On June 27 2016 02:49 Jean Valjean wrote:The following is actually a very well thought out post. I am completely removing Jealous from the table as a potential lynch candidate day 1. This doesn't of course mean he is a lock townread forever, but the thought process he shows here, while occasionally slightly flawed (I'll respond to specifics later in this post), means he's actually thinking about the game in a very strategic kind of way.
The reason I am responding to this post in detail is that I believe it is good form to respond to people who actually put thought into the way they play the game. I'm hoping to win Jealous over as an ally in the coming days.
Show nested quote +On June 27 2016 02:26 Jealous wrote:On June 27 2016 00:08 Jean Valjean wrote:On June 26 2016 23:59 Damdred wrote:
I explained it a little bit previously, if it was just activity I would probably give him another day.
Its mainly that one post describing the qt v art fight as town v town. Its his only contribution and it doesn't make sense to me coming from his position of not knowing art. And honestly art came off a little worse than qt in that exchange.
So not sure why he would think that it just feels like Tmi to me.
I actually kind of agree, he was specifically asked that and conjured up an answer that was surprisingly thought out given the fact that everything else in his filter has basically been him excusing himself from playing. Not necessarily the TMI part, but rather just the appearance of it.
Maybe the trick just to ask him...
Hey Jealous, what do you think of my spat with Artanis? And explain your thoughts on Tictock.
I was already typing this out as I was working through the thread, so I will use this as an answer:
Having read the past few pages that were largely Jean Vanjean pushing Artanis, playing petty games and platforming for presidency, I have to say that he has left a foul taste in my mouth. While I respect his use of language and mild tone, I have to say that he is trying too hard to push the notion that he is "smart" and that therefore the best choice for mayor. Scum can be smart too, and I think a smart scum would follow along the same lines that Jean is doing:
You are entirely correct. The point is, anyone running for presidency is going to need to make an impression on town. I decided that because I had more time than expected today, I would push for the spot (also, the other options mostly sucked). If I do not push the idea that I'm a strong candidate, there is no chance for me to succeed. I have no meta, no name recognition, nothing to go on except what I say and do this game. I needed, more than anyone else, to push myself ahead of the group.
The important part, and the part you must not miss, is that all this is true whatever my alignment is. Some people have overestimated me being town on this basis, and you seem to overestimate me being scum. The important part is you cannot find my alignment just based on this, you need to actually look at my reads and my insights, rather than my words and my platform, to deduce my alignment.
Show nested quote +On June 27 2016 02:26 Jealous wrote:
1. Lay relatively low at first and not draw much suspicion in either direction while the thread is in a tumultuous Day 1 state, Artanis fighting QT, lots of speculation going in every direction, etc.
Yes, but again, so would someone who is simply afk as town. I had real life obligations yesterday and was unable to participate much. I have had more time than expected today, which has been great.
Show nested quote +On June 27 2016 02:26 Jealous wrote:
2. a. Push a target that is already under pressure/suspicion from others using vague meta reads (paraphrasing what Artanis said, "If I had a dollar for every time someone scumread me for playing worse than they expect me to,").
b. Play word/mind games (and perhaps a little bit of fear tactics) to force that target to say things that Jean wants said from another mouth, giving him added external validity. "This is not incorrect, as mafia can never lynch me. My greatest strength in mafia is that I can beat people into submission with arguments and words." - Jean
c. Essentially bullying him into voting for him as president.
Yes, I'm good at arguing and I can push my ideas heavily when needed. But it is extremely difficult to do what I'm doing as mafia. I'm not saying it's impossible, it's just very difficult and I don't think many scum players are capable of doing it.
Also, the reason I tend to attack people based on some expectation of their play, is that it's a cleverly aggressive way to point out something they did wrong. If I put a person in a position with limited options, for example when I say Artanis is good enough to townread me and if he doesn't he must be mafia, it is more likely the person screws up. It's simply an interrogation tactic.
Artanis might still be mafia but I feel far less certain than before. I'm not a huge fan of him giving up because I know Artanis is a generally jolly and relaxed, but I guess it doesn't necessarily make him mafia. His mafia game is more trolly than resigned, and there is a very real chance his frustration with being pushed is actually real.
I don't know right now and I'm sort of waffling on lynching Artanis.
Show nested quote +On June 27 2016 02:26 Jealous wrote:
3. Build a stronger platform for a presidential candidacy than any that has been posted so far, using big words and nice formatting to please the eye and make the reader complacently agree with the validity of his statements, in what could be considered a "last push" because of the timing (12 hours before EoD as opposed to any time prior).
I simply do that for readability and transparency. I think, if anything, the conciseness of my posts should indicate that at least if I'm mafia, I'm not using the tactic of shitting up the thread with useless posts.
Show nested quote +On June 27 2016 02:26 Jealous wrote:
I find the fact that he has garnered a fair share of support and relatively little suspicion to be very alarming. Is everyone going for the textbook "he is active and pushing someone, so can't be scum?" I believe that can backfire terribly in a game such as this where that modus operandi would be an effective strategy for Mafia to get into a position of power and make the game much harder for Town to win.
There have been four people whose names have been tossed around/who have been voted for/have pushed for presidency, from what I've read so far (I still have to go back to the early pages). In most recent pages, GlowingBear has been making some weak pushes for it, going by the logic of "Why SHOULDN'T I be President?" as opposed to "Here is why I SHOULD be President," which I don't like either.
In short, I think that between those people (Superbia, Jean, GB, and one other person I am forgetting at the moment) there must be a scum. It is THE play of the game in this format, and for scum to sit back and allow Town to freely elect Town for both positions would be simply poor play. I find that to be less likely than scum being one of the power candidates right now.
I have support because I am far better than all the alternatives. No, I am not a player you can simply look at and your eyes are filled with a neon-green light. Due to the fact that I'm articulate, people tend to assume I am capable of better scumplay than I really am. But in general the simple solutions tend to be good, which is why in most people's mind, the simple solution that I'm trying in an extremely townie way, is that I'm town. I'm not saying you should not watch out for tryhard scum, it's just that you should also not forget what is most likely in a given situation.
I agree scum should not let town grab the power positions, but experience has taught me that for the most part, scum is extremely bad at pushing for these positions. I think it happens very rarely that mafia actually gets their candidate voted into power, it's just too much effort and very difficult to do.
EPT
