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Vivax has a good potential of being mafia here. This is his filter for reference.http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/492282-tl-mafia-lxxii-gaiden-2?user=Vivax
He has given one read the entire first day: Lynch Trfel. The only other thing I can tell from Vivax's posting is that he may wish to lynch Wave, considering his last few posts asking about Waves read on me flipping.
The question remains: what has Vivax done in-between? Most of it is asking questions. I'm not talking important questions, I'm seeing relatively useless questions which probably would not serve to strengthen Vivax's reads if he were town. Vivax's play consists mostly of asking questions which he never gets the answers to, doesn't follow up on, in addition to failing to give reads. Doesn't so much as comment on the JAT/Palmar stuff (he did once, to +1 one of my posts). I don't understand what Vivax's game plan here is if he's town.
If you are in the thread now please read Vivax and let me know what you think. He's just skating by today. I want to see what Hopeless does after he reads the thread.
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Also Palmar is playing very badly if he is town, he needs to reevaluate his top scumread pronto. If he comes to the same conclusion: fantastic, I just need the evidence he believes is noteworthy so I can actually read him town.
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It's a shame I don't have more hard-town reads. Would make this game much easier. I want to believe both Palmar and Marv are town, but Marv is insisting that I am mafia and hasn't done anything remarkable outside of being largely active. His logic on me is not bad, but it is wrong. I'm flipflopping on Wave. Moosy seems pretty townie and is oddly enough one of my only townreads. JAT is actually trying now which makes me happy, but I wish it came earlier in the day. VE? Trfel? Kels? Could go either way still. I just want people to die, flip, and then reevaluate. I will say this about Rsoultin: for someone who has quantitatively posted a lot, I can't remember much of what she's said other than kill JAT and some stuff about me. She is probably just town, and I'm willing to go with that for a few days.
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On August 28 2015 02:45 KelsierSC wrote:
Again reasonable questions
I don't understand why you changed your read on CC, your explanation is woefully inadequate
I still don't understand what you want to do with JAT, you made a big post that concluded nothing , apparently this is like you being 100% town in your own words, but I want a TLDR version of it.
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Kels we should probably talk
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On August 28 2015 03:03 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Kels we should probably talk
that's never a good thing to hear
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I'm pretty sure Kesier and Moosy are town. I like the cases against Hopeless and the trfel more than the one against JAT at the moment. I'm gonna read a bit more and make a decision.
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Mr. CC
I like his filter a lot less than the individual posts when he made them. It is full of inconsistencies.
On August 26 2015 22:09 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Rsoultin is town because she (?? Haven't played in so long and this is a new face, heard this person was female somewhere but I know those rarely exist on the internet) was excited to begin the day off and start metaphorically poking people with sticks. I really want to give MoosyDoosy a townread for: Show nested quote +On August 26 2015 11:20 MoosyDoosy wrote:
whew, i thought DMLE Investigator was a role and started shitting my pants until I re-looked over the OP and saw it was VT in this game. so I think I will. VE is def town because he is withholding information. As odd as that sounds, I'd think mafia would be more self-conscious about coming out early in the day and claiming to have some reads but refuse to give them until an unspecified later time. Palmar and Marv are both probably town, I'll figure it out later. Palmar more town than Marv because he likes Rsoultin as town.
Those are way too many townreads for that point in the game and they are all very easily given. The people are also all pretty likely town NOW. But at that time it wasn't this obvious. Might be tmi.
On August 26 2015 22:16 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Palmar just thinks JAT is mafia because he think JAT has a poor read, or poor reasoning for Trfel to be mafia. That doesn't make jat mafia.
On August 26 2015 22:56 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2015 22:53 rsoultin wrote:On August 26 2015 22:46 MoosyDoosy wrote:On August 26 2015 22:45 rsoultin wrote:On August 26 2015 22:43 MoosyDoosy wrote:On August 26 2015 22:42 KelsierSC wrote:On August 26 2015 22:40 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
wait Marv what is your read on JAT? Like me, you didn't think his question was dumb The question wasn't the best question ever but I don't think the case on him is that good at the moment it comes down to that q and him not being "jatty" Yeah this. I don't really see much on JAT. If he's mafia, he'll still be mafia later in the day anyway. I think we should focus on Trfel rite now. truffle's probably town with the stipulation that he didn't make me laugh :/ I'd still like an answer to why he asked for an opinion on marv when there was literally almost nothing that marv had posted. I feel like it's getting punted to the side while people are trying to kill JAT. several games (2-3 that i'm aware of?) palmar has caught scum!marv off of about that many posts and lynched him d1. jat is not unaware of this (he was in at least one of those games) so it's not a ridiculous thing for truffle to say it is however a ridiculous thing for jat to latch onto, and most especially a ridiculous thing to be the only thing jat latches onto +1
On August 26 2015 23:31 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2015 23:28 KelsierSC wrote:
like here is my issue with the whole thing
"palmar caught marv in some games off like 2 posts so im waiting for palmar's thoughts on marv"
for one thing JAT might not have known this was the case, trefl didn't even say this was the reason he wanted to get palmar's thoughts and even if JAT did know this happened he might have forgotten about it.
with this in mind JAT asking trefl to explain his point isn't bad at all. I think we can all agree that JAT asking the question isn't very bad at all from an objective standpoint. Except Palmar.
On August 26 2015 23:00 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2015 22:58 MoosyDoosy wrote:On August 26 2015 22:53 rsoultin wrote:On August 26 2015 22:46 MoosyDoosy wrote:On August 26 2015 22:45 rsoultin wrote:On August 26 2015 22:43 MoosyDoosy wrote:On August 26 2015 22:42 KelsierSC wrote:On August 26 2015 22:40 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
wait Marv what is your read on JAT? Like me, you didn't think his question was dumb The question wasn't the best question ever but I don't think the case on him is that good at the moment it comes down to that q and him not being "jatty" Yeah this. I don't really see much on JAT. If he's mafia, he'll still be mafia later in the day anyway. I think we should focus on Trfel rite now. truffle's probably town with the stipulation that he didn't make me laugh :/ I'd still like an answer to why he asked for an opinion on marv when there was literally almost nothing that marv had posted. I feel like it's getting punted to the side while people are trying to kill JAT. several games (2-3 that i'm aware of?) palmar has caught scum!marv off of about that many posts and lynched him d1. jat is not unaware of this (he was in at least one of those games) so it's not a ridiculous thing for truffle to say it is however a ridiculous thing for jat to latch onto, and most especially a ridiculous thing to be the only thing jat latches onto This makes more sense and actually has the resemblance of an actual case. So your definition of an "actual case" is that JAT latched onto a particular statement that Trfel gave and it was the only thing he did. I agree that it's odd, and I'd probably lynch JAT if it was the only thing he did in an entire 48-hour period. However, you seem to be just looking for reasons to find JAT scummy.
Those are the post that made me feel like his play is too clean. He is immediately 100 % right and really confident about it too. Not the slightest doubt visible. Notice however how the "+1" post doesn't fit in at all. Normally I would say he misread rsoultins post or made a similar mistake and it is possible that this is the case but he keeps messing up like this as you can see in the very next post. Somehow now it is odd for me to latch onto it while earlier he was absolutely sure that this did not make me scum at all.
On August 27 2015 06:54 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
JAT I need your top scumread. I could lynch you because I think you are being objectively scummy by sulking that Palmar is being a meanie pants. So if you're town please brush yourself off and behind anew like a phoenix rising from it's ashes. Produce all that content that others are not providing.
Then there is this post and it literally oozes the knowledge/expectation that I WILL in fact rise from the ashes. It still looks very much like CC knows I am town.
On August 27 2015 04:53 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2015 00:55 WaveofShadow wrote:On August 27 2015 00:11 WaveofShadow wrote:
Catching up.
Frigging euro dominated game ##unvoteShould have just said marv/Palmar dominated game. Which is fine I suppose since they're both extremely likely to be town at this point. Let's see. Welcome back CC. First thoughts are that he's town because I remember him posting similarly to this in a couple of towngames we played together, that being said there is ONE old-as-hell scumgame of his I want to look back at (where he ragequit eventually 'cause his team was shitty or something?) because what someone (marv?) said about him being more coherent as scum could be true but I truly don't remember. 2-year-old meta meh anyway but I have re-embraced the use of meta recently to decent effect so we'll see. Tentative townread for the moment. Rsoul extremely likely to be town from interactions. Scummiest people stand out to me as JAT because the last time I remember Palmar going like this on anyone, it was on me when I was scum when nobody else ever catches me. Moosy because pocketing efforts when I am the only one in this game he knows to be 'good.' I say 'good' because I have been SUPER on point in the last whole bunch of games I've played (as both alignments for once) and Moosy correctly realizes that I could be a threat based on that. Which brings me to On August 26 2015 23:14 marvellosity wrote:On August 26 2015 23:13 Palmar wrote:
Wave is a shitty has-been player anyway can't be a has-been if you're a never-was ^ wow, what a bitch Fucking brutal guys. Is all of that really necessary? I actually have gained some confidence in my play for once and I refuse to let it be crushed by the likes of you. Unfortunately the fact that I'm not here means if either of the aforementioned are scum I won't have contributed at all to their lynches which is super bleh. ##vote: JAT This post makes Wave scum. Specifically, the text in bold. Wave comes back to the thread to see the popular scum-candidate JAT sitting on a wagon driven by Palmar. His read takes no consideration for JAT's actions this game. In fact, he says he respects Palmar's play enough on day 1 to sheep him without regard. Wave claims that he has gained some confidence in his play. If wave truly has gained confidence in his play (I.E. reads), then why is he letting Palmar, who may very well be mafia or just plain wrong about JAT, decide the lynch for him? Wave is blindly assuming that Palmar is town and correct without A) Assessing the lynch candidates motivations / actions and B) Looking at Palmar's push in and of itself. He doesn't even quote a post by Palmar and agree with the reasons. ##Vote: Wave
Show nested quote +On August 27 2015 01:03 WaveofShadow wrote:On August 27 2015 01:01 justanothertownie wrote:
Ok, Wave is voting me because Palmar caught HIM as mafia in the past. Makes a huge post and talks about everything but me except for this statement. This might be the first mafia joining the push. You're sweet. I'm way better at scum than to blindly sheep. I've only ever been officially caught ONCE as scum and it was by Palmar, therefore I afford him a measure of respect on his D1 bullshit, enough to sheep him on what appears to be a fairly decent read. JAT hits the nail on the head here. Wave's defense against this is basically "I'm better than this", which I find lazy. Regardless, Wave still fails to situate why he thinks Palmar's case is good. Show nested quote +On August 27 2015 01:28 WaveofShadow wrote:
I don't really have much to say about that specifically.
Palmar and marv have a super special bromance together that I can't explain accurately in any real detail. The way it seems to me is that Palmar tosses out reads super early just 'cause, some of which may be accurate and some of which might not be but he sticks with them and forces them if necessary, and re-evaluates in secret. In the scumgame where he caught me even though he forced his read on me all game he was actually constantly re-evaluating based on what was going on in game as was evidenced by his posting.
For a read on marv if I had to guess it's easier to assume he's town (even based on very little/nothing) and take it back later on if he just so happens to be wrong, but all of the posting they have done has in all likelihood shown that he is right.
As for how this relates to Trfel/rsoul.....dunno. When Wave extrapolates upon how Palmar plays, he admits that Palmar's early reads are 'just 'cause' and may/may not be accurate. How can Wave seriously think JAT is his top scumread / top vote for the day if he: 1) Has not evaluated JAT's actions, or explained why Palmar's case is good 2) Knows that Palmar's early reads are often 'just cause' 3) Is not sure of Palmar's alignment? It makes no sense to me. Palmar may have caught Wave as scum day 1 in another game and he respects him, but this course of action is scummy regardless of how you package it. It's incredibly convenient if JAT flips town, and then Wave can take no responsibility for the lynch. All I want you to answer @WaveofShadow: Why is Palmar's case good. Not Rsoultin's, or anyone else's, but Palmar's case. What does Palmar say that is convincing and makes the case against JAT generate a "fairly decent read"?
I really liked this post about Wave earlier. But I realize now that it's probably because CC is only rehashing things I said about Wave earlier without really adding anything to it. I was blinded by the fact that someone agreed with me. The fact that those are basically all my own points on wave also explains that I only remembered my own points against Wave later on and didn't mention this again. In general like I said earlier CC seems to be parroting me a lot.
If you read his filter you will also notice that basically the whole thing is him talking to Wave. I first thought this would mean they aren't both mafia and this may be true. But ten I remembered a quiet game of mafia where talking to his scummate was literally all CC did day1 so they probably could still be scum together (which would also fit the tmi/CC too protown to be town theory).
My conclusion is that CC is pretty scummy actually and will certainly not make the list.
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I'm still somewhat suspicious of VisceraEyes?
The fact that he completely dropped his read on WaveofShadow and now seems to be treating him as town, without saying anything, confuses me. Or am I missing something here?
He also didn't even address the points I brought up about him.
I like that he pushed his reads on Mr. Cheesecake and myself, but I don't think this makes him town.
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On August 28 2015 03:05 deconduo wrote:
I'm pretty sure Kesier and Moosy are town. I like the cases against Hopeless and the trfel more than the one against JAT at the moment. I'm gonna read a bit more and make a decision.
so you would only lynch between hopeless and trefl?
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Wave literally admits he never read JAT/Palmar's reasons / read the thread, hence this statement: "I had the idea going into this that JAT was completely unreasonable and only did stuff when prodded a couple hours ago but that honestly seems to be untrue." He does reevaluate JAT, but is still voting for him because Palmar.
Wave is like textbook mafia. However, the book itself has faded print, torn pages, and most know the words by heart.
Does he get angry as both alignments? Does he become this stubborn about sticking with Palmar as town?
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Oh god rsoultin is next. Will skip it for the same reason I skipped Palmar.
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On August 28 2015 03:10 justanothertownie wrote:
Oh god rsoultin is next. Will skip it for the same reason I skipped Palmar.
lol
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On August 28 2015 03:09 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2015 03:05 deconduo wrote:
I'm pretty sure Kesier and Moosy are town. I like the cases against Hopeless and the trfel more than the one against JAT at the moment. I'm gonna read a bit more and make a decision. so you would only lynch between hopeless and trefl?
At the moment yeah. The case against JAT just feels the same as the case against ruxxar in TSM.
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On August 28 2015 03:07 Trfel wrote:
I'm still somewhat suspicious of VisceraEyes?
The fact that he completely dropped his read on WaveofShadow and now seems to be treating him as town, without saying anything, confuses me. Or am I missing something here?
He also didn't even address the points I brought up about him.
I like that he pushed his reads on Mr. Cheesecake and myself, but I don't think this makes him town.
hmm well VE gave reasons for dropping wave as mafia, so you are missing somethign yes
i think VE made points about you which you should answer
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On August 28 2015 03:13 deconduo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2015 03:09 KelsierSC wrote:On August 28 2015 03:05 deconduo wrote:
I'm pretty sure Kesier and Moosy are town. I like the cases against Hopeless and the trfel more than the one against JAT at the moment. I'm gonna read a bit more and make a decision. so you would only lynch between hopeless and trefl? At the moment yeah. The case against JAT just feels the same as the case against ruxxar in TSM.
I mean why do you like the case on hopeless anyway, because wave is pushing it? do you town read him?
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Nobody is looking at Vivax right now.
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On August 28 2015 03:17 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Nobody is looking at Vivax right now.
I think he would be a good lynch aswell
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On August 28 2015 03:17 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Nobody is looking at Vivax right now.
I think you are wrong about that.
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On August 28 2015 03:18 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2015 03:17 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Nobody is looking at Vivax right now. I think you are wrong about that.
Why is Vivax town?
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EPT
