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On March 19 2017 03:32 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2017 03:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:EBWOP: 1) The Damdred part is very weak. First of all, it's a bit too much to say that Eden's opening was obviously 100% NAI. In addition, even if it was 100% NAI, it's not a scummy thing to ask people for opinions on a sudden "big event". Their reaction could be possibly more significant than the event itself. Especially if there isn't much else to talk about yet. What you are debunking here i am not arguing is something that makes Damdred mafia so all you have said is you don't understand my case. 2) On second thoughts, the Malongo part isn't that bad. Just not strong/convincing. debunked? Please explain your Damdred case better then. I went on to be more critical of your Malongo case later on. I can find that post for you if you want....
Damdred had an opinion of the Eden opening being NAI. Then he asked disformation something about it, when where every answer disformation can give leads to the same thing -> "scummy
Damdred already thought "Eden's opener is NAI" (which is what he said), he also though "dismormation thinks something about it" which means whatever disformation says he thinks of it SHOULD lead to same conclusion for Damdred.
- bad town ("no, it's NAI")
- scum ("no it's NAI")
- NAI ("but you already implied it means something?????")
Basically he should have a conclusion (whatever one) even before the question (and answer). The question cannot help you figure out disformation's alignment better so the only reason for the question is to be active and talk about something completely useless.
Like if i asked you "Xatalos do you prefer ice cream or ketchup better?" and implied "this is totally something that helps me figuring out your alignment" what would you think? Totes reasonable?
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I don't care about the Malongo read. There is nothing that can convince me otherwise because i am feeling strongly about it. And that is something that cannot possibly need more explaining.
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On March 19 2017 03:36 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2017 03:33 Calix wrote:On March 19 2017 03:32 Xatalos wrote:On March 19 2017 03:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:EBWOP: 1) The Damdred part is very weak. First of all, it's a bit too much to say that Eden's opening was obviously 100% NAI. In addition, even if it was 100% NAI, it's not a scummy thing to ask people for opinions on a sudden "big event". Their reaction could be possibly more significant than the event itself. Especially if there isn't much else to talk about yet. What you are debunking here i am not arguing is something that makes Damdred mafia so all you have said is you don't understand my case. 2) On second thoughts, the Malongo part isn't that bad. Just not strong/convincing. debunked? Please explain your Damdred case better then. I went on to be more critical of your Malongo case later on. I can find that post for you if you want.... Didn't he already explain his Damdred logic like, ten times when he was interacting with me earlier? I'd look at that. I'd rather you explain YOUR Rayn scum-read better, actually. I'm not confident that he's scum, but usually when he's adamant about pushing weak cases he's scum. That's what triggered my lingering suspicion after his big case post.
If you're not confident then maybe explain your thought process to the rest of the class (aka, using evidence from this game) about how he could be mafia THIS GAME...preferably with minimal meta references if possible. If you struggle with that then reconsider your case.
You're welcome for this great advice 
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Honestly though as an aside df fuck you attitude coupeled with the confidence of the you can push this point but it won't be you anywhere jazz has me thinking it just comes from a town perspective.
Hmmmm I kinda like that.
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On March 19 2017 03:32 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2017 03:33 Xatalos wrote:On March 17 2017 10:18 Malongo wrote:On March 17 2017 10:06 darthfoley wrote:
Oh! Also don't like Malongo I think we are in the same team tbh. You quote still sucks anyways. My general read is pretty weak at this point. I don´t like how fast Damdred and disformation are piling up ealry. I would rather find a third way because we may be making mafia life too easy. So I propose lynching Ryan. Not that I find him specially scummy but I don´t want to play with a troll for a second time. ##ryanpelikoneetEverything else es just nonsense for me at this point. rayn, you said that your suspicion of Malongo was based on this post and how he did these.... - There is no reason to call Darthfoley town just because he is calling Malongo mafia - There is no reason to assume disformation and Damdred are town just because there are people voting for them 1) The way I read it, Malongo said that foley was town DESPITE calling him scum, not the other way around. How did you come to that conclusion? How does that even make sense? 2) Malongo didn't even say that they're town, just that he'd prefer to get alternative voting action? All in all, it's just so.... weak. Almost as weak as the reads on Damdred/me. Is this really the best you got to push with apparent confidence?
If someone says this:
I don´t like how fast Damdred and disformation are piling up ealry. I would rather find a third way because we may be making mafia life too easy.
...they literally have to think both of the wagons are town otherwise this in itself doesn't make any fucking sense at all.
So there it is, you didn't really debunk anything.
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On March 19 2017 03:37 Eden1892 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2017 03:30 Xatalos wrote:On March 19 2017 03:01 Eden1892 wrote:##UNVOTEThis firewall tanked my mafia time last night and this morning  almost certainly going to be gone at EOD as well, wedding in ~3 hrs. I think my case on Calix still has merit, but I can see no one was really interested, and I know I don't have time to push it through the more active players today, so I'm going to shelve it and make my vote more useful. On March 19 2017 02:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 18 2017 05:15 Eden1892 wrote:On March 18 2017 05:10 Calix wrote:On March 18 2017 04:57 Eden1892 wrote:On March 18 2017 04:23 darthfoley wrote:
I'd like your overall reads when you have them Eden I don't have a lot yet and I'm sure outside of Calix, none of it is interesting. Top town is Xatalos followed shortly by rayn and Koshi. Top scum is Calix. Damdred has said a lot without a lot jumping out at me one way or another. I don't recall having this much difficulty discerning any feeling about his alignment when he's one of the more active posters in the thread before. Not really sure what to make of it yet, and to be fair to him, my relative disconnectedness from this game compared to past ones on here is probably to blame. I think disformation is lock town if I'm right about Calix. Pretty sure Calix is scum and spewed disfo town. Loved this post by disfo as well: On March 17 2017 18:05 disformation wrote:On March 17 2017 17:58 Calix wrote:
Explain scum motivation for calling multiple people town this early on and stating that I do not want to lynch them today. I'd like to see the inevitable bullshit which is sure to come. 1) Push someone weak so you have a scum read 2) get lazy and give the rest lazy town reads 3) "look how much work i already did" if shit happens you can still easily backtrack, since its early and the trs where fairly weak in the first place I don't get the Malongo wagon having so many votes. He's a giant blank right now and it's weird that a wagon on a straight null poster got so much traction so quick. Makes me think that there were multiple mafia driving the early discussion and managed to get attention centered on a townie with weak/no thread presence. The alternative is that Malongo is mafia and his team can't do anything to stop the town, in which case this game is easy and I'm not worried anyway. That's about all I got that I think matters right now. If you're already using pre-flip associations and getting tunnel vision re: me before anyone has even flipped then your reads are going to be so off it's not even funny. What do you actually think of Malongo himself? Why exactly he is null to you? Why wouldn't he be null? This is a weird concept, since people are null by default, but here goes. He's null because he hasn't done anything relevant or important yet. He said something interesting about not liking the speed at which Damdred and disformation wagons grew. I like these kinds of observations, all else equal, but he didn't do anything with it and his vote on ray had no serious motivation behind it. So the sum of his actions is... nothing. He made a potentially interesting observation and did nothing to make it actually interesting. He voted for some guy for no particular reason. It's a bunch of air. Null. Like if Eden says this he literally must think my case is crap because my case on Malongo is based on something he found slightly townie. He doesn't think Damdred (who i am voting for) is mafia. Xatalos (who was and is my third scumread) is his top townread. Why am i town in Eden's eys? That's basically everything i have done in this game, called these three people out. I disagree with your reads all the time lol. I've learned not to let that affect my read on you. My heuristics might be outdated, but when you're mafia you tend to be disproportionately forceful in tone compared to the strength of your argument. You'll push speculative reasons as though they were absolute fact and effectively bully-pulpit the thread and shove people into lining up behind you. When you're town, whether or not I agree with your direction in the thread, I at least get the sense that you're treating your arguments with the respect they deserve instead of demanding an undue amount of it from the other players. I think your play this game has been much more in line with the town description than the mafia description. I bet you'll even agree. So even though I don't like your Malongo case or Xatalos scumread, I can still easily be comfortable calling you town. As for Damdred, I didn't say that I don't think he's mafia, just that he didn't make an impression one way or another. I'm still not really prepared to say that he isn't, either. Just seems like he's said a lot of words and made a lot of posts, but very little has made a strong impression either way. I'll go and reread his filter and try to develop a more crystallized opinion of him for you though, since that's your wagon for today and I trust your motivations. I can kind of agree with how you're metaing rayn - but are you sure about the conclusion that he's giving his reads the "appropriate amount of force"? To me it's felt like he's pushed them with a little too much confidence compared to their strengths. I didn't explain this well. When I say "force" I'm not referring to confidence - ray always has this in spades. What I mean is that he tends as mafia to treat people like total morons if they dissent from him, whereas you can see here that he's not being degrading or demeaning toward people who disagree
Hmmm.... Maybe you have a point. He's actually trying to explain things. As scum he's tended to just ignore / push me if I've opposed him, kind of trying to bury me / others under his posts.
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Eden, why do you keep talking about a meta-read on a strong town-read of yours instead of engaging with your biggest scum-read in the thread? O.o
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On March 19 2017 03:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2017 03:32 Xatalos wrote:On March 19 2017 03:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:EBWOP: 1) The Damdred part is very weak. First of all, it's a bit too much to say that Eden's opening was obviously 100% NAI. In addition, even if it was 100% NAI, it's not a scummy thing to ask people for opinions on a sudden "big event". Their reaction could be possibly more significant than the event itself. Especially if there isn't much else to talk about yet. What you are debunking here i am not arguing is something that makes Damdred mafia so all you have said is you don't understand my case. 2) On second thoughts, the Malongo part isn't that bad. Just not strong/convincing. debunked? Please explain your Damdred case better then. I went on to be more critical of your Malongo case later on. I can find that post for you if you want.... Damdred had an opinion of the Eden opening being NAI. Then he asked disformation something about it, when where every answer disformation can give leads to the same thing -> "scummy Damdred already thought "Eden's opener is NAI" (which is what he said), he also though "dismormation thinks something about it" which means whatever disformation says he thinks of it SHOULD lead to same conclusion for Damdred. - bad town ("no, it's NAI") - scum ("no it's NAI") - NAI ("but you already implied it means something?????") Basically he should have a conclusion (whatever one) even before the question (and answer). The question cannot help you figure out disformation's alignment better so the only reason for the question is to be active and talk about something completely useless. Like if i asked you "Xatalos do you prefer ice cream or ketchup better?" and implied "this is totally something that helps me figuring out your alignment" what would you think? Totes reasonable?
This isn't necessarily true because I his quotations around what xata said. I really thought xata as that before i looked and asked the question before I went back and xhecked.
Hence the start I the miscommunication between xata/damd/cal/disf
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On March 19 2017 03:41 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2017 03:32 Xatalos wrote:On March 18 2017 03:33 Xatalos wrote:On March 17 2017 10:18 Malongo wrote:On March 17 2017 10:06 darthfoley wrote:
Oh! Also don't like Malongo I think we are in the same team tbh. You quote still sucks anyways. My general read is pretty weak at this point. I don´t like how fast Damdred and disformation are piling up ealry. I would rather find a third way because we may be making mafia life too easy. So I propose lynching Ryan. Not that I find him specially scummy but I don´t want to play with a troll for a second time. ##ryanpelikoneetEverything else es just nonsense for me at this point. rayn, you said that your suspicion of Malongo was based on this post and how he did these.... - There is no reason to call Darthfoley town just because he is calling Malongo mafia - There is no reason to assume disformation and Damdred are town just because there are people voting for them 1) The way I read it, Malongo said that foley was town DESPITE calling him scum, not the other way around. How did you come to that conclusion? How does that even make sense? 2) Malongo didn't even say that they're town, just that he'd prefer to get alternative voting action? All in all, it's just so.... weak. Almost as weak as the reads on Damdred/me. Is this really the best you got to push with apparent confidence? If someone says this: Show nested quote +I don´t like how fast Damdred and disformation are piling up ealry. I would rather find a third way because we may be making mafia life too easy. ...they literally have to think both of the wagons are town otherwise this in itself doesn't make any fucking sense at all. So there it is, you didn't really debunk anything.
Man It must v great to have these smart thoughts and say I haven't had anything smart to say...
When I literally said this exact things (and some of the other things you said) before you did right after their posts.
And then youbwont even interact with me.
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On March 19 2017 03:41 Calix wrote:
Eden, why do you keep talking about a meta-read on a strong town-read of yours instead of engaging with your biggest scum-read in the thread? O.o
As an addition to this, why are you voting for Damdred and why not engage with him?
(I know you said earlier that you didn't get an easy town read on him but that's not the same thing as a scum read)
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On March 19 2017 03:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2017 03:32 Xatalos wrote:On March 19 2017 03:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:EBWOP: 1) The Damdred part is very weak. First of all, it's a bit too much to say that Eden's opening was obviously 100% NAI. In addition, even if it was 100% NAI, it's not a scummy thing to ask people for opinions on a sudden "big event". Their reaction could be possibly more significant than the event itself. Especially if there isn't much else to talk about yet. What you are debunking here i am not arguing is something that makes Damdred mafia so all you have said is you don't understand my case. 2) On second thoughts, the Malongo part isn't that bad. Just not strong/convincing. debunked? Please explain your Damdred case better then. I went on to be more critical of your Malongo case later on. I can find that post for you if you want.... Damdred had an opinion of the Eden opening being NAI. Then he asked disformation something about it, when where every answer disformation can give leads to the same thing -> "scummy Damdred already thought "Eden's opener is NAI" (which is what he said), he also though "dismormation thinks something about it" which means whatever disformation says he thinks of it SHOULD lead to same conclusion for Damdred. - bad town ("no, it's NAI") - scum ("no it's NAI") - NAI ("but you already implied it means something?????") Basically he should have a conclusion (whatever one) even before the question (and answer). The question cannot help you figure out disformation's alignment better so the only reason for the question is to be active and talk about something completely useless. Like if i asked you "Xatalos do you prefer ice cream or ketchup better?" and implied "this is totally something that helps me figuring out your alignment" what would you think? Totes reasonable?
I agree it's not the best question, but I don't agree it makes him scum. It was pretty much the only meaningful thing that had happened back then, so it's not unreasonable to ask someone for their opinion on that. Even if the original post doesn't tell much, someone's reaction to it might. It's not uncommon for myself to ask questions that may not be hugely important at the start to get something going.
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I don't care what you did after that post because it's irrelevant to that post.
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On March 19 2017 03:41 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2017 03:32 Xatalos wrote:On March 18 2017 03:33 Xatalos wrote:On March 17 2017 10:18 Malongo wrote:On March 17 2017 10:06 darthfoley wrote:
Oh! Also don't like Malongo I think we are in the same team tbh. You quote still sucks anyways. My general read is pretty weak at this point. I don´t like how fast Damdred and disformation are piling up ealry. I would rather find a third way because we may be making mafia life too easy. So I propose lynching Ryan. Not that I find him specially scummy but I don´t want to play with a troll for a second time. ##ryanpelikoneetEverything else es just nonsense for me at this point. rayn, you said that your suspicion of Malongo was based on this post and how he did these.... - There is no reason to call Darthfoley town just because he is calling Malongo mafia - There is no reason to assume disformation and Damdred are town just because there are people voting for them 1) The way I read it, Malongo said that foley was town DESPITE calling him scum, not the other way around. How did you come to that conclusion? How does that even make sense? 2) Malongo didn't even say that they're town, just that he'd prefer to get alternative voting action? All in all, it's just so.... weak. Almost as weak as the reads on Damdred/me. Is this really the best you got to push with apparent confidence? If someone says this: Show nested quote +I don´t like how fast Damdred and disformation are piling up ealry. I would rather find a third way because we may be making mafia life too easy. ...they literally have to think both of the wagons are town otherwise this in itself doesn't make any fucking sense at all. So there it is, you didn't really debunk anything.
At least the first point wasn't really worth anything. The second might, possibly - but I don't think it's inherently scummy to think of alternative wagons even if you're not 100% sure that both of the top wagons are town. Townieness is a scale, not yes/no.
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On March 19 2017 03:45 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2017 03:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 19 2017 03:32 Xatalos wrote:On March 19 2017 03:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:EBWOP: 1) The Damdred part is very weak. First of all, it's a bit too much to say that Eden's opening was obviously 100% NAI. In addition, even if it was 100% NAI, it's not a scummy thing to ask people for opinions on a sudden "big event". Their reaction could be possibly more significant than the event itself. Especially if there isn't much else to talk about yet. What you are debunking here i am not arguing is something that makes Damdred mafia so all you have said is you don't understand my case. 2) On second thoughts, the Malongo part isn't that bad. Just not strong/convincing. debunked? Please explain your Damdred case better then. I went on to be more critical of your Malongo case later on. I can find that post for you if you want.... Damdred had an opinion of the Eden opening being NAI. Then he asked disformation something about it, when where every answer disformation can give leads to the same thing -> "scummy Damdred already thought "Eden's opener is NAI" (which is what he said), he also though "dismormation thinks something about it" which means whatever disformation says he thinks of it SHOULD lead to same conclusion for Damdred. - bad town ("no, it's NAI") - scum ("no it's NAI") - NAI ("but you already implied it means something?????") Basically he should have a conclusion (whatever one) even before the question (and answer). The question cannot help you figure out disformation's alignment better so the only reason for the question is to be active and talk about something completely useless. Like if i asked you "Xatalos do you prefer ice cream or ketchup better?" and implied "this is totally something that helps me figuring out your alignment" what would you think? Totes reasonable? I agree it's not the best question, but I don't agree it makes him scum. It was pretty much the only meaningful thing that had happened back then, so it's not unreasonable to ask someone for their opinion on that. Even if the original post doesn't tell much, someone's reaction to it might. It's not uncommon for myself to ask questions that may not be hugely important at the start to get something going.
The problem is the post looks like it actually is something he finds relevant. It's not just some random throwaway question people can do at the start of the game. It's a very detailed question instead.
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On March 19 2017 03:41 Calix wrote:
Eden, why do you keep talking about a meta-read on a strong town-read of yours instead of engaging with your biggest scum-read in the thread? O.o
Cuz I have no impulse control and the idea of trying to validate years-old meta in this game was interesting.
Also I'm a few in and have no idea what I'm doing.
+ Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler +i'm also second-guessing my scumread on you but i'm being lazy and don't want to reassess it too hard and lose all of what i perceived to be my progress this game
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I would so v willing to be lynched right now if rayn would apologize for ignoring me all game and calling all mybposts not smart when he has said exactly whatvi did multiple times.
Who I with me I'll even hammer myself.
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On March 19 2017 03:48 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2017 03:45 Xatalos wrote:On March 19 2017 03:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 19 2017 03:32 Xatalos wrote:On March 19 2017 03:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:EBWOP: 1) The Damdred part is very weak. First of all, it's a bit too much to say that Eden's opening was obviously 100% NAI. In addition, even if it was 100% NAI, it's not a scummy thing to ask people for opinions on a sudden "big event". Their reaction could be possibly more significant than the event itself. Especially if there isn't much else to talk about yet. What you are debunking here i am not arguing is something that makes Damdred mafia so all you have said is you don't understand my case. 2) On second thoughts, the Malongo part isn't that bad. Just not strong/convincing. debunked? Please explain your Damdred case better then. I went on to be more critical of your Malongo case later on. I can find that post for you if you want.... Damdred had an opinion of the Eden opening being NAI. Then he asked disformation something about it, when where every answer disformation can give leads to the same thing -> "scummy Damdred already thought "Eden's opener is NAI" (which is what he said), he also though "dismormation thinks something about it" which means whatever disformation says he thinks of it SHOULD lead to same conclusion for Damdred. - bad town ("no, it's NAI") - scum ("no it's NAI") - NAI ("but you already implied it means something?????") Basically he should have a conclusion (whatever one) even before the question (and answer). The question cannot help you figure out disformation's alignment better so the only reason for the question is to be active and talk about something completely useless. Like if i asked you "Xatalos do you prefer ice cream or ketchup better?" and implied "this is totally something that helps me figuring out your alignment" what would you think? Totes reasonable? I agree it's not the best question, but I don't agree it makes him scum. It was pretty much the only meaningful thing that had happened back then, so it's not unreasonable to ask someone for their opinion on that. Even if the original post doesn't tell much, someone's reaction to it might. It's not uncommon for myself to ask questions that may not be hugely important at the start to get something going. The problem is the post looks like it actually is something he finds relevant. It's not just some random throwaway question people can do at the start of the game. It's a very detailed question instead.
Hmmm.... I didn't take it that way. Looked more of a "reaction test" / discussion starter to me?
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Side note: If you two are going to talk about Damdred, can we move away from the question thing and onto something a bit more relevant/ less beaten?
It's becoming the disformation misunderstanding of this chat, AKA, nothing new is going to come of it. Nobody new will find the question logic persuasive or find Rayn scummy for pursuing it.
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What else is Damdred even being pushed for?
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Don't be dumb, Damdred. Martyring yourself because Rayn's being stubborn is like martyring yourself because LS used caps lock 
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EPT
