EPT[M][I] Rayn let's be nice Invite Take 2
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Trfel
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Trfel
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Trfel
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On January 15 2016 12:19 raynpelikoneet wrote: Are you not planning on continuing the game?Well you could have just PM'd the hosts HF since it seems like you were here 15min before the game start...  I am sorry, especially for Ace. I guess this is not a good idea after all. | ||
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Trfel
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AlotSomuch is town On January 15 2016 09:09 AlotSomuch wrote: I don't feel like this is a post that is natural for mafia to make. In addition to taunting Holyflare, he intentionally messes with his name. Assuming for the moment that Holyflare is town, scum doesn't want to aggravate Holyflare unnecessarily, doing so in this case has no mafia motivation.Think you missed your chance there HoleyFlair ritoky is mafia Ritoky's play doesn't make much sense from a town perspective. He seems to be very disinterested in the game, instead of enjoying it, while implying that he's a bit involved. He's very willing to engage in banter, and answers questions about the game, but he doesn't do anything at all to further the game. + Show Spoiler [examples] + On January 15 2016 09:18 ritoky wrote: He completely ignored all of the thread at the time. I would have expected him as town to directly address Damdred.a former oregon coach is now the coach of the dumpster fire 49ers; finally i can consolihate. great day. On January 15 2016 09:59 Damdred wrote: People having 0 respect for a game going on basically. Hf will swap but if you aren't oh the players list just not right. Anyway rit what do you think of say hf? More than likely town? On January 15 2016 10:04 ritoky wrote: i nothing him. On January 15 2016 11:02 ritoky wrote: Let me tell you a story about something I encountered yesterday. This is a story about a man and his pride. Pride in this sense is being used for its negative meaning. Commonly pride can be used to refer to a sense of satisfaction or attachment to something, but not in this case. Rather we are using it in the sense of an inflated sense of self. The serious thing about pride is that it can cause someone to make irrational decisions or decisions that have much larger consequences out of a misplaced sense of the situation. This is where yesterday falls flat. As Aristotle taught us, pride can be both a virtue and a vice. As such marv rolled an alignment that he felt uncomfortable playing as, and rather than acquiesce to the powers at be he stood up for what he believed was right and what he had pride for: his town play. He refused to be forced to bend to the whims of an RNG machine for the amusement of others. The hosts punished marv for being virtuous. #FreeMarv On January 15 2016 11:04 ritoky wrote: Fellow believers, support me in: The Free Virtuous Marv Petition: 1. ritoky If you too feel that men and women should not be punished for being virtuous reach out to me for support. Mocking Holyflare doesn't do anything to move the game forward, and isn't really funny, either. Ritoky doesn't try to actually get involved or talk to anyone. The clincher is this post: On January 15 2016 09:57 ritoky wrote: Which indicates a surprise of the state of the game. Ritoky doesn't seem to be enjoying the game, as his posts feel very uninspired and flat. Yet he doesn't do anything to further the game. This post:wat the fuck is going on? On January 15 2016 10:04 ritoky wrote: suggests that ritoky is thinking about reads this game, but doesn't follow Damdred's lead to get the game started at all.i nothing him. ##vote ritoky | ||
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Trfel
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On January 15 2016 13:10 raynpelikoneet wrote: Has he? I really wouldn't say that.what's the point when Holyflare has basically confirmed his alignment? Holyflare is more than willing to make ridiculous lies as mafia. | ||
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Trfel
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On January 15 2016 13:18 raynpelikoneet wrote: I guess I have enough faith in humanity to think that Holyflare will allow the game to proceed normally and participate in an acceptable manner (even if not in his normal fashion).Yeah so like he is telling the truth and he is town --> in which case the game is invalid. Or he is mafia --> in which case we should 100% lynch him. Soooo... in any way, the game is invalid. | ||
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Trfel
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On January 15 2016 13:22 raynpelikoneet wrote: It only shows that out-of-game WIFOM isn't always correct.Although i would be perfectly willing to play the game 9vs3 and remove HF. But then again now i think you, Trfel, are scum because of your argument on HF and the lack of thinking on the matter and that is out of game WIFOM case and that's also invalid. I'm more than happy to disprove you in time, tunnel me all you want. | ||
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Which I'm actually kind of serious about. Really. | ||
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On January 15 2016 13:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: And you think that this is mafia motivated because?In other words i think you are trying to make something out of nothing because... because of Holyflare the whole first page of this game is nothing and can't possibly be alignment indicative. Anyway, I need to go to sleep. Good night. | ||
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Trfel
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On January 15 2016 14:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: If you were mafia and you saw absolutely nothing happening in the thread, what would you do?umm.. because you call ritoky mafia for things that doesn't make him mafia? If you were town and you saw absolutely nothing happening in the thread, what would you do? On January 15 2016 16:52 Holyflare wrote: Holyflare, if you didn't like ritoky and then I scumread ritoky, why was my post ridiculous?Well initially I was annoyed and then I didn't like that ritoky and damdred didn't respond to anything meaningfully or even post responses and so I wanted to vote damdred for not even engaging me = mafia. But then trfel came and posted that post which was ridiculous. ##vote trfel And I would absolutely write everything i wrote as mafia so anyone even thinking it makes me an alignment is dumb or mafia (trfel). Also, please explain what you mean by the last sentence? Because that's what I attempted to say (without the last part). On January 15 2016 16:04 AlotSomuch wrote: Please explain how Holyflare showed that he was willing to start talking play?I don't know about Holey. Sure seemed willing to start talking play after wanting to /out. Meh. Assuming you'd die early so it's ok to sign up is awful regardless, and not alignment indicative, but ugh. Gross. I'm buzzed. Or do you mean play as in banter, not gameplay? | ||
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On January 15 2016 16:04 AlotSomuch wrote: Bold emphasis mine.I don't know about Holey. Sure seemed willing to start talking play after wanting to /out. Meh. Assuming you'd die early so it's ok to sign up is awful regardless, and not alignment indicative, but ugh. Gross. I'm buzzed. Please explain how you reach the conclusion in this sentence? | ||
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Trfel
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Many people have said that my post here is very scummy. But no one has explained why. Please explain to me why this post is scummy. | ||
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On January 16 2016 01:40 AlotSomuch wrote: That read makes sense. Thanks for answering my question.You first say that because I misspelled holeyflairs name, I'm probably town because why would mafia try to antagonize him? But I was misspelling everyone's name last game as well. Then when Ritokey is mocking Holeyflair's posts about the mods raping him and consent and such, you ignore what you said made me town and said it made Ritokey scum. That bugged me. The "what the fuck is going" on post was about 2 more people /out'ing if I remember right, which is an appropriate response the game seeming to be ending before it started...again. | ||
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Trfel
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On January 16 2016 01:57 VisceraEyes wrote: I don't know.##Vote: Trfel So let's assume for now that ritoky is never getting lynched today. Let's further assume that you could only kill one of three people, and those three people are the MOST active people in the game so far. Which one would you lynch and why? Raynpelikoneet, how confident are you in your scumread of Holyflare? | ||
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Trfel
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Holyflare is mafia Holyflare's play fits mafia motivation and doesn't have the same drive to solve the game that Holyflare shows as town. No flow to his scumreads + Show Spoiler + On January 15 2016 09:45 Holyflare wrote: Well I'm town but now have 0 time so next time pm me that a new game was gonna start before rolling me into it! ty, gg no re ##vote damdred ^ free mafia On January 15 2016 16:52 Holyflare wrote: Well initially I was annoyed and then I didn't like that ritoky and damdred didn't respond to anything meaningfully or even post responses and so I wanted to vote damdred for not even engaging me = mafia. But then trfel came and posted that post which was ridiculous. ##vote trfel And I would absolutely write everything i wrote as mafia so anyone even thinking it makes me an alignment is dumb or mafia (trfel). On January 15 2016 17:29 Holyflare wrote: (to raynpelikoneet)Yeh you're 100% mafia then. The first post I was annoyed and then saw no reactions and made it into a plan. Quite evident by my posts and my vote on damdred but you're not even looking into that. On January 15 2016 17:41 Holyflare wrote: I mean thinking about it I don't actually dislike trfel all that much anymore. Rayn has easily become top mafioso. It doesn't feel like Holyflare is interested in finding mafia. He seems to be portraying an attitude that is whatever is best for him at the moment, which feels like more playing to survive instead of genuine emotions. On January 15 2016 22:48 Holyflare wrote: This post is a key example of it. Holyflare is scumreading raynpelikoneet, but instead of caring that he caught mafia, he's telling raynpelikoneet why his scumhunting approach as a whole is incorrect.Um no rayn you're dumb. I can tell you my plan whenever I feel like it, I don't have to do it in some guidelines that you lay out, especially when I was asleep and it was impossible. This game is also dumb because artanis confirmed me as town so do what you want with that info. If I was mafia there would be no confusion and it just looks like a mafia rage quit tactic. Now I'm confirmed town. Deal with it bro. You need to stop living in black and white details because I definitely haven't lied once this game. | ||
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On January 16 2016 02:50 Holyflare wrote: On a phone, so I can't really get quotes, but...You don't need to make a fake case to lynch me, just lynch me. Holyflare, you said that you were suspicious of ritoky, and then said that my scumread of ritoky was garbage. Why were you suspicious of ritoky, and why was my read garbage? | ||
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Trfel
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Wow, I should get back to my trumpet playing. Good thing trumpet and mafia go well together. | ||
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Trfel
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If anyone would like to talk about anything, please let me know, I'll try to check back every so often. | ||
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I'm pretty confident of my scumread of Holyflare. I also think that ritoky could be mafia. Yeah, my reads changed a lot, didn't they. @NocturneMage: Why do you think that Holyflare is town? @geript: I felt that AlotSomuch's read here: On January 16 2016 01:40 AlotSomuch wrote: shows some critical thinking. Do you disagree?You first say that because I misspelled holeyflairs name, I'm probably town because why would mafia try to antagonize him? But I was misspelling everyone's name last game as well. Then when Ritokey is mocking Holeyflair's posts about the mods raping him and consent and such, you ignore what you said made me town and said it made Ritokey scum. That bugged me. The "what the fuck is going" on post was about 2 more people /out'ing if I remember right, which is an appropriate response the game seeming to be ending before it started...again. Next job, trying to figure out how explain my Holyflare read. If anyone wants to talk to me, now would be great? I'd like to head out soon, but this game is much more enjoyable when like, actually interacting with people? | ||
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On January 16 2016 10:31 Damdred wrote: I don't have a very good read on him right now. He does feel involved in the game and he's looking into different things, which makes me feel like he is town, but his scumread on AlotSomuch doesn't feel quite right to me yet (pending his answer to my question above), and because I'm not sure how he is reading into drunk posts (though I don't have much experience with drunkenness, so perhaps they're more useful than I thought?).Trfel do you think geript is town? | ||
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Trfel
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Holyflare is mafia because his posting has no direction. It's not focused, it's not trying to find mafia. Holyflare's posting is primarily motivated by survival instead of solving the game. Holyflare said that he didn't like ritoky's posts, and then dropped it. Then he said that Damdred was mafia for not interacting with him, and then dropped that as well. No explanation either time. Then he said that I (Trfel) was mafia for making a bad post. Then he said that raynpelikoneet was mafia for a logical flaw. The important part is how Holyflare goes about these progressions. He doesn't seem to care about his scumreads at all (throwing them away like candy wrappers), he's not encouraging people to lynch his scumreads. His argument with raynpelikoneet seems more focused on trying to argue and make himself look good, rather than getting raynpelikoneet lynched. Examples and further explanations can be provided if necessary. Holyflare, I'd really, really appreciate an answer, to this and also why you were suspicious of ritoky early on? | ||
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Trfel
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On January 16 2016 10:37 Damdred wrote: I'm a bit suspicious of NocturneMage, I feel like his posts are very conforming and don't progress the thread at all.Just depends I think. What about nm and rayn? Raynpelikoneet feels like town. His posting feels more genuine and directional, and it feels like he actually cares about the game. The way he approached his Holyflare townread felt very towny to me (not necessarily what he said, but the post right after it. Raynpelikoneet has been very influential in the game, in contrast to some of the other active posters; he's actually making stuff happen, which I don't think scum would want to do here. | ||
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On January 16 2016 10:44 Ace wrote: The thread is only nine pages, can't you read it?Im back. Voting ends tomorrow right? Besides Holyflare is mafia what else should I be aware of? rayne is still sane right? VE hasn't done any wild gambit yet? Palmer still doing town stuff (allegedly!)? Do you disagree about Palmar doing town stuff? And yes, the day ends tomorrow. | ||
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Thanks! | ||
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On January 17 2016 00:02 Damdred wrote: Damdred, do you think that Holyflare as town wouldn't care enough to not push his reads?When have I ever fear lynched you though hf? I'm prideful enough that I think I can catch you even if I dont, I don't see how your scum here. Your outburst was nai to a degree yes but yeah. I don't think you egg on your lynch as scum as wifom as that is. | ||
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On January 17 2016 00:37 Palmar wrote: For the first part, why? Still just because you want to?we're 100% lynching hf and shooting trfel I'm not really gonna read anything until they're both dead. | ||
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Trfel
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On January 17 2016 00:44 Holyflare wrote: I'm not sure. You're known for your extremely aggressive play as mafia. However, it feels like not pushing your reads makes more sense from mafia than from town to me right now.And you think I as mafia wouldn't want to push my reads? If there's something I'm not understanding, please enlighten me. I'm not good at mafia, but I'm trying to figure things out, and it would be great if you helped me here. | ||
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On January 17 2016 00:47 Damdred wrote: Sorry, here's my thought process, where do you disagree?Basically it's nai because the same argument could be made either way tbh. Could hf do it as scum? Yes. Could he do it as tpwn? Possibly more 're than likely Hf to my knowledge likes to play as scum and town so yeah 1. Holyflare isn't pushing his reads 2. If town doesn't push their reads, then they are not trying to win the game / disinterested in the game 3. If scum doesn't push their reads, this doesn't necessarily matter because their goal is to survive (thus, as long as survival is accomplished, it's perfectly acceptable) | ||
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On January 17 2016 00:51 Damdred wrote: I don't push my reads very much any more. Most people on TL Mafia don't really push their reads. But this is Holyflare we're talking about, not me.Just answer this if you don't want to play a game and sort of trapped in it would you push your reads? Hf probably will be lynched today but idk I think he flips town | ||
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And meh, I'll look through Holyflare's filter again, but it still feels much more mafia-motivated. Maybe I need to read into emotions more and motivation less... or maybe the other way around. Bleh. | ||
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I'd rather not lynch DoYouHas or Cephiro today, they feel very much like coinflips. My thinking is that in a low activity, disinterested game like this, mafia doesn't need to be super involved with the thread and direct people, because town is going to be largely focused on town. So, mafia just wants to be in the background and mostly fit in, but look good enough to avoid suspicion and have the ability to start seriously pushing something if they need to. NocturneMage fits that description very well. The best example of this is how he was townreading Holyflare, but didn't care to explain it (or maybe gave one sentence that didn't really say anything, depending on how you interpret it), and was scumreadaing me (Trfel) and voted me. But he didn't seem to care at all that Holyflare was being lynched and he was the only person voting for me. I guess I'm not sure how to explain it, but to me NocturneMage doesn't feel like disinterested town, but like mafia trying to fit in. What do you think? | ||
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On January 17 2016 01:38 raynpelikoneet wrote: When I make reads, I generally assume that everyone else is town. This is because my reads suck and I only remember one time where I had multiple scumreads at once and at least two were actually scum. Second, I assumed (apparently incorrectly) that AlotSomuch was a smurf from TL mafia.I think you should probably first answer this: I am sorry but i don't really feel like answering you since i think you are scum unless you can reasonably explain this and i don't really feel like arguing with scum about their scumreads. | ||
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On January 17 2016 01:47 raynpelikoneet wrote: I actually had a small town lean on Holyflare at the time. I just didn't think he was confirmed town.But your read is based mostly on Holyflare being town which you didn't think was the case at the time!! It is an associative reads which is terrible in the first place and even the association does not hold up in your mind (since basically the next post of yours is a case on Holyflare being mafia.......) | ||
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On January 17 2016 01:53 raynpelikoneet wrote: Can you explain which posts made you think Holyflare is more likely to be town than mafia at that time? On January 15 2016 10:29 Holyflare wrote: Mostly this thing, I've seen Holyflare do things like this before as town (or third party playing like town) but never as mafia. Holyflare is generally a bit more to the point as mafia, from my experience. I started scumreading Holyflare based on what he did when he started playing the game a bit more seriously.Let me tell you a story about something I encounter in day to day work. This is a story about consent and the lack thereof. Consent is the permission for something to take place. Commonly consent is used in regards to a sexual nature and lack of consent leads to a charge called rape. The serious thing about consent is that it can be given or taken away at ANY time and equally importantly if you consent ONCE it does not mean you consent EVERY time. This is where the game falls flat. I consented to be in one game and theorised that because I am so good and have little time that I will either roll town and die n1 or roll mafia and have an afk excuse. Now, that game I consented to is gone and in this game the days don't align with me and I'm just not feeling the sexual arousal needed so you did not have my consent. The hosts have raped me. | ||
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On January 17 2016 01:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: This is not true at all, what gives you this idea?Actually judging from your case you started scumreading Holyflare when he made his vote on Damdred.... | ||
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On January 17 2016 02:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: My interpretation of that post changed based as Holyflare did more (or rather, didn't...), and as I thought about it differently.It is a part of your case. Unless you decided to quote a post in your case which is NOT part of your case. Initially I had no problems with it, however as Holyflare posted more reads, I felt that he was making a ton of scumreads and not actually caring about them. This is not a conclusion that could be made until Holyflare made more posts (including showing that he was actually caring about the game). | ||
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On January 17 2016 02:09 raynpelikoneet wrote: This is a general pattern for people, what don't you understand?How the fuck can you come to a conclusion this could be alignment indicative in ANY way???? Especially in the direction you claim. People as town will tend to be a bit more carefree and do whatever they want, people as scum are more focused on only doing what is necessary (generally making reads). I also feel that this is true for Holyflare. See Aperture 4, see the game where he was trying to run a gameshow. See his scum games, he's largely focused on the game. However, it's something that is possible to replicate as mafia, so it's only a little bit town indicative as a trend, instead of proof. | ||
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On January 17 2016 02:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: I didn't townread him for being angry and saying that he had no time to play. I townread him for doing things that aren't strictly necessary from a mafia perspective.I mean like if you townread him for being angry and not playing properly in a sense that he doesn't really care then you assume he is telling the truth about having no time to play (beyond the surface level) and then his play after that perfectly fits this narrative. But then.. you scumread him for it? In this game, Holyflare made a bunch of posts that didn't directly further his plan, notably the one I quoted. A direct route to accomplishing the same thing would have been: "I think that Damdred is mafia because of xyz. I don't have much time to play because changing the game start by one day really affects my availability with respect to the deadlines." Thus, I had a town lean on Holyflare. Then, Holyflare made several scum reads at different points, causing me to think that he didn't care about his reads, as I described in my first post about him. This is much stronger than my initial town lean, and also, Holyflare scumreading 3 people and having zero townreads showed a more "direct" approach from a mafia perspective, changing my initial read. | ||
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I never said that I townread him because he said he doesn't have time to play properly. That has nothing to do with my read on Holyflare. His focus on scumreads was not scummy in and of itself, however it was contrary to the point that made me think he might be town earlier, which was the indirect approach. Also, when I say focus, I mean focus on scumreads relative to townreads. His scum reads weren't focused at all, they were more random, it felt like throwing darts on a dartboard and hoping that something stuck. If you still don't understand this, then I really don't know what to say. This is very simple and I have no clue how you keep saying things that simply are not true. | ||
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On January 17 2016 02:29 raynpelikoneet wrote: Um, that's exactly what I was doing, or at least trying to do.Which is kinda ridiculous since it seems like you are not really scumreading him for his actual actions but the motivation behind it. If I'm reading your statement correctly, then it's probably the biggest compliment I've ever received for my mafia play, so thank you. | ||
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On January 17 2016 02:38 raynpelikoneet wrote: What?Here is a post you say you townread Holyflare for: The post literally says "i don't have time to play properly". If you townread Holyflare for this post (which is what you said), i assume you also think he is telling the truth in what he says in this post. And then you claim this bullshit? I am not saying you townread him FOR not having time to play properly. I am saying you MUST believe this BECAUSE you townread him. And then again we come to this. You believe HF has no time to play properly -> he does what's BEST to do if he tells the truth here and is town (which is what you believe) -> you scumread him for it. It doesn't make any sense. Just because I townread someone for a post doesn't mean that I believe everything they said in the post. Like, if you made a joke about supporting Donald Trump, I might townread you for it, but I would certainly hope you didn't actually mean what you said. (yes, I'm actually being political for once )My townread on Holyflare was primarily based on that post, but the statement that he had no time to play properly had NOTHING to do with it. I expect town with limited time to care about the game just as much as town with infinite time. Holyflare's play doesn't show a lack of time to play the game (I mean, he's posted less than he normally does, but whatever. That's not important). Instead, it shows disinterest, and that he doesn't care about lynching his scumreads. Which is completely different from time issues. | ||
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I've spent this past hour arguing about something I don't care about so that I can try to get someone to talk about my scumread. Can we just lynch mafia instead of wasting time? | ||
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Can we just ignore raynpelikoneet and lynch mafia? | ||
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On January 17 2016 08:05 DoYouHas wrote: Let's do this thing Well I guess my question doesn't matter anymore. @Trfel, I agree with you that NM has a good chance of flipping scum. Let me gather up my thoughts to try and convince people. ##Vote: NocturnMage  You go first, then I'll go afterwards if it's needed. | ||
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On January 17 2016 08:16 NocturneMage wrote: I'm honestly not sure what you are trying to say here, do you mind rephrasing this more simply/directly?Not considering material (or not furthering why what I've laid out since you last AFKed that it's scummy) and keeping the same stance doesn't make you look any more townie at all. | ||
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I felt that Palmar is town for meta reasons, but I should probably look again at Assassination Mafia, my meta could be incorrect. | ||
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On January 17 2016 08:26 VisceraEyes wrote: If you must know, I was attempting to save a game that I was worried would need to be aborted, again.It's based on how you gave your original mafia read and based on how you're approaching the game so far. I don't know if you responded to my original point or not, I haven't fully read the thread, but it was basically that your initial accusation post felt weak and obligatory. About half of my reasons to scumread ritoky were fluff, about half were genuine reasons. Did they warrant a vote? No. Was I actually suspicious of him? Yes, but I have learned from experience that if I say the level of suspicion that I actually feel, no one listens because I'm apparently too wishy-washy to talk to. I've been trying to solve the game and work with people throughout, so I'm not sure what you mean when you say that my approach to the game is scummy. | ||
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On January 17 2016 08:29 NocturneMage wrote: I don't know. I'm starting to remember some things that make me less sure that you are mafia, though, so I really need to look into that more.I'm not, and when I flip town, where will you go after that? Also IIRC Palmar's meta is finding mafia day 1 or being scum for not progressing the game. If you maintain he's town for meta reasons and he's policy lynching HF over a scum read (you) and you're town, why would you be townreading him? Or if your understanding of his meta is different from mine, then what is it? My perception of Palmar's meta is that as mafia he is serious and as town he is not. Basically just that, but relative to Palmar's play. That's why he was mafia in Outlaw Mafia (to me, anyway), because overall he was serious and actually playing the game as it's intended to be played. To answer your previous question, I did read the thread (if a bit quickly, there's some time pressure...), and I read your posts. And I still think that you are mafia, though I'm double-checking that read. Yes, I found several things about your more recent posts suspicious, but I don't share every suspicious thing that I see unless I feel that there is a point to it. | ||
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On January 17 2016 08:44 NocturneMage wrote: Um, my read is entirely correct.Here's the thing, the reason I'm asking you this is accountability. You're driving a mislynch one way or another. DYH I can't tell at the moment if he's town having a bad read on me because he's just not been in this game or if he's mafia trying to get the easiest ML he can manage. And Trfel if you are town, then I think you're not entirely accurate on the Palmar meta. He trolled the shit out of people in Outlaw, and in Down Under 3 from obsing I recall him being more serious yelling at people who didn't follow him. It's a faulty reason to town him in your worldview. Palmar didn't troll at all in Outlaw Mafia (at least not in the first three days, pretty sure he didn't after that, either). At least, not relative to Palmar, anyway. An example of Palmar trolling is shown in Down Under 2, where Palmar was talking to two or three other Palmars. Another example of Palmar trolling is shown in Linux Mafia, where he mocked the recently released movie "The Interview" by drawing attention to himself without furthering the game in any way. It's not something I can explain, you'd have to read it to believe it. | ||
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VisceraEyes, remind me, what is your read on Palmar? You know him a lot better than I do. | ||
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On January 17 2016 08:52 VisceraEyes wrote: Please explain why Holyflare's vote switch is scummy?Hmmmm....If it were anyone but Holyflare I'd probably let that slide. Holyflare you're going to have to give me a really fast really compelling reason to let you live after that. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On January 17 2016 08:55 VisceraEyes wrote: He was voting for raynpelikoneet.Was he not voting for himself? I thought that was allowed these days. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
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Trfel
7015 Posts
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Trfel
7015 Posts
Raynpelikoneet, why were you townreading Palmar again? | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
Thanks for the description of why AlotSomuch is mafia, I hadn't thought of it like that. I'll take a closer look this evening. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
I wasn't planning on doing much tonight, but I guess I can try to answer questions if anyone has them. I will go to get lunch soon, and I'll be gone for a few hours before End of Night, but otherwise I'll probably be here. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
I realized that I was being stupid and that my read was bad, so I changed my read to make it correct. If that makes me scum, then that's fine with me. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
I decided that it would be pretty stupid for Holyflare to play mafia in this way, and that this was more important than the mafia motivation that I was seeing. The mafia motivation also made more sense from a town perspective, the more I thought about it. My initial read was bad. I mean, do you want me to explain why that read was bad, because I thought that it was obvious? | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
At that point, I was very confident in Holyflare as town. I felt that the way he came back was very towny (at least, it fit the town perspective for him), and especially how my "Holyflare is mafia" hypothesis relied on Holyflare playing to survive. I wouldn't call nearly being lynched on Day 1 a good survival plan as mafia, if Holyflare actually cared to survive he wouldn't cut it anywhere near that close. Basically if he's mafia, then he has no gameplan at all, so it makes so much more sense for Holyflare to be town. Palmar seemed like the only alternative. A few people that I trusted wanted to lynch him, so I checked through his filter and didn't see the things that made me townread him earlier. And then VisceraEyes (one of the people who knows Palmar best, at least I'm almost positive of this) said that he'd lynch Palmar, so I voted for him. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
If not, I'm sorry, but would you mind humoring me and talk about something else for a bit, and come back to me later? | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
I wasn't aware that raynpelikoneet had a read on Palmar. I only took notice when raynpelikoneet started saying Palmar was town like a minute before the deadline, but he didn't explain why and there wasn't much I could do at that point. Even so, I had a townread on VisceraEyes, and I don't really trust people's townreads when I don't understand why they're a strong read. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On January 18 2016 05:12 Damdred wrote: I'm kind of thinking that he is town because instead of doing nothing (if Holyflare is town) or lynching me (if Holyflare is mafia), he pushed on NocturneMage. There's no reason why this couldn't come from mafia, however the way he does it feels natural and towny to me, and I'm fine with a town lean on him for now.Well what do you think of dyh? Do you think his tr on you is good coming from his position? I do have a problem with Cephiro's town read of me, though... On January 17 2016 08:18 Cephiro wrote: The things that he says here, while true, are exactly the opposite of why everyone else was scumreading me. It's not like DoYouHas, who townreads me for different reasons, but he townreads me for the exact same things that other people are scumreading me for, with exactly the opposite interpretations. That just seems.... yeah.Question for overall thread sentiment since there's still quite a decent amount of votes on Trfel.. I can see how his cases aren't exactly the most rock solid ones, but am I missing something really obvious? Other than him being somewhat wishywashy, I can't find any ill intent as in intentionally trying to make a player look off worse than what they are. There's a difference between cases not being perfect and cases manipulated with bad intentions, and I honestly don't see the latter when I look at Trfel's play. It doesn't feel coming from mafia at all, being very co-operative, not shitting the thread up while posting a lot (he seems to be trying to create useful discussion or progress the thread in most posts of his?). So why is he one of the main lynch targets w/ 3 votes? Going to wait for the NM case(s), and would like to hear more opinions about my case/push on Alot. I still think what I said makes sense, and feel it'd be pretty unnatural for a townie to act as such. Do people really think he has been trying to make things happen instead of contently doing enough to give the impression he's participating? | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
What are your thoughts about ritoky? + Show Spoiler [my thoughts] + I kind of feel like he is town because he really wants to keep his mafia record good, but he's rolled mafia a lot lately and I'm not sure if he suffers from scum fatigue? And mostly just because every time I townread ritoky, it's wrong T.T But I still want to townread him anyway? I'm also a bit suspicious of geript, because last time I played with him, he was really really smart. His reads had this special feel to them and they were so insightful. I know he doesn't necessarily play like that every game as town, but here, his reads feel a bit dull, and but he's actually trying. I'm not sure if that makes him mafia or not, but I don't really like it... Thoughts? | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
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Trfel
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There was one key thing that made me really hesitant to shoot Cephiro instead. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
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Trfel
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On January 18 2016 09:59 Damdred wrote: To be honest, that was why I didn't directly ask you about NocturneMage. In retrospect that was probably not the best decision, I was probably already caught or wasn't going to be.I don't think you would of been lynched today trfel. You softed super hard at night. Maybe my trfel reading is getting better at least What was it that I did? Just trying to figure things out, or did I slip? | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
I'm probably going to take a break tonight and think about this some more tomorrow. I had a list of four "scummy people": Cephiro, geript, AlotSomuch, and NocturneMage, so I guess that leaves me with three. I guess I should add raynpelikoneet to the list, and I guess I'll check Holyflare again just because he's Holyflare Side note, is VisceraEyes actually super town? Because I was a bit suspicious of him too. His activity seems a bit higher than normal (barring perhaps Assassination Mafia), but the way he treated his Palmar read was extremely strange to me. Tonally he seems towny, but I've read his town as towny when he was mafia before. So I'm not so sure about him. | ||
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Trfel
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Trfel
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