyone who cares: + Show Spoiler + I was one of the original forces behind inactivity modkills on TL (for those who don't know I was the original moderator of the ban list), mostly as a result of this game. The town was so inactive the mafia could take the strategy of night killing anyone who voted, while at the same time hiding amongst the inactives themselves. The end of that game was a miserable experience, with inactivity literally deciding the game. | ||
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Plus, we're getting posts like this: On September 08 2018 23:17 Rels wrote: Sergio is almost lock town for me rayn Koshi and KSC look town too I want to lynch Kaley Rels, why is Sergio almost a lock? Why do you want to lynch Kaley? Considering there was 30 minutes between your "yo" post and your vote, I'm confused as to why you didn't say more. However, the thing that is most perplexing about the situation is Kaley's insistence on staying in character and getting in a flamewar with rayn rather than providing any real analysis. Kaley, you're spending the time to put together semi-rhymes. Why not at least point to the words rayn has posted that are making you push for him so hard? From what I can tell, your original read came from him stating that he would policy lynch people who posted rp/ms paint. He hadn't even said anything about you before you started trying to aggravate him. As I have mentioned repeatedly, you really haven't posted anything that helps the town. Instead, your posts have been inflammatory and disruptive. As a result, I feel obligated to leave my vote on you. | ||
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On September 09 2018 19:39 raynpelikoneet wrote: Well it really doesn't matter anymore what Qatol says in terms of "i need to wait". I was kinda hoping you wouldnt have made that post HF in case youre town as i was kinda hoping Qatol would have used the "i voted Kaley first" as an asnwer to your question if he's mafia. But you kinda blew it there... Why did you decide to vote for Qatol? Instead of Serge? Did you think you would really gather momentum to lynch Qatol over Kaly (who you read as town -- aka you are trying to, or should be, save them)? At least Kelsier would have possibly followed you onto your other scumread. Who did you think will vote for Qatol at that point? Okay let me address this. I hadn't posted on Holyflare's vote because, quite frankly, his argument is ridiculous, mischaracterizes the situation, and causes a distraction. That being said, because people are asking me to respond, let me break things down. (Sorry I couldn't respond sooner, but you waited between 5am and 6am my time, so it wasn't going to happen) On September 09 2018 06:23 Holyflare wrote: + Show Spoiler + On September 09 2018 03:02 Qatol wrote: Getting back to the game, I will say that I am nervous that there hasn't been more pushback regarding Kaley, both by the player themselves and by others. Usually lynching mafia day 1 is like pulling teeth. That hasn't been the experience so far. Plus, we're getting posts like this: Rels, why is Sergio almost a lock? Why do you want to lynch Kaley? Considering there was 30 minutes between your "yo" post and your vote, I'm confused as to why you didn't say more. However, the thing that is most perplexing about the situation is Kaley's insistence on staying in character and getting in a flamewar with rayn rather than providing any real analysis. Kaley, you're spending the time to put together semi-rhymes. Why not at least point to the words rayn has posted that are making you push for him so hard? From what I can tell, your original read came from him stating that he would policy lynch people who posted rp/ms paint. He hadn't even said anything about you before you started trying to aggravate him. As I have mentioned repeatedly, you really haven't posted anything that helps the town. Instead, your posts have been inflammatory and disruptive. As a result, I feel obligated to leave my vote on you. ##vote Qatol This is so contradictory. You can't understand why there is no push back (maybe the fact that Kaley could be town?) so you'll vote Kaley regardless? It's not even a reason to scum read Kaley. Kaley is poking at rayn because rayn's points blatantly pointed towards policy lynching Kaley. You are simply voting the highest wagon (that could well be town) that is currently active under the guise of policy/scum lynch. I do indeed mention that there is no push back on Kaley, which could mean that Kaley is town. If you look back at previous posts I have made, I repeatedly been asked Kaley to post something, anything productive. Instead, she insisted on her "raps" and throwing personal attacks at rayn with no logic. I agree that there not being pushback isn't a reason to scum read Kaley. However, this isn't my first post on Kaley. If you look at my filter, it's actually my 6th post that mentions Kaley. My scumread was based on Kaley doing her best to disrupt and distract the town without actually contributing. Again, in those posts, just like in the one you pointed out, I have been asking Kaley to contribute. Finally, the wagon. I was the first to vote Kaley. As I mentioned above, I also made a large amount of the discussion on Kaley. Hardly a bandwagon vote. In fact, the only votes that could reasonably be considered bandwagon votes are your own vote and Rels (rayn's vote occurred at a time when there was 4 different players with 1 vote for them and thus is more of a vote that pointed us in a direction). You further clarify this point later in the thread by saying this: On September 09 2018 19:12 Holyflare wrote: I didn't realise Qatol had voted Kaley before that post. Regardless, the point still stands. The post you're so worried about clearly states "As a result, I feel obligated to leave my vote on you." You even went through the effort to bold this portion of my post. Are you now trying to state that you took the effort to accuse me based on this post, and even specifically bold this portion of the post but didn't read it? | ||
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Qatol
United States3165 Posts
On September 09 2018 23:30 Holyflare wrote: Now, if we could get back to actually relevant stuff. People that aren't rayn talking about Qatol would be good. Rayn talking about Kelsier posts would also be good. Okay, let me comment one more time on this because you requested it and because you have posted a few other things that simply aren't true. The big one is the reason for my read on Kaley. On September 09 2018 23:22 Holyflare wrote: + Show Spoiler + On September 09 2018 20:42 raynpelikoneet wrote: I agree i was, i am not saying i wasn't. But i also know what i read and i didn't start it. But that's not my point and it is irrelevant. What is relevant is this: You are saying this: When you made this comment i can only assume it is a townread unless: 1) Someone had called Kaley mafia because of him being a dick to me (which imo never happened) 2) Since the above never happened, you think this is a reason for Kaley to be town (it outweighs the reasons for him being mafia). Since you now claim this is not a case, why did you decide to defend your null read based on an argument noone ever made, and you yourself don't think makes him town? About three people called Kaley mafia because they were posting in rhymes and being specifically antagonistic towards you. It's the entire basis for Qatol's scum read even. Just because I don't agree with you or other people that this makes Kaley mafia does not also infer I think Kaley is town nor is it a town read. It's a read that means I don't think that specific point makes that specific person mafia. I don't know why you are trying so hard to put words in my mouth that I never quite said but you should stop. It was not because she was antagonistic towards rayn. It was because she wasn't contributing and was actively trying to distract people from useful conversation. Her first post was a summary of spam. Her second post was an attempt to provoke a policy lynch. Her third post was another summary of spam (after being called out on it) and then attacks on rayn and myself without providing any reasoning. Her posts after that point were basically just a mixture of accusing rayn as mafia (again, without reasoning) and personal attacks on rayn. How is that helpful, pro-town behavior? I also find it amusing that you are worried about other people putting words in your mouth when that's exactly what you just did. | ||
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I see another post I'd like to discuss. On September 09 2018 05:45 Koshi wrote: No. Kaley is fine. But after that it is HF and not Sergio. Because Sergio is linked to hf. And he tried. Koshi, please explain your logic around when the voting ended. I understand you have a scum read on HolyFlare and a town read on Sergio. This post makes it seem like you were also okay with the Kaley lynch. My question is why did you leave your vote where you did? It was pretty obvious at the time that HolyFlare was unlikely to be the lynch. You seem to acknowledge that yourself. So why leave your vote on HolyFlare, making a last second vote switch from Kaley to someone you don't want to see lynched, such as Sergio, more likely? | ||
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On September 09 2018 01:57 Vivax wrote: I don't think Sergio is mafia. But he seems to be a bit of a dick if he asks rayn to play nice then proceeds to call Koshis posts trash. I think Koshi is rather townie. I think we should lynch RoL, cause RoL always flips mafia. ##Vote RoL So you have town reads on Sergio and Koshi. Your filter reveals you wanting to refrain from scumreading anyone. You softly defend Kaley and softly scumread me here: On September 08 2018 01:31 Vivax wrote: I think Sergio is overanalyzing early game stuff, but not in a necessarily scummy way, he may just be overeager townie. That makes me unable to agree with him on his points. I believe he shouldn't give so much weight to what Koshi did so far. I think kaley is town. Btw I never was able to like rap/hip-hop. Hard for me to explain this read, mostly gut and that he's going after rayn of all people. Not a big fan of a Qatols version as a summary is the best that anyone could have delivered on early game banter and I see the opportunity for mafia here to jump on a kaley lynch after rayn (if town) said he would p-lynch for the rap. I'll ultimately refrain from scumreading Qatol here as pushing arguments early here is a good thing for town and not necessary for mafia, but I don't agree with them. But then you back off from it here: On September 08 2018 16:16 Vivax wrote: I really don't like how I was talked into making my kaley read appear stronger than it was. It was a crappy feels-read coupled with the rayn vote which I would describe as ballsy. That said, it makes me feel entrapped that everyone is riding this train of thought that I'm mafia for that read after making me talk so much about it which really isn't something that felt that important to me. That said, I was expecting more fleshed out "raps" afterwards or at least that kaley would start posting normally, and the latest one isn't very informative as Qatol points out above. So I don't see a reason to still mantain that read. I'll be waiting for more content before scumreading anyone however. But then, out of nowhere, you decide to vote for RoL, someone who hasn't even posted, has no votes on him, and is thus extremely unlikely to be lynched. Why? Just so your vote won't matter? How do you think that helps? You're just making it easier for the mafia to influence the vote. Especially in a game that's this as inactive as this one has been, this vote sticks out, considering you have been actively posting in the thread. This vote looks to me like you are afraid to take a stand against anyone. This really looks to me like you could be mafia who is pleased with how the lynch is going and didn't want to be accused of making a bandwagon vote. So please explain. | ||
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On September 10 2018 05:24 Sergiovan wrote: Qatol: you defense of yourself in #247 seems misplaced. You either aren’t reading or aren’t actually moving with the thread. HF is saying that your claim that there was no pushback on Kaley is scummy and your defense is “I said that there was pushback” and you say “there not being pushback isn't a reason to scum read Kaley.” But isn’t that actually a reason to have a town read on Kaley? You said so in your previous post. You are have a big post to defend yourself which relies on its length rather than its quality to achieve that defense. Qatol, based on the above post moves to the red column. I question whether you are reading my post correctly, or my double negatives made things confusing. I agree that there being no push back on Kaley is a reason to town read Kaley. I made that point repeatedly, both in the post that HolyFlare pointed out (#200) and again in the one you mentioned (#247), albeit with a double negative. That was the strongest argument in favor of not lynching Kaley. I said so in both posts. The whole point of post #200 was to, again, give Kaley an opportunity to do something pro-town and to question whether we were doing the right thing by lynching her. If you think that the post was made for the sheer sake of length, then I simply don't understand where you're coming from. Again, I question whether you actually read the entire post. Maybe you're trying to encourage others not to read my posts? | ||
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I'm willing to have my mind changed, but for now, that's where my vote is going. ##Vote: Vivax | ||
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On September 10 2018 15:19 prplhz wrote: @Qatol Explain to me the night kills as if I were stupid! No problem. Koshi shoots HolyFlare Mafia shoots Koshi Koshi has been focused on HolyFlare pretty much ever since HolyFlare jumped onto the Kaley bandwagon. He also said HolyFlare was his #1 lynch priority. It makes sense he would use his vigilante shot on HolyFlare. As to why the mafia shot Koshi, I can't say for sure. I can think of a couple of potential reasons, any or all of which could be why Koshi was the target. 1. They might have figured out that Koshi was blue. He kinda gave it away with this post: On September 08 2018 00:25 Koshi wrote: I am sorry that I appear to you like that. Please dont lynch me. You look very town. Specifically, he was unnaturally nervous about being lynched day 1. This screams blue. Looking back, although I didn't catch it at the time, Koshi kinda gave away that he was a vigilante later by asking rayn (#246) and myself (#252) about our opinions of HolyFlare. 2. They might have been trying to shoot active, contributing townies that were unlikely to be watched by a medic. In a game with as many inactives as this one, this is, sadly, a solid strategy. 3. They might have been trying to protect Sergiovan. Although Koshi's #1 target was HolyFlare, he says this: On September 10 2018 04:55 Koshi wrote: I dont tr Sergio. Because if HF is mafia Sergio is likely as well. And I think HF is mafia. There are a few problems with this one, at least on its own: a) We don't know how Koshi would have reacted to Sergiovan after HolyFlare flipped town. b) Why kill Koshi before he tried to get the town to waste the day 2 lynch on HolyFlare? | ||
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Prplhz: why did you ask me to do that explanation? | ||
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You start focusing on Sergio with this post (which happened during the day 1 lynch): On September 08 2018 22:45 KelsierSC wrote: I'd only lynch sergio or vivax today. I think Koshi is very weird and gives me a bad feeling but not enough to lynch on. There's about 5 people who haven't posted so no idea what's going to happen with that but everyone else I sort of have reasons not to lynch. At this point, the only person to call him out is Koshi (as being connected to HolyFlare). Plus, your post comes one post after you yourself called out Koshi: On September 08 2018 22:39 KelsierSC wrote: Yeh I don't understand calling you "pants on head retarded" after you made one post about kaley's rhymes. @vivax at any time you could have said it was just a bad read based on nothing but you defended your read and acted that kaley was pushing rayn with a valid reason. Honestly this weird thing where you have now come back and said it "wasnt a real read" and then Koshi saying just looks really weird and contrived between the two of you. I can't say you are both mafia but I think one of you definitely is. When rayn asks you about it, you just say he should read the thread and ask you. This is me asking you. In your most recent vote, you say you're voting him because of Koshi's read. Do you have any special reason to trust Koshi's reads other than because he flipped town? His read was contingent on HolyFlare flipping mafia because he saw a connection between Sergio and HolyFlare, which didn't happen. Why do you still think his read was correct? | ||
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Also, the Vivax post was a continuation of a previous post, post #250 (posted for reference) + Show Spoiler + On September 10 2018 04:06 Qatol wrote: On another note, Vivax, I'm confused by your vote as well. I would like to hear more from you about it. So you have town reads on Sergio and Koshi. Your filter reveals you wanting to refrain from scumreading anyone. You softly defend Kaley and softly scumread me here: But then you back off from it here: But then, out of nowhere, you decide to vote for RoL, someone who hasn't even posted, has no votes on him, and is thus extremely unlikely to be lynched. Why? Just so your vote won't matter? How do you think that helps? You're just making it easier for the mafia to influence the vote. Especially in a game that's this as inactive as this one has been, this vote sticks out, considering you have been actively posting in the thread. This vote looks to me like you are afraid to take a stand against anyone. This really looks to me like you could be mafia who is pleased with how the lynch is going and didn't want to be accused of making a bandwagon vote. So please explain. Are you even reading? It feels like you're randomly throwing out accusations without even bothering to put together any sort of real case. Please, provide a real argument. Point to specific statements. This is seriously the most you have contributed to the game so far, unless you count pushing for lynches of inactives or defending Vivax because he thought Kaley was a smurf (a point that shouldn't really matter) and voted RoL. I'd like to get more conversation out of you. | ||
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So you asked me to do that post just for giggles? Why ask for a post and then not discuss anything in it other than its length? Also, the Vivax post was a continuation of a previous post, post #250 (posted for reference) + Show Spoiler + On September 10 2018 04:06 Qatol wrote: On another note, Vivax, I'm confused by your vote as well. I would like to hear more from you about it. So you have town reads on Sergio and Koshi. Your filter reveals you wanting to refrain from scumreading anyone. You softly defend Kaley and softly scumread me here: But then you back off from it here: But then, out of nowhere, you decide to vote for RoL, someone who hasn't even posted, has no votes on him, and is thus extremely unlikely to be lynched. Why? Just so your vote won't matter? How do you think that helps? You're just making it easier for the mafia to influence the vote. Especially in a game that's this as inactive as this one has been, this vote sticks out, considering you have been actively posting in the thread. This vote looks to me like you are afraid to take a stand against anyone. This really looks to me like you could be mafia who is pleased with how the lynch is going and didn't want to be accused of making a bandwagon vote. So please explain. Are you even reading? It feels like you're randomly throwing out accusations without even bothering to put together any sort of real case. Please, provide a real argument. Point to specific statements. This is seriously the most you have contributed to the game so far, unless you count pushing for lynches of inactives or defending Vivax because he thought Kaley was a smurf (a point that shouldn't really matter) and voted RoL. I'd like to get more conversation out of you. | ||
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On September 11 2018 03:26 prplhz wrote: I thought I'd get more out of the night kill discussion with you than I got but that didn't happen. I can't know in advance if your answer will help me discern your alignment. I don't really get the rest of your post as I didn't vote RoL, I (confusingly) retroactively recommended him for a lynch on D1 (after Kaley had been lynched) and a possible lynch on D2. Like, my first posts were just my thoughts upon reading the game after not having read anything yet. I don't think that voting for you makes me look afraid. You're kind of a big deal I think? Or used to be back in the days but you still have some of that going on for you. I'm not really sure what else you were hoping to get. Also, read the second post, not the first one. I screwed up the spoiler tag. The RoL vote thing was about Vivax. Who said anything about being afraid? All I said is that you haven't been posting and it would be helpful to hear more from you. If you feel strongly enough to vote for me, you should be able to make a reasonable argument that isn't just "Koshi and HolyFlare thought you were scummy" and "your Vivax post is shorter than your night analysis post". FYI, Koshi's primary argument was I'm too friendly, which you yourself pointed out doesn't really apply to players from my era, and he was asking me for advice on his vigi hit by the time he died. Half of HolyFlare's argument was just plain wrong, and the other half is me asking a question that I'm still wondering why more people weren't asking right before the lynch. On September 11 2018 03:30 prplhz wrote: Generally you don't avoid conflict in a game like this. I know it's a newbie game but it's full of veterans who will hold you up on every little thing you say. So please find something. Say something. It gives us all a better opportunity to read you. | ||
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On September 11 2018 22:29 KelsierSC wrote: I am conflicted on who to lynch. Vivax would be a good lynch as he hasn't contributed anything meaningful apart from that bad kaley read which has been talked about. H My vote on sergio is just looking at Koshi's reads, Sergio's strange response to HF and the way he went about asking his questions , which felt like "this is how town should play". However again there's a lot of question marks due to the large number of AFK's. RoL and Meapak are pretty much done at this point. But guys like prplhz , rels, damdred havent done anything at all. prplhz especially just looks like spam to avoid a modkill. It feels wrong to lynch someone like vivax or sergio who are playing the game and letting people who aren't doing anything slip through. My plan is to hover around at deadline and look for someone trying to dodge the modkill with some meaningless posts and lynch that guy. Realistically all we have to go on is the mafia kill of koshi. I can see 3 different reasons. 1) They read Koshi as a role 2) Koshi had good reads 3) Koshi is a good player and a good medic dodge. 1) Did Koshi really say anything that screamed he was a role, I don't see it. If you did read him as a role you assume he'd use his power on HF, Sergio or Qatol. That wouldn't necessarily incriminate anyone right as if you think you found a blue you just kill them. Can anyone give me a post from Koshi that looks blue ? The only other option I see is that mafia is good enough or familiar enough with Koshi to read him as blue based on very little , or at least his game being different from town and mafia know he isn't mafia so must be blue. I'd only give Rayn that much credit. 2) Koshi having good reads , well he had HF as mafia and that was wrong but he had Sergio and Qatol as mafia which makes the two of them look bad. I'm not sure of the two of them who it makes worse. 3) If no one is really close to mafia you just lynch a good townie. Rayn and HF are N1 medic targets or rayn could be mafia so you just kill the next best guy which would be Koshi. Sticking point behind a Rayn being mafia theory is that Rayn and Koshi townread eachother pretty hard. So I see two helpful scenaris Rayn is mafia and killed Koshi as they have familiarity etc and potentially rayn could read him as blue Kosih was killed for his reads which would make Sergio or Qatol mafia, of the two i'd prefer Sergio. I've rambled on a lot here as I try to order my thoughts. So my play is to stay active at deadline then lynch into any AFK trying to ninja post/vote. But i'm keeping eyes on rayn and sergio. What the heck is this? This looks like you restated post #286, except you don't identify the posts where Koshi hinted he had a role (posts 76, 246, and 252). Why is HolyFlare a good N1 medic target? Koshi was sumreading HF really hard. In fact, Koshi thought HF was scummy enough to use a vigi shot on him. Shouldn't that mean "do not shoot HF at all costs?" I'm surprised you group Vivax together with Sergio as "playing the game" but prplhz and Rels as not. I agree Sergio is contributing. The other three seem to have contributed about the same amount to the conversation, unless you count arguing over whether Kaley was a smurf or lightly townreading Kaley without reading. | ||
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On September 11 2018 22:39 raynpelikoneet wrote: I think i want to lynch Kelsier. Make a good case for it and I'll probably back you. That last post doesn't sit so well with me. I'll look and see if I see anything redeeming in his filter. | ||
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On September 11 2018 23:48 KelsierSC wrote: both you and Qatol could just ask for an explanation rather than posting a bunch of insulting stuff which makes you look foolish I never meant to insult you and I sincerely apologize if there's anything I said that did insult you. Please let me know what I said so I can do better in the future. I really do try my hardest to attack arguments, not people. | ||
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On September 11 2018 23:53 KelsierSC wrote: Nothing is happening in D2, literally no one is posting. The only thing I have to work with is the Koshi night kill so I posted my thoughts on it, even asking for people to link me posts where koshi hinted at blue and I get called mafia and people saying "what the heck is this" I am voting sergio at the start of the day because of the Koshi nightkill and my own thoughts on D1. I still have vivax as scum but im using the new information for my vote. However as there hasn't been anything contributed this day and we have a bunch of AFK's i would rather lynch one of those NOW. I haven't unvoted sergio yet. Okay, my apologies for that comment. You are completely right, I shouldn't have said that. I was just a little surprised because you clearly took quite a bit of time to say almost exactly the same things I did. On September 11 2018 23:54 KelsierSC wrote: and why is HF a good N1 medic target? because he is the best player on the site and mafia usually tries to kill those people. This is also something I wasn't aware of; his first game seems to be ~2 years after I stopped following the site closely. As far as I'm concerned, Ver is still the best mafia player on the site. I am curious what statements from HolyFlare and Koshi you're relying on to vote Sergio. | ||
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On September 11 2018 23:53 raynpelikoneet wrote: dear god, did Koshi actually hint being blue? I was ~90% sure he was from post #76 (though not which role). He didn't seem the type to frequently get lynched day 1, which would be the only other reason I could see for him to get that nervous about getting lynched that early. It's why my strategy with him was to basically tell the thread "look at him later, but he might be suspicious." Looking back at it, posts 246 and 252 were pretty clear requests for our blessing on how he was using his vigi hit. I think there's a chance the mafia could have caught on. | ||
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On September 12 2018 00:27 KelsierSC wrote: Prplhz could definitely be mafia. His timing to pop up in the thread end of the night is oddly suspicious Do you have any arguments about him other than his timing? | ||
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On September 12 2018 00:23 KelsierSC wrote: There was this comment from Sergio which I mentioned I didn't like. This felt wrong to me, completely out of proportion to what had happened. A lot of the game hadn't even posted at that time and he lashes out at hf really strongly. I'm looking back over what Koshi wrote and he didn't make a "sergio is mafia for X" reasons. He did reference a scum read on him several times though. An example comment. I've looked back over koshi's posts and it's a bit of a drunken mess but his main scum reads are you , sergio and hf. Hf is dead If I want to find reasons he was killed it's because either you or sergio are scum. Or he was read as a role and I think only rayn is familiar enough or good enough to do that. The third option is he was a town who was killed to dodge medic saves but that could be done by anyone so it isn't helpful. I don't see the post you're pointing to as being a scumread, more like calling Sergio out for not explaining his actions better. Koshi did push Sergio, but only as a conditional (i.e., if Holyflare then Sergiovan). Wouldn't that mean the mafia has every reason to leave Koshi alive and let him push holyflare for lynch day 2? I am not defending Sergio by any means, but I like arguments that make sense to me and this one doesn't. You said you are looking for reasons Koshi was killed and the strongest reason you can think of is because either Sergio or I am scum. You pointed out that he went after Sergio and myself. You mentioned HolyFlare is the best mafia player on the site. He was pushing me harder than anyone else. Further, Holyflare's very last post said this: On September 10 2018 07:07 Holyflare wrote: Sergio cool now. Why aren't you pushing me? Why Sergio? | ||
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You've played enough games to know that people will sometimes vote for the person that was being accused by the night kill target. I can absolutely see a townie voting for Sergio based on Koshi's posts (even though I think Koshi's argument has fallen apart). I don't think he ever said he was voting Sergio based on HF's reads (though why isn't he looking at HF's reads more closely if he thinks HF is a better player than Koshi? just because of the night kill?) Easily your strongest point is this: As a cherry on top of the cake he says this: What's the point of voting for someone who you aren't even planning on lynching????? The pressure factor is gone right here because Kelsier basically said he is going to do something else by the end of the day. I absolutely agree on this point and would like Kelsier to explain the logic behind this point. At the end of the day, everyone in this game signed up to play. If they are at all interested in playing more in the future, why wouldn't they try to dodge a modkill? This looks to me like a push to, at best (assuming proportional inactives between the mafia and town), to take a shot in the dark prayer, hoping to hit mafia. I would like to see Kelsier respond to some of these points before I vote him though. On a related point, I strongly disagree with anyone who thinks that lynching an inactive at this point is the best policy. We have no way to identify whether they are town or mafia whatsoever, except by process of elimination. Plus we know that at least someone from the mafia is participating in the game (or there wouldn't have been a night kill). The odds are simply not behind a blind shot in the dark. | ||
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On September 12 2018 01:14 KelsierSC wrote: Because I can see the scenario where Koshi is lynched either for role because he scum reads qatol and it makes hf/sergio look bad in the process. But then HF dies unexpectedly and now Qatol is kind of fucked. If this looks like a sheep and a massive contradiction to what i've been saying , that's because it is. ##Vote: Qatol As odd as it is to say considering you wound up voting for me, thank you. This is the post I was looking for, though I disagree with the result (as I still don't think HF's argument made any sense and I still don't think Koshi found me scummy when he died). I'm taking this as a strong statement of "fed up townie who doesn't know what to think after defending himself for 2 pages." On September 12 2018 04:20 KelsierSC wrote: Ok so we have about 19 different people who have votes on them, Rels, damdred,vivax, me,qatol, sergio ...anyone else? Just consolidate votes because right now mafia just vote on whichever rando target isnt them and this lynch is a crap shoot. HF and Koshi both had Qatol as scum, looking at the night kills koshi is a great one for qatol to make but he didnt count on hf being shot. it's a genuinely solid lynch and should be a good one. The AFK lynch is a crap shoot and any votes there are bad and make you instantly scummy, any "reason" for rels or damdred or RoL or prpl at this point is sort shitty. You can pick another person if you legitimately make a good case on them, fuck you can think rayn is right and vote me I wont give a shit just dont vote on an AFK and peace out. This is also true, and was exactly what I was thinking getting to this point. 1-2 votes on a bunch of different people is ridiculously easy for the mafia to manipulate. As I posted earlier, lynching an inactive is just silly. That includes Damdred. If he doesn't post by this time day 3, I'm fine with a lynch on him. Until then, we have no idea why he didn't come back and his disappearance says nothing to us about whether or not he's mafia. Of the people with votes right now, I would most prefer a lynch of Vivax. I could live with a Rels lynch. I'm also not comfortable with how heavily prplhz has been defending/sheeping Vivax all game (post 266, post 291, post 355). He said: On September 11 2018 05:20 prplhz wrote: Generally I find some people who 1) Are good at finding scum 2) Are town And then I sheep them. That's really how I do. I rarely do a lot of analysis because I'm really not very good at it. But I wrote a few points on you that I myself find to be something I would expect more from scum. So prplhz decided to latch onto Vivax? What exactly makes you (prplhz) think Vivax is town? What makes you think he's good at finding scum? | ||
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On September 12 2018 04:20 Sergiovan wrote: Qatol: as to post #282 you could be right. I’ve re-read your post with the double negatives (#247) a couple of times and what I was reading into it actually could easily be you mis-writing what you meant or me mis-reading it. I think what you meant was that no pushback = town!kaley which is a fine argument to make but your post still gives me the heebie-jeebies and I just can’t explain why. Qatol’s post #286 shows that he successfully read Koshi as blue d1. Given that Koshi was pushing two townies, HF and myself, as red for most of n1 I can’t think of another reason for scum to kill Koshi besides his role. (I can’t expect any of you to share my read of this necessarily at this point since I haven’t flipped but you’ll have to trust me on this or return to it after I flip). Based on my gut feelings and this potential scum slip Qatol is second priority for the lynch. Though his push on Vivax has me going back and forth in my head since I happen to think Vivax is scummier than Qatol and I do not think they are scum together since I believe that Vivax’s RB claim is too high risk for a scum team with multiple active members in this town. You are correct in what I meant. I probably worded it poorly. My apologies. Post #286 wasn't a slip. I stated it again in post #323. He was unnaturally nervous in post #76, and I caught it. And, although I didn't catch it at the time, there isn't really another reason why he would be urgently gathering reads on HF in the middle of the night while drunk (posts #248 and #252) other than vigilante or detective, with vigilante being most likely. He could have waited until he was sober otherwise. I wouldn't be surprised if the mafia caught it too. As far as your case on Vivax goes: + Show Spoiler + On September 12 2018 04:09 Sergiovan wrote: The case for Vivax In this case I will show that Vivax has shown out of game knowledge of alignments that could only come from scum. In post #89 Vivax explains a town read on Kaley that comes mostly “from the gut” while also trying to give real reasoning for it I.e. that Kaley is attacking Rayn. But in post #119 Vivax says that he isn’t sure if Kaley is genuinely pushing Rayn and that he hasn’t read her full post. Therefore the alignment read that Vivax had on Kaley didn’t come from an actual read but was instead manufactured by Vivax ## Vote: Vivax Somewhat tangentially I also believe that, assuming I’m right and Vivax is scum, the other two scum will be very in active as his claim of being role blocked is high reward/high risk as any counter claim would instantly put Vivax on the chopping block while a lack of one could lead towards a ‘confirmed town’ status for Vivax. Assuming a Scum!Vivax I believe the d3 lynch should be RoL since he is an inactive and Vivax put an inexplicable d1 vote on him. Your primary argument is one that was made previously, including by you in post #147. I think it makes sense and it should make sense. However, I disagree that both other two scum have to be inactive. I don't know how new you are to TL mafia, but it's pretty much always been the case that mafia can communicate privately. In this game, in the sample PMs: Mafia has a quicktopic in which they can communicate. That's why Vivax's roleblock claim does not and should not move the needle unless he dies and flips town (which I don't think will happen). If there is a roleblocker at all (also not guaranteed), the mafia could just not use it and have Vivax claim it was placed on him. | ||
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On September 12 2018 05:08 prplhz wrote: I already thought he was town yesterday for pushing against the Kaley lynch with some decent arguments. I don't know if he's great at finding scum, I agree with him on Damdred and I find it more likely we'll lynch Damdred over you today. Which push against the Kaley lynch? Which arguments? The ones he later admitted were part of "a crappy feels-read?" Or maybe this one? On September 09 2018 01:16 Vivax wrote: Yea it isn't a smurf after reading through the profile. And it sure as hell isn't a she. I was sure it was a new acc just for this game, meh. I was wrong. But the rapping thing isn't something exclusive to this game. It's just his hobby. I don't want to vote him though. There's too many shitty votes on kaley floating about, some policy like rayn, some for weird analysis of the rap like from Qatol. And you for no reason. If that's the case, why are you pushing for what is effectively a policy lynch on damdred now? Note that Vivax called rayn's policy vote a "shitty vote" in the post I quoted. | ||
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On September 12 2018 05:51 raynpelikoneet wrote: So Vivax is basically confirmed town unless the roleblock went on Holyflare. Whats up Serge? Youre voting for confirmed town. Or unless there's no roleblocker. Or unless the roleblocker decided not to roleblock (might be an inactive? might be a strategy by the mafia?) | ||
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On September 12 2018 05:47 prplhz wrote: Yes, that one. I don't really know if I get your policy lynch point, but I don't think Damdred is a policy lynch. Then please explain to me in simple terms the reasoning behind the damdred lynch. I get that he said he would be back and didn't come back. How does that make him mafia? | ||
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On September 12 2018 07:40 Rels wrote: He didn't "give it away" since ... he wasn't blue! Odd choice of words I think. Unless you come frm the perspective of being sure that Koshi would flip blue. Uhhh.... On September 10 2018 08:00 kitaman27 wrote: [center]Day 2 Koshi the Town Vigilante has been killed. Holyflare the Vanilla Town has been killed. It is now day 2. You have 48 hours to vote for your preferred lynch. The deadline is Tuesday, Sep 11 10:59pm GMT (GMT+00:00), which is in . Voting is mandatory and must be done in the voting thread. ??? | ||
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A random lynch of someone who has posted no relevant content. You never explained why this is anything other than that, so I am forced to assume that damdred is being policy lynched for inactivity. As far as I can tell, at best, you have a 3 in 10 chance of hitting mafia, unless I'm missing something. | ||
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On September 12 2018 07:57 Rels wrote: you even said something like "Koshi doesn't look lik someone that is hard to lynch" at some point right ? Why did you think that ? I didn't say that. Find the post and I'll explain my thought process. | ||
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On September 12 2018 08:00 Rels wrote: we can kill a lot of people that didn't vote yesterday On August 20 2018 00:57 kitaman27 wrote: Activity: You are expected to keep up with the thread and participate in discussion daily. If for some reason you anticipate that you will not be available for a period longer than 24 hours, please notify a host ahead of time. I will be looking for at least 3 posts per cycle, so 1 post every 24 hours. Players will not be removed from the game for activity or failure to vote, but may face post game punishment. (Underline added) | ||
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What about it? I said Koshi is unlikely to be lynched day 1, as in unlikely to be repeatedly lynched early for policy/poor play/whatever (which would be the other reason I could see him being nervous). That is basically the opposite of "Koshi doesn't look like someone that is hard to lynch." | ||
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On September 12 2018 08:07 Rels wrote: kinda cheesy, but almost lock town right there for that. As far as I know rayn don't dumbtell as scum Then why did he provide the hammer vote on an absolutely horrible damdred lynch? As in, if he did not vote damdred, then damdred would not have been lynched (it would have been vivax). As I have been pointing out, damdred had exactly 1 post during the game. This was a mafia-endorsed "policy lynch." I say endorsed because it was a majority vote of 3, and a single vote switch could and did change the result. Isn't rayn supposed to be the best player left in this game? That vote is making me at least reconsider him. | ||
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On September 12 2018 07:55 Rels wrote: you got lucky with your unlikely assumption being right or maybe you really caught him with his posts asking for advice during the night but that post is not a blueslip, and no VT would think it is Please take a step back and think things through. It doesn't matter if I got lucky or not. We were speculating on reasons for why Koshi got hit. I mentioned that I think that post painted him as blue. Again, it doesn't matter if that was a blueslip or not to you. To me, it was one. Explain to me why me mentioning that makes me mafia. Not to dive too deeply into wifom, but what would mafia say in that situation? Why would mafia volunteer that information? Again, we are probably at lylo. If we are unable to coordinate town votes on a mafia, we lose. | ||
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On September 13 2018 05:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: What the....? idk which is worse, this post here or the fact that noone who has posted after this has had nothing to say about this. What is so surprising about wanting to reevaluate you? You jumped onto the bandwagon of a player with exactly 1 post in the game and with a nonexistent argument for lynching him. On top of that, it was done at a time when a mislynch most likely puts us at lylo. At the very least, I think an explanation is in order. | ||
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Why did you think damdred had a "decent chance of flipping mafia"? Again, the entire argument against him was "he said he would come back but he didn't." What about that did you find to be so persuasive? Why do you have a townread on Vivax? | ||
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On September 13 2018 05:38 raynpelikoneet wrote: Like i literally came here with the time i had, saw that there was no interest in my preferred lynch (Kelsier), said i didn't want to lynch the other two of the three wagons (which i had already said even before they were actual wagons), and decided to vote for a the last possible option. Like it's already fucking bullshit how the votes have gone all game because in a game with 3 mafia (even if RoL is mafia in this game) you are never ever gonna lynch mafia with 3 votes unless mafia is just garbage, let alone with 2 votes. Leaving my vote on Kelsier was not an option. Because i want to even have a chance of lynching mafia and in my opinion voting for Damdred was the best chance out of those three. This is a point I was hoping you would make. However, I'd still like to hear why you thought damdred was the best choice or why vivax is so town to you. Judging from posts other people have been making, you're supposed to be the best scumhunter left. On top of that, your posts have been relatively reasoned, so I'm wondering why you jumped onto a train with such a weak case. | ||
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On September 13 2018 05:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: Have you even read anything i have written in this game? Absolutely. From what I can tell, you decided vivax is confirmed town based entirely on him claiming to have been roleblocked. Is there anything else? You were at this point before that: On September 08 2018 04:27 raynpelikoneet wrote: fuck, i try to make this very simple. If Kaley is a smurf, she is always mafia, because the vote on me is either garbage, or she is intentionally doing nothing. And you townread her for that. That's my problem with you Vivax. I understand Koshi had a townread on Vivax. It was also a day 1 only read. Plus, after you commented on that, you said this: [QUOTE]On September 09 2018 20:54 raynpelikoneet wrote: [QUOTE]On September 09 2018 20:51 Vivax wrote: Kaley wasn't the worst of lynches considering that his raps would have remained his only contributions for the rest of the game. But I'm wary of anyone who tried to argue that the above wasn't the only reason.[/QUOTE] I am not sure what you are trying to say here. Very easy argument to make since he flipped town, and idgaf how vary you will be of me for the rest of the game because if you are not saying what i was just above then i disagree with you.[/QUOTE I'm surprised town!rayn would be so quick to change his mind, unless there's something I am missing. As far as damdred goes, please explain more thoroughly, because I simply don't understand. Why damdred over rels? | ||
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On September 13 2018 05:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: Have you even read anything i have written in this game? Absolutely. From what I can tell, you decided vivax is confirmed town based entirely on him claiming to have been roleblocked. Is there anything else? You were at this point before that: On September 08 2018 04:27 raynpelikoneet wrote: fuck, i try to make this very simple. If Kaley is a smurf, she is always mafia, because the vote on me is either garbage, or she is intentionally doing nothing. And you townread her for that. That's my problem with you Vivax. I understand Koshi had a townread on Vivax. It was also a day 1 only read. Plus, after you commented on that, you said this: On September 09 2018 20:54 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am not sure what you are trying to say here. Very easy argument to make since he flipped town, and idgaf how vary you will be of me for the rest of the game because if you are not saying what i was just above then i disagree with you. I'm surprised town!rayn would be so quick to change his mind, unless there's something I am missing. As far as damdred goes, please explain more thoroughly, because I simply don't understand. Why damdred over rels? | ||
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1. Koshi's support of him means something to you. 2. You also saw him claim roleblock despite not being under too much pressure (I happen to disagree, considering I had already accused him, Kelsier was leaning that direction, and sergio hadn't backed off on him, but that isn't the point). You believe this claim to have been genuine because of the following logic. Because Koshi's vigi shot went through, Koshi obviously wasn't roleblocked. Nobody else has claimed to have been roleblocked. That means that, assuming there was a roleblock, it would have to have gone on either HF or Vivax. Is there anything he has said, other than the roleblock claim, that makes you think he's town? | ||
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On September 13 2018 06:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am going to tell you a secret. Mafia never writes this: + Show Spoiler + On September 12 2018 00:54 Vivax wrote: It's also been a while since HF got killed N1 simply cause HF is a player everyone who knows him is always paranoid about and he becomes a potential mislynch as the game goes on. So a Qatol made decision would fit here, simply cause he doesn't know enough about HF. can you understand why? Please explain it to me. I tried to work it out, but my evaluation of the statement falls apart at the point where Vivax talks about a "Qatol made decision," considering the mafia didn't make a decision about HF, other than maybe roleblocking him. Unless you are pointing out that the incorrect logic is a reason to trust Vivax? | ||
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On September 13 2018 06:02 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Put together a little matrix with all the current alive players and their current reads (as near as I can tell). I had this feeling a lot of people haven’t really given strong reads or have simply called a bunch of people town which at this point in the game I thing is a sure sign of someone trying to avoid being noticed. A quick note about this, I have not included RoL since he literally has no posts. Kelsier Scum: Town: NA Meapak Scum: Rels Town: prplhz Rels Scum: qatol Town: Sergio rayn kelsier vivax Qatol Scum: vivax kelsier? Town: NA Rayn Scum: kelsier Town: Sergio Qatol vivax? Prplhz Sergio Scum: vivax Town: NA Vivax Scum: Qatol? Town: Sergio MZ Prplhz Scum: Qatol Town: NA Firstly, if you disagree with how I’ve classified your reads please let me know, it’s always good to nail down people on what they’re thinking. Secondly, a few things jump out at me. Rels has called a lot of people town and only has one scum read, Qatol, who half the remaining players have as scum so it’s a very safe read. I’m pretty certain Rels is scum at this point when pared with the other analysis I did. Another person who jumps out is Rayn. Along with Rels, he’s got a lot of town reads and more importantly they share Sergio as a town read. Sergio has been fantastically useless, has asked a loooot of filler questions, and has only one claim to fame which is a scum read on vivax. Rayn has Kelsier as a scum read but hasn’t really done much to push that. Vivax is also worth noting because he has the easy scumread on qatol but also has a townread on Sergio as well. So after looking at all this, what I’m left with is Rels: 100% scum. Sergio: 90% scum, Rayn: 70% Vivax: 50% (only scum if one of the other 3 is somehow town). As a quick explanation for my thought process, what I look for right now are people pushing easy reads as scum, and people who are quick to call many people town. Scum push easy reads so they can blend in, which is why I'm not a huge fan of the Qatol votes, regardless of the validity of the case, if a lot of people are doing it you can be sure there are a few scum trying to slip under the radar. This is a nail in the coffin for Rels. Rayn has called a lot of people town, but most importantly Sergio who has done nothing to warrant this. I don't have a scumread on kelsier. I do have one on prplhz. I'm also willing to vote Rels in lylo. I'm not going to provide my townreads unless they are under serious pressure, because I think it just hands the mafia information about the consensus most trusted players. | ||
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On September 13 2018 06:27 raynpelikoneet wrote: You think mafia!Vivax comes here on D2 and tells "holyflare night kill points towards Qatol" when, if he is mafia, he clearly knows that's not what happened? Like he makes an utterly "bullshit case" when he knows every single person in the game knows is bullshit if they have just looked at the day post.... Okay, fair point. Clearly I'm not seeing the forest for the trees on this one, and I'm willing to reconsider vivax based on what happens tonight. If accusing Vivax isn't productive, then let's talk about prplhz. He latched onto Vivax pretty hard on day 2. In fact, he followed Vivax onto damdred after he made the argument you mentioned and his justification for latching onto Vivax was: On September 11 2018 05:20 prplhz wrote: Generally I find some people who 1) Are good at finding scum 2) Are town And then I sheep them. That's really how I do. I rarely do a lot of analysis because I'm really not very good at it. But I wrote a few points on you that I myself find to be something I would expect more from scum. | ||
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On September 13 2018 06:30 raynpelikoneet wrote: Incorrect logic does not make anyone mafia per se, but like... If Vivax is mafia he HAS TO KNOW what really happened during the night because when you are mafia night is your time, you kill people at night. Do you remember a time when you didn't know who you nightkilled when posting the next day as mafia? Sure you can argue "he is faking" but you can also argue "kitaman made as all town and this is jsut a bastard game" and i think that's almost evenly likely..... I've only been mafia once, and we had a prominent team member (L) who didn't know the night kills; this was before quicktopics were used. That being said, I understand your point. I just wish you had made it earlier. I will back off of Vivax for now. | ||
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On a side note, rayn, could you please call him prplhz and not purplehaze? It's hard to search your filter for your posts on him. | ||
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On September 13 2018 06:56 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Who's the scum team Qatol? If it's not Rels/Rayn/Sergio(vivax) then who have you got? I would actually be pretty comfortable lynching rayn at this point but I think rels is a much better option. I like prplhz for mafia. Your case on rels makes sense to me. I'm honestly not sure about the third one; this is where I had vivax. I think they have someone who noticed Koshi blueslipping, so it would have to be someone relatively perceptive. Rayn meets that criteria (and honestly, I think the town has already lost if rayn is red). | ||
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On September 13 2018 07:32 raynpelikoneet wrote: What did you want Qatol? You answered it, but while you're asking, am I correct in thinking your mafia list is Kelsier and Rels? Who is your third? | ||
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On September 13 2018 07:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: you, rels and serge, in that order. On September 13 2018 07:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: Kelsier, Rels, RoL My best guess, in that order. ??? What happened here? | ||
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On September 13 2018 08:07 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Vivax unfortunately doesn't give us much except for a scum read on Qatol. I'm torn between thinking he was killed for the rb claim or killed bc he had by far the most reasonable points against qatol. Nevertheless, I'm pretty comfortable I'm on the right track with at least my Rels read and rayn's insta vote on Kelsier looks fairly terrible. What "most reasonable points" against me? This is the type of post that gets everyone confused later (and mirrors the posts made about HF and Koshi, which lack real substance). Please point to a specific post if you're going to say this. Otherwise, it just turns into the same game of misguided telephone I've spent most of the game trying to defuse. Are you talking about post 333? As far as your Rels read goes, as I stated before, I'm inclined to agree. | ||
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All he's asking you to do is vote for someone you already have pegged as scum. Again, this is lylo. Town needs to vote overwhelmingly. | ||
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On September 13 2018 08:41 raynpelikoneet wrote: whatever you are not getting majority on rels unless it is mafia, so take that into account, 100% truth. Awesome. So are you saying it's lynch Kelsier or bust? Or are you only unwilling to vote for Rels now? | ||
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On September 13 2018 08:45 raynpelikoneet wrote: ........................................... ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????? I meant vote for rels and not kelsier. You said yourself you think rels is mafia, albeit your #2 read. However, this is lylo. We need to focus our votes. I get that you and Meapak are at odds right now. However, you both agree that rels is mafia. All I'm asking is that you follow your reads. Again, this is lylo. | ||
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On September 13 2018 16:25 KelsierSC wrote: I'm thinking why vivax was killed, he was town read by some and scum read by some, however his major scum read after damdred was Qatol and only activity was saving him. These quotes show he is setting himself up to lynch whatever AFK is town and win, which is at odds with his previous approach to not lynching AFK's. These reason and night kill logic almost confirm qatol as mafia ##Vote: Qatol I really don't have time for this, but, because the game is literally on the line, I'll try to make this point one more time in the brief moment I have: This. isn't. helping. I can't tell if you're scum pushing an obviously false narrative or a townie who has locked in on a misguided read and refuses to think about it any more. If you're the former, I need to prevent you from confusing the actual townies. If you're the latter, because it's lylo, I unfortunately have to persuade you to think about what you're saying, so here goes: Your argument re: Koshi is reliant upon the assumption that the mafia team felt so threatened by Koshi's early posts towards me that they needed to use a night kill on him to protect me. For once and for all: what did Koshi say that was so threatening? I don't want to hear that he "accused me." That's how you're building up this false assumption in the first place. What. did. he. say? Is it really bad enough that the mafia would be threatened? Re: HF, again: What. did. he. say? His argument was jumping on me for being uneasy about the lynch train on Kaley (think about it: is that really anti-town?) and a mistaken assumption that I jumped on a bandwagon on Kaley (I didn't). Here's my point. This entire portion of your argument is based on them having strong, reasonable accusations. The problem is those accusations aren't. You are literally trying to put the entire game on me being scum because the mafia was threatened by Koshi saying I was "too friendly" and a weird, early day 1 deconstruction of a post. I'm not sure even Koshi believed his argument on that one (he certainly stopped posting about it quickly enough). As far as Vivax goes, aren't you at least a little concerned that he might have been killed because rayn spent the whole night explaining to the thread (and me specifically) why he was basically a confirmed townie? And even if he wasn't confirmed by that discussion, maybe vivax was killed because the mafia wanted to roleblock someone else (meapak) without confirming vivax? Finally, where did I ever say I supported lynching an AFK? Those quotes don't support that. You're making assumptions to try and support your narrative. Again, the game is literally on the line. Please think about what you're saying. Your argument is reliant upon false assumptions and falls apart when they are removed. | ||
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1) Support Meapak's read of Rels 2) Convince Meapak and every other townie to vote for someone else 3) Vote for me Considering the level of activity in the thread, #2 is extremely unlikely. Here's something else that should help on this point: I won't support a lynch of rayn. His actions on day 3 don't make sense for mafia. I'll explain more in a follow-up post in a moment. As far as #3 goes, if you honestly believe the arguments being made, then, by all means vote me. But, I cannot emphasize this enough, read the arguments. Don't just focus on the fact that so-and-so "accused me." This is lazy, bad play. If, after reading everything, you still feel like I'm mafia (and then you probably need to reevaluate how you read people after the game), then, by all means. At least you approached things with the right mindset, even if you reached the wrong conclusion. Anything less is giving the game to the mafia. Hopefully you will rule out #3 as an option as well. That means the town's only chance is a vote for Rels. | ||
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On September 15 2018 01:55 raynpelikoneet wrote: we only need every other townie (if meapak is town it doesnt matter). why are you so sure he is town? Let me make the voting simple for everyone, because town!meapak does matter: town!meapak votes town!rels every other townie votes the same scum (4 votes total) all 3 mafia vote town!rels (4 votes total) You're now looking at tiebreakers to determine the game. Do you really think the town is going to coordinate itself on a single scum faster than the mafia coordinates itself on town!rels? As far as my read on Meapak goes, it's related to my read on you, which is a longer post. Don't worry, it's coming. | ||
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Stop and think for one moment. What is the mafia's goal today? It's pretty simple: it's mylo, so they want a mislynch at all costs. As Sergio pointed out, the most votes any potential mafioso has had the whole game is one. They haven't exactly been pressured very hard. In other words, the town has basically been self destructing the whole game on its own. With all of that in mind, what is the best way to go about getting one more townie lynch? By waiting for a small bandwagon to form on someone they know is town and then to jump on it. Even better if the townie they are voting with happens to be relatively inactive. All they have to do is make sure that they follow the townie in a way that doesn't make the townie suspicious. So, with that in mind, what would be the absolute worst thing the mafia could do? Getting in a big argument with a townie, drawing attention to every little thing they have possibly done that is even remotely suspicious seems pretty awful. That's an easy way to make themselves an easy lynch candidate in a town as swingy as this one! So why would rayn or Meapak do something like that? They aren't even pushing for lynches on each other right now! The answer is pretty simple. Additionally, Meapak has claimed to be roleblocked and nobody has counterclaimed. This doesn't make him 100% town on its own, but it should carry significant weight. On top of that, the mafia shouldn't be feeling a huge amount of urgency. Why would they? Although this is mylo, they haven't even lost any members yet! Plus, as I mentioned above, none of them have ever received more than a single vote. As far as the voting analysis of rayn goes, it's completely bogus. Day 1, rayn was voting for someone who was accusing him and literally doing nothing else constructive, even after being asked to meaningfully contribute. Nothing obviously scummy about that. Day 2, rayn had a strong townread on vivax. When the vote was winding down, vivax was the lynch, and there clearly wasn't going to be a switch to rayn's favored target, Kelsier. Rayn saw the vote as being between someone he was sure was town (vivax) or someone he wasn't sure on (damdred). It makes perfect sense that town!rayn would switch. | ||
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On September 15 2018 01:56 raynpelikoneet wrote: also tell me why you let the shit argument run around in the thread? Frankly, you're right and I should have made more of an effort to stop it. You will note that I made a halfhearted effort to stop it here: On September 13 2018 06:53 Qatol wrote: rayn and meapak, I think you've reached the point of diminishing returns. Is either of you seriously pushing for the other as the lynch target for day 3 anyways? Remember, we have to coordinate our votes or the town loses. On a side note, rayn, could you please call him prplhz and not purplehaze? It's hard to search your filter for your posts on him. I fully realize this isn't a defense of you, which I should have posted, but all I can do on this point is plead lack of clear thought (if you must know, I have to do things that aggravate a serious spinal condition and it means I'm not sleeping very well). I'm running on a full 10 hours of sleep now, however, and am hoping it helps. | ||
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On September 15 2018 02:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: fuck why dont you guys want to vote for Kelsier? Like what is the reason, you are just bnanging on someone based on a shit case? pfffffffffffff.......... Maybe rels is mafia, but maybe he isnt. kelsier is however like he literally made two sets of reads (his own -- and the one based on night kills) and he played with the deck he found more comfrotable.... townies do their own choises, right or wrong. My reluctance to vote for Kelsier comes down to 2 posts: On September 12 2018 00:40 KelsierSC wrote: I could lynch anyone apart from you and rayn. (directed at me) Followed, after being pushed a bit more, by: On September 12 2018 01:14 KelsierSC wrote: Because I can see the scenario where Koshi is lynched either for role because he scum reads qatol and it makes hf/sergio look bad in the process. But then HF dies unexpectedly and now Qatol is kind of fucked. If this looks like a sheep and a massive contradiction to what i've been saying , that's because it is. ##Vote: Qatol (Underline added by me) That's a pretty fearless statement to make for a townie, going against your reads like that. I think what happened is he got frustrated by me pushing him on his scumreads (I was trying to get him to realize that maybe he shouldn't give so much weight to the reads of Koshi and HF) and decided he would trust players that he perceives as being better than him. You should know that this phenomenon isn't especially uncommon for townies, especially with a townie who feels like they aren't especially good at the game. I'm hoping that means that other people in the thread can persuade him to change his mind; my conversations with Kelsier since then have clearly proven that I cannot do that. I'm not saying it isn't possible he is mafia. It's entirely possible he's only pretending to be a tunneling townie. However, I've seen the phenomenon too often to be sure. That's why I would prefer not to vote for him today. If you can build up enough support for him today to get a lynch through, I'll support it. However, because sergio and meapak are also against it, and I think a scumteam of meapak/sergio/Kelsier is very unlikely, that means that we need to focus on someone else right now. Remember, the most important thing right now is to get the town coordinated on a single person they all think is likely scum. | ||
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On September 15 2018 02:57 Sergiovan wrote: So Qatol, from that I gather that you read Rayn and Meapak as town, yes? Yes | ||
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On September 15 2018 03:06 Sergiovan wrote: Qatol: Meapak’s RB claim is total WIFOM. Scum could easily have not sent a RB and claimed it themselves. I think Meapak appears townie but that isn’t a good reason to think so Notice that my read isn't really based on that. I'm just pointing out that it's an additional thing that would have had to happen for scum!meapak to be true. Let me take this a step further. Think about who the mafia shot last night. Again, rayn spent a decent chunk of the night explaining why vivax was extremely likely town. I think they were worried enough about a potential medic that setting up the claim by meapak wouldn't be worth it. And again, this is just a supporting point to my main argument anyways. | ||
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On September 15 2018 03:18 raynpelikoneet wrote: Qatol would you, or would you able to make these posts as mafia, on this page? I doubt it. Mafia!Qatol wouldn't be so eager to call attention to this being mylo. Mafia!Qatol also wouldn't be so worried about not splitting the vote. There simply wouldn't be the same urgency. If you really want insight into mafia!Qatol, after the one game I was scum, I did a full writeup on the game including my thought process here: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/92894-qatols-mafia-vii-experience | ||
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On September 15 2018 03:23 raynpelikoneet wrote: I think you are misrepping a bit here. Probably 70% of the game (my guess since i didnt talk with anyone except for you and meapak) were afk when i was around at nightphase. I'm not sure what I'm misrepresenting. This actually isn't saying anything about you other than you pointed out that vivax was unlikely to be mafia. I'm not saying it was scummy. I'm not actually even saying it was pro-town. All I'm saying is you made a relatively persuasive argument for vivax being almost confirmed town, and that it's likely that at least some townies would be persuaded by it. That makes vivax both a good target for the mafia night kill but also a good target for a medic. Because he's a good medic target, the mafia are less likely to try and use the roleblock to establish their own credibility. Again, my main point has to do with how the two of you acted at the beginning of Day 3 not fitting what I would expect from the mafia team. | ||
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On September 15 2018 03:21 raynpelikoneet wrote: About Kelsier, who are you taking about in this part: ? I'm talking about Kelsier. Let me try and say this a different way: I think that only a townie would act in such a fearless manner. I think a mafioso would be much more concerned about being lynched for obviously going against their reads like that. | ||
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On September 15 2018 03:43 raynpelikoneet wrote: can someone tell why meapak's case on rels is good? can everyone who is not on rels or kelsier either vote for those two or argue why their case is better? pleasE? Give me a sec, I'll explain why I have a scumread on rels. The short version is that he dogpiled on me with a super crappy argument, which is exactly what I expected to see from scum. | ||
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In particular, Rels's accusation was as follows: + Show Spoiler + On September 12 2018 07:38 Rels wrote: On the other hand I see NOONE except someone looking actively for blues reading this post: And thinking: "mm yeah this person is 90% blue" And THEN making this post: Oh yeah. Really 90% sure Koshi was town at that point. In other words, his "contribution" was that it isn't pro-town to look for blues. However, as anyone who looks for mafia by evaluating how nervous they appear would know, a huge part of that is distinguishing blues from reds (because both will act nervous when pressured). Plus, sometimes people just make posts that make you think they have a role. If anything, in the context of a discussion about why Koshi was killed, me revealing that I had a blue read on him is more likely to make me town than mafia. However, when I pointed that out to him, instead of thinking about the argument like you would expect from a townie trying to contribute, he instead mindlessly doubles down and tries to make it a blue hunting competition: + Show Spoiler + On September 12 2018 07:55 Rels wrote: you got lucky with your unlikely assumption being right or maybe you really caught him with his posts asking for advice during the night but that post is not a blueslip, and no VT would think it is However, at this point, he has justified his crappy vote. So at this point, I'm already not loving what he has done, but maybe his other contributions to the thread have something that redeems him? Day 1, he's trying not to get into arguments with anyone. Instead, his posts are either defenses of Vivax or him talking about various people he thinks are probably townie (sergio, rayn, koshi, and kelsier). As Meapak pointed out in post #349, he isn't taking sides with people who are arguing against each other, which is unusual. Instead, he thinks they're all town. Night 2, he only discusses modkills and a quick support for rayn. These look like the type of posts I'm expecting out of mafia. He's doing his very best to avoid any sort of controversy while at the same time not really contributing. Literally the only potentially redeeming things I can find in his filter at all are his defense of Vivax (which doesn't bring him under fire) and him being confused about Koshi flipping blue (but this is a mistake scum could easily make). I also like Meapak's point from post #349 that Rels lazily jumped on the bandwagon for Kaley, mostly in the spirit of "punishing poor town play." (Only excerpt copied below) + Show Spoiler + On September 12 2018 02:15 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: His reasoning for lynching Kaley is that he/she was hard to read? That's just lazy town play, not scumhunting. Killing someone for roleplaying is a super low percentage policy lynch move which is both apathetic and ineffective as it gives no real information. But it sure is an easy position for a scum to hop on and defend bc they wanted to "punish poor town play." But folks our goal is to catch mafia, not punish bad townplay. | ||
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On September 15 2018 04:15 raynpelikoneet wrote: qatol i still dont have the answer for why meapak's case on rels is good, you said that so please tell me why the case is good. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/536555-newbie-student-mafia-xxix?page=18#349 this is the case. why are the points good? for relevance for other people, nothing has changed since then. go, if you care about the town, go. Sorry, I write slowly. I'm trying not to mess up the TL spoiler and quote functions again too, which almost happened 3 or 4 different times in there. And you are slightly incorrect, his "bluehunting" posts were all made after that post. | ||
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On September 15 2018 04:56 Sergiovan wrote: So Qatol which of me/RoL/Prplhz is town? RoL. He's distracting the thread and trying to divide the vote for no good reason. He's also trying to downplay the urgency to focus votes, despite this being an inactive game involving people in wildly different time zones. Plus, as I mentioned earlier, the "voting" argument on rayn is just wrong and RoL should know better. | ||
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On September 15 2018 05:04 raynpelikoneet wrote: I can understand your first argument, especially since i do not think you are mafia. But i do not think it makes Rels mafia (your first paragraph). Second thing, yeah i think his argument is shit, it really is. But i can't really let it go, if i am being really honest you are the one that is arguing that "anyone should have been seeing Koshi was blue" when that is not really how it works. From my perspective, i do not think Koshi hinted blue, not any good player nowadays hints blue so that people can catch it (unless you are blazinghand lol). I do not know why Rels makes that argument, but i also do not know which is worse, him making the argument or "you enforcing it" when you never should in case you are town. What has Rels done, other than that, that is mafia-esque, other than is related to me (which i find really annoying)? If you wanna call me mafia, call me mafia, but i find a lot of your (and Meapak's) points out to be heavily related towards me. And i don't like people calling other people mafia because "someone else is mafia". Obviously i am not going to lynch myself or want to be lynched myself over Rels because it is LYLO, but please, can you just not make your case founded on something that the person themselves did? I fully know i dont have any say in if people want to lynch Rels or not since the people who "are listening to me" arent actually listening to me, and well, you have the rest. So i hope you are right then, i just think Kelsier is most likely mafia and i want to lynch him. I think I understand what you're saying. Again, it doesn't really matter whether Koshi actually hinted he was blue. I thought it was obvious (and I come from an era where people most definitely did leak that they were blue - read this game if you don't believe me). And even that isn't really the point. The point is that identifying posts as potentially indicating a blue after the fact is not scummy behavior. When pressed on that point, Rels decided to double down because it was his only contribution to the argument. As far as the remainder of the argument goes, it isn't so much that Rels supported you. It's that he supported a bunch of people while otherwise trying not to get in the way of anyone who would call him out. Yes, you were mentioned both times, but so what? So were Sergio, Koshi, Kelsier, and Vivax. The point is that he was trying to stay out of your way (and really out of the way of most of the active town). As far as your arguments towards Kelsier go, trust me, they are having an effect. Your arguments are the main reason I haven't completely written him off as a misguided, tunneling townie. I just have a stronger read on Rels (and RoL). I also happen to think that Rels is the most likely to get a townie majority. If Meapak shows up and Meapak and Sergio are willing to switch, I am perfectly happy to lynch RoL instead. Ideally, we could get prplhz to switch too. My preference would be to have 5 votes so, if they join the majority, mafia cannot switch off the majority at the last second. | ||
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On September 15 2018 05:19 Sergiovan wrote: But I have twenty minutes until I’m AFK so if we are gonna do it we have to do it now. Qatol? Let's do it. Rayn isn't supporting the Rels lynch and we need him. Here's hoping Meapak and prplhz show up in time to help. | ||
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On September 15 2018 05:07 Qatol wrote: RoL. He's distracting the thread and trying to divide the vote for no good reason. He's also trying to downplay the urgency to focus votes, despite this being an inactive game involving people in wildly different time zones. Plus, as I mentioned earlier, the "voting" argument on rayn is just wrong and RoL should know better. I just realized I exactly misread your post. I think RoL is mafia (not town). I think the second mafia is Rels. I think the last mafia is one of prplhz, KelsierSC, and you. I'm not going to worry about which one right now, as night kills and future posts can provide more clarity. | ||
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That I think Meapak is town and is likely to be perceived as town by the townies in the group of prplhz, kelsierSC, and Sergiovan. Sergio backing a RoL lynch helps things, but I really would like 5 votes. Because we're switching to RoL, I'm hoping Meapak and prplhz at a minimum will back this play. | ||
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On September 15 2018 05:41 raynpelikoneet wrote: can you still tell me which of Meapak's points on Rels were good Qatol? Two of them: 1. Meapak doesn't like that Rels decided that everyone in you, sergio, koshi, and kelsier were town, rather than backing one or two of you. I agree. It isn't how townies react to arguments. It's a way to avoid confrontation and keep yourself off the radar. 2. Meapak points out that Rels basically wants to lynch Kaley for playing in a way that is hard to read. I agree that this is about as flimsy of a reason as you can get to join a bandwagon. Rels doesn't even point out any arguments regarding Kaley that he thinks are persuasive. | ||
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On September 15 2018 05:44 prplhz wrote: When is deadline? Deadline is in just over 2 hours. | ||
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On September 15 2018 05:48 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am going to be 100% honest here Qatol. I do not know if you are either just very hard to understand because for me your answers do not answer the question i am asking, or if you are just mafia... I'm not sure what I'm not answering, but if you point it out, I'm happy to do so. We definitely have completely different posting styles, which can be a source of confusion. | ||
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On September 15 2018 06:01 raynpelikoneet wrote: 1) If rels thinks all of us are town then he does. Does meapak have a reason to suggest that is bullshit? because i don't see one. Okay, i can relate this to you: have you wanted to lynch rayn, sergio, koshi, kelsier? I dont even care if you had called any of those people scum at any point of the game, have you TRIED TO LYNCH THEM? Also once again, people having more than 2-3 town reads is not uncommon, i am pretty sure i had more than 3 town reads after D1. 2) I originally (when i voted for Kaley) wanted to lynch him for the exact same reason. Why does mafia!Rels just not say "i am sheeping rayn" or some other shit like that, unless ofc he is mafia with me (but you are not suggesting that afaik). Maybe you can, but i can't see any argument why Kaley should NOT EVER be lynched in this game D1. I stand by it, however it might may me look, and i am pretty sure if you wanna play a decent game of mafia you don't wanna shit like that in your game, ever. period. note that this is not why i even decided to vote for Kaley, i was being understanding, and gave him chances, he didnt took them. so fuck him. 1. It isn't the number of town reads that bothers me. The uncommon thing is that they were all arguing with each other. I just don't see town!rels not taking sides on that kind of thing. That screams fear to me. Considering he hasn't even tried to contribute other than the case on me, that screams mafia. 2. No, I definitely think Kaley could have been lynched D1. Otherwise, I wouldn't have voted the way I did. However, that isn't the argument Rels made. His argument was "this is hard to read and I don't want to bother." On September 15 2018 06:02 raynpelikoneet wrote: just read his case on me and tell me if you were me you would totally be on board with him... I obviously don't agree with his case on you. But here's the big thing: that doesn't matter. It doesn't even matter how you view each other. What matters is the town is at lylo and needs a majority on a scum. That means the townies need to vote for the same person, even if they don't trust each other. You can accuse each other later. Think of it this way: if the town gets a majority, this could be a way to force mafia!meapak to go along with it, making last second idiocy even less likely (because then he has to be at his computer right before the lynch to undo it). This doesn't mean you have to trust meapak. This is more about the town focusing on a single mafia member. | ||
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On September 15 2018 06:13 Sergiovan wrote: ## Unvote ## Vote Rels Qatol, Rayn and Prplhz follow me on this, we can lynch RoL tomorrow when we can get more people on him. A three man wagon is going to fail when scum all hammer vote at deadline we need to consolidate with the absent townies and that’s Kelsier and Meapak, Kelsier voting into Qatol so we have to follow Meapak. I will switch to rels if rayn or prplhz does. If they say they aren't switching, I think our best chance is for meapak to show up and have him switch. Otherwise, you're just splitting the vote. | ||
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On September 15 2018 06:24 raynpelikoneet wrote: so is anyone willing to join me? if not, be a fucking inactive or show balls and tell me why. thank you. Because he isn't the best odds for scum. Because you're losing your temper in a way that clearly hurts the town. Calm down please. | ||
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On September 15 2018 06:21 raynpelikoneet wrote: I don't like two things. 1) we were not all arguing with each other. Actually almost all of us were (except for Kelsier) each other's town reads. Feel free to prove me wrong. 2) i do not like how you call out a lynch like you do here. You did it at the start of D3, saying basically my vote on kelsier is stupid because i cant get him lynched anyways (that is entirely wrong). we put a wagon on RoL, that IS doable, regardless of if it is a mafia or town endorsed wagon. Why are you against people voting? 1) Sergio vs. Koshi + Show Spoiler + On September 08 2018 13:45 Sergiovan wrote: Koshi is sooooo scummy, am I totally pants-on-head retarded? I genuinely don’t understand how anyone can not be voting him right now, he says in post #99 that he has three town reads but he doesn’t ever reveal them, he isn’t contributing while spamming and pretending to have reads. Koshi = Scum. Vivax in post #119 says he didn’t read Kayly’s post from which he read her as town. Highly suspicious if Kaley = town that Vivax = scum. Vivax has made a town read based on something he didn’t even read. If that ‘read’ is correct it seems like it comes from alignment knowledge. I see that Kelsier has seen the same things in that post as I have. That makes Kelsier relatively townie irrespective of the alignments of Vivax and Kaley. Holyflare appears either pants-on-head-useless or mafia. Over 24 hours into the game and he appears just to place an awful vote with literally no reason. Hf: do you genuinely believe that Kaley is scum, if so why? People who know holyflare: is this behavior possible from a town HF? That is, is he bad enough to do nothing day one besides avoid a modkill but also be town aligned. Rayn: calm down, no matter how you feel about Kaley’s RP your behavior is negatively effecting the town atmosphere. If you are town think about it and get better. If you are scum listen to me and do that right thing anyway so I don’t have to read your shit stirring before I lynch you. If you are still present I would like to discuss Kaley and Koshi. Kaley is posting relatively coherently and has some reads in the thread which seem to indicate that she is involved in the thread as it progresses. Koshi is posting useless and meaningless trash. Explain your reads on both of them to me. Kelsier vs. Koshi + Show Spoiler + On September 08 2018 22:39 KelsierSC wrote: Yeh I don't understand calling you "pants on head retarded" after you made one post about kaley's rhymes. @vivax at any time you could have said it was just a bad read based on nothing but you defended your read and acted that kaley was pushing rayn with a valid reason. Honestly this weird thing where you have now come back and said it "wasnt a real read" and then Koshi saying just looks really weird and contrived between the two of you. I can't say you are both mafia but I think one of you definitely is. Kelsier vs. Sergio On September 08 2018 22:45 KelsierSC wrote: I'd only lynch sergio or vivax today. I think Koshi is very weird and gives me a bad feeling but not enough to lynch on. There's about 5 people who haven't posted so no idea what's going to happen with that but everyone else I sort of have reasons not to lynch. 2) What happened on day 3 is different. Rels jumping on a bandwagon is not the same as arguing about whether we should start one. If your argument is so strong, why is prplhz the only one who joined you? We need to coordinate votes, not split them up. That means finding someone people can agree on as mafia. If you look back at the start of Day 3, both you and Meapak had rels on your scum lists. Meapak didn't have Kelsier on his. Please explain to me why it makes sense to lynch kelsier? | ||
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Qatol
United States3165 Posts
On September 15 2018 06:30 raynpelikoneet wrote: Who is to say that? You? If i am completely honest i dont feel confident voting with you, which is why i dont find confident right now at all. I am 100% calm, me saying "fuck" or whatever words doesn't make me less competitive, ever. I am sorry though if it feels bad for someone. Why is Kelsier the best lynch, who is? If you don't feel confident voting with me, lynch me and lose. That's literally your choice. There's really only 4 situations: 1) town!Qatol, town!Kelsier You need a tiebreaker or 5 votes on someone who isn't me. In other words, you have to coordinate with me. 2) town!Qatol, mafia!Kelsier You need 4 votes on someone who isn't me. If you don't want to vote with me, pray that I vote alone on someone who doesn't have the tiebreaker. 3) mafia!Qatol, town!Kelsier I'm pretty sure you don't believe this one, but the answer is lynch me. 4) mafia!Qatol, mafia!Kelsier Do you really think this makes sense either? You still need to collect 3 votes on someone, and you need to worry about Meapak, Sergio, Rels, and RoL voting on a townie or not voting at all. Look, I am willing to coordinate votes with you, just not on Kelsier or Meapak. If you don't want to do that and you're town, it's game over. It's really that simple. | ||
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On September 15 2018 06:58 raynpelikoneet wrote: idgaf if you are town because i am not sure, as i am with prplhz, i am voting with him. so you dont even need me in case we are both town. so whatever, i dont care about this game anyways, it was never winnable in the first place. Actually, I do need you if you and prplhz are both town. Unless you think the mafia is going to be unable to force a scum lynch when the town majority is 3. | ||
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On September 15 2018 07:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: that's not true, and i don't care if i am lynched, i just care about if i was right or not. Then who is your scumlist? Kelsier, RoL, some combination of me/meapak/rels? | ||
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On September 15 2018 07:06 Rels wrote: I hate how lectury you've been all game. Reeks of scum. Qatol / MZ / ??? I wouldn't be if people would read or realize some of this stuff on their own. Instead, if you haven't noticed, even despite this post, we have a completely split up vote. And why does it reek of scum? Please share. Is anything there wrong? Is anything there anti-town? | ||
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On September 15 2018 07:43 Rels wrote: Qatol / KSC / MZ kinda weird given KSC's attack on Qatol at some point. But possible And there's the nail in the coffin. This is incredibly unlikely. And you just talked about how suspicious you were about RoL. Thanks for making me feel better about my vote. | ||
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On September 15 2018 07:50 Rels wrote: it's incredible how everything you write is so obviously following a certain plan yet nobody seems to remark it. Except Koshi at some point Koshi said I'm too friendly and deconstructed one of my posts. That's it. At least get your story straight if you're going to make comments like this. | ||
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On September 15 2018 07:53 Rels wrote: haha how can anyone else not see how suspicious these side remarks are is beyond me Because you're pushing a tired, misleading narrative that has been pushed at least since the beginning of day 2? | ||
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On September 15 2018 14:01 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: huh Well my bad rayn, guess I should have decided to go full sheep on vivax. I guess the team really was Kels/Qatol and then prplhz or RoL. No bad feelings Rayn. Not quite. I'm clearly pretty bad at this.  It's probably something like Kelsier/RoL and then prplhz or Sergio. I even knew something was probably up when RoL sheeped me onto Rels; I just questioned whether I was wrong for too long. Sorry for not following your read, rayn. | ||
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On September 16 2018 09:10 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: yeah. Sorry for inactivty. I assume you are the one that prompted Ver to text me? I straight up didn't know the game was going on most of the time. When I showed up town was kind of already in shambles. Day 3 the two main people up weren't even mafia. Yeah, I thought he might get your attention. My read on rayn was flat out wrong (well done rayn), and I spent way too much time defending myself instead of scumhunting. I'm glad to hear my read on Kelsier was right at least. It is super disappointing that pretty much every single townie in the game suspected me so heavily (which I'll admit was almost certainly my fault). I'm still not even sure what I did wrong on that front. If anyone has a guess, please tell me; I would honestly like to know. | ||
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On September 16 2018 09:53 Sergiovan wrote: GG guys! This game was a real pleasure for me, I haven’t played Mafia in about five years as I said before the start of the game and getting to play with TL veterans like Qatol and RoL who I had never never had the chance to play with before. I was looking forward to Scum hunting but it was quite fun to just shit things up with Rayn instead. A few thoughts: above all I’m sad that’s TL has devolved so far that having four AFKs in a mini is possible. I never loved the 30 player games but I’m glad they were an option and our minis used to have so many people ready to replace in, what happened? I don’t know if anyone noticed but I bread crumbed DT d1 as well as checks on Koshi n1 and Qatol n2 I was saving that to create a big WIFOM mess if and when I was lynched. That ‘check’ is also why I had a hard town read on Qatol d3 that inexplicably I was never questioned on. I still do not understand the d1 Kaley lynch. Can anyone explain why they thought that was a good idea? She was actively participating in the game and had reads (admittedly bad ones with bad reasoning but she was playing and looked pretty townie I thought) The d2 lynch was equally disorganized and ended up as poorly as d1. Damdred looked like a fine lynch to me but the town needed to organize better around making us actually commit to something. There was never a lynch where we felt pressure as to where to put our votes. The inactive players really screwed town over here by allowing the scum team to be everywhere. D3 Rayn and I really took control of the thread and I feel bad for Qatol trying to figure out what was happening while Rayn and I created a mess in his head. I quite enjoyed our play towards RoL just in case our night kill didn’t go through for some reason. N3 we shot Prplhz and roleblocked him to ensure if he was vet he couldn’t keep himself alive. None of town had hard town reads on him so I figured if there was a doc we would be safe with our shot on Prplhz. Koshi: I mentioned this in the mafia qt but your vigi shot was very poor, in a game like this you needed to vig an inactive. I’m told Holyflare is now quite good as town so bogging him night one is a high risk low reward play. Qatol: I really enjoyed playing with you, you were clearly trying to figure things out to the very end. You were excellent. Kita has been trying to figure out the name I played under in the past on TL. I welcome you all to join in that particular game, I’m happy to answer questions. Thanks! I enjoyed playing with you too, even if I was obviously absolutely outplayed. Why did you shoot Koshi n1? At least for me, the d1 Kaley lynch was that she refused to explain anything. She accused rayn and me and didn't explain why, even after being pressed repeatedly. Instead, she insisted on doing that rapping and summary stuff and then devolved into a flamewar with rayn. I didn't see it helping the town and I felt like it was hurting the atmosphere. I'll admit that some of it was also the flamewar, which I saw Kaley as starting. I'm very uncomfortable when the thread gets like that. I really do think it's extremely sad that being nice is a reason to scumread someone. | ||
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On September 16 2018 14:45 kitaman27 wrote: I shall succeed......eventually. I'll guess Promethelax. I think most players should have had a solid town read on you by day three considering your clear efforts to coordinate the town votes. I noticed that you tend to ask a lot of questions in your posts, which is fine to drive discussion especially in a low activity game, but I think there were cases where your questions may have put certain townies on the defensive. When players are put in a position to explain themselves it has the potential to rub them the wrong way and make them feel threatened if they feel that you're misrepresenting them. Perhaps posts like these could have benefited from a more neutral line of questioning or better suited as a conclusion to share with the rest of the thread instead of further questioning. + Show Spoiler + On September 11 2018 03:13 Qatol wrote: So you asked me to do that post just for giggles? Why ask for a post and then not discuss anything in it other than its length? On September 11 2018 23:41 Qatol wrote: What the heck is this? This looks like you restated post #286, except you don't identify the posts where Koshi hinted he had a role (posts 76, 246, and 252). Why is HolyFlare a good N1 medic target? Koshi was sumreading HF really hard. In fact, Koshi thought HF was scummy enough to use a vigi shot on him. Shouldn't that mean "do not shoot HF at all costs?" On September 12 2018 07:50 Qatol wrote: Or because I was reading the thread? I still don't see how you don't see it. This isn't rocket science. On a separate topic, there were a bunch of people that weren't aware the game had started and ended up missing day one completely. I know signups tend to drag on recently, but people really need to get into the habit of checking the thread every couple of days after they sign up. I probably should have sent out confirmation PMs first, but with signups taking two and a half weeks I was afraid that the game would fall apart if we waited any longer to start. As far as activity, I don't think a 50 page game is really a problem as long as everyone is reading the thread a couple times a cycle, but there were a few players who didn't really meet the bare minimum effort. I know it's sometimes unavoidable when real life kicks in, but hopefully people can make sure it doesn't become a habit when they sign up. I think rayn had a really strong game pushing the mafia agenda while looking townie in the process. The fact that several townies are apologizing to rayn after a mislynch says a lot. The interaction with Meapak seemed a bit overboard and the name calling isn't really necessary, but otherwise the play was really solid. Town was so spread out with their votes that mafia could really easily pick whatever inactives they wanted for the lynch. Serg played a nice side kick role by never really saying anything that would draw attention to him, but still doing enough to split the thread and distance himself from his buddies. I think the only way he ever would have been nailed was by process of elimination. There was one point where I thought mafia might be starting to throw where the idea of a RoL lynch was suggested, but you guys quickly recovered after that. Serg disappearing from the thread afterwards was especially nice since it limited town's options by having them think that your vote was locked in. Understood. Thanks for pointing that out. I definitely lost my composure at various times, especially during day 2. It felt like people weren't reading what I was writing and/or causing me to spend a lot of time writing for no reason and I let it get to me. I apologized to Kelsier right after that (and I meant it), but I also want to apologize to rels and prplhz. I shouldn't have acted like that. If there's anyone else I missed, I apologize to you as well. The game would have taken absolutely forever to get started if you tried to wait for confirmation PMs. My only advice on that front is I wouldn't have started the game on a Thursday night/Friday morning (depending on time zones). Notice that everyone except RoL showed up the following Monday. I agree; rayn played great, but I wasn't a fan of the name calling either. This might just be a conflict of cultures though; I'm not used to people posting like that in mafia threads. Back when I played actively, the hosts were pretty strict on that kind of thing, so the argument between rayn and Kaley was a bit of a shock. I'm not sure I would have been as engaged in the game if Kaley hadn't been lynched, stopping that argument. However, to rayn's credit, posting like that did make me not want to take a position against him pretty much ever. Sergio did a good job too, though I think we probably would have caught him eventually through process of elimination. He was on a couple of lists for exactly that reason. I didn't catch his DT breadcrumbs, but that's partially because I never really believed there would be anything other than a veteran (who, ironically, I thought would be rayn because he didn't seem worried about dying at night) after we had a vigi flip night 1. Too few players for a medic or especially for a DT. You're absolutely right about him disappearing when he did being a stroke of genius. As far as I was concerned, as soon as he disappeared, the votes were locked in. It didn't hurt that Meapak actually disappeared to give further weight to that. | ||
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On September 17 2018 03:48 Holyflare wrote: Kaley is a new person. I also agree with them but take note that they also contributed heavily to the toxicity on day 1. I would have loved to play in this game but would have probably tried to lynch Qatol day 2. The reason I, and likely many others, scum read you is because you made too many assumptions that to me looked like TMI. When prplhz asked why Koshi was shot and you said it was obviously because he was blue and here were his crumbs it looked really off. The same with how you treated the damdred lynch, providing no proper case or alternative and then berating (not negatively) for an afk lynch. I think that's a fault on my part mostly though because if I thought a little deeper Koshi wasn't shot because he was obviously blue. I figured that out after the Vivax rb claim and death (which I also thought made Vivax mafia). The fact they didn't rb Koshi meant he was just a kill like any other. Since he wasn't playing great at all then it was far more likely to be a rayn night kill or possibly rels/kelsier than any other. Thanks! I'll keep this in mind if I ever find the time to play again. One thing to point out: if they read Koshi as specifically vigi, the correct move is not to rb him because it was pretty clear you were his #1 scum read. Letting the vigi hit through on a townie speeds up lylo by one day, unless a night hit gets blocked. | ||
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