EPTOn July 26 2017 20:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
gg
rels you really need to start playing earlier.
gg
rels you really need to start playing earlier.
for once it was totally out of my hands. Not that it excuses the other times p:
[M][N] Generic Mini Mafia III - Page 155
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Rels
France13467 Posts
for once it was totally out of my hands. Not that it excuses the other times p: | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
On July 26 2017 20:31 Holyflare wrote: It's all right, it was clearly that time of month. + Show Spoiler + July 14th 2017 Not funny. | ||
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sicklucker
Canada16987 Posts
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30775 Posts
Oh please, lighten up. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30775 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
Emotions kind of belong to the mafia game (or those things happen), but this was really not it. | ||
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sicklucker
Canada16987 Posts
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sicklucker
Canada16987 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On July 26 2017 22:09 sicklucker wrote: Maybe but you guys have way too much emotion for an internet guessing game Yeah but you will never know what personal "insult" hits a person in their hard place. I bet i for example could make you feel the same if i just knew what to say (and vice versa). Some people don't think it is a big deal, others might, that's the point. For example if i was gay and you told me "you're just not making any sense because you're gay" repeatedly it is not okay, and i might take offense in it while for you it might not seem like a big deal. And it has nothing to do with a mafia game in the first place. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30775 Posts
On July 26 2017 22:07 raynpelikoneet wrote: You are right Holyflare. But you are also wrong because there are certain things like race, gender, sexuality and disability that should all be off limits and not just heavily modded. I mean this was not an instance where someone gets mad at some other person and calls them names. Emotions kind of belong to the mafia game (or those things happen), but this was really not it. I don't see at any part where any of those things legitimately came into play this game other than Ruxxar's comment, maybe SL. While I do agree that all of those things are bad - and I'm not disputing Rsoultin felt bad - I don't agree with her on 90% of the things she linked as inflammatory sexist remarks. I spent the entire game just thinking it was bull shit mafia overblown nonsense because we are in a mafia game and there was no mod action and half of it wasn't even bad looking and so took the piss. If you want people to stop doing something then involve independent third parties. Maybe I'm more militant in my views against things like this and I'm in the wrong compared to 99% of people but I will simply not believe anything people say in this game. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30775 Posts
On July 26 2017 22:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yeah but you will never know what personal "insult" hits a person in their hard place. I bet i for example could make you feel the same if i just knew what to say (and vice versa). Some people don't think it is a big deal, others might, that's the point. For example if i was gay and you told me "you're just not making any sense because you're gay" repeatedly it is not okay, and i might take offense in it while for you it might not seem like a big deal. And it has nothing to do with a mafia game in the first place. But nobody in this game said anything like this in the slightest. Only Ruxxar's comment alluded that rsoultin was acting a way because of something female. Which is why the whole ruse looked farcical to me. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On July 26 2017 22:24 Holyflare wrote: But nobody in this game said anything like this in the slightest. Only Ruxxar's comment alluded that rsoultin was acting a way because of something female. Which is why the whole ruse looked farcical to me. It doesn't matter if someone did or didn't. The fact that someone thinks people did is imo enough. Unless it's completely bullshit which it isn't because at least i can see why she thinks so. Only Ruxxar's comment alluded that rsoultin was acting a way because of something female. I mean you did so too, even if you didn't mean it. Or at least a couple of posts you made look veeeery much like it. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30775 Posts
On July 26 2017 22:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: It doesn't matter if someone did or didn't. The fact that someone thinks people did is imo enough. Unless it's completely bullshit which it isn't because at least i can see why she thinks so. And none of the people here meant it to be inflammatory. None of the people here did it to make rsoultin feel bad. In my view 90% of the things quoted were gender neutral, non-sexist remarks and certainly didn't state she was acting a way because of her gender. So when two differing opinions clash in a mafia game and on one side you have someone thinking it's a mafia plan and on the other side you have someone annoyed and angry legitimately or not then how does one proceed? Get mod support instead of writing it in the thread. The more you write that has nothing to do with mafia the more the other person is going to press you on producing stuff and the more annoyed you will get. Mod action ends it immediately. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30775 Posts
On July 26 2017 22:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: It doesn't matter if someone did or didn't. The fact that someone thinks people did is imo enough. Unless it's completely bullshit which it isn't because at least i can see why she thinks so. I mean you did so too, even if you didn't mean it. Or at least a couple of posts you made look veeeery much like it. I am very very much of the view that humorous remarks transcend pc culture and can be joked about. Please, I legit want to talk about my posts and what you found sexist in them because I want to air these things out so I can either learn or do whatever with it. | ||
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Skynx
Turkey7150 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On July 26 2017 22:36 Holyflare wrote: (1) And none of the people here meant it to be inflammatory. (2) None of the people here did it to make rsoultin feel bad. (3) In my view 90% of the things quoted were gender neutral, non-sexist remarks and certainly didn't state she was acting a way because of her gender. (4) So when two differing opinions clash in a mafia game and on one side you have someone thinking it's a mafia plan and on the other side you have someone annoyed and angry legitimately or not then how does one proceed? (5) Get mod support instead of writing it in the thread. The more you write that has nothing to do with mafia the more the other person is going to press you on producing stuff and the more annoyed you will get. Mod action ends it immediately. (1) of course not (2) of course not (3) i will take an example, this; "Rsoul has seemingly devolved into a flurry of feminine vomit rather than a mafia player. Artanis has dulled your wit." i am not sure why how this is gender neutral? Like i totally get what you are saying there but newsflash, some people might take offense from you adding one or some (completely irrelevant to a mafia game) of their personal features into a post. Someone might even think your read is BECAUSE of those personal features. Yes, people actually may think so, and in the end it doesn't matter if they should or shouldn't. (4) you can say you think it's a mafia ploy to just post hearts or whatever shit, not adding the implication of "and she does it because she is female". I am pretty sure you can get your message across that way too  (5) Yes, you are right. But the thing here is, and was, that it shouldn't be the case and an issue in the first place. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30775 Posts
Rsoul the last time I played with her is a bite-y aggressive mafia player. This game she was overboard buddy posting all squiggles and hearts. Adding feminine as a descriptor for lots of hearts and squiggles I guess is inherently sexist due to being gendered but it in no way implies she is doing these things because she is female. Quite the contrary, I call her mafia for the buddy hearts. Since I haven't played with her since she got in a relationship with artanis this is simply a stark contrast to aggressive rsoultin of any alignment. Nothing to do with being female and so simple correlation and causation comes into effect and she's gone soft. If someone said to me I got more love-y dovey and complacent after being in a relationship I'd be like, "ok that's an observation." Where does gender come into it? | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
On July 26 2017 22:24 Holyflare wrote: But nobody in this game said anything like this in the slightest. Only Ruxxar's comment alluded that rsoultin was acting a way because of something female. Which is why the whole ruse looked farcical to me. I actually disagree with you. I don't remember the exact offending statements, but I know I had a read during the game that I thought rsoultin might be scum because she wasn't offended enough. Maybe my sensitivity is set a little higher because I'm a not-straight guy who lives in the bible belt, but I don't think so. To give an example, one of my friends I can't make "Your Mom" jokes with because his mom died of cancer two days before I was supposed to go visit her. We've been friends since I was like 6 or 7; and our circle of friends were all very close with his family (even though we all still joke that she was a bit crazy and yelled at us to go to bed instead of playing video games). It's just an issue that even 5 years after the fact is a very sore spot. I get very heated when people I barely know make homophobic comments or gay jokes; to the point that when a patient made a homophobic slur against me, the staff I was working with didn't allow me to have a patient to prevent any sort of problems. If I were a mod, I hope I would've stopped the shit that went on in this game earlier. I don't think there's a clear delineation of where I can point to and say, "This is over the line." Because it's ok to call people bad; there's also a point where calling someone bad repeatedly is over the line. I don't think everyone's line is going to be in the same place; lord know's palmar's isnt. But I think that when it comes to the historically oppressed (women, transgender, gay, non-white, etc.) we should err on the side of caution so everyone is capable of having fun. | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
On July 26 2017 22:59 Holyflare wrote:This game she was overboard buddy posting all squiggles and hearts. Adding femine as a descriptor for lots of hearts and squiggles I guess is inherently sexist due to being gendered but it in no way implies she is doing these things because she is female. Quite the contrary, I call her mafia for the buddy hearts. This I think is a fine observation; I think it hits on whatever it was that I couldn't pick up on why I didn't like her early on. But it's not how it came across in game imo. To me, it came across as more "she's acting like more of a girl now;" which I think is why I didn't really follow up on or think about those comments seriously. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On July 26 2017 22:59 Holyflare wrote: I can see how that post can be misconstrued to appear sexist but it has absolutely nothing to do with gender. Rsoul the last time I played with her is a bite-y aggressive mafia player. This game she was overboard buddy posting all squiggles and hearts. Adding femine as a descriptor for lots of hearts and squiggles I guess is inherently sexist due to being gendered but it's a thing of our time but it in no way implies she is doing these things because she is female. Quite the contrary, I call her mafia for the buddy. Since I haven't played with her since she got in a relationship with artanis this is simply a stark contrast to aggressive rsoultin of any alignment. Nothing to do with being female and so simple correlation and causation comes into effect and she's gone soft. If someone said to me I got more love-y dovey and complacent after being in a relationship I'd be like, "ok that's an observation." Where does gender come into it? What i was trying to say is that no post on it's own (in this case) was bad in that sense. But when it goes on and on and people add these irrelevant descriptors to their posts it kind of becomes a thing. Especially when the person in question tells people to stop. Like... it's a bit hard to explain. I think rsoultin told you all in question she finds this as a problem. You guys didn't stop. It's imo very clear you can send the same message / read for people without these unnecessary descriptions. Regardless of if you guys meant it or not and regardless of if it is fair or not to take offense from it, it is a fact she did. And you must have at least known there is a possibility she does, as she said she does. I mean like this is not a mafia/town thing, this is about respecting other person in a way that when someone says "i dont like you guys doing this, this hasn't even anything to do with mafia" then you dont do it. i dont really know how to explain it, hope it does make some sense. | ||
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