Palmar's Purge: Crisis and Turmoil in Liquidia - Page 188

disformation

Germany8352 Posts

August 24 2016 20:25 GMT

#3741

On August 25 2016 03:21 kitaman27 wrote:

lol disfo I'm not talking about trfel there and trfel was not in the QT with me.

The quote there is in reference to HolyFlare.

HolyFlare, GB, and I all share a secondary win condition to get ourselves elected.

HF died on day one so I made a joke about whether or not we could get him elected as a dead man.

Besides, it's obviously not the mafia QT because GB has already flipped.

On August 16 2016 23:14 kitaman27 wrote:

Show nested quote +

lol I swear we always have really similar reads every game we play, but then are always are suspicious of each other at the same time XD

On August 17 2016 07:43 kitaman27 wrote:
lol those results XD

Makes sense to compile an american vote count for the sake of knowing what we are dealing with.

GB and chez should be as transparent as possible with their powers.....assuming they received any.

so it is not a trfel only thing.
But werent you just suggesting that the flips have been altered? Now you are 100% that GB is town.
Paranoia level rising.
Time for some filters

Tumblewood

Once had a problem with him over the QT stuff, but that was probably just me being paranoid. Didn't have much impact this game, but other than that I like his filter. Decent reads,
Scum rating: low
Questions @ Tumblewood:
You seem to to have TR on Rels or at least believe his 3P claim. Can you elaborate on that read?

Rels

Does nothing and claims 3P survivor when questioned about doing nothing. Does not directly claim, but needs a little push here, too. That was D2. Why no claim 3P survivor D1?
Bunch of bleh posts and sheeping the same wrong reads as everyone D2.
Suddenly starts playing D3 in the factory game.
OMGUSES on SL, but that kinda makes sense as survivor. Then there is this:

On August 24 2016 03:30 Rels wrote:

Show nested quote +

burning people to death is pretty cool

Which worries me a bit... could he be scum knowing that a lot of town will die and trying to win more here? On the other hand that also kinda makes sense as 3P survivor.
On the other hand holding the door makes no sense as a 3P survivor or scum for that matter.
Has a few reads/posts I kinda like D3 though.
Not sure if I want to trust him, we should make him use his RB for something D4.
Scum rating: medium

Luna

Pretty mehish lists D1. A few strange tinfoils about the game. I actually like those, kinda think it is hard to come up with such stuff as scum. E.g. space invasions, hillary being in the game etc. Him really not liking nukes also makes me more inclined to think he is town favoured. Transparent with his Soviet gains. Has a few "strange" posts, but I think that is NAI for him.
That being said, I don't think I am very good at reading this guy, so other opinions are greatly appreciated.
Though I am pretty confused about his role and powers. Like he seems to have a fuckton of gold, know stuff about the environment and was able to invade russia?
Scum rating: low-medium
Questions @ Luna:
Who of the town leaders is in your opinion most likely to be scum? Why?

Kurumi

Has some anti-american and revolutionist talk at the start of the game:

On August 17 2016 11:32 Kurumi wrote:

Show nested quote +

I hate Americans more than you do, mate, so take a chill gulp of vodka. How about a round of friendly blackjack, huh? We might have a revolution or two to talk over.

Page one of his filter has basically nothing. He has a fairly brash tone to him, slightly less like to be scum for that.
D3 he gets into a little argument with me, continuing with the brash tone. Also brings up a decent point about his actions:

On August 24 2016 00:37 Kurumi wrote:
so let me get this straight

you believe im mafia
and i shot a guy who was getting nuked
reason being?

explain it to me
in case you dont believe me, the post clearly says Onegu was strangled
guess what, I strangle people

I have a hard time figuring out how the stuck in space and (not) blowing up the moon stuff fits with the anti-american stuff he posted D1. He also never even once responds to the gulag break-in, break-out.

On August 18 2016 05:39 Damdred wrote:
A rogue kgb agent has just emailed me the footage of the breakout (which seems to be successful)

Shape was rescued by someone who was identified as dickbutt mcdick

Upon further studies it seems to be kurumi

Also not many reads and figuring out stuff.
Like it does not make incredible sense for him to be scum, but there are a lot of points that make it difficult for me to trust him.
Scum rating: Medium
Questions @ Kurumi:
Can you tell us more about the role?
WTF happend with the gulag break-in, break-out?
Current reads?

Mankita

See first part of this post for some recent stuff.
So. I am on page 3 of his filter and it is a lot of questions leading not far and mechanic/organization talk. Then this list appears (colors added by me):

On August 17 2016 11:13 kitaman27 wrote:
Haven't bothered with filter dives yet, but aside from maybe 1 afk straggler, the mafias are in here.

Onegu
prplhz
Artanis[Xp]
Lunaticman
Dandel Ion
Shapelog
GlowingBear
iamperfection
sicklucker
Meapak_Ziphh
Chezinu

I'll see if I can narrow this down a bit more and come up with a top 3 or something.

For some weird reason I have a feeling that this list does not contain a single scummer, but only town and 3P.

On August 17 2016 12:23 kitaman27 wrote:
We should probably use the Fox News power on Onegu.[...]

Suggests using Fox on Onegu.

On August 19 2016 07:50 kitaman27 wrote:
##I announce my candidacy for the Chancellor of Europe

I promise to be completely transparent with all my actions as Chancellor. If I'm able to share my election choices with the thread before choosing, I'll definitely do so. Otherwise I'll go with the most pro-town option like a lynch or public dt check.

I also get a bonus power if elected, similar to Obama's NSA quicktopic spy bonus power, so that would swell to obtain.

Vote for Kita ^_^

What was that bonus again? He never explained it. He was open with the choices and chose a pro town mechanic, but at this point he kinda had to, after seeing how much shit GB got for his choice.
Than a huge lot of D3 mechanics and organizing. He also came up with the kill list.
I am def. getting a lot of paranoia vibes here. We also know jack about kita's role. We only know that he has role that is German, but only from the QT.
A lot of his filter looks like doing stuff. But in the end his lists kinda come outta nowhere and it is hard to see how most of his reads evolve. Like I am not sure how he got from the previous read list I posted to:

On August 19 2016 06:39 kitaman27 wrote:
Here is where I'm at right now.

Really Town
Half the Sky
Koshi
Disformation
Tumblewood
kitaman27

Mostly Townie
Skynx
Damdred
Dandel Ion
Fecalfeast

No Clue
Kurumi
Stutters695
Trfel
Rels
sicklucker
Shapelog

Kinda scummy, but less so than group below
Artanis[Xp]
Lunaticman
Meapak_Ziphh

Probably Mafia
GlowingBear
iamperfection
prplhz
Chezinu

E.g. no clue how/why dandel moved from the scum to mostly town.
Yeah. There are a bunch of points that look real sketch here. It is a bit of tinfoil/paranoia. But I think town needs paranoia.
Kita suggesting that there is a janitor and we actually got scum is exactly trying to prevent that. It is pure mechanically WIFOM trying to prevent town from being to paranoid. But my reads flow like water.
Scum rating: High

Stutters

His filter looks super hard like 3P survivor. Like the only contribution in his filter is the thing with GB's birth certificate. Other than that he only agrees with Damdy on shooting GB and meekly agrees with Kita just after I post the QT thing. Interesting timing there. Ask yourself: what is he trying to achieve this game? Well, he is def. not solving anything here.
The bits about his role being as good dead: Scum will 100% never shoot him here, so who is he trying to convince that he should survive? Town obv...
Scum rating: High

Damdy

Wow. That filter is surprisingly lame. Damdy also didn't do the town thing he does when he is town and I instantly townread him for this game. Like he starts out with some decent stuff after being a bit late to the game into nothing.
Then he buys the info about the gulag break-in break-out:

But just doesn't go anywhere with it, don't think town damdy would just drop that like he did here.
Also while he was very suspicious of me at the start of the game, he changes his tone/attitude to me to buddy buddy real fast, after I get uni. townread.
No solving the game past D1 and I have no idea about his reads.

On August 21 2016 06:47 Damdred wrote:
I have selected GB as my target this day.

I would suggest one of Shape, Trfel, Prp

That is the only mention of Trfel in his filter. It was well after the ikea chase announcement. Was he trying to get town to waste kp on a dead man?
Also around to ##Get to safety but not to ##Hold the Door.
Also promises to read Arts filter, never does so. Though I do the not delivering thing as both alignments.
Scum rating: high
Questions @ Damdy:
Any reason you didn't press Kurumi about the gulag thing? What are your current reads like?

Tone is really town. Koshi has apparently some sort of check or insight on him. There were actually a few reads thrown in there.
Scum rating: low

Koshi

If supreme leader Koshi is scum we are supremely fucked anyway. Skipping this one. Really looking forward to his powers and updated reads.
Scum rating: nope

iamp

Well, okay the guy is def. not town and that shouldn't surprise anyone. Him bitching about there being no lynches a lot makes sense if that is his true wincon. He also had a decent, somewhat natural read on GB, after GB did that chaos thing. On the other hand that is basically his whole filter and he is pretty anti-town. Still think it makes slightly more sense for him to be 3P.
Scum rating: low-medium

SL, M_Z and Hats:
Will do those tomorrow, currently too tired to continue. Should maybe read Koshis filter for real, too. Will prolly not be around at deadline, about to fall over.

Conclusion:
Kitaman, Stutters, Damdred
How many scummers are in games of this size? 4 seems a bit meager. 5? 6? 7?
Maybe I am cutting FF too much slack here. Prolly some of my medium guys or the ones I haven't reread yet.

Damdred

15669 Posts

August 24 2016 20:35 GMT

#3742

Cause I'm just going to shoot kurumi this turn to finish my secondary objectives at this point.

I had to do stuff work related and art had already held the door by the time I got into the thread and theemtal image caused me to go bonkers in the best way possible.

Idk I had a lot going on this game and it's a caller game so I'm just enjoying the ride tbh, it's more fun that way.

Lunaticman

Sweden1097 Posts

August 24 2016 21:04 GMT

#3743

Kita damdred are next.

Best solve Ive seen so far at TL Dis.

sicklucker

Canada16987 Posts

August 24 2016 21:31 GMT

#3744

ya im ready to just yolo my nuke before town losses

sicklucker

Canada16987 Posts

August 24 2016 21:39 GMT

#3745

theres probably some small third party team too. with 3 or 4 mafia. the claimed third party like rels could be them. or it could just be 4 mafia and solo third partys

sicklucker

Canada16987 Posts

August 24 2016 21:42 GMT

#3746

there should be no town points ofr organising yesterday its really easy to do that as scum esp if your motivated to get 3 mislynches and win the game. I sure the hell was not motivated to do it as town

Palmar

Iceland22632 Posts

August 24 2016 21:55 GMT

#3747

daypost will be slightly late

Half the Sky

Germany9029 Posts

August 24 2016 21:59 GMT

#3748

This is my last post I'm allowed. I don't know (or quite frankly, really care) what mechanics Caller games hold, but I'm not giving up. If nothing else but for post-game cred...

I'm glad disformation got to the same scum team I was able to work out although I kinda got to Kitaman and Stutters slightly different than you did. Damdred, similar where he tried to get people to shoot Trfel, but once I re-read his filter and his filter in context I was like ewwwwwww......

##Mafia: kitaman27/Stutters/Damdred/Trfel/+1

Also IAMP's third party claim is likely true for reasons I will get into later - IAMP was pushed by 3/4 so they are unlikely of the same alignment.

With the significant number of town flips, Trfel's filter goes from a steaming pile of shit to the realisation that be might have helped us get a little closer to the actual mafia.

I am in a world of a five player mafia team, 4 of which we need to sort out.

(Disformation, to answer your question - for m28, I would expect 5 mafia, once you hit 30, you could get away with six. 29-player JOAT had six.)

Thinking through potential agendas, I am also in a world where 1-2 are active enough yet just under the radar, there's 1 player who is near universally townread, and there's 1 lurker.

I want to walk everyone through Trfel's filter and explain a few things.

Trfel has been virtually pushing townies all game (as has Damdred/Kita, but I'll get to that later).

In his list post he also brings up a huge list of scummy people - keeping his options open.

Post 2276/2657

On August 20 2016 03:19 Trfel wrote:
List of Suspicious People

Tumblewood + Show Spoiler +

Only focused on begging for money at the start of the game, and hasn't been doing anything since then. His activity and involvement have been greatly reduced at the same time that everyone is completely ignoring him.

Artanis + Show Spoiler +

http://puu.sh/m65Ss/2e73e123af.png

I forget how to actually make images appear, but whatever. The point is that much of the game is suspicious of Artanis, yet he has been barely caring at all, despite many people talking about actual reasons. He's just accepting it.

Shapelog + Show Spoiler +

I think he's very likely third party. He's been the most disinterested and uninvolved I've ever seen. I feel like he'd be more involved as both town and scum, since he's consistently shown that in the past. But his play feels purely reactionary and shows no motivation to actually do anything.

GlowingBear + Show Spoiler +

Vote manipulation in the election, and then choosing chaos. Then posted a bunch of useless info from random QTs. Feels like he used his NSA powers to try and compensate for his earlier actions without actually contributing.

sicklucker + Show Spoiler +

First he was defending Artanis, then attacking Artanis, then to the point of saying that if sicklucker dies, it means that Artanis is mafia and killed him, then defending Artanis again? And yet still using what he thought was (seemingly) a cop check on him?!?!!? All with zero reasoning the entire time...

Chezinu + Show Spoiler +

107% of the vote, and over Superbia. With zero explanation, zero scumhunting, zero involving the town.

On August 21 2016 03:16 Trfel wrote:
New List of Suspicious People

Tumblewood
Artanis
Skynx
Shapelog
GlowingBear
iamperfection
sicklucker
Chezinu

Can discuss reasons if necessary. Mostly the same as my previous list. Skynx added due to the QT, iamperfection added because of uninvolvement and claiming a notification. Reminds of of ritoky's play in Carol of the Bells where claiming a notification confirmed him as mafia.

Need to head out for a bit. Need to think about this Artanis lynch, the QT seems really condemning but his protesting feels much more like town!Artanis than mafia.

In a game with likely five mafia, Trfel has way more than this. This tells me he's keeping his options open to see where the wind blows.

And as I've said correctly before (spoiler)

+ Show Spoiler +

On August 17 2016 21:08 Half the Sky wrote:

Show nested quote +

Trfel is someone that I know spins behaviour to be mafia when he is exclusively mafia.

(1) Artanis had not been hiding the DGAF attitude so he didn't care that he was getting scumread for it, which is actually a towny trait
(2) The so called bounty hunter role (or the action of controlling someone's body) is a mechanic that (knowing Palmar) could be assigned to either alignment
(3) Onegu will "not care" what others think as town or scum (the latter example: see Outlaw).

So I really don't like that post either.

On August 17 2016 23:42 Half the Sky wrote:
This is where I am:

Not entirely sure/will need to be sussed out a bit more:
GlowingBear (some townie thought towards the end, though I am deliberately ignoring mechs here, some similar reads to mine)
Dandel Ion (meh)
Lunaticman (need to really see actual reads and not just surviving on mech discussion)
Grackaroni (originally was good but not remembering too many impactful posts from him more recently, falling under the radar?)
MZ (some of his reads I liked but more content would make me more confident on him)

The "dear vig, please take out the trash" pile:
Rels (pending catching up)
Stutters695
Kurumi
Shapelog
Fecalfeast

Possible scum
Trfel (it's somewhere in my filter)
sicklucker (where are the reads)
Chezinu (all he does is go on about his position, someone please shoot him, clearly he's not helping town even compared to Star Wars where you got some semblance he was trying to)

Scum reads
prplhz
Onegu (I make no distinction between anti-town third parties and scum)
IAP

I would say that vigis should target the bottom six players.

Trfel's mafia meta is taking things and spinning them to be mafia.

Finally Trfel (ref: Fullmetal Mafia is my most recent recollection) consistently keeps teammates out of the spotlight.

Trfel doesn't touch on Damdred or Rels at all. (Or Kurumi or Stutters695 or Fecalfeast) He brings up IAMP for uninvolvement....and fails to do the same for certain others.

(Note: Yes we brought up both the notifications but I want to focus on the "uninvolvement" part because it points to a double standard.)

Trfel also scumreads sicklucker for something sicklucker will do as both alignments. This makes me think there's a decent chance sicklucker might actually be town.

A similar pattern with Tumblewood, who I was townreading for independent reasons:

+ Show Spoiler +

On August 21 2016 05:06 Trfel wrote:

Show nested quote +

His involvement is purely self-seeking, and not town seeking. Initially, he was only involved to get money for his secondary win condition. Now, he's completely uninvolved (after presumably receiving money and not being suspected).

Again the MO of spinning something for something that doesn't make someone mafia.

Here's another thought: The fact that Trfel lists IAMP on this list does actually support that Trfel and IAMP aren't same alignment and that IAMP really is likely to be third party. Rels on the other hand had done zero up to that point and yet isn't mentioned here. Something to consider.

I have independent reasons to townread Kurumi so I will leave him out.

Contrast Trfel's approach with Artanis' (example)
+ Show Spoiler +

On August 17 2016 20:26 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
People that may be carpet bombed for afkness
Stutters695
Rels
Shapelog
Fecalfeast
sicklucker
Kurumi
Trfel?

People that may be carpet bombed because they stink of mafia
Onegu
prplhz
sicklucker
iamperfection

People that are in both lists
sicklucker

Preferred target acquired.

I was looking at both these people and Kita and Damdred and you can see similarities in how Trfel, Kita and Damdred try and push similar scummy townies but then leave out others. But I'll get to the other two later.

There are other "little things" that add up to a mafia Kita (NK WIFOM via Vivax, suggesting to lynch Trfel once it was known Trfel would die, with all the scummy townies we had this game, he had a very clean game, which is mafia meta similar to Peraonality 2) but goddamn this is my last post.

This is how Kita rolls. (And I'll explain a bit more...)

+ Show Spoiler +

On August 17 2016 11:13 kitaman27 wrote:
Haven't bothered with filter dives yet, but aside from maybe 1 afk straggler, the mafias are in here.

Onegu
prplhz
Artanis[Xp]
Lunaticman - current town read
Dandel Ion
Shapelog
GlowingBear
iamperfection
sicklucker
Meapak_Ziphh - also a town read
Chezinu

I'll see if I can narrow this down a bit more and come up with a top 3 or something.

On August 17 2016 23:53 kitaman27 wrote:

Show nested quote +

I would move GB and Luna down to one of the lower tiers and suggest the vig's focus on the scum reads, while using investigative roles on the trash pile, but this is a solid list overall.

Pay attention to that above quote - I have Trfel/Rels (???)/Stutters in my third and fourth categories and kita wants the vigis to shoot GB/Luna and the three scum reads I have (prplhz/Onegu/IAMP).

TLDR: Trfel's method of leaving his options open, keeping scum teammates out of the limelight (consistent with mafia meta) and spinning mafia-indicative reasoning make it fairly likely that sicklucker is town here. Similarly, Damdred, Rels, Stutters, Kurumi have an additional point for scrutiny on that end.

Stutters being left out by both him and Kita and Kita not wanting to burn 99% Stutters, makes me think he's it.

But Trfel approach is also similar to how Kitaman has proceeded this game.

(I think Fecalfeast is town and apparently Koshi had information that cleared him as town, he does not have a readily defined meta as he's been lazy as both alignments. I will still re-read his filter for context as I narrow things down. The same thing goes for Kurumi at this point.)

Bah, I wanted to post more but I will elaborate on everything next cycle if I'm still around.

Palmar

Iceland22632 Posts

August 24 2016 22:16 GMT

#3749

30 years later

The world has been at peace for 30 years. Everyone seems to get along nicely. Too bad you're all getting old and frail. Today, one of the heroes will be buried here in it's up to you to decide which one dies of old age. Use the voting thread to select who will suffer this tragedy

As the world has been destroyed outside of America, all players are now in America.

The day has not yet started, stand by for a few minutes

Palmar

Iceland22632 Posts

August 24 2016 22:20 GMT

#3750

Day 4 has started, enjoy your retirement

Half the Sky

Germany9029 Posts

August 24 2016 22:26 GMT

#3751

##vote Damdred

Will vote him or Kitaman, lemme make my last post a bit more readable before I'm out. Damned post restriction

Damdred

15669 Posts

August 24 2016 22:30 GMT

#3752

I've already put my kp in at this point, if it will work idk though.

Hts just jelly of my old lady charm now.

Koshi

Belgium38797 Posts

August 24 2016 22:32 GMT

#3753

I agree we should kill Damdred.

##vote Damdred

Koshi

Belgium38797 Posts

August 24 2016 22:32 GMT

#3754

##vote Damdred

Kurumi

Poland6130 Posts

August 24 2016 22:32 GMT

#3755

I was stripped from all but my one power.

disfo, I told you many times, I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE GULAG THING IS
I NEVER DID ANYTHING AGAINST SOVIET UNION AND WOULD NEVER
rant over

i have no idea what hts knows about me that makes her not want to kill me, but for sure it rubs me absolutely the wrong way
i ain't ya moleboy