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On January 07 2017 11:05 Grackaroni wrote:
Which of your posts are townie? Can you tell me why they are townie?
Love the avoiding of my question and instead deflect it back to me.
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On January 07 2017 11:19 ika42 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2017 11:05 Grackaroni wrote:
Which of your posts are townie? Can you tell me why they are townie? Love the avoiding of my question and instead deflect it back to me.
It goes straight to the heart of the question. If you cannot quote some posts to prove yourself town to me then surely I cannot do so to convince you that Vivax is town
I've already given an answer that I find satisfactory. I like the effort he's putting into the game. I like the angles that he's pushing. I like his attitude and response to being pressured.
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Now I leave you to your task if you would like further explanation
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On January 07 2017 11:21 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2017 11:19 ika42 wrote:On January 07 2017 11:05 Grackaroni wrote:
Which of your posts are townie? Can you tell me why they are townie? Love the avoiding of my question and instead deflect it back to me. It goes straight to the heart of the question. If you cannot quote some posts to prove yourself town to me then surely I cannot do so to convince you that Vivax is town I've already given an answer that I find satisfactory. I like the effort he's putting into the game. I like the angles that he's pushing. I like his attitude and response to being pressured.
i asked first so burden of proof is on you.
Also the question you are asking is not the same as what i am asking. You are asking em to prove I am town not somebody else. My question is asking you to prove your read on someone else not yourself.
Again, show me posts that show the efforts and angles you are talking about. Otherwise i will say your fabricating the read on him.
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On January 07 2017 11:25 ika42 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2017 11:21 Grackaroni wrote:On January 07 2017 11:19 ika42 wrote:On January 07 2017 11:05 Grackaroni wrote:
Which of your posts are townie? Can you tell me why they are townie? Love the avoiding of my question and instead deflect it back to me. It goes straight to the heart of the question. If you cannot quote some posts to prove yourself town to me then surely I cannot do so to convince you that Vivax is town I've already given an answer that I find satisfactory. I like the effort he's putting into the game. I like the angles that he's pushing. I like his attitude and response to being pressured. i asked first so burden of proof is on you. Also the question you are asking is not the same as what i am asking. You are asking em to prove I am town not somebody else. My question is asking you to prove your read on someone else not yourself. Again, show me posts that show the efforts and angles you are talking about. Otherwise i will say your fabricating the read on him.
Then I will alter the task. Prove to me that Silverwolf is town.
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On January 07 2017 11:21 Grackaroni wrote:
Now I leave you to your task if you would like further explanation
"I cant prove what i said so im going to make someone else do work so i can stall"
nice to know grack is scum
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On January 07 2017 11:28 ika42 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2017 11:21 Grackaroni wrote:
Now I leave you to your task if you would like further explanation "I cant prove what i said so im going to make someone else do work so i can stall" nice to know grack is scum
You've got me on the ropes.
Now bury me with your Silverwolf town case and I will be forced to explain my read.
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On January 07 2017 11:26 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2017 11:25 ika42 wrote:On January 07 2017 11:21 Grackaroni wrote:On January 07 2017 11:19 ika42 wrote:On January 07 2017 11:05 Grackaroni wrote:
Which of your posts are townie? Can you tell me why they are townie? Love the avoiding of my question and instead deflect it back to me. It goes straight to the heart of the question. If you cannot quote some posts to prove yourself town to me then surely I cannot do so to convince you that Vivax is town I've already given an answer that I find satisfactory. I like the effort he's putting into the game. I like the angles that he's pushing. I like his attitude and response to being pressured. i asked first so burden of proof is on you. Also the question you are asking is not the same as what i am asking. You are asking em to prove I am town not somebody else. My question is asking you to prove your read on someone else not yourself. Again, show me posts that show the efforts and angles you are talking about. Otherwise i will say your fabricating the read on him. Then I will alter the task. Prove to me that Silverwolf is town.
Answer mine first, the burden of proof is on you. Also IIRC you have already called her town so i question your reason for a pointless task.
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On January 07 2017 09:24 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2017 08:31 darthfoley wrote:
@Calix Like do you really expect every player who goes AFK for a period of time to provide a reason why? If so, I can wait for the impending doom for btdt and Onegu lol You wont get reasons why I go afk. I used to provide them but then had a discussion over it with someone that it can cause people to make reads on me based on my reasons. So I have stopped posting them for the most part. Unless I know in a few days I have a doctors appointment and wont be around I normally tell people about it before hand but if something comes up and I am gone I just comeback and dont say anything anymore.
Now that your caught up with the reading you could have told people who your leads are. Instead you have become entirely defensive about your activity, and BostonSC's failed vote for you. I want you to get on track since I kind of trust your VT claim.
So here is a question for you. I am currently leaning toward Vivax myself because of SilverWolf77's response to my questioning. So why do you feel this way: On January 07 2017 09:27 Onegu wrote:
So Vivax and Boston look bad to me.
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On January 07 2017 11:29 ika42 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2017 11:26 Grackaroni wrote:On January 07 2017 11:25 ika42 wrote:On January 07 2017 11:21 Grackaroni wrote:On January 07 2017 11:19 ika42 wrote:On January 07 2017 11:05 Grackaroni wrote:
Which of your posts are townie? Can you tell me why they are townie? Love the avoiding of my question and instead deflect it back to me. It goes straight to the heart of the question. If you cannot quote some posts to prove yourself town to me then surely I cannot do so to convince you that Vivax is town I've already given an answer that I find satisfactory. I like the effort he's putting into the game. I like the angles that he's pushing. I like his attitude and response to being pressured. i asked first so burden of proof is on you. Also the question you are asking is not the same as what i am asking. You are asking em to prove I am town not somebody else. My question is asking you to prove your read on someone else not yourself. Again, show me posts that show the efforts and angles you are talking about. Otherwise i will say your fabricating the read on him. Then I will alter the task. Prove to me that Silverwolf is town. Answer mine first, the burden of proof is on you. Also IIRC you have already called her town so i question your reason for a pointless task.
I'm doing this because my read isn't based off of any one post. I find the task stupid. And if you show your quotes for silverwolf being town then I will show why I think so by applying the exact same things you say to Vivax. Anything that you can say to call her townie could be equally applied to him.
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On January 07 2017 11:32 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2017 11:29 ika42 wrote:On January 07 2017 11:26 Grackaroni wrote:On January 07 2017 11:25 ika42 wrote:On January 07 2017 11:21 Grackaroni wrote:On January 07 2017 11:19 ika42 wrote:On January 07 2017 11:05 Grackaroni wrote:
Which of your posts are townie? Can you tell me why they are townie? Love the avoiding of my question and instead deflect it back to me. It goes straight to the heart of the question. If you cannot quote some posts to prove yourself town to me then surely I cannot do so to convince you that Vivax is town I've already given an answer that I find satisfactory. I like the effort he's putting into the game. I like the angles that he's pushing. I like his attitude and response to being pressured. i asked first so burden of proof is on you. Also the question you are asking is not the same as what i am asking. You are asking em to prove I am town not somebody else. My question is asking you to prove your read on someone else not yourself. Again, show me posts that show the efforts and angles you are talking about. Otherwise i will say your fabricating the read on him. Then I will alter the task. Prove to me that Silverwolf is town. Answer mine first, the burden of proof is on you. Also IIRC you have already called her town so i question your reason for a pointless task. I'm doing this because my read isn't based off of any one post. I find the task stupid. And if you show your quotes for silverwolf being town then I will show why I think so by applying the exact same things you say to Vivax. Anything that you can say to call her townie could be equally applied to him.
I know its not based on one post. I dont need you quoting the entire ISO i want just a few that explain why it makes you think its town.
Also you are now setting up an out on how to read his post by me doing silverwolfs iso so now i really want to see it. You also keep avoiding the fact that burden of proof is on you to show us why hes town cus nobody else seems to have said as much right now about him so if you want to convince to me that hes town show me your work. Many have also called silverwolf town as well but not vix so there must be something different in the view of others.
Taking it further, if thats the case, you should have no problem doing it if it can apply to silverwolf herself cus that would explain 2 reads at once would it not?
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On January 07 2017 07:47 reps)squishy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2017 06:39 SilverWolf77 wrote:On January 07 2017 04:56 reps)squishy wrote:On January 06 2017 23:37 SilverWolf77 wrote:On January 06 2017 23:33 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 23:32 SilverWolf77 wrote:On January 06 2017 23:10 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 23:07 ika42 wrote:On January 06 2017 22:56 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 22:28 ika42 wrote:
[quote]
how come you are acting like i am town? How does that question have anything to do with your alignment? On January 06 2017 22:35 darthfoley wrote:
[quote]
Yea scum try to appear useful. This is why I focused on ika compared to someone like Onegu. Ika started the game with this useful looking questionnaire thing that everyone agrees is NAI for everyone-- but it gets people talking!
Since that post it's basically been chummy with KSC and SW. I just feel like everything else in this game could've happened without using the questionnaire, which reminds me of the "appearance of utility" meta point.
Do you have any opinion of Grack or Calix atm? Grack no opinion yet, as for calix I just let her do her thing as she's active and keeps delivering her view of the game. Right now I'm mostly waiting for you and Kelsier to post more as your posts are what I'm concentrating the most on at the moment. So do you actually believe you have something on ika or not? That he tried to appear useful with the questionnaire is I think not an argument you mentioned earlier. i asked you a question, i do not expect a question in return. I expect an answer. If you have a question after that then you can ask. Your question already implies that I guessed your alignment, which is wrong, so it can't be answered. On January 06 2017 23:07 SilverWolf77 wrote:On January 06 2017 14:13 Vivax wrote:Is there anyone here who actually didn't play mafia before, or just very very little? On January 06 2017 11:31 darthfoley wrote:
[quote]
I actually feel weird about ika. Asked the kinda useless questionnaire and has basically been bs'ing a bit since. Not a real read but I find his opening a little off This read looks forced. I mean, you will say it isn't a read I know, but we both know it kind of is. And to me it just looks like you were looking for someone to make look guilty easily to fulfill Calix demand. Fend yourself, Foley. Vivax-Why are you defending ika so early in the game? Suspecting someone doesn't mean I'm defending his scumreads, which you are assuming I do. When you are interjecting yourself into a person's suspicion of someone else, without letting him scumhunt ika, then that means you think ika is town. Otherwise, you would want ika to respond first to get a read on him. I get going after someone for having what you think is a bad read on someone else, but this is spending too much time defending a person who you have not even given an opinion on yet but are acting like he's town. I would like your read on ika. Is he town or not and why? So right now you're interjecting in my suspicion on foley and hence townreading him? You should have realized by now that it's not how this is going to work. And you should realize by now that your constant deflection and this kind of attitude doesn't work with me at all. I don't see how you can be town so I'm gonna go ahead and place my vote here. You don't see how he can be town? I see you did vote for him. Can you elaborate what makes you feel this way for a more oblivious individual such as myself. I made a few posts after this explaining it more. Here let me get them for you. On January 07 2017 00:02 SilverWolf77 wrote:On January 06 2017 23:40 Vivax wrote:
I don't have a read on ika so far and I don't need to have one to question darthfoley's read on him. No, you don't have to have a read on ika to say darthfoley's read on him is bad. I agree. The problem I have is the way you are doing it. Basically, ika no longer has to answer the suspicion because you interjected. Not only interjected but also defended ika by asking if darthfoley has his meta and implying that ika's questions are not scummy. You have a right to have an opinion on ika's questioning but the way you are doing it is very protective of ika. If you have no read of ika, this doesn't make much sense. I guess my gut just pinged hard off of that and also I think you interjected when someone was questioning someone else-I think Calix pointed this out already. Anyway, from my experience, scum like to do this because they get towncred for defending people they know are town. It's way too early to have a super strong opinion on someone's alignment, unless you know that alignment. Doesn't mean we can't have reads. We certainly can. But when I would of preferred to see ika answer the suspicion and engage with darth rather than have you interject. Sorry if I'm not explaining myself well. I'm tired and rambling right now. Be back in a little bit. On January 07 2017 01:12 SilverWolf77 wrote:
No, it isn't that I think darthfoley's suspicion of ika is worth it.
It's more that I saw you defending two people who you don't have a townread on. By saying B0stonSC just does things that way is a defense of him before he can even answer the question directed at him. You asking darth if he has ika's meta looked like a defense of ika.
Also, In response to my suspicion, you deflected or tried to discredit rather than just explaining yourself further.
That said, giving your own opinion of B0stonSC's opening or your own opinion of darth's read on ika as fake is totally valid and not scummy to me at all.
It was a combination of what looked like defending people he didn't have a read on by interjecting and answering for them and also acting like he knew they were town with the way he was talking about them (mentioning ika's meta, B0ston SC's playstyle when he knows nothing about these things) plus deflecting/discrediting of any suspicion. There are a few posts of Vivax's which don't look as bad but I tend to aggressively persue what pings me as scummy because we don't have a lot to go on d1. @SWI can see the defense people with out a read being suspicious. Let the player defend themselves, they have their own voice. Defending players without a read looks like they are backing up their scum-mates or trying hard to get town-cred. @KMatt I still want to hear your stance on Kelsier's logic Show nested quote +On January 07 2017 05:13 reps)squishy wrote:
Kelsier's logic was based on Ika's questionnaire people who responded early would be town. Then I think it was SW said maybe to opposite mafia would want to respond quickly. So Kelsier "perfectly fused the two theories to make the 4th person who respond mafia. Grack just unfortunately posted 4th which Kelsier humorously then voted for him. So do you also believe in the post too early or too late you are possible scum so the in between is where it is at? If you don't believe Kelsier's hypothesis then this statement "I can see why Kelsier wouldn't like him." is not all that true
I am not out to lynch Kelsier, just his lynch vote is not based on any logic or read I would find compelling.
Why is it weird that I would "see why Kelsier wouldn't like him" without sharing the same sentiment? I can see why someone would want to be a vegan, but that doesn't make me a vegan, does it?. I think it's kind of a silly system to base a vote on but people do all kinds of policy-lynch shenanigans D1 so it doesn't surprise me. I'm not out to lynch Kelsier either but if I were it wouldn't be over this.
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+ Show Spoiler +The following posts are Grack approved posts for reasons that Grackaroni has specified in earlier posts.
On January 06 2017 09:19 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 09:16 KelsierSC wrote:
well this start is shit tier, where dem boyz at? Seen a bunch of people flip mafia who complained about the state of the game at the start of the game, in my lifetime. Tempts me to find out if this is the case again. On January 06 2017 14:13 Vivax wrote:Is there anyone here who actually didn't play mafia before, or just very very little? Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 11:31 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 10:43 Calix wrote:
I sense I'll have an aneurysm at this rate.
DF, you seem sensible. What else have you noticed so far? I actually feel weird about ika. Asked the kinda useless questionnaire and has basically been bs'ing a bit since. Not a real read but I find his opening a little off This read looks forced. I mean, you will say it isn't a read I know, but we both know it kind of is. And to me it just looks like you were looking for someone to make look guilty easily to fulfill Calix demand. Fend yourself, Foley. On January 06 2017 17:30 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 16:25 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 16:14 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:48 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 15:42 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:39 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 15:30 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:21 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 14:13 Vivax wrote:Is there anyone here who actually didn't play mafia before, or just very very little? On January 06 2017 11:31 darthfoley wrote:
[quote]
I actually feel weird about ika. Asked the kinda useless questionnaire and has basically been bs'ing a bit since. Not a real read but I find his opening a little off This read looks forced. I mean, you will say it isn't a read I know, but we both know it kind of is. And to me it just looks like you were looking for someone to make look guilty easily to fulfill Calix demand. Fend yourself, Foley. Forced how? Of course it's a read, but it's a D1 read 3 hours in. Forgive me if i'm not wow'd by someone asking nebulous or irrelevant questions about self meta that could easily be bullshitted. His play since is more trolly than I prefer, except regarding the point on Calix's scum play which is actually useful. Why not 1gu then? I've never seen Onegu play a non trolly game. It's within his meta either way, especially D1 lol But you have seen ikas meta yes? No, I don't know the guy Idk why you are eager to suspect someone for not being super serious at the beginning of the game, when clearly you don't even know how he usually plays. So that's why I'm saying your read is forced, it looked like you found something worth smearing for the sake of itself cause calix asked you to dig something up. She asked me if I had picked up on anything else and that was the only thing I had found worth mentioning. I think it's hardly accurate to say that I'm trying to smear the dude. It's refreshing to assess someone's motives without knowing meta. You're less likely to talk yourself out of gut reads. No idea why you find that problematic. You're acting like I'm on a crusade against the guy lol. It's always easy to call out someone for being trolly or not contributive. And I don't see how that applies to him in particular. Even for yourself it's such a weak argument that you call it not a real read. So I find it unusual that asked whether you saw something worth picking up, you do it over something that you didn't feel strongly about, and for something that is imo NAI (not alignment indicative for who doesn't know) at this stage. So one possibility is you were simply being casual as town and throwing that out there even though for your play it will have little impact as you don't want to pursue that further. Then again that would mean that your answer to Calix "did you see something worthwhile" still wasn't answered and that you didn't find an avenue for finding scum there. Or you are scum with the pressure that comes to post something looking useful well knowing that as long as you post something that you don't have to commit to, you're fine. And that post also falls in this category, too. Now from this ambiguity why do I think that it makes you more likely mafia? Scum that doesn't have a trolly town meta by default will be under pressure to look useful. Your filter apart from one or two posts seems like you are trying to look useful. That post isn't something I believe you think to be useful. Otherwise tell me why you believe it's useful. Achieves something for yourself besides satisfying a request that you would grant only to enhance your standing with the town, which is mafia play. On January 06 2017 21:29 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 19:56 KelsierSC wrote:On January 06 2017 12:51 B0stonSC wrote:
About to go do a re read through, because Onegu hasn't posted anything of note since the game started (by of note, I mean anything I took note on) On January 06 2017 13:11 B0stonSC wrote:
yeah Onegu seems suspicious, so
##vote Onegu
This is true of many people so why is onegu the vote? I guessed that's just his way of doing things, ie judging people by perceived usefulness/compliance. And 1gu really looks like he's doing the least, which sadly isn't alignment indicative. BTDT still has to post but when he does it's usually a lot. There's a townie simplicity to Bostons posts, but that's just a first impression, and of course it's just an early read. Still need a grasp of how much he is actually following the game given he claims to have read and reread it and even took notes. Just voting 1gu doesn't give much info. On January 06 2017 23:25 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 23:18 SilverWolf77 wrote:On January 06 2017 16:14 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:48 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 15:42 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:39 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 15:30 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:21 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 14:13 Vivax wrote:Is there anyone here who actually didn't play mafia before, or just very very little? On January 06 2017 11:31 darthfoley wrote:
[quote]
I actually feel weird about ika. Asked the kinda useless questionnaire and has basically been bs'ing a bit since. Not a real read but I find his opening a little off This read looks forced. I mean, you will say it isn't a read I know, but we both know it kind of is. And to me it just looks like you were looking for someone to make look guilty easily to fulfill Calix demand. Fend yourself, Foley. Forced how? Of course it's a read, but it's a D1 read 3 hours in. Forgive me if i'm not wow'd by someone asking nebulous or irrelevant questions about self meta that could easily be bullshitted. His play since is more trolly than I prefer, except regarding the point on Calix's scum play which is actually useful. Why not 1gu then? I've never seen Onegu play a non trolly game. It's within his meta either way, especially D1 lol But you have seen ikas meta yes? No, I don't know the guy Idk why you are eager to suspect someone for not being super serious at the beginning of the game, when clearly you don't even know how he usually plays. So that's why I'm saying your read is forced, it looked like you found something worth smearing for the sake of itself cause calix asked you to dig something up. WTF? Why is ika hard town to you? And don't say he's not cuz no way would you defend him like this unless you are town who believes he's town or scum trying to get towncred if he's town. There's always a chance you are scumbuddies too with this attitude. So why are you townreading him? Let me adopt your logic for a moment: "Why are you scumreading Ika, silverwolf. Where did you scumread Ika huh?" By your logic, right now you would be scumreading Ika cause you are attacking my townread on him. But that's wrong! I can perfectly question someone's means of reading someone without having a read on that someone. Questioning the method is not the same as questioning the outcome. On January 06 2017 23:31 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 23:26 Calix wrote:On January 06 2017 21:29 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 19:56 KelsierSC wrote:On January 06 2017 12:51 B0stonSC wrote:
About to go do a re read through, because Onegu hasn't posted anything of note since the game started (by of note, I mean anything I took note on) On January 06 2017 13:11 B0stonSC wrote:
yeah Onegu seems suspicious, so
##vote Onegu
This is true of many people so why is onegu the vote? I guessed that's just his way of doing things, ie judging people by perceived usefulness/compliance. And 1gu really looks like he's doing the least, which sadly isn't alignment indicative. BTDT still has to post but when he does it's usually a lot. There's a townie simplicity to Bostons posts, but that's just a first impression, and of course it's just an early read. Still need a grasp of how much he is actually following the game given he claims to have read and reread it and even took notes. Just voting 1gu doesn't give much info. I don't like this post. Why are you answering for Boston? It's a simple question that he can answer by himself. And why explain your answer in enough depth that you even say why Boston might not have picked BTDT? (assuming that's why you brought up BTDT anyway) I also feel that your read on Boston does the over-explaining thing as well because you bring up all the minor things he has done so far. Yes I gave a read on a player while Kelsier was around to talk about him. Such scum. On January 07 2017 00:31 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2017 00:02 SilverWolf77 wrote:On January 06 2017 23:40 Vivax wrote:
I don't have a read on ika so far and I don't need to have one to question darthfoley's read on him. No, you don't have to have a read on ika to say darthfoley's read on him is bad. I agree. The problem I have is the way you are doing it. Basically, ika no longer has to answer the suspicion because you interjected. Not only interjected but also defended ika by asking if darthfoley has his meta and implying that ika's questions are not scummy. You have a right to have an opinion on ika's questioning but the way you are doing it is very protective of ika. If you have no read of ika, this doesn't make much sense. I guess my gut just pinged hard off of that and also I think you interjected when someone was questioning someone else-I think Calix pointed this out already. Anyway, from my experience, scum like to do this because they get towncred for defending people they know are town. It's way too early to have a super strong opinion on someone's alignment, unless you know that alignment. Doesn't mean we can't have reads. We certainly can. But when I would of preferred to see ika answer the suspicion and engage with darth rather than have you interject. Sorry if I'm not explaining myself well. I'm tired and rambling right now. Be back in a little bit. Ika has to answer the suspicion if you, or anyone else for that matter, make him feel like he has to. In your opinion I made him feel like he didn't have to cause I defended him by suspecting darthfoley. Well, I can and will voice my suspicion when I think I found something worthwhile and darthfoley can take his time to reply whenever he wants, just as ika can answer to darthfoley whenever he wants. So I don't think I hindered the scumhunting of someone in any way by doing my own. If you really think that darthfoley's line of thought was so worth it and cause of me, a hypothetical mafia ika got off the hook, you can still always ask ika about it yourself. But you rather saw it as important to reprimand me/call me mafia, not sure what it is yet. On January 07 2017 01:17 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2017 01:12 SilverWolf77 wrote:
No, it isn't that I think darthfoley's suspicion of ika is worth it.
It's more that I saw you defending two people who you don't have a townread on. By saying B0stonSC just does things that way is a defense of him before he can even answer the question directed at him. You asking darth if he has ika's meta looked like a defense of ika.
Also, In response to my suspicion, you deflected or tried to discredit rather than just explaining yourself further.
That said, giving your own opinion of B0stonSC's opening or your own opinion of darth's read on ika as fake is totally valid and not scummy to me at all.
There's a difference between discrediting and trying to expose why your reasoning is wrong. You also said I was sarcastic when I wasn't at all, I just emulated your logic. On January 07 2017 01:41 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2017 01:26 Calix wrote:I'm starting to relate to those people who always whine about how hard Calix vs NU is to read because I find the ika/ SW/ Vivax thing hard to follow. I'm still not sure I actually understand the full details of the case against Vivax. The one point that I really relate to is how Vivax deflects questions about his talking-for-people tendency with snark and doesn't answer them. When I asked about why he was answering for Boston he did that and he did it later on with SW. I see no purpose in speaking for other people on simple questions like "why did you vote for Onegu" and reads like busywork. I want an explanation for that because that's scummy as hell and he didn't counter that point off-the-cuff. + Show Spoiler [Evidence and shit] +On January 06 2017 23:31 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 23:26 Calix wrote:On January 06 2017 21:29 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 19:56 KelsierSC wrote:On January 06 2017 12:51 B0stonSC wrote:
About to go do a re read through, because Onegu hasn't posted anything of note since the game started (by of note, I mean anything I took note on) On January 06 2017 13:11 B0stonSC wrote:
yeah Onegu seems suspicious, so
##vote Onegu
This is true of many people so why is onegu the vote? I guessed that's just his way of doing things, ie judging people by perceived usefulness/compliance. And 1gu really looks like he's doing the least, which sadly isn't alignment indicative. BTDT still has to post but when he does it's usually a lot. There's a townie simplicity to Bostons posts, but that's just a first impression, and of course it's just an early read. Still need a grasp of how much he is actually following the game given he claims to have read and reread it and even took notes. Just voting 1gu doesn't give much info. I don't like this post. Why are you answering for Boston? It's a simple question that he can answer by himself. And why explain your answer in enough depth that you even say why Boston might not have picked BTDT? (assuming that's why you brought up BTDT anyway) I also feel that your read on Boston does the over-explaining thing as well because you bring up all the minor things he has done so far. Yes I gave a read on a player while Kelsier was around to talk about him. Such scum. On January 06 2017 23:25 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 23:18 SilverWolf77 wrote:On January 06 2017 16:14 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:48 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 15:42 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:39 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 15:30 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:21 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 14:13 Vivax wrote:Is there anyone here who actually didn't play mafia before, or just very very little? On January 06 2017 11:31 darthfoley wrote:
[quote]
I actually feel weird about ika. Asked the kinda useless questionnaire and has basically been bs'ing a bit since. Not a real read but I find his opening a little off This read looks forced. I mean, you will say it isn't a read I know, but we both know it kind of is. And to me it just looks like you were looking for someone to make look guilty easily to fulfill Calix demand. Fend yourself, Foley. Forced how? Of course it's a read, but it's a D1 read 3 hours in. Forgive me if i'm not wow'd by someone asking nebulous or irrelevant questions about self meta that could easily be bullshitted. His play since is more trolly than I prefer, except regarding the point on Calix's scum play which is actually useful. Why not 1gu then? I've never seen Onegu play a non trolly game. It's within his meta either way, especially D1 lol But you have seen ikas meta yes? No, I don't know the guy Idk why you are eager to suspect someone for not being super serious at the beginning of the game, when clearly you don't even know how he usually plays. So that's why I'm saying your read is forced, it looked like you found something worth smearing for the sake of itself cause calix asked you to dig something up. WTF? Why is ika hard town to you? And don't say he's not cuz no way would you defend him like this unless you are town who believes he's town or scum trying to get towncred if he's town. There's always a chance you are scumbuddies too with this attitude. So why are you townreading him? Let me adopt your logic for a moment: "Why are you scumreading Ika, silverwolf. Where did you scumread Ika huh?" By your logic, right now you would be scumreading Ika cause you are attacking my townread on him. But that's wrong! I can perfectly question someone's means of reading someone without having a read on that someone. Questioning the method is not the same as questioning the outcome. I didn't get the impression that Vivax made his posts against DF with the intent to defend ika so making guesses about ika's alignment from Vivax's behaviour is questionable imo. However I think that SW makes good observations about the discrepancy between Vivax's read on ika (or lack of it) and what he says regarding him. I feel like if you interact or talk about a player a lot, you should have a good reason if you end up with a null/ no read on them. I liked ika's reactions to Vivax a lot. Answering with snark? You didn't ask anything. You claimed that I answered for Boston. I clarified that I gave a read on him. This game is about trying to make oneself correctly readable as town. You could as well demand that anyone simply shuts up when he isn't asked about something specific. But this is a game of information not the military, and I can give reads on whoever I please without being asked. On January 07 2017 01:54 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2017 01:52 Calix wrote:On January 07 2017 01:48 Vivax wrote:
So far you and Ika both asked such loaded questions that already imply I did something I did not. Obviously you're not going to get a nice answer to "Do you always beat your wife" type of questions. Your point? If you ask shitty questions you get shitty answers On January 07 2017 02:01 Vivax wrote:
Should be a when*
Anyway.
I keep thinking it'd be cool if more people posted, this feels a lot like a clash between overeager townies which is what happens 80 % of the time in the average game of mafia.
I also feel a bit troubled by ika and Silver actually living together cause
they had little interaction at the start of the game, but then it wore off quickly.
And Silver was very eager to jump at me for apparently defending ika.
And ika brought ahead a similar argument where he said I was too sure of him being town.
Point being, they might have a common playstyle being a couple or whatever, and I don't really know how that plays out since they're new here. It did kinda feel concertated how they were bombarding me with accusations back there.
But it's just feels On January 07 2017 03:03 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2017 02:46 darthfoley wrote:On January 07 2017 02:36 Vivax wrote:On January 07 2017 02:33 darthfoley wrote:
I'd be interested to see Kelsier's take on this Vivax/ika/SW thing when he gets a chance.
And more from Grack And yours? Of the three of you, I liked SW's responses the best. They seem natural and attentive without being scared of making conclusions. I am town reading her I understand your initial questioning, but I don't like how you play semantics over the B0ston thing. Your first sentence is clearly more than a read imo On January 06 2017 21:29 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 19:56 KelsierSC wrote:On January 06 2017 12:51 B0stonSC wrote:
About to go do a re read through, because Onegu hasn't posted anything of note since the game started (by of note, I mean anything I took note on) On January 06 2017 13:11 B0stonSC wrote:
yeah Onegu seems suspicious, so
##vote Onegu
This is true of many people so why is onegu the vote? I guessed that's just his way of doing things, ie judging people by perceived usefulness/compliance. And 1gu really looks like he's doing the least, which sadly isn't alignment indicative. BTDT still has to post but when he does it's usually a lot. There's a townie simplicity to Bostons posts, but that's just a first impression, and of course it's just an early read. Still need a grasp of how much he is actually following the game given he claims to have read and reread it and even took notes. Just voting 1gu doesn't give much info. It's understandable why people think you're answering for him, indirectly with the "I guess" qualifier. So I don't like that you deflected and then kind of pulled an "OMGUS, the questions I got weren't up to my liking!" Yea I checked his answers to the questionnaire and figured he was a newbie. And as newbie one tends to strictly pay attention to how useful or compliant a person looks, so only obvious he'd go after 1gu. That's where my guess comes from.
The burden of proof's on you ika. Show me the town case.
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And now that I'm caught up:
Grack, I don't know what you're trying to do here, but you're better off not. You can't just say "oh this guy is town" and then refuse to explain the read in detail. As counter-intuitive as it sounds, that's more scummy than having a scumread you won't elaborate.
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On January 07 2017 11:53 Kmatt wrote:
And now that I'm caught up:
Grack, I don't know what you're trying to do here, but you're better off not. You can't just say "oh this guy is town" and then refuse to explain the read in detail. As counter-intuitive as it sounds, that's more scummy than having a scumread you won't elaborate.
If it makes you feel better I'm not going to write such a post on ika or Silverwolf either. Even though I'm pretty sure they both are as well.
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On January 07 2017 11:40 Kmatt wrote:
Why is it weird that I would "see why Kelsier wouldn't like him" without sharing the same sentiment? I can see why someone would want to be a vegan, but that doesn't make me a vegan, does it?. I think it's kind of a silly system to base a vote on but people do all kinds of policy-lynch shenanigans D1 so it doesn't surprise me. I'm not out to lynch Kelsier either but if I were it wouldn't be over this.
Fair enough, you could left Kelsier out it entirely though.
On January 07 2017 04:38 Kmatt wrote:
Grackaroni
Still waiting on more. Like with SW, I don't scumread this guy enough to vote him, but I can see why Kelsier wouldn't like him. A bit too quick to jump the gun but I've done that myself and everyone plays D1 differently.
If you could weigh in on the situation at hand I'd feel better. Leaning scum but not enough to vote while Boston is here.
The fact that you put his name in there did make me feel like you shared his sentiment. But I asked the question to see if you did and you don't so that is that.
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On January 07 2017 11:52 Grackaroni wrote:+ Show Spoiler +The following posts are Grack approved posts for reasons that Grackaroni has specified in earlier posts.
On January 06 2017 09:19 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 09:16 KelsierSC wrote:
well this start is shit tier, where dem boyz at? Seen a bunch of people flip mafia who complained about the state of the game at the start of the game, in my lifetime. Tempts me to find out if this is the case again. On January 06 2017 14:13 Vivax wrote:Is there anyone here who actually didn't play mafia before, or just very very little? Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 11:31 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 10:43 Calix wrote:
I sense I'll have an aneurysm at this rate.
DF, you seem sensible. What else have you noticed so far? I actually feel weird about ika. Asked the kinda useless questionnaire and has basically been bs'ing a bit since. Not a real read but I find his opening a little off This read looks forced. I mean, you will say it isn't a read I know, but we both know it kind of is. And to me it just looks like you were looking for someone to make look guilty easily to fulfill Calix demand. Fend yourself, Foley. On January 06 2017 17:30 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 16:25 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 16:14 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:48 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 15:42 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:39 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 15:30 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:21 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 14:13 Vivax wrote:Is there anyone here who actually didn't play mafia before, or just very very little? On January 06 2017 11:31 darthfoley wrote:
[quote]
I actually feel weird about ika. Asked the kinda useless questionnaire and has basically been bs'ing a bit since. Not a real read but I find his opening a little off This read looks forced. I mean, you will say it isn't a read I know, but we both know it kind of is. And to me it just looks like you were looking for someone to make look guilty easily to fulfill Calix demand. Fend yourself, Foley. Forced how? Of course it's a read, but it's a D1 read 3 hours in. Forgive me if i'm not wow'd by someone asking nebulous or irrelevant questions about self meta that could easily be bullshitted. His play since is more trolly than I prefer, except regarding the point on Calix's scum play which is actually useful. Why not 1gu then? I've never seen Onegu play a non trolly game. It's within his meta either way, especially D1 lol But you have seen ikas meta yes? No, I don't know the guy Idk why you are eager to suspect someone for not being super serious at the beginning of the game, when clearly you don't even know how he usually plays. So that's why I'm saying your read is forced, it looked like you found something worth smearing for the sake of itself cause calix asked you to dig something up. She asked me if I had picked up on anything else and that was the only thing I had found worth mentioning. I think it's hardly accurate to say that I'm trying to smear the dude. It's refreshing to assess someone's motives without knowing meta. You're less likely to talk yourself out of gut reads. No idea why you find that problematic. You're acting like I'm on a crusade against the guy lol. It's always easy to call out someone for being trolly or not contributive. And I don't see how that applies to him in particular. Even for yourself it's such a weak argument that you call it not a real read. So I find it unusual that asked whether you saw something worth picking up, you do it over something that you didn't feel strongly about, and for something that is imo NAI (not alignment indicative for who doesn't know) at this stage. So one possibility is you were simply being casual as town and throwing that out there even though for your play it will have little impact as you don't want to pursue that further. Then again that would mean that your answer to Calix "did you see something worthwhile" still wasn't answered and that you didn't find an avenue for finding scum there. Or you are scum with the pressure that comes to post something looking useful well knowing that as long as you post something that you don't have to commit to, you're fine. And that post also falls in this category, too. Now from this ambiguity why do I think that it makes you more likely mafia? Scum that doesn't have a trolly town meta by default will be under pressure to look useful. Your filter apart from one or two posts seems like you are trying to look useful. That post isn't something I believe you think to be useful. Otherwise tell me why you believe it's useful. Achieves something for yourself besides satisfying a request that you would grant only to enhance your standing with the town, which is mafia play. On January 06 2017 21:29 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 19:56 KelsierSC wrote:On January 06 2017 12:51 B0stonSC wrote:
About to go do a re read through, because Onegu hasn't posted anything of note since the game started (by of note, I mean anything I took note on) On January 06 2017 13:11 B0stonSC wrote:
yeah Onegu seems suspicious, so
##vote Onegu
This is true of many people so why is onegu the vote? I guessed that's just his way of doing things, ie judging people by perceived usefulness/compliance. And 1gu really looks like he's doing the least, which sadly isn't alignment indicative. BTDT still has to post but when he does it's usually a lot. There's a townie simplicity to Bostons posts, but that's just a first impression, and of course it's just an early read. Still need a grasp of how much he is actually following the game given he claims to have read and reread it and even took notes. Just voting 1gu doesn't give much info. On January 06 2017 23:25 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 23:18 SilverWolf77 wrote:On January 06 2017 16:14 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:48 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 15:42 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:39 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 15:30 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:21 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 14:13 Vivax wrote:Is there anyone here who actually didn't play mafia before, or just very very little? On January 06 2017 11:31 darthfoley wrote:
[quote]
I actually feel weird about ika. Asked the kinda useless questionnaire and has basically been bs'ing a bit since. Not a real read but I find his opening a little off This read looks forced. I mean, you will say it isn't a read I know, but we both know it kind of is. And to me it just looks like you were looking for someone to make look guilty easily to fulfill Calix demand. Fend yourself, Foley. Forced how? Of course it's a read, but it's a D1 read 3 hours in. Forgive me if i'm not wow'd by someone asking nebulous or irrelevant questions about self meta that could easily be bullshitted. His play since is more trolly than I prefer, except regarding the point on Calix's scum play which is actually useful. Why not 1gu then? I've never seen Onegu play a non trolly game. It's within his meta either way, especially D1 lol But you have seen ikas meta yes? No, I don't know the guy Idk why you are eager to suspect someone for not being super serious at the beginning of the game, when clearly you don't even know how he usually plays. So that's why I'm saying your read is forced, it looked like you found something worth smearing for the sake of itself cause calix asked you to dig something up. WTF? Why is ika hard town to you? And don't say he's not cuz no way would you defend him like this unless you are town who believes he's town or scum trying to get towncred if he's town. There's always a chance you are scumbuddies too with this attitude. So why are you townreading him? Let me adopt your logic for a moment: "Why are you scumreading Ika, silverwolf. Where did you scumread Ika huh?" By your logic, right now you would be scumreading Ika cause you are attacking my townread on him. But that's wrong! I can perfectly question someone's means of reading someone without having a read on that someone. Questioning the method is not the same as questioning the outcome. On January 06 2017 23:31 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 23:26 Calix wrote:On January 06 2017 21:29 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 19:56 KelsierSC wrote:On January 06 2017 12:51 B0stonSC wrote:
About to go do a re read through, because Onegu hasn't posted anything of note since the game started (by of note, I mean anything I took note on) On January 06 2017 13:11 B0stonSC wrote:
yeah Onegu seems suspicious, so
##vote Onegu
This is true of many people so why is onegu the vote? I guessed that's just his way of doing things, ie judging people by perceived usefulness/compliance. And 1gu really looks like he's doing the least, which sadly isn't alignment indicative. BTDT still has to post but when he does it's usually a lot. There's a townie simplicity to Bostons posts, but that's just a first impression, and of course it's just an early read. Still need a grasp of how much he is actually following the game given he claims to have read and reread it and even took notes. Just voting 1gu doesn't give much info. I don't like this post. Why are you answering for Boston? It's a simple question that he can answer by himself. And why explain your answer in enough depth that you even say why Boston might not have picked BTDT? (assuming that's why you brought up BTDT anyway) I also feel that your read on Boston does the over-explaining thing as well because you bring up all the minor things he has done so far. Yes I gave a read on a player while Kelsier was around to talk about him. Such scum. On January 07 2017 00:31 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2017 00:02 SilverWolf77 wrote:On January 06 2017 23:40 Vivax wrote:
I don't have a read on ika so far and I don't need to have one to question darthfoley's read on him. No, you don't have to have a read on ika to say darthfoley's read on him is bad. I agree. The problem I have is the way you are doing it. Basically, ika no longer has to answer the suspicion because you interjected. Not only interjected but also defended ika by asking if darthfoley has his meta and implying that ika's questions are not scummy. You have a right to have an opinion on ika's questioning but the way you are doing it is very protective of ika. If you have no read of ika, this doesn't make much sense. I guess my gut just pinged hard off of that and also I think you interjected when someone was questioning someone else-I think Calix pointed this out already. Anyway, from my experience, scum like to do this because they get towncred for defending people they know are town. It's way too early to have a super strong opinion on someone's alignment, unless you know that alignment. Doesn't mean we can't have reads. We certainly can. But when I would of preferred to see ika answer the suspicion and engage with darth rather than have you interject. Sorry if I'm not explaining myself well. I'm tired and rambling right now. Be back in a little bit. Ika has to answer the suspicion if you, or anyone else for that matter, make him feel like he has to. In your opinion I made him feel like he didn't have to cause I defended him by suspecting darthfoley. Well, I can and will voice my suspicion when I think I found something worthwhile and darthfoley can take his time to reply whenever he wants, just as ika can answer to darthfoley whenever he wants. So I don't think I hindered the scumhunting of someone in any way by doing my own. If you really think that darthfoley's line of thought was so worth it and cause of me, a hypothetical mafia ika got off the hook, you can still always ask ika about it yourself. But you rather saw it as important to reprimand me/call me mafia, not sure what it is yet. On January 07 2017 01:17 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2017 01:12 SilverWolf77 wrote:
No, it isn't that I think darthfoley's suspicion of ika is worth it.
It's more that I saw you defending two people who you don't have a townread on. By saying B0stonSC just does things that way is a defense of him before he can even answer the question directed at him. You asking darth if he has ika's meta looked like a defense of ika.
Also, In response to my suspicion, you deflected or tried to discredit rather than just explaining yourself further.
That said, giving your own opinion of B0stonSC's opening or your own opinion of darth's read on ika as fake is totally valid and not scummy to me at all.
There's a difference between discrediting and trying to expose why your reasoning is wrong. You also said I was sarcastic when I wasn't at all, I just emulated your logic. On January 07 2017 01:41 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2017 01:26 Calix wrote:I'm starting to relate to those people who always whine about how hard Calix vs NU is to read because I find the ika/ SW/ Vivax thing hard to follow. I'm still not sure I actually understand the full details of the case against Vivax. The one point that I really relate to is how Vivax deflects questions about his talking-for-people tendency with snark and doesn't answer them. When I asked about why he was answering for Boston he did that and he did it later on with SW. I see no purpose in speaking for other people on simple questions like "why did you vote for Onegu" and reads like busywork. I want an explanation for that because that's scummy as hell and he didn't counter that point off-the-cuff. + Show Spoiler [Evidence and shit] +On January 06 2017 23:31 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 23:26 Calix wrote:On January 06 2017 21:29 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 19:56 KelsierSC wrote:On January 06 2017 12:51 B0stonSC wrote:
About to go do a re read through, because Onegu hasn't posted anything of note since the game started (by of note, I mean anything I took note on) On January 06 2017 13:11 B0stonSC wrote:
yeah Onegu seems suspicious, so
##vote Onegu
This is true of many people so why is onegu the vote? I guessed that's just his way of doing things, ie judging people by perceived usefulness/compliance. And 1gu really looks like he's doing the least, which sadly isn't alignment indicative. BTDT still has to post but when he does it's usually a lot. There's a townie simplicity to Bostons posts, but that's just a first impression, and of course it's just an early read. Still need a grasp of how much he is actually following the game given he claims to have read and reread it and even took notes. Just voting 1gu doesn't give much info. I don't like this post. Why are you answering for Boston? It's a simple question that he can answer by himself. And why explain your answer in enough depth that you even say why Boston might not have picked BTDT? (assuming that's why you brought up BTDT anyway) I also feel that your read on Boston does the over-explaining thing as well because you bring up all the minor things he has done so far. Yes I gave a read on a player while Kelsier was around to talk about him. Such scum. On January 06 2017 23:25 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 23:18 SilverWolf77 wrote:On January 06 2017 16:14 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:48 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 15:42 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:39 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 15:30 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:21 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 14:13 Vivax wrote:Is there anyone here who actually didn't play mafia before, or just very very little? On January 06 2017 11:31 darthfoley wrote:
[quote]
I actually feel weird about ika. Asked the kinda useless questionnaire and has basically been bs'ing a bit since. Not a real read but I find his opening a little off This read looks forced. I mean, you will say it isn't a read I know, but we both know it kind of is. And to me it just looks like you were looking for someone to make look guilty easily to fulfill Calix demand. Fend yourself, Foley. Forced how? Of course it's a read, but it's a D1 read 3 hours in. Forgive me if i'm not wow'd by someone asking nebulous or irrelevant questions about self meta that could easily be bullshitted. His play since is more trolly than I prefer, except regarding the point on Calix's scum play which is actually useful. Why not 1gu then? I've never seen Onegu play a non trolly game. It's within his meta either way, especially D1 lol But you have seen ikas meta yes? No, I don't know the guy Idk why you are eager to suspect someone for not being super serious at the beginning of the game, when clearly you don't even know how he usually plays. So that's why I'm saying your read is forced, it looked like you found something worth smearing for the sake of itself cause calix asked you to dig something up. WTF? Why is ika hard town to you? And don't say he's not cuz no way would you defend him like this unless you are town who believes he's town or scum trying to get towncred if he's town. There's always a chance you are scumbuddies too with this attitude. So why are you townreading him? Let me adopt your logic for a moment: "Why are you scumreading Ika, silverwolf. Where did you scumread Ika huh?" By your logic, right now you would be scumreading Ika cause you are attacking my townread on him. But that's wrong! I can perfectly question someone's means of reading someone without having a read on that someone. Questioning the method is not the same as questioning the outcome. I didn't get the impression that Vivax made his posts against DF with the intent to defend ika so making guesses about ika's alignment from Vivax's behaviour is questionable imo. However I think that SW makes good observations about the discrepancy between Vivax's read on ika (or lack of it) and what he says regarding him. I feel like if you interact or talk about a player a lot, you should have a good reason if you end up with a null/ no read on them. I liked ika's reactions to Vivax a lot. Answering with snark? You didn't ask anything. You claimed that I answered for Boston. I clarified that I gave a read on him. This game is about trying to make oneself correctly readable as town. You could as well demand that anyone simply shuts up when he isn't asked about something specific. But this is a game of information not the military, and I can give reads on whoever I please without being asked. On January 07 2017 01:54 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2017 01:52 Calix wrote:On January 07 2017 01:48 Vivax wrote:
So far you and Ika both asked such loaded questions that already imply I did something I did not. Obviously you're not going to get a nice answer to "Do you always beat your wife" type of questions. Your point? If you ask shitty questions you get shitty answers On January 07 2017 02:01 Vivax wrote:
Should be a when*
Anyway.
I keep thinking it'd be cool if more people posted, this feels a lot like a clash between overeager townies which is what happens 80 % of the time in the average game of mafia.
I also feel a bit troubled by ika and Silver actually living together cause
they had little interaction at the start of the game, but then it wore off quickly.
And Silver was very eager to jump at me for apparently defending ika.
And ika brought ahead a similar argument where he said I was too sure of him being town.
Point being, they might have a common playstyle being a couple or whatever, and I don't really know how that plays out since they're new here. It did kinda feel concertated how they were bombarding me with accusations back there.
But it's just feels On January 07 2017 03:03 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2017 02:46 darthfoley wrote:On January 07 2017 02:36 Vivax wrote:On January 07 2017 02:33 darthfoley wrote:
I'd be interested to see Kelsier's take on this Vivax/ika/SW thing when he gets a chance.
And more from Grack And yours? Of the three of you, I liked SW's responses the best. They seem natural and attentive without being scared of making conclusions. I am town reading her I understand your initial questioning, but I don't like how you play semantics over the B0ston thing. Your first sentence is clearly more than a read imo On January 06 2017 21:29 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 19:56 KelsierSC wrote:On January 06 2017 12:51 B0stonSC wrote:
About to go do a re read through, because Onegu hasn't posted anything of note since the game started (by of note, I mean anything I took note on) On January 06 2017 13:11 B0stonSC wrote:
yeah Onegu seems suspicious, so
##vote Onegu
This is true of many people so why is onegu the vote? I guessed that's just his way of doing things, ie judging people by perceived usefulness/compliance. And 1gu really looks like he's doing the least, which sadly isn't alignment indicative. BTDT still has to post but when he does it's usually a lot. There's a townie simplicity to Bostons posts, but that's just a first impression, and of course it's just an early read. Still need a grasp of how much he is actually following the game given he claims to have read and reread it and even took notes. Just voting 1gu doesn't give much info. It's understandable why people think you're answering for him, indirectly with the "I guess" qualifier. So I don't like that you deflected and then kind of pulled an "OMGUS, the questions I got weren't up to my liking!" Yea I checked his answers to the questionnaire and figured he was a newbie. And as newbie one tends to strictly pay attention to how useful or compliant a person looks, so only obvious he'd go after 1gu. That's where my guess comes from. The burden of proof's on you ika. Show me the town case.
Wait what am I looking at? You quoted Vivax a bunch of times? Is this your explanation as to why you think he's town? Why are you so stubborn to keep this read a secret. If it's as solid as you seem to believe then you'll win people to your case and advance the game.
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On January 07 2017 11:54 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2017 11:53 Kmatt wrote:
And now that I'm caught up:
Grack, I don't know what you're trying to do here, but you're better off not. You can't just say "oh this guy is town" and then refuse to explain the read in detail. As counter-intuitive as it sounds, that's more scummy than having a scumread you won't elaborate.
If it makes you feel better I'm not going to write such a post on ika or Silverwolf either. Even though I'm pretty sure they both are as well.
No...? It really doesn't. If anything you're looking scummier by the minute. What is the endgame here? What happens when people want to vote on your townreads and vice versa? You don't stand to gain anything through this backwards logic.
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On January 07 2017 11:57 Kmatt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2017 11:54 Grackaroni wrote:On January 07 2017 11:53 Kmatt wrote:
And now that I'm caught up:
Grack, I don't know what you're trying to do here, but you're better off not. You can't just say "oh this guy is town" and then refuse to explain the read in detail. As counter-intuitive as it sounds, that's more scummy than having a scumread you won't elaborate.
If it makes you feel better I'm not going to write such a post on ika or Silverwolf either. Even though I'm pretty sure they both are as well. No...? It really doesn't. If anything you're looking scummier by the minute. What is the endgame here? What happens when people want to vote on your townreads and vice versa? You don't stand to gain anything through this backwards logic.
If people want to lynch Vivax at the end of the day I will refute whatever arguments they put forth for him being scum and put forward my own arguments for whoever I want to lynch.
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On January 07 2017 11:56 Kmatt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2017 11:52 Grackaroni wrote:+ Show Spoiler +The following posts are Grack approved posts for reasons that Grackaroni has specified in earlier posts.
On January 06 2017 09:19 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 09:16 KelsierSC wrote:
well this start is shit tier, where dem boyz at? Seen a bunch of people flip mafia who complained about the state of the game at the start of the game, in my lifetime. Tempts me to find out if this is the case again. On January 06 2017 14:13 Vivax wrote:Is there anyone here who actually didn't play mafia before, or just very very little? Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 11:31 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 10:43 Calix wrote:
I sense I'll have an aneurysm at this rate.
DF, you seem sensible. What else have you noticed so far? I actually feel weird about ika. Asked the kinda useless questionnaire and has basically been bs'ing a bit since. Not a real read but I find his opening a little off This read looks forced. I mean, you will say it isn't a read I know, but we both know it kind of is. And to me it just looks like you were looking for someone to make look guilty easily to fulfill Calix demand. Fend yourself, Foley. On January 06 2017 17:30 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 16:25 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 16:14 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:48 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 15:42 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:39 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 15:30 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:21 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 14:13 Vivax wrote:Is there anyone here who actually didn't play mafia before, or just very very little? On January 06 2017 11:31 darthfoley wrote:
[quote]
I actually feel weird about ika. Asked the kinda useless questionnaire and has basically been bs'ing a bit since. Not a real read but I find his opening a little off This read looks forced. I mean, you will say it isn't a read I know, but we both know it kind of is. And to me it just looks like you were looking for someone to make look guilty easily to fulfill Calix demand. Fend yourself, Foley. Forced how? Of course it's a read, but it's a D1 read 3 hours in. Forgive me if i'm not wow'd by someone asking nebulous or irrelevant questions about self meta that could easily be bullshitted. His play since is more trolly than I prefer, except regarding the point on Calix's scum play which is actually useful. Why not 1gu then? I've never seen Onegu play a non trolly game. It's within his meta either way, especially D1 lol But you have seen ikas meta yes? No, I don't know the guy Idk why you are eager to suspect someone for not being super serious at the beginning of the game, when clearly you don't even know how he usually plays. So that's why I'm saying your read is forced, it looked like you found something worth smearing for the sake of itself cause calix asked you to dig something up. She asked me if I had picked up on anything else and that was the only thing I had found worth mentioning. I think it's hardly accurate to say that I'm trying to smear the dude. It's refreshing to assess someone's motives without knowing meta. You're less likely to talk yourself out of gut reads. No idea why you find that problematic. You're acting like I'm on a crusade against the guy lol. It's always easy to call out someone for being trolly or not contributive. And I don't see how that applies to him in particular. Even for yourself it's such a weak argument that you call it not a real read. So I find it unusual that asked whether you saw something worth picking up, you do it over something that you didn't feel strongly about, and for something that is imo NAI (not alignment indicative for who doesn't know) at this stage. So one possibility is you were simply being casual as town and throwing that out there even though for your play it will have little impact as you don't want to pursue that further. Then again that would mean that your answer to Calix "did you see something worthwhile" still wasn't answered and that you didn't find an avenue for finding scum there. Or you are scum with the pressure that comes to post something looking useful well knowing that as long as you post something that you don't have to commit to, you're fine. And that post also falls in this category, too. Now from this ambiguity why do I think that it makes you more likely mafia? Scum that doesn't have a trolly town meta by default will be under pressure to look useful. Your filter apart from one or two posts seems like you are trying to look useful. That post isn't something I believe you think to be useful. Otherwise tell me why you believe it's useful. Achieves something for yourself besides satisfying a request that you would grant only to enhance your standing with the town, which is mafia play. On January 06 2017 21:29 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 19:56 KelsierSC wrote:On January 06 2017 12:51 B0stonSC wrote:
About to go do a re read through, because Onegu hasn't posted anything of note since the game started (by of note, I mean anything I took note on) On January 06 2017 13:11 B0stonSC wrote:
yeah Onegu seems suspicious, so
##vote Onegu
This is true of many people so why is onegu the vote? I guessed that's just his way of doing things, ie judging people by perceived usefulness/compliance. And 1gu really looks like he's doing the least, which sadly isn't alignment indicative. BTDT still has to post but when he does it's usually a lot. There's a townie simplicity to Bostons posts, but that's just a first impression, and of course it's just an early read. Still need a grasp of how much he is actually following the game given he claims to have read and reread it and even took notes. Just voting 1gu doesn't give much info. On January 06 2017 23:25 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 23:18 SilverWolf77 wrote:On January 06 2017 16:14 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:48 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 15:42 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:39 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 15:30 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:21 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 14:13 Vivax wrote:Is there anyone here who actually didn't play mafia before, or just very very little? On January 06 2017 11:31 darthfoley wrote:
[quote]
I actually feel weird about ika. Asked the kinda useless questionnaire and has basically been bs'ing a bit since. Not a real read but I find his opening a little off This read looks forced. I mean, you will say it isn't a read I know, but we both know it kind of is. And to me it just looks like you were looking for someone to make look guilty easily to fulfill Calix demand. Fend yourself, Foley. Forced how? Of course it's a read, but it's a D1 read 3 hours in. Forgive me if i'm not wow'd by someone asking nebulous or irrelevant questions about self meta that could easily be bullshitted. His play since is more trolly than I prefer, except regarding the point on Calix's scum play which is actually useful. Why not 1gu then? I've never seen Onegu play a non trolly game. It's within his meta either way, especially D1 lol But you have seen ikas meta yes? No, I don't know the guy Idk why you are eager to suspect someone for not being super serious at the beginning of the game, when clearly you don't even know how he usually plays. So that's why I'm saying your read is forced, it looked like you found something worth smearing for the sake of itself cause calix asked you to dig something up. WTF? Why is ika hard town to you? And don't say he's not cuz no way would you defend him like this unless you are town who believes he's town or scum trying to get towncred if he's town. There's always a chance you are scumbuddies too with this attitude. So why are you townreading him? Let me adopt your logic for a moment: "Why are you scumreading Ika, silverwolf. Where did you scumread Ika huh?" By your logic, right now you would be scumreading Ika cause you are attacking my townread on him. But that's wrong! I can perfectly question someone's means of reading someone without having a read on that someone. Questioning the method is not the same as questioning the outcome. On January 06 2017 23:31 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 23:26 Calix wrote:On January 06 2017 21:29 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 19:56 KelsierSC wrote:On January 06 2017 12:51 B0stonSC wrote:
About to go do a re read through, because Onegu hasn't posted anything of note since the game started (by of note, I mean anything I took note on) On January 06 2017 13:11 B0stonSC wrote:
yeah Onegu seems suspicious, so
##vote Onegu
This is true of many people so why is onegu the vote? I guessed that's just his way of doing things, ie judging people by perceived usefulness/compliance. And 1gu really looks like he's doing the least, which sadly isn't alignment indicative. BTDT still has to post but when he does it's usually a lot. There's a townie simplicity to Bostons posts, but that's just a first impression, and of course it's just an early read. Still need a grasp of how much he is actually following the game given he claims to have read and reread it and even took notes. Just voting 1gu doesn't give much info. I don't like this post. Why are you answering for Boston? It's a simple question that he can answer by himself. And why explain your answer in enough depth that you even say why Boston might not have picked BTDT? (assuming that's why you brought up BTDT anyway) I also feel that your read on Boston does the over-explaining thing as well because you bring up all the minor things he has done so far. Yes I gave a read on a player while Kelsier was around to talk about him. Such scum. On January 07 2017 00:31 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2017 00:02 SilverWolf77 wrote:On January 06 2017 23:40 Vivax wrote:
I don't have a read on ika so far and I don't need to have one to question darthfoley's read on him. No, you don't have to have a read on ika to say darthfoley's read on him is bad. I agree. The problem I have is the way you are doing it. Basically, ika no longer has to answer the suspicion because you interjected. Not only interjected but also defended ika by asking if darthfoley has his meta and implying that ika's questions are not scummy. You have a right to have an opinion on ika's questioning but the way you are doing it is very protective of ika. If you have no read of ika, this doesn't make much sense. I guess my gut just pinged hard off of that and also I think you interjected when someone was questioning someone else-I think Calix pointed this out already. Anyway, from my experience, scum like to do this because they get towncred for defending people they know are town. It's way too early to have a super strong opinion on someone's alignment, unless you know that alignment. Doesn't mean we can't have reads. We certainly can. But when I would of preferred to see ika answer the suspicion and engage with darth rather than have you interject. Sorry if I'm not explaining myself well. I'm tired and rambling right now. Be back in a little bit. Ika has to answer the suspicion if you, or anyone else for that matter, make him feel like he has to. In your opinion I made him feel like he didn't have to cause I defended him by suspecting darthfoley. Well, I can and will voice my suspicion when I think I found something worthwhile and darthfoley can take his time to reply whenever he wants, just as ika can answer to darthfoley whenever he wants. So I don't think I hindered the scumhunting of someone in any way by doing my own. If you really think that darthfoley's line of thought was so worth it and cause of me, a hypothetical mafia ika got off the hook, you can still always ask ika about it yourself. But you rather saw it as important to reprimand me/call me mafia, not sure what it is yet. On January 07 2017 01:17 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2017 01:12 SilverWolf77 wrote:
No, it isn't that I think darthfoley's suspicion of ika is worth it.
It's more that I saw you defending two people who you don't have a townread on. By saying B0stonSC just does things that way is a defense of him before he can even answer the question directed at him. You asking darth if he has ika's meta looked like a defense of ika.
Also, In response to my suspicion, you deflected or tried to discredit rather than just explaining yourself further.
That said, giving your own opinion of B0stonSC's opening or your own opinion of darth's read on ika as fake is totally valid and not scummy to me at all.
There's a difference between discrediting and trying to expose why your reasoning is wrong. You also said I was sarcastic when I wasn't at all, I just emulated your logic. On January 07 2017 01:41 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2017 01:26 Calix wrote:I'm starting to relate to those people who always whine about how hard Calix vs NU is to read because I find the ika/ SW/ Vivax thing hard to follow. I'm still not sure I actually understand the full details of the case against Vivax. The one point that I really relate to is how Vivax deflects questions about his talking-for-people tendency with snark and doesn't answer them. When I asked about why he was answering for Boston he did that and he did it later on with SW. I see no purpose in speaking for other people on simple questions like "why did you vote for Onegu" and reads like busywork. I want an explanation for that because that's scummy as hell and he didn't counter that point off-the-cuff. + Show Spoiler [Evidence and shit] +On January 06 2017 23:31 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 23:26 Calix wrote:On January 06 2017 21:29 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 19:56 KelsierSC wrote:On January 06 2017 12:51 B0stonSC wrote:
About to go do a re read through, because Onegu hasn't posted anything of note since the game started (by of note, I mean anything I took note on) On January 06 2017 13:11 B0stonSC wrote:
yeah Onegu seems suspicious, so
##vote Onegu
This is true of many people so why is onegu the vote? I guessed that's just his way of doing things, ie judging people by perceived usefulness/compliance. And 1gu really looks like he's doing the least, which sadly isn't alignment indicative. BTDT still has to post but when he does it's usually a lot. There's a townie simplicity to Bostons posts, but that's just a first impression, and of course it's just an early read. Still need a grasp of how much he is actually following the game given he claims to have read and reread it and even took notes. Just voting 1gu doesn't give much info. I don't like this post. Why are you answering for Boston? It's a simple question that he can answer by himself. And why explain your answer in enough depth that you even say why Boston might not have picked BTDT? (assuming that's why you brought up BTDT anyway) I also feel that your read on Boston does the over-explaining thing as well because you bring up all the minor things he has done so far. Yes I gave a read on a player while Kelsier was around to talk about him. Such scum. On January 06 2017 23:25 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 23:18 SilverWolf77 wrote:On January 06 2017 16:14 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:48 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 15:42 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:39 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 15:30 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:21 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 14:13 Vivax wrote:Is there anyone here who actually didn't play mafia before, or just very very little? On January 06 2017 11:31 darthfoley wrote:
[quote]
I actually feel weird about ika. Asked the kinda useless questionnaire and has basically been bs'ing a bit since. Not a real read but I find his opening a little off This read looks forced. I mean, you will say it isn't a read I know, but we both know it kind of is. And to me it just looks like you were looking for someone to make look guilty easily to fulfill Calix demand. Fend yourself, Foley. Forced how? Of course it's a read, but it's a D1 read 3 hours in. Forgive me if i'm not wow'd by someone asking nebulous or irrelevant questions about self meta that could easily be bullshitted. His play since is more trolly than I prefer, except regarding the point on Calix's scum play which is actually useful. Why not 1gu then? I've never seen Onegu play a non trolly game. It's within his meta either way, especially D1 lol But you have seen ikas meta yes? No, I don't know the guy Idk why you are eager to suspect someone for not being super serious at the beginning of the game, when clearly you don't even know how he usually plays. So that's why I'm saying your read is forced, it looked like you found something worth smearing for the sake of itself cause calix asked you to dig something up. WTF? Why is ika hard town to you? And don't say he's not cuz no way would you defend him like this unless you are town who believes he's town or scum trying to get towncred if he's town. There's always a chance you are scumbuddies too with this attitude. So why are you townreading him? Let me adopt your logic for a moment: "Why are you scumreading Ika, silverwolf. Where did you scumread Ika huh?" By your logic, right now you would be scumreading Ika cause you are attacking my townread on him. But that's wrong! I can perfectly question someone's means of reading someone without having a read on that someone. Questioning the method is not the same as questioning the outcome. I didn't get the impression that Vivax made his posts against DF with the intent to defend ika so making guesses about ika's alignment from Vivax's behaviour is questionable imo. However I think that SW makes good observations about the discrepancy between Vivax's read on ika (or lack of it) and what he says regarding him. I feel like if you interact or talk about a player a lot, you should have a good reason if you end up with a null/ no read on them. I liked ika's reactions to Vivax a lot. Answering with snark? You didn't ask anything. You claimed that I answered for Boston. I clarified that I gave a read on him. This game is about trying to make oneself correctly readable as town. You could as well demand that anyone simply shuts up when he isn't asked about something specific. But this is a game of information not the military, and I can give reads on whoever I please without being asked. On January 07 2017 01:54 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2017 01:52 Calix wrote:On January 07 2017 01:48 Vivax wrote:
So far you and Ika both asked such loaded questions that already imply I did something I did not. Obviously you're not going to get a nice answer to "Do you always beat your wife" type of questions. Your point? If you ask shitty questions you get shitty answers On January 07 2017 02:01 Vivax wrote:
Should be a when*
Anyway.
I keep thinking it'd be cool if more people posted, this feels a lot like a clash between overeager townies which is what happens 80 % of the time in the average game of mafia.
I also feel a bit troubled by ika and Silver actually living together cause
they had little interaction at the start of the game, but then it wore off quickly.
And Silver was very eager to jump at me for apparently defending ika.
And ika brought ahead a similar argument where he said I was too sure of him being town.
Point being, they might have a common playstyle being a couple or whatever, and I don't really know how that plays out since they're new here. It did kinda feel concertated how they were bombarding me with accusations back there.
But it's just feels On January 07 2017 03:03 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2017 02:46 darthfoley wrote:On January 07 2017 02:36 Vivax wrote:On January 07 2017 02:33 darthfoley wrote:
I'd be interested to see Kelsier's take on this Vivax/ika/SW thing when he gets a chance.
And more from Grack And yours? Of the three of you, I liked SW's responses the best. They seem natural and attentive without being scared of making conclusions. I am town reading her I understand your initial questioning, but I don't like how you play semantics over the B0ston thing. Your first sentence is clearly more than a read imo On January 06 2017 21:29 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 19:56 KelsierSC wrote:On January 06 2017 12:51 B0stonSC wrote:
About to go do a re read through, because Onegu hasn't posted anything of note since the game started (by of note, I mean anything I took note on) On January 06 2017 13:11 B0stonSC wrote:
yeah Onegu seems suspicious, so
##vote Onegu
This is true of many people so why is onegu the vote? I guessed that's just his way of doing things, ie judging people by perceived usefulness/compliance. And 1gu really looks like he's doing the least, which sadly isn't alignment indicative. BTDT still has to post but when he does it's usually a lot. There's a townie simplicity to Bostons posts, but that's just a first impression, and of course it's just an early read. Still need a grasp of how much he is actually following the game given he claims to have read and reread it and even took notes. Just voting 1gu doesn't give much info. It's understandable why people think you're answering for him, indirectly with the "I guess" qualifier. So I don't like that you deflected and then kind of pulled an "OMGUS, the questions I got weren't up to my liking!" Yea I checked his answers to the questionnaire and figured he was a newbie. And as newbie one tends to strictly pay attention to how useful or compliant a person looks, so only obvious he'd go after 1gu. That's where my guess comes from. The burden of proof's on you ika. Show me the town case. Wait what am I looking at? You quoted Vivax a bunch of times? Is this your explanation as to why you think he's town? Why are you so stubborn to keep this read a secret. If it's as solid as you seem to believe then you'll win people to your case and advance the game.
Same, quoting the post without explaining it does no good. I mean i can easily just do the same to any player and call them town off it. So he has yet to prove anything really. Yes he quoted stuff but now why is it town what about it makes it townish, substance is needed.
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