|
On March 18 2017 05:10 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2017 04:57 Eden1892 wrote:On March 18 2017 04:23 darthfoley wrote:
I'd like your overall reads when you have them Eden I don't have a lot yet and I'm sure outside of Calix, none of it is interesting. Top town is Xatalos followed shortly by rayn and Koshi. Top scum is Calix. Damdred has said a lot without a lot jumping out at me one way or another. I don't recall having this much difficulty discerning any feeling about his alignment when he's one of the more active posters in the thread before. Not really sure what to make of it yet, and to be fair to him, my relative disconnectedness from this game compared to past ones on here is probably to blame. I think disformation is lock town if I'm right about Calix. Pretty sure Calix is scum and spewed disfo town. Loved this post by disfo as well: On March 17 2017 18:05 disformation wrote:On March 17 2017 17:58 Calix wrote:
Explain scum motivation for calling multiple people town this early on and stating that I do not want to lynch them today. I'd like to see the inevitable bullshit which is sure to come. 1) Push someone weak so you have a scum read 2) get lazy and give the rest lazy town reads 3) "look how much work i already did" if shit happens you can still easily backtrack, since its early and the trs where fairly weak in the first place I don't get the Malongo wagon having so many votes. He's a giant blank right now and it's weird that a wagon on a straight null poster got so much traction so quick. Makes me think that there were multiple mafia driving the early discussion and managed to get attention centered on a townie with weak/no thread presence. The alternative is that Malongo is mafia and his team can't do anything to stop the town, in which case this game is easy and I'm not worried anyway. That's about all I got that I think matters right now. If you're already using pre-flip associations and getting tunnel vision re: me before anyone has even flipped then your reads are going to be so off it's not even funny. What do you actually think of Malongo himself? Why exactly he is null to you?
Why wouldn't he be null? This is a weird concept, since people are null by default, but here goes.
He's null because he hasn't done anything relevant or important yet. He said something interesting about not liking the speed at which Damdred and disformation wagons grew. I like these kinds of observations, all else equal, but he didn't do anything with it and his vote on ray had no serious motivation behind it.
So the sum of his actions is... nothing. He made a potentially interesting observation and did nothing to make it actually interesting. He voted for some guy for no particular reason. It's a bunch of air. Null.
|
On March 18 2017 05:11 Eden1892 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2017 05:02 Calix wrote:
Eden, I still don't see anything that makes me mafia. All you did was say "here are some characteristics I think are town and here's what I would have done and since Calix didn't do these then Calix is mafia"
How the fuck am I supposed to respond to that?! I'm not you, thank the Lord, and there's no One True Way for town to play.
Ta dah, I have countered your 'case' in five minutes. If you think I missed anything then pls bulletpoint because reading your rambling walls of pretentious crap is giving me a migraine. You forgot the parts where: - your reasoning was bunk - you got really pissy for no reason when I tried to understand where you were coming from. I hope I made that short enough for your attention span, let me know if I need to break it down further. And hey, if y'all are gonna post 400 comments a day and give me a migraine, you can suffer through some long-winded sentences every now and then. Seems fair.  If you're so worried about little ole me voting for you, you can make a good case for Malongo being mafia. I don't actually get where that's coming from and I see you parked there, so maybe if you're town you can do us both a favor by showing me what I'm missing about Malongo and about you with a good case. If not, I can keep doing my thing here and that's fine by me. Your call.
I'm not annoyed, that's my charm and wit showing. Swearing =/= anger.
My main point on Malongo is that his main action so far (voting Rayn for NAI reasons - trolling) goes against his stated aim of trying to save Damdred and disformation. Why? Because Malongo's reasoning for voting for Rayn is extremely unlikely to persuade anyone to switch off DD/ disfo. He doesn't explain why the individual players are town either.
It's like he's pretending to care and look cautious while not ACTUALLY trying to change the outcome. Make sense?
And no, I'm not going to make a town case on myself. If you stop saying retarded shit like that then I might stop calling you an idiot and cooperate
|
On March 18 2017 05:13 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2017 05:09 disformation wrote:On March 18 2017 05:05 Calix wrote:On March 18 2017 04:56 disformation wrote:
eden is slightly confusing me in a "the me of this morning would like/agree/post the same stuff" way. Hm? just feels weird reading him post stuff very similar to what I was posting earlier today. deja vu like. not sure what to make of it. hes also ignoring other stuff you did like the interactions with rayn. def. liked his overall reads post more than that. Wouldn't that count as him mind-melding with you, thus a town-read in your eyes then? I think his case against me is fundamentally flawed since he assumes that townies have a Specific Way of playing as town but I don't think it's mafia-motivated. Way too much focus on the context and you can see how he thinks. Which means we have quite a problem on our hands re: too many townie-looking people. It's extremely unlikely, statistically speaking, that Rels/ Onegu are two of the mafia so I think we're dealing with a vet or two as mafia.
TBH I never 100% understood that mindmeld stuff. The thing is: if I still was scumreading you, there would be a case for that, but I think I was a bit omgus inflicted earlier today and liked your interactions with rayn for example.
but yeah unless it is straight up rels/1eg/malongo, which would be fairly lulz, we kinda have a little problem on our hand.
|
On March 18 2017 05:19 disformation wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2017 05:13 Calix wrote:On March 18 2017 05:09 disformation wrote:On March 18 2017 05:05 Calix wrote:On March 18 2017 04:56 disformation wrote:
eden is slightly confusing me in a "the me of this morning would like/agree/post the same stuff" way. Hm? just feels weird reading him post stuff very similar to what I was posting earlier today. deja vu like. not sure what to make of it. hes also ignoring other stuff you did like the interactions with rayn. def. liked his overall reads post more than that. Wouldn't that count as him mind-melding with you, thus a town-read in your eyes then? I think his case against me is fundamentally flawed since he assumes that townies have a Specific Way of playing as town but I don't think it's mafia-motivated. Way too much focus on the context and you can see how he thinks. Which means we have quite a problem on our hands re: too many townie-looking people. It's extremely unlikely, statistically speaking, that Rels/ Onegu are two of the mafia so I think we're dealing with a vet or two as mafia. TBH I never 100% understood that mindmeld stuff. The thing is: if I still was scumreading you, there would be a case for that, but I think I was a bit omgus inflicted earlier today and liked your interactions with rayn for example. but yeah unless it is straight up rels/1eg/malongo, which would be fairly lulz, we kinda have a little problem on our hand.
I think I might have to reconsider the validity of mind-melding after this game. I've had too many moments where people have agreed with me and vice versa already.
Well since three people think my early interactions with you were problematic then the logical conclusion is that I fucked up there, probably with misunderstanding you re: what Eden pointed out. But that's my cross to bear.
And you say it's a problem, but I prefer the term 'challenge'. Difficult game state, not being insta-town-read/ N1'd, playing with the pros...I am actually pretty hyped for this game.
|
On March 18 2017 05:24 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2017 05:19 disformation wrote:On March 18 2017 05:13 Calix wrote:On March 18 2017 05:09 disformation wrote:On March 18 2017 05:05 Calix wrote:On March 18 2017 04:56 disformation wrote:
eden is slightly confusing me in a "the me of this morning would like/agree/post the same stuff" way. Hm? just feels weird reading him post stuff very similar to what I was posting earlier today. deja vu like. not sure what to make of it. hes also ignoring other stuff you did like the interactions with rayn. def. liked his overall reads post more than that. Wouldn't that count as him mind-melding with you, thus a town-read in your eyes then? I think his case against me is fundamentally flawed since he assumes that townies have a Specific Way of playing as town but I don't think it's mafia-motivated. Way too much focus on the context and you can see how he thinks. Which means we have quite a problem on our hands re: too many townie-looking people. It's extremely unlikely, statistically speaking, that Rels/ Onegu are two of the mafia so I think we're dealing with a vet or two as mafia. TBH I never 100% understood that mindmeld stuff. The thing is: if I still was scumreading you, there would be a case for that, but I think I was a bit omgus inflicted earlier today and liked your interactions with rayn for example. but yeah unless it is straight up rels/1eg/malongo, which would be fairly lulz, we kinda have a little problem on our hand. I think I might have to reconsider the validity of mind-melding after this game. I've had too many moments where people have agreed with me and vice versa already. Well since three people think my early interactions with you were problematic then the logical conclusion is that I fucked up there, probably with misunderstanding you re: what Eden pointed out. But that's my cross to bear. And you say it's a problem, but I prefer the term 'challenge'. Difficult game state, not being insta-town-read/ N1'd, playing with the pros...I am actually pretty hyped for this game.
I like that attitude. More difficult games also are more rewarding than easy or dead games. Regardless of the outcome imo.
i probably should have gone to bed directly and not stayed up that extra hour to play the game yesterday. would probably have made the game more readable at least.
|
so some random thoughts about what/who I might have missed. not sure if ill completely sort it out today, but dunno some ideas what i could have been missing / want to reconsider tomorrow:
a) rayn and koshi are right on damdred after all
b) tw got cut too much slack
c) its someone i am not considering at all atm
|
dunno. feel like tomorrow would be a good time to read through all filters again. hope deepblue did some posting till then.
have that hope for 1eg and rels as well... just feels not very realistic xD
|
On March 18 2017 05:35 disformation wrote:
so some random thoughts about what/who I might have missed. not sure if ill completely sort it out today, but dunno some ideas what i could have been missing / want to reconsider tomorrow:
a) rayn and koshi are right on damdred after all
b) tw got cut too much slack
c) its someone i am not considering at all atm
A) Possible, will filter him soonish. I did defend him a lot earlier and then never really paid him mind afterwards, should look at what he's done lately.
B) Have just looked over TW's filter. He isn't doing a lot except for giving town reads and admits to having no scum reads. That's not necessarily scummy though. After all, I am increasingly finding that everyone in my original scum pool looks townie so TW thinking the same way isn't AI. It might be notable that he seems pessimistic (vets are very hard to read, etc, not a productive attitude when a lot of the players are vets) and has yet to make a concerted effort to find mafia or really engage with people to get a feel for them. But he could also feel disheartened that nobody is obvious mafia - I could definitely relate there.
Anyway, let me know what you think there.
|
DF also a possible mafia candidate. Mainly his pg 2 filter since there are a lot of criticisms of players but I'm not sure what his scum-reads are exactly. And a lot of one-liners and random questions which blend in with the rest of the chat.
I actually thought I was a scum-read but DF's latest post just has me as a "possibility"
He's critical of Xatalos, TW, Malongo (his current vote), disformation (does say that he thinks disfo's D1s suck tbh). Also thinks there's some weird shit between Damdred/ Calix...although since he thinks I'm scummy, I don't understand why his first thought wasn't TvW or something.
tl;dr: Possible middle-of-the-road scummer here who throws out suspicious without following it up in any meaningful way.
|
On March 18 2017 05:49 Calix wrote:
DF also a possible mafia candidate. Mainly his pg 2 filter since there are a lot of criticisms of players but I'm not sure what his scum-reads are exactly. And a lot of one-liners and random questions which blend in with the rest of the chat.
I actually thought I was a scum-read but DF's latest post just has me as a "possibility"
He's critical of Xatalos, TW, Malongo (his current vote), disformation (does say that he thinks disfo's D1s suck tbh). Also thinks there's some weird shit between Damdred/ Calix...although since he thinks I'm scummy, I don't understand why his first thought wasn't TvW or something.
tl;dr: Possible middle-of-the-road scummer here who throws out suspicions without following it up in any meaningful way.
EBWOP
I would like clarification from DF, just to make it explicit.
|
mh, i like you noting that tw sounds pessimistic. some ppl think thats more likely to come from scum.
i kinda like that tw is kinda stubborn about his TvT read. think would be more profitable for scum to make up some stuff about it being a scum vs town thing and then trying to ml both. unless you are scum with tw ofc. xD
otherwise it is a bit meh. like you said very little content and scumhunting. would really like for him to explain his malongo town lean. tone is also slightly more town like. nice mix between not giving a damn and being fairly chill, like with his rayn read and the tvt thing.
|
On March 18 2017 05:15 Eden1892 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2017 05:10 Calix wrote:On March 18 2017 04:57 Eden1892 wrote:On March 18 2017 04:23 darthfoley wrote:
I'd like your overall reads when you have them Eden I don't have a lot yet and I'm sure outside of Calix, none of it is interesting. Top town is Xatalos followed shortly by rayn and Koshi. Top scum is Calix. Damdred has said a lot without a lot jumping out at me one way or another. I don't recall having this much difficulty discerning any feeling about his alignment when he's one of the more active posters in the thread before. Not really sure what to make of it yet, and to be fair to him, my relative disconnectedness from this game compared to past ones on here is probably to blame. I think disformation is lock town if I'm right about Calix. Pretty sure Calix is scum and spewed disfo town. Loved this post by disfo as well: On March 17 2017 18:05 disformation wrote:On March 17 2017 17:58 Calix wrote:
Explain scum motivation for calling multiple people town this early on and stating that I do not want to lynch them today. I'd like to see the inevitable bullshit which is sure to come. 1) Push someone weak so you have a scum read 2) get lazy and give the rest lazy town reads 3) "look how much work i already did" if shit happens you can still easily backtrack, since its early and the trs where fairly weak in the first place I don't get the Malongo wagon having so many votes. He's a giant blank right now and it's weird that a wagon on a straight null poster got so much traction so quick. Makes me think that there were multiple mafia driving the early discussion and managed to get attention centered on a townie with weak/no thread presence. The alternative is that Malongo is mafia and his team can't do anything to stop the town, in which case this game is easy and I'm not worried anyway. That's about all I got that I think matters right now. If you're already using pre-flip associations and getting tunnel vision re: me before anyone has even flipped then your reads are going to be so off it's not even funny. What do you actually think of Malongo himself? Why exactly he is null to you? Why wouldn't he be null? This is a weird concept, since people are null by default, but here goes. He's null because he hasn't done anything relevant or important yet. He said something interesting about not liking the speed at which Damdred and disformation wagons grew. I like these kinds of observations, all else equal, but he didn't do anything with it and his vote on ray had no serious motivation behind it. So the sum of his actions is... nothing. He made a potentially interesting observation and did nothing to make it actually interesting. He voted for some guy for no particular reason. It's a bunch of air. Null.
This is the main reason I voted on him. The first half of this is actually rather townie, but the failure to act on it and try to actively drive a wagon elsewhere is what makes me feel like he might be mafia either trying to save a partner or white-knighting after the lynch of a T
|
damdred is also in a kinda weird spot.
i liked edens observation that damdy is fairly meh. as i said earlier the points of rayn and koshi are not huge to me, but they kinda add up.
a town!damdy for me is that when he is able to explain his reads very well in very few sentences. which is kinda present in the posts i liked from him.
maybe i am cutting him too much slack? damdy is also very good as scum and i dont have much experience with scum!dred, so my tell could be crap?
|
that being said, simply being meh is also very well in damdy's town range. xD
so hard to tell from that.
|
mh df is kinda a town lean on tone.
wouldnt mind him clarifying his reads / stating where he is currently at outside of malongo
|
On March 18 2017 05:54 disformation wrote:
mh, i like you noting that tw sounds pessimistic. some ppl think thats more likely to come from scum.
i kinda like that tw is kinda stubborn about his TvT read. think would be more profitable for scum to make up some stuff about it being a scum vs town thing and then trying to ml both. unless you are scum with tw ofc. xD
otherwise it is a bit meh. like you said very little content and scumhunting. would really like for him to explain his malongo town lean. tone is also slightly more town like. nice mix between not giving a damn and being fairly chill, like with his rayn read and the tvt thing.
Has that "lol let's say it sounds like SvT and ML both" idea EVER worked in killing the two townies? Just wondering P:
Dunno about his tone but then again, I have an easier time when I can actually talk to the person.
Like with Rayn, his tone was really good. Eden's didn't feel manipulative either, more focused on accusing his scum-read and being 'witty' than selling anything, really.
Anyway, I think we should not lynch TW today then. If he's not actively trying to sabotage the abundance of town-reads (like people initially thought earlier re: that town circle post) then he's asserting himself as someone who isn't disruptive, ergo less likely to be mafia.
|
On March 18 2017 05:49 Calix wrote:
DF also a possible mafia candidate. Mainly his pg 2 filter since there are a lot of criticisms of players but I'm not sure what his scum-reads are exactly. And a lot of one-liners and random questions which blend in with the rest of the chat.
I actually thought I was a scum-read but DF's latest post just has me as a "possibility"
He's critical of Xatalos, TW, Malongo (his current vote), disformation (does say that he thinks disfo's D1s suck tbh). Also thinks there's some weird shit between Damdred/ Calix...although since he thinks I'm scummy, I don't understand why his first thought wasn't TvW or something.
tl;dr: Possible middle-of-the-road scummer here who throws out suspicious without following it up in any meaningful way.
Nah i still have you in my scum pile, but I believe Malongo is a better lynch than you currently. My use of the word possibility was simply referencing lynch orders.
I'm critical of Xatalos because I felt like he labored on and on about the same hashed up shit from early D1. I don't recall him really driving conversation or inquisiting people after that.
I think disformation often says he doesn't have the best D1 play. I would agree with him this game, but playing poorly has never equaled mafia so no, I never really scum read him. He's in the town side of null category.
I've explained my suspicions rather succinctly in my opinion, and what I think of players in the game. My overall list goes something like this:
Town
Eden
rayn
Koshi
disformation
Xata
DeepBlue
Onegu
Rels
Calix
Damdred
Malongo
Mafia
Something like that
|
oh i forgot tumble. He's right around Damdred, probably between Malongo and Damdred
|
I think that tell isn't the best, I'm extremely aware of my meta and try to change and manipulate it as best as I can as scum to try to get better and ice on people.
But let's be honest here, the game is pretty difficult outside a few things.
As for little things adding up on me I don't really think any of it adds up to a decent case at all. Like Rayns main point I've explained 50 times already by the misunderstanding between myself and disformation.
|
And the obvious reason for mafia to list a bunch of town reads while not scumhunting is that they can claim PoE later in the day and defend it by saying the person wasn't in their town circle etc. I think it's actually quite a safe play because it allows some potential for buddying and it gives a pre-determined defense when their PoE flips green.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
