Newbie Student Mafia XIX

On January 22 2016 00:48 Shapelog wrote:
i'll /in if it starts sundayish
However if someone comes in ready to play they can happy take my spot and i can go back on the /replace list.

On January 23 2016 04:57 JesusIncarnate wrote:
i am not a smurf

On January 23 2016 05:01 nooniansoong wrote:


You obviously made an account just to play in this game.
What is your story? Have you come from another mafia site or were you a tl lurker without an account who wanted to try mafia?

On January 24 2016 04:24 nooniansoong wrote:
wat your description of plynch is terrible...
plynches are so underrated.

On January 25 2016 22:02 Half the Sky wrote:
Also newbies, regardless of alignment, I tell you one thing - USE YOUR COACHES, they are there for a reason

On January 22 2016 05:10 ritoky wrote:
there needs to be more people with access to the eye slam. show them the eye.

On January 25 2016 22:02 Half the Sky wrote:
Also newbies, regardless of alignment, I tell you one thing - USE YOUR COACHES, they are there for a reason

On January 26 2016 03:14 Half the Sky wrote:


Interesting, must be Latin American Spanish then because I've never heard that word in Spain. Good to know.

On January 26 2016 02:15 Shapelog wrote:

*unbookmarks House of Chupuz Guide*
What Curse =(?

On January 26 2016 04:26 Shapelog wrote:
Also If you shown me the Eye I would like to ask for my money back.

That movie sucks.

On January 26 2016 04:20 Shapelog wrote:

Makes sense.
But by outing the fact that Enigma is your meta would that mean Enigma isn't your meta since you can define your meta?
And if it is your style does that mean your shirt is invisible?

I mean only mafia would wear a invisible shirt like 90% of the time. So does that mean that I, as a robotic asshole, lynch you 100% of the time?

Also what eye? the stink eye? Saskue Eye? What Eye?

On January 26 2016 06:44 nooniansoong wrote:


basically the scumteam is fucked

On January 26 2016 07:39 Shapelog wrote:


Is this it Boss?

On January 26 2016 22:04 Shapelog wrote:


Is this it?

On January 27 2016 03:34 Shapelog wrote:

Dang, this guy is good.
First he makes us believe that he has replied to the Confirmation PM but using thread presence.
Than pushs the sus. towards Alur and Ik. who have been lurking.
Than Kush pushs his agenda for him and cleans his hands.

If it wasn't for Prince LoneMeow's Red check I might of pushed your agenda too

On January 27 2016 06:01 Shapelog wrote:
Kush is scum because he hasn't slip town yet.
2 down

On January 27 2016 06:19 Trfel wrote:
Shapelog, how does one "slip town"? Genuinely curious.

I need to leave soon, unfortunately But two mafia down gives us 192 hours to find the last mafia, so there shouldn't be any rush

On January 27 2016 06:32 Shapelog wrote:

Kush, has a certain thing he does as town (he might do it as mafia thou.) i seen him do it as vt in the last two games i playef with him.

i don't want to say it since he could be mafia and it wouldn't be that great of a town tell anymore

On January 27 2016 06:56 _MexicanAlien wrote:
So is the first day always just meta reads?

On January 27 2016 06:39 Onegu wrote:
But serious Shape trying to meta read kush(nooninsong) before he even posts is weird as fuck.

On January 27 2016 07:07 _MexicanAlien wrote:
Alright enough about meta reads
we should come up with a strategy

On January 27 2016 07:19 darthfoley wrote:
You mean, discuss what the blue roles would do IF they in fact are in the setup?

Discussing blue roles in depth too early is dangerous for the town. That information is really valuable for mafia, ESPECIALLY because their setup is the same for each of the 4 possibilities.

On January 27 2016 07:37 Shapelog wrote:

I do something/suggest something dumb,
Post something un relating
Comment on someone elses post and do something dumb again,
and then post something unrelating?

On January 27 2016 07:40 Shapelog wrote:

Doesn't that make you scum since you want to control the thread and not allow the discussion to develop?
Or is that a Oneguy try hard thing?

On January 27 2016 08:38 nooniansoong wrote:


This seems contradictory. Nervous people don't spout whatever comes into their head.

On January 27 2016 07:03 Eden1892 wrote:

What exactly is weird about anything Shapelog did? Specifics please.

On January 27 2016 06:00 Trfel wrote:
Onegu is mafia because he's too excited about the game to be town. One down

On January 27 2016 06:41 Shapelog wrote:

I am not trying to read him lol.
I am just saying there is something he does and as the day(s) goes on I will look for it, if it is absent, I will comment on it. Unless your scum team kills me, in which case i can just use it later on .

On January 27 2016 07:55 Shapelog wrote:

Yeah i was revising the logic on it after Deathfy posted about it.
Also I am always Sus. on my D1's, Both as Blue and Vt due to my reactive, blah blah blah trolling playstyle
Yet to roll mafia sadly, thought this would be the one =(.

On January 27 2016 07:09 darthfoley wrote:


What do you suggest?

On January 27 2016 07:34 _MexicanAlien wrote:
Is anyone else here seeing a pattern?

On January 27 2016 14:55 Shapelog wrote:
Is my Trolling really this godly at causing mass chaos lol?
I mean how does strong townies (from what i seen from other games) like Trifel doesn't have a read on me. Unbelievable.

On January 27 2016 10:58 Shapelog wrote:
Yo USP is the bomb. Got me my motherboard a day early :D

I've read the TR on me. I think it is the worse possible town read on me period.
Let me explain.

He/she calls my town lean on Mexican Alien farfetch. I town lean that came from:


There is no way that a mafia make the first post and then makes the second. He could of easily pushed a mafia agenda right here. Hell he could of taken Thread control here forcing townies to listen to a strategy that really doesn't have any merit to it (too early in the game IMO).
Also the "we need infomation" also seems townie to me (though i will admit it can defiantly be NAI).

Tell me what is the purpose of saying this as mafia? Like at all why would he want the blue talk to end? Sure, maybe he wanted cred for it. But this is a very pro-townie statement, In fact, mafia benefits NONE from it.

This shows he is reading the thread and is trying to actively solve the game. Patterns are usally the first thing the brain notices when Analyzing things.

So My town read on Mexican is good. The fact he is solving the game should be a clear indication.
But here is why you don't town read him:

Ok, First off I could see where you come from. Maybe (Just maybe) you think he is trying to draw attention to me, and possibly forcing a mislynch on me.
Ok lets ponder this:
Sure, i'll admit that I am prob. the best mislynch target for mafia at this point. I mean god, look at my posts. A lot of things that can be used for a case. And sure, while I did tried to help town, i ended up failing epicly. Also who would trust me? honestly who?
But the thing is, the above post from him doesn't push me. Sure, it could be taken as that. But that is more of a playstyle question then "I think this guy could be scum b/c of X" statement.
And lets also ponder the fact you can be mafia.
You come into the thread "lolly lolly, I am peppermint" read the posts and you get to the end. Who stands out? Prob. me and mexcian. You see that everyone is sus. of me. I can totaly see you town reading me (since you know I am town b/c your mafia) so when i get lynch (or if i get lynched) you get cred for it. You also benift if mexican gets killed because he is a strong player.
So no matter what you win either way.

Finally, lets discus your town read on me:
Initial: "hes overexcited and nervous"

So you drop the overexcited part? Ok, I will admit, I do have anxintry disorder. But, I have not felt nervous or overexcited about this at all. sure, i am happy that i am playing, but i am not like OMG YES YES YES.

What also is funny is that you decide is that my town lean was weak, BUT your town read was not. I mean at least mine I could prove and it made sense. All yours is on is tone, period.

Honestlly, Right now, you have a good chance of being scum.
##VoteepperMintTea

On January 27 2016 15:36 Shapelog wrote:
But anyways how did my post had anything to do with this?

On January 27 2016 15:38 darthfoley wrote:
Onegu, I still don't understand how Alur's point A has anything to do with his read that Shapelog is scummy. His point A is basically arguing that what he did (the Kush meta thing) was a stupid thing to do, because it gives mafia!Kush better prep for his playstyle/defense. But the only two ways it's stupid is if

1) Shapelog is town
2) Shapelog and Noon are both mafia and they're setting up meta shit, which is smart.

How does any of that implicate Shapelog as scum? Maybe i'm missing something huge idk

On January 27 2016 15:36 Shapelog wrote:
But anyways how did my post had anything to do with this?

On January 27 2016 15:47 Shapelog wrote:
Also for heavens sakes Town! Shapelog talks to talk. Blue! Shapelog talks to Talk. so Scum! Shapelog prob. talks to Talk (I think).

They All Talk to Talk

On January 27 2016 15:53 Shapelog wrote:

Is this your new training program?

On January 27 2016 16:11 Eden1892 wrote:
I skimmed the early stuff. It's a bit late and I don't really feel like reading the thread in a lot of depth right now, but I got a few early reads worth sharing.


- Shapelog is obviously town, and the first thing I want to do when I get the motivation to read this game in detail (which will be tomorrow, hold me to this and don't let me be lazy) is to read the sequence of people scumreading him early while it was the "in" read to give, because I'm almost positive scum were involved in that.

If I actually have to explain this (and if you need it explained, that's okay; newbie game and all), Shapelog's posting was very spontaneous and "error-prone" in the right way. As Onegu put it, "talking about someone's meta before they even post" is in fact a poor use of a townie's time, because you don't need to call attention to the idea that you have a way to read somebody based on meta. Just make the read in either direction when the trigger behavior you're waiting on manifests itself (or doesn't manifest itself when it should).

But a post like that is never going to come from mafia. Mafia players don't think to themselves: "You know, I should post that I have a meta read on kush before he says anything. That will make me look more townie and advance my agenda." Because it doesn't. It's empty words.

An excited townie, however, who is trying to get discussion started and generate meaningful data for themselves and other players to read, might be overeager and start talking about this tell before it manifests, because it's meaningful to them (even if it doesn't do anything yet). And if you read the rest of Shapelog's posts, eagerness and excitement are pretty reasonable descriptors of his emotional state as he plays.

So we can either assume that Shapelog is a bad noob scum player, who also doesn't have anybody on his team to tell him that his early posting isn't doing anything to help, and who also doesn't have a scum coach telling him the same thing... or we can just assume that he is an eager townie, as his posts read.


- Onegu is my current top suspect for a few okay-ish reasons:

1. Not recognizing Shapelog as obvious town. He talks about Shapelog's posts being weird, his posting direction as not helping town, blabla... ignores all the evidence pointing to the conclusion I just gave you from only skimming the thread, but then avoids giving a concrete read on Shapelog when the action is all centered on Shapelog during that sequence I mentioned at the beginning of this post (p13-14 I think is the right section, where Pepperminttea posted). I expect better from "tryhard Onegu" since I genuinely view the Shapelog read as trivially simple for an experienced player to make.

2. Unusually rigid policies for what is okay to use/discuss. This one's a little convoluted, but hopefully I'll make it clear. At several points during Onegu's interaction with Shapelog, there's these posts that basically say "You're doing X thing. X thing is A Bad Thing. Don't do X thing." Referring to some aspects of scumhunting that are variably useful: metagame reading (sometimes great, sometimes bad), setup spec discussion (same), self-meta (granted, this one is pretty bad always). And he's not wrong when he says them. Shapelog's attempted use of metagame reading of kush was not very productive, and setup spec posting is pretty bad in this setup (which I'll explain in a bit). And there's even a conflating motivator here -- Onegu is an experienced player in a newbie game, so you could argue he feels an impetus to steer the newbies toward more "proper" scumhunting avenues.

But the lack of explanation bothers me a lot, especially given that the things he discusses are variably useful and not clearly always bad. Like he says to stop posting about blues, because it only helps mafia. In this case, it's true: since the mafia know the whole setup, the only thing that can really come from the town discussing the setup is blues accidentally slipping up and making clear that they have extra knowledge of the game state (and thus outing blues to mafia). (Mafia can slip in the same way, but it's hard for townies to distinguish whether the slip is blue or red in nature, and besides, mafia tend to be much more careful about their known information; so it's rare for mafia to slip and much more common for blues to do it, making it bad for town.)

^^ See how easy that explanation was? 3-4 lines. But Onegu doesn't even do that, he just says "this is bad don't do it." It belies the "Onegu is trying to help the newbies get better" explanation, since you would expect an explanation for why something is bad if you're trying to get better by having people tell you something is bad.

As such it reads less like "Onegu trying to help the townies" and more like "Onegu trying to jam up potentially useful (from the standpoint of getting town reads) discussion under the guise of being helpful to newbies."


- kush already seems several orders of magnitude more invested than he was in Unoriginal, where he was mafia. And he made the point I did about Shapelog, and made it first, while people were trying to twist it into a scummy thing for Shapelog to be eager and talking a lot. Early TR for him.


- darthfoley seems much more relaxed and spontaneous than he was in Unoriginal, where he was mafia. He also had a couple of salient points he made that I've forgotten and don't care to look up right now. Early TR here as well.




TL;DR:
- Shapelog solid town
- kush, darth early tr's
- Onegu scummy
- There's probably a mafia among the "Shapelog is scummy" crowd from p13-14

On January 27 2016 07:34 _MexicanAlien wrote:
Is anyone else here seeing a pattern?

On January 27 2016 07:40 Shapelog wrote:

Doesn't that make you scum since you want to control the thread and not allow the discussion to develop?
Or is that a Oneguy try hard thing?

On January 27 2016 07:48 _MexicanAlien wrote:
So first shapelog suggests talking about blue roles, then he lists the reason for each blue role to not need help.
Very good reasons.

On January 27 2016 08:49 Alur wrote:
Hi boys!

First mafia game anywhere ever for me, should be fun. Got interested from watching the Dota 2 community mafia streams. Also casually ghosted a few of the recent games on TL.

My observations as of right now:

1. Shapelog is the most scummy player to me.

Reason A: Announcing you have some sort of tell on a player(noon), before he has even posted seems like a really bad idea. If hes mafia he can now attempt to replicate his his VT play from "the last two games", and even if he doesn't do "the tell" he'll be more prepared to defend himself from Shapelog.

Reason B: He was the first to bring up the possible setups. Before the game started I considered if there would be any merit for town to discuss setups on D1, and I concluded that talking about it before anyone had claimed anything would be probably be useless. Bringing up useless stuff doesn't further the town agenda.

Although the fact that he's done all this so fast is a little confusing.

2. Slight townread on _MexicanAlien.
He seems to have a genuine interest in solving the game. Didn't know that mafia knows the setup (could be WIFOM I guess, but whatevs).

3. Slight mafiaread on Darthfoley
I would've expected him to be more excited about rolling town considering his previous game. His posting also feels a little casual and uninvested at times:



Going forward:

Talk about other players.



Not sure what you're referring to, very curious to hear what you've noticed.

On January 27 2016 22:42 Shapelog wrote:

I don't like how this guy only post says that he has reasons to lurk and asking other people to give him questions. Idk, It might be town hearted because he seems to have good reasons to lurk for right now.
Still if this guy doesn't post anything make sure you keep a eye on him, as i will be.

On January 28 2016 00:05 Shapelog wrote:
Cuz if so.
Lynch Onegu.
Lynch Onegu.
Lynch Onegu.

On January 28 2016 01:21 PepperMintTea wrote:

I was asked the same question more than once and that is the general form.




Considering I read shapelog as town and these are the questions I was asked , my "rephrasing of the question" is in fact not interesting.


It appears you have not understood what I said and I apologise for that. Let me simplify things for you.

I don't know the exact reason behind ShapeLog being nervous or over excited. There could be many reasons, I gave a few. However I do think he came across as nervous or over excited, that is my opinion.

As a result of this it caused his haphazardous posting. In my opinion Haphazardous posting of that form typically comes from town.

hence my conclusion.

If you don't understand that then I feel sorry for you.

On January 28 2016 01:41 Shapelog wrote:


Yeah I am totally mafia with PepperMintTea. Totally because how I was the first person to make a mini case about her and i will totally push my scum mate into the lynch candidates (Kush/noon did talk about it, but he just asked questions and voted)
Yeah Totally Brah.

On January 28 2016 01:41 Shapelog wrote:

Yeah I am totally mafia with PepperMintTea. Totally because how I was the first person to make a mini case about her and i will totally push my scum mate into the lynch candidates (Kush/noon did talk about it, but he just asked questions and voted)
Yeah Totally Brah.

On January 28 2016 04:28 Alur wrote:

You say you don't care about towncred. But it's also important for townies to actually read as town, since it makes it easier for the rest of the town to mafia.

My main scumreads are Trfel and Kuragari42 at the moment. I'm not sure what to think of Shapelog, but would also have expected him to calm down had he been town.

My problem is that I'm leaning scum on too many people right now. I'd very much like Jesus to elaborate on his reads. I'd also very much like Eden (who I'm leaning towards being town) to elaborate on the current state of his Onegu read.

On January 28 2016 09:32 Shapelog wrote:
I am here, Just got on. I found a dog in a trash can near my college and been running around seeing where it can receive help (it had a dislocated shoulder)

I am going to catch up. I see that Alur has questions so I will look at them.

On January 28 2016 08:22 Eden1892 wrote:

Like what? Be specific. You cited literal none of these "important things" when you voted him.

On January 28 2016 08:35 Eden1892 wrote:

What a cop out. I hate this.

I feel obligated not to press you further on this in the event I'm wrong and you're on to something.

But if I'm right and you're full of it, this is just giving you time to stall me out and avoid getting lynched.

If you're town you need to make a good faith effort to show me you're not full of it with this line of questioning. I read Tumblewood's filter and felt his suspicions of Shapelog were very consistent and understandable (though I disagree with them). This question looks very do-nothing, like a lot of your questions have been this game. And your flip in those posts I cited is really suspicious to me.

I'm trying to act in good faith and not screw up your play if you are town. Meet me halfway and give me a reason to believe you're not just hot air with this.

On January 28 2016 08:07 Trfel wrote:
EBWOP: Why is Eden1892 scum? I don't care about why I'm town.

Also, I really do think that Tumblewood is town, but I would really appreciate him answering my question, since I could be wrong.

On January 28 2016 06:26 Trfel wrote:
Tumblewood, can you share why you are scumreading Shapelog at this point, please? I don't believe you've mentioned this in a while, correct me if I'm wrong.

On January 27 2016 16:34 Shapelog wrote:
Like sure his above posts are good. But they are 2 posts. And one of them is about set up (which thank you btw Eden for taking the time to explain) I don't think that warrants a strong TR.
Idk you have played with Eden b/4. But to me it sounds like your trying to buddy/pocket him.

On January 27 2016 17:04 Shapelog wrote:

Eh i let you guys duel. It is 3 am. I am done.
For shapelog in da future:
Catch up
Filter Drive:
Onegu
Deathfy
Kush
TW - I want to vist that scum case on me again.
Low active people.

On January 28 2016 09:31 Trfel wrote:
Tumblewood explained his read on Shapelog at my request, you can see this explanation here. Here, he describes why he's continuing to scumread Shapelog. However, you can see that all of the posts he quoted are between his first and second longer posts. Note that in the first post, he discounted Shapelog's "strange" play as non alignment indicative, and in the second, he said that Shapelog was scummy because of his extremely scummy play early on (pre page 16). However, the posts that Tumblewood mentions were all after page 16. This explanation isn't possible.

On January 28 2016 10:44 Trfel wrote:
Sure, someone new might believe that. There's nothing wrong with it. Your point?

On January 27 2016 22:17 JesusIncarnate wrote:
lol people like eden are falling for the simple mafia strat for noobs "I will act stupid and hope people townread me"

Eden is up in the air for me. trfel seems pretty town to me. other people i honestly dont care about.

On January 27 2016 22:42 Shapelog wrote:

I don't like how this guy only post says that he has reasons to lurk and asking other people to give him questions. Idk, It might be town hearted because he seems to have good reasons to lurk for right now.
Still if this guy doesn't post anything make sure you keep a eye on him, as i will be.

My read is that jesus is an unhelpful town, who has annoying posts to read- 'sick meme' 'residentsleeper'

Maybe this is a sick town play and we're going to get rid of mafia on the first night, but I think, judging from his experience, Trfel is an experienced mafia player, and is scum trying to get a townie lynched on day 1.

Whoops, My bad. I'm going to vote on my top scum / useless town read at the moment, I'm open to changing this if people sway my opinion.

##Vote JesusIncarnate

I'm probably the weakest player in the game, so feel free to lynch me for that reason,...

On January 28 2016 15:16 Eden1892 wrote:
sigh hittin me right in the feels with "keep me alive so I can learn"




I'll humor that your post took a while and you changed your mind as a result, Iki. After all, I pretty rapidly changed course on who I wanted to lynch while I was typing my post

But you got to explain to me what changed your mind. It's a bit odd to me that you claim you did, because you didn't make much mention of Jesus in-between your read on him and your list of reads. And you didn't put it back in at the end... or in the follow-up post where you voted for him...

So what changed your mind about Jesus? Please be as specific as you can.

On January 28 2016 14:23 Ikidomari wrote:
Hi all, Sorry for being so inactive at the start, I've been real busy with life, and I've had a hell of a rough time catching up on the game, got a major headache trying to figure everything out. I'll try to be far more active from here on out, feel free to question me all you want, and I'll answer as quickly as possible.

Sorry for any weird formatting issues, the lack of direct quotes, and general rambly-ness of my post, I'm writing from a phone and having a hell of a time getting it all done.

READS with explanations (mostly):

+ Show Spoiler +

OKAY SO
My top 3 for each
Scum: Onegu, JesusIncarnate, Tfel
Town: PMT, Darth, Alur
Keep a close eye on: Shape, Tumble, Kuragari

I'm going to refrain from voting for at least a little while, if I even vote at all. + Show Spoiler +

For now, please feel free to AMA, call me out, whatever. I'll be reading the thread a lot for at least the next few hours.

On January 29 2016 00:26 _MexicanAlien wrote:


You might want to show how darthfoley and eden1982 were not bailing you out or giving you backdoors. if you guys were a scum team you would ignore this point.

On January 29 2016 00:48 Kuragari42 wrote:


But.. I think that any mafia would consider NK'ing Eden, probably Darth as well. This really has little indication of your alignment.

Not to mention that the doc in this game might change up the NK a bit.

On January 29 2016 01:38 darthfoley wrote:


This is so god damn bad. Either you're doc and you just outed yourself, or you're mafia and let slip that we're playing either A or C. There's a 3/13 chance your mafia, there's a 1/13 chance you're doc. And you're scummy as hell

##Unvote
##Vote: Kuragari

On January 28 2016 15:38 Ikidomari wrote:
Here's my last point in defense for now. If I was mafia, I'm most afraid of Eden and Darth, and people in the thread know that.
If I survive being lynched today, who dies in the night will pretty much confirm whether or not I'm mafia / town, and I'm an easy vote for day 2.

On January 29 2016 01:44 Shapelog wrote:

No, in fact it is really good.
Just the fact that there is a guy who slip something that is incredible scummy has gotten me to think maybe I am wrong with one of them (Eden and Darth pool).
I am debating who to vote.

On January 29 2016 01:52 Shapelog wrote:

You're just mad that I did the same thing to you with Rik and Giyga Khan in Nutcracker aren't you?
Also duh ik, But if we end up lynching Ikido and he flips scum, then I already have a direction to go into and poke.

On January 29 2016 01:52 Shapelog wrote:

You're just mad that I did the same thing to you with Rik and Giyga Khan in Nutcracker aren't you?
Also duh ik, But if we end up lynching Ikido and he flips scum, then I already have a direction to go into and poke.

On January 29 2016 02:12 Shapelog wrote:

Well I ask you (and this extends to Eden, but i think he explained it a bit) Why did you give Ikido so much ways to escape in you posts towards him? All the coachs, newbie, etc. excuses. Why?

On January 29 2016 02:51 Alur wrote:

I assume you have no reasons or that you're not willing to share them.

On January 29 2016 03:01 Shapelog wrote:
Did Kush just Dumbtell/Scum slip talking about Kura Scumslip/Dumbtell?

On January 29 2016 03:27 Shapelog wrote:
Like we have a guy who In my mind scumslip or dumbtelled Doc.
Vs
A guy who came in with reads that contradicted each other (and bascailly everything in Eden case). And was given outs from Eden and Darth. Darth did explain why he did though, and make a good point. Might of been scum trying to save scum mate.