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So when I was looking at Fidei earlier I couldn't help but notice one of his pregame posts and something he said in his defense.
On August 20 2015 07:21 Fidei86 wrote:
(8) I want to briefly address whether or not Ritoky would pretend to RNG me. I've played with Ritoky twice, but the second (himalayas) doesn't count because I was terrible town in that game until way after he got NKed. But in the first game, which was my first game too, basically I made all sorts of stupid newbie posts and mistakes and ritoky was scum softing me until he got NKed n1. I also said after himalayas that I really struggled because the game was big (although there was much much much more spam in tha game). This game is also big. So I think it's reasonable that he might have tagged me early as easy mis-lynch bait. The fact that I played into his hands with a pretty misguided thread entry only goes to show that he might have been onto something. But ... meh. It's hard for me to judge because he's going after me, so it's difficult to be totally objective. Anyone who was in Holy Guardians (VE, Damdred, TickTock) are better judges of this than me.
From Pregame:
On August 13 2015 17:41 Fidei86 wrote:
I'm going to stay in this game, even though it's bigger than I'd like, and will rely upon rolling masons with HTS or some shit to keep me sane through D3.
So yea, this is very possible. Obviously this lead me to reading ritoky's filter from the perspective of him being scum pushing the RNG thing as a cover to push someone he thinks will be an easy mislynch.
At first it looks promising as it was all rit wanted to talk about in the first half of D1 and even now that I see rit talking about more than his RNG push he isn't really sharing any reads.
However I did feel that this defense of the RNG push was pretty decent.
On August 19 2015 13:41 ritoky wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2015 13:20 Breshke wrote:On August 19 2015 13:10 ObiWanShinobi wrote:On August 19 2015 12:41 Breshke wrote:On August 19 2015 12:32 ObiWanShinobi wrote:On August 19 2015 12:12 Breshke wrote:
I don't think ritoky actually RNG'd fidel He probably did. On August 19 2015 07:08 ritoky wrote:
Clearly what needs to happen this game is that we need to follow the most surefire way to lynch mafia and win games, and that is to follow the RNG lynch.
Here's how it works:
1) you will all follow me because i am better than you.
2) i will choose who we lynch every phase via RNG, then we will lynch him without question. the RNG will be determined by this post (the one you're reading right now). each post is assigned a unique id on team liquid which cannot be manipulated because of the rate of posts on TL; this makes it the perfect candidate for determining people via RNG. then from that post id i will use the following formula to determine whom is the candidate for lynch:
(sum of each individual digit in the post id [ex: 1111 = 4]) / 21 [number of players alive in game] * coefficient of the thread's stupidity
this formula will provide a number from 1 to 21, we will lynch the player it determines without hesitation or questioning. no possible explanation or reasoning could convince me that RNG lynching is in any way sub-optimal play. please bow before the RNG and watch it carry us to victory. I don't think so given this explanation I at first thought this was really scummy because if he was town why the fuck does he make this bullshit crap reason up to explain his "RNG" and not just be like yeah i used random.org But it makes sense in a world where he is trying to be BH and trying to be idk the word long winded? and he couldn't remember the way/couldnt be bothered doing it the way BH does it. So he is either a fucking shitter or scum Not to say his following read on fidel is bad but I don't wanna talk about that until fidel has been around some more Bh makes longish arguments backing his rng lynches all the time. Totally normal. That's why i was saying it makes sense if that is in fact what he was doing On August 19 2015 13:14 ObiWanShinobi wrote:On August 19 2015 12:50 Breshke wrote:On August 19 2015 12:46 JudgeJudy wrote:On August 19 2015 12:41 Breshke wrote:On August 19 2015 12:32 ObiWanShinobi wrote:On August 19 2015 12:12 Breshke wrote:
I don't think ritoky actually RNG'd fidel He probably did. On August 19 2015 07:08 ritoky wrote:
Clearly what needs to happen this game is that we need to follow the most surefire way to lynch mafia and win games, and that is to follow the RNG lynch.
Here's how it works:
1) you will all follow me because i am better than you.
2) i will choose who we lynch every phase via RNG, then we will lynch him without question. the RNG will be determined by this post (the one you're reading right now). each post is assigned a unique id on team liquid which cannot be manipulated because of the rate of posts on TL; this makes it the perfect candidate for determining people via RNG. then from that post id i will use the following formula to determine whom is the candidate for lynch:
(sum of each individual digit in the post id [ex: 1111 = 4]) / 21 [number of players alive in game] * coefficient of the thread's stupidity
this formula will provide a number from 1 to 21, we will lynch the player it determines without hesitation or questioning. no possible explanation or reasoning could convince me that RNG lynching is in any way sub-optimal play. please bow before the RNG and watch it carry us to victory. I don't think so given this explanation ![[image loading]](http://media1.giphy.com/media/14kWsgozAwOtoc/giphy.gif) That doesn't make sense. If you say he didn't RNG fidel, that would mean he had a reason to single out fidel. Fidel had no posts at the point where he claimed to have RNG'd him. So what would be the selection criteria? Are you saying he selected a weak player to go after or something? Your reasoning doesn't seem fluid/natural which is scummy. Explain to me how given this formula (sum of each individual digit in the post id [ex: 1111 = 4]) / 21 [number of players alive in game] * coefficient of the thread's stupidity ritoky can RNG a number between 1 and 21. When the "coefficient of the thread's stupidity" would have to be a number chosen by himself as he couldn't put fucking infinity into this becouse that wouldnt give him a number between 1 and 21. SO YES I AM SAYING HE LIED ABOUT HOW HE RNG'D OR HE SPECIFICALLY CHOSE FIDEL. Do i have a reason why he chose fidel? No. But from what he has said i don't see how he could have rng'd him. What do you fail to understand here Bh used the exact same algorithm or whatever in FF. Is FF fantasy football mafia? Because this is BH's explanation of his RNG lynch. For RNG, this post will be used for generating a random lynch. The # in the upper left corner can be right-clicked and used to access the absolute TL post # for this post. That number mod 9 is the random lynch. 1 =Oats, 2 = rayn, etc, all the way up to 8 = holyflare and 0 = sloosh.
The reason we use the absolute TL post number is that posts are constantly being made, so the number is truly random. We turn it into a number 1-14 by taking that number mod 14. What is mod? effectively, it's the remainder after division. For example. 13 mod 14 = 13. 14 mod 14 = 0. 18 mod 14 = 4. 19 mod 14 = 5. and so on.
Basically, this generates a random number 1 through 14. I am in favor of the random lynch (though am somewhat interested in a policy lynch today as well-- TL does not do this enough. I will start off by voting for the random lynched based on THIS POST.
This is not what ritoky did. The methods you have outlined here are clearly outdated and old fashioned. We have a database that compiles statistics and choosing not to compile those statistical tendencies into your RNG formula is very poor judgment, irresponsible, and poo pooing on those who work so hard to compile said statistics. Although it is a secret formula, I will share it with you. People are stupid when they lose, thus the coefficient of the thread's stupidity is: the inverse of the average of all players' winrates. or 1/[(sum of players winrates)/(total players)]. Plugging this value into the equation gives you 4.114, which I have rounded based on standard mathematical practices to 4. + Show Spoiler +
It makes sense, it's cleaver and it fits with the overall theme of the game. Honestly this sounds a ton more likely than a scum!ritoky seeing Fidei's pregame post and deciding to push him with RNG.
The fact of the matter is rit only claimed something more than RNG after Fidei entered the game, and did so in a fashion that made himself look bad. Thus I find myself still thinking the case rit made is fairly sexy, though I do question his math a bit.
30% is generouse and I find it pretty unlikely that we have more than 5 mafia, it is possible though to have 6 if there are roles to keep thing balanced. So real chance of a RNG lynch this game to hit mafia is somewhere between 25 and 30%
To be fair I don't have any real strong scum reads atm. I think the case on Fidei outside of RNG is good. I have my own thinking telling me Damdred might be scum. Ruxx is super null with only a twinge of scum lean, mostly because I almost feel like he's hiding behind his role more than having fun with it but I can't really read ruxx for shit so idk. This one I hate myself for even thinking about + Show Spoiler +I told ruxx he was stupid for this, but geript really has been indirectly calling himself scum. Call it a projection read.
Other than that I just think it's weird LT says he wants to sheep HtS and Rels is really weird so far too. It's hard to tell where the role play begins and ends which is making this a interesting challenge to read people.
For now I'm gunna sheep the RNG I guess.
##Vote: Fidei
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On August 20 2015 15:56 Fidei86 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2015 15:07 Tictock wrote:On August 20 2015 14:41 The Shining wrote:On August 20 2015 11:55 Fecalfeast wrote:On August 20 2015 11:19 The Shining wrote:On August 20 2015 11:15 geript wrote:
Really no one else is posting? This is some bs K maybe ur not so scummy ??? elaborate feels like he's genuinely frustrated that the game is slow and no one is talking. i dont think scum would care enough to make this post Except he posted that 3 hours after his last post, in the middle of conversation that other people were having and then doesn't post again for 2 hours. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/491840-the-new-personality-mafia?page=33#651I honestly don't get the reason for geripts post here. It's out of place, complains about "no one posting" but doesn't try to engage anyone who IS posting at the time. So if geript really was frustrated why does he complain about something that is clearly not true? Why doesn't he try and engadge people who are around at the time of that post. So on the surface saying "scum wouldn't care to make this post" sounds good, but when you look at that post in context it makes very little sense. Seems like a shitty reason to townread geript to me. Thing is that other players have complained about the meta of the game so far. When I did it, I followed up with a big post with reads etc. Geript didn't exactly post a WoT, but he has been giving reads, appearing to think critically etc. But what about Kelsier? Pretty much all he has said are throwaway remarks about the bad meta of the game. And he always have these without looking to engage anyone. So if you're not also scum reading him as well, that's a double standard.
KSC, Obi, and Yamato look like they are just being themselves to me, they kinda just don't give a shit.
I haven't really played much with them (and never with yamato) but from what I've seen of them in other games this is pretty par for the course.
Obi is actually a slight town read for me currently, he has made a few pokes and prods. As scum I'd describe him as "just along for the ride", in this game I feel like he's a little engadged, sorta? Idk he is definitely someone to keep an eye on though.
Humm actually KSC does seem to be a little more throwaway this game than I'd like... I'll reread him a bit later. I can't recall if it was him or someone else I suspected of rolling Palmar.
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On August 20 2015 16:19 Fidei86 wrote:
Ritoky's posts since my wot are much more like what I expect from town ritoky, fwiw.
This, plus what I said about the RNG stuff being more likely to come from town!ritoky paradying than scum!ritoky hiding and tunneling, is why I'm feel ok sheeping his case atm.
Since you are around, and because I'm wavering atm (haven't even actually voted) who would you vote today?
Who do you think is your strongest scumread atm Fidei? and why?
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On August 20 2015 16:26 Fidei86 wrote:Okay I have a bunch of thoughts. 1. Damdred is a strong player, especially towards the later part of the game. However his reads early on are usually quite meh. In Holy Guardians he was 100% wrong on all of reads until like d4 when he solved the game and got insta-NK'd. 2. There is no point in even bothering to parse his posts so far - they are garbage. Clearly he is role playing. Fine. But exactly as I said viz Onegu in Holy Guardians - he's easy lynch bait later on if he doesn't stop messing around. I would be pushing him harder, but there are too many people who haven't been playing the game properly (as I think of it anyway.. Pushing, giving reads, interacting on meaningful stuff) for a policy lynch to make sense. I think I had what, nine people on my 'lurker' list? Pretty sure some are Mafia, but they can't all be. 3. Damdred and ritoky always claim that they have a super good read on each other. So far, from the games I've seen, their reads on each other are usually right. So honestly if I was going to listen to someone's opinion of Damdred, it would be ritoky (especially now ritoky seems to be engaged in the game a little more).
Wait what?
Basically what this boils down to is that you have no opinion but would trust the person pushing on you who you said you had a scum lean on before?
I get that your starting to lean town on him now, but this still feels weird to me.
I'm also really confused why you keep bringing up what happened in other games when you yourself keep pointing out that almost nobody is playing like themselves...
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On August 20 2015 16:30 Fidei86 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2015 16:25 Tictock wrote:On August 20 2015 16:19 Fidei86 wrote:
Ritoky's posts since my wot are much more like what I expect from town ritoky, fwiw. This, plus what I said about the RNG stuff being more likely to come from town!ritoky paradying than scum!ritoky hiding and tunneling, is why I'm feel ok sheeping his case atm. Since you are around, and because I'm wavering atm (haven't even actually voted) who would you vote today? Who do you think is your strongest scumread atm Fidei? and why? A predetermined meta is literally the easiest thing to stick to. Well, perhaps it's slightly harder than just lurking, but not by much. My reads were all mostly on that sort of 'superficial' level too, so I don't think it's necessarily scummy from you, but I don't think your reasoning there is particularly sound. Let me go and read some more filters before I answer you definitively. Off the top of my head, I'd probably say Tubesock. I'll go read his filter again now.
...
Yea your scum.
Sorry buddy.
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On August 20 2015 16:40 Fidei86 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2015 16:32 Tictock wrote:On August 20 2015 16:26 Fidei86 wrote:On August 20 2015 16:16 Tubesock wrote:
What's your thinking on Damdred? Okay I have a bunch of thoughts. 1. Damdred is a strong player, especially towards the later part of the game. However his reads early on are usually quite meh. In Holy Guardians he was 100% wrong on all of reads until like d4 when he solved the game and got insta-NK'd. 2. There is no point in even bothering to parse his posts so far - they are garbage. Clearly he is role playing. Fine. But exactly as I said viz Onegu in Holy Guardians - he's easy lynch bait later on if he doesn't stop messing around. I would be pushing him harder, but there are too many people who haven't been playing the game properly (as I think of it anyway.. Pushing, giving reads, interacting on meaningful stuff) for a policy lynch to make sense. I think I had what, nine people on my 'lurker' list? Pretty sure some are Mafia, but they can't all be. 3. Damdred and ritoky always claim that they have a super good read on each other. So far, from the games I've seen, their reads on each other are usually right. So honestly if I was going to listen to someone's opinion of Damdred, it would be ritoky (especially now ritoky seems to be engaged in the game a little more). Wait what? Basically what this boils down to is that you have no opinion but would trust the person pushing on you who you said you had a scum lean on before? I get that your starting to lean town on him now, but this still feels weird to me. I'm also really confused why you keep bringing up what happened in other games when you yourself keep pointing out that almost nobody is playing like themselves... well, I do have an opinion, just not a read. And yes, I'm skeptical of ritoky this game. This interaction has actually reminded me that it is weird that they haven't been interacting at all, given how they usually do very early on. I know they're pretending to be someone else, but it is such a strong meta part of the game for both of them that I would have thought they'd find a way to weave it into their role play. Viz other games - that's just how I think. What people have done in their previous games provides me with some kind of yardstick for measuring their play.
On August 19 2015 09:07 Tictock wrote:
Come on now, newbies really should not be trying to apply meta reads. Maybe after you've played in more games than you can count on your hands you can start to try and apply this type of read. There are just too many factors that goes into a proper meta read for you to let that me your only method of judging people.
Besides, in a game where everyone is trying to play the meta of somebody else this seems like a really retarted way to go.
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On August 20 2015 16:44 Fidei86 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2015 16:34 Tictock wrote:On August 20 2015 16:30 Fidei86 wrote:On August 20 2015 16:25 Tictock wrote:On August 20 2015 16:19 Fidei86 wrote:
Ritoky's posts since my wot are much more like what I expect from town ritoky, fwiw. This, plus what I said about the RNG stuff being more likely to come from town!ritoky paradying than scum!ritoky hiding and tunneling, is why I'm feel ok sheeping his case atm. Since you are around, and because I'm wavering atm (haven't even actually voted) who would you vote today? Who do you think is your strongest scumread atm Fidei? and why? A predetermined meta is literally the easiest thing to stick to. Well, perhaps it's slightly harder than just lurking, but not by much. My reads were all mostly on that sort of 'superficial' level too, so I don't think it's necessarily scummy from you, but I don't think your reasoning there is particularly sound. Let me go and read some more filters before I answer you definitively. Off the top of my head, I'd probably say Tubesock. I'll go read his filter again now. ... Yea your scum. Sorry buddy. Care to elaborate?
I'll expound on it a little later, right now I'm rather see you doing something other than defending yourself.
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On August 20 2015 17:17 KelsierSC wrote:
I'm the townies town in the game, people scum reading me are scum or bad town.
Did you get sicklucker?
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On August 20 2015 17:59 Rels wrote:
I think you're scummy. Didn't like the fact that you attacked ritoky when drunk (so you read the thread) but didn't know Damdred was Chezinu (so you didn't read the thread).
read the thread + didn't read the thread = someone told you you were attacked = guy with a QT = probably mafia
I think tubesock is mafia though
##Unvote
##Vote Tubesock
I'm either lazy or not reading properly, possibly both
Can you recap why you think Tube is mafia for me?
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On August 20 2015 16:30 Fidei86 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2015 16:25 Tictock wrote:On August 20 2015 16:19 Fidei86 wrote:
Ritoky's posts since my wot are much more like what I expect from town ritoky, fwiw. This, plus what I said about the RNG stuff being more likely to come from town!ritoky paradying than scum!ritoky hiding and tunneling, is why I'm feel ok sheeping his case atm. Since you are around, and because I'm wavering atm (haven't even actually voted) who would you vote today? Who do you think is your strongest scumread atm Fidei? and why? A predetermined meta is literally the easiest thing to stick to. Well, perhaps it's slightly harder than just lurking, but not by much. My reads were all mostly on that sort of 'superficial' level too, so I don't think it's necessarily scummy from you, but I don't think your reasoning there is particularly sound. Let me go and read some more filters before I answer you definitively. Off the top of my head, I'd probably say Tubesock. I'll go read his filter again now.
So let me break down why I think Fidei is mafia for this post.
A predetermined meta is literally the easiest thing to stick to. Well, perhaps it's slightly harder than just lurking, but not by much.
This is true enough, but it doesn't apply to this situation. Rit opened by RNGing you, he then later makes a case on you based on your opening and keeps his RNG as a part of it. He moved beyond the RNG by making a real case.
My reads were all mostly on that sort of 'superficial' level too, so I don't think it's necessarily scummy from you, but I don't think your reasoning there is particularly sound.
This is the part that really bothers me, especially the bolded.
Fidei has made 2 Walls of Text posts, in the First he talks about how he feels the game needs to move into a "try-hard" mode and identifies himself as a try-hard.
His 2nd and Main WoT comes about midway through the day with about half of it a defense of rit's case on him and then the other half spent giving us his reads on about half the game, I think he mentions the other half in a lurker list, but I didn't bother to confirm. Clearly this is his tryhard post giving us as much as he has in the game at that point.
So for town!Fidei to go through that effort and put together those reads, only to turn around a few hours later and describe those same reads as 'superficial' makes no sense. If he doesn't really believe these reads then why go through the effort of putting them all together and make them look good?
Clearly he knows his reads were bad, just the same as he knows he failed to read the thread at times and agreed people were justified in scum reading him for that.
It's also pretty clear that he doesn't believe his own scum reads. He listed Rels, Rit, myself and Tube as scum in that big WoT post but he seems to have flipped us all to town for fairly weak reasons. Actually I'm not sure where his stance is on Rels but he certaintly seems to be talking to rels like he thinks he's town. In fact he's been talking about all 4 of us like we are town.
On August 20 2015 16:50 Fidei86 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2015 16:46 Tubesock wrote:
Hypocrisy is delicious.
So, you top scum me because you've never played with me and don't have any "hopes" shall we say of me being more town. Over KelsierSC who is nailing Batsnacks' can't give a fuck attitude. You are saying that Kels usually doesn't do shit, but gets NK'd so he must be good? Is that what I read? I'm not saying it makes sense that he keeps getting NK'd, I'm just saying that is what has happened in previous games. And this isn't Kelsier being bat - from what I've seen its what he does every game. And as to scumming you - that was my read at the time. I need to update it now but I've been stuck in this dialogue with TT. I will obviously update my reads. But I don't see that I should just refuse to give a read because I haven't played with you before? And if I caveated every read with "but I haven't played with him before" that would be tedious. And I don't need to if I'm not basing the read on meta.
On August 20 2015 17:56 Fidei86 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2015 17:50 Rels wrote:
now that I explained why your tubesock's townread is stupid, do you reconsider ? I hadn't thought about things like that before. You're right that town reads are easy to give out as mafia. In a way, it would make sense that nervous mafia would town read people who seem to be posting in a town manner (which would explain why our reads align), and his push on me without scum reading anyone else (or really even considering anyone else, for that matter) isn't exactly massively towny. So yeah, I guess. Since you're online, I might as well ask - you've been pretty quiet up until now. What do you think about the push on me more generally (that you now seem to have joined)?
He did give some reasons to his read change on me, but really it was just because I called out that his original reasons had never even happened.
On August 20 2015 16:14 Fidei86 wrote:
@TT fair enough re HTS. Just checked again. I think my notes were referring to your post on Ruxx's meta reads which I actually didn't give enough credit for. It was low hanging fruit for sure, but it was probably worth saying.
You said Rit's case "made your dick hard". Okay, so agreeing doesn't necessarily mean you were going to vote that way- perhaps I was using the term "sheeping" too loosely.
My point on your interactions with Damdred stands. You were in HG with me, right? Do you remember how pissed I was with Onegu all game for being useless, and how I kept saying we should lynch him not because he was scum, but because it would be impossible to read him through the shit he was saying? I sort of feel the same way about Damdred here. Insofar as your post is an attempt to draw Damdred out, then I can see that's actually helpful. I didn't read it that way at first because what can you really read into his rambling so far, but you could have been pandering to his role play.
I guess that means I'll move you back to null.
TLDR: Fidei is mafia for making a try-hard wall of text style post with tons of reads, then later calling those reads "superficial" and it seems clear that he never believed his own scum reads
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You did roll Damdred Fidei...
Start some EoD shenanigans!
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I find it sad that the first game I play with Chez he's not Chez....
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On August 20 2015 21:13 Chezinu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2015 21:10 Tictock wrote:
I find it sad that the first game I play with Chez he's not Chez.... Please tell us more.
no...
you
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On August 20 2015 21:22 Chezinu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2015 18:35 Onegu wrote:
Day 1 Votecount
Fidei86 (3): ritoky, Tubesock, The Shining, Tictock, Rels
ritoky (0): geript, Chezinu
Damdred (1): Fecalfeast, Fecalfeast, ruXxar, Chezinu
Fecalfeast (1): Damdred
JudgeJudy (0):
ruXxar (5): Breshke, Half the Sky, Rels, ObiWanShinobi, WaveofShadow, Lord Tolkien
geript (0):
vayne authority (0): Lord Tolkien
yamato77 (1): Fecalfeast
ObiWanShinobi (0):
Tubesock (2): The Shining, Rels
WaveofShadow (0):
Chezinu (1): geript
Not Voting (7): Fidei86, yamato77, ruXxar, JudgeJudy, VayneAuthority, Beneather, KelsierSC
Day 1 ends in Can people actually vote?
Not without a light to guide their votes to truth and justice
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On August 20 2015 21:34 Chezinu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2015 21:26 Tictock wrote:On August 20 2015 21:22 Chezinu wrote:On August 20 2015 18:35 Onegu wrote:
Day 1 Votecount
Fidei86 (3): ritoky, Tubesock, The Shining, Tictock, Rels
ritoky (0): geript, Chezinu
Damdred (1): Fecalfeast, Fecalfeast, ruXxar, Chezinu
Fecalfeast (1): Damdred
JudgeJudy (0):
ruXxar (5): Breshke, Half the Sky, Rels, ObiWanShinobi, WaveofShadow, Lord Tolkien
geript (0):
vayne authority (0): Lord Tolkien
yamato77 (1): Fecalfeast
ObiWanShinobi (0):
Tubesock (2): The Shining, Rels
WaveofShadow (0):
Chezinu (1): geript
Not Voting (7): Fidei86, yamato77, ruXxar, JudgeJudy, VayneAuthority, Beneather, KelsierSC
Day 1 ends in Can people actually vote? Not without a light to guide their votes to truth and justice Why don't you be that light or get with the cool kids?
I made some efforts in one of the 32 posts you didn't read.
Who are the cool kids?
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Almost 100% positive KSC rolled sicklucker
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Eh Fidei's little case on VA is decent enough, as HtS pointed out I'm not sure it's accurate but the effort looks real (and is what I was hoping to see Fidei try and do when not pressured to defend himself). I'm less of a fan of him making a few efforts to point at it and see what people think without really doing much else since he posted that but, eh.
Idk I still think he's mafia because of the reasons I detailed in this post
+ Show Spoiler +On August 20 2015 20:45 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2015 16:30 Fidei86 wrote:On August 20 2015 16:25 Tictock wrote:On August 20 2015 16:19 Fidei86 wrote:
Ritoky's posts since my wot are much more like what I expect from town ritoky, fwiw. This, plus what I said about the RNG stuff being more likely to come from town!ritoky paradying than scum!ritoky hiding and tunneling, is why I'm feel ok sheeping his case atm. Since you are around, and because I'm wavering atm (haven't even actually voted) who would you vote today? Who do you think is your strongest scumread atm Fidei? and why? A predetermined meta is literally the easiest thing to stick to. Well, perhaps it's slightly harder than just lurking, but not by much. My reads were all mostly on that sort of 'superficial' level too, so I don't think it's necessarily scummy from you, but I don't think your reasoning there is particularly sound. Let me go and read some more filters before I answer you definitively. Off the top of my head, I'd probably say Tubesock. I'll go read his filter again now. So let me break down why I think Fidei is mafia for this post. Show nested quote +A predetermined meta is literally the easiest thing to stick to. Well, perhaps it's slightly harder than just lurking, but not by much. This is true enough, but it doesn't apply to this situation. Rit opened by RNGing you, he then later makes a case on you based on your opening and keeps his RNG as a part of it. He moved beyond the RNG by making a real case. Show nested quote + My reads were all mostly on that sort of 'superficial' level too, so I don't think it's necessarily scummy from you, but I don't think your reasoning there is particularly sound.
This is the part that really bothers me, especially the bolded. Fidei has made 2 Walls of Text posts, in the First he talks about how he feels the game needs to move into a "try-hard" mode and identifies himself as a try-hard. His 2nd and Main WoT comes about midway through the day with about half of it a defense of rit's case on him and then the other half spent giving us his reads on about half the game, I think he mentions the other half in a lurker list, but I didn't bother to confirm. Clearly this is his tryhard post giving us as much as he has in the game at that point. So for town!Fidei to go through that effort and put together those reads, only to turn around a few hours later and describe those same reads as 'superficial' makes no sense. If he doesn't really believe these reads then why go through the effort of putting them all together and make them look good? Clearly he knows his reads were bad, just the same as he knows he failed to read the thread at times and agreed people were justified in scum reading him for that. It's also pretty clear that he doesn't believe his own scum reads. He listed Rels, Rit, myself and Tube as scum in that big WoT post but he seems to have flipped us all to town for fairly weak reasons. Actually I'm not sure where his stance is on Rels but he certaintly seems to be talking to rels like he thinks he's town. In fact he's been talking about all 4 of us like we are town. Show nested quote +On August 20 2015 16:50 Fidei86 wrote:On August 20 2015 16:46 Tubesock wrote:
Hypocrisy is delicious.
So, you top scum me because you've never played with me and don't have any "hopes" shall we say of me being more town. Over KelsierSC who is nailing Batsnacks' can't give a fuck attitude. You are saying that Kels usually doesn't do shit, but gets NK'd so he must be good? Is that what I read? I'm not saying it makes sense that he keeps getting NK'd, I'm just saying that is what has happened in previous games. And this isn't Kelsier being bat - from what I've seen its what he does every game. And as to scumming you - that was my read at the time. I need to update it now but I've been stuck in this dialogue with TT. I will obviously update my reads. But I don't see that I should just refuse to give a read because I haven't played with you before? And if I caveated every read with "but I haven't played with him before" that would be tedious. And I don't need to if I'm not basing the read on meta. Show nested quote +On August 20 2015 17:56 Fidei86 wrote:On August 20 2015 17:50 Rels wrote:
now that I explained why your tubesock's townread is stupid, do you reconsider ? I hadn't thought about things like that before. You're right that town reads are easy to give out as mafia. In a way, it would make sense that nervous mafia would town read people who seem to be posting in a town manner (which would explain why our reads align), and his push on me without scum reading anyone else (or really even considering anyone else, for that matter) isn't exactly massively towny. So yeah, I guess. Since you're online, I might as well ask - you've been pretty quiet up until now. What do you think about the push on me more generally (that you now seem to have joined)? He did give some reasons to his read change on me, but really it was just because I called out that his original reasons had never even happened. Show nested quote +On August 20 2015 16:14 Fidei86 wrote:
@TT fair enough re HTS. Just checked again. I think my notes were referring to your post on Ruxx's meta reads which I actually didn't give enough credit for. It was low hanging fruit for sure, but it was probably worth saying.
You said Rit's case "made your dick hard". Okay, so agreeing doesn't necessarily mean you were going to vote that way- perhaps I was using the term "sheeping" too loosely.
My point on your interactions with Damdred stands. You were in HG with me, right? Do you remember how pissed I was with Onegu all game for being useless, and how I kept saying we should lynch him not because he was scum, but because it would be impossible to read him through the shit he was saying? I sort of feel the same way about Damdred here. Insofar as your post is an attempt to draw Damdred out, then I can see that's actually helpful. I didn't read it that way at first because what can you really read into his rambling so far, but you could have been pandering to his role play.
I guess that means I'll move you back to null.
TLDR: Fidei is mafia for making a try-hard wall of text style post with tons of reads, then later calling those reads "superficial" and it seems clear that he never believed his own scum reads
I might be willing to consolidate elsewhere, but I'd like to have better reasons than just them lurking.
Also if someone cares to detail out why they think Fidei is town I'll listen. Some of his defense was decent, but kinda like Tube said enough of it was weird and didn't add up to sway me.
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On August 21 2015 04:00 geript wrote:
Regardless, KSC is playing to the cap of his ability currently which is to say none at all. So losing him or yamato would be no real loss if they had rolled town.
Unfortunately my experience here has shown that often times players who just don't give a shit are just as often town as they are mafia. Also I know there are a few players who despise D1 due to the high troll factor and lack of information to go off of.
As such I'd prefer to lynch someone who I have some reason to think is scum based on their posts D1, I do agree we have to deal with lurkers before lylo though. I think night actions like Vig shots and cop checks are more the way to go with players like that.
Meh, I'm fairly terrible at this so maybe I'm not the person to listen to, just my 2 cents.
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Eck, sorry I wasn't around EoD, got called into work early.
Looks like I missed about ten pages that I wont be able to read till after work, pretty dissapointed we didn't manage to settle on a better target than ruxx.
On August 21 2015 07:28 raynpelikoneet wrote:
geript and rels.
I can def see Rels being mafia, but I'm not sure you are picking up on from geript.
Please elaborate when you get back.
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On August 21 2015 09:25 Bill Murray wrote:
geript is reading weirdly (scummy) agree on that one, tictock, even if u dont see it
I mostly just wanted to hear rayns reasoning kus he usually has decent points to call people scum for.
My own read has him at a mild scum lean, but for fairly bad reasons. I posted that read somewhere before, still at work so can't dig it up rigt now.
Are you gunna wow us this game? I'm already impressed that you are reading the game.
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EPT
