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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On July 26 2015 06:58 n00bKing wrote: The complacency surrounding this 8 vs 2 race is a little troublesome On July 26 2015 07:04 LightningStrike wrote: Barakos the Mafia Goon has been lynched! ![[image loading]](http://replygif.net/i/1248.gif) | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On July 26 2015 07:07 Damdred wrote: Well barak isn't exactly making himself towny looking at this point Nope. Not exactly... | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
From the internet! I was actually just searching for "thumbs up gif." But this one was especially perfect, because you see her uncertainty, before she apparently gets good news, and celebrates. lol | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On July 26 2015 06:55 Rels wrote: Yes I think having different subjects in your first post of the game is something scum does more often than town. Does anyone else believe that this is true? Because I find this to be just as ridiculous as everything else that Rels says to me. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On July 26 2015 08:22 ruXxar wrote: Updated reads after short analysis of push on barakos. People that are town for being suspicious early of Barakos post: RuXx Damdred Rayn Rels People that are town for other reasons: Disformation Scum: Moosy Flexes Suspicious'ish: Breshke Sulfurus Tictock Nocturne (n00bking) You don't belong in that first group. You would go into "People that are Town for other reasons" along with disformation. I read your early post about the Barakos post, but then when you gave 3 scumleans, he wasn't among them. Damdred and rayn do go in that first group. Some of the arguments they used against Barakos were bad, but some of them were good (and more importantly, the read was good). Rels does not belong in that group because he doesn't use any of the clear and specific reasoning seen from the other people in the group. His vote just sorta...ends up there. Which is why I agree that Rels is one of the most likely bussers, if Barakos was intentionally bussed. (More on that later.) I think I belong more in "People that are Town for other reasons" than I do at the bottom of Suspicious'ish. But I suppose the fact that my name is in parentheses means I'm kind of an afterthought in that group. I would put Rels in Suspicious'ish, Ticktock in "Town for other reasons" and Sulfurus in "Scum." I would take Moosy out of "Scum" and put him pretty low in the "Suspicious'ish" pile. I might even take Flexes out of Scum too, and just put him high on Suspicious'ish. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On July 26 2015 09:26 Tictock wrote: As for potential scum bussing their partner. Bre, sulf, and Rels look to be the most likely bussers. You are EXACTLY RIGHT. I am now VERY interested to hear how you selected those 3 particular names, to see if you used precisely the same reasoning I did or not. (Note that "most likely bussers" and "most likely scum" are not exactly the same thing.) | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On July 26 2015 09:47 ruXxar wrote: n00bking: He's been a little warm this game, a little too jokey. I saw his early interaction with barakos and it felt too friendly If I've been warm and jokey, then I wasn't just too friendly with Barakos. I've been friendly with a lot of people. Except Rels. Fuck Rels. :D On July 26 2015 09:47 ruXxar wrote: I see n00bking as this rational logic robot that picks apart people's reads when they don't make sense. Instead of scrutinizing the reads that barakos made, he instead just scoffed it off and thought it was a joke Because it WAS a joke. Barakos AFK'd the rest of the Phase, so he never came back to confirm it. But ask him after the game is over. I bet he'll tell you it was a joke. On July 26 2015 09:47 ruXxar wrote: Just feeling that n00b is a little bit odd which is why i pegged him as a PR this game. I just don't feel confident calling him confirmed town at this point. Again, probably shouldn't be trying to peg people as power roles... And it's fine that you're not confident calling me confirmed Town yet. I think there are several very good reasons for people to be Townreading me. I would not try to demand that anyone call me "confirmed Town." Like, those are big words, and should not be thrown around lightly. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On July 26 2015 10:04 ruXxar wrote: I don't like how n00bking is stuck trying to push the same case on rels over and over. He complains about rayn being hung up over him calling his first post a throwaway post, yet he himself is completely obsessed with trying to hammer rels to death for an argument that he clearly explained his stance on. Those are not the same thing. rayn was talking like he was upset over how people were making a big deal about his throwaway post. I was trying to clear up the misunderstanding, and explain that no one WAS making a big deal about it, so that we could move onto things that actually mattered (and by the way, there's no reason for me to try and clear up that misunderstanding, and shut down all that useless nonsense, if I were Scum. If I were Scum, I would let that chaos run for as long as it could go.) Me continuing the thing with Rels is totally different, because we actually WERE having an argument, instead of there just being one person imagining an argument. Secondly, yes, Rels "clearly explained his stance." I know exactly what he is trying to say happened. I also know that his story is not believable to me, and have illustrated why it is not believable to me. On July 26 2015 10:04 ruXxar wrote: He's trying to push scum on rels by taking his words and twisting their meaning so that they appear scummy. Uhhhh....."taking my words and twisting their meaning" is exactly what I caught HIM in the act doing, and shed light on it multiple times. On July 26 2015 10:04 ruXxar wrote: Something about n00bking is just a little bit off from the last game we played together. This is fine too. I don't think most people play the same every game, even if they aren't making a conscious effort to "change up their play" for some reason or other. It especially makes sense for me to play a little bit different than I did in that game, when that was my first game here, and I had never been in a game with any of the players before. The important thing is not whether I feel a little different, but if you can piece together scum motivation behind what is different. My push on Rels makes no sense at all from a Scum perspective, now that we know Barakos was Scum. If Barakos had flipped Town, then fine. Me wasting all my time chasing after Rels could serve a Scum agenda. But if Barakos and I are both Scum? It does NOT. You had your vote on Moosy, Ticktock had his vote on Moosy. Sulfurus had Moosy as a scumread, and so did someone else (Breshke, maybe? Not sure right now, and not going to look it up. The important thing is that there was someone else.) The Scum play there is to go after Moosy, instead of giving him the null-to-somewhat-Town read that I did. No one else ever listed Rels as a top Scum suspect. No one else ever voted against Rels. And two players said (in no uncertain terms) that they would not be willing to participate in a lynch of Rels. But I kept at it, instead of taking down Moosy, when all the while, my scumbuddy Barakos is over there twisting in the wind? No. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On July 26 2015 10:35 Sulfurus wrote: n00bKing was the second to last player to vote on Barakos, he even admits in the same post that he would rather have lynched Rels today. Which I probably wouldn't say, if I were Scum, and knew that Barakos was about to flip Red. Like, you're defeating your own argument, without me needing to do anything. On July 26 2015 10:35 Sulfurus wrote: And some particular posts that I think are quite damning Rels is not even trying to scumread me in that post. He's just defending himself. (As he should. I'm not saying it was scum indicative for him to be defending himself, or for him to ONLY be defending himself. I'm just saying he wasn't trying to indicate that anything I said made me Scum at that time.) On July 26 2015 10:35 Sulfurus wrote: n00b malicously changing rayn's town read to scum read. Uhhh, you are misrepresenting my position. Read what the quote actually says. I did not ever try to say that rayn gave a scum read to Rels. I said that rayn refused to defend Rels. If you doubt that I'm right, ask rayn yourself, I expect he remembers. Keep grasping at those straws. I said he was unmemorable right before saying I was going to look at his filter from that game. After looking at the filter, he has at least 50 posts in that game that are not in the format you were talking about. The fact that I found him to be unmemorable before looking at his filter means nothing. I don't even know what you're trying to say. How is that post from ruXxar a "gem" and how is it supposed to make me look bad? | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On July 26 2015 10:52 Damdred wrote: Are you still scum reading rels noob? Not to the same degree. Because he obviously can't be scum without participating in a bussing of Barakos (and a bussing that was decided upon fairly early in the Phase, too) and I don't normally expect a Day 1 bussing, especially in a Newbie game. The circumstantial evidence works in Rels' favor, and so, seeing Barakos flip Red diminishes my suspicion of Rels. But the content of Rels' posts is still just as terrible, and his version of events during our prior discussions is still just as difficult for me to believe. I agree with...nearly everything you've said since the flip. But I don't agree that Rels has been "spewed Town." Saying that Scum Barakos equals Town Rels is going too far. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On July 26 2015 11:14 ruXxar wrote: What's the difference? I would lynch from the players I think are "most likely scum." Which players are most likely to have bussed Barakos is a separate conversation. Because I cannot be sure that Barakos was bussed. But if he was, then I agree with Ticktock that the 3 players most likely to have done it are exactly the 3 players he listed. Which is why I want to see how he selected those 3 names. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On July 26 2015 11:29 ruXxar wrote: @n00b: Can you give me a simple list post with where you think people stand right now. I'll definitely do this before the end of the Phase, so that if the Blue Roles are townreading me, they can see what I think on things. But I should do a bit of re-reading first, and I can't right now because it's time to go par-tay! | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On July 26 2015 11:40 Damdred wrote: Stuff about Rels Okay, thanks for putting together that post. Obviously, Rels is one of the people that I'll be re-reading before posting the reads list that ruXxar asked me for. And certain Night results could help guide the Noose on Day 2 as well. See everyone later. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On July 26 2015 13:17 Tictock wrote: This was posted based solely on their places in the votecount. Sorry if that's a disappointment to ya n00b. That is not a disappointment to me at all. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On July 26 2015 14:27 ruXxar wrote: Sulfurous brought up a curious point though, why did n00b switch his vote from rels to barakos when he thought rels was scummier? I'll give ya 3 reasons. 1) Remember this? n00bKing wrote: There is a problem, though, with Barakos' explanation that he was only reaction-testing people he played with in Newbie X. Because although that would explain why he had nothing to say about you (rayn) it doesn't explain why he gave the townread to Damdred. Damdred was NOT in Newbie X. So if Barakos can use the reaction test to form an opinion on Damdred, he should be able to use it to form an opinion on you. I would want to see him try to explain this inconsistency. And then this? n00bKing wrote: I would expect Town Barakos to be able to give us better analysis on a preferred lynch target, and to do a better job of defending himself, based on prior examples of his Town play. If that doesn't happen, then he'll stay in the group of players (that also includes Sulfurus and Rels) that I would be perfectly happy to punt out of the game on Day 1. And then this? n00bKing wrote:So yeah. All that stuff about him giving analysis on a better lynch target, and doing a better job of defending himself, obviously did not happen. I said what things Barakos would need to do in order to alleviate my suspicion. He never did those things. I had long expressed contentment with lynching him, so I...followed through on it. 2) Like I said, my attempts to pressure Rels weren't getting any traction. At the time that I moved my vote, having it on Rels was just barking at the moon. (In fact, I probably had about as much chance of getting The Moon lynched as getting Rels lynched.) I was at work for EoD, so there was a chance I wouldn't be around at the deadline. With Barakos having a 6-2 vote lead over Moosy, it looked pretty unlikely that there would be any late "shenannies" but I saw no reason to take any chances. I was not going to have my afk vote on Rels give anyone an opportunity to move the Noose from Barakos to Moosy. Those two reasons are good enough on their own, so feel free to skip this third one if you want, because it may not make sense to you anyway. 3) In the Mafia-by-forum games I played before coming to TL, there was normally a variation on the Vigilante role, that worked a little differently from how he works in this game. And there were roles that could "Pardon" someone who was lynched, so that they didn't die. In an instance like that, the Vigilante goes and attacks whoever he voted against that Day. That lets the Scum look at the vote count and eliminate some people as potentially being the Vigilante. The more scattered the votes are, the more it helps them narrow down the Vigilante's identity. This gives the Town incentive to consolidate votes toward the EoD. So I have this long-standing instinct drilled into me, to do vote consolidation, and it keeps me from leaving my vote uselessly stranded on Rels when no one else is voting against him. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
What the....why does this post look like a quote, when you had never said this before? lol, anyway... Yes, me pushing Rels all day long makes no sense from a scum perspective. If I had been teamed with Barakos, I would have either: 1) Gotten Moosy lynched in Barakos' place (which looked entirely possible, based on thread sentiment). or 2) Bussed the living snot out of Barakos. Pushing on Rels does NOT maximize my chances of getting a mislynch and saving Barakos. Pushing on Rels ALSO does NOT maximize my chances of getting Town cred when Barakos flips Red. My Day 1 play makes no sense, as a teammate of Barakos. Explaining the play from Rels on Day 1, as a teammate of Barakos, is comparably much easier. He bussed him. Explanation over. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On July 26 2015 17:41 Rels wrote: @noobking: Quote please. Can't wait to see you providing a source TBH. Happily. From Damdred (about Barakos' first post of any real length): it seems like a lot of information doesn't say a lot doesn't draw many conclussions and gives the thought of doing a lot of things while doing nothing at the same time From Damdred (about Barakos' explanation of that prior post being a reactions test): One problem I had with this post was that the reads still aren't substantiated beyond a copy paste of the allegations against him. With a slight twist on why those people are town who point out the problems. The second is he automatically accepts both of us as town for thinking he looks scummy which doesn't make a ton of sense to me. If someone starts a wagon/joims a wagon one of my first thoughts is is scum looking for an easy mislynch which he doesn't do. Again, that last one is actually not good reasoning. But at least it is clear and specific. From rayn: He is clearly lying since he should be interested in what i said about him: - He kinda called me mafia as a part of his "reaction test" - He literally should expect a reaction (that results in a read or questions) from me - Three people called him mafia, me, you and Damdred - He gives a TOWNREAD on you two (yeah like if he is town why the fuck would you and Damdred be TOWN for calling out scummy stuff that a townie did? like if i was mafia i would totally jump on that - there is no reason to give you a townread for it in the first place) yet he has NOTHING to say about me, who HE called out in the first place. Again, the last one is bad reasoning. And I think he said it before Damdred did. But as with Damdred, this reasoning is clear and specific. rayn later adds Barakos' "read on disformation" as another specific argument against him. From disformation: Interesting. Upon re-reading disformation's filter, it is not as good/Townish as I expected. I still feel like disformation is Town, but he's jovial with Barakos at first, then null-reads him. Then writes a long post about him that is mostly talking in circles. But eventually we get these as more specific explanations for his vote: actually I think he is misrepresenting me. I never said I would be looking for meta hints in general. I said I would be using some games I was shadowing ppl in to look for meta hints on just ruxXar and Damdred. Never mentioned any other games or meta hints in general. He also calls out my waffling in NSM X. Maybe he sees me as an easy misslynch? Or as an easy distraction? His conclusion is that I am scum. Seems even like a pretty strong read. But he doesn't vote for me? Waiting to see if he can get this wagon going? + Barakos read of me is super strange/wonky. + Barakos stance on NocturneMage is super indecisive. + Barakos gives a lot of town credit to n00bKing for something that is done very easily. Conversely, in your filter, it took me a lot of looking around to even find something that explains suspicion of Barakos, and is anywhere near the same part of the game as your vote against him. You make one post where you act suspicious of him and then promptly drop it, and don't revisit him at all for pages, that I noticed. (And I don't mean pages of game thread, I mean pages of your own filter.) You don't talk any more about Barakos until you are specifically interrogated on the subject, and then you say you want to give him more time. Which is fine, I gave him more time as well. Then you call his reaction test "bullshit" but with ZERO explanation as to why. You later call the reaction test a "lie" but again with no explanation. And this is from the post where you actually cast your vote against him: Let's begin with the beginning. As promised I re evaluated Barakos. Well, that was easy since he didn't post since yesterday. In particular, I checked rayn's additional accusation to my and Damdred's case, and it's true rayn was the second people to call Barakos mafia; but Barakos always forgot him on his townreads, only calling Damdred and I town. I still do not think it's the strongest point against him though rayn sry, this bullshit about reaction test is much worse IMO. Pretty convinced he's scum. ##Vote Barakos Murky. Not the same kind of clarity and specificity seen from the other people who voted against Barakos, that I quoted above. Which probably explains why they were the first 3 people to vote against him: because they knew why they were doing so. YOU were the 6th vote against Barakos, and you don't really seem to understand why you are voting against Barakos. Your vote just kinda happens to land there. After you had scumread and voted against at least two other players. *shrug* This does not guarantee that you're Scum. It is just what I meant when I told Damdred that Scum Barakos does NOT guarantee Town Rels, either. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On July 26 2015 18:02 Rels wrote: Now a few scummy things noobking did since EOD. 1. noobking attacked my credibility on voting Barakos But, as TT pointed out in his post, my read-then-vote of Barakos is clearly stated in the thread. So noobking lied when he said I didn't "use any of the clear and specific reasoning seen from the other people in the group." No, it's not a lie. You didn't use the same kind of clear and specific reasoning seen from the other people in the group. As demonstrated in my previous post. On July 26 2015 18:02 Rels wrote:2. noobking attacked my credibility as a player So, even if he reversed his read, he can still call me a bad player so other people are less inclined in trusting me. "Fuck Rels" does not attack your credibility as a player. Nor does saying that the content of your posts is still just as terrible. I'm not saying "terrible" as in "Rels is awful at playing this game." I'm saying "terrible" as in "Rels sounds scummy." Nor does saying that you don't belong in the group that I've discussed now at length. I'm not excluding you from the group because I disbelieve in your ability as a player. I'm excluding you because your posts about Barakos are not nearly as Town-indicative as the posts from those other players. On July 26 2015 18:02 Rels wrote:3. Claims his pushing on me makes no sense as scum This is WIFOM. On noobking can WIFOM it all he wants, the way he's pushing me is suspicious. Yeah, I said my pushing on you makes no sense if I'm scum. Because it DOESN'T. That quote you just posted from me would certainly convince me that I'm Town, if I was playing this game blind, and hadn't already looked at my PM to know for sure. On July 26 2015 18:02 Rels wrote:4. ruxxar's interrogation LOL. How in the hell are you going to try and list a post from RUXXAR as something scummy that *I* have done since the EoD? That's not something that I've done, that's something that someone else has done. Did you forget what your post was even supposed to be about? And I have now given a thorough answer to ruXxar's "interrogation" anyway. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On July 26 2015 18:43 Rels wrote: Barakos' last post was 16 hours into day 1, so we can assume he accepted his lynch by at most mid day. On July 26 2015 18:48 raynpelikoneet wrote:That is WIFOM because you cannot prove Barakos went to scum QT and said "hey i am done here, bus me". On July 26 2015 18:51 Rels wrote:Like you said, we shouldn't assume anything. His posts are EIGHT MINUTES apart!! In the span of eight minutes, he goes from saying it is safe to make this assumption, to saying that no duh, of course we can't make that assumption. | ||
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On July 26 2015 20:12 raynpelikoneet wrote: The post where he says "likely to bus" does not equal "has to be bussed"? It's basic logic and just not alignment indicative. Answering questions that have been posed to me with good logic (even if it is basic logic) is Town indicative. As Scum, I would rather provide as little good logic as possible. | ||
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