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I still think Kelsier might be the cop here. He may really have a redcheck on onegu but upon seeing his (onegu's) reaction he decided to unclaim so the focus could be on another person/the actual scum. He backs it up with no harm being done by the fake-claim, but it's still rather he is the cop knowing no one would counter claim. I think you guys underestimate Kelsier, he could be in a for a double reaction. Day was just starting at that time.
My first thought were Kelsier, cop or not. Ok let's just say cop, because I've witnessed 2 games where cop-claims have gotten quite messy, no need to rush things. Cop play is always strange and can always have fun turn-arounds. Since I read Onegu town, I was thinking "ok let' step back, in which circumstances could he be a redchecki if not mafia? miller, framed?" The problem was it was already pointed out by yamato and I didn’t want to repeat it. Geript also made a good point about how a game with a cop, no way the third mafia is also identifiable via a cop. It made sense to me and I thought maybe Kelsier was not the cop.
All the while Onegu was getting townier by the minute. It came just down to whether people believe that he as a mafia would concede or not. And it really looked to me like if he was mafia he was ready to concede, so he couldn’t? And must be town? Miller most probably then, because being framed means there is a framer and it wouldn’t go well it geripts theory. Still obviously a framer can balance out a cop, but I have no clue about setup balances so I don’t know whether a framer balances it out better than a GF or something. So ok he is miller or could framed. Then HF feels the need to make a bluepost about it that miller is unaware; so Onegu is miller? Otherwise it would mean HF explained something that isn’t actually relevant, or it’s just because people were wondering about it and he answered it very technically. I had the feeling HF really thought about whether he should explain this.
Ok, I had these thoughts and wanted to put them down in one or another form, but new post kept flying over my head. It didn't help me write an organized opinion. Meh.
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On July 21 2015 06:05 plotspot wrote:
And you know what? I think you, rayn, have so much experience with this game, you totally think in a different sphere of how to approach this game. Me, I just follow my instinct sort of. Lol 1st game I was lynched d1, 2nd game I was called stupid town RB and am the reason why sicklucker has to sitout 3 games (at least I feel responsible about it for a part), 3rd game lol I got lynched for yolo play. I don't make a lot of sense.
I know from my head that I should push more, ask more questions, but I don't know how to do that. I'm not good at it. I'm dying to explain to you why I can't be scum playing like this, and ok that I'm bad at this game, but I can't at the moment. Just remember this.
The problem is the following:
You do not basically do anything. I read the game where you were the roleblocker and while you were acting quite weird in terms of what you did, you ACTUALLY DID THINGS. You put way much effort to the game in comparison to what you are doing here.
- whatever you say i do not think your D1 vote was reasonable in regards your 4 man circle and JL townread.
- in fact the four man circle is quite nonsense because you never come into any conclusion. Assuming we four are most likely all town it makes it even more scummy. It looks like you want to look like you are doing something while you actually arent.
- you gave two different explanations for your claim at the start. You literally did.
- you fail to comment on important things in the thread. See: red check claimed on onegu. That doesn't make any sense given at that time that was the ONLY thing you should talk about, unless you somehow know Onegu is not mafia and again, you don't want to make enemies by calling townies scum.
So yeah. That's why i think you are scum. It is possible you just somehow read ly/damdred's posts differently, and i don't know if that is enough to think you are mafia (based on that), but again; that stuff didn't lead you anywhere.
Basically imo that covers everything you have done in this game. You are the only person in the who has NONE actions i consider coming over 50% from a townie. In fact i cannot understand 90% of the things you do from town perspective at all. You just do random stuff that doesn't lead anywhere.
And that's not what you did in the game i read. You had a big fucking graph of things and you actually tried to conclude something from people's actions.
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Like, there's no way for mafia to win this imo.^^
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yeah ok I might be scum for D2, but I cannot be scum D1 for the reasons you listed.^^ This is gonna be fun rayn. You do agree though that you use other metrics, more experienced ones, than me? That would be great already.
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I don't know what you use but i look at why people post what they do and if it contributes towards scumhunting or not.
If you are not mafia then who is and why?
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Nah, I concede, It’s difficult enough for me to scumhunt D1, now I actually have to make them up? Sorry, I’m not there yet. Lol and I hate lying, maybe I will if I can summarize lying into a greater concept.
And yeah rayn, while your reasons for scumreading me are good, it’s still only because I suck as town. D1 was my genuine towngame (and some people read it like that), because I only checked my role at the beginning of N1. That’s the reason why I didn’t know whether jonny was town or mafia, and really struggled with voting for him or not. I also honestly thought FF could be mafia, well not now anymore. I was thinking scumreading him, but no it’s stupid, I won’t do that.
The game you read where I had the chart thing, it was also D1 blind. I could have been mafia there too. The chart thing didn’t matter.^^. I guess Kelsier who cohosted this game with cakepie, never knew about it?
I just wanted to see what you guys will post for a while, but it’s kinda dead so yeah. Sorry I wanted to make it a bit more entertaining for you guys, but I guess it’s quite settled that you will win anyway so you are rather bored by it. It’s ok. I just thought I give you guys some time to “think” about stuff some more.XD
I think it was my fault, why this mafia game went to crap. I was never there D1. Jonny has 1 “hi”. Milo had one “hello” after 36 hours into D1. If they came here and say they lost motivation and didn’t see the chance to win because we lacked coordination for I was never there, I’d accept it.
Hmm anything else? I thought geript was funny. Lol scumato. FF was really scummy and yet so townish in his own way, I felt sorry. Suppose I was town, I could really go on, and I think I would have failed that reaction test by Kelsier, because I tend to stay back and analyze first even as town, because we still had so much time and so much things were going on.
I hope Jonny’s dog is fine, I love dogs too.
Yeah, sorry if you guys felt underwhelmed by this game. Lots of stuff came together.^^
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On July 21 2015 21:16 plotspot wrote:
Nah, I concede, It’s difficult enough for me to scumhunt D1, now I actually have to make them up? Sorry, I’m not there yet. Lol and I hate lying, maybe I will if I can summarize lying into a greater concept.
And yeah rayn, while your reasons for scumreading me are good, it’s still only because I suck as town. D1 was my genuine towngame (and some people read it like that), because I only checked my role at the beginning of N1. That’s the reason why I didn’t know whether jonny was town or mafia, and really struggled with voting for him or not. I also honestly thought FF could be mafia, well not now anymore. I was thinking scumreading him, but no it’s stupid, I won’t do that.
The game you read where I had the chart thing, it was also D1 blind. I could have been mafia there too. The chart thing didn’t matter.^^. I guess Kelsier who cohosted this game with cakepie, never knew about it?
I just wanted to see what you guys will post for a while, but it’s kinda dead so yeah. Sorry I wanted to make it a bit more entertaining for you guys, but I guess it’s quite settled that you will win anyway so you are rather bored by it. It’s ok. I just thought I give you guys some time to “think” about stuff some more.XD
I think it was my fault, why this mafia game went to crap. I was never there D1. Jonny has 1 “hi”. Milo had one “hello” after 36 hours into D1. If they came here and say they lost motivation and didn’t see the chance to win because we lacked coordination for I was never there, I’d accept it.
Hmm anything else? I thought geript was funny. Lol scumato. FF was really scummy and yet so townish in his own way, I felt sorry. Suppose I was town, I could really go on, and I think I would have failed that reaction test by Kelsier, because I tend to stay back and analyze first even as town, because we still had so much time and so much things were going on.
I hope Jonny’s dog is fine, I love dogs too.
Yeah, sorry if you guys felt underwhelmed by this game. Lots of stuff came together.^^
GG.
Intrigued by this way of playing without knowing your role D1. With your two experiences now, what do you think of it ?
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yea gg rayn, I have to develop pushing and questioning skills before I wage this game as mafia standing alone against a bunch of divergent townies.^^
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GG, I'm glad we could get past our small differences d1 rayn at two points I was like you know this is stupid if rayn is town and I disengaged or tried to if I was overly bad mannered I'm sorry but when I realized my mistake I did try to back off.
And I guess my reads this game was pretty good had Jonny as scum most of d1 and plot scum for d2.
I did get side tracked on ff a bit but I just wanted him to play like I know he can.
anyway gg all.
##vote plot] XD
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Also yeah you didn't play horrible plot it basically came down to there weren't enough scummy people for you to get enough ml. Its no fault of your own, it was the reaction that got it for me though on the red check
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I didn't lie i would have voted for JL if i was around when he came back.
Onegu confirmed cannot read me anymore.
Sorry for my bad D1 play.
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I actually believe you the case rels put together was really good and he said a lot of things I wanted to and ninja'd me at points. And some of the things I brought up especialy about the vote and saying bye for no reasons made him mafia. and I pushed it home, I think it was really sheepable and no wonder scum team was a bit handicapped by no scum really pushing anything.
Your play d1 wasn't horrible rayn, you successfully identified town, you didn't want to end up fighting with me when we could have making it harder to find mafia and you were questioning scum plot so overall I think you played well.
I am sorry I called ff town but besides that I feel ok had a really hard time elaborating on gut reads this game though, or meta reads that were a bit harder to explain like why not to shoot yamato.
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On July 21 2015 21:24 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2015 21:16 plotspot wrote:
Nah, I concede, It’s difficult enough for me to scumhunt D1, now I actually have to make them up? Sorry, I’m not there yet. Lol and I hate lying, maybe I will if I can summarize lying into a greater concept.
And yeah rayn, while your reasons for scumreading me are good, it’s still only because I suck as town. D1 was my genuine towngame (and some people read it like that), because I only checked my role at the beginning of N1. That’s the reason why I didn’t know whether jonny was town or mafia, and really struggled with voting for him or not. I also honestly thought FF could be mafia, well not now anymore. I was thinking scumreading him, but no it’s stupid, I won’t do that.
The game you read where I had the chart thing, it was also D1 blind. I could have been mafia there too. The chart thing didn’t matter.^^. I guess Kelsier who cohosted this game with cakepie, never knew about it?
I just wanted to see what you guys will post for a while, but it’s kinda dead so yeah. Sorry I wanted to make it a bit more entertaining for you guys, but I guess it’s quite settled that you will win anyway so you are rather bored by it. It’s ok. I just thought I give you guys some time to “think” about stuff some more.XD
I think it was my fault, why this mafia game went to crap. I was never there D1. Jonny has 1 “hi”. Milo had one “hello” after 36 hours into D1. If they came here and say they lost motivation and didn’t see the chance to win because we lacked coordination for I was never there, I’d accept it.
Hmm anything else? I thought geript was funny. Lol scumato. FF was really scummy and yet so townish in his own way, I felt sorry. Suppose I was town, I could really go on, and I think I would have failed that reaction test by Kelsier, because I tend to stay back and analyze first even as town, because we still had so much time and so much things were going on.
I hope Jonny’s dog is fine, I love dogs too.
Yeah, sorry if you guys felt underwhelmed by this game. Lots of stuff came together.^^
GG. Intrigued by this way of playing without knowing your role D1. With your two experiences now, what do you think of it ?
It's actually 3.^^
Not sure, it's interesting. Presume I play blind and I play it perfectly, than it will come down to me scumreading myself if I was scum, because of PoE right? This game I really had most towns as town reads, maybe not Kelsier and ff because they were a bit strange.
Bur for example if I was scum and actually lynched another scum on D1, then find out about it N1, I basically have some town creds. If I had enough guts to point fingers and townies with actually another partner still alive and supporting, I think it's still no problem.
If I die as scum on D1 with that sort of play, the benefit would be that there is no connection established between me and my other scum mates. Also this means my town-game sucked and I got lynched D1. Fine too. Improve next time.
The thing is 75% of the time I should roll as town and whether I play a towngame as town or not knowing my role, it should be the same. 25% when I roll scum, the situation is still not lost as I decribed above, there are advantages and disadvantages, it totally depends on the scumteam too, like you see in this situation.
I'm not sure whether they were disheartened or were simply absent for some reason.
I think I'll definitely try this in a next game too, it will be interesting to see how people react to it too, when they actually know or suspect that I actually do this stuff. Like what would you do to a guy who doesn't know his role? Policy lynch him? As town you'd think "ok this guy is definitely helping town with scumhunting here, but it obviously depends on how good he is at it, and then he could be still scum 25% of the time, do I wait and someone cop-check hims later or what?" Many options. As scum you'd think "ok, I know definitely this guys is town. Do we get rid of him and slowly push a policy lynch on him, would that not make us suspicious? Is he any good as town? Should we let him live and push a lynch later?" or they go "ok this guy is stupid, he is scum, but doesn't come here, we have to decide what we do with him, not that he busses us without knowing, is he smart enough to scumread us?"
I could go on with this but it's just so many things. I was actually intending to continue playing in the dark. But the whole milo thing and that I basically read almost everyone town kinda makes think I might be scum here, and so it was.^^
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I think you will find that 9/10 people will policy lynch you for not reading your role pm, it was a thing awhile ago and I think if people know/find out you will get lynched d1 regardless. It makes you unreadable to an extent but meh
Milo is usually pretty active idk what was up with that weird.
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On July 21 2015 21:52 plotspot wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2015 21:24 Rels wrote:On July 21 2015 21:16 plotspot wrote:
Nah, I concede, It’s difficult enough for me to scumhunt D1, now I actually have to make them up? Sorry, I’m not there yet. Lol and I hate lying, maybe I will if I can summarize lying into a greater concept.
And yeah rayn, while your reasons for scumreading me are good, it’s still only because I suck as town. D1 was my genuine towngame (and some people read it like that), because I only checked my role at the beginning of N1. That’s the reason why I didn’t know whether jonny was town or mafia, and really struggled with voting for him or not. I also honestly thought FF could be mafia, well not now anymore. I was thinking scumreading him, but no it’s stupid, I won’t do that.
The game you read where I had the chart thing, it was also D1 blind. I could have been mafia there too. The chart thing didn’t matter.^^. I guess Kelsier who cohosted this game with cakepie, never knew about it?
I just wanted to see what you guys will post for a while, but it’s kinda dead so yeah. Sorry I wanted to make it a bit more entertaining for you guys, but I guess it’s quite settled that you will win anyway so you are rather bored by it. It’s ok. I just thought I give you guys some time to “think” about stuff some more.XD
I think it was my fault, why this mafia game went to crap. I was never there D1. Jonny has 1 “hi”. Milo had one “hello” after 36 hours into D1. If they came here and say they lost motivation and didn’t see the chance to win because we lacked coordination for I was never there, I’d accept it.
Hmm anything else? I thought geript was funny. Lol scumato. FF was really scummy and yet so townish in his own way, I felt sorry. Suppose I was town, I could really go on, and I think I would have failed that reaction test by Kelsier, because I tend to stay back and analyze first even as town, because we still had so much time and so much things were going on.
I hope Jonny’s dog is fine, I love dogs too.
Yeah, sorry if you guys felt underwhelmed by this game. Lots of stuff came together.^^
GG. Intrigued by this way of playing without knowing your role D1. With your two experiences now, what do you think of it ? It's actually 3.^^ Not sure, it's interesting. Presume I play blind and I play it perfectly, than it will come down to me scumreading myself if I was scum, because of PoE right? This game I really had most towns as town reads, maybe not Kelsier and ff because they were a bit strange. Bur for example if I was scum and actually lynched another scum on D1, then find out about it N1, I basically have some town creds. If I had enough guts to point fingers and townies with actually another partner still alive and supporting, I think it's still no problem. If I die as scum on D1 with that sort of play, the benefit would be that there is no connection established between me and my other scum mates. Also this means my town-game sucked and I got lynched D1. Fine too. Improve next time. The thing is 75% of the time I should roll as town and whether I play a towngame as town or not knowing my role, it should be the same. 25% when I roll scum, the situation is still not lost as I decribed above, there are advantages and disadvantages, it totally depends on the scumteam too, like you see in this situation. I'm not sure whether they were disheartened or were simply absent for some reason. I think I'll definitely try this in a next game too, it will be interesting to see how people react to it too, when they actually know or suspect that I actually do this stuff. Like what would you do to a guy who doesn't know his role? Policy lynch him? As town you'd think "ok this guy is definitely helping town with scumhunting here, but it obviously depends on how good he is at it, and then he could be still scum 25% of the time, do I wait and someone cop-check hims later or what?" Many options. As scum you'd think "ok, I know definitely this guys is town. Do we get rid of him and slowly push a policy lynch on him, would that not make us suspicious? Is he any good as town? Should we let him live and push a lynch later?" or they go "ok this guy is stupid, he is scum, but doesn't come here, we have to decide what we do with him, not that he busses us without knowing, is he smart enough to scumread us?" I could go on with this but it's just so many things. I was actually intending to continue playing in the dark. But the whole milo thing and that I basically read almost everyone town kinda makes think I might be scum here, and so it was.^^
LOL can imagine your feeling EOD1 "fuck I must be scum right ?"
It seems like a super interesting experience I wanna try one day. But sorry, if I know you're doing this in a game I'm in, I will be part of the policy lynch. (=
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BTW you were vanilla goon too ? geript was right I suppose!
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Well my case on plotspot boiled down to there is noone else who can be mafia..
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On July 21 2015 21:41 Damdred wrote:
Also yeah you didn't play horrible plot it basically came down to there weren't enough scummy people for you to get enough ml. Its no fault of your own, it was the reaction that got it for me though on the red check
yeah that's the main point, not enought scummy people. But I really think Kel could still be cop here, he got his reactions regardless and established so many people town.
On July 21 2015 21:55 Damdred wrote:
I think you will find that 9/10 people will policy lynch you for not reading your role pm, it was a thing awhile ago and I think if people know/find out you will get lynched d1 regardless. It makes you unreadable to an extent but meh
Milo is usually pretty active idk what was up with that weird.
ok, I kinda understand that. The whole uncertainty is something nobody especially a townie can bear for very long am I right? So they just kill to have the certainty, otherwise there is always this guy floating around, which you cannot absoluetely town or scumread for ANY reason. I think it really gets on their nerves.
I thought it was the same for the Onegu redcheck, if you think about it for a while even as town, it makes no sense like geripts points it town. Let's assume you come to the conclusion that Onegu is town, you lynched another person and the game doesn't end. You still have this redcheck piercing your eyes the whole time. ^^
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On July 21 2015 22:02 Rels wrote:
BTW you were vanilla goon too ? geript was right I suppose!
nah you'll see why I believe Kels is cop.^^
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EPT
