EPT[M][N] Medic Mafia - Page 67
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Vivax
22197 Posts
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
On March 11 2018 20:17 Vivax wrote: Why am I doing what only, I want? FF posted that he's cool with healing Koshi, I'm cool with healing Koshi as well. So we can healkill Koshi both and Noobking and df can claim to be doing whatever. If Koshi flips scum that also clears me and FF and the next days one of Noobking or DF flips mafia, or one of them claims to have healed Koshi as well and we lynch him. I'm going to heal Koshi, now to wait what the other medic claims claim to be doing. Because two people is hardly a majority? But whatever. You guys can be right and I can be wrong again. Lex is off for the first time in ages, so if this is how we're going to play the nk's rather than discuss and collaborate (or only within the medics discuss and collaborate) then I guess I'm superfluous. I'll find something better to do. | ||
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
Nh. I don't know why I asked that question anyway @.@ I can't verify why you change something. It's just that you said that you caught scum by people piling on you D1 for trolling. So I don't know why you'd change that. And if it's an active thing you were doing, which you're not doing now, why would you expect people scumreading you? | ||
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
On March 11 2018 20:19 Holyflare wrote: It also DOES change my read on df. If DF is town then I fully believe mafia would think I'm healing him and waste their medic heal on him as a chance to get two night kills. If DF is a town medic then they think I'm also a town medic and instead of wasting their NK on DF for guaranteed medic kills they use their NK on AMG and try and get two kills in one since that's their only option. If I did not say that I was healing df and he was a town medic then they nk him and we're down a medic for later in the game with no other nk info and we're still in the same mass claim situation with a mafia fake claiming. This is a pretty fair point. I mean, it could also be an excuse as to why df didn't die, but I don't see why scum wouldn't want to kill a claimed medic. | ||
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MoosyDoosy
United States4519 Posts
On March 11 2018 20:25 rsoultin wrote: Nh. I don't know why I asked that question anyway @.@ I can't verify why you change something. It's just that you said that you caught scum by people piling on you D1 for trolling. So I don't know why you'd change that. And if it's an active thing you were doing, which you're not doing now, why would you expect people scumreading you? I think you just explained why. Ofc its going to feel weird changing metas and seeing everything be different...but that doesnt mean its not going to feel weird. So ofc it felt weird. But again, its meta so I really do think its pointless to discuss this. | ||
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
On March 11 2018 20:27 rsoultin wrote: This is a pretty fair point. I mean, it could also be an excuse as to why df didn't die, but I don't see why scum wouldn't want to kill a claimed medic. Let me just add, I don't see why they wouldn't want to kill a claimed medic while knowing that their rb'er was dying. I still find the AMG nk odd, though. He literally wasn't pushing anything but prp, and prp was dying anyway. | ||
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
On March 11 2018 20:29 MoosyDoosy wrote: I think you just explained why. Ofc its going to feel weird changing metas and seeing everything be different...but that doesnt mean its not going to feel weird. So ofc it felt weird. But again, its meta so I really do think its pointless to discuss this. What? I really do want an answer. If this method worked for you in the past, why change it? And why expect people to keep scumreading you if you weren't actively trolling to try to get scum to push you? | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 11 2018 20:19 Holyflare wrote: It also DOES change my read on df. If DF is town then I fully believe mafia would think I'm healing him and waste their medic heal on him as a chance to get two night kills. If DF is a town medic then they think I'm also a town medic and instead of wasting their NK on DF for guaranteed medic kills they use their NK on AMG and try and get two kills in one since that's their only option. If I did not say that I was healing df and he was a town medic then they nk him and we're down a medic for later in the game with no other nk info and we're still in the same mass claim situation with a mafia fake claiming. There's no way for you to know whether "they think you're also a town medic" in that scenario. But that doesn't even matter. There's nothing stopping them from just killing DF if that's what they want to do. "That's their only option?" No it's not. If DF is a true town medic, then even if they believe you are one too, but aren't sure whether you're telling the truth about healing him, they can just RB you and kill him anyway. There's no way for your fake claim to keep them from killing any player they want (including the revealed medic), and there was no way for their roles to keep US from killing whoever WE want. | ||
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MoosyDoosy
United States4519 Posts
On March 11 2018 20:31 rsoultin wrote: What? I really do want an answer. If this method worked for you in the past, why change it? And why expect people to keep scumreading you if you weren't actively trolling to try to get scum to push you? ? I just explained these 2 questions. | ||
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
On March 11 2018 20:32 n00bKing wrote: There's no way for you to know whether "they think you're also a town medic" in that scenario. But that doesn't even matter. There's nothing stopping them from just killing DF if that's what they want to do. "That's their only option?" No it's not. If DF is a true town medic, then even if they believe you are one too, but aren't sure whether you're telling the truth about healing him, they can just RB you and kill him anyway. There's no way for your fake claim to keep them from killing any player they want (including the revealed medic), and there was no way for their roles to keep US from killing whoever WE want. Two kills for the price of one is attractive, noob. It means a quicker end. I'd take that risk as scum. What makes it impossible for what hf is saying to be true? | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30775 Posts
On March 11 2018 20:32 n00bKing wrote: There's no way for you to know whether "they think you're also a town medic" in that scenario. But that doesn't even matter. There's nothing stopping them from just killing DF if that's what they want to do. "That's their only option?" No it's not. If DF is a true town medic, then even if they believe you are one too, but aren't sure whether you're telling the truth about healing him, they can just RB you and kill him anyway. There's no way for your fake claim to keep them from killing any player they want (including the revealed medic), and there was no way for their roles to keep US from killing whoever WE want. Not true. Mafia are a man down and absolutely have to play catch up to prevent them being in this super amazing mass claim bs spot. Mafia have to kill two people to even be within a chance of getting back in the game. It's really optimal to try and bait out the heal and stack and nk another player than it is to just use a nk on a medic and get one kill. Killing a medic and fake claiming after also narrows down the pool further when the mass claim happens to it being a 1/3 chance the player is mafia instead of 1/4. Trying to stack and killing someone else is by far the most optimal nk. Killing AMG (no offense to AMG, he played very well and was easily town read imo) also shows that they were afraid that one of the top town players were going to be medic saved so in no way, shape or form were they expecting everyone to stack on prplhz since AMG is a fear kill. Shooting AMG gets an almost guaranteed kill and imo shows to me that their mindset was very much get as many kills as feasibly possible. The fact that not one of rsoul/vivax/df/hf died proves to me that df is not likely to be mafia over any other of the kills since if df was mafia I'd heavily expect them to nk into one of the other three. | ||
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
You can say that you changed because it made people angry, and that answers the first question (not entirely satisfactorily for me, but whatever, it certainly can still be true). Stating that you're used to rayn people jumping up your ass though doesn't match up with why you said you trolled before...though tbf that was years ago. Before you said you were doing it to trap scum by luring them into pushing you. Like this was an active strategy of yours. Wasn't it? Were you lying in that town game? | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On March 11 2018 20:35 rsoultin wrote: Two kills for the price of one is attractive, noob. It means a quicker end. I'd take that risk as scum. Lotta room between what you would choose to do, and saying "it was their only option." If DF is town and they wanted to make sure he died, they could have. But if HF is on that scum team, then making DF the night-kill undoes all of HF's work to get him lynched and hurts his credibility to boot. On March 11 2018 20:35 rsoultin wrote: What makes it impossible for what hf is saying to be true? It isn't "impossible" or I would be saying he's dead-lock caught scum. But if you want to know why I don't believe him, you only need to go look at the case I posted against him again. | ||
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
On March 11 2018 20:44 n00bKing wrote: Lotta room between what you would choose to do, and saying "it was their only option." If DF is town and they wanted to make sure he died, they could have. But if HF is on that scum team, then making DF the night-kill undoes all of HF's work to get him lynched and hurts his credibility to boot. It isn't "impossible" or I would be saying he's dead-lock caught scum. But if you want to know why I don't believe him, you only need to go look at the case I posted against him again. Fair, I just don't think that quibbling over terminology is helpful. Either in clarifying a read or pushing your target. Which is perhaps hypocritical cause I have the same problem myself, just saying. Don't think this argument is going anywhere. | ||
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MoosyDoosy
United States4519 Posts
On March 11 2018 20:39 rsoultin wrote: You can say that you changed because it made people angry, and that answers the first question (not entirely satisfactorily for me, but whatever, it certainly can still be true). Stating that you're used to rayn people jumping up your ass though doesn't match up with why you said you trolled before...though tbf that was years ago. Before you said you were doing it to trap scum by luring them into pushing you. Like this was an active strategy of yours. Wasn't it? Were you lying in that town game? This is getting into really pointless details imo. But it went something like this: I tried to play mafia normally -> got hard scum read by geript -> feelsbadman -> played in a game with rayn -> got hard scumread by him and brutally tunneled -> feelsbadman -> saw either glowingbear or alakaslam play (i dont remember which) -> was like hey they're acting crazy to get reactions this looks fun -> played another game with rayn -> he scumreads me again -> hey this looks like a good time to troll -> trolls -> was a lot of fun actually -> get a game without rayn -> hey maybe i can try trolling this game from the start rather than as a reaction -> commence trolling d1 -> post game realize that mafia lined up on my wagon nicely -> hey this can be a legit strat -> in future games with rayn or someone I find equally obnoxious use trolling as a defense mechanism -> use trolling in games without rayn as a legitimate tactic -> fast forward 2 years -> feels bad that i made a lot of ppl hate playing the game becuz of me -> decide to not troll | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30775 Posts
On March 11 2018 20:45 rsoultin wrote: HF, what happened to your points on me? You were arguing with noob that they were still valid (and I'm not going to bother addressing that again), so doesn't that mean you still believe them? I still believe them but just that they're points against you. I never pushed you as mafia I was just outlining my thoughts to the thread on why it's not impossible for you to be. | ||
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MoosyDoosy
United States4519 Posts
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MoosyDoosy
United States4519 Posts
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
On March 11 2018 20:51 Holyflare wrote: I still believe them but just that they're points against you. I never pushed you as mafia I was just outlining my thoughts to the thread on why it's not impossible for you to be. Lol okay well, of course not. I was the one who prevented the prp lynch, effectively. (Still only relevant point imo but that's water under the bridge.) | ||
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