EPTWho Wants to be a Millionaire Cell Mini Mafia
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darthfoley
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i will also have to make sure i actually understand the order of actions | ||
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 I don't want to be mayor because i'm still figuring out how this game will work lol | ||
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On February 23 2016 08:03 ritoky wrote: This isn't really relevant to wanting to or being okay with going first. Why do you want your cell to go first? Also what do you think is a good cell order? I think A is a hard cell; Kuragari was low activity lynchbait in the only game I played with him; you're good and you've coached me so i'm wary of you for that reason, and I haven't played with SL before, but spec'd a game or two of his (no read on him). Cell B: I've played one game with scum!Shapelog and he was quite spammy; only game i've played with Damdred he was killed N1 because he was almost universally town read. Never played with OWS. Cell C: Played with Rels in Star Wars now that I think about it, I correctly town read him for most of the game until he was NK'd. LS replaced into that game and successfully made people correctly read him town pretty quickly, though people were reading AFK Onegu scum. In my one scum game I was trash, and I think I've been not lynch bait and halfway decent in my other games as town; i'm a pretty solid read for some people in this game. I don't agree with Damdred's analysis of cell C-- I don't think i'm lynch bait. Cell D: I've played a couple games with VA and I think I have a basic read on his play. He's one of the few people I feel "comfortable" reading (see Unoriginal + Star Wars games). Never played with FF or Breshke, so i'll keep an eye on them but meh for right now. I would rate this a harder cell. Cell E: Rather comfortable playing with Kush (3 games now I think, as scum team + both town). All I know about Vivax is that he got early scum read in PYP and from what you guys said, he's more afk as mafia(?). Don't know bum at all. I'm not really sure what strategy we use to determine cell order. I'm most wary of cells D and E in terms of people I don't know. | ||
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I was pretty much town read both games D1 when I was town/before I came out as blue. It wasn't the strongest read ever, but I never had that much pressure on me because my play was organic. Only reason my name came up later in Star Wars was because I was lazy town and wanted the game to finish. I've only played with LS for 1/2 of a game so I defer to other people's reads on him until I can formulate my own. I agree with ritoky that Rels comes across more town as the game goes along, from what i've seen. | ||
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On February 23 2016 09:52 Damdred wrote: Then in what order would you put the cells Darth? And are you toe reading rit? Anyone here? I've read over the thread again and read through you and ritoky's filter. I have a pretty strong TR on you right now. I like that you got down to business pretty early and explained your reasoning behind your cell order. I don't actually agree with it though-- after I've thought about the game format, I think cell C should be 2nd or 3rd, for reasons ritoky has already mentioned. (my order is below) I also am currently town reading ritoky, but as I've mentioned i'm always kinda hesitant with him because he coached me very well in my last game as town and I feel like i'm an easy pocket for him. Part of the reason why I TR him is because I think his progression on me so far comes from town!ritoky-- the one longish post I made wasn't particularly great in any way. It actually makes me think he's more town for raising questions about my play. (Not trying to buddy or pocket me). Personally i'm fine with either of you being mayor so far. Will probably hold my vote for a bit, but I like ritoky's cell order better than yours currently... so I am leaning to vote him. Right now my cell order would be D/E C A B. I'm more comfortable with D going first because I think I have a decent grasp of Kush's play, and others have a good grasp of Vivax. In terms of powers, I would consider using one on group D but I don't think it's wise to use either on my cell. I think using the other one on cell A, or perhaps E is also good. Why do you want your cell 4th and cell A 5th? | ||
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On February 23 2016 08:24 Breshke wrote: im kind of confused here though. If all the active people are put in the earlier phases won't that mean the later phases are just an afk party. I thought you would do it the other way around and put cells with the less active people earlier Why would mafia not want an AFK party near the end? Also, didn't particularly like Kush's response On February 23 2016 08:55 nnn_thekushmountains wrote: Inactive people in early cells is bad because there's not a lot of content to go off of While that's true, you're kinda just kicking the can down the road if you want to keep AFK people in longer. Wouldn't town benefit longer from having many active players left in longer? | ||
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Regarding cell D: do you have any reads on the three? Do you make anything of my post above about Breshke? | ||
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On February 23 2016 20:52 nnn_thekushmountains wrote: You seem to admit that there are pros and cons to it. What makes one benefit definitively better than the other? Why does it make me scum for valuing one over the other? I never said one was definitely better than the other, but I don't think I really mentioned any pros to your strategy, which is why I questioned you in the first place. Unless you consider kicking the can down the road to be a pro. I do however think that gambling that inactive/afk people early game are going to get helpful and active later in the game-- especially if their inactivity is what got their cells placed later-- is just that: a gamble. With active players (e.g. cells A and B) isn't it a safer play to leave them in the game longer simply because their activity will allow them to be town read/scum read easier and because they'll create good town discussion? From what I've thought about your strategy, it just seems like it would benefit mafia more than town to not have that many strong towns/active towns late game and rely on low activity players to win the game for town. Am I missing something? | ||
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On February 23 2016 23:34 Shapelog wrote: Totally Darth. Leave the Cell with the "Spammy Enigma" alive to create " good town discussion." I read a bit (did not bother looking at alignments btw) and kush did that last cell game (or one of them). I think we should spread them out tbh. Makes it a best of both worlds. (Theoretically speaking) Heavily active: Cell A, Cell B Weakly active: Cell C Weakly Afk: Cell D (could prob. be below.) Heavily Afk: Cell E Idk how to order it though. I sense some sarcasm lol. Tbf Shape, I have called you a spammy enigma, but I said cells A and B should go later because they could create good town discussion OR because they will probably be solidly read by late game. Why don't you know how to order it? Seems like you drew lots of conclusions from the cells. You say you like that Breshke doesn't want afk people last, but you town read Kush who has the exact opposite approach for cell order (actives first, afks later). Why? | ||
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I'm not sure why people are town reading FF. Most of his posts about other games or kinda useless. I found it kinda weird when he called Breshke out for talking actively about cell order pros/cons. On February 23 2016 09:24 Fecalfeast wrote: Oh so I'm in a cell with breshke. All his posts are pretty benign questions that don't talk about anyone, just about cell order. If he's so interested in cell order why is he so disinterested in mayor? Mostly setup talk so far actually so it's not enough to call him scum but I don't particularly like anything he's posted so far Posts he was referencing: + Show Spoiler + On February 23 2016 07:25 Breshke wrote: Should all would be mayors post what their cell order would be since that is really the only thing that would differentiate them? Just at a quick glance ritoky like say without reading anyone's posts what would you make the order? On February 23 2016 07:35 Breshke wrote: Rit is the assumption right that you want to put the "strong" players in the final cells and the weaker players in the early cells? Or is cell 4 more important than cell 5 because cell 5 you have like all the information to go off? On February 23 2016 08:24 Breshke wrote: im kind of confused here though. If all the active people are put in the earlier phases won't that mean the later phases are just an afk party. I thought you would do it the other way around and put cells with the less active people earlier I don't think any of these posts are bad, and they give me a towny vibe from Breshke. You don't have to be running for mayor to care about cell order. This sounds like someone trying to work through the strategy of cell order from town perspective. VA I am slightly scum reading right now... I liked Kush's reasoning behind his cell order and where to put easy/hard cells more than VA's argument, but I am not sure if that's alignment indicative yet. Seems like a mafia thing to want: planting the hard cells early so they just win a quick 3-0 or 3-1. VA's only real contribution so far is that on the off chance we get to cell 5 and the game is going, town will have a better chance of winning. I think Kush's approach of win now rather than later is much more town oriented. Think we should think about 50/50 here if the play doesn't pick up | ||
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On February 24 2016 07:02 LightningStrike wrote: Hmm Breshke and VA voted for off wagons. Very odd. Will check out their reasons for their votes when I get home. VA why did you vote for Kush mayor? | ||
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On February 25 2016 00:08 Rels wrote: Actually I don't understand this post at all. About FF, since "Most of his posts about other games or kinda useless" and his only relevant post (about Breshke) are bad, FF HAS to be scum right ? Yet he seems super unsure about that fact. I don't undersatnd the VA scumread. If the scumread was only: then OK, I would get it. But that shit is overexplained with stuff that is apparently "not alignment indicative yet". To me, it looks like DF is scum with Breshke, got shit on both FF and VA, and is waiting to see on which the 50/50 is going to fall. No, he doesn't HAVE to be scum. The reason I think 50/50 would be quite beneficial on this group is simply because all three of the players have been underwhelming. I don't think any of them have added useful town discussion, so I consider this cell a crap shoot with VA/FF feeling more scummy than Breshke. I'm unsure about FF right now because I have to accept the fact that only 1 out of 3 players in this meh scummy cell is scum. | ||
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Rels: FF => kinda useless, don't know. Hope he's chosen by 50/50 if he's town. Can you please explain how he's been "kinda useless" when i've been super scum read by you as "useless"? His filter is absolute ass. Also, please explain how the hell you concluded that VA has been "aggressively" posting his thoughts and reads? You mean his one page filter, or his scummy ideas about cell order? Or maybe THESE "aggressive" reads l0l On February 24 2016 04:53 VayneAuthority wrote: potential tinfoil is that one of damdred/ritoky is scum because surely at least one tried to obtain scum mayor? But I mean its not really THAT powerful to be mayor so meh. not really important Good to know that this stupid tin foil post is not really important, thanks! He also says early Damdred is posting 100% town but then includes him in a potential scum mayor tinfoil with ritoky. He should only be implying that ritoky would be scum!mayor because Damdred is town in his eyes. Also, he didn't even vote for the mayor candidate that he said was 100% town. How the hell do you town read this? On February 25 2016 00:27 VayneAuthority wrote: breshke scum my updated list is breshke, darthfoley, vivax, obi, SL Wow, what aggressive reads: he's scum reading two people in the first two cells that everyone seems to be scum reading (Breshke, now me apparently). How original. It'd be great for mafia to go up 2-0 These are shitty reads from town rels imo | ||
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It's not that I am dead set on VA scum or Bresh town. I was mainly pointing out what I found to be poorly explained reads with bad reasoning by Rels. Ritoky's read of the cell is a lot more thought out than Rels imo | ||
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On February 25 2016 03:42 VayneAuthority wrote: I work in an ENT office so i have very random internet access/downtime, so yea. but anyways darthfoley looks even worse now, might be able to go 2-0 here. Why do I look worse for saying, "I don't know why people are town reading FF after looking at his filter" I found and still find his filter super underwhelming. It was at max null for me. I also don't know why this doesn't make Rels look worse for you, considering he basically drew the same conclusion as me regarding FF--> kinda useless, null or scum lean. @Shapelog... Not sure what i'm supposed to say to you having a "weird" vibe from my #640 post. @Rels I still think your "VA is being aggressive" line is bullshit. Your explanation was basically just him throwing a few names out early. How is that aggressive when there's NO explanation? I guess Kush plays every game aggressive then because of his random scum list 1.1 1.2 lists. Aggressively implies that he's pushing his reads. He's done no pushing, and seems very happy with me being scum read, stating over and over how great it's going to be when "we go up 2-0" we = ??? The VA town I've played with in Unoriginal didn't do much D1 and came out with a blockbuster read post that completely read my scum play, with reasoning and all. He just seems more willing to go with the flow in this game, which isn't how he played last time. His play reminds me more of the Star Wars scum game I played with him. I find it ironic that i'm playing pretty much EXACTLY how I played Star Wars D1 last game and was universally (correctly) town read for it, but here all of a sudden everyone scum reads me. I was sort of a devil's advocate in Star Wars because I really didn't like the way the Palmar wagon was shaping up. It was basically one wagon with no alternative and everyone was jumping on; I feel similarly regarding Breshke and VA right now. Everyone scum reading the same person, especially in a game with 5!!!! scum, makes me suuuuper uneasy. @Shapelog Meta reading me in Newbie vs. this game is completely different. This is themed, and I'm playing with much better and more experienced players. I am playing a similar game compared to Star Wars: I am willing to sheep people who are better at the game and I have read town, but I am also willing to point out logical inconsistencies and uneasy wagons when I see them. Maybe Breshke is scum who has just gone AFK or whatever and people are trying to jump on him and get town cred, but it makes no sense for scum!darthfoley to be the only one willing to defend/challenge conventional wisdom. | ||
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On February 25 2016 03:09 LightningStrike wrote: Sorry I haven't posted much I had to do a exam online and couldn't spend time at all on other sites during the time. Darth is going after Rels. I liking Rels more than Darth even more from their interactions with each other. Once VA, FF, and Breshke are around I can try to talk to them so I can get some better formed reads on their Cells(I got Breshke null leaning town but not by much, FF prob town, VA null). why do you like Rels > me when your reads line up more with mine than his? | ||
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On February 25 2016 04:58 VayneAuthority wrote: you look worse for defending breshke and I now know 100% that breshke is scum, simple as that. Thats why you now look worse. dunno what tangent you were even going off on Okay, let's accept your premise that breshke is 100% scum. Why does my defense of him make me scum? You literally played with me last game and I did the same thing with Palmar when I was town. Not seeing why you are so attached with this being alignment indicative | ||
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On February 25 2016 03:09 LightningStrike wrote: Sorry I haven't posted much I had to do a exam online and couldn't spend time at all on other sites during the time. Darth is going after Rels. I liking Rels more than Darth even more from their interactions with each other. Once VA, FF, and Breshke are around I can try to talk to them so I can get some better formed reads on their Cells(I got Breshke null leaning town but not by much, FF prob town, VA null). I actually wanna quote this again because I really don't like it darth is going after rels --> rels went after me first, but either way, it makes sense that I am going after him considering I know that either you or rels is mafia. I like rels more than darth "even more" from their interactions with each other --> why? but okay, fair enough reads: breshke null leaning town, ff town, VA null (at time of post) rels reads: VA town, ff null, breshke scum darth reads: breshke null leaning town, (before flip) ff kinda scum, VA nullish scum Idk why he's liking Rels more when my reads line up more with his reads; also, don't know why he makes it sound like it's a bad thing that cell mates are after each other. | ||
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On February 25 2016 05:15 VayneAuthority wrote: its not coincidence that all the people i have as scum are voting me, its because they are scum lol apparently this is the only game in mafia history where all 5 scum decide in their QT to vote for the same extremely unpopular off wagon | ||
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On February 25 2016 05:22 bumatlarge wrote: @darth, people not explaining the "why" to their opinions seems to be the theme of this game. well i think i've explained why I think things relatively thoroughly so far. Do you want clarification on something? Also @VA, people weren't really scum reading me in a serious way until I started to defend Breshke. From a mafia POV, what's the point of sticking your neck out for a cell that is almost certainly going to get 50/50'd if your scum partner is the heavily scum read person in it? Does this game remind you at all of my scum play in Unoriginal? I'd say it's about as different as you could be. | ||
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On February 25 2016 05:23 nnn_thekushmountains wrote: Darth, I don't think it makes you scum, but I find your reasoning for voting vayne very weak. So what if he disagrees with me on cell order. I don't think scum ever try to push for a certain mechanical decision beceause to benefit the scumteam. They're first priority is to look town so they will push stuff that they think is pro town. Much of my suspicion of VA comes from Rels really bad VA town read, which I've already gone over. I know either Rels or LS is mafia, and it is especially concerning when someone I know is good town has illogical reads. As I mentioned earlier, I think VA could be town for something along the line's of ritoky's reasoning, but not Rels. | ||
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To switch gears a bit, your post implies that you can't be convinced that LS is mafia, why? | ||
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On February 25 2016 05:31 Vivax wrote: Why would Rels TR a town VA then, cause that would mean that he's bussing Bresh this very moment. Because if Rels is town and we just disagree on what "aggressive" play is, and LS is mafia, it makes more sense. My cell has a third person people seem to be forgetting | ||
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in my cell, I know Rels or LS is mafia. I have already talked about why I didn't like Rels's analysis of cells D and C, which after a long period of AFK seems kinda like scum catching up. I didn't like his reasoning, but towns often see the game in different perspectives. Basically, while I disagree with Rels's methodology, our disagreement does not necessarily mean he is mafia. If you're asking why I think Rels's VA read wasn't good, just look at my filter. He described his play as aggressive, implying he had been pushing leads and stuff. I think it's quite clear that it's either the wrong adjective to use, or a false description. ------- I do however, find it odd that LS was kinda universally town read D1, and has been pretty hands off since, during the cell D discussion AND the arguments between me and Rels. After all, he knows one of us is mafia (if he's town) and would be much more invested in us. Look at my post above; I don't think that post comes from LS who's been following the game or particularly cares which one of us eventually ends up being scum read, because in this scenario, Rels and I are both town and mafia gets the +1 regardless. | ||
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On February 25 2016 05:37 ritoky wrote: @darth why you ask about this if you not care to follow up btw? Sorry i've been busy responding to like 4 people questioning me. Are you suggesting that Rels's town reads were decently extensive before the 50/50 and mine weren't? | ||
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On February 25 2016 06:31 LightningStrike wrote: I might be a bit bias but I fell his thought process was more in line with town Rels that I had played with. Also him getting emotional towards you pretty much confirmed my read on him. so you think i'm scum? | ||
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On February 25 2016 05:51 Vivax wrote: Yea but we got here from your post saying that Vayne was the guy you suspected cause of Rels read on him, which isn't adressed at all still and impossible to understand, so the bollocks meter is slowly but steadily rising. I've quoted where I think VA's posts have been lackluster and scummy. I'm saying it is a mix of the two, but Rels being in my cell + having imo a really bad description of VA's play made me very skeptical | ||
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On February 25 2016 05:49 ritoky wrote: no i am suggesting that if mafia knows i am going to 50/50 that posting significant reads on a cell where some1 is about to be green checked is not exactly a thing to be doing cuz you can look real dumb real quick. but mostly what i am suggesting is that rels having stronger opinions on everyone else except the people in his cell is suspect because as a town who knows his cell is guaranteed to go, those 2 players should be his strongest opinions or at least equally as strong. regarding the first part of your post: who fits the description of people not wanting to commit to a 50/50 cell read? secondly, I agree that the discussion regarding our cell has been lackluster; neither Rels nor LS seemed particularly interested in discussing my cell in depth until I pushed Rels, and LS's response to my question was lackluster imo. On February 25 2016 06:31 LightningStrike wrote: I might be a bit bias but I fell his thought process was more in line with town Rels that I had played with. Also him getting emotional towards you pretty much confirmed my read on him. I also didn't like the random OMGUS out of nowhere on FF-- the only confirmed town in the game. Seems like a safe person to OMGUS because you don't have to commit to a scumread on the person. Something about it just seems off. He also is kind of overexplaining why he's having trouble reading the cell imo, for example On February 25 2016 07:08 LightningStrike wrote: Here the deal with me Vivax: Idk who I want to vote out of Breshke and VA. VA I never learned how to read properly because I only played with a grand total of 3 games together. Game 1 I thought he was scum and lynched him when he was town. Game 2 I ignored him for the most part if I remember correctly. Game 3 I had no idea on VA but he got confirmed as scum by our Tracker because VA did visit someone as a roleblocker. He then claimed to be a doctor and tried to save Marv twice which was impossible because doctors couldn't save the same target twice in a row. Breshke on the other hand I can see why some people called him scum but on the other hand I had seen him post some similar posts as town. This discussion of the history of LS and VA in games together is super pointless and filler Can someone currently townreading Rels or LS not in my cell explain it to me? I think they've both done scummy stuff | ||
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It just seems like LS keeps giving himself outs with both cell D and our cell (c) | ||
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Rels I accidentally looked at the mayor count vote instead of the VA/Breshke vote. My point is still valid and idk why accidentally writing 8 instead of 6 makes me confirmed scum. I later explained my logic after that post Rels. I really don't know why you guys think I would choose my hill to die on D1 defending my completely afk scum teammate when I could just bus him for town points like probably the rest of mafia are doing right now. i t m a k e s n o s e n s e | ||
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##Unvote ##Vote:Breshke | ||
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On February 26 2016 02:15 nnn_thekushmountains wrote: The ugh at the end indicates frustration right? Why are you frustrated over an easy scum lynch? Yea i'm frustrated. Because I spent half of my cycle wasting my breath defending someone who has turned out to be mega obvious mafia, while getting almost universally wrongly scum read for it. It's great if we successfully used our 50/50 and go up 1:0, but town would be in an amazing decision if we go up 2:0 after my cell and if I can't change people's minds, that won't happen. Can't remember who said it, but I endorse using the audience power for my group too unless there's some obvious reason i'm missing. Going up 2:0 should basically ensure a town win. | ||
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Anyways, what does everyone think about using the audience on my cell after we get the 99% Breshke scum flip? | ||
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I even rechecked my role PM and I am indeed Town | ||
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Breshke is read scum by people Everyone knows Ritoky will likely use 50/50 on the cell I decide to go super out of my way to reverse buss Breshke while my three other mafia teammates buss him I put a huge target on my back Breshke goes AFK Everyone scum reads me Breshke gets killed, town up 1:0 I get killed, town up 2:0 like this is really unlikely and super super dumb mafia play | ||
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On February 26 2016 07:22 ritoky wrote: btw audience this one or hold it? opinions? esp with breshke currently afk and unsure when/if he is coming back in the next 23 hrs, it means we have an obs QT that has 0 mafia influence or at most 1 in like 15. I think we should use it. This cell is important for town and I want to make sure town has as much info as possible. If we go up 2:0 we'll be in the drivers seat. I hadn't thought of the mafia influence angle, but that's another good reason to use | ||
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On February 26 2016 07:02 sicklucker wrote: darth i wanna hear alot from you today. your in a weird spot because your vs two of my only townreads. But I dont acualy scum read you?. im voting you now but it could change I will filter dive Rels and LS. I'm more than willing to answer people's questions. As you said, i'm in a tough spot because people are meta town reading my cellmates, making me PoE mafia instead of actually having a mafia read on me which is rather annoying. At least that's the vibe i've gotten from everyone not in my cell. Even LS is PoE mafia me! Either way, Rels or LS is aware of their town meta and are exploiting it to great use so far. From what a few players were saying early game, I tend to think Rels is the more likely candidate to be able to emulate town play as scum-- at least that's what someone said early on who had experience with scum!Rels. My biggest defense right now is that if i'm mafia I've played a terribly stupid game. Now that might be believable in a regular mafia game, but there are other 4 mafia members who didn't tell me to cut it out early on. The smart mafia TEAM move is to buss Breshke, win cell 2 and consolidate from there. No way mafia sticks their neck out for a completely AFK Breshke. Think that was proven by Breshke not providing any information in the last 24h for town to decipher. I ask Kush, Shapelog or anyone who saw my scum or town play; does it really feel like i'm playing as mafia right now? Or are you just PoE stratting right now? I've been way more engaged, posted my thoughts-- even if they're unpopular-- and cared more than in my scum game in which I just went with whatever was hip and cool at the time. Anyways I realize this isn't enough, so I will accompany it with cell reads later. I have confidence that we can win this cell and I won't give up until the end of the day | ||
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Pretty sure I was the first person to seriously question the Breshke universal scumread, followed by Kuragari and then Vivax. Maybe i'm forgetting someone. Anyways, my argument never got any traction so good mafia would've still voted or stayed on Breshke imo | ||
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either i'm too scummy to be scum, but I don't even think i've been scummy and most people have me as PoE right now or Rels/LS is exactly like their meta town because they're aware of their meta because they're better and more experienced players than I am | ||
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On February 26 2016 22:30 Rels wrote: DF is scum and you should vote him 1. His townread on Breshke was bad His townread on Breshke was based on two reasons. First: + Show Spoiler + On February 23 2016 16:05 darthfoley wrote: I know Breshke hasn't posted much but I liked this post of his Why would mafia not want an AFK party near the end? Also, didn't particularly like Kush's response While that's true, you're kinda just kicking the can down the road if you want to keep AFK people in longer. Wouldn't town benefit longer from having many active players left in longer? On February 24 2016 10:39 darthfoley wrote: I don't think any of these posts are bad, and they give me a towny vibe from Breshke. You don't have to be running for mayor to care about cell order. This sounds like someone trying to work through the strategy of cell order from town perspective. Breshke posted a few questions at the very beginning of the game. These questions were completely NAI if taken alone, and scum indicative as a whole as it's the only thing Breshke had done N0. DF townreading Breshke for this reason does not make sense: this read is fabricated. Second reason: + Show Spoiler + On February 25 2016 05:33 darthfoley wrote: VA I've never said that i'm set in my scum read of you. But when 8/15 people have already voted for Breshke, and there are 5/15 mafia in the game, I don't like the optics. To switch gears a bit, your post implies that you can't be convinced that LS is mafia, why? Too many people voted Breshke in a row, so Breshke has to be town. Well, first this number is wrong: 6 people voted in a row when DF made this post. This migth mean nothing but it's way less extreme than DF made it out to be. Secondly, he had kinda the same reaction to Palmar being lynched D1 in Star Wars; and Palmar flipped scum. He should have learned that several people piling on a guy doesn't m ean the guy is town. This looks like he used his star wars game town meta to create an excuse to townread Breshke. 2. His reaction to my VA read is not understandable DF is suspicious of me because of my "bad VA town read". But he's saying at the same time VA could be town. Vivax pressured him on that since why would I invent a reason to townread VA just to have an excuse to shit on my partner Breshke. His answer: He dodges the question and says "Rels could be town actually". No explanation as to why he thought my VA read made me scum. Later and even now he continues to be suspicious about me with the vague reason that I "did scummy stuff". Since he agreed I could be town and he just misunderstood my words on VA, I have no idea what "scummy stuff" he is talking about now. 3. He's making the difference between my VA read and ritoky's VA read when it's the same ritoky and I had the same read with different words on VA. It doesn't make sense that he townreads ritoky for it and scurmeads me in the same time. These reads are fabricated. 4. He's spending a lot of time self metaing to prove his townieness He's actually spending more time defending himself than doing anything else, especially lately. Here is a compilation of posts: + Show Spoiler + On February 25 2016 04:53 darthfoley wrote: I find it ironic that i'm playing pretty much EXACTLY how I played Star Wars D1 last game and was universally (correctly) town read for it, but here all of a sudden everyone scum reads me. I was sort of a devil's advocate in Star Wars because I really didn't like the way the Palmar wagon was shaping up. It was basically one wagon with no alternative and everyone was jumping on; I feel similarly regarding Breshke and VA right now. Everyone scum reading the same person, especially in a game with 5!!!! scum, makes me suuuuper uneasy. @Shapelog Meta reading me in Newbie vs. this game is completely different. This is themed, and I'm playing with much better and more experienced players. I am playing a similar game compared to Star Wars: I am willing to sheep people who are better at the game and I have read town, but I am also willing to point out logical inconsistencies and uneasy wagons when I see them. Maybe Breshke is scum who has just gone AFK or whatever and people are trying to jump on him and get town cred, but it makes no sense for scum!darthfoley to be the only one willing to defend/challenge conventional wisdom. On February 25 2016 05:01 darthfoley wrote: Okay, let's accept your premise that breshke is 100% scum. Why does my defense of him make me scum? You literally played with me last game and I did the same thing with Palmar when I was town. Not seeing why you are so attached with this being alignment indicative On February 25 2016 05:26 darthfoley wrote: well i think i've explained why I think things relatively thoroughly so far. Do you want clarification on something? Also @VA, people weren't really scum reading me in a serious way until I started to defend Breshke. From a mafia POV, what's the point of sticking your neck out for a cell that is almost certainly going to get 50/50'd if your scum partner is the heavily scum read person in it? Does this game remind you at all of my scum play in Unoriginal? I'd say it's about as different as you could be. On February 25 2016 17:09 darthfoley wrote: Yea exactly. I'm just gonna stop overthinking things in the future if Breshke is flips obvious mafia kinda like palmar in the Star Wars game lol On February 25 2016 18:30 darthfoley wrote: this is actually so annoying and i'm going to be quite peeved when either of the confirmed town LS or Rels comes back as mafia and we lose the cell. Rels I accidentally looked at the mayor count vote instead of the VA/Breshke vote. My point is still valid and idk why accidentally writing 8 instead of 6 makes me confirmed scum. I later explained my logic after that post Rels. I really don't know why you guys think I would choose my hill to die on D1 defending my completely afk scum teammate when I could just bus him for town points like probably the rest of mafia are doing right now. i t m a k e s n o s e n s e On February 25 2016 18:36 darthfoley wrote: Yes. It is similar to my Star Wars game D1 regarding Palmar/Zyrre. Granted I was wrong in that game, but I really don't like when someone goes AFK and all of a sudden EVERYONE is scum reading that person, ESPECIALLY with the other person (VA) not doing anything imo to warrant the town reads he is getting On February 26 2016 04:40 darthfoley wrote: Yea i'm frustrated. Because I spent half of my cycle wasting my breath defending someone who has turned out to be mega obvious mafia, while getting almost universally wrongly scum read for it. It's great if we successfully used our 50/50 and go up 1:0, but town would be in an amazing decision if we go up 2:0 after my cell and if I can't change people's minds, that won't happen. Can't remember who said it, but I endorse using the audience power for my group too unless there's some obvious reason i'm missing. Going up 2:0 should basically ensure a town win. On February 26 2016 06:56 darthfoley wrote: Just wanna say that the theory that i'm scum is: Breshke is read scum by people Everyone knows Ritoky will likely use 50/50 on the cell I decide to go super out of my way to reverse buss Breshke while my three other mafia teammates buss him I put a huge target on my back Breshke goes AFK Everyone scum reads me Breshke gets killed, town up 1:0 I get killed, town up 2:0 like this is really unlikely and super super dumb mafia play On February 26 2016 09:38 darthfoley wrote: I will filter dive Rels and LS. I'm more than willing to answer people's questions. As you said, i'm in a tough spot because people are meta town reading my cellmates, making me PoE mafia instead of actually having a mafia read on me which is rather annoying. At least that's the vibe i've gotten from everyone not in my cell. Even LS is PoE mafia me! Either way, Rels or LS is aware of their town meta and are exploiting it to great use so far. From what a few players were saying early game, I tend to think Rels is the more likely candidate to be able to emulate town play as scum-- at least that's what someone said early on who had experience with scum!Rels. My biggest defense right now is that if i'm mafia I've played a terribly stupid game. Now that might be believable in a regular mafia game, but there are other 4 mafia members who didn't tell me to cut it out early on. The smart mafia TEAM move is to buss Breshke, win cell 2 and consolidate from there. No way mafia sticks their neck out for a completely AFK Breshke. Think that was proven by Breshke not providing any information in the last 24h for town to decipher. I ask Kush, Shapelog or anyone who saw my scum or town play; does it really feel like i'm playing as mafia right now? Or are you just PoE stratting right now? I've been way more engaged, posted my thoughts-- even if they're unpopular-- and cared more than in my scum game in which I just went with whatever was hip and cool at the time. Anyways I realize this isn't enough, so I will accompany it with cell reads later. I have confidence that we can win this cell and I won't give up until the end of the day On February 26 2016 09:45 darthfoley wrote: That's fair. But no one has yet to "get" me on what my supposed endgame as mafia is from my D1 play. Kuragari and I with a bit of Vivax were the only ones who were skeptical of VA, and they are both in later cells. Why would mafia risk losing 2 cells in a row right at the beginning by trying to save a sunken ship? I might be less experienced than some players, but i'm not that dumb. This seems so obvious to me man. It's clear imo that mafia is in a less than ideal situation, and going down 0:2 is desperation mode. Breshke just takes one for the team and cell 2 becomes almost a must win for mafia. Who seems to be playing in must-win-this-cell mode? 5. His attitude before the 50/50 looked like he was scum with Breshke and waiting to see who the 50/50 ends up being on Here is my post on him at the time: 6. He's STILL undecided on who is scum between LS and I He started by shitting on my reads. Then when I fought back he switched to LS on the "LS scumread me when my reads align with him" thing. Since then he's been undecided. He doesn't know which one of us is scum. Like point 5 where he was undecided between VA and FF, it looks like he's waiting to see who is the easier mislynch between LS and I. Actually here is his last post in the thread: No answer. 7. NOT A REASON: him defending Breshke is NOT town indicative Him defending Breshke is not scum indicative per se (except it is since his reasonning for townreading Breshke is fabricated). But it is NOT town indicative. This is a game where you win when you get to three points. You scum team can have the best scum in the world, he is only going to bring his team 1 point if he's not lynched. He's not going to carry the game. In a standard game this defense of "I wouldn't defend my partner hardcore" would be a little more true. Just a little bit, as scum usually don't push or defend each other hardcore. But in this game, where if VA had been lynched scum team would have gotten 1 point, and DF is going to be out of the game after today anyway, there is NO advantages to bus your teammate, as the end result in the best case scenario is a draw. Conclusion Lynch him, gets free point. Defense against this case which has some serious flaws in it: 1. My read on Breshke was not fabricated. I thought that his point regarding leaving active players in the game longer was town indicative, because that's the most beneficial strategy to town imo. We got an AFK cell out of the way early (to the detriment of Breshke) and we got a point out of it. Idk how that post is scum indicative. Also you calling me confirmed scum because I accidentally cited the mayor VC instead of the D1 VC right below is really dumb. "It's way less extreme than it's made out to be" 6/14 and 8/14 is not an "extreme difference." If I had said 11/14 or something, you'd have a point. 2. You are acting like YOU making a shitty town read on VA and VA being town are mutually exclusive. News flash, scum often town read people for bad or illogical reasoning. My point was this: I think it could've been argued that VA was being more towny than Breshke via meta or something, but I strongly disagreed with your original reason to town read VA: "aggressivly posting his thoughts and scumreads." There was nothing aggressive about his play. I've seen aggressive VA town play against ME, which you can read here and there was nothing in his filter at the time that warranted being called aggressive, him posting a few names with no explanation is not aggressive. He never provided any explanation on any of the things you called "aggressive". Again, this strikes me as a potential fabricated reason to claim a TR on someone while bussing your afk scummate. The reason why I said you could be town is that I have seen multiple times where two towns have tunneled each other because they just simply interpret the same information completely differently, and draw the conclusion that the other MUST be mafia because no one would ever disagree with their godlike reads. 3. Ritoky said VA was doing his "town meta thing" and being a dick. Those are not the same attributes as someone playing aggressively. I'm more likely to believe Ritoky because of the percentages, but his read makes a lot more sense to me than you claiming VA was going after people and being aggressive when he wasn't. 4. I'm not spending time meta'ing myself to "prove" i'm towny. I also find it so fucking annoying that meta'ing myself is considered scummy when people have literally crossed LS, you, or both off the list almost solely imo on meta reads. Like how the fuck can someone not be able to fake rage in all caps. Serrrrrioously? I'm frustrated because one of you is using your meta to your advantage cleverly and i'm getting shit for trying to point out the discrepancies in my town vs. scum play. Also @Kush you say I am not good mafia therefore it's likely that I tried to yolo save Breshke basically by myself. Yet bad mafia are bad because they can't change their meta; which is it? Are you suggesting that I did a complete 180 from my Unoriginal game where I flip flopped on everything and didn't engage with my teammates at all, and now i'm not only defending my scummate, i'm putting myself AND MY TEAM in a terrible situation of going down 0:2 because I was scumread-- oh, and I didn't have anyone in QT telling me not to? If you actually think that, I think I deserve an apology when I flip town. and Rels, who On February 26 2016 19:50 Rels wrote: It does. I am a strong scum, I could have maybe get VA lynched instead of Breshke. Probably not but I would have probably tried, then use that same defense DF is using right now: "hey if I was scum I wouldn't have defended my partner like that!". Even if I didn't try, I would have never pushed my partner like I did, especially before knowing FF was confirmed town. Okay, you contend that you are a strong scum, so you could've defended Breshke and gotten VA lynched. Yet you also seem to suggest that I am NOT strong scum, so I wasn't going to get VA lynched. I guess I just forgot how shitty my scum play was last game, and thought I could Rambo my way through a 50/50 teammate save. You say you probably would've tried; I contend that you wouldn't have, because you're smart scum. - It was pretty clear to most people there was a high chance 50/50 is gonna be used on cell 1 - Last thing you want as mafia cell 2, is to look bad on a cell that's 50/50. Let me explain: even if you win the cell, you will most likely get scum read for it and lose the second cell, so at best you're tied 1:1; at worst, you defend Breshke hardcore, he flips scum, then you die and you're down 0:2. You're smart and realize this, and you can-- on the surface-- incriminate me for my play, so you just decide to do that. - In short, mafia would never choose a 50/50 cell 1 to be their Waterloo when they're in cell 2 and their cell 1 mate has been AFK forever; the chances of going down 0:2 are just too damn high, and Rels is the type of person to be aware of this. Mafia almost certainly loses if they go down 0:2 early. 5. You claim I didn't commit to a read on Breshke's cell before the 50/50 in fear, but I LITERALLY DID. It was basically Breshke town lean, FF null, VA scum lean. That isn't having a null read on everyone and winging it. You even quoted it. Now it's fine to disagree with my reads, but to claim I didn't have reads is misrepresenting me once again 6. My line of questioning against LS regarding his similar reads with me but also scum reading me is probably one of the most towny things I've done all game. To think that you're trying to spin it into some bullshit scum read about being unsure is just that: bullshit. News flash to you, I know one of you two are mafia, but at that time I was unsure. Naturally i'm gonna point out scummy looking things from the two of you. Another bad, bad evidence piece from someone who is normally good at cases... when you're town. 7. You contend that me defending Breshke isn't town indicative; well I suggest that your bus of Breshke is not town indicative either, specifically because of the 50/50 mechanic. You are a much better mafia to be town read than Breshke. You can affect the game more being in for two days, and being town read for two whole cells. Best part is, when you lynch me, town isn't told whether you or LS is mafia, so cell 2 is much more important than cell 1 for a mafia down 0:1, in that sense. One last thing: I think Rels not wanting to use audience is scum indicative. While it would be a bummer to use both powers on two cells, the potential to go up 2:0 as town is CERTAINLY worth it. We should also keep in mind that the audience will probably not be as engaged later in the game per what ritoky said, and right now there is at most like 1/howevermany mafia influence. Compared to 50/50, audience gets exponentially less reliable as the game goes on, so Rels wanting to "save" it for later when more mafia are in the obs qt, and fewer obs people are paying attention, is ideal from mafia pov. Let's remember On February 23 2016 12:35 LightningStrike wrote: Darth corrected himself after remembering Star Wars was played with with our entire cell lol......... It was true I did get townread pretty quickly in that game compared to Onegu so(shrugs). Darth just never had the pleasure of having to deal with scum Rels twice(His scum game was pretty solid). About people's responses to your post: Ritoky does have a decent point about my cell being easier to read as the game goes on. Doesn't help Rels haven't posted yet :\ Few things about LS: read through his filter, and besides the one post I didn't like, there wasn't much from scum pov imo. I also think he was town read as quickly as Star Wars by people who know him better than I do, so I think he's more likely to be town than Rels. TL;DR: I'm not mafia. Who's mafia in my cell? Rels. Way too much cherry picking, misrepresenting and illogical reads from a smart town perspective imo. | ||
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Is that your FINAL answer? | ||
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On February 27 2016 08:35 Vivax wrote: I feel super paranoid about this wagon, so you don't have to worry about me afk parking my vote on you, darth. Thanks. At the end of the day, if you truly feel me most scummy, i won't hold it against you. I just urge against lazy voting in this cell particularly because of what it could mean for town if we go up 2:0. Town has never won one of these. Willing to answer questions and whatnot until the deadline because i'm not damn mafia | ||
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On February 24 2016 22:46 Rels wrote: My reads: VA => aggressively posting his thoughts and scumreads On February 25 2016 03:35 ritoky wrote: basically this is where i am at: ... 4) VA did his town meta thing 5) VA sounds dickish/obstinate, which is how he sounds more often as town. as opposed to when he is all friendly and shit as mafia like here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/503437-star-wars-the-mafia-awaken?user=VayneAuthority thus breshke i think breshke is currently the scum How are these similar reads? Unless I misunderstood Rels and he meant aggressive = dickish/obstinate when I thought he meant aggessively scumhunting. If that's the case then I've been completely misunderstanding Rels's initial read on VA | ||
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Not sure what bad yet convenient reads I've made, unless you're literally talking about Breshke, which I've already talked about in depth. I stand by my reasoning that it never made sense for mafia to do anything but buss Breshke | ||
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On February 27 2016 23:24 nooniansoong wrote: Ya Darth is scum. So much defense and very little thought put into who in his cell is scum. Scum is demotivated because they can see that they are getting rolled and they can't defend their team or they will look terrible. Lol try me, i'll post my reads for the other cells in a bit. | ||
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1. Vivax - His play has been very solid I think, organic reads and he's been a bit tinfoily which you guys say makes him town 2. Kush - I say scum lean. He already has 9 pages of filter which may be important to note b/c meta. I've seen a couple(?) scum games of his and he rarely puts in the type of effort he's show here. Filter page 5, calls LS out for "generic bs" but doesn't draw any conclusions; he's had both Rels and LS on his braglists, with barely ANYTHING about me being scum. On February 25 2016 22:33 nnn_thekushmountains wrote: Looking forward to rels/darth/LS, I've narrowed it down to rels vs LS. Rels - pushing superficial cases. LS - a meta black hole. I don't recall every experiencing scumLS and townLS always looks scummy to me. So just approaching his filter without meta, I think I like it. Therefore I will probably be voting rels. On February 27 2016 23:24 nooniansoong wrote: Ya Darth is scum. So much defense and very little thought put into who in his cell is scum. Scum is demotivated because they can see that they are getting rolled and they can't defend their team or they will look terrible. It's funny he calls me demotivated, but earlier he said I was On February 25 2016 23:19 nnn_thekushmountains wrote: I said those things mostly without being informed but that doesn't mean I'm wrong. 1 DF is town because ... he's making himself really available, engaging in conversation, talking about his reads a lot. Don't think i've become less active or demotivated. Odd read progression, but covers his bases when I flip town-- which I will. 3. bumatlarge - Best bet for flipping scum right now. I think the biggest indication of this is that he has yet to take a firm stand on my cell. Just so you know, he's sort of implied every single cell C person is scummy in some way, but hasn't committed to his read on anyone. Take a look at his filter, it's pretty ass. Cell B OWS - Meh his filter has been very lackluster regarding cell C; hasn't committed to anything except the conventional wisdom from everyone that LS isn't mafia l0l. Pretty sure this cell is between Shapelog and OWS Damdred - Towniest in this cell, which isn't saying that much but I am relatively confident in this read. His gameplay just seems like a town game where in regular rules he'd be n0 or n1 nk'd. Shapelog - A lot of his play has been trash. This post is the most obvious cherrypick to imply i'm scum here he blames deleting half of my quote that HE quoted on him being tired. So bad. Also here he seems to really defend me, but doesn't draw a conclusion or actually defend me. Looks like he's trying to claim town cred when I flip town without doing anything to really push the other two players in my cell, which he should be doing if he thinks i'm town. Either Shape or OWS Cell A ritoky - I think he's probably the most town person in this game. If he's mafia i'm going to be hurt physically and emotionally. Good play from the beginning to now, including him continually talking about LS in a way most people haven't. Only thing that's weird is that he didn't use audience on this cell, citing him sheeping other people's opinions which I don't think is normal town!ritoky? sicklucker - On February 26 2016 07:02 sicklucker wrote: darth i wanna hear alot from you today. your in a weird spot because your vs two of my only townreads. But I dont acualy scum read you?. im voting you now but it could change Posted this almost 2 days ago, and barely has any posts since. Doens't seem like he was ever going to not vote for me, and his inactivity with such a hard cell and potential 2:0 on the line is super sus imo. Another weird ass post earlier - On February 26 2016 06:25 sicklucker wrote: rels can be town I liked his line of questioning and im suspect of it too.My spot is so weird im not even sure if I should defend or even talk myself in thread because if my cell ever comes into play none of you will have a say in it anyway. tl;dr Basically none of his posts have actually solved anything. Kuragari - I just read through his last post and part of me wants to think he's town because he's come to the conclusion that I am not mafia which is correct. Parking his vote on LS and peacing is weird considering the flip is going to be here within the time he's gone, and he already admits that everyone is basically between 45-55 scum-town or vice versa. Seems like a safe vote and he'll get town cred he needs when i flip town, because he was getting scum read by quite a few people after cell 1. | ||
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On February 28 2016 03:40 Damdred wrote: Here's what's bothering me when I look through darths filter. He's pretty indecisive between ls and Rels before Rels cases him. He then cases Rels back, and discards the notion of ls being scum and just centers on Rels. He even asks ls if he thinks Darth is scum and just tells him he's wrong. I think my question is what made you lose any paranoia of ls darth? And why did it 100% have to be Rels from your perspective no matter what? It's not that I lost paranoia of LS. It's just that I have found serious flaws in his case on me that I don't seem coming from town!Rels. Basically he's found ANYTHING i've done scummy which is why I asked if town!Rels is knowing for tunneling someone and never considering other shit-- don't think anyone ever answered that. If his town meta is known for that, I become a lot less sure on my scum!Rels read. I do find it very weird that LS is resigned to letting me and Rels beat each other up... this cell is fucking hard which is why I wanted to use audience. Really annoyed we didn't use it. | ||
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On February 28 2016 05:14 Damdred wrote: Rels is known for it to some degree yes. Before Rels case who were you going to try to vote/case? I was leaning Rels because I know mafia is playing a very strong cell and I think Rels is much likelier to be playing a very smart mafia than LS. If LS is mafia I will never let people forget that he was cleared off of caps lock lol. I can't believe people think my initial vote on VA is scum indicative and people voting on Breshke are town. Breshke puts "gonna be afk guys, bus me and i won't give info out" early in scum qt cycle, then mafia hops on. It makes super sense that mafia would throw the cell that 50/50 is used when their guy is AFK. Gives no info out, and people get a bit of town cred. | ||
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Tbh I think Rels's case against me is quite bullshit and i've refuted all the points. The only valid point was regarding Rels's VA read vs. Ritoky's, BUT I misunderstood what Rels meant: he meant aggressive as = being an asshole; I thought he meant aggressive in the sense of scumhunting/pressing people on reads. I explained my POV multiple times and Rels NEVER clarified what he meant until i specifically asked him, because he knew it helped bolster his case against me. Then he explains by saying whatever he responds is "scum indicative" lol | ||
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rels 3 LS 1 for now; 2 no votes | ||
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Rels (3): darthfoley, Vivax, Shapelog LightningStrike (1): Kuragari42, Not Voted (2): ritoky, Damdred idk something like that | ||
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On February 28 2016 05:19 ritoky wrote: regardless of the rest of his reads, i just don't get this part as mafia.....like it is too close to the deadline to pocket, thinking i have enough influence to save him solo in this format is just wrong, so why post this? like if he is mafia here he has simply spewed me town to the nth degree and has made the final cell of the game (which his team has to win if he is mafia dying here) a 50-50.....i just don't see the mafia motivation behind this level of spew.... quoting this because truth and i want other people to see it | ||
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On February 28 2016 06:14 Rels wrote: Did you read LS Star wars filter like you said ytou would do ? Yea looked through his filter on Star Wars and it's quite reminiscent of this game; short posts, not huge cases or anything. It's almost deja vu lol On February 13 2016 07:56 LightningStrike wrote: Chez prepare the baby seals lol. On February 26 2016 07:03 LightningStrike wrote: Oh nice Breshke was scum Time for us to go 2-0 boys! Darth you may post your baby seals  ##Vote: darthfoley It's fucking rels man | ||
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VOTE RELS | ||
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darthfoley
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1) THE FIRST PERSON ON BRESHKE 2) People who know him well town meta reading him 3) His play is quite similar to Star Wars, in which he was also town read rather quickly. My play this game makes 0 sense if i'm mafia. Wasn't I the only person to post reads for the rest of the cells today, even though both Rels and LS were asked? IT'S RELS | ||
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darthfoley
United States8001 Posts
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darthfoley
United States8001 Posts
If this ends 6:5:1 with Kura AFK LS voting i'm going to be so salty | ||
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darthfoley
United States8001 Posts
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darthfoley
United States8001 Posts
On February 28 2016 06:39 Rels wrote: This is bullshit. If you're town and 100% sure I'm scum I have nothing to admit. if you're trying to get town cred off this post you can kindly please stop | ||
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darthfoley
United States8001 Posts
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darthfoley
United States8001 Posts
On February 28 2016 06:40 Shapelog wrote: The facts that no one is switching votes makes me believe more that Rels is scum. But that might just be because none of them are here. what happen to OWS or Kush? I thought they were here? Remember when Kush said if you're here EoD you get town points... well everyone seems to go afk who matters right now fuck this | ||
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darthfoley
United States8001 Posts
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darthfoley
United States8001 Posts
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darthfoley
United States8001 Posts
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darthfoley
United States8001 Posts
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darthfoley
United States8001 Posts
GO UP 2:0 | ||
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darthfoley
United States8001 Posts
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darthfoley
United States8001 Posts
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darthfoley
United States8001 Posts
it was so obviousgood luck mates... so sad right now | ||
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darthfoley
United States8001 Posts
Gonna try to introduce it to my IRL mafia group! Thanks to the hosts | ||
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