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On March 11 2018 20:50 MoosyDoosy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2018 20:39 rsoultin wrote:On March 11 2018 20:33 MoosyDoosy wrote:On March 11 2018 20:31 rsoultin wrote:On March 11 2018 20:29 MoosyDoosy wrote:On March 11 2018 20:25 rsoultin wrote:On March 11 2018 20:19 MoosyDoosy wrote:On March 11 2018 08:18 MoosyDoosy wrote:On March 11 2018 08:11 n00bKing wrote:By the way, Moosy, I've seen you play both allegiances before, and this right here: On March 11 2018 06:31 MoosyDoosy wrote:
Also let's calm down with the insults and flinging dirt at each other people. Its just a gaem at the end of the day whether people dont play optimally or not. is NOT what I remember from Town Moosy. No one flings dirt and insults like Town Moosy. This "can't we all just get along?" stuff is NOT your Town meta. So I can add a meta read against you to the association case against you. That's because I'm r e f o r m e d dude. After thinking about all the times I got mad during this game I've decided it's not worth it. It's also why I'm trying to troll a little less because people got mad over it and I don't want to ruin people's days that way. It sucks to try and play the game and have to deal with someone's shit. @rsoultin why i changed from trolling Nh. I don't know why I asked that question anyway @.@ I can't verify why you change something. It's just that you said that you caught scum by people piling on you D1 for trolling. So I don't know why you'd change that. And if it's an active thing you were doing, which you're not doing now, why would you expect people scumreading you? I think you just explained why. Ofc its going to feel weird changing metas and seeing everything be different...but that doesnt mean its not going to feel weird. So ofc it felt weird. But again, its meta so I really do think its pointless to discuss this. What? I really do want an answer. If this method worked for you in the past, why change it? And why expect people to keep scumreading you if you weren't actively trolling to try to get scum to push you? ? I just explained these 2 questions. You can say that you changed because it made people angry, and that answers the first question (not entirely satisfactorily for me, but whatever, it certainly can still be true). Stating that you're used to rayn people jumping up your ass though doesn't match up with why you said you trolled before...though tbf that was years ago. Before you said you were doing it to trap scum by luring them into pushing you. Like this was an active strategy of yours. Wasn't it? Were you lying in that town game? This is getting into really pointless details imo. But it went something like this: I tried to play mafia normally -> got hard scum read by geript -> feelsbadman -> played in a game with rayn -> got hard scumread by him and brutally tunneled -> feelsbadman -> saw either glowingbear or alakaslam play (i dont remember which) -> was like hey they're acting crazy to get reactions this looks fun -> played another game with rayn -> he scumreads me again -> hey this looks like a good time to troll -> trolls -> was a lot of fun actually -> get a game without rayn -> hey maybe i can try trolling this game from the start rather than as a reaction -> commence trolling d1 -> post game realize that mafia lined up on my wagon nicely -> hey this can be a legit strat -> in future games with rayn or someone I find equally obnoxious use trolling as a defense mechanism -> use trolling in games without rayn as a legitimate tactic -> fast forward 2 years -> feels bad that i made a lot of ppl hate playing the game becuz of me -> decide to not troll
good read
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On March 11 2018 20:52 MoosyDoosy wrote:
Where are you trying to go with this rsoultin?
I'm just trying to figure out a contradiction after reading old threads to figure out who the scum is, Moosy. That should be pretty clear. I'm not 'trying to go' anywhere with questions.
And, to be frank, I kind of want scum to be not HF. Because if he's scum I think town's chances of winning plummet @.@ I'm also really unhappy with how uncertain I am on things right now.
But yeah, thanks for answering. That makes sense and I appreciate the indulgence.
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On March 11 2018 20:54 MoosyDoosy wrote:
This reminds me of the game where I was VT, hard defended mafia noobking from the whole thread, told ruxxar to kill himself, and got modkilled. Except im not the one defending noobking this time
Is there a specific reason this reminds you of that...i.e. a way in particular that he's playing...or is it just that you did it once and you were wrong?
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On March 11 2018 20:47 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2018 20:44 n00bKing wrote:On March 11 2018 20:35 rsoultin wrote:On March 11 2018 20:32 n00bKing wrote:On March 11 2018 20:19 Holyflare wrote:
It also DOES change my read on df. If DF is town then I fully believe mafia would think I'm healing him and waste their medic heal on him as a chance to get two night kills. If DF is a town medic then they think I'm also a town medic and instead of wasting their NK on DF for guaranteed medic kills they use their NK on AMG and try and get two kills in one since that's their only option.
If I did not say that I was healing df and he was a town medic then they nk him and we're down a medic for later in the game with no other nk info and we're still in the same mass claim situation with a mafia fake claiming. There's no way for you to know whether "they think you're also a town medic" in that scenario. But that doesn't even matter. There's nothing stopping them from just killing DF if that's what they want to do. "That's their only option?" No it's not. If DF is a true town medic, then even if they believe you are one too, but aren't sure whether you're telling the truth about healing him, they can just RB you and kill him anyway. There's no way for your fake claim to keep them from killing any player they want (including the revealed medic), and there was no way for their roles to keep US from killing whoever WE want. Two kills for the price of one is attractive, noob. It means a quicker end. I'd take that risk as scum. Lotta room between what you would choose to do, and saying "it was their only option." If DF is town and they wanted to make sure he died, they could have. But if HF is on that scum team, then making DF the night-kill undoes all of HF's work to get him lynched and hurts his credibility to boot. On March 11 2018 20:35 rsoultin wrote:
What makes it impossible for what hf is saying to be true? It isn't "impossible" or I would be saying he's dead-lock caught scum. But if you want to know why I don't believe him, you only need to go look at the case I posted against him again. Fair, I just don't think that quibbling over terminology is helpful. Either in clarifying a read or pushing your target. Which is perhaps hypocritical cause I have the same problem myself, just saying. Don't think this argument is going anywhere.
Sometimes terminology matters, sometimes it doesn't. I've definitely seen scum before that would speak in "absolutes" that really weren't, and notice it as a pattern of those players' scum games. Holyflare isn't one of those players, so I don't know for sure. But it's at least something that town *ideally* would not do. And saying that scum could not have killed a town DF is as objectively false as when he tried to tell me that I moved off of Tubesock while he was the leading wagon. It's just not true, and it looks like "lazy scum" to me. (An investigative town player can at least read a damn vote count. Lazy scum may not bother.) Then he talks about Vivax being the first medic claim and me being the last, like as if there's anything remotely alignment-indicative about it. He's smarter than that, right? So why is it still getting posted? Looks like lazy scum to me. Where are his salient posts about why Koshi is scum, instead of just saying "he replaced in and posted mechanics. Cool. He's mafia." I'll say this much, though: If HF is scum, then you'll definitely be right that "this argument isn't going anywhere."
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On March 11 2018 19:42 MoosyDoosy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2018 15:32 n00bKing wrote:On March 11 2018 10:04 MoosyDoosy wrote:
Is there anything anyone wants me to look into? I've shared all my thoughts so I'm down with answering questions people have on my reads. Yeah, I have a question about your reads. Who is the VT scum? The other vanilla claims are: Slam, HF, rsoul and Koshi. Who should get shot tonight? I don't feel like you're interacting with any of them like as if they are scumreads. Does your own PoE tell you that the VT scummer is you?  Slam rsoul and holy are likely town. Im not voting slam probs ever because I want to townread him and this looks like town Slam anyway. Rsoul is likely town because you're pocketing her and other stuff. Holy could be mafia but his thought process lines with mine so I doubt hes scum. So koshi would be my vote here. There is tinfoil where maybe rsoul is pocketing you and her goddawful tunnel on town hf and bad townread on prpl or hf is mafia pocketing me but meh.
HF pocketing you isn't "tinfoil." After all your talk about rsoul's "goddawful tunnel" on him, then if you're the town player, it means you're so deep in his pocket you probably just live there now.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
On March 11 2018 21:07 n00bKing wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2018 20:47 rsoultin wrote:On March 11 2018 20:44 n00bKing wrote:On March 11 2018 20:35 rsoultin wrote:On March 11 2018 20:32 n00bKing wrote:On March 11 2018 20:19 Holyflare wrote:
It also DOES change my read on df. If DF is town then I fully believe mafia would think I'm healing him and waste their medic heal on him as a chance to get two night kills. If DF is a town medic then they think I'm also a town medic and instead of wasting their NK on DF for guaranteed medic kills they use their NK on AMG and try and get two kills in one since that's their only option.
If I did not say that I was healing df and he was a town medic then they nk him and we're down a medic for later in the game with no other nk info and we're still in the same mass claim situation with a mafia fake claiming. There's no way for you to know whether "they think you're also a town medic" in that scenario. But that doesn't even matter. There's nothing stopping them from just killing DF if that's what they want to do. "That's their only option?" No it's not. If DF is a true town medic, then even if they believe you are one too, but aren't sure whether you're telling the truth about healing him, they can just RB you and kill him anyway. There's no way for your fake claim to keep them from killing any player they want (including the revealed medic), and there was no way for their roles to keep US from killing whoever WE want. Two kills for the price of one is attractive, noob. It means a quicker end. I'd take that risk as scum. Lotta room between what you would choose to do, and saying "it was their only option." If DF is town and they wanted to make sure he died, they could have. But if HF is on that scum team, then making DF the night-kill undoes all of HF's work to get him lynched and hurts his credibility to boot. On March 11 2018 20:35 rsoultin wrote:
What makes it impossible for what hf is saying to be true? It isn't "impossible" or I would be saying he's dead-lock caught scum. But if you want to know why I don't believe him, you only need to go look at the case I posted against him again. Fair, I just don't think that quibbling over terminology is helpful. Either in clarifying a read or pushing your target. Which is perhaps hypocritical cause I have the same problem myself, just saying. Don't think this argument is going anywhere. Sometimes terminology matters, sometimes it doesn't. I've definitely seen scum before that would speak in "absolutes" that really weren't, and notice it as a pattern of those players' scum games. Holyflare isn't one of those players, so I don't know for sure. But it's at least something that town *ideally* would not do. And saying that scum could not have killed a town DF is as objectively false as when he tried to tell me that I moved off of Tubesock while he was the leading wagon. It's just not true, and it looks like "lazy scum" to me. (An investigative town player can at least read a damn vote count. Lazy scum may not bother.) Then he talks about Vivax being the first medic claim and me being the last, like as if there's anything remotely alignment-indicative about it. He's smarter than that, right? So why is it still getting posted? Looks like lazy scum to me. Where are his salient posts about why Koshi is scum, instead of just saying "he replaced in and posted mechanics. Cool. He's mafia." I'll say this much, though: If HF is scum, then you'll definitely be right that "this argument isn't going anywhere."
This is the exact same argument you made for DF being town on d1 but now it makes me mafia. How do you pick and choose when lazy posts become alignment indicative?
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On March 11 2018 21:14 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2018 21:07 n00bKing wrote:On March 11 2018 20:47 rsoultin wrote:On March 11 2018 20:44 n00bKing wrote:On March 11 2018 20:35 rsoultin wrote:On March 11 2018 20:32 n00bKing wrote:On March 11 2018 20:19 Holyflare wrote:
It also DOES change my read on df. If DF is town then I fully believe mafia would think I'm healing him and waste their medic heal on him as a chance to get two night kills. If DF is a town medic then they think I'm also a town medic and instead of wasting their NK on DF for guaranteed medic kills they use their NK on AMG and try and get two kills in one since that's their only option.
If I did not say that I was healing df and he was a town medic then they nk him and we're down a medic for later in the game with no other nk info and we're still in the same mass claim situation with a mafia fake claiming. There's no way for you to know whether "they think you're also a town medic" in that scenario. But that doesn't even matter. There's nothing stopping them from just killing DF if that's what they want to do. "That's their only option?" No it's not. If DF is a true town medic, then even if they believe you are one too, but aren't sure whether you're telling the truth about healing him, they can just RB you and kill him anyway. There's no way for your fake claim to keep them from killing any player they want (including the revealed medic), and there was no way for their roles to keep US from killing whoever WE want. Two kills for the price of one is attractive, noob. It means a quicker end. I'd take that risk as scum. Lotta room between what you would choose to do, and saying "it was their only option." If DF is town and they wanted to make sure he died, they could have. But if HF is on that scum team, then making DF the night-kill undoes all of HF's work to get him lynched and hurts his credibility to boot. On March 11 2018 20:35 rsoultin wrote:
What makes it impossible for what hf is saying to be true? It isn't "impossible" or I would be saying he's dead-lock caught scum. But if you want to know why I don't believe him, you only need to go look at the case I posted against him again. Fair, I just don't think that quibbling over terminology is helpful. Either in clarifying a read or pushing your target. Which is perhaps hypocritical cause I have the same problem myself, just saying. Don't think this argument is going anywhere. Sometimes terminology matters, sometimes it doesn't. I've definitely seen scum before that would speak in "absolutes" that really weren't, and notice it as a pattern of those players' scum games. Holyflare isn't one of those players, so I don't know for sure. But it's at least something that town *ideally* would not do. And saying that scum could not have killed a town DF is as objectively false as when he tried to tell me that I moved off of Tubesock while he was the leading wagon. It's just not true, and it looks like "lazy scum" to me. (An investigative town player can at least read a damn vote count. Lazy scum may not bother.) Then he talks about Vivax being the first medic claim and me being the last, like as if there's anything remotely alignment-indicative about it. He's smarter than that, right? So why is it still getting posted? Looks like lazy scum to me. Where are his salient posts about why Koshi is scum, instead of just saying "he replaced in and posted mechanics. Cool. He's mafia." I'll say this much, though: If HF is scum, then you'll definitely be right that "this argument isn't going anywhere." This is the exact same argument you made for DF being town on d1 but now it makes me mafia. How do you pick and choose when lazy posts become alignment indicative?
Been explained already. I had no reason to expect better from him. I had no reason to think "he's smarter than this, right?" Once he touted himself as a strong town player, I admitted he probably should have been lynched D1 for being so far off his game. Are you far off your game, for being so anti-town in this game? If not, why do you act like you think people should ever listen to you?
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
I am anti town every game.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
Not that I even am this game to be honest. I've correctly played at every turn
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
I also think claiming first is entirely relevant because mafia have to plan ahead for a fake claim and mass claims weren't certain they were happening. SO, yeah, I do put weight into that.
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It's also not "the exact same argument" or anything close to it. He repeated himself and repeated the opinions of other players. That's not the same as you saying things that are objectively false, and you presenting things as significant to your reads that are 100% NAI.
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Yeah, he does have a tendency to speak in absolutes as town that at the very least are misleading if not outright incorrect the way he says them.
Also Vivax was the third medic claim, if we're being technical. I don't know how that affects HF's reads if that's what he's using to make them, but df had already hard-claimed and ff had already soft-claimed well before the mass claim. I don't know why scum would necessarily have to claim last, either. I could make an argument for why they'd like to claim before all the claims come out, but whatever. It's WIFOM to me.
Idk. I've got not so great reasons to think the other three could be town, and I don't want a scum HF to win, but I also just had myself thoroughly convinced in obs that he was scum when he wasn't for hard scum-siding. Including shouting out that a blue was a blue (not that directly, but hardly subtle just the same) during the night and saying that confirmed him the next day because the blue claim wasn't dead @.@
Slam - tone, historically not great at reading him though
Koshi - idk why scum keeps pushing the slow, better for town play here, and I don't fundamentally disagree with his tinfoil, and also scumreading hf/viva is hardly good for him if he's interested in survival
Moosy - mostly feels, and the points against him are invalid in my eyes
So yeah, not great reasons to think the others could be town ><
Plus I've been pretty wrong this game so far. So there's that.
Anyway the likelihood that even if I were 100% convinced hf is scum here we could get the medic vig shot on him is pretty damn low, so maybe the best bet really is to just hope I'm wrong on koshi since it looks like that's how this is going to go anyway.
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On March 11 2018 21:20 Holyflare wrote:
I also think claiming first is entirely relevant because mafia have to plan ahead for a fake claim and mass claims weren't certain they were happening. SO, yeah, I do put weight into that.
If I ever see you say this in a game where you're town, I'll be very, very surprised. Because trying to analyze the order of the claims in a mass claim is PURELY a Fool's Errand. And you didn't try to argue against it when I said essentially the same thing earlier.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
I literally give no shits.
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On March 11 2018 21:25 rsoultin wrote:
Anyway the likelihood that even if I were 100% convinced hf is scum here we could get the medic vig shot on him is pretty damn low, so maybe the best bet really is to just hope I'm wrong on koshi since it looks like that's how this is going to go anyway.
DF said he was townreading the Damdred/Koshi slot, and his last post in the thread mentioned making HF the heal target. I guess we'll see what he says when he returns.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
I believe it to be entirely relevant who claims what at what time based on their previous history of playing with me. If you say it's a fool's errand then that's your prerogative. I choose to believe it's at least somewhat relevant (obviously not the be all and end all).
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
It seems you're well into arguing semantics with me and about 0 reasons why I'm actually mafia.
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On March 11 2018 21:29 n00bKing wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2018 21:25 rsoultin wrote:
Anyway the likelihood that even if I were 100% convinced hf is scum here we could get the medic vig shot on him is pretty damn low, so maybe the best bet really is to just hope I'm wrong on koshi since it looks like that's how this is going to go anyway. DF said he was townreading the Damdred/Koshi slot, and his last post in the thread mentioned making HF the heal target. I guess we'll see what he says when he returns.
o.0 Did I miss that? I thought he was targeting slam?
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On March 11 2018 21:30 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2018 21:29 n00bKing wrote:On March 11 2018 21:25 rsoultin wrote:
Anyway the likelihood that even if I were 100% convinced hf is scum here we could get the medic vig shot on him is pretty damn low, so maybe the best bet really is to just hope I'm wrong on koshi since it looks like that's how this is going to go anyway. DF said he was townreading the Damdred/Koshi slot, and his last post in the thread mentioned making HF the heal target. I guess we'll see what he says when he returns. o.0 Did I miss that? I thought he was targeting slam?
He'd said earlier that he would be "fine" healing Slam. But his last post was about healing HF. So I don't know, like I say, we'll just see what he has to say.
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On March 11 2018 21:30 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2018 21:29 n00bKing wrote:On March 11 2018 21:25 rsoultin wrote:
Anyway the likelihood that even if I were 100% convinced hf is scum here we could get the medic vig shot on him is pretty damn low, so maybe the best bet really is to just hope I'm wrong on koshi since it looks like that's how this is going to go anyway. DF said he was townreading the Damdred/Koshi slot, and his last post in the thread mentioned making HF the heal target. I guess we'll see what he says when he returns. o.0 Did I miss that? I thought he was targeting slam?
Yeah, he's targeting slam. He just said he could target HF if he wanted to be Nk'd because there is no way scum is doing it lol ><
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EPT
