On June 17 2015 07:06 LightningStrike wrote: Hi guys I finally rolled town and I hope bugs had rolled town too since he played really good in the last game I played with him when I was scum vs his town :o
derp.
LOL
good old LightningStrike
he used :o already but I imagine if he rolled scum he'll be more careful this time to not get caught by me. Take this as your warning, you know that I know your meta. You better help me out this game or I hope for your sake that you are scum, cause you'll be dead before you know it.
anyway, come out and play, Mig. You better not have rolled scum this game or I'll be disappointed I have no one good to talk to
On June 17 2015 07:06 LightningStrike wrote: Hi guys I finally rolled town and I hope bugs had rolled town too since he played really good in the last game I played with him when I was scum vs his town :o
derp.
LOL
good old LightningStrike
he used :o already but I imagine if he rolled scum he'll be more careful this time to not get caught by me. Take this as your warning, you know that I know your meta. You better help me out this game or I hope for your sake that you are scum, cause you'll be dead before you know it.
anyway, come out and play, Mig. You better not have rolled scum this game or I'll be disappointed I have no one good to talk to
##vote Mig
I know you know my meta and willing to work with you this time since I town and hope that you are town too Any thoughts on Onegu's entrance and our responses to it?
I haven't read anything yet but given how Onegu normally plays I bet it's probably impossible to tell what he is
does anyone know if Nydus is a smurf? I see that almost all of his posts are in the mafia forum but the account is actually pretty old
On June 17 2015 07:06 LightningStrike wrote: Hi guys I finally rolled town and I hope bugs had rolled town too since he played really good in the last game I played with him when I was scum vs his town :o
derp.
LOL
good old LightningStrike
he used :o already but I imagine if he rolled scum he'll be more careful this time to not get caught by me. Take this as your warning, you know that I know your meta. You better help me out this game or I hope for your sake that you are scum, cause you'll be dead before you know it.
anyway, come out and play, Mig. You better not have rolled scum this game or I'll be disappointed I have no one good to talk to
##vote Mig
I know you know my meta and willing to work with you this time since I town and hope that you are town too Any thoughts on Onegu's entrance and our responses to it?
I haven't read anything yet but given how Onegu normally plays I bet it's probably impossible to tell what he is
does anyone know if Nydus is a smurf? I see that almost all of his posts are in the mafia forum but the account is actually pretty old
Nydus isn't a smurf as I know seeing how he played some games just recently.
on a scale of 1 to 10 how bad would you rate Nydus
On June 17 2015 07:06 LightningStrike wrote: Hi guys I finally rolled town and I hope bugs had rolled town too since he played really good in the last game I played with him when I was scum vs his town :o
derp.
LOL
good old LightningStrike
he used :o already but I imagine if he rolled scum he'll be more careful this time to not get caught by me. Take this as your warning, you know that I know your meta. You better help me out this game or I hope for your sake that you are scum, cause you'll be dead before you know it.
anyway, come out and play, Mig. You better not have rolled scum this game or I'll be disappointed I have no one good to talk to
##vote Mig
I know you know my meta and willing to work with you this time since I town and hope that you are town too Any thoughts on Onegu's entrance and our responses to it?
I haven't read anything yet but given how Onegu normally plays I bet it's probably impossible to tell what he is
does anyone know if Nydus is a smurf? I see that almost all of his posts are in the mafia forum but the account is actually pretty old
Nydus isn't a smurf as I know seeing how he played some games just recently.
on a scale of 1 to 10 how bad would you rate Nydus
Why does this matter? Also, glowingbear just modded a game I was in and I think he was in my first game as well so he's probably a better judge of my abilities (or lack of).
On June 17 2015 07:06 LightningStrike wrote: Hi guys I finally rolled town and I hope bugs had rolled town too since he played really good in the last game I played with him when I was scum vs his town :o
derp.
LOL
good old LightningStrike
he used :o already but I imagine if he rolled scum he'll be more careful this time to not get caught by me. Take this as your warning, you know that I know your meta. You better help me out this game or I hope for your sake that you are scum, cause you'll be dead before you know it.
anyway, come out and play, Mig. You better not have rolled scum this game or I'll be disappointed I have no one good to talk to
##vote Mig
I know you know my meta and willing to work with you this time since I town and hope that you are town too Any thoughts on Onegu's entrance and our responses to it?
I haven't read anything yet but given how Onegu normally plays I bet it's probably impossible to tell what he is
does anyone know if Nydus is a smurf? I see that almost all of his posts are in the mafia forum but the account is actually pretty old
Nydus isn't a smurf as I know seeing how he played some games just recently.
D: ...
also is this a disagreement or what
can you answer the question? Yes or no, are you, NydusHerMain, a smurf? How many games of mafia on this forum have you played? And if you don't mind me asking, which ones? Is it only holy guardians?
On June 17 2015 07:06 LightningStrike wrote: Hi guys I finally rolled town and I hope bugs had rolled town too since he played really good in the last game I played with him when I was scum vs his town :o
derp.
LOL
good old LightningStrike
he used :o already but I imagine if he rolled scum he'll be more careful this time to not get caught by me. Take this as your warning, you know that I know your meta. You better help me out this game or I hope for your sake that you are scum, cause you'll be dead before you know it.
anyway, come out and play, Mig. You better not have rolled scum this game or I'll be disappointed I have no one good to talk to
##vote Mig
lol that has to be the most fabricated, weak shit i've ever seen.
Actually he does know my meta and in fact he made a meta case on me in Witchcraft III when I rolled scum and here was the case:
On June 09 2015 05:35 wherebugsgo wrote: ##vote LightningStrike
I think Lightning is like 95% scum.
At first in my notes I had Lightning as having a scummy entrance, focusing a lot on asking people questions but using a tone and posting style that is very non-confrontational. This causes LS's posts to come off as forced and I find it hard to piece together his logic if he were town. e.g. this post:
On June 08 2015 08:49 LightningStrike wrote:
On June 08 2015 08:44 Breshke wrote:
On June 08 2015 08:35 LightningStrike wrote: So Breshke any thoughts on Wherebugsgo right now?
not really. Do you?
On June 08 2015 08:36 wherebugsgo wrote:
On June 08 2015 08:31 Breshke wrote: Hi
On June 08 2015 08:30 wherebugsgo wrote:
On June 08 2015 08:28 Kickstart wrote:
On June 08 2015 08:26 LightningStrike wrote: Hi guys I just got around to post and saw that Kickstart made a pact with the devil himself -_- Also I don't like Wherebugsgo voting FreezingFoot on the fact that FreezingFoot is a potential smurf. @Kickstart thoughts on Wherebugsgo attacking FreezingFoot for being a smurf?
Being a smurf is not alignment indicative.
refusing to divulge relevant information sure is!
identity is a large part of mafia.
So do you think someone that has chosen to smurf is more likely to reveal who they are as town or mafia then?
I think they would be more likely to reveal themselves as town.
Granted, a smurf does not have to reveal themselves to be useful to town. I have smurfed myself, and the reason I do it is often quite simple-most people don't ask, and those who do can be placated by providing opinions and good reads. I have never had the luxury of rolling scum while smurfing, but if I ever did I do not doubt it would be one of the easiest ways to achieve victory.
It is plainly obvious why smurfing is far more advantageous to the individual player than the team as a whole. The town only benefits if the player who is smurfing is a high caliber town player, rolls town, and escapes getting shot night 1 due to being a smurf. Otherwise, town stands to gain nothing from a mediocre townie or a bad townie smurfing other than a lack of insight into the player's behaviour.
You should always hold smurfs to a higher standard because if they refuse to reveal their identity then you have no background to be working with. You have no expectation of their play, and an ordinarily good townie has rolled scum on a smurf you have no way of knowing.
Yeah I understand this but that doesn't make not revealing who you are to be alignment indicative. If someone has chosen to smurf they have chosen pre game that they probably don't want to reveal who they are. I feel like saying, reveal yourself or get lynched, is a waste because it depends on the player on how they will act so you can't really get much from that.
Also to talk about this now instead of when mafia will be trying to hunt roles. I think it is best in at least the first phase that a lot of the chosen powers are information type roles specifically scrying
I kinda dislike his pressure on FreezingFoot since FreezingFoot could be a smurf and him calling him out so early just seems like it's a preplanned motion from him regardless of his alignment so null.
Notice the qualifications I've bolded here.
He doesn't like it, but goes back and says oh I guess it could be preplanned. So it's null. Null is not a read.
There's also this that follows:
On June 08 2015 08:50 LightningStrike wrote: Also sure it would be nice knowing FreezingFoot's aka but it's not as important as finding scum.
Notice LS says it's not as important as finding scum but LS doesn't actually ever attempt to find scum.
Half of LS's posts focus on "hey I'll be back later" and are also seemingly very self-aware. e.g:
On June 08 2015 09:02 LightningStrike wrote: Well guys I going to get some dinner and when I come back I will check everything that goes on after this post!
Townies don't generally do this so freaking often. You don't need to announce to everyone that you're going to do your job as a townie, unless you are very new or scum.
TL Mafia database has a LOT of games for LS. So he is NOT a new player. This instantly made me more suspicious, but I wanted to see if as town LS was more confident and helpful. Turns out, LS is one of those players I would say has a very clear cut difference between town and mafia. I would suggest you all to skim over some of LS's past games, but in particular the ones that stand out are:
LightningStrike wrote: I'm back and I finding Geript pretty townie this game but than again I never played vs his Mafia yet but so far I feel he's pushing and asking a ton of questions is pretty much him being town. Slam is thinking logically so far although I hate how he suggested a RNG shot Blazinghand style but he been pushing out ideas and not being boring like he was in Slytherin and Student IV when he was Mafia so I giving him a town read by meta. HTS looks really shakey and starting to look a tiny bit like her Void and Newbie LX Mafia games so possible Mafia by meta. rsoultin I love you and all but I need some extra time on you from the fact that I just coming off of 2 games of you being Mafia and might get some paranoia which I might have still on HTS because I not completely forgiven her for lynching me in Newbie LX. But you being very cheerful so far but idk if that is alignment indicative. Tubesock I hated the No Shoot idea but the logic behind it seems townie but I have yet to see him play as Mafia. Breshke is asking some questions and also reconsider his own thoughts and looks townie. Damdred you need to bleed town this game to me because the last time I played with you in Titanic you were Mafia yet you looked so townie in my eyes I just couldn't really play right Your Mom and Sepulchre are both smurfs and idk their other ids but I finding Sepulchre pretty townie on his large post and asking questions with some good explanations for why he thought of stuff like HTS making them intentionally bad or bait and his thing on OBS but I remember OBS having bad Day 1s as town so I would give OBS some extra time to see if he bleeds town. Your Mom haven't posted much either and got Null on him simply because he got very short questions and posts so far so I might need more posts from him to see where he lies for now.
vs
2.
LightningStrike wrote: Town: Eden: Played with before when he was Mafia and Town but we he seems to be town this game. Geript: Toneread says town he seems to ask some good questions. Snickers: Being extremely serious and giving his thoughts freely it kind of reminds me of a more serious me. Oatsmaster: Trying to get discussions going with pms and stuff but also he just being himself as town this game. Liancourt: He seems interested this game which is a good sign for him being town although I never him play as Mafia before. Null: Koshi: 1 post from him this game and it isn't really alignment indicative. sicklucker: I can't read him anymore on Day 1 after playing with him when he was Mafia and I was town. Also his Day 1 is bad. VisceraEyes: 1 post and wasn't alignment indicative need more posts from him.
LightningStrike wrote: I don't disagree for now on the Eden read. Rsoultin just seems to happy to be Mafia given she played as Mafia twice in a row into Town with me lol. I'm sorry I was Mafia in that game Damdred it just hurt when you called me Mafia but Geript carried me till he died and did a hilarious bus on Sandroba when sicklucker got lynched lol........
LightningStrike wrote: I agree with you on kita Rayn considering a lot has happened since his last post and not really commenting anything relevant except for the shot ideas. Also I remember Toad being mostly carefree early in Hammertime when I was a Cohost when he was Town and he coming across the same way so I incline to think he's town. Rayn you know how to read Sicklucker from my past experience with you and him together any thoughts on Sicklucker so far?
LightningStrike wrote: Sorry I was playing LoL game and HF's case on JAT is legit now that we seen HF flip Town and he made many good points on JAT and honestly the bully behavior that JAT displayed this game when people were voting is consistent with his behavior in Void mafia where he bullied people off him in the entire game as scum. Here's his filter from that game although he just was smurfing in that game that is why the name might be off His scum game in Void: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/475749-the-void-mafia?user=Wile E. Coyote
LightningStrike wrote: I'm back and sicklucker is fighting Breshke instead of the other cell mates o.o Also Geript being mad at Kita too and Tube fighting Geript this is interesting stuff going on here and personally I never played in a Cell Setup before so this interesting. Also Geript claimed he got Vig powers and claimed to had shot Sep but yet Sep survived so most likely Ninja in Sep if what Geript was saying is true. I will admit I guarded the Button since we don't know what the button does I thought it was safe play since it kind of like the presents in Carol where we gotten random Presents 1 from a Mass Murderer when unwraped instant kill the person 1 with a Cop power for the Night and 1 with a Vig Shot for the Night and since it prob pure rng what we get I really don't want to give Mafia extra powers or extra powers for ninjas either and weighed it in myself and decided to guard the button.
vs
2.
LightningStrike wrote: Sorry for not posting much and a update on reading Sandro's past games and will come up with stuff for tomorrow and sicklucker paranoia went through my head sorry and now seeing some light that you are more likely town than Mafia. Tomorrow I will present my findings on Sandro's past games as both alignments and present everything I have on him.
vs
3.
LightningStrike wrote: I was just wating for more posts to get some better reads that why I haven't posted much because there was really much for me to ready. I still waiting for alakaslam, Dicksmash McIroncock, and Meatpudding to post. My reads are atm the following Town: Oatsmaster, sicklucker, Damdred, kushm4sta, Trfel Null: Half the Sky, Breshke, Alakaslam Scum: Dicksmash McIroncock, Meatpudding. Dicksmash didn't post anything after his first post for the day and Meatpudding is either trolling us with the stuff he posted earlier or he scum but time will tell. Alakaslam at least gave a good explanation for his posts. Breshke gave a explanation on why he voted for sicklucker Half the Sky made some decent posts but it reads null in my eyes but I still kind of new to TL Mafia (2nd game in TL mafia).
vs
4.
LightningStrike wrote: Guys fyi I wont be here from about 11:45 am to at least 4:30 pm CST and I still think Sandroba is Mafia based on meta and Oats I getting him as Town as he playing like he did in Office, Void, and New Years Eve Party where he was a little lazy but he seemed a little motivated now to play the game although I wished he had played on Day 1 but he's here now.
5.
On March 08 2015 22:39 LightningStrike wrote: Just woke up and will answer your question. Tubesock I thinking some resemblances of her last game in Titanic now and Day 1 I had paranoia because before Titanic when I played her she was Mafia and rolled Mafia in another game too. The reason I seeing some resemblances from this game to Titanic because in that game she also was confused on setup stuff esp on the fact we had 2 Jail Keepers ( Nigella in Carol) and she having some confusions this game on setup stuff too. So a slight Town meta read on her.
Onegu since you confirmed town by the Cop Check I will do as you ask just promise me you shoot Geript okay?
HTS Happy Birthday Girl I assuming you going to party for a bit ##Unvote ##Vote: Onegu
LS's scum play is very very non confrontational and he generally gets away pretty well with just asking questions and making excuses for not having strong opinions or posting much. Tends to be very self-conscious in the thread when he rolls scum, which makes it very easy to recognize him
He knows me inside and out :o
But now you're self aware of it and it can't be used anymore
On June 17 2015 07:06 LightningStrike wrote: Hi guys I finally rolled town and I hope bugs had rolled town too since he played really good in the last game I played with him when I was scum vs his town :o
derp.
LOL
good old LightningStrike
he used :o already but I imagine if he rolled scum he'll be more careful this time to not get caught by me. Take this as your warning, you know that I know your meta. You better help me out this game or I hope for your sake that you are scum, cause you'll be dead before you know it.
anyway, come out and play, Mig. You better not have rolled scum this game or I'll be disappointed I have no one good to talk to
##vote Mig
I know you know my meta and willing to work with you this time since I town and hope that you are town too Any thoughts on Onegu's entrance and our responses to it?
I haven't read anything yet but given how Onegu normally plays I bet it's probably impossible to tell what he is
does anyone know if Nydus is a smurf? I see that almost all of his posts are in the mafia forum but the account is actually pretty old
Nydus isn't a smurf as I know seeing how he played some games just recently.
D: ...
also is this a disagreement or what
can you answer the question? Yes or no, are you, NydusHerMain, a smurf? How many games of mafia on this forum have you played? And if you don't mind me asking, which ones? Is it only holy guardians?
I've played 2 games of forum mafia on teamliquid and that's it. It's not a disagreement but rather a "he's calling me bad T.T" . This is going to be my third game ever.
On June 17 2015 07:06 LightningStrike wrote: Hi guys I finally rolled town and I hope bugs had rolled town too since he played really good in the last game I played with him when I was scum vs his town :o
derp.
LOL
good old LightningStrike
he used :o already but I imagine if he rolled scum he'll be more careful this time to not get caught by me. Take this as your warning, you know that I know your meta. You better help me out this game or I hope for your sake that you are scum, cause you'll be dead before you know it.
anyway, come out and play, Mig. You better not have rolled scum this game or I'll be disappointed I have no one good to talk to
##vote Mig
lol that has to be the most fabricated, weak shit i've ever seen.
Actually he does know my meta and in fact he made a meta case on me in Witchcraft III when I rolled scum and here was the case:
On June 09 2015 05:35 wherebugsgo wrote: ##vote LightningStrike
I think Lightning is like 95% scum.
At first in my notes I had Lightning as having a scummy entrance, focusing a lot on asking people questions but using a tone and posting style that is very non-confrontational. This causes LS's posts to come off as forced and I find it hard to piece together his logic if he were town. e.g. this post:
On June 08 2015 08:49 LightningStrike wrote:
On June 08 2015 08:44 Breshke wrote:
On June 08 2015 08:35 LightningStrike wrote: So Breshke any thoughts on Wherebugsgo right now?
not really. Do you?
On June 08 2015 08:36 wherebugsgo wrote:
On June 08 2015 08:31 Breshke wrote: Hi
On June 08 2015 08:30 wherebugsgo wrote: [quote]
refusing to divulge relevant information sure is!
identity is a large part of mafia.
So do you think someone that has chosen to smurf is more likely to reveal who they are as town or mafia then?
I think they would be more likely to reveal themselves as town.
Granted, a smurf does not have to reveal themselves to be useful to town. I have smurfed myself, and the reason I do it is often quite simple-most people don't ask, and those who do can be placated by providing opinions and good reads. I have never had the luxury of rolling scum while smurfing, but if I ever did I do not doubt it would be one of the easiest ways to achieve victory.
It is plainly obvious why smurfing is far more advantageous to the individual player than the team as a whole. The town only benefits if the player who is smurfing is a high caliber town player, rolls town, and escapes getting shot night 1 due to being a smurf. Otherwise, town stands to gain nothing from a mediocre townie or a bad townie smurfing other than a lack of insight into the player's behaviour.
You should always hold smurfs to a higher standard because if they refuse to reveal their identity then you have no background to be working with. You have no expectation of their play, and an ordinarily good townie has rolled scum on a smurf you have no way of knowing.
Yeah I understand this but that doesn't make not revealing who you are to be alignment indicative. If someone has chosen to smurf they have chosen pre game that they probably don't want to reveal who they are. I feel like saying, reveal yourself or get lynched, is a waste because it depends on the player on how they will act so you can't really get much from that.
Also to talk about this now instead of when mafia will be trying to hunt roles. I think it is best in at least the first phase that a lot of the chosen powers are information type roles specifically scrying
I kinda dislike his pressure on FreezingFoot since FreezingFoot could be a smurf and him calling him out so early just seems like it's a preplanned motion from him regardless of his alignment so null.
Notice the qualifications I've bolded here.
He doesn't like it, but goes back and says oh I guess it could be preplanned. So it's null. Null is not a read.
There's also this that follows:
On June 08 2015 08:50 LightningStrike wrote: Also sure it would be nice knowing FreezingFoot's aka but it's not as important as finding scum.
Notice LS says it's not as important as finding scum but LS doesn't actually ever attempt to find scum.
Half of LS's posts focus on "hey I'll be back later" and are also seemingly very self-aware. e.g:
On June 08 2015 09:02 LightningStrike wrote: Well guys I going to get some dinner and when I come back I will check everything that goes on after this post!
Townies don't generally do this so freaking often. You don't need to announce to everyone that you're going to do your job as a townie, unless you are very new or scum.
TL Mafia database has a LOT of games for LS. So he is NOT a new player. This instantly made me more suspicious, but I wanted to see if as town LS was more confident and helpful. Turns out, LS is one of those players I would say has a very clear cut difference between town and mafia. I would suggest you all to skim over some of LS's past games, but in particular the ones that stand out are:
LightningStrike wrote: I'm back and I finding Geript pretty townie this game but than again I never played vs his Mafia yet but so far I feel he's pushing and asking a ton of questions is pretty much him being town. Slam is thinking logically so far although I hate how he suggested a RNG shot Blazinghand style but he been pushing out ideas and not being boring like he was in Slytherin and Student IV when he was Mafia so I giving him a town read by meta. HTS looks really shakey and starting to look a tiny bit like her Void and Newbie LX Mafia games so possible Mafia by meta. rsoultin I love you and all but I need some extra time on you from the fact that I just coming off of 2 games of you being Mafia and might get some paranoia which I might have still on HTS because I not completely forgiven her for lynching me in Newbie LX. But you being very cheerful so far but idk if that is alignment indicative. Tubesock I hated the No Shoot idea but the logic behind it seems townie but I have yet to see him play as Mafia. Breshke is asking some questions and also reconsider his own thoughts and looks townie. Damdred you need to bleed town this game to me because the last time I played with you in Titanic you were Mafia yet you looked so townie in my eyes I just couldn't really play right Your Mom and Sepulchre are both smurfs and idk their other ids but I finding Sepulchre pretty townie on his large post and asking questions with some good explanations for why he thought of stuff like HTS making them intentionally bad or bait and his thing on OBS but I remember OBS having bad Day 1s as town so I would give OBS some extra time to see if he bleeds town. Your Mom haven't posted much either and got Null on him simply because he got very short questions and posts so far so I might need more posts from him to see where he lies for now.
vs
2.
LightningStrike wrote: Town: Eden: Played with before when he was Mafia and Town but we he seems to be town this game. Geript: Toneread says town he seems to ask some good questions. Snickers: Being extremely serious and giving his thoughts freely it kind of reminds me of a more serious me. Oatsmaster: Trying to get discussions going with pms and stuff but also he just being himself as town this game. Liancourt: He seems interested this game which is a good sign for him being town although I never him play as Mafia before. Null: Koshi: 1 post from him this game and it isn't really alignment indicative. sicklucker: I can't read him anymore on Day 1 after playing with him when he was Mafia and I was town. Also his Day 1 is bad. VisceraEyes: 1 post and wasn't alignment indicative need more posts from him.
LightningStrike wrote: I don't disagree for now on the Eden read. Rsoultin just seems to happy to be Mafia given she played as Mafia twice in a row into Town with me lol. I'm sorry I was Mafia in that game Damdred it just hurt when you called me Mafia but Geript carried me till he died and did a hilarious bus on Sandroba when sicklucker got lynched lol........
LightningStrike wrote: I agree with you on kita Rayn considering a lot has happened since his last post and not really commenting anything relevant except for the shot ideas. Also I remember Toad being mostly carefree early in Hammertime when I was a Cohost when he was Town and he coming across the same way so I incline to think he's town. Rayn you know how to read Sicklucker from my past experience with you and him together any thoughts on Sicklucker so far?
LightningStrike wrote: Sorry I was playing LoL game and HF's case on JAT is legit now that we seen HF flip Town and he made many good points on JAT and honestly the bully behavior that JAT displayed this game when people were voting is consistent with his behavior in Void mafia where he bullied people off him in the entire game as scum. Here's his filter from that game although he just was smurfing in that game that is why the name might be off His scum game in Void: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/475749-the-void-mafia?user=Wile E. Coyote
LightningStrike wrote: I'm back and sicklucker is fighting Breshke instead of the other cell mates o.o Also Geript being mad at Kita too and Tube fighting Geript this is interesting stuff going on here and personally I never played in a Cell Setup before so this interesting. Also Geript claimed he got Vig powers and claimed to had shot Sep but yet Sep survived so most likely Ninja in Sep if what Geript was saying is true. I will admit I guarded the Button since we don't know what the button does I thought it was safe play since it kind of like the presents in Carol where we gotten random Presents 1 from a Mass Murderer when unwraped instant kill the person 1 with a Cop power for the Night and 1 with a Vig Shot for the Night and since it prob pure rng what we get I really don't want to give Mafia extra powers or extra powers for ninjas either and weighed it in myself and decided to guard the button.
vs
2.
LightningStrike wrote: Sorry for not posting much and a update on reading Sandro's past games and will come up with stuff for tomorrow and sicklucker paranoia went through my head sorry and now seeing some light that you are more likely town than Mafia. Tomorrow I will present my findings on Sandro's past games as both alignments and present everything I have on him.
vs
3.
LightningStrike wrote: I was just wating for more posts to get some better reads that why I haven't posted much because there was really much for me to ready. I still waiting for alakaslam, Dicksmash McIroncock, and Meatpudding to post. My reads are atm the following Town: Oatsmaster, sicklucker, Damdred, kushm4sta, Trfel Null: Half the Sky, Breshke, Alakaslam Scum: Dicksmash McIroncock, Meatpudding. Dicksmash didn't post anything after his first post for the day and Meatpudding is either trolling us with the stuff he posted earlier or he scum but time will tell. Alakaslam at least gave a good explanation for his posts. Breshke gave a explanation on why he voted for sicklucker Half the Sky made some decent posts but it reads null in my eyes but I still kind of new to TL Mafia (2nd game in TL mafia).
vs
4.
LightningStrike wrote: Guys fyi I wont be here from about 11:45 am to at least 4:30 pm CST and I still think Sandroba is Mafia based on meta and Oats I getting him as Town as he playing like he did in Office, Void, and New Years Eve Party where he was a little lazy but he seemed a little motivated now to play the game although I wished he had played on Day 1 but he's here now.
5.
On March 08 2015 22:39 LightningStrike wrote: Just woke up and will answer your question. Tubesock I thinking some resemblances of her last game in Titanic now and Day 1 I had paranoia because before Titanic when I played her she was Mafia and rolled Mafia in another game too. The reason I seeing some resemblances from this game to Titanic because in that game she also was confused on setup stuff esp on the fact we had 2 Jail Keepers ( Nigella in Carol) and she having some confusions this game on setup stuff too. So a slight Town meta read on her.
Onegu since you confirmed town by the Cop Check I will do as you ask just promise me you shoot Geript okay?
HTS Happy Birthday Girl I assuming you going to party for a bit ##Unvote ##Vote: Onegu
LS's scum play is very very non confrontational and he generally gets away pretty well with just asking questions and making excuses for not having strong opinions or posting much. Tends to be very self-conscious in the thread when he rolls scum, which makes it very easy to recognize him
He knows me inside and out :o
But now you're self aware of it and it can't be used anymore
I was just making a point to KSC as to why I didn't think it was fabricated stuff from bugs that's all.
I see that he made a good case on you in a previous game. that wasn't what was fabricated. The content of the post i quoted was weak and fabricated. my mafia sensor went red alert.
do you even know what the word "fabricated" means?
If anything here is fabricated it's your reason for voting me
On June 17 2015 07:31 LightningStrike wrote: [quote] Really anyone can just claim town you know -_-
On June 17 2015 07:06 LightningStrike wrote: Hi guys I finally rolled town and I hope bugs had rolled town too since he played really good in the last game I played with him when I was scum vs his town :o
derp.
LOL
good old LightningStrike
he used :o already but I imagine if he rolled scum he'll be more careful this time to not get caught by me. Take this as your warning, you know that I know your meta. You better help me out this game or I hope for your sake that you are scum, cause you'll be dead before you know it.
anyway, come out and play, Mig. You better not have rolled scum this game or I'll be disappointed I have no one good to talk to
##vote Mig
lol that has to be the most fabricated, weak shit i've ever seen.
Actually he does know my meta and in fact he made a meta case on me in Witchcraft III when I rolled scum and here was the case:
On June 09 2015 05:35 wherebugsgo wrote: ##vote LightningStrike
I think Lightning is like 95% scum.
At first in my notes I had Lightning as having a scummy entrance, focusing a lot on asking people questions but using a tone and posting style that is very non-confrontational. This causes LS's posts to come off as forced and I find it hard to piece together his logic if he were town. e.g. this post:
On June 08 2015 08:49 LightningStrike wrote:
On June 08 2015 08:44 Breshke wrote:
On June 08 2015 08:35 LightningStrike wrote: So Breshke any thoughts on Wherebugsgo right now?
not really. Do you?
On June 08 2015 08:36 wherebugsgo wrote: [quote]
I think they would be more likely to reveal themselves as town.
Granted, a smurf does not have to reveal themselves to be useful to town. I have smurfed myself, and the reason I do it is often quite simple-most people don't ask, and those who do can be placated by providing opinions and good reads. I have never had the luxury of rolling scum while smurfing, but if I ever did I do not doubt it would be one of the easiest ways to achieve victory.
It is plainly obvious why smurfing is far more advantageous to the individual player than the team as a whole. The town only benefits if the player who is smurfing is a high caliber town player, rolls town, and escapes getting shot night 1 due to being a smurf. Otherwise, town stands to gain nothing from a mediocre townie or a bad townie smurfing other than a lack of insight into the player's behaviour.
You should always hold smurfs to a higher standard because if they refuse to reveal their identity then you have no background to be working with. You have no expectation of their play, and an ordinarily good townie has rolled scum on a smurf you have no way of knowing.
Yeah I understand this but that doesn't make not revealing who you are to be alignment indicative. If someone has chosen to smurf they have chosen pre game that they probably don't want to reveal who they are. I feel like saying, reveal yourself or get lynched, is a waste because it depends on the player on how they will act so you can't really get much from that.
Also to talk about this now instead of when mafia will be trying to hunt roles. I think it is best in at least the first phase that a lot of the chosen powers are information type roles specifically scrying
I kinda dislike his pressure on FreezingFoot since FreezingFoot could be a smurf and him calling him out so early just seems like it's a preplanned motion from him regardless of his alignment so null.
Notice the qualifications I've bolded here.
He doesn't like it, but goes back and says oh I guess it could be preplanned. So it's null. Null is not a read.
There's also this that follows:
On June 08 2015 08:50 LightningStrike wrote: Also sure it would be nice knowing FreezingFoot's aka but it's not as important as finding scum.
Notice LS says it's not as important as finding scum but LS doesn't actually ever attempt to find scum.
Half of LS's posts focus on "hey I'll be back later" and are also seemingly very self-aware. e.g:
On June 08 2015 09:02 LightningStrike wrote: Well guys I going to get some dinner and when I come back I will check everything that goes on after this post!
Townies don't generally do this so freaking often. You don't need to announce to everyone that you're going to do your job as a townie, unless you are very new or scum.
TL Mafia database has a LOT of games for LS. So he is NOT a new player. This instantly made me more suspicious, but I wanted to see if as town LS was more confident and helpful. Turns out, LS is one of those players I would say has a very clear cut difference between town and mafia. I would suggest you all to skim over some of LS's past games, but in particular the ones that stand out are:
LightningStrike wrote: I'm back and I finding Geript pretty townie this game but than again I never played vs his Mafia yet but so far I feel he's pushing and asking a ton of questions is pretty much him being town. Slam is thinking logically so far although I hate how he suggested a RNG shot Blazinghand style but he been pushing out ideas and not being boring like he was in Slytherin and Student IV when he was Mafia so I giving him a town read by meta. HTS looks really shakey and starting to look a tiny bit like her Void and Newbie LX Mafia games so possible Mafia by meta. rsoultin I love you and all but I need some extra time on you from the fact that I just coming off of 2 games of you being Mafia and might get some paranoia which I might have still on HTS because I not completely forgiven her for lynching me in Newbie LX. But you being very cheerful so far but idk if that is alignment indicative. Tubesock I hated the No Shoot idea but the logic behind it seems townie but I have yet to see him play as Mafia. Breshke is asking some questions and also reconsider his own thoughts and looks townie. Damdred you need to bleed town this game to me because the last time I played with you in Titanic you were Mafia yet you looked so townie in my eyes I just couldn't really play right Your Mom and Sepulchre are both smurfs and idk their other ids but I finding Sepulchre pretty townie on his large post and asking questions with some good explanations for why he thought of stuff like HTS making them intentionally bad or bait and his thing on OBS but I remember OBS having bad Day 1s as town so I would give OBS some extra time to see if he bleeds town. Your Mom haven't posted much either and got Null on him simply because he got very short questions and posts so far so I might need more posts from him to see where he lies for now.
vs
2.
LightningStrike wrote: Town: Eden: Played with before when he was Mafia and Town but we he seems to be town this game. Geript: Toneread says town he seems to ask some good questions. Snickers: Being extremely serious and giving his thoughts freely it kind of reminds me of a more serious me. Oatsmaster: Trying to get discussions going with pms and stuff but also he just being himself as town this game. Liancourt: He seems interested this game which is a good sign for him being town although I never him play as Mafia before. Null: Koshi: 1 post from him this game and it isn't really alignment indicative. sicklucker: I can't read him anymore on Day 1 after playing with him when he was Mafia and I was town. Also his Day 1 is bad. VisceraEyes: 1 post and wasn't alignment indicative need more posts from him.
LightningStrike wrote: I don't disagree for now on the Eden read. Rsoultin just seems to happy to be Mafia given she played as Mafia twice in a row into Town with me lol. I'm sorry I was Mafia in that game Damdred it just hurt when you called me Mafia but Geript carried me till he died and did a hilarious bus on Sandroba when sicklucker got lynched lol........
LightningStrike wrote: I agree with you on kita Rayn considering a lot has happened since his last post and not really commenting anything relevant except for the shot ideas. Also I remember Toad being mostly carefree early in Hammertime when I was a Cohost when he was Town and he coming across the same way so I incline to think he's town. Rayn you know how to read Sicklucker from my past experience with you and him together any thoughts on Sicklucker so far?
LightningStrike wrote: Sorry I was playing LoL game and HF's case on JAT is legit now that we seen HF flip Town and he made many good points on JAT and honestly the bully behavior that JAT displayed this game when people were voting is consistent with his behavior in Void mafia where he bullied people off him in the entire game as scum. Here's his filter from that game although he just was smurfing in that game that is why the name might be off His scum game in Void: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/475749-the-void-mafia?user=Wile E. Coyote
LightningStrike wrote: I'm back and sicklucker is fighting Breshke instead of the other cell mates o.o Also Geript being mad at Kita too and Tube fighting Geript this is interesting stuff going on here and personally I never played in a Cell Setup before so this interesting. Also Geript claimed he got Vig powers and claimed to had shot Sep but yet Sep survived so most likely Ninja in Sep if what Geript was saying is true. I will admit I guarded the Button since we don't know what the button does I thought it was safe play since it kind of like the presents in Carol where we gotten random Presents 1 from a Mass Murderer when unwraped instant kill the person 1 with a Cop power for the Night and 1 with a Vig Shot for the Night and since it prob pure rng what we get I really don't want to give Mafia extra powers or extra powers for ninjas either and weighed it in myself and decided to guard the button.
vs
2.
LightningStrike wrote: Sorry for not posting much and a update on reading Sandro's past games and will come up with stuff for tomorrow and sicklucker paranoia went through my head sorry and now seeing some light that you are more likely town than Mafia. Tomorrow I will present my findings on Sandro's past games as both alignments and present everything I have on him.
vs
3.
LightningStrike wrote: I was just wating for more posts to get some better reads that why I haven't posted much because there was really much for me to ready. I still waiting for alakaslam, Dicksmash McIroncock, and Meatpudding to post. My reads are atm the following Town: Oatsmaster, sicklucker, Damdred, kushm4sta, Trfel Null: Half the Sky, Breshke, Alakaslam Scum: Dicksmash McIroncock, Meatpudding. Dicksmash didn't post anything after his first post for the day and Meatpudding is either trolling us with the stuff he posted earlier or he scum but time will tell. Alakaslam at least gave a good explanation for his posts. Breshke gave a explanation on why he voted for sicklucker Half the Sky made some decent posts but it reads null in my eyes but I still kind of new to TL Mafia (2nd game in TL mafia).
vs
4.
LightningStrike wrote: Guys fyi I wont be here from about 11:45 am to at least 4:30 pm CST and I still think Sandroba is Mafia based on meta and Oats I getting him as Town as he playing like he did in Office, Void, and New Years Eve Party where he was a little lazy but he seemed a little motivated now to play the game although I wished he had played on Day 1 but he's here now.
5.
On March 08 2015 22:39 LightningStrike wrote: Just woke up and will answer your question. Tubesock I thinking some resemblances of her last game in Titanic now and Day 1 I had paranoia because before Titanic when I played her she was Mafia and rolled Mafia in another game too. The reason I seeing some resemblances from this game to Titanic because in that game she also was confused on setup stuff esp on the fact we had 2 Jail Keepers ( Nigella in Carol) and she having some confusions this game on setup stuff too. So a slight Town meta read on her.
Onegu since you confirmed town by the Cop Check I will do as you ask just promise me you shoot Geript okay?
HTS Happy Birthday Girl I assuming you going to party for a bit ##Unvote ##Vote: Onegu
LS's scum play is very very non confrontational and he generally gets away pretty well with just asking questions and making excuses for not having strong opinions or posting much. Tends to be very self-conscious in the thread when he rolls scum, which makes it very easy to recognize him
He knows me inside and out :o
But now you're self aware of it and it can't be used anymore
I was just making a point to KSC as to why I didn't think it was fabricated stuff from bugs that's all.
I see that he made a good case on you in a previous game. that wasn't what was fabricated. The content of the post i quoted was weak and fabricated. my mafia sensor went red alert.
Is the vote on Mig by him that making it go red alert or are you sure it's not yellow alert?
it's his bullshit defence of you, his weird fucking "oh be careful i've got my eye on you" crap and then his stupid fucking vote.
since then he read the thread backwards which is usually mafia and he asked some stupid question about how good nydus is on a scale...which is totally pointless and serves no purpose.
He is mafia and you should all vote him.
LOL
I don't know anyone in this game except Mig and a couple people from my previous game and the game I hosted, including LS and Onegu. I thought Nydus was a smurf so I wanted to know whether I can expect him to be good or not. Mafia is very much a game of identity; knowing who is good will allow me to bounce my reads off people. It's good now I know I won't be bouncing any reads off you given how horrendous your logic is.
For example, how can you even say which direction I read the thread? And even if I did read it backwards (which I didn't, because that's confusing as fuck) how is that at all alignment-indicative? And how is my post on LS a defense of him? He hasn't posted shit all yet and I actually found his use of the ":o" face a little suspicious, given how often he used it last game to defuse the tone of his posts.
On June 17 2015 08:03 Breshke wrote: WBG is trying to hunt for who the good players are again and it doesn't necessarily make him mafia it just makes him big headed
On June 17 2015 08:03 Breshke wrote: WBG is trying to hunt for who the good players are again and it doesn't necessarily make him mafia it just makes him big headed
How did you reach this conclusion?
I'm not going to speak for him, but given that he played with me in the previous game while you were busy being scum, and he actually uses his head (unlike you) you should consider thinking a bit more like him and a little less like you
wat. saying "I imagine if he rolled scum he'll be more careful this game" is not me saying he is town. It literally means what it says, if he rolled scum again he's going to be wary of me because I fucking nailed him last game.
You did read it backwards because you made a case and responded to someting LS said and then quoted the nydus post which came after
While it's nice that you are so confident, you should consider looking at perspective. I read that post because it was at the top of the latest page at the time. I was reading that page for new posts as I went down and when LS asked me about Onegu I went back and read from the beginning, my first proper read of the game. I didn't find anything super weird aside from a couple posts from Nydus (which is why I asked whether he is a smurf after looking at his profile) and then subsequently that post I marked as "wtf". It's pretty natural for me to have several tabs open with one at the latest page and a couple others either on filters or at the current point in the thread where I'm reading/rereading.
this is early d1 so bringing up points about my "logic" being bad and how you won't talk to me all game comes across poorly. Your posting has been scummy and i've highlighted it
I don't particularly care what you think, because you've so far demonstrated that your opinions are not useful. Therefore, I am going to ignore you, and if you want that to change you should probably consider working with me instead of flailing around and being dumb. What you think is alignment-indicative is not, and never will be, so unless your mentality changes I have nothing to gain from talking to you.
Also relax with this. GB coached me a bunch when I first started, I honestly don't understand why you are acting like him since he was scum last game so any reasoning you thought was bad from him doesn't mean shit because he was scum.
nah I'm not sure GB gleaned anything useful about anyone's play from the last game given that he was scum
if he is town this game he should probably consider that at the very least, given that it is his only exposure to my play
On June 17 2015 08:08 NydusHerMain wrote: I don't think LS is being that towny o.O. Am I crazy? I'm not saying he's not town but how do people have a "probs town" or "hard town" read on him already.
Because they know my meta? Check the database lpus Witchcraft III for my meta if you want any
seriously can you shut the fuck up already with this shit
you have just taken a shit in your hand and thrown whatever came out into the thread. I don't think your town and bringing up all this meta crap so early on is fucking irritating
Even if I'm right and your town keep the bm out of thread. Its not needed even if you are annoyed at this point.
I'll substantiate later, but I don't believe nhm or ls are capable of posting such as these as scum. Both are somewhat meta based reads.
Kel is just a maybe town.
I know I'm town obviously
I also think gb is a decent shot as town but don't tell him I said that
you can explain ls right now actually...what has he posted that makes him town? There's a lot of shit but nothing of real value.
On June 17 2015 08:03 Breshke wrote: WBG is trying to hunt for who the good players are again and it doesn't necessarily make him mafia it just makes him big headed
have you played with any of these players much?
what do you think of LS's posts this game so far?
Some but I wouldn't say I can judge who is good and who is bad nor would I really want to. I assume thats why you are asking me this question.
I really liked his opening. I find it hard thinking that LS could make that first post as scum idk it just feels really genuine. Also the rest of his posts don't really seem forced which I think is one of the biggest giveaways for scum LS and is something that would be hard to change.
On June 17 2015 08:08 wherebugsgo wrote:
On June 17 2015 08:06 GlowingBear wrote:
On June 17 2015 08:03 Breshke wrote: WBG is trying to hunt for who the good players are again and it doesn't necessarily make him mafia it just makes him big headed
How did you reach this conclusion?
I'm not going to speak for him, but given that he played with me in the previous game while you were busy being scum, and he actually uses his head (unlike you) you should consider thinking a bit more like him and a little less like you
Also relax with this. GB coached me a bunch when I first started, I honestly don't understand why you are acting like him since he was scum last game so any reasoning you thought was bad from him doesn't mean shit because he was scum.
On June 17 2015 08:27 rsoultin wrote: -rolls around the thread-
hihihihi
ls town but not town cause i'm bad about wrongly reading him town yay! i feel safer when others do it too, though! \o/
lol so angry rit
wbg eh...bresh may be right on the ego thing gettin' that too big for the thread feel from your posts, dude...
badumdum what else caught my eye in a scan worth commenting on? oh
i like damdy
tone, yay! \o/
oneg...can wait. not sure why he was the focus for so long lol >< i've got a semi-decent metaread i may break out later on him but it requires some actual posting xP
On June 17 2015 08:27 rsoultin wrote: -rolls around the thread-
hihihihi
ls town but not town cause i'm bad about wrongly reading him town yay! i feel safer when others do it too, though! \o/
lol so angry rit
wbg eh...bresh may be right on the ego thing gettin' that too big for the thread feel from your posts, dude...
badumdum what else caught my eye in a scan worth commenting on? oh
i like damdy
tone, yay! \o/
oneg...can wait. not sure why he was the focus for so long lol >< i've got a semi-decent metaread i may break out later on him but it requires some actual posting xP
what does that even mean
you know the part that came after the part you bolded? it explains it ^^ cool, yeah?
Also relax with this. GB coached me a bunch when I first started, I honestly don't understand why you are acting like him since he was scum last game so any reasoning you thought was bad from him doesn't mean shit because he was scum.
nah I'm not sure GB gleaned anything useful about anyone's play from the last game given that he was scum
if he is town this game he should probably consider that at the very least, given that it is his only exposure to my play
SO you think GB should try meta read you off of one game?
I would expect him to at least consider my last game, yes. Your question comes off as really leading though, there's not some sort of binary extreme between being incapable of reading someone and having to autoread them after one game. Not all players fall into that, although some tend to be very easily distinguishable. But I'm probably biased given that I think I am pretty easy to read as town.
On June 17 2015 08:27 rsoultin wrote: -rolls around the thread-
hihihihi
ls town but not town cause i'm bad about wrongly reading him town yay! i feel safer when others do it too, though! \o/
lol so angry rit
wbg eh...bresh may be right on the ego thing gettin' that too big for the thread feel from your posts, dude...
badumdum what else caught my eye in a scan worth commenting on? oh
i like damdy
tone, yay! \o/
oneg...can wait. not sure why he was the focus for so long lol >< i've got a semi-decent metaread i may break out later on him but it requires some actual posting xP
what does that even mean
you know the part that came after the part you bolded? it explains it ^^ cool, yeah?
so do you actually think he is town or not?
oh this is gonna be fun ^^ let me break it down
i think ls is town the "not town" part is my way of saying take it with a grain of salt BECAUSE (and this is the best part cause i love explaining myself five times) i have a tendency to townread him even when he's scum HOWEVER others who are better at reading him (i.e. damdy) also say town
so i'm more comfortable with the read than i otherwise would be
^ the best part is all of that was in a much more concise package originally ^^
Also relax with this. GB coached me a bunch when I first started, I honestly don't understand why you are acting like him since he was scum last game so any reasoning you thought was bad from him doesn't mean shit because he was scum.
nah I'm not sure GB gleaned anything useful about anyone's play from the last game given that he was scum
if he is town this game he should probably consider that at the very least, given that it is his only exposure to my play
SO you think GB should try meta read you off of one game?
I would expect him to at least consider my last game, yes. Your question comes off as really leading though, there's not some sort of binary extreme between being incapable of reading someone and having to autoread them after one game. Not all players fall into that, although some tend to be very easily distinguishable. But I'm probably biased given that I think I am pretty easy to read as town.
Yeah it was leading because I have a problem with how you consider yourself. I know you say you are a much better scum player than town player right? Yet you also think you are an easy townread which doesn't make sense if your scum play is better than your town play. Does it not mean people should be wary of you even if they are reading you town.
I think I'm a better scum player than town but I would rate my town play like 2 on a scale of 1 to 10 and my scum play as a 5
I think it's fairly obvious when I am town because I personally put in far more effort when I am town. For example in the last game I must've read at least half a dozen of LS's games over the space of day 1 just to make sense of his posts. It's actually a point of frustration for me when the only serious lynches I've had to deal with were all as town because normally I take almost no suspicion at all when I am scum. I think I've been lynched twice as scum and both times I felt it was not really my fault and more a fault of my lazy teammates.
Also people have said what you have said before and I welcome people to scrutinize my reads and my play. It'll help me get better at least, but I find it odd that most people call me town when I am scum and scum when I am town.
On June 17 2015 08:27 rsoultin wrote: -rolls around the thread-
hihihihi
ls town but not town cause i'm bad about wrongly reading him town yay! i feel safer when others do it too, though! \o/
lol so angry rit
wbg eh...bresh may be right on the ego thing gettin' that too big for the thread feel from your posts, dude...
badumdum what else caught my eye in a scan worth commenting on? oh
i like damdy
tone, yay! \o/
oneg...can wait. not sure why he was the focus for so long lol >< i've got a semi-decent metaread i may break out later on him but it requires some actual posting xP
what does that even mean
you know the part that came after the part you bolded? it explains it ^^ cool, yeah?
so do you actually think he is town or not?
oh this is gonna be fun ^^ let me break it down
i think ls is town the "not town" part is my way of saying take it with a grain of salt BECAUSE (and this is the best part cause i love explaining myself five times) i have a tendency to townread him even when he's scum HOWEVER others who are better at reading him (i.e. damdy) also say town
so i'm more comfortable with the read than i otherwise would be
^ the best part is all of that was in a much more concise package originally ^^
okay.
can you tell me what you like about Dam?
he's my pretty hubby ^^ with the sexy accent
lol ><
actually, it's tonal. i don't generally qualify my tonereads cause they mean nothing to anyone but me anyway. best simple way to describe it to the uninitiated is fluidity...he's one stiff mofo as scum ^^
umm what
why would your reasoning for calling Damdred town only matter to you? You need to qualify the read, otherwise it's pretty much a useless read. It is useful for me, for example, to be able to understand your reasoning so I can determine your alignment
On June 17 2015 08:27 rsoultin wrote: -rolls around the thread-
hihihihi
ls town but not town cause i'm bad about wrongly reading him town yay! i feel safer when others do it too, though! \o/
lol so angry rit
wbg eh...bresh may be right on the ego thing gettin' that too big for the thread feel from your posts, dude...
badumdum what else caught my eye in a scan worth commenting on? oh
i like damdy
tone, yay! \o/
oneg...can wait. not sure why he was the focus for so long lol >< i've got a semi-decent metaread i may break out later on him but it requires some actual posting xP
what does that even mean
you know the part that came after the part you bolded? it explains it ^^ cool, yeah?
so do you actually think he is town or not?
oh this is gonna be fun ^^ let me break it down
i think ls is town the "not town" part is my way of saying take it with a grain of salt BECAUSE (and this is the best part cause i love explaining myself five times) i have a tendency to townread him even when he's scum HOWEVER others who are better at reading him (i.e. damdy) also say town
so i'm more comfortable with the read than i otherwise would be
^ the best part is all of that was in a much more concise package originally ^^
okay.
can you tell me what you like about Dam?
he's my pretty hubby ^^ with the sexy accent
lol ><
actually, it's tonal. i don't generally qualify my tonereads cause they mean nothing to anyone but me anyway. best simple way to describe it to the uninitiated is fluidity...he's one stiff mofo as scum ^^
umm what
why would your reasoning for calling Damdred town only matter to you? You need to qualify the read, otherwise it's pretty much a useless read. It is useful for me, for example, to be able to understand your reasoning so I can determine your alignment
ahem hem hem
read again pretty
no thanks. I don't put weight in tone reads, I expect you to have some justification for them.
you know the part that came after the part you bolded? it explains it ^^ cool, yeah?
so do you actually think he is town or not?
oh this is gonna be fun ^^ let me break it down
i think ls is town the "not town" part is my way of saying take it with a grain of salt BECAUSE (and this is the best part cause i love explaining myself five times) i have a tendency to townread him even when he's scum HOWEVER others who are better at reading him (i.e. damdy) also say town
so i'm more comfortable with the read than i otherwise would be
^ the best part is all of that was in a much more concise package originally ^^
okay.
can you tell me what you like about Dam?
he's my pretty hubby ^^ with the sexy accent
lol ><
actually, it's tonal. i don't generally qualify my tonereads cause they mean nothing to anyone but me anyway. best simple way to describe it to the uninitiated is fluidity...he's one stiff mofo as scum ^^
umm what
why would your reasoning for calling Damdred town only matter to you? You need to qualify the read, otherwise it's pretty much a useless read. It is useful for me, for example, to be able to understand your reasoning so I can determine your alignment
ahem hem hem
read again pretty
no thanks. I don't put weight in tone reads, I expect you to have some justification for them.
lol wow
maybe if i just c/p the one little section it will stave off the reading comprehension rant:
"best simple way to describe it to the uninitiated is fluidity...he's one stiff mofo as scum ^^"
it's how i read him early. i tend to be right. if you don't like it, too bad
-shoos-
it's not a reading comprehension issue when you literally don't have justification.
thanks for pointing me in the right direction, though.
i think ls is town the "not town" part is my way of saying take it with a grain of salt BECAUSE (and this is the best part cause i love explaining myself five times) i have a tendency to townread him even when he's scum HOWEVER others who are better at reading him (i.e. damdy) also say town
so i'm more comfortable with the read than i otherwise would be
^ the best part is all of that was in a much more concise package originally ^^
okay.
can you tell me what you like about Dam?
he's my pretty hubby ^^ with the sexy accent
lol ><
actually, it's tonal. i don't generally qualify my tonereads cause they mean nothing to anyone but me anyway. best simple way to describe it to the uninitiated is fluidity...he's one stiff mofo as scum ^^
umm what
why would your reasoning for calling Damdred town only matter to you? You need to qualify the read, otherwise it's pretty much a useless read. It is useful for me, for example, to be able to understand your reasoning so I can determine your alignment
ahem hem hem
read again pretty
no thanks. I don't put weight in tone reads, I expect you to have some justification for them.
lol wow
maybe if i just c/p the one little section it will stave off the reading comprehension rant:
"best simple way to describe it to the uninitiated is fluidity...he's one stiff mofo as scum ^^"
it's how i read him early. i tend to be right. if you don't like it, too bad
-shoos-
it's not a reading comprehension issue when you literally don't have justification.
thanks for pointing me in the right direction, though.
##unvote ##vote rsoultin
<3
how cute! it thinks it can lynch me
(if you think that's going to prompt me to make shit up to satisfy you, think again lovely)
is this supposed to be a fake strong response?
I expect you to have reasons for reads. When I ask you for a reason and you literally quote a post of yourself instead of explaining I think there's a great chance you are bullshitting.
So it's okay, you don't need to make MORE shit up, you already made up enough for me to call you scum.
actually, it's tonal. i don't generally qualify my tonereads cause they mean nothing to anyone but me anyway. best simple way to describe it to the uninitiated is fluidity...he's one stiff mofo as scum ^^
umm what
why would your reasoning for calling Damdred town only matter to you? You need to qualify the read, otherwise it's pretty much a useless read. It is useful for me, for example, to be able to understand your reasoning so I can determine your alignment
ahem hem hem
read again pretty
no thanks. I don't put weight in tone reads, I expect you to have some justification for them.
lol wow
maybe if i just c/p the one little section it will stave off the reading comprehension rant:
"best simple way to describe it to the uninitiated is fluidity...he's one stiff mofo as scum ^^"
it's how i read him early. i tend to be right. if you don't like it, too bad
-shoos-
it's not a reading comprehension issue when you literally don't have justification.
thanks for pointing me in the right direction, though.
##unvote ##vote rsoultin
<3
how cute! it thinks it can lynch me
(if you think that's going to prompt me to make shit up to satisfy you, think again lovely)
is this supposed to be a fake strong response?
I expect you to have reasons for reads. When I ask you for a reason and you literally quote a post of yourself instead of explaining I think there's a great chance you are bullshitting.
So it's okay, you don't need to make MORE shit up, you already made up enough for me to call you scum.
-yawns-
didn't someone say you were supposed to be good?
there's a world of difference between no reasoning and no reasoning you approve of
Qualifying something as a tone read isn't a reason. It's a cop out.
For anyone reading this, take a look at the following. Stuff like this
s town but not town cause i'm bad about wrongly reading him town yay! i feel safer when others do it too, though! \o/
Is a great example of responsibility deflection. This is what scum do when they want to give the appearance of having reads but do not want to entrench themselves in any one position because they don't want to get held accountable for them. There's no reason rsoultin here needs to make any sort of statement on LS, but even so why qualify it like this?
Let's say rsoultin actually thinks LS is town. This is not actually a reason to believe LS is town. All she is saying is that I think he's town now because other people think he's town, and providing a reason for not having a reason. "I think he's town but don't hold me to that cause I'm bad at reading him! hahaa but it's okay cause other people think he's town, right?"
The last part is a great way for rsoultin to get further thread sentiment about LS. It doesn't make sense from a town perspective to say something like this because townies will make the read for themselves and will only qualify what other people say when necessary. Here it just feels forced.
o.0 like...if we're taking a basic 3rd grade reading test you mean?
(he's beating out wbg though lol...
"you have no justification for your read" "it's right there" "no it's not" "here it is" "i think you're scum cause you quoted it" "well aren't you the sharpest tool in the shed"
for more paraphrases from rsoul, leave a message after the beep )
and this
Yes, let's continue paraphrasing useless shit in an attempt to appear more townie. Repeating yourself by paraphrase is probably the worst way I've ever seen someone try to fake providing reads. You're digging yourself deeper every time you post.
why would your reasoning for calling Damdred town only matter to you? You need to qualify the read, otherwise it's pretty much a useless read. It is useful for me, for example, to be able to understand your reasoning so I can determine your alignment
ahem hem hem
read again pretty
no thanks. I don't put weight in tone reads, I expect you to have some justification for them.
lol wow
maybe if i just c/p the one little section it will stave off the reading comprehension rant:
"best simple way to describe it to the uninitiated is fluidity...he's one stiff mofo as scum ^^"
it's how i read him early. i tend to be right. if you don't like it, too bad
-shoos-
it's not a reading comprehension issue when you literally don't have justification.
thanks for pointing me in the right direction, though.
##unvote ##vote rsoultin
<3
how cute! it thinks it can lynch me
(if you think that's going to prompt me to make shit up to satisfy you, think again lovely)
is this supposed to be a fake strong response?
I expect you to have reasons for reads. When I ask you for a reason and you literally quote a post of yourself instead of explaining I think there's a great chance you are bullshitting.
So it's okay, you don't need to make MORE shit up, you already made up enough for me to call you scum.
-yawns-
didn't someone say you were supposed to be good?
there's a world of difference between no reasoning and no reasoning you approve of
Qualifying something as a tone read isn't a reason. It's a cop out.
For anyone reading this, take a look at the following. Stuff like this
s town but not town cause i'm bad about wrongly reading him town yay! i feel safer when others do it too, though! \o/
Is a great example of responsibility deflection. This is what scum do when they want to give the appearance of having reads but do not want to entrench themselves in any one position because they don't want to get held accountable for them. There's no reason rsoultin here needs to make any sort of statement on LS, but even so why qualify it like this?
Let's say rsoultin actually thinks LS is town. This is not actually a reason to believe LS is town. All she is saying is that I think he's town now because other people think he's town, and providing a reason for not having a reason. "I think he's town but don't hold me to that cause I'm bad at reading him! hahaa but it's okay cause other people think he's town, right?"
The last part is a great way for rsoultin to get further thread sentiment about LS. It doesn't make sense from a town perspective to say something like this because townies will make the read for themselves and will only qualify what other people say when necessary. Here it just feels forced.
o.0 like...if we're taking a basic 3rd grade reading test you mean?
(he's beating out wbg though lol...
"you have no justification for your read" "it's right there" "no it's not" "here it is" "i think you're scum cause you quoted it" "well aren't you the sharpest tool in the shed"
for more paraphrases from rsoul, leave a message after the beep )
and this
Yes, let's continue paraphrasing useless shit in an attempt to appear more townie. Repeating yourself by paraphrase is probably the worst way I've ever seen someone try to fake providing reads. You're digging yourself deeper every time you post.
aw cutie, you're not reading me at all if you think i don't have reads -amused-
narratives bore me. when you're done writing fairytales, let me know
when you're done copping out I might consider unvoting you.
however, you can just ask LS how hard I will tunnel you to death. And right now I can guarantee you will flip red once I'm done.
On June 17 2015 11:08 Breshke wrote: WBG let me explain this for you.
Rsoul used to think she had a good read on LS because she caught him scum in her first game but then basically townread him almost every game after that. She was obviously wrong eventually and realized her read was either wrong or LS changed his play. She still gets those frequent townreads on LS so when she was reading LS town this game she was hesitant about it but then because many others were also reading him town she felt less bad about it.
Now explain if the above thing is scummy or not because i ceebs you and rsoul going at it because she explained it in an rsoul way and you reacted to it in a bugs way
if this is common knowledge I can't see how it is at all alignment indicative.
We can even ignore the LS stuff, I asked her on more than one occasion for an elucidation of a read and I got back peanuts.
People who can't provide justifications are not townies.
no thanks. I don't put weight in tone reads, I expect you to have some justification for them.
lol wow
maybe if i just c/p the one little section it will stave off the reading comprehension rant:
"best simple way to describe it to the uninitiated is fluidity...he's one stiff mofo as scum ^^"
it's how i read him early. i tend to be right. if you don't like it, too bad
-shoos-
it's not a reading comprehension issue when you literally don't have justification.
thanks for pointing me in the right direction, though.
##unvote ##vote rsoultin
<3
how cute! it thinks it can lynch me
(if you think that's going to prompt me to make shit up to satisfy you, think again lovely)
is this supposed to be a fake strong response?
I expect you to have reasons for reads. When I ask you for a reason and you literally quote a post of yourself instead of explaining I think there's a great chance you are bullshitting.
So it's okay, you don't need to make MORE shit up, you already made up enough for me to call you scum.
-yawns-
didn't someone say you were supposed to be good?
there's a world of difference between no reasoning and no reasoning you approve of
Qualifying something as a tone read isn't a reason. It's a cop out.
For anyone reading this, take a look at the following. Stuff like this
s town but not town cause i'm bad about wrongly reading him town yay! i feel safer when others do it too, though! \o/
Is a great example of responsibility deflection. This is what scum do when they want to give the appearance of having reads but do not want to entrench themselves in any one position because they don't want to get held accountable for them. There's no reason rsoultin here needs to make any sort of statement on LS, but even so why qualify it like this?
Let's say rsoultin actually thinks LS is town. This is not actually a reason to believe LS is town. All she is saying is that I think he's town now because other people think he's town, and providing a reason for not having a reason. "I think he's town but don't hold me to that cause I'm bad at reading him! hahaa but it's okay cause other people think he's town, right?"
The last part is a great way for rsoultin to get further thread sentiment about LS. It doesn't make sense from a town perspective to say something like this because townies will make the read for themselves and will only qualify what other people say when necessary. Here it just feels forced.
o.0 like...if we're taking a basic 3rd grade reading test you mean?
(he's beating out wbg though lol...
"you have no justification for your read" "it's right there" "no it's not" "here it is" "i think you're scum cause you quoted it" "well aren't you the sharpest tool in the shed"
for more paraphrases from rsoul, leave a message after the beep )
and this
Yes, let's continue paraphrasing useless shit in an attempt to appear more townie. Repeating yourself by paraphrase is probably the worst way I've ever seen someone try to fake providing reads. You're digging yourself deeper every time you post.
aw cutie, you're not reading me at all if you think i don't have reads -amused-
narratives bore me. when you're done writing fairytales, let me know
when you're done copping out I might consider unvoting you.
however, you can just ask LS how hard I will tunnel you to death. And right now I can guarantee you will flip red once I'm done.
Can you not tunnel for a minute and give thoughts on other players?
nope
give me a good reason we shouldn't lynch rsoultin. You could also comment on the post I just made on her motivations as well. Do you think she has a town motivation this game? What makes you think yes/no?
it's not a reading comprehension issue when you literally don't have justification.
thanks for pointing me in the right direction, though.
##unvote ##vote rsoultin
<3
how cute! it thinks it can lynch me
(if you think that's going to prompt me to make shit up to satisfy you, think again lovely)
is this supposed to be a fake strong response?
I expect you to have reasons for reads. When I ask you for a reason and you literally quote a post of yourself instead of explaining I think there's a great chance you are bullshitting.
So it's okay, you don't need to make MORE shit up, you already made up enough for me to call you scum.
-yawns-
didn't someone say you were supposed to be good?
there's a world of difference between no reasoning and no reasoning you approve of
Qualifying something as a tone read isn't a reason. It's a cop out.
For anyone reading this, take a look at the following. Stuff like this
s town but not town cause i'm bad about wrongly reading him town yay! i feel safer when others do it too, though! \o/
Is a great example of responsibility deflection. This is what scum do when they want to give the appearance of having reads but do not want to entrench themselves in any one position because they don't want to get held accountable for them. There's no reason rsoultin here needs to make any sort of statement on LS, but even so why qualify it like this?
Let's say rsoultin actually thinks LS is town. This is not actually a reason to believe LS is town. All she is saying is that I think he's town now because other people think he's town, and providing a reason for not having a reason. "I think he's town but don't hold me to that cause I'm bad at reading him! hahaa but it's okay cause other people think he's town, right?"
The last part is a great way for rsoultin to get further thread sentiment about LS. It doesn't make sense from a town perspective to say something like this because townies will make the read for themselves and will only qualify what other people say when necessary. Here it just feels forced.
o.0 like...if we're taking a basic 3rd grade reading test you mean?
(he's beating out wbg though lol...
"you have no justification for your read" "it's right there" "no it's not" "here it is" "i think you're scum cause you quoted it" "well aren't you the sharpest tool in the shed"
for more paraphrases from rsoul, leave a message after the beep )
and this
Yes, let's continue paraphrasing useless shit in an attempt to appear more townie. Repeating yourself by paraphrase is probably the worst way I've ever seen someone try to fake providing reads. You're digging yourself deeper every time you post.
aw cutie, you're not reading me at all if you think i don't have reads -amused-
narratives bore me. when you're done writing fairytales, let me know
when you're done copping out I might consider unvoting you.
however, you can just ask LS how hard I will tunnel you to death. And right now I can guarantee you will flip red once I'm done.
Can you not tunnel for a minute and give thoughts on other players?
nope
give me a good reason we shouldn't lynch rsoultin. You could also comment on the post I just made on her motivations as well. Do you think she has a town motivation this game? What makes you think yes/no?
I usually ignore her until LYLO. If she is alive we just vote her.
I'm not really putting too much thought on her right now. Time will tell.
bravo, what an uplifting strategy. Let's ignore a player until literally the last possible moment, when if you are wrong you fucking lose the game.
it's not a reading comprehension issue when you literally don't have justification.
thanks for pointing me in the right direction, though.
##unvote ##vote rsoultin
<3
how cute! it thinks it can lynch me
(if you think that's going to prompt me to make shit up to satisfy you, think again lovely)
is this supposed to be a fake strong response?
I expect you to have reasons for reads. When I ask you for a reason and you literally quote a post of yourself instead of explaining I think there's a great chance you are bullshitting.
So it's okay, you don't need to make MORE shit up, you already made up enough for me to call you scum.
-yawns-
didn't someone say you were supposed to be good?
there's a world of difference between no reasoning and no reasoning you approve of
Qualifying something as a tone read isn't a reason. It's a cop out.
For anyone reading this, take a look at the following. Stuff like this
s town but not town cause i'm bad about wrongly reading him town yay! i feel safer when others do it too, though! \o/
Is a great example of responsibility deflection. This is what scum do when they want to give the appearance of having reads but do not want to entrench themselves in any one position because they don't want to get held accountable for them. There's no reason rsoultin here needs to make any sort of statement on LS, but even so why qualify it like this?
Let's say rsoultin actually thinks LS is town. This is not actually a reason to believe LS is town. All she is saying is that I think he's town now because other people think he's town, and providing a reason for not having a reason. "I think he's town but don't hold me to that cause I'm bad at reading him! hahaa but it's okay cause other people think he's town, right?"
The last part is a great way for rsoultin to get further thread sentiment about LS. It doesn't make sense from a town perspective to say something like this because townies will make the read for themselves and will only qualify what other people say when necessary. Here it just feels forced.
o.0 like...if we're taking a basic 3rd grade reading test you mean?
(he's beating out wbg though lol...
"you have no justification for your read" "it's right there" "no it's not" "here it is" "i think you're scum cause you quoted it" "well aren't you the sharpest tool in the shed"
for more paraphrases from rsoul, leave a message after the beep )
and this
Yes, let's continue paraphrasing useless shit in an attempt to appear more townie. Repeating yourself by paraphrase is probably the worst way I've ever seen someone try to fake providing reads. You're digging yourself deeper every time you post.
aw cutie, you're not reading me at all if you think i don't have reads -amused-
narratives bore me. when you're done writing fairytales, let me know
when you're done copping out I might consider unvoting you.
however, you can just ask LS how hard I will tunnel you to death. And right now I can guarantee you will flip red once I'm done.
Can you not tunnel for a minute and give thoughts on other players?
nope
give me a good reason we shouldn't lynch rsoultin. You could also comment on the post I just made on her motivations as well. Do you think she has a town motivation this game? What makes you think yes/no?
respeeeeectfully instead of calling you what i normally would
do you have the faintest clue who you're even dealing with? do you know how i post? have you read all of my filter/posts? i highly doubt it. you seem intelligent enough to actually understand the meaning behind words, despite your behavior thus far
and once you realize how blindingly wrong you are, kindly comment on someone who actually has a chance in hell of being scum ^^ thanks
you.
I don't need to go further. You don't qualify any of your posts with reasons, so why should I bother? I have read your entire filter despite your pathetic attempts to paint me as not reading. Here's a hint: when you try to fake being angry at someone for not reading, perhaps you should point out exactly what they missed. Too bad there was nothing to miss because my posts were literal quotes of yours. How could I have missed something when there wasn't anything to miss?
It's like literally the dumbest cop out ever. I point out how you have not qualified your reads with reasons and the response is literally "nuh uh you're not reading here's my reason" with a quote or paraphrase of the thing I pointed out in the first place. It's like you want us to go in circles instead of progressing anywhere--I wonder which side wants to do that, hmm?
I expect you to have reasons for reads. When I ask you for a reason and you literally quote a post of yourself instead of explaining I think there's a great chance you are bullshitting.
So it's okay, you don't need to make MORE shit up, you already made up enough for me to call you scum.
-yawns-
didn't someone say you were supposed to be good?
there's a world of difference between no reasoning and no reasoning you approve of
Qualifying something as a tone read isn't a reason. It's a cop out.
For anyone reading this, take a look at the following. Stuff like this
s town but not town cause i'm bad about wrongly reading him town yay! i feel safer when others do it too, though! \o/
Is a great example of responsibility deflection. This is what scum do when they want to give the appearance of having reads but do not want to entrench themselves in any one position because they don't want to get held accountable for them. There's no reason rsoultin here needs to make any sort of statement on LS, but even so why qualify it like this?
Let's say rsoultin actually thinks LS is town. This is not actually a reason to believe LS is town. All she is saying is that I think he's town now because other people think he's town, and providing a reason for not having a reason. "I think he's town but don't hold me to that cause I'm bad at reading him! hahaa but it's okay cause other people think he's town, right?"
The last part is a great way for rsoultin to get further thread sentiment about LS. It doesn't make sense from a town perspective to say something like this because townies will make the read for themselves and will only qualify what other people say when necessary. Here it just feels forced.
o.0 like...if we're taking a basic 3rd grade reading test you mean?
(he's beating out wbg though lol...
"you have no justification for your read" "it's right there" "no it's not" "here it is" "i think you're scum cause you quoted it" "well aren't you the sharpest tool in the shed"
for more paraphrases from rsoul, leave a message after the beep )
and this
Yes, let's continue paraphrasing useless shit in an attempt to appear more townie. Repeating yourself by paraphrase is probably the worst way I've ever seen someone try to fake providing reads. You're digging yourself deeper every time you post.
aw cutie, you're not reading me at all if you think i don't have reads -amused-
narratives bore me. when you're done writing fairytales, let me know
when you're done copping out I might consider unvoting you.
however, you can just ask LS how hard I will tunnel you to death. And right now I can guarantee you will flip red once I'm done.
Can you not tunnel for a minute and give thoughts on other players?
nope
give me a good reason we shouldn't lynch rsoultin. You could also comment on the post I just made on her motivations as well. Do you think she has a town motivation this game? What makes you think yes/no?
respeeeeectfully instead of calling you what i normally would
do you have the faintest clue who you're even dealing with? do you know how i post? have you read all of my filter/posts? i highly doubt it. you seem intelligent enough to actually understand the meaning behind words, despite your behavior thus far
and once you realize how blindingly wrong you are, kindly comment on someone who actually has a chance in hell of being scum ^^ thanks
you.
I don't need to go further. You don't qualify any of your posts with reasons, so why should I bother? I have read your entire filter despite your pathetic attempts to paint me as not reading. Here's a hint: when you try to fake being angry at someone for not reading, perhaps you should point out exactly what they missed. Too bad there was nothing to miss because my posts were literal quotes of yours. How could I have missed something when there wasn't anything to miss?
It's like literally the dumbest cop out ever. I point out how you have not qualified your reads with reasons and the response is literally "nuh uh you're not reading here's my reason" with a quote or paraphrase of the thing I pointed out in the first place. It's like you want us to go in circles instead of progressing anywhere--I wonder which side wants to do that, hmm?
can you tell me how my reason was not a reason, wbg? i'm on the edge of my seat
a "toneread" is not a reason.
it's like saying "I think he is town because he talks like town".
I expect you to have reasons for reads. When I ask you for a reason and you literally quote a post of yourself instead of explaining I think there's a great chance you are bullshitting.
So it's okay, you don't need to make MORE shit up, you already made up enough for me to call you scum.
-yawns-
didn't someone say you were supposed to be good?
there's a world of difference between no reasoning and no reasoning you approve of
Qualifying something as a tone read isn't a reason. It's a cop out.
For anyone reading this, take a look at the following. Stuff like this
s town but not town cause i'm bad about wrongly reading him town yay! i feel safer when others do it too, though! \o/
Is a great example of responsibility deflection. This is what scum do when they want to give the appearance of having reads but do not want to entrench themselves in any one position because they don't want to get held accountable for them. There's no reason rsoultin here needs to make any sort of statement on LS, but even so why qualify it like this?
Let's say rsoultin actually thinks LS is town. This is not actually a reason to believe LS is town. All she is saying is that I think he's town now because other people think he's town, and providing a reason for not having a reason. "I think he's town but don't hold me to that cause I'm bad at reading him! hahaa but it's okay cause other people think he's town, right?"
The last part is a great way for rsoultin to get further thread sentiment about LS. It doesn't make sense from a town perspective to say something like this because townies will make the read for themselves and will only qualify what other people say when necessary. Here it just feels forced.
o.0 like...if we're taking a basic 3rd grade reading test you mean?
(he's beating out wbg though lol...
"you have no justification for your read" "it's right there" "no it's not" "here it is" "i think you're scum cause you quoted it" "well aren't you the sharpest tool in the shed"
for more paraphrases from rsoul, leave a message after the beep )
and this
Yes, let's continue paraphrasing useless shit in an attempt to appear more townie. Repeating yourself by paraphrase is probably the worst way I've ever seen someone try to fake providing reads. You're digging yourself deeper every time you post.
aw cutie, you're not reading me at all if you think i don't have reads -amused-
narratives bore me. when you're done writing fairytales, let me know
when you're done copping out I might consider unvoting you.
however, you can just ask LS how hard I will tunnel you to death. And right now I can guarantee you will flip red once I'm done.
Can you not tunnel for a minute and give thoughts on other players?
nope
give me a good reason we shouldn't lynch rsoultin. You could also comment on the post I just made on her motivations as well. Do you think she has a town motivation this game? What makes you think yes/no?
I usually ignore her until LYLO. If she is alive we just vote her.
I'm not really putting too much thought on her right now. Time will tell.
bravo, what an uplifting strategy. Let's ignore a player until literally the last possible moment, when if you are wrong you fucking lose the game.
Bugs pls you said you were going to ignore half the players last game.
Tell me about damdreds alignment.
I ignored them because they clearly had unimportant/bad opinions while painting themselves to me as town. In this game I would right now classify GB and Kelsier in that same group, although as in last game GB had stupid opinions and that was because he was scum so I'm a little hesitant to have any sort of positive read on GB at the moment. I think we need some more time on him to classify him as scum-dumb or town-dumb.
As for Damdred there are a few things that I noticed that were a little strange, e.g. this:
On June 17 2015 08:08 NydusHerMain wrote: I don't think LS is being that towny o.O. Am I crazy? I'm not saying he's not town but how do people have a "probs town" or "hard town" read on him already.
Because they know my meta? Check the database lpus Witchcraft III for my meta if you want any
seriously can you shut the fuck up already with this shit
you have just taken a shit in your hand and thrown whatever came out into the thread. I don't think your town and bringing up all this meta crap so early on is fucking irritating
Even if I'm right and your town keep the bm out of thread. Its not needed even if you are annoyed at this point.
I'll substantiate later, but I don't believe nhm or ls are capable of posting such as these as scum. Both are somewhat meta based reads.
Kel is just a maybe town.
I know I'm town obviously
I also think gb is a decent shot as town but don't tell him I said that
On June 17 2015 08:51 Damdred wrote: Town: Ls Nhm Rsoul Damdred Ritoky
Town leans Kel Gb Breske
This is a good start. Keep it coming boys and girls
On June 17 2015 08:08 NydusHerMain wrote: I don't think LS is being that towny o.O. Am I crazy? I'm not saying he's not town but how do people have a "probs town" or "hard town" read on him already.
Because they know my meta? Check the database lpus Witchcraft III for my meta if you want any
seriously can you shut the fuck up already with this shit
you have just taken a shit in your hand and thrown whatever came out into the thread. I don't think your town and bringing up all this meta crap so early on is fucking irritating
Even if I'm right and your town keep the bm out of thread. Its not needed even if you are annoyed at this point.
I'll substantiate later, but I don't believe nhm or ls are capable of posting such as these as scum. Both are somewhat meta based reads.
Kel is just a maybe town.
I know I'm town obviously
I also think gb is a decent shot as town but don't tell him I said that
you can explain ls right now actually...what has he posted that makes him town? There's a lot of shit but nothing of real value.
There are two types of people that play mafia
1. Players who are capable of changing meta and care 2. Players who only play for one alignment and either refuse or can't change meta
LS belongs in group 2, he's already done several of his town tells at this point. Digging up old,meta cases on him to show how people know him. He's sort of jokey, and he's willing to get into,confrontations to a degree.
On June 17 2015 09:24 NydusHerMain wrote: Damdred have you gave any reasoning for any of your reads yet other than meta? You did a hell of a lot of it last game.
Actually meta is a huge part of my game in the early goings as well as tone etc.,
Rsoultin is because she's my waifu that's acting like a pita. I've answered about ls I believe Kel is his attitude and his wanting to dig into people. Gb because of the wanting to give reads and get people involved. Rit is pure meta and I'd rather never explain You are meta+content at this point compared to last game.
but right now I don't put much weight into them because for the most part the rest of his posts have been fine. In particular his responses to Shockey appeared fairly genuine and his thought process makes sense from a town perspective, in particular his reactions to the LS post on me and his reaction to certain other things, e.g. this one here:
On June 17 2015 09:39 Damdred wrote: Honestly Idk why people keep taking issues I have been town hunting and then lynching into Poe. Its quite effective, obviously if I haven't given a read on someone such as bugs who I don't have any familiarity with or Fred because lack of posts. Its they are null.
Getting conversation stimulated is important
Putting it out there that your strategy is a process of elimination strategy is not something that mafia would likely do because it attracts a lot of attention. When you use PoE (which I personally like myself to some degree) you end up having to do a lot of defending of your townreads. Now of course we haven't gotten to a stage of the game yet where this necessarily has mattered a ton, but simply the fact that he put himself out there as using PoE means that we can use a higher level of scrutiny to examine his reads and his reasonings. He's going to have to be more active with more players because a PoE approach requires you to identify the alignments of a lot more players than just "normal" scumhunting, where you simply pick out the "scummiest" people and townreads don't necessarily matter.
Anyway he's pretty far away from lynch consideration for me and in my sheet I have him at about 70% town.
On June 17 2015 11:26 GlowingBear wrote: Like, Bugs, I want first to actually form a read on you. And for that I need to know how you're approaching the game.
Opinions on other players, for example, help me with that.
I wouldn't lynch her day one solely for activity. So talking about her NOW is a waste of time.
And talking ABOUT you is also. But talking WITH YOU is important to me. I think we have much better targets.
This fight between you two actually feels very weird.
So let me get this straight. You want me to provide you reasons, and opinions. Which I certainly will, but right now I'm just not that interested in throwing around reads on people because it's a bit too early. This all is fine.
You, however, don't find it odd that rsoultin is NOT doing exactly what you want me to do? Why the double standard here? If I am to take what you said at face value you seem to want to ignore rsoultin, but why? What difference does it make waiting it out? People said the same shit about LS last game and he flipped scum day 1. She hasn't contributed anything and in her responses to me and ritoky it certainly doesn't seem like she is going to contribute anything any time soon. That's not indicative of her being town and to me that makes her the best lynch right now.
Qualifying something as a tone read isn't a reason. It's a cop out.
For anyone reading this, take a look at the following. Stuff like this
[quote]
Is a great example of responsibility deflection. This is what scum do when they want to give the appearance of having reads but do not want to entrench themselves in any one position because they don't want to get held accountable for them. There's no reason rsoultin here needs to make any sort of statement on LS, but even so why qualify it like this?
Let's say rsoultin actually thinks LS is town. This is not actually a reason to believe LS is town. All she is saying is that I think he's town now because other people think he's town, and providing a reason for not having a reason. "I think he's town but don't hold me to that cause I'm bad at reading him! hahaa but it's okay cause other people think he's town, right?"
The last part is a great way for rsoultin to get further thread sentiment about LS. It doesn't make sense from a town perspective to say something like this because townies will make the read for themselves and will only qualify what other people say when necessary. Here it just feels forced.
[quote]
and this
Yes, let's continue paraphrasing useless shit in an attempt to appear more townie. Repeating yourself by paraphrase is probably the worst way I've ever seen someone try to fake providing reads. You're digging yourself deeper every time you post.
aw cutie, you're not reading me at all if you think i don't have reads -amused-
narratives bore me. when you're done writing fairytales, let me know
when you're done copping out I might consider unvoting you.
however, you can just ask LS how hard I will tunnel you to death. And right now I can guarantee you will flip red once I'm done.
Can you not tunnel for a minute and give thoughts on other players?
nope
give me a good reason we shouldn't lynch rsoultin. You could also comment on the post I just made on her motivations as well. Do you think she has a town motivation this game? What makes you think yes/no?
respeeeeectfully instead of calling you what i normally would
do you have the faintest clue who you're even dealing with? do you know how i post? have you read all of my filter/posts? i highly doubt it. you seem intelligent enough to actually understand the meaning behind words, despite your behavior thus far
and once you realize how blindingly wrong you are, kindly comment on someone who actually has a chance in hell of being scum ^^ thanks
you.
I don't need to go further. You don't qualify any of your posts with reasons, so why should I bother? I have read your entire filter despite your pathetic attempts to paint me as not reading. Here's a hint: when you try to fake being angry at someone for not reading, perhaps you should point out exactly what they missed. Too bad there was nothing to miss because my posts were literal quotes of yours. How could I have missed something when there wasn't anything to miss?
It's like literally the dumbest cop out ever. I point out how you have not qualified your reads with reasons and the response is literally "nuh uh you're not reading here's my reason" with a quote or paraphrase of the thing I pointed out in the first place. It's like you want us to go in circles instead of progressing anywhere--I wonder which side wants to do that, hmm?
can you tell me how my reason was not a reason, wbg? i'm on the edge of my seat
a "toneread" is not a reason.
it's like saying "I think he is town because he talks like town".
What the hell does that even mean
did i or did i not EXPLAIN my toneread, which is QUALIFYING it?
what to you is not a reason about saying that he posts more fluidly as town than scum?
let's see examples, lady.
"fluidly" is a nice adjective and all, but to me it's another bullshit word just like "tone-read". You didn't explain it because saying something is a tone read and then saying he is talking fluidly is not an indicator of alignment, despite what you may now be asserting is.
On June 17 2015 11:26 GlowingBear wrote: Like, Bugs, I want first to actually form a read on you. And for that I need to know how you're approaching the game.
Opinions on other players, for example, help me with that.
I wouldn't lynch her day one solely for activity. So talking about her NOW is a waste of time.
And talking ABOUT you is also. But talking WITH YOU is important to me. I think we have much better targets.
This fight between you two actually feels very weird.
So let me get this straight. You want me to provide you reasons, and opinions. Which I certainly will, but right now I'm just not that interested in throwing around reads on people because it's a bit too early. This all is fine.
You, however, don't find it odd that rsoultin is NOT doing exactly what you want me to do? Why the double standard here? If I am to take what you said at face value you seem to want to ignore rsoultin, but why? What difference does it make waiting it out? People said the same shit about LS last game and he flipped scum day 1. She hasn't contributed anything and in her responses to me and ritoky it certainly doesn't seem like she is going to contribute anything any time soon. That's not indicative of her being town and to me that makes her the best lynch right now.
do not
make me
quote
all the posts
from my filter
giving opinions
it will piss
me
off
and make you
look
the fool
so instead of putting in more effort to explain yourself you're going to continue rehashing your own posts which you already made in an attempt to do what exactly?
I've already told you that I've read your filter and I've certainly demonstrated it, yet you still want to go in circles
On June 17 2015 11:37 Holyflare wrote: yo bugs you say you read multiple ls games to get a feel for his posts last game so why you not doing it here for this push?
most of my time so far has been occupied by either playing dota or reading/responding to posts that are happening in this game
While I like meta it falls maybe third or fourth down the list of things that are important in finding scum. Also I do intend to look at her past games, just maybe not tonight as it tends to take me quite a while and I'm probably going to go to sleep soon
On June 17 2015 11:37 Holyflare wrote: yo bugs you say you read multiple ls games to get a feel for his posts last game so why you not doing it here for this push?
most of my time so far has been occupied by either playing dota or reading/responding to posts that are happening in this game
While I like meta it falls maybe third or fourth down the list of things that are important in finding scum. Also I do intend to look at her past games, just maybe not tonight as it tends to take me quite a while and I'm probably going to go to sleep soon
well if i say that she does posts like that in all her games does that make your entire game redundant so far?
no, because if all her games include her scum games doesn't that mean it's alignment null?
On June 17 2015 11:37 Holyflare wrote: yo bugs you say you read multiple ls games to get a feel for his posts last game so why you not doing it here for this push?
most of my time so far has been occupied by either playing dota or reading/responding to posts that are happening in this game
While I like meta it falls maybe third or fourth down the list of things that are important in finding scum. Also I do intend to look at her past games, just maybe not tonight as it tends to take me quite a while and I'm probably going to go to sleep soon
well if i say that she does posts like that in all her games does that make your entire game redundant so far?
no, because if all her games include her scum games doesn't that mean it's alignment null?
good god how do you people make these posts
and if it's alignment null then your entire push is worthless? lol
No, because if you are alluding to her posting style being the same in all her games then obviously you are missing my point
my point is not that her posting style is scummy, which honestly makes no sense whatsoever and her saying that about damdred in the opposite sense is actually ironically one of the reasons I am calling her scum. This is not about tone or post style, it's about motivation. Just look at how she reacts to me pressuring her. First, she says I am not reading and regurgitates the same post I just quoted in order to "show" that I am not reading. When I push further to try to get her to explain her toneread she responds with "he's posting fluidly" which is incredibly underwhelming and not a good enough reason to read someone as town. It's not a reason at all, frankly. Townies have specific reasons for having specific reads, and this is not one of them.
Then if you look at her response just now when I asked for examples, she gives me an entire filter without doing any of the legwork herself. It's like the lowest effort a player can make, and she has failed to qualify her read with specific examples. Any townie who believes in their own meta read will go and find examples because that's what they use to qualify reads. Instead I am given an entire game thread link to mini mafia 2....
Since when is the onus on me to explain the supposed toneread that my #1 suspect has??
On June 17 2015 11:48 wherebugsgo wrote: yes, thanks for giving me a filter and putting the onus on me to explain YOUR read.
that's great fucking town motivation right there.
^^ i'm done with you
you don't have the motivation to check your own read despite literally everyone else in the thread thinking you're full of it. even ritoky isn't willing to commit to a scumread on me
you can't be assed to make reads on anyone else without being prodded multiple times, and even then only gave a read on damdred which you were ASKED FOR
how's that for town motivation ^^
what??? You gave me a link to a game for DAMDRED how is that me not wanting to check a read on YOU
The bold is literally the most hypocritical thing I've ever seen anyone say in a game of mafia
On June 17 2015 11:26 GlowingBear wrote: Like, Bugs, I want first to actually form a read on you. And for that I need to know how you're approaching the game.
Opinions on other players, for example, help me with that.
I wouldn't lynch her day one solely for activity. So talking about her NOW is a waste of time.
And talking ABOUT you is also. But talking WITH YOU is important to me. I think we have much better targets.
This fight between you two actually feels very weird.
So let me get this straight. You want me to provide you reasons, and opinions. Which I certainly will, but right now I'm just not that interested in throwing around reads on people because it's a bit too early. This all is fine.
You, however, don't find it odd that rsoultin is NOT doing exactly what you want me to do? Why the double standard here? If I am to take what you said at face value you seem to want to ignore rsoultin, but why? What difference does it make waiting it out? People said the same shit about LS last game and he flipped scum day 1. She hasn't contributed anything and in her responses to me and ritoky it certainly doesn't seem like she is going to contribute anything any time soon. That's not indicative of her being town and to me that makes her the best lynch right now.
Because as I said I don't care for her and I want to form a read on you so I can know if I can work with you or not.
Your reads were good last game. Help me identify townies?
And stop saying I'm bad when you have no fucking grasp of what I'm talking about. I don't get why you cannot NOT be a prick. Geez.
as I said already I'm not interested in divulging my reads right now, it's too early for me to divulge town reads. However you can read my response to breshke re Damdred if you're really interested in some of my other thought processes right now
On June 17 2015 11:26 GlowingBear wrote: Like, Bugs, I want first to actually form a read on you. And for that I need to know how you're approaching the game.
Opinions on other players, for example, help me with that.
I wouldn't lynch her day one solely for activity. So talking about her NOW is a waste of time.
And talking ABOUT you is also. But talking WITH YOU is important to me. I think we have much better targets.
This fight between you two actually feels very weird.
So let me get this straight. You want me to provide you reasons, and opinions. Which I certainly will, but right now I'm just not that interested in throwing around reads on people because it's a bit too early. This all is fine.
You, however, don't find it odd that rsoultin is NOT doing exactly what you want me to do? Why the double standard here? If I am to take what you said at face value you seem to want to ignore rsoultin, but why? What difference does it make waiting it out? People said the same shit about LS last game and he flipped scum day 1. She hasn't contributed anything and in her responses to me and ritoky it certainly doesn't seem like she is going to contribute anything any time soon. That's not indicative of her being town and to me that makes her the best lynch right now.
Because as I said I don't care for her and I want to form a read on you so I can know if I can work with you or not.
Your reads were good last game. Help me identify townies?
And stop saying I'm bad when you have no fucking grasp of what I'm talking about. I don't get why you cannot NOT be a prick. Geez.
as I said already I'm not interested in divulging my reads right now, it's too early for me to divulge town reads. However you can read my response to breshke re Damdred if you're really interested in some of my other thought processes right now
I've read it. It's just about Damdred, though.
This is the damning part of your gameplay here. You're not reacting to EVERY weird posts. You're reacting to rsoultin and questions directed solely to you, ONLY.
since you want to know why I call you dumb, this is pretty much it.
I am not responding to other posts because there is nothing of value to respond to. I am looking at other players but it makes no difference to me right now because it is not even halfway into day 1 and none of those reads at this time matter for anything.
Right now I can't tell whether you are purposely being obtuse as scum or if you are town and you just legitimately didn't pay enough attention to my play last game. To refresh your memory, this is how I play day 1. I firmly believe that players should refrain from throwing reads into the mix when they do not have enough information because it gives scum the opportunity to influence them and react to them before they are validated. Last game you can see this in my play when I rather abruptly shifted from tunneling you to tunneling your teammate LS. At that juncture I had enough people telling me that you were town that I started looking for alternate possibilities while still attacking you (because I wasn't fully convinced otherwise).
That effort paid off in the end and at no point did I want to lynch anyone other than LS that day. Given how much resistance I took then it was the right decision, and commenting on other players would've likely ruined my reads.
Now obviously that game is different and I got quite mad and posted my spreadsheet kinda late into the day but I was really desperate for people to listen to me on LS. Here I kinda am feeling a similar situation in which I really believe rsoultin is scum but I am not getting any support for it.
On June 17 2015 12:04 Holyflare wrote: bugs outline your main gripes in concise bullet point format rsoul answer them in concise bullet point format
1. The responsibility deflection was the first thing that caught my eye-rsoultin's first post in the game in which her comment on LS came off to me like she didn't want to commit too strongly one way or another on LS because doing so would cement her in that position. It's something I find scum do so they can give off the air that they have reads but in reality they are setting themselves up for the possibility of swinging the other way later.
On June 17 2015 08:27 rsoultin wrote: ls town but not town cause i'm bad about wrongly reading him town yay! i feel safer when others do it too, though! \o/
lol so angry rit
wbg eh...bresh may be right on the ego thing gettin' that too big for the thread feel from your posts, dude...
badumdum what else caught my eye in a scan worth commenting on? oh
i like damdy
tone, yay! \o/
oneg...can wait. not sure why he was the focus for so long lol >< i've got a semi-decent metaread i may break out later on him but it requires some actual posting xP
In this post she comments on several players but none of the reasons are very specific at all. I would be interested in knowing what this apparent metaread on onegu is now but I doubt she'll give anything forth given how hard she fought not to provide any reasons for the damdred read. A lot of these things come across as faked, or they are just surface-level things like the "lol so angry rit" which really doesn't do anything except give us the impression that rsoultin is doing something.
there's also this post:
kk
townreads at present: fidei damdy breshke gb ls
in terms of certainty, and no, not all are strong, and no i haven't explained all of those anything else is leans
The bolded to me is very interesting because it shows that she cares about how her reads come off. As a townie you know if you haven't explained something and if you list a read without an explanation you can just explain it when someone asks you. In fact this is a fairly good thing to do and lots of people do it all the time. However here it is as if she is anticipating someone asking her for an explanation and this is her way of shadowing that she will not explain them. What town motivation does a player have for doing that?
Finally her responses to me when I tried to get her to elucidate the LS and damdred reads were both literal rehashes of her original post, and that brings me to point #2
2. Despite the amount of times she has posted, she continues to go in circles and doesn't actually progress anywhere. So for example she says this:
On June 17 2015 08:27 rsoultin wrote: -rolls around the thread-
hihihihi
ls town but not town cause i'm bad about wrongly reading him town yay! i feel safer when others do it too, though! \o/
lol so angry rit
wbg eh...bresh may be right on the ego thing gettin' that too big for the thread feel from your posts, dude...
badumdum what else caught my eye in a scan worth commenting on? oh
i like damdy
tone, yay! \o/
oneg...can wait. not sure why he was the focus for so long lol >< i've got a semi-decent metaread i may break out later on him but it requires some actual posting xP
what does that even mean
you know the part that came after the part you bolded? it explains it ^^ cool, yeah?
so do you actually think he is town or not?
oh this is gonna be fun ^^ let me break it down
i think ls is town the "not town" part is my way of saying take it with a grain of salt BECAUSE (and this is the best part cause i love explaining myself five times) i have a tendency to townread him even when he's scum HOWEVER others who are better at reading him (i.e. damdy) also say town
so i'm more comfortable with the read than i otherwise would be
^ the best part is all of that was in a much more concise package originally ^^
okay.
can you tell me what you like about Dam?
he's my pretty hubby ^^ with the sexy accent
lol ><
actually, it's tonal. i don't generally qualify my tonereads cause they mean nothing to anyone but me anyway. best simple way to describe it to the uninitiated is fluidity...he's one stiff mofo as scum ^^
So here she says she doesn't generally qualify her tonereads because they apparently mean nothing to anyone but her...
First of all, if that's true, why would she ever bother putting a toneread in the thread if it doesn't mean anything to anyone but her? That's basically admitting she's only doing it for brownie points.
Qualifying something as a tone read isn't a reason. It's a cop out.
For anyone reading this, take a look at the following. Stuff like this
[quote]
Is a great example of responsibility deflection. This is what scum do when they want to give the appearance of having reads but do not want to entrench themselves in any one position because they don't want to get held accountable for them. There's no reason rsoultin here needs to make any sort of statement on LS, but even so why qualify it like this?
Let's say rsoultin actually thinks LS is town. This is not actually a reason to believe LS is town. All she is saying is that I think he's town now because other people think he's town, and providing a reason for not having a reason. "I think he's town but don't hold me to that cause I'm bad at reading him! hahaa but it's okay cause other people think he's town, right?"
The last part is a great way for rsoultin to get further thread sentiment about LS. It doesn't make sense from a town perspective to say something like this because townies will make the read for themselves and will only qualify what other people say when necessary. Here it just feels forced.
[quote]
and this
Yes, let's continue paraphrasing useless shit in an attempt to appear more townie. Repeating yourself by paraphrase is probably the worst way I've ever seen someone try to fake providing reads. You're digging yourself deeper every time you post.
aw cutie, you're not reading me at all if you think i don't have reads -amused-
narratives bore me. when you're done writing fairytales, let me know
when you're done copping out I might consider unvoting you.
however, you can just ask LS how hard I will tunnel you to death. And right now I can guarantee you will flip red once I'm done.
Can you not tunnel for a minute and give thoughts on other players?
nope
give me a good reason we shouldn't lynch rsoultin. You could also comment on the post I just made on her motivations as well. Do you think she has a town motivation this game? What makes you think yes/no?
respeeeeectfully instead of calling you what i normally would
do you have the faintest clue who you're even dealing with? do you know how i post? have you read all of my filter/posts? i highly doubt it. you seem intelligent enough to actually understand the meaning behind words, despite your behavior thus far
and once you realize how blindingly wrong you are, kindly comment on someone who actually has a chance in hell of being scum ^^ thanks
you.
I don't need to go further. You don't qualify any of your posts with reasons, so why should I bother? I have read your entire filter despite your pathetic attempts to paint me as not reading. Here's a hint: when you try to fake being angry at someone for not reading, perhaps you should point out exactly what they missed. Too bad there was nothing to miss because my posts were literal quotes of yours. How could I have missed something when there wasn't anything to miss?
It's like literally the dumbest cop out ever. I point out how you have not qualified your reads with reasons and the response is literally "nuh uh you're not reading here's my reason" with a quote or paraphrase of the thing I pointed out in the first place. It's like you want us to go in circles instead of progressing anywhere--I wonder which side wants to do that, hmm?
can you tell me how my reason was not a reason, wbg? i'm on the edge of my seat
a "toneread" is not a reason.
it's like saying "I think he is town because he talks like town".
What the hell does that even mean
did i or did i not EXPLAIN my toneread, which is QUALIFYING it?
what to you is not a reason about saying that he posts more fluidly as town than scum?
Let's see that side by side:
i don't generally qualify my tonereads cause they mean nothing to anyone but me anyway. best simple way to describe it to the uninitiated is fluidity...he's one stiff mofo as scum ^^
did i or did i not EXPLAIN my toneread, which is QUALIFYING it?
what to you is not a reason about saying that he posts more fluidly as town than scum?
The best part is that she admits that she doesn't qualify her tonereads because they don't mean anything to anyone except her. This is first of all an excuse in itself for not providing a reason in the first place, and it doesn't make sense because if the read doesn't mean anything to anyone then why post it all?
Secondly she goes ahead and does "explain" it which I don't know how you can call it that. It's literally saying "I think he is town because he sounds town."
Then later she says "didn't I explain my toneread?" No, she copped out of explaining it. When I demanded an example she just dumped a link to a game instead of actually making any sort of effort to prove that she legitimately believed what she said she did.
and then there's this
aw cutie, you're not reading me at all if you think i don't have reads -amused-
narratives bore me. when you're done writing fairytales, let me know
Which again is a rehash of what she said earlier about me not reading...okay, fine, but as you can see in the post I just quoted, she literally doesn't have any reads!
She said herself that she has five townreads, the following people:
fidei damdy breshke gb ls
BUT that everything else is "leans" and not all of these are strong. She also admitted that she didn't explain (at least some) of these reads. Sounds to me like she doesn't have any reads.
So how exactly am I failing to read her here? She simply says that to discredit me. Townies don't do that and they don't contradict themselves so blatantly or misrepresent themselves either.
On June 17 2015 11:26 GlowingBear wrote: Like, Bugs, I want first to actually form a read on you. And for that I need to know how you're approaching the game.
Opinions on other players, for example, help me with that.
I wouldn't lynch her day one solely for activity. So talking about her NOW is a waste of time.
And talking ABOUT you is also. But talking WITH YOU is important to me. I think we have much better targets.
This fight between you two actually feels very weird.
So let me get this straight. You want me to provide you reasons, and opinions. Which I certainly will, but right now I'm just not that interested in throwing around reads on people because it's a bit too early. This all is fine.
You, however, don't find it odd that rsoultin is NOT doing exactly what you want me to do? Why the double standard here? If I am to take what you said at face value you seem to want to ignore rsoultin, but why? What difference does it make waiting it out? People said the same shit about LS last game and he flipped scum day 1. She hasn't contributed anything and in her responses to me and ritoky it certainly doesn't seem like she is going to contribute anything any time soon. That's not indicative of her being town and to me that makes her the best lynch right now.
Because as I said I don't care for her and I want to form a read on you so I can know if I can work with you or not.
Your reads were good last game. Help me identify townies?
And stop saying I'm bad when you have no fucking grasp of what I'm talking about. I don't get why you cannot NOT be a prick. Geez.
as I said already I'm not interested in divulging my reads right now, it's too early for me to divulge town reads. However you can read my response to breshke re Damdred if you're really interested in some of my other thought processes right now
I've read it. It's just about Damdred, though.
This is the damning part of your gameplay here. You're not reacting to EVERY weird posts. You're reacting to rsoultin and questions directed solely to you, ONLY.
since you want to know why I call you dumb, this is pretty much it.
I am not responding to other posts because there is nothing of value to respond to. I am looking at other players but it makes no difference to me right now because it is not even halfway into day 1 and none of those reads at this time matter for anything.
Right now I can't tell whether you are purposely being obtuse as scum or if you are town and you just legitimately didn't pay enough attention to my play last game. To refresh your memory, this is how I play day 1. I firmly believe that players should refrain from throwing reads into the mix when they do not have enough information because it gives scum the opportunity to influence them and react to them before they are validated. Last game you can see this in my play when I rather abruptly shifted from tunneling you to tunneling your teammate LS. At that juncture I had enough people telling me that you were town that I started looking for alternate possibilities while still attacking you (because I wasn't fully convinced otherwise).
That effort paid off in the end and at no point did I want to lynch anyone other than LS that day. Given how much resistance I took then it was the right decision, and commenting on other players would've likely ruined my reads.
Now obviously that game is different and I got quite mad and posted my spreadsheet kinda late into the day but I was really desperate for people to listen to me on LS. Here I kinda am feeling a similar situation in which I really believe rsoultin is scum but I am not getting any support for it.
Let me tell you something: Calling people bad without good reasoning makes people not wanting to support you because your read is shit anyway. You're the one who comes to the thread and say O HAI PEOPLE TELL ME WHO IS GOOD AND HOW THEY PLAY SO I CAN FORM READS BASED ON IDENTITY and then people tell you THE THINGS YOU'RE SAYING THAT RSOULTIN IS SCUM FOR IS NOT ALIGNMENT INDICATIVE FOR HER and what is your answer? WHARRGARBL RSOULTIN SCUM I WON'T TALK ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE.
Nothing of value? Like the list post I've made? They have reasoning. You can help me talking about that reasoning. But you decide not to. You prefer to keep going against rsoultin.
I'd rather lynch both of you now because all you're doing is shitting the thread. I'm sick of coming back to here and see a discussion that will lead nowhere.
ROFL
yes, I think identity is important, but motivation is the most important. You can't use meta solely to call people scum because meta is hard to use and it's often not elucidative. That's why things like tonereads and blah blah whatever else you people call it nowadays are little more than copouts unless you can back them up extensively. Scum often use shitty meta to get away with not actually providing real motivational reads because it's easy to fake having a meta read. All you have to do is say that someone is not posting how they normally post and then bam, a bunch of stupid townies believe you because they have nothing better to go off of and they certainly don't have the time to fact check you. That's why when people use meta the onus is on them to provide the evidence.
I like knowing who others think are good because it gives me good expectations. The problem is no one really gave me a good answer and besides Mig I don't really know anyone here anyway. Mig also hasn't bothered to post yet so what the fuck am I going to do with that?
Also yes, the list post you made is worthless to me right now almost by virtue of being a list post. Why the fuck would you seed the thread with all of your reads before you can even be half confident in them? I would perhaps understand if you are close to 100% certain on particular players but given that one of your posts had 5 scum in a game with 17 people I seriously doubt you think that way about all of those in your list.
also if you expect me to respond to this:
On June 17 2015 11:51 GlowingBear wrote:
Actual Listpost v1.0
Probs town
Holyflare (not posting + ninja vote on Bill Murray isn't a thing I see scumFlare comfortable at doing)
Damdred (tone reading, looks like town, fluid posts)
NydusHerMain(? need to keep an eye on him because when he got universally townread he stopped caring and just
came back to comment on posts that cited him, which is mafia indicative)
Kelsier (? need to keep an eye on him because he oddly tried to disrupt town while throwing suspicions on LS without actually trying to convince thread with strong arguments)
ritoky (trolled but jumped on rsoultin as a clear reaction to thread direction, not a strong read but could me town
Breshke (thinking critically about the game)
LS (a lot of activity early game, enough to grant him a day1 pass IMO)
Null
rsoultin (not caring for her today)
Bill Murray (could lynch pls)
Bugs (some of his approach looks scummy, some others look townie - in other words, I like that he pushes rsoultin but I dislike his unawareness of the rest of the thread - last game he was reacting to mostly everything but here he is tunneling rsoultin, which is a very easy behaviour for scum to adopt)
Fidei (meh)
Mig (who?)
Probs Mafia
Onegu (unnecessary need to claim VT ESPECIALLY after he was scumread for not claiming VT in a previous game + meta: town onegu is lazy and I don't see him giving himself the trouble to going into another game to paste an opening where he claimed VT as town + Onegu prefers playing as scum and he was too excited for rolling VT, meanwhile in the other game he was extremely upset he rolled VT)
boxerfred (opening is a joke post commenting another joke post and fucking off of the thread)
boxerfred
then you should rethink your approach. Like I said before I'm not going to bother seeding the thread with my reads. Choose what you think is important, otherwise I'm not going to give you shit because your approach sucks.
On June 17 2015 12:39 Holyflare wrote: also bugs man i said concise x_x
my bad.
tl;dr
1. she deflected responsibility for having a read on LS but appeared to sheep town sentiment to get away with not providing a real read of her own. Her "reasons" are very non-specific and nebulous.
2. She constantly goes in circles with no intention of making progress with some very blatant contradictions and lies. e.g. she says that I am not reading her posts if I think she has no useful reads when she herself said that she only has 5 townish reads (and she went out of her way to qualify that they are not strong and that she hasn't explained them) while in her own words everything else is "leans". She also said that her toneread doesn't mean anything to other players which begs the question as to why she posted the read in the first place. In addition her reaction to me requesting an explanation on said toneread was very scummy because she "qualified" it by saying Damdred's posts are "fluid" while this in reality is just another copout. Her "evidence" for him saying so was nothing more than a link to a previous game. No effort.
If you think the tl;dr is tl;dr then: deflection of responsibility, unwillingness to make progress/explain self and instead is more than willing to go in circles, contradictory posts, and a lack of effort when asked to quantify things with post evidence.
On June 17 2015 12:42 GlowingBear wrote: It's a shame we have to come to this kind of discussion, really. Maybe you can have good reads and others don't, but your inability to work with people overwhelms any good town trait you may have, bugs.
I'm not unwilling to work with you. I just don't want to take your approach because I disagree with it.
What exactly do you think is the benefit of putting forth so many reads less than 5 hours into the game?
On June 17 2015 12:42 GlowingBear wrote: It's a shame we have to come to this kind of discussion, really. Maybe you can have good reads and others don't, but your inability to work with people overwhelms any good town trait you may have, bugs.
I'm not unwilling to work with you. I just don't want to take your approach because I disagree with it.
What exactly do you think is the benefit of putting forth so many reads less than 5 hours into the game?
Probably useless because they keep changing every minute. It just looks towny and I feel like GB might be mafia trying to blend into town... Same way I feel about damdred. Is it wrong of me to be scum reading some of the more active posters? I feel like I should be town reading them for being so open with their thoughts. zzzz lots to learn.
umm
well I would say that one of the things about hunting mafia is that surface-level things can often be red herrings.
For example I hesitate to scum read active people too, and I think it is natural because a lot of the time scum don't put in a lot of effort. However it's not quite so clear cut because a lot of scum teams have one or two lurky players and a couple others who blend in or even attempt to lead town. e.g. I know I am not one to back down as scum and I know other players like Ace, BC, etc. who are also pretty active as scum. So here I would not hold activity as a high regard or alignment indicative unless you know a particular player does not care for playing one alignment or another. For example both Onegu and LS favor one alignment over the other; Onegu prefers to play scum and LS prefers to play town, so in the last game I played after I started suspecting LS of being scum when I looked at his past games there were a lot of similarities in effort and read quality between LS's play that game and his previous scum games.
What I think is more important than activity but along the same lines is the level of effort someone makes in qualifying or justifying particular stances they take in the game. Scum are unlikely to give specific reasons for the things they say because a lot of the time they are faking. In the cases where they are not faking (e.g. when they make "townreads") sometimes they give themselves away in the way that they will come to a certain conclusion through a thought process that isn't organic or doesn't appear to be grounded in events that occur in the thread. Signs that this is the case can be seen when a scum player responds to a request to elucidate a town read. If you agree that the target is town, see if your reasons match, and if not, try to see if the provided reasons are specific and make sense in the context of the thread. If they are not really backed up by anything or somehow come out of nowhere they are probably scum.
So instead of surface level things like aggressiveness, activity, lack of activity, etc. I think it's better if you try to look at motivation. e.g. if I were in X player's perspective and I were town, what would I do? Try to see if what they are actually doing can be explained from one perspective vs another. Certain things can be explained from both perspectives but you can filter those things out and try to identify the things that are indicative one way or another. Often times perspective analysis, at least for me, is easier from a town perspective because there are certain things that mafia "would never do", or at least be very unlikely to do, for example defend a particular player in a situation where doing so would attract a lot of attention.
On June 17 2015 12:48 ritoky wrote: goddamn feels like someone pissed in half the thread's cheerios this morning. so much useless shitfighting; pretty sure my eyes have glazed over at half of bugs' posts cuz it is just him picking a fight over the most minute stuff.
then again hf kinda agrees with him, so maybe i should actually go read it.
On June 17 2015 12:48 ritoky wrote: goddamn feels like someone pissed in half the thread's cheerios this morning. so much useless shitfighting; pretty sure my eyes have glazed over at half of bugs' posts cuz it is just him picking a fight over the most minute stuff.
then again hf kinda agrees with him, so maybe i should actually go read it.
reading is good, my troll
dunno why you keep calling me a troll and ignoring my posting, beliebe it or not i actually have le content in le posts
choppa 4 reporting.
I'm not ignoring you! I just think your posts are funny
On June 17 2015 13:06 rsoultin wrote: oh that reminded me something about onegu bugs asked
btw gb i'm not sure on bugs...he's a scumlean at most. i don't like the tunnel but i still can't decide if it's genuine or not cause i don't know him from adam
the onegu metaread as i said earlier when i first mentioned it requires him to post more. if i say anything else about it now he can tailor his play to it. surely you can understand that, bugs -_-
I think this is possibly the towniest thing you've said so far
On June 17 2015 13:06 rsoultin wrote: oh that reminded me something about onegu bugs asked
btw gb i'm not sure on bugs...he's a scumlean at most. i don't like the tunnel but i still can't decide if it's genuine or not cause i don't know him from adam
the onegu metaread as i said earlier when i first mentioned it requires him to post more. if i say anything else about it now he can tailor his play to it. surely you can understand that, bugs -_-
I think this is possibly the towniest thing you've said so far
but on a scale of 1 to 10 it's still about a 2
Well, at least you doubled your score
did you read my response to your case at all? this is not an accusation; i genuinely want to know
On June 17 2015 12:48 ritoky wrote: goddamn feels like someone pissed in half the thread's cheerios this morning. so much useless shitfighting; pretty sure my eyes have glazed over at half of bugs' posts cuz it is just him picking a fight over the most minute stuff.
then again hf kinda agrees with him, so maybe i should actually go read it.
reading is good, my troll
dunno why you keep calling me a troll and ignoring my posting, beliebe it or not i actually have le content in le posts
choppa 4 reporting.
I'm not ignoring you! I just think your posts are funny
i do what i can to please my fans.
to all the alakaslams of the world out there. this one goes out to you
On June 17 2015 12:58 GlowingBear wrote: By the way, trust the tone read rsoultin gives on damdred and me
I've been discussing games with her for a long while and he does that every time. And she does it correctly.
Like, I told her I was freezingfoot last game and she said: you're scum right? you don't feel like town gb
I trust her tone reads as genuine
What is rubbing me the wrong way is the shitfight she entered and the refusal to get off of it.
I agree the shitfight is not helping town but I don't think it is alignment indicative. Even before they interacted i knew her and bugs would not get along no matter their alignment unless they were mafia together. That is like the only thing I got out of that shitfight the fact that they i think they can not be mafia together.
But yeah I don't think you should judge them on the shitfight because it is jsut their personalities and yeah its boring as fuck but it is because they are both stubborn. They both seem likely town to me now another reason the shitfight is boring as hell.
GB why are you sheeping HF? Wheres the townread come from you might have said but i missed it.
The problem about the fight is that it felt unnatural to me. Keeping on a tunneled fight is what Damdred and GB did in a game before, since day1. Another Boring Mafia, I believe it's something like that. It's very easy to get this tunneled.
I'm sheeping because it's an old promise, and I can always lynch him if he is wrong. Also, I said that HF is a very capable scum and I don't think him, as scum, would be playing the way he is playing. It's outside of his "safe zone". Weak reason, I know. But it's still indicative.
wtf are you talking about yourself in the third person?
@GB if you didn't notice what I said earlier, I'm willing to discuss with you. I just want you to give me specific things you think are important. I'm not going to discuss big lists because I do not find them useful. If you disagree then obviously the best course of action for you is to work with me rather than expecting me to conform to your process, because I'm not sure in how many more ways I can say that I think dumping reads into the thread is a bad thing to do when I do not feel confident in doing so. Unfortunately I do not feel the same way as I felt in the previous game, although it is much earlier in the game now than it was then when I decided that I had a good handle on things.
On June 17 2015 13:26 Holyflare wrote: yes but the fact the game started without him being replaced means he had to have confirmed his pm in like the last 30 mins before the game started and then just did nothing
...
lol that's a good point, i didn't think about the confirmation timing
super duper awesome lazy would lynch list of lazyness, GO!
hey >> not a mind reader lol
nh take fidei off otherwise...ignoring your spoilered ones presently...the unspoilered ones are fine with me otherwise
so, putting this out here on the chance that oneg is being especially lazy as town...if you give me nothing to read you by i'll assume this is the scum game you chose to break meta with <3
You made a point in saying that the majority of your reads are based on meta. If Onegu, according to your meta read, is town when he's inactive (because he supposedly doesn't like playing as town), why would this be the game where you break your meta read on him now when you're holding onto your metareads on other people?
nice catch bro
GB I'm disappointed. You sounded like you wanted to come out and play but you didn't, and now you're doing dumb shit like voting random lurkers. Are you scum again?
On June 18 2015 01:05 LightningStrike wrote: Bugs since you are here read on me atm and why?
you seem to be a little focused on your own appearance right now, e.g. your responses to KSC/HF but as far as I can tell that's not alignment indicative for you
but don't worry you're not in my naughty bucket yet, I have a couple secrets that make me think you shouldn't be there hehehe
On June 18 2015 01:11 boxerfred wrote: I'm leaving work now, will be home in roughly 2 hours. I'll check on rsoultin later and give a read. Thus far, I did skim through the whole thread but I really need to read deeper and with more time to it.
On June 18 2015 01:11 boxerfred wrote: I'm leaving work now, will be home in roughly 2 hours. I'll check on rsoultin later and give a read. Thus far, I did skim through the whole thread but I really need to read deeper and with more time to it.
On June 18 2015 01:05 LightningStrike wrote: Bugs since you are here read on me atm and why?
you seem to be a little focused on your own appearance right now, e.g. your responses to KSC/HF but as far as I can tell that's not alignment indicative for you
but don't worry you're not in my naughty bucket yet, I have a couple secrets that make me think you shouldn't be there hehehe
(Wags tail) I see :D Any thoughts on GB like do you think he scum again this game or no and why?
my concern with GB is that he seemed to be capable of playing quite well as scum in the previous game. There are certain things that bother me, e.g. the fact that he seemed to disagree on rsoultin but his vote was on rsoultin. Now his vote isn't there but it hasn't particularly moved in a manner that makes him look very good. In addition he appeared to want to work with me, and I told him how he could do it, yet in the course of 12ish hours when he has actually posted in the thread, he didn't bother to ask me anything. That's fairly damning given that I would've expected him to have something to ask when he seemed to feel so strongly about me apparently not wanting to work with him.
On June 18 2015 01:05 LightningStrike wrote: Bugs since you are here read on me atm and why?
you seem to be a little focused on your own appearance right now, e.g. your responses to KSC/HF but as far as I can tell that's not alignment indicative for you
but don't worry you're not in my naughty bucket yet, I have a couple secrets that make me think you shouldn't be there hehehe
(Wags tail) I see :D Any thoughts on GB like do you think he scum again this game or no and why?
my concern with GB is that he seemed to be capable of playing quite well as scum in the previous game. There are certain things that bother me, e.g. the fact that he seemed to disagree on rsoultin but his vote was on rsoultin. Now his vote isn't there but it hasn't particularly moved in a manner that makes him look very good. In addition he appeared to want to work with me, and I told him how he could do it, yet in the course of 12ish hours when he has actually posted in the thread, he didn't bother to ask me anything. That's fairly damning given that I would've expected him to have something to ask when he seemed to feel so strongly about me apparently not wanting to work with him.
It is a little odd but not yet odd considering what happened in our last game between you two but yet since he said he wanted to work with you this game it's a little surprising he haven't done much with you. If he's scum it would be more than just that though but yet I don't exactly know how to read GB as scum myself.
On June 18 2015 01:05 LightningStrike wrote: Bugs since you are here read on me atm and why?
you seem to be a little focused on your own appearance right now, e.g. your responses to KSC/HF but as far as I can tell that's not alignment indicative for you
but don't worry you're not in my naughty bucket yet, I have a couple secrets that make me think you shouldn't be there hehehe
(Wags tail) I see :D Any thoughts on GB like do you think he scum again this game or no and why?
my concern with GB is that he seemed to be capable of playing quite well as scum in the previous game. There are certain things that bother me, e.g. the fact that he seemed to disagree on rsoultin but his vote was on rsoultin. Now his vote isn't there but it hasn't particularly moved in a manner that makes him look very good. In addition he appeared to want to work with me, and I told him how he could do it, yet in the course of 12ish hours when he has actually posted in the thread, he didn't bother to ask me anything. That's fairly damning given that I would've expected him to have something to ask when he seemed to feel so strongly about me apparently not wanting to work with him.
It is a little odd but not yet odd considering what happened in our last game between you two but yet since he said he wanted to work with you this game it's a little surprising he haven't done much with you. If he's scum it would be more than just that though but yet I don't exactly know how to read GB as scum myself.
yeah I need some more time on him
Fair enough. Anyone other thoughts you want to give out atm?
what do you think of Kelsier? I think he's got some fairly stupid opinions/reads but he comes off as town to me
On June 18 2015 02:32 NydusHerMain wrote: Something bothering me is that people have these huge town circles. I feel like people are either calling their fence leaning towns "probably town" or they're giving town reads out like candy. I think ya'll are being too careless if your scum circle is primarily lurkers (or town is just rocking).
why did you say this when you yourself posted a list of like 6 people you think are town?
If I were supremely confident that 6 out of 17 people were town I'd feel really comfortable. In fact at that point I'd probably just start dumping my reads to see how everyone matches up on the people I don't feel so great about.
On June 18 2015 03:01 NydusHerMain wrote: What I'm saying is I have 6/17 town reads and I'm comfortable hunting scum but I don't think people who have 13 towns as their 4 scum, etc. are just lurkers is going to win us the game.
I don't see how GB falls into this category. His last list post had something like 7 or 8 people listed as town. How is that vastly different from 6?
Damdred also only listed like 5 people he was confident were town and I think one of those was himself
On June 18 2015 03:54 KelsierSC wrote: I'm going to leave this for now but I think i've made it quite clear that LS is scum and you should be voting for him if you're town.
I not I blue :O
you're not actually a blue because no blue would be that stupid.
ah yes, the "dumb = scum" trap
Ironically I think this is a dumb thing for you to say.
Although your anger comes off really fake to me...why must the worst people in the game be the hardest to read?
On June 18 2015 03:54 KelsierSC wrote: I'm going to leave this for now but I think i've made it quite clear that LS is scum and you should be voting for him if you're town.
I not I blue :O
you're not actually a blue because no blue would be that stupid.
ah yes, the "dumb = scum" trap
Ironically I think this is a dumb thing for you to say.
Although your anger comes off really fake to me...why must the worst people in the game be the hardest to read?
It is best if you go back to your stance of not talking to me.
Why, cause you know I'm right and you're dumb? oh maybe you're scum after all!
for the rest of the thread, Kelsier is griping on things that are not scumtells. Indeed him getting so mad at everything leads me to believe he actually isn't town, given that nothing in this game so far that he has gotten mad about has actually been something I would get mad about...and many of you know how mad I would get if I actually thought this game was going poorly.
Case in point, from the game I hosted, a town but dumb artanis did this:
On June 06 2015 04:56 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I think this game needs some action, berating for people being bad and stuff like that. I hardclaim jailkeeper.
This out of the blue claim makes almost no sense from a mafia perspective, especially coming from a mafia player who is so weak like LS. This actually pretty much makes LS 100% town because as scum there is no way he would ever consider taking that much attention completely out of the blue (hehe geddit) on day 1 under almost no serious pressure.
Kelsier is scum for not being able to see this and instead getting "mad" at everything and everyone. I would expect someone who even considers themselves half good as town to be able to understand basic scum and town motivations, and Kelsier so far has not demonstrated that ability.
On June 18 2015 03:54 KelsierSC wrote: I'm going to leave this for now but I think i've made it quite clear that LS is scum and you should be voting for him if you're town.
I not I blue :O
you're not actually a blue because no blue would be that stupid.
ah yes, the "dumb = scum" trap
Ironically I think this is a dumb thing for you to say.
Although your anger comes off really fake to me...why must the worst people in the game be the hardest to read?
who exactly are you scum reading btw? don't remember you saying a single thing since rsoultin penis battle
Did a couple rereads on rsoultin and not feeling that great about lynching her. Would prefer Kelsier at this point because his play doesn't make much sense to me from a town perspective.
On June 18 2015 04:22 Holyflare wrote: i don't think kelsier is scum either :D :D :D
why? he's pushing the lowest-common-denominator players in LS and shockeyy, and I wouldn't call what he did with respect to shockey much of a push.
When you look at his posts in general and in particular on LS they all come off as fake anger. Literally every post he has is angry for no particular reason. When townies get angry they generally do it in reaction to happenings in the thread. Kelsier is just faking angry all the time.
Within his first few posts in the game he says stuff like this:
On June 17 2015 07:25 NydusHerMain wrote: I don't like kelsier either. Stupid thing to go on rofl. I think that if I saw someone else post what I did I'd be like "great that doesn't really mean anything. Let's move on" haha
On June 17 2015 07:06 LightningStrike wrote: Hi guys I finally rolled town and I hope bugs had rolled town too since he played really good in the last game I played with him when I was scum vs his town :o
derp.
LOL
good old LightningStrike
he used :o already but I imagine if he rolled scum he'll be more careful this time to not get caught by me. Take this as your warning, you know that I know your meta. You better help me out this game or I hope for your sake that you are scum, cause you'll be dead before you know it.
anyway, come out and play, Mig. You better not have rolled scum this game or I'll be disappointed I have no one good to talk to
##vote Mig
lol that has to be the most fabricated, weak shit i've ever seen.
On June 17 2015 07:31 LightningStrike wrote: [quote] Really anyone can just claim town you know -_-
On June 17 2015 07:06 LightningStrike wrote: Hi guys I finally rolled town and I hope bugs had rolled town too since he played really good in the last game I played with him when I was scum vs his town :o
derp.
LOL
good old LightningStrike
he used :o already but I imagine if he rolled scum he'll be more careful this time to not get caught by me. Take this as your warning, you know that I know your meta. You better help me out this game or I hope for your sake that you are scum, cause you'll be dead before you know it.
anyway, come out and play, Mig. You better not have rolled scum this game or I'll be disappointed I have no one good to talk to
##vote Mig
lol that has to be the most fabricated, weak shit i've ever seen.
Actually he does know my meta and in fact he made a meta case on me in Witchcraft III when I rolled scum and here was the case:
On June 09 2015 05:35 wherebugsgo wrote: ##vote LightningStrike
I think Lightning is like 95% scum.
At first in my notes I had Lightning as having a scummy entrance, focusing a lot on asking people questions but using a tone and posting style that is very non-confrontational. This causes LS's posts to come off as forced and I find it hard to piece together his logic if he were town. e.g. this post:
On June 08 2015 08:49 LightningStrike wrote:
On June 08 2015 08:44 Breshke wrote:
On June 08 2015 08:35 LightningStrike wrote: So Breshke any thoughts on Wherebugsgo right now?
not really. Do you?
On June 08 2015 08:36 wherebugsgo wrote: [quote]
I think they would be more likely to reveal themselves as town.
Granted, a smurf does not have to reveal themselves to be useful to town. I have smurfed myself, and the reason I do it is often quite simple-most people don't ask, and those who do can be placated by providing opinions and good reads. I have never had the luxury of rolling scum while smurfing, but if I ever did I do not doubt it would be one of the easiest ways to achieve victory.
It is plainly obvious why smurfing is far more advantageous to the individual player than the team as a whole. The town only benefits if the player who is smurfing is a high caliber town player, rolls town, and escapes getting shot night 1 due to being a smurf. Otherwise, town stands to gain nothing from a mediocre townie or a bad townie smurfing other than a lack of insight into the player's behaviour.
You should always hold smurfs to a higher standard because if they refuse to reveal their identity then you have no background to be working with. You have no expectation of their play, and an ordinarily good townie has rolled scum on a smurf you have no way of knowing.
Yeah I understand this but that doesn't make not revealing who you are to be alignment indicative. If someone has chosen to smurf they have chosen pre game that they probably don't want to reveal who they are. I feel like saying, reveal yourself or get lynched, is a waste because it depends on the player on how they will act so you can't really get much from that.
Also to talk about this now instead of when mafia will be trying to hunt roles. I think it is best in at least the first phase that a lot of the chosen powers are information type roles specifically scrying
I kinda dislike his pressure on FreezingFoot since FreezingFoot could be a smurf and him calling him out so early just seems like it's a preplanned motion from him regardless of his alignment so null.
Notice the qualifications I've bolded here.
He doesn't like it, but goes back and says oh I guess it could be preplanned. So it's null. Null is not a read.
There's also this that follows:
On June 08 2015 08:50 LightningStrike wrote: Also sure it would be nice knowing FreezingFoot's aka but it's not as important as finding scum.
Notice LS says it's not as important as finding scum but LS doesn't actually ever attempt to find scum.
Half of LS's posts focus on "hey I'll be back later" and are also seemingly very self-aware. e.g:
On June 08 2015 09:02 LightningStrike wrote: Well guys I going to get some dinner and when I come back I will check everything that goes on after this post!
Townies don't generally do this so freaking often. You don't need to announce to everyone that you're going to do your job as a townie, unless you are very new or scum.
TL Mafia database has a LOT of games for LS. So he is NOT a new player. This instantly made me more suspicious, but I wanted to see if as town LS was more confident and helpful. Turns out, LS is one of those players I would say has a very clear cut difference between town and mafia. I would suggest you all to skim over some of LS's past games, but in particular the ones that stand out are:
LightningStrike wrote: I'm back and I finding Geript pretty townie this game but than again I never played vs his Mafia yet but so far I feel he's pushing and asking a ton of questions is pretty much him being town. Slam is thinking logically so far although I hate how he suggested a RNG shot Blazinghand style but he been pushing out ideas and not being boring like he was in Slytherin and Student IV when he was Mafia so I giving him a town read by meta. HTS looks really shakey and starting to look a tiny bit like her Void and Newbie LX Mafia games so possible Mafia by meta. rsoultin I love you and all but I need some extra time on you from the fact that I just coming off of 2 games of you being Mafia and might get some paranoia which I might have still on HTS because I not completely forgiven her for lynching me in Newbie LX. But you being very cheerful so far but idk if that is alignment indicative. Tubesock I hated the No Shoot idea but the logic behind it seems townie but I have yet to see him play as Mafia. Breshke is asking some questions and also reconsider his own thoughts and looks townie. Damdred you need to bleed town this game to me because the last time I played with you in Titanic you were Mafia yet you looked so townie in my eyes I just couldn't really play right Your Mom and Sepulchre are both smurfs and idk their other ids but I finding Sepulchre pretty townie on his large post and asking questions with some good explanations for why he thought of stuff like HTS making them intentionally bad or bait and his thing on OBS but I remember OBS having bad Day 1s as town so I would give OBS some extra time to see if he bleeds town. Your Mom haven't posted much either and got Null on him simply because he got very short questions and posts so far so I might need more posts from him to see where he lies for now.
vs
2.
LightningStrike wrote: Town: Eden: Played with before when he was Mafia and Town but we he seems to be town this game. Geript: Toneread says town he seems to ask some good questions. Snickers: Being extremely serious and giving his thoughts freely it kind of reminds me of a more serious me. Oatsmaster: Trying to get discussions going with pms and stuff but also he just being himself as town this game. Liancourt: He seems interested this game which is a good sign for him being town although I never him play as Mafia before. Null: Koshi: 1 post from him this game and it isn't really alignment indicative. sicklucker: I can't read him anymore on Day 1 after playing with him when he was Mafia and I was town. Also his Day 1 is bad. VisceraEyes: 1 post and wasn't alignment indicative need more posts from him.
LightningStrike wrote: I don't disagree for now on the Eden read. Rsoultin just seems to happy to be Mafia given she played as Mafia twice in a row into Town with me lol. I'm sorry I was Mafia in that game Damdred it just hurt when you called me Mafia but Geript carried me till he died and did a hilarious bus on Sandroba when sicklucker got lynched lol........
LightningStrike wrote: I agree with you on kita Rayn considering a lot has happened since his last post and not really commenting anything relevant except for the shot ideas. Also I remember Toad being mostly carefree early in Hammertime when I was a Cohost when he was Town and he coming across the same way so I incline to think he's town. Rayn you know how to read Sicklucker from my past experience with you and him together any thoughts on Sicklucker so far?
LightningStrike wrote: Sorry I was playing LoL game and HF's case on JAT is legit now that we seen HF flip Town and he made many good points on JAT and honestly the bully behavior that JAT displayed this game when people were voting is consistent with his behavior in Void mafia where he bullied people off him in the entire game as scum. Here's his filter from that game although he just was smurfing in that game that is why the name might be off His scum game in Void: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/475749-the-void-mafia?user=Wile E. Coyote
LightningStrike wrote: I'm back and sicklucker is fighting Breshke instead of the other cell mates o.o Also Geript being mad at Kita too and Tube fighting Geript this is interesting stuff going on here and personally I never played in a Cell Setup before so this interesting. Also Geript claimed he got Vig powers and claimed to had shot Sep but yet Sep survived so most likely Ninja in Sep if what Geript was saying is true. I will admit I guarded the Button since we don't know what the button does I thought it was safe play since it kind of like the presents in Carol where we gotten random Presents 1 from a Mass Murderer when unwraped instant kill the person 1 with a Cop power for the Night and 1 with a Vig Shot for the Night and since it prob pure rng what we get I really don't want to give Mafia extra powers or extra powers for ninjas either and weighed it in myself and decided to guard the button.
vs
2.
LightningStrike wrote: Sorry for not posting much and a update on reading Sandro's past games and will come up with stuff for tomorrow and sicklucker paranoia went through my head sorry and now seeing some light that you are more likely town than Mafia. Tomorrow I will present my findings on Sandro's past games as both alignments and present everything I have on him.
vs
3.
LightningStrike wrote: I was just wating for more posts to get some better reads that why I haven't posted much because there was really much for me to ready. I still waiting for alakaslam, Dicksmash McIroncock, and Meatpudding to post. My reads are atm the following Town: Oatsmaster, sicklucker, Damdred, kushm4sta, Trfel Null: Half the Sky, Breshke, Alakaslam Scum: Dicksmash McIroncock, Meatpudding. Dicksmash didn't post anything after his first post for the day and Meatpudding is either trolling us with the stuff he posted earlier or he scum but time will tell. Alakaslam at least gave a good explanation for his posts. Breshke gave a explanation on why he voted for sicklucker Half the Sky made some decent posts but it reads null in my eyes but I still kind of new to TL Mafia (2nd game in TL mafia).
vs
4.
LightningStrike wrote: Guys fyi I wont be here from about 11:45 am to at least 4:30 pm CST and I still think Sandroba is Mafia based on meta and Oats I getting him as Town as he playing like he did in Office, Void, and New Years Eve Party where he was a little lazy but he seemed a little motivated now to play the game although I wished he had played on Day 1 but he's here now.
5.
On March 08 2015 22:39 LightningStrike wrote: Just woke up and will answer your question. Tubesock I thinking some resemblances of her last game in Titanic now and Day 1 I had paranoia because before Titanic when I played her she was Mafia and rolled Mafia in another game too. The reason I seeing some resemblances from this game to Titanic because in that game she also was confused on setup stuff esp on the fact we had 2 Jail Keepers ( Nigella in Carol) and she having some confusions this game on setup stuff too. So a slight Town meta read on her.
Onegu since you confirmed town by the Cop Check I will do as you ask just promise me you shoot Geript okay?
HTS Happy Birthday Girl I assuming you going to party for a bit ##Unvote ##Vote: Onegu
LS's scum play is very very non confrontational and he generally gets away pretty well with just asking questions and making excuses for not having strong opinions or posting much. Tends to be very self-conscious in the thread when he rolls scum, which makes it very easy to recognize him
He knows me inside and out :o
But now you're self aware of it and it can't be used anymore
I was just making a point to KSC as to why I didn't think it was fabricated stuff from bugs that's all.
I see that he made a good case on you in a previous game. that wasn't what was fabricated. The content of the post i quoted was weak and fabricated. my mafia sensor went red alert.
Is the vote on Mig by him that making it go red alert or are you sure it's not yellow alert?
it's his bullshit defence of you, his weird fucking "oh be careful i've got my eye on you" crap and then his stupid fucking vote.
since then he read the thread backwards which is usually mafia and he asked some stupid question about how good nydus is on a scale...which is totally pointless and serves no purpose.
He is mafia and you should all vote him.
why does he need to qualify every other word with "fucking" and "stupid"? At this point in the game almost nothing had happened, yet he was already angry.
On May 10 2015 23:09 Stutters695 wrote: Cool, this started. I don't think I've ever done a n0, anything special about it?
Not really except the really strict post restriction.
I can't read the LS post TLDR / conclusions, if any?
KSC: I can sort of agree with the fact that making weird plays (Damdred) more often comes from town. It's just that this assumes that it *was* in fact a prepared play and not to cover up questionable reads. In any case, how exactly did LS's post make you change your read? I at least couldn't really extract anything from it.
well, my initial scum read on him was because the first few posts were terrible and didn't say anything. He said he was going to post in a specific, albeit terrible, way and now he has actually made a contribution to the game I don't have any reason to scumread him anymore.
I'll reevaluate him when he gives more as his post didn't break any new ground, null for now
Where he is actually diplomatically posting and explaining himself instead of just going "well fuck you're dumb" and running his mouth all the time about random shit that he says makes people scum but actually doesn't say anything at all.
Through the course of the game yes - particularly when I was pushing him D2 and after I died, he was calling me scum hardcore (the only one to do so) in that game. You'd have to read either in the obs qt or the post-game but he was particularly noted for being the only one to scumread me all game, that's how he stuck out that game.
Also Kels, I find it interesting you pulled that up because in this game he's saying
On May 10 2015 21:24 LightningStrike wrote:
[...]
I remember HTS overreacting to my opening post in Newbie LX and everyone talked about it so it could be alignment indicative for her O_o[spoiler]
[...]
He's saying that because I was scum in Newbie LX, that my opening this game could be alignment indicative.
Though that still raises an interesting point.
Why does he say "alignment indicative" instead of straight up calling me scummy or leaning scum on me?
ah ok I get what you're saying now. you're saying he should very much be calling you scum or town because of the previous game in which you were scum. I thought you were saying at the beginning of that game he called you scum which isn't how I read it. LS has been pretty all over the place so far , kind of looks like floundering scum, pressured into a read and shows a bit of push back calling HTS scum, then instantly retracting and now calling her town.
On May 11 2015 02:13 Xatalos wrote: How is her entrance scum-specific exactly? Does she open some way as scum, not as town?
Wait I retracting I had misread it she done this type of entrance as town just been a while since she did (Titanic) sorry about that HTS just bleed town for me please? <3
Right -.- And what's your read now if we ignore that?
On May 11 2015 03:15 justanothertownie wrote:
On May 11 2015 02:44 marvellosity wrote: ##Vote: BlazingVivax
badass
Not 3P?
Town she had some good large posts on analyzing stuff about GlowingBear and is thinking critically.
so LS do you agree with the analysis that HTS did ?
HTS I also don't like TD , but i don't agree with your reasons. point 1 is kind of meh, if you don't like someone you can give your read and a reason without asking them a question. Point 2 is ok , I sort of think at first glance the argument damdred puts forward looks strong and it certainly comes from a townie place, but is actually weak in retrospect, I definitely think not explaining why the argument is weak is a negative for him. for point 3 I don't know if he blows it out of proportion, he hasn't really pushed any agenda as far as i'm aware.
As i said, he did some stuff I didn't like but nothing like concrete I guess.
Your GB points are interesting but I don't think they make him mafia. You don't have to respond every time someone calls you scum or if someone else doesn't share a scumread with you. I think GB is town for some reason
But I like the effort your putting in and you have pushed some interesting stuff so I like you so far.
And I like this one because he actually comments on LS, who is also in this game we are playing now. Notice the difference here; in Assassination Kelsier actually gives his reasons and asks particular questons. e.g. he points out how he thinks the GB points are interesting but he doesn't think it makes GB mafia.
On June 17 2015 22:51 ShoCkeyy wrote: Alright going to try and get this going here. I don't get why people care so much about activity? It's been known since this forum even started that people lurk and will always lurk. I can't be posting all day and night as some others here cause I own four businesses + consult major businesses. I use mafia as a past time and can post when I have free time. If you like my activity great, if you don't sucks for you. At least I try and help the town win rather than post non-sense and spam up the thread.
@Breshke - It's not that I didn't care about my read, is that every one and their mothers is already giving their read on LS. Why do I need to ask a question that was already answer?
@KSC - I don't get why you think I was going after damdred? It was just an early post to get more info on him and in return he got info out of me. I never even claimed I think he's mafia. If anything, his reads seem town motivated.
The list post I made was just have my notes out early. Today alone is my wife's birthday and I have planned to spend it with her - I even posted before game started I will be active mornings and nights (nights meaning before bed time).
@LS - I have, but I haven't been able to deep dive into them. Currently, I'm basing your posting style to your previous game we played together.
I'll be back at night and post follow up responses. I will also try to respond from my phone if possible.
thanks for your life story and the reasons you play mafia. I'm glad you avoided non-sense and spamming the thread. Congratulations on your wife's birthday.
which is just needlessly antagonistic and goes against what appears to be his normal style as town.
btw another hint to KSC's alignment here appears in one of his scum games
On December 11 2014 01:31 KelsierSC wrote: K idiot proof version.
Kush said sky is blue, wait sky is red. Ff went back to the op and worked shit out and was like, wait Kush there is no way you could believe sky is red, explain. It basically showed ff as really try hard.
I'm ob my phone so cant quote but it did happen.
you need to ask yourself what the fuck I could.gain from heynscrooge claim oh wait don't in terms.of actual game progression.
Look at the attitude he displays in this post and then compare it to the one here. Then compare them both to the town game I referenced earlier, Assassination. Notice the anger in this post.
In one of the games I read he died day 1 but it still appeared that KSC still managed to say shit like this:
On March 06 2015 21:36 KelsierSC wrote: This whole series really pissed me off because it makes no fucking sense. If you are going to "attack" someone you should actually have a decent reason, you can say this is "applying pressure" but firstly. If he is the best player in the thread he isn't going to reveal anything under this pressure. And also YOU ARE TELLING HIM IT IS JUST PRESSURE which removes the point entirely. He also throws in a line about HF being the best player which feels like a butter up.
And again you can see the difference in tone between KSC's scum and town games. Here he is all-capsing stuff and saying "oh it pissed me off because it makes no fucking sense" when as in his town performance in Assassination you rarely if ever see him say things like this.
On June 18 2015 04:35 VayneAuthority wrote: you know kelsier gets banned on tl like every month right WBG? the guy is just an angry man
that's good to know. Interestingly doesn't that mean he would be good at faking being angry as scum? I legitimately don't believe he is actually this angry in this game, he doesn't have any good reasons to be. And as I said when I read Assassination I did not see anything of the sort of behaviour he is expressing here. In that game despite seemingly having weird opinions he was more diplomatic and actually provided specificity to his reasoning.
On June 18 2015 04:09 Onegu wrote: Just saw something.
Going to PLynch LS. Going to do so every single time he claims blue in thread. Until he stops doing it.
##Vote: LightningStrike
You would rather lynch town than scum? Clearly you going for the most antitown move by lynching blue.
yo, you're a self proclaimed meta master. How would you describe KSC's play as scum vs town?
When I had played vs his scum he was more of a blue hunter than this (Carol of the Bells) but that was the only time I faced his scum. Although I can see him as a frustrated town more than anything due to the state of the thread but he normally much more calm as town O_o I still think Shockeyy can flip scum and thus would rather lynch Shockeyy.
is what VA said true? Does he get mad a lot even as town?
On June 18 2015 04:09 Onegu wrote: Just saw something.
Going to PLynch LS. Going to do so every single time he claims blue in thread. Until he stops doing it.
##Vote: LightningStrike
You would rather lynch town than scum? Clearly you going for the most antitown move by lynching blue.
Dont care, I have told you already if you claim blue again for shit reasons I will PLynch you. So Im going to push it.
On June 18 2015 04:36 Onegu wrote: Thought you learned your lesson after Assassination Mafia, guess I was wrong. Plus you could be scum because that claim was shit.
you should get the award for worst reason to vote someone 2015
On June 18 2015 04:44 Onegu wrote: Look I have talked to LS about this multiple times. Told him how bad it is. Rsoul has done the same thing. He recently did it in a game where scum could shoot blues if they knew what they are. I scum read him in that game for doing something so stupid.
If talking isnt going to make him learn his lesson this maybe this will.
LS needs to be lynched to save future games from his stupidity.
which team are you batting for anyway?
who the fuck cares if it's a bad play? Bad plays don't make people scum. In fact, this single action is probably the towniest thing anyone has done in the game yet, ESPECIALLY coming from a player with such weak scum play as LS. If you can't understand this then you are arguably 10 times worse than however bad you think LS is. Bad scum don't want attention, and this is probably the biggest attention-grabbing move anyone could ever make.
On June 18 2015 04:38 GlowingBear wrote: Ok I'm voting LS too
wtf why are you jumping so hard on this opportunity to lynch an obvious townie
are you scum again?
Explain to me why he is obvious townie Explain to me why obvious townie would claim named VT when, well, he is obvious townie?
he wasn't necessarily obvious townie prior to the claim but any and all doubts should have been erased to people who understand the slightest thing when it comes to town/mafia motivation when he ended up claiming.
He had 1 vote and was in no serious threat of being lynched and yet he blue claimed on day 1. What kind of scum move would that be? It literally makes 0 sense from a scum perspective, especially when we all know how bad LS's scum play is.
On June 18 2015 04:38 GlowingBear wrote: Ok I'm voting LS too
wtf why are you jumping so hard on this opportunity to lynch an obvious townie
are you scum again?
Explain to me why he is obvious townie Explain to me why obvious townie would claim named VT when, well, he is obvious townie?
he wasn't necessarily obvious townie prior to the claim but any and all doubts should have been erased to people who understand the slightest thing when it comes to town/mafia motivation when he ended up claiming.
He had 1 vote and was in no serious threat of being lynched and yet he blue claimed on day 1. What kind of scum move would that be? It literally makes 0 sense from a scum perspective, especially when we all know how bad LS's scum play is.
You say too dumb to be scum.
They say too anti-town to be town.
Onegu says stop doing this, going to lynch you every time.
people say "too anti-town to be town" when they really mean "I think that play was stupid and you deserve to die for it"
That kind of mentality literally ignores all possible motivational reads because it doesn't involve motivation at all and is simply a surface-level misinterpretation of what is going on. Try to think through it from the perspective of LS being scum and it makes no sense at all for him to do that
and my read on him is not a "too dumb to be scum" thing which falls into the same category as what I described. It is dumb, but you need to ignore the fact that it is a dumb play. Dumb plays are normally not alignment indicative. It's the fact that the play attracts attention that is important. A claim day 1 attracts too much attention to ever be made by scum. Scum counter claim and make claims in situations where they absolutely have to in order to win. When they don't they've usually made a huge mistake and they often get punished really hard for it. If LS were scum here he'd know that a fake claim on day 1 would cause him to take a lot of attention and he'd never do that because his style is to slide by without actually doing anything or taking any attention.
To call him scum for a play that is quite literally antithetical to his playstyle is quite possibly dumber than the play he did himself.
On June 18 2015 04:54 GlowingBear wrote: Alright bugs, could we lynch VA?
no, not right now. His last post here was enough for me to give him a slide:
On June 18 2015 04:47 VayneAuthority wrote: Alright on kelsier read this. I was mafia he was town and we conceded that game and he still had a 22 page filter, mostly the beginning is important
While I think he is wrong on Kelsier he actually took some time to substantiate his counter point to me which I don't think scum would do that fast and on demand
On June 18 2015 04:38 GlowingBear wrote: Ok I'm voting LS too
wtf why are you jumping so hard on this opportunity to lynch an obvious townie
are you scum again?
Explain to me why he is obvious townie Explain to me why obvious townie would claim named VT when, well, he is obvious townie?
he wasn't necessarily obvious townie prior to the claim but any and all doubts should have been erased to people who understand the slightest thing when it comes to town/mafia motivation when he ended up claiming.
He had 1 vote and was in no serious threat of being lynched and yet he blue claimed on day 1. What kind of scum move would that be? It literally makes 0 sense from a scum perspective, especially when we all know how bad LS's scum play is.
You say too dumb to be scum.
They say too anti-town to be town.
Onegu says stop doing this, going to lynch you every time.
people say "too anti-town to be town" when they really mean "I think that play was stupid and you deserve to die for it"
That kind of mentality literally ignores all possible motivational reads because it doesn't involve motivation at all and is simply a surface-level misinterpretation of what is going on. Try to think through it from the perspective of LS being scum and it makes no sense at all for him to do that
This is coming from a brain of someone who claimed jk or rb on day 1 with 2 votes on him; so the fact that you seem to think you have some level of comprehension of his thought process astounds me. Also, you're way too dismissive of other people's arguments; I can see why people fight with you.
But let me place you in a stupid scenario where he can be mafia: LS's brain: "Oh hey, you know what would be trixxy? I claim blue day 1 a bunch so it is kinda in my meta now. Oh hey look there is named VT in this game, man maybe I should wifom bomb and ride my meta by fake claiming a blue day 1; they'll totally write it off as me being dumb again"
Wow look, I imagined a scenario where he could be mafia! Do I think it is likely the case? No he is probably town. Do I want to lynch him for his play? Yeah, kinda.
don't tell me what I do and do not know. The simple fact is that if I actually believed LS were scum right now I'd be tunneling the shit out of him, and he'd most probably flip red. I read enough of his games and I saw his play in the previous game and it is enough for me to be confident on this read. If he's done it before then that's literally another point in his favour. As scum to understand that such a play would attract attention and then do it anyway is so ballsy that I don't think even the best scum would even consider it.
The latter half of your post is just fitting a whimsical scenario to this read that LS is scum. You don't come to a conclusion first and then attempt to explain it later, that's not how scumhunting works. That's basically the definition of confirmation bias.
On June 18 2015 04:54 wherebugsgo wrote: and my read on him is not a "too dumb to be scum" thing which falls into the same category as what I described. It is dumb, but you need to ignore the fact that it is a dumb play. Dumb plays are normally not alignment indicative. It's the fact that the play attracts attention that is important. A claim day 1 attracts too much attention to ever be made by scum. Scum counter claim and make claims in situations where they absolutely have to in order to win. When they don't they've usually made a huge mistake and they often get punished really hard for it. If LS were scum here he'd know that a fake claim on day 1 would cause him to take a lot of attention and he'd never do that because his style is to slide by without actually doing anything or taking any attention.
To call him scum for a play that is quite literally antithetical to his playstyle is quite possibly dumber than the play he did himself.
What if I say that claiming a blue role with little pressure is his scum meta?
If you're saying that you are truly terrible as town. He didn't do that last game and I didn't see him do that in the games that I read. If he has done it as scum before then it's probably complete coincidence, because the claim itself is not alignment indicative.
I don't know how many different ways I can say this but surface-level things are not indicators of anything. Stop using them in shitty ways to confirm your own biases.
On June 18 2015 04:54 GlowingBear wrote: Alright bugs, could we lynch VA?
no, not right now. His last post here was enough for me to give him a slide:
On June 18 2015 04:47 VayneAuthority wrote: Alright on kelsier read this. I was mafia he was town and we conceded that game and he still had a 22 page filter, mostly the beginning is important
While I think he is wrong on Kelsier he actually took some time to substantiate his counter point to me which I don't think scum would do that fast and on demand
He linked an old game filter, in which VA was playing, I think, and that's Kelsier's first game.
This is very easy to do as scum.
yeah, that's a good point, and it's partly the reason I don't really agree with him. And you're right in that he didn't actually give me any specificity, just a link to a filter. I don't feel strongly about VA tbh.
okay, whatever...I think I've beaten my point to death and KSC continues to do fuck all except insist that LS is scum. I doubt he is even reading anything at this point, which basically confirms him as mafia.
I'm on page 56 atm, GB you asked me about Breshke. I think he looks fine, his play this game has so far to me seemed very similar to his play from last game. He's making sense and I think from seeing his play we can determine if he is scum from the quality of his posts and reads. If his reads in hindsight over the days start making less sense then I would say he's not likely to be town but so far I have found myself nodding when reading his posts. That is not a thing I do very often, most of the time I am shaking my head and going "wtf is this dude thinking" when I read some of the shit people write
Lohengramm you should tell us who you are. I hate replacements and since you're a smurf you're either good or terrible. Alternatively you can just prove to us that you're not terrible but I really doubt you're going to do that given how sparse your posts have already been, judging from your filter.
Alright I managed to finish reading...Mig I want to know your read on Damdred right now. You prodded him for reads earlier but I am interested in knowing how his response to you affected your read of him.
Next, can someone kindly explain the BF case to me? Even after having read the entire thread I can't for the life of me understand why people are calling him scum. This is worrying, given that in my own notes I have him leaning fairly townish. On the other hand I can summarize the posts on LS because I think that there were more people to call him scum at various points and he did have the named VT claim, but I really really doubt he is scum.
I'm phone posting right now and I quoted NHM's post to get this reply so I can't really quote anything else but I would actually rather not lynch either of these dudes but instead lynch Kelsier or GB. Kelsier kinda disappeared after a while and although he had one response to me in which he calmed down and attempted to explain his reads he didn't quite do anything in the mean time. That's quite strange given that as town I would have expected him to continue pushing LS if he truly felt so strongly about it. It is very clear there is at least some resistance to LS since he's not even the vote leader angmore, so why is KSC not pushing him as he was earlier? To me that seems really fishy, like he feels he did enough earlier on and now he can slip by.
Then there's GB, who continually does weird things that are very hard for me to explain from a town perspective. The mkst obvious one to me was that it sounded like he wanted to work with me and bounce ideas off me. At first I gave him tentative town points for that on the condition that he actually follown up and make use of my offer. What instead happened is that GB's post quality started declining, and despite me asking him hey why don't we discuss stuff he only asked me one thing which now to me I can't even recall because it seemed so insignificant. Why as town would GB state that he wants to know my reads and then make almost no effort to get them from me? Indeed one thing that HF pointed out is actually really damning and that is the fact that at some point GB refused to give out hisnown reads and he "chastised" me for doing the exact same thing. That's a very scummy thing for someone who thinks giving out reads as town is a good thing.
Finally this could be completely irrelevant but the way he "dares" people to call him scum in some of his posts (by saying "Am I scum?" for whatever reason to me comes off as really forced. It's true that scum would be wary of clashing attitudes but even in the last game GB showed awareness of common scum tropes and took advantage of that, e.g. defending his buddy when he knew it was likely to cause him to take a lot of attention.
On June 18 2015 13:24 NydusHerMain wrote: Curious bugs. Knowing I'm not a smurf, would you rate me as a better player
Idk regardless of your alignment this game you appear to post better than at least half of the playerbase
Re: LS, I didn't defend LS prior to the claim because I myself was unsure of his alignment at that point. To me he seemed townish but my reasons were not very well qualified and it was mostly on the basis of him not acting in a very similar way to how he did in the last game where he was scum and we got him killed day 1. Indeed here his defense is a lot more passioned whereas in the previous game and in all the other scum games I read in which he got lynched he more or less rolled over and died.
The claim however pretty much instantly erased any doubts I had and that's when I chose to defend him because I knee jubjubs and scum would jump all over that shit to call him scum. The two worst responses IMO were yours and GB, and to a lesser extent Onegu whose only listed reason for voting was policy. IMO people who do not view that claim as a townish thing to do are either mafia or bad, and I really prefer not to assume someone is bad town when they have demonstrated some capability of thinking analytically.
GB's reaction to the claim was really terrible. He flipped his read on LS completely which is not what I would expect town to do simply on the basis of a claim. It also appeared very opportunistic because as soon as I showed resistance he backed off, and curiously tried to get my opinion on another low-hanging-fruit of a player, VA.
What's interesting to me here is that the more that I think on kt and write it out the more I find GB scummy than anyone else. Anyone else down to kill him today?
On June 18 2015 22:02 wherebugsgo wrote: Lohengramm you should tell us who you are. I hate replacements and since you're a smurf you're either good or terrible. Alternatively you can just prove to us that you're not terrible but I really doubt you're going to do that given how sparse your posts have already been, judging from your filter.
Also another thing I want to point out that is subtle but was missing from his posts last game is that LS clearly demonstrates an escalation of emotion as more and more people suspect him. Last game his self defense sucked because his emotion was flat the entire time he was eating votes. Here he actually legitimately appears to be getting more frustrated as people call him scum. Not only does this make sense from his perspective if he is town, it's one of those things I would put in the "near impossible" tier as far as fakeability when scum.
That's prob enough to remove lohen from my d1 list as a replacement though
Do I have to vote you wbg to get you to answer my questions on your read change? I'd rather not cause while I disagree strongly on ksc, your points on gb were decent
Also at all you lovelies wanting to kill someone you think is town...isn't that what like cop/vig roles are for? Would make more sense if most people thought he was scum don't really get it
Also just random thought...I figured out what's bugging me about damdy. Tells ls he's got his back but doesn't really marry actions to words. Tryna decide if that's just cause he's upset about his case being ignored or not though
I don't have the time to answer your questions about townreads, in particular my change on you because to me they're irrelevant and not worth the time. In fact, even this to me is a waste of time because I can't believe that I am actually arguing about this. You even considering wasting a vote to get that kind of information to me is really puzzling because I can't see in which world any of that information would be useful to you.
Vote me if you think I am scum, but don't act like any other reason would be a valid one.
On June 18 2015 22:55 wherebugsgo wrote: I see I have been ninjaed.
Re: LS, I didn't defend LS prior to the claim because I myself was unsure of his alignment at that point. To me he seemed townish but my reasons were not very well qualified and it was mostly on the basis of him not acting in a very similar way to how he did in the last game where he was scum and we got him killed day 1. Indeed here his defense is a lot more passioned whereas in the previous game and in all the other scum games I read in which he got lynched he more or less rolled over and died.
The claim however pretty much instantly erased any doubts I had and that's when I chose to defend him because I knee jubjubs and scum would jump all over that shit to call him scum. The two worst responses IMO were yours and GB, and to a lesser extent Onegu whose only listed reason for voting was policy. IMO people who do not view that claim as a townish thing to do are either mafia or bad, and I really prefer not to assume someone is bad town when they have demonstrated some capability of thinking analytically.
GB's reaction to the claim was really terrible. He flipped his read on LS completely which is not what I would expect town to do simply on the basis of a claim. It also appeared very opportunistic because as soon as I showed resistance he backed off, and curiously tried to get my opinion on another low-hanging-fruit of a player, VA.
What's interesting to me here is that the more that I think on kt and write it out the more I find GB scummy than anyone else. Anyone else down to kill him today?
so you were unsure of LS aswell and I was pushing him hard calling him scum. Then when he makes a horrible claim you are surprised that I still think he is scum? You also said that I "didn't quite do anything else" and I "kinda disappeared" I explained I was looking at other people in the game at that point but I didn't leave anyone in doubt what I felt about LS. Can you actually explain what you mean by this in a more concrete way without hedging
Why is it that every time you post something in response to someone you manage to mangle or misread it completely?
Just because I said I was unsure on LS prior to the claim it does not mean I found him scummy. You say he made a horrible claim, which I agree. The fact that you think it is alignment indicative (of LS being scum, no less) is the reason I think you are scum. Your only reasoning for the claim being indicative of LS being scum is "horrible" while I have consistently pointed out why it makes no sense from a scum PERSPECTIVE. You are obviously not this stupid so my best assumption here is that you are purposely choosing to refuse to back down because you are scum and flipping your read at this point would be too dangerous. That also makes sense in the context of the fact that you are not actually really pushing LS as I would expect a townie to push him. That's what I mean by you didn't do anything and that you disappeared, because for a long time you were not in thread, and as BF has gained more suspicion you haven't done anything to convince other people that they should vote LS over BF. Unless of course you think they are both scum, which I think is preposterous in itself.
On June 18 2015 23:07 rsoultin wrote: Hey wbg on phone and no comp access till much later. Show me the read.change from gb i'm quotes please?
His last scum game he was very focused on others reads on him as well and I was getting deja vu yesterday but a read switch would be much more damning I think
Take a look at this:
On June 17 2015 07:42 GlowingBear wrote: The SUPER AWESOME PRELIMINARY READS LIST REGARDING THE FIRST 3 PAGES OF THE THREAD
Probs town LS Nydus
Probs mafai Boxerfred Onegu
Yeah. This little.
One of his first posts, it appears he felt pretty strongly about LS early on because he was one of the only players he bothered posting about.
And again, not too long after:
On June 17 2015 08:52 GlowingBear wrote: ANOTHER PRELIMINARY READ LIST OF THE FIRST HOURS OF THE GAME
Probs town Kelsier Breshke LS Nydus(?)
Probs mafai Onegu Boxerfred Bugs Ritoky
Someone I want to spank for treating me bad Rsoultin
On June 17 2015 11:51 GlowingBear wrote:
Actual Listpost v1.0
Probs town ...
LS (a lot of activity early game, enough to grant him a day1 pass IMO)
... Probs Mafia
Onegu (unnecessary need to claim VT ESPECIALLY after he was scumread for not claiming VT in a previous game + meta: town onegu is lazy and I don't see him giving himself the trouble to going into another game to paste an opening where he claimed VT as town + Onegu prefers playing as scum and he was too excited for rolling VT, meanwhile in the other game he was extremely upset he rolled VT)
boxerfred (opening is a joke post commenting another joke post and fucking off of the thread)
boxerfred
The interesting thing here is that he has onegu and LS on opposite sides, yet he doesn't react to onegu voting LS later...
then, after the claim:
On June 18 2015 04:38 GlowingBear wrote: Ok I'm voting LS too
as soon as I start defending him right then and there really hard, GB does this:
On June 18 2015 04:38 GlowingBear wrote: Ok I'm voting LS too
wtf why are you jumping so hard on this opportunity to lynch an obvious townie
are you scum again?
Explain to me why he is obvious townie Explain to me why obvious townie would claim named VT when, well, he is obvious townie?
he wasn't necessarily obvious townie prior to the claim but any and all doubts should have been erased to people who understand the slightest thing when it comes to town/mafia motivation when he ended up claiming.
He had 1 vote and was in no serious threat of being lynched and yet he blue claimed on day 1. What kind of scum move would that be? It literally makes 0 sense from a scum perspective, especially when we all know how bad LS's scum play is.
You say too dumb to be scum.
They say too anti-town to be town.
Onegu says stop doing this, going to lynch you every time.
people say "too anti-town to be town" when they really mean "I think that play was stupid and you deserve to die for it"
That kind of mentality literally ignores all possible motivational reads because it doesn't involve motivation at all and is simply a surface-level misinterpretation of what is going on. Try to think through it from the perspective of LS being scum and it makes no sense at all for him to do that
I can see scum LS panicking when a single vote is casted on him and claiming named VT because this role has no night power (easy to claim) and it's not a common role (low chances of counter claiming)
It doesn't make sense from a town perspective either.
and then finally he does this:
On June 18 2015 04:54 GlowingBear wrote: Alright bugs, could we lynch VA?
He also said some lie about blue claiming being in LS's meta which he claimed was some sort of test for what my response would be but it seemed forced to me.
On June 18 2015 23:13 rsoultin wrote: God im scattered today sorry.
Also read on mig wbg since you know him better and wanted him to post. I'm a sucker for logic. Can he post like this as scum?
Mig is pretty terrible as scum and a couple of his posts are actually pretty decent. They appear to be indicative that he is actually reading, which is a good sign.
Mig is one of those players where if it looks like he is not reading he's probably scum. Even though he doesn't post much, as town he tends to make sense whereas when he is scum his reads aren't generally logically sensible. For example he pointed out that GB had no proper scum reads 55 pages in which is actually a pretty astute and subtle point. Like, sure, GB called some people scum but at no point in the game did he actually do anything about them-most of the time he's fishing for sentiment (e.g. asking me about VA) and in the LS case he was like "ok I'm gonna vote him too" and then he backed off at resistance from me.
The tone and attitude in this post:
On June 18 2015 08:37 Mig wrote: Gbs plan is to try and look scummy, contribute nothing and then if you discuss anyone besides him calls you suspicious. Solid.
Do you actually believe any of my posts are coming from a mafia mindset Gb? Or are you just trying to paint me poorly since I actually questioned your posts.
also made me feel much better about Mig because as I mentioned his mafia play is pretty shitty and this came off really strongly. I don't think scum Mig would make a post with this kind of bold response.
I don't think LS or BF is a good lynch for today. LS is definitely among the worst possible lynches we could have and it doesn't appear to me that there are good reasons to lynch BF. You all should read my posts on GB in the past few pages.
I also think KSC could be scum still but I'm less confident on my rereads than GB because GB has demonstrated some really strange behaviour with respect to his "reads" and the way he handled things like the LS claim, my defense of it, and his fishing for sentiment on lynching low hanging fruit like VA, Lohengramm, and Shockeyy.
anyway sorry rsoultin, I don't mean to be antagonistic. However i don't think divulging a lot of town reads is a good idea. I'm okay with specific questions (e.g. the one on Mig) but things like "why did you flip your read on me" are not things I'm going to bother to answer because sometimes I don't have great reasons that can be externalized. On reread I actually see that you probably have some of the same sentiment, since you had that toneread on Damdred that I didn't quite understand and you didn't really feel like explaining either.
Since we appear to have some similar mindsets maybe it's best we work together.
That's prob enough to remove lohen from my d1 list as a replacement though
Do I have to vote you wbg to get you to answer my questions on your read change? I'd rather not cause while I disagree strongly on ksc, your points on gb were decent
Also at all you lovelies wanting to kill someone you think is town...isn't that what like cop/vig roles are for? Would make more sense if most people thought he was scum don't really get it
Also just random thought...I figured out what's bugging me about damdy. Tells ls he's got his back but doesn't really marry actions to words. Tryna decide if that's just cause he's upset about his case being ignored or not though
I don't have the time to answer your questions about townreads, in particular my change on you because to me they're irrelevant and not worth the time. In fact, even this to me is a waste of time because I can't believe that I am actually arguing about this. You even considering wasting a vote to get that kind of information to me is really puzzling because I can't see in which world any of that information would be useful to you.
Vote me if you think I am scum, but don't act like any other reason would be a valid one.
On June 18 2015 23:00 KelsierSC wrote:
On June 18 2015 22:55 wherebugsgo wrote: I see I have been ninjaed.
Re: LS, I didn't defend LS prior to the claim because I myself was unsure of his alignment at that point. To me he seemed townish but my reasons were not very well qualified and it was mostly on the basis of him not acting in a very similar way to how he did in the last game where he was scum and we got him killed day 1. Indeed here his defense is a lot more passioned whereas in the previous game and in all the other scum games I read in which he got lynched he more or less rolled over and died.
The claim however pretty much instantly erased any doubts I had and that's when I chose to defend him because I knee jubjubs and scum would jump all over that shit to call him scum. The two worst responses IMO were yours and GB, and to a lesser extent Onegu whose only listed reason for voting was policy. IMO people who do not view that claim as a townish thing to do are either mafia or bad, and I really prefer not to assume someone is bad town when they have demonstrated some capability of thinking analytically.
GB's reaction to the claim was really terrible. He flipped his read on LS completely which is not what I would expect town to do simply on the basis of a claim. It also appeared very opportunistic because as soon as I showed resistance he backed off, and curiously tried to get my opinion on another low-hanging-fruit of a player, VA.
What's interesting to me here is that the more that I think on kt and write it out the more I find GB scummy than anyone else. Anyone else down to kill him today?
so you were unsure of LS aswell and I was pushing him hard calling him scum. Then when he makes a horrible claim you are surprised that I still think he is scum? You also said that I "didn't quite do anything else" and I "kinda disappeared" I explained I was looking at other people in the game at that point but I didn't leave anyone in doubt what I felt about LS. Can you actually explain what you mean by this in a more concrete way without hedging
Why is it that every time you post something in response to someone you manage to mangle or misread it completely?
Just because I said I was unsure on LS prior to the claim it does not mean I found him scummy. You say he made a horrible claim, which I agree. The fact that you think it is alignment indicative (of LS being scum, no less) is the reason I think you are scum. Your only reasoning for the claim being indicative of LS being scum is "horrible" while I have consistently pointed out why it makes no sense from a scum PERSPECTIVE. You are obviously not this stupid so my best assumption here is that you are purposely choosing to refuse to back down because you are scum and flipping your read at this point would be too dangerous. That also makes sense in the context of the fact that you are not actually really pushing LS as I would expect a townie to push him. That's what I mean by you didn't do anything and that you disappeared, because for a long time you were not in thread, and as BF has gained more suspicion you haven't done anything to convince other people that they should vote LS over BF. Unless of course you think they are both scum, which I think is preposterous in itself.
On June 18 2015 23:07 rsoultin wrote: Hey wbg on phone and no comp access till much later. Show me the read.change from gb i'm quotes please?
His last scum game he was very focused on others reads on him as well and I was getting deja vu yesterday but a read switch would be much more damning I think
Take a look at this:
On June 17 2015 07:42 GlowingBear wrote: The SUPER AWESOME PRELIMINARY READS LIST REGARDING THE FIRST 3 PAGES OF THE THREAD
Probs town LS Nydus
Probs mafai Boxerfred Onegu
Yeah. This little.
One of his first posts, it appears he felt pretty strongly about LS early on because he was one of the only players he bothered posting about.
And again, not too long after:
On June 17 2015 08:52 GlowingBear wrote: ANOTHER PRELIMINARY READ LIST OF THE FIRST HOURS OF THE GAME
Probs town Kelsier Breshke LS Nydus(?)
Probs mafai Onegu Boxerfred Bugs Ritoky
Someone I want to spank for treating me bad Rsoultin
On June 17 2015 11:51 GlowingBear wrote:
Actual Listpost v1.0
Probs town ...
LS (a lot of activity early game, enough to grant him a day1 pass IMO)
... Probs Mafia
Onegu (unnecessary need to claim VT ESPECIALLY after he was scumread for not claiming VT in a previous game + meta: town onegu is lazy and I don't see him giving himself the trouble to going into another game to paste an opening where he claimed VT as town + Onegu prefers playing as scum and he was too excited for rolling VT, meanwhile in the other game he was extremely upset he rolled VT)
boxerfred (opening is a joke post commenting another joke post and fucking off of the thread)
boxerfred
The interesting thing here is that he has onegu and LS on opposite sides, yet he doesn't react to onegu voting LS later...
then, after the claim:
On June 18 2015 04:38 GlowingBear wrote: Ok I'm voting LS too
as soon as I start defending him right then and there really hard, GB does this:
On June 18 2015 04:46 GlowingBear wrote:
On June 18 2015 04:41 wherebugsgo wrote:
On June 18 2015 04:38 GlowingBear wrote: Ok I'm voting LS too
wtf why are you jumping so hard on this opportunity to lynch an obvious townie
are you scum again?
Explain to me why he is obvious townie Explain to me why obvious townie would claim named VT when, well, he is obvious townie?
then this, in which he actually doesn't really take an opinion one way or another which to me was pretty strange:
On June 18 2015 04:54 GlowingBear wrote:
On June 18 2015 04:50 wherebugsgo wrote:
On June 18 2015 04:49 ritoky wrote:
On June 18 2015 04:48 wherebugsgo wrote:
On June 18 2015 04:46 GlowingBear wrote:
On June 18 2015 04:41 wherebugsgo wrote:
On June 18 2015 04:38 GlowingBear wrote: Ok I'm voting LS too
wtf why are you jumping so hard on this opportunity to lynch an obvious townie
are you scum again?
Explain to me why he is obvious townie Explain to me why obvious townie would claim named VT when, well, he is obvious townie?
he wasn't necessarily obvious townie prior to the claim but any and all doubts should have been erased to people who understand the slightest thing when it comes to town/mafia motivation when he ended up claiming.
He had 1 vote and was in no serious threat of being lynched and yet he blue claimed on day 1. What kind of scum move would that be? It literally makes 0 sense from a scum perspective, especially when we all know how bad LS's scum play is.
You say too dumb to be scum.
They say too anti-town to be town.
Onegu says stop doing this, going to lynch you every time.
people say "too anti-town to be town" when they really mean "I think that play was stupid and you deserve to die for it"
That kind of mentality literally ignores all possible motivational reads because it doesn't involve motivation at all and is simply a surface-level misinterpretation of what is going on. Try to think through it from the perspective of LS being scum and it makes no sense at all for him to do that
I can see scum LS panicking when a single vote is casted on him and claiming named VT because this role has no night power (easy to claim) and it's not a common role (low chances of counter claiming)
It doesn't make sense from a town perspective either.
and then finally he does this:
On June 18 2015 04:54 GlowingBear wrote: Alright bugs, could we lynch VA?
He also said some lie about blue claiming being in LS's meta which he claimed was some sort of test for what my response would be but it seemed forced to me.
LS's play is what makes him scummy, the claim just furthers that point. I don't see a reason for a town to claim there at all.
That also makes sense in the context of the fact that you are not actually really pushing LS as I would expect a townie to push him. That's what I mean by you didn't do anything and that you disappeared, because for a long time you were not in thread, and as BF has gained more suspicion you haven't done anything to convince other people that they should vote LS over BF. Unless of course you think they are both scum, which I think is preposterous in itself.
You are just making up reason's to scum read me now. I pushed LS very hard and Everyone was aware of that.
The fact that this is your response to my post doesn't look very good for you.
The effort level, the way you are undermining my opinion by saying I am making up reasons, and the fact that you are misconstruing your own effort and claiming that "everyone was aware of it". It seems like you are very self conscious of how other people are "aware" of your pushes. Why would that be the case if you are town?
If you still think LS is scum why are you okay with him not leading and people actually getting off him now?
That's prob enough to remove lohen from my d1 list as a replacement though
Do I have to vote you wbg to get you to answer my questions on your read change? I'd rather not cause while I disagree strongly on ksc, your points on gb were decent
Also at all you lovelies wanting to kill someone you think is town...isn't that what like cop/vig roles are for? Would make more sense if most people thought he was scum don't really get it
Also just random thought...I figured out what's bugging me about damdy. Tells ls he's got his back but doesn't really marry actions to words. Tryna decide if that's just cause he's upset about his case being ignored or not though
I don't have the time to answer your questions about townreads, in particular my change on you because to me they're irrelevant and not worth the time. In fact, even this to me is a waste of time because I can't believe that I am actually arguing about this. You even considering wasting a vote to get that kind of information to me is really puzzling because I can't see in which world any of that information would be useful to you.
Vote me if you think I am scum, but don't act like any other reason would be a valid one.
On June 18 2015 23:00 KelsierSC wrote:
On June 18 2015 22:55 wherebugsgo wrote: I see I have been ninjaed.
Re: LS, I didn't defend LS prior to the claim because I myself was unsure of his alignment at that point. To me he seemed townish but my reasons were not very well qualified and it was mostly on the basis of him not acting in a very similar way to how he did in the last game where he was scum and we got him killed day 1. Indeed here his defense is a lot more passioned whereas in the previous game and in all the other scum games I read in which he got lynched he more or less rolled over and died.
The claim however pretty much instantly erased any doubts I had and that's when I chose to defend him because I knee jubjubs and scum would jump all over that shit to call him scum. The two worst responses IMO were yours and GB, and to a lesser extent Onegu whose only listed reason for voting was policy. IMO people who do not view that claim as a townish thing to do are either mafia or bad, and I really prefer not to assume someone is bad town when they have demonstrated some capability of thinking analytically.
GB's reaction to the claim was really terrible. He flipped his read on LS completely which is not what I would expect town to do simply on the basis of a claim. It also appeared very opportunistic because as soon as I showed resistance he backed off, and curiously tried to get my opinion on another low-hanging-fruit of a player, VA.
What's interesting to me here is that the more that I think on kt and write it out the more I find GB scummy than anyone else. Anyone else down to kill him today?
so you were unsure of LS aswell and I was pushing him hard calling him scum. Then when he makes a horrible claim you are surprised that I still think he is scum? You also said that I "didn't quite do anything else" and I "kinda disappeared" I explained I was looking at other people in the game at that point but I didn't leave anyone in doubt what I felt about LS. Can you actually explain what you mean by this in a more concrete way without hedging
Why is it that every time you post something in response to someone you manage to mangle or misread it completely?
Just because I said I was unsure on LS prior to the claim it does not mean I found him scummy. You say he made a horrible claim, which I agree. The fact that you think it is alignment indicative (of LS being scum, no less) is the reason I think you are scum. Your only reasoning for the claim being indicative of LS being scum is "horrible" while I have consistently pointed out why it makes no sense from a scum PERSPECTIVE. You are obviously not this stupid so my best assumption here is that you are purposely choosing to refuse to back down because you are scum and flipping your read at this point would be too dangerous. That also makes sense in the context of the fact that you are not actually really pushing LS as I would expect a townie to push him. That's what I mean by you didn't do anything and that you disappeared, because for a long time you were not in thread, and as BF has gained more suspicion you haven't done anything to convince other people that they should vote LS over BF. Unless of course you think they are both scum, which I think is preposterous in itself.
On June 18 2015 23:07 rsoultin wrote: Hey wbg on phone and no comp access till much later. Show me the read.change from gb i'm quotes please?
His last scum game he was very focused on others reads on him as well and I was getting deja vu yesterday but a read switch would be much more damning I think
Take a look at this:
On June 17 2015 07:42 GlowingBear wrote: The SUPER AWESOME PRELIMINARY READS LIST REGARDING THE FIRST 3 PAGES OF THE THREAD
Probs town LS Nydus
Probs mafai Boxerfred Onegu
Yeah. This little.
One of his first posts, it appears he felt pretty strongly about LS early on because he was one of the only players he bothered posting about.
And again, not too long after:
On June 17 2015 08:52 GlowingBear wrote: ANOTHER PRELIMINARY READ LIST OF THE FIRST HOURS OF THE GAME
Probs town Kelsier Breshke LS Nydus(?)
Probs mafai Onegu Boxerfred Bugs Ritoky
Someone I want to spank for treating me bad Rsoultin
On June 17 2015 11:51 GlowingBear wrote:
Actual Listpost v1.0
Probs town ...
LS (a lot of activity early game, enough to grant him a day1 pass IMO)
... Probs Mafia
Onegu (unnecessary need to claim VT ESPECIALLY after he was scumread for not claiming VT in a previous game + meta: town onegu is lazy and I don't see him giving himself the trouble to going into another game to paste an opening where he claimed VT as town + Onegu prefers playing as scum and he was too excited for rolling VT, meanwhile in the other game he was extremely upset he rolled VT)
boxerfred (opening is a joke post commenting another joke post and fucking off of the thread)
boxerfred
The interesting thing here is that he has onegu and LS on opposite sides, yet he doesn't react to onegu voting LS later...
then, after the claim:
On June 18 2015 04:38 GlowingBear wrote: Ok I'm voting LS too
as soon as I start defending him right then and there really hard, GB does this:
On June 18 2015 04:46 GlowingBear wrote:
On June 18 2015 04:41 wherebugsgo wrote:
On June 18 2015 04:38 GlowingBear wrote: Ok I'm voting LS too
wtf why are you jumping so hard on this opportunity to lynch an obvious townie
are you scum again?
Explain to me why he is obvious townie Explain to me why obvious townie would claim named VT when, well, he is obvious townie?
then this, in which he actually doesn't really take an opinion one way or another which to me was pretty strange:
On June 18 2015 04:54 GlowingBear wrote:
On June 18 2015 04:50 wherebugsgo wrote:
On June 18 2015 04:49 ritoky wrote:
On June 18 2015 04:48 wherebugsgo wrote:
On June 18 2015 04:46 GlowingBear wrote:
On June 18 2015 04:41 wherebugsgo wrote: [quote]
wtf why are you jumping so hard on this opportunity to lynch an obvious townie
are you scum again?
Explain to me why he is obvious townie Explain to me why obvious townie would claim named VT when, well, he is obvious townie?
he wasn't necessarily obvious townie prior to the claim but any and all doubts should have been erased to people who understand the slightest thing when it comes to town/mafia motivation when he ended up claiming.
He had 1 vote and was in no serious threat of being lynched and yet he blue claimed on day 1. What kind of scum move would that be? It literally makes 0 sense from a scum perspective, especially when we all know how bad LS's scum play is.
You say too dumb to be scum.
They say too anti-town to be town.
Onegu says stop doing this, going to lynch you every time.
people say "too anti-town to be town" when they really mean "I think that play was stupid and you deserve to die for it"
That kind of mentality literally ignores all possible motivational reads because it doesn't involve motivation at all and is simply a surface-level misinterpretation of what is going on. Try to think through it from the perspective of LS being scum and it makes no sense at all for him to do that
I can see scum LS panicking when a single vote is casted on him and claiming named VT because this role has no night power (easy to claim) and it's not a common role (low chances of counter claiming)
It doesn't make sense from a town perspective either.
and then finally he does this:
On June 18 2015 04:54 GlowingBear wrote: Alright bugs, could we lynch VA?
He also said some lie about blue claiming being in LS's meta which he claimed was some sort of test for what my response would be but it seemed forced to me.
LS's play is what makes him scummy, the claim just furthers that point. I don't see a reason for a town to claim there at all.
That also makes sense in the context of the fact that you are not actually really pushing LS as I would expect a townie to push him. That's what I mean by you didn't do anything and that you disappeared, because for a long time you were not in thread, and as BF has gained more suspicion you haven't done anything to convince other people that they should vote LS over BF. Unless of course you think they are both scum, which I think is preposterous in itself.
You are just making up reason's to scum read me now. I pushed LS very hard and Everyone was aware of that.
The fact that this is your response to my post doesn't look very good for you.
The effort level, the way you are undermining my opinion by saying I am making up reasons, and the fact that you are misconstruing your own effort and claiming that "everyone was aware of it". It seems like you are very self conscious of how other people are "aware" of your pushes. Why would that be the case if you are town?
If you still think LS is scum why are you okay with him not leading and people actually getting off him now?
are you trying to claim my effort level is low?
i'm interacting with you right now because I asked you questions and waited for you to show up.
your effort level in responding to me sucks. You choose to misconstrue my posts and in the previous one you picked out only the fact that I said I was unsure instead of reading the rest of the part in which I explained how I had LS leaning town before the claim and why the claim is not an indicator that he is scum. You don't bother addressing any of that.
Your followup on my questions to me doesn't appear to be town motivated because I would expect a townie to at least attempt to understand what I am saying. Instead all you do is undermine my opinions.
On June 18 2015 23:36 KelsierSC wrote: As far as i'm aware your scum read of me is because when my scum read, that I had been pushing really hard, made a stupid claim ,that didn't make sense as town, I carried on reading him as scum
then you made false statements that I stopped trying and didn't carry on pushing LS
you are desperately trying to paint scum on me and it just isn't working.
nope
you constantly are calling "stupid claim = scum claim" which is NOT ALIGNMENT INDICATIVE
the fact that you are not ever noticing I am saying that over and over again and not even responding to it is setting off the alarm for me. Instead you constantly say shit like "you're desperately trying to call me scum" and "you made false statements" and "everyone knows I was pushing him" which are all simply things said to undermine an opinion and not indicators in the slightest that you are town and are attempting to analyze this situation from that perspective. Any townie in such a position would have some doubt and not immediately undermine another player's perspective when they offer a counterpoint.
That's prob enough to remove lohen from my d1 list as a replacement though
Do I have to vote you wbg to get you to answer my questions on your read change? I'd rather not cause while I disagree strongly on ksc, your points on gb were decent
Also at all you lovelies wanting to kill someone you think is town...isn't that what like cop/vig roles are for? Would make more sense if most people thought he was scum don't really get it
Also just random thought...I figured out what's bugging me about damdy. Tells ls he's got his back but doesn't really marry actions to words. Tryna decide if that's just cause he's upset about his case being ignored or not though
I don't have the time to answer your questions about townreads, in particular my change on you because to me they're irrelevant and not worth the time. In fact, even this to me is a waste of time because I can't believe that I am actually arguing about this. You even considering wasting a vote to get that kind of information to me is really puzzling because I can't see in which world any of that information would be useful to you.
Vote me if you think I am scum, but don't act like any other reason would be a valid one.
On June 18 2015 23:00 KelsierSC wrote:
On June 18 2015 22:55 wherebugsgo wrote: I see I have been ninjaed.
Re: LS, I didn't defend LS prior to the claim because I myself was unsure of his alignment at that point. To me he seemed townish but my reasons were not very well qualified and it was mostly on the basis of him not acting in a very similar way to how he did in the last game where he was scum and we got him killed day 1. Indeed here his defense is a lot more passioned whereas in the previous game and in all the other scum games I read in which he got lynched he more or less rolled over and died.
The claim however pretty much instantly erased any doubts I had and that's when I chose to defend him because I knee jubjubs and scum would jump all over that shit to call him scum. The two worst responses IMO were yours and GB, and to a lesser extent Onegu whose only listed reason for voting was policy. IMO people who do not view that claim as a townish thing to do are either mafia or bad, and I really prefer not to assume someone is bad town when they have demonstrated some capability of thinking analytically.
GB's reaction to the claim was really terrible. He flipped his read on LS completely which is not what I would expect town to do simply on the basis of a claim. It also appeared very opportunistic because as soon as I showed resistance he backed off, and curiously tried to get my opinion on another low-hanging-fruit of a player, VA.
What's interesting to me here is that the more that I think on kt and write it out the more I find GB scummy than anyone else. Anyone else down to kill him today?
so you were unsure of LS aswell and I was pushing him hard calling him scum. Then when he makes a horrible claim you are surprised that I still think he is scum? You also said that I "didn't quite do anything else" and I "kinda disappeared" I explained I was looking at other people in the game at that point but I didn't leave anyone in doubt what I felt about LS. Can you actually explain what you mean by this in a more concrete way without hedging
Why is it that every time you post something in response to someone you manage to mangle or misread it completely?
Just because I said I was unsure on LS prior to the claim it does not mean I found him scummy. You say he made a horrible claim, which I agree. The fact that you think it is alignment indicative (of LS being scum, no less) is the reason I think you are scum. Your only reasoning for the claim being indicative of LS being scum is "horrible" while I have consistently pointed out why it makes no sense from a scum PERSPECTIVE. You are obviously not this stupid so my best assumption here is that you are purposely choosing to refuse to back down because you are scum and flipping your read at this point would be too dangerous. That also makes sense in the context of the fact that you are not actually really pushing LS as I would expect a townie to push him. That's what I mean by you didn't do anything and that you disappeared, because for a long time you were not in thread, and as BF has gained more suspicion you haven't done anything to convince other people that they should vote LS over BF. Unless of course you think they are both scum, which I think is preposterous in itself.
On June 18 2015 23:07 rsoultin wrote: Hey wbg on phone and no comp access till much later. Show me the read.change from gb i'm quotes please?
His last scum game he was very focused on others reads on him as well and I was getting deja vu yesterday but a read switch would be much more damning I think
Take a look at this:
On June 17 2015 07:42 GlowingBear wrote: The SUPER AWESOME PRELIMINARY READS LIST REGARDING THE FIRST 3 PAGES OF THE THREAD
Probs town LS Nydus
Probs mafai Boxerfred Onegu
Yeah. This little.
One of his first posts, it appears he felt pretty strongly about LS early on because he was one of the only players he bothered posting about.
And again, not too long after:
On June 17 2015 08:52 GlowingBear wrote: ANOTHER PRELIMINARY READ LIST OF THE FIRST HOURS OF THE GAME
Probs town Kelsier Breshke LS Nydus(?)
Probs mafai Onegu Boxerfred Bugs Ritoky
Someone I want to spank for treating me bad Rsoultin
On June 17 2015 11:51 GlowingBear wrote:
Actual Listpost v1.0
Probs town ...
LS (a lot of activity early game, enough to grant him a day1 pass IMO)
... Probs Mafia
Onegu (unnecessary need to claim VT ESPECIALLY after he was scumread for not claiming VT in a previous game + meta: town onegu is lazy and I don't see him giving himself the trouble to going into another game to paste an opening where he claimed VT as town + Onegu prefers playing as scum and he was too excited for rolling VT, meanwhile in the other game he was extremely upset he rolled VT)
boxerfred (opening is a joke post commenting another joke post and fucking off of the thread)
boxerfred
The interesting thing here is that he has onegu and LS on opposite sides, yet he doesn't react to onegu voting LS later...
then, after the claim:
On June 18 2015 04:38 GlowingBear wrote: Ok I'm voting LS too
as soon as I start defending him right then and there really hard, GB does this:
On June 18 2015 04:46 GlowingBear wrote:
On June 18 2015 04:41 wherebugsgo wrote:
On June 18 2015 04:38 GlowingBear wrote: Ok I'm voting LS too
wtf why are you jumping so hard on this opportunity to lynch an obvious townie
are you scum again?
Explain to me why he is obvious townie Explain to me why obvious townie would claim named VT when, well, he is obvious townie?
then this, in which he actually doesn't really take an opinion one way or another which to me was pretty strange:
On June 18 2015 04:54 GlowingBear wrote:
On June 18 2015 04:50 wherebugsgo wrote:
On June 18 2015 04:49 ritoky wrote:
On June 18 2015 04:48 wherebugsgo wrote: [quote]
he wasn't necessarily obvious townie prior to the claim but any and all doubts should have been erased to people who understand the slightest thing when it comes to town/mafia motivation when he ended up claiming.
He had 1 vote and was in no serious threat of being lynched and yet he blue claimed on day 1. What kind of scum move would that be? It literally makes 0 sense from a scum perspective, especially when we all know how bad LS's scum play is.
You say too dumb to be scum.
They say too anti-town to be town.
Onegu says stop doing this, going to lynch you every time.
people say "too anti-town to be town" when they really mean "I think that play was stupid and you deserve to die for it"
That kind of mentality literally ignores all possible motivational reads because it doesn't involve motivation at all and is simply a surface-level misinterpretation of what is going on. Try to think through it from the perspective of LS being scum and it makes no sense at all for him to do that
I can see scum LS panicking when a single vote is casted on him and claiming named VT because this role has no night power (easy to claim) and it's not a common role (low chances of counter claiming)
It doesn't make sense from a town perspective either.
and then finally he does this:
On June 18 2015 04:54 GlowingBear wrote: Alright bugs, could we lynch VA?
He also said some lie about blue claiming being in LS's meta which he claimed was some sort of test for what my response would be but it seemed forced to me.
LS's play is what makes him scummy, the claim just furthers that point. I don't see a reason for a town to claim there at all.
That also makes sense in the context of the fact that you are not actually really pushing LS as I would expect a townie to push him. That's what I mean by you didn't do anything and that you disappeared, because for a long time you were not in thread, and as BF has gained more suspicion you haven't done anything to convince other people that they should vote LS over BF. Unless of course you think they are both scum, which I think is preposterous in itself.
You are just making up reason's to scum read me now. I pushed LS very hard and Everyone was aware of that.
The fact that this is your response to my post doesn't look very good for you.
The effort level, the way you are undermining my opinion by saying I am making up reasons, and the fact that you are misconstruing your own effort and claiming that "everyone was aware of it". It seems like you are very self conscious of how other people are "aware" of your pushes. Why would that be the case if you are town?
If you still think LS is scum why are you okay with him not leading and people actually getting off him now?
are you trying to claim my effort level is low?
i'm interacting with you right now because I asked you questions and waited for you to show up.
your effort level in responding to me sucks. You choose to misconstrue my posts and in the previous one you picked out only the fact that I said I was unsure instead of reading the rest of the part in which I explained how I had LS leaning town before the claim and why the claim is not an indicator that he is scum. You don't bother addressing any of that.
Your followup on my questions to me doesn't appear to be town motivated because I would expect a townie to at least attempt to understand what I am saying. Instead all you do is undermine my opinions.
I am trying to understand it that is why i am questioning you.
I DID ADDRESS THAT POINT I had him as scum before the claim, the claim makes no sense as town, i carry on reading him as scum. you understand now?
THE CLAIM ONLY MAKES SENSE FROM TOWN. The fact that you are NOT understanding this despite how fucking obvious it is, is an indicator that you are lying when you claim that your questions are intended to understand it.
anyway whatever getting really annoyed that I am talking to you but you are scum so I'm just going to ignore you for the rest of the game
On June 18 2015 22:55 wherebugsgo wrote: I see I have been ninjaed.
Re: LS, I didn't defend LS prior to the claim because I myself was unsure of his alignment at that point. To me he seemed townish but my reasons were not very well qualified and it was mostly on the basis of him not acting in a very similar way to how he did in the last game where he was scum and we got him killed day 1. Indeed here his defense is a lot more passioned whereas in the previous game and in all the other scum games I read in which he got lynched he more or less rolled over and died.
The claim however pretty much instantly erased any doubts I had and that's when I chose to defend him because I knee jubjubs and scum would jump all over that shit to call him scum. The two worst responses IMO were yours and GB, and to a lesser extent Onegu whose only listed reason for voting was policy. IMO people who do not view that claim as a townish thing to do are either mafia or bad, and I really prefer not to assume someone is bad town when they have demonstrated some capability of thinking analytically.
GB's reaction to the claim was really terrible. He flipped his read on LS completely which is not what I would expect town to do simply on the basis of a claim. It also appeared very opportunistic because as soon as I showed resistance he backed off, and curiously tried to get my opinion on another low-hanging-fruit of a player, VA.
What's interesting to me here is that the more that I think on kt and write it out the more I find GB scummy than anyone else. Anyone else down to kill him today?
I dont care if the claim is townie. Dont give 2 shits. LS needs to die so he learns a lesson for future games. I am still reading this huge ass thread...
is that cause you are scum or is that because you are worse than LS?
Pick one, cause either way you deserve to die more than he does
like, more or less admitting that you don't give a fuck what LS's alignment is, and then admitting that you are lynching him for pure policy is by itself far scummier than anything LS did. At least he is trying and giving off the impression that he cares about the game, and even if he is scum and you are town he's probably a bigger asset to us.
On June 18 2015 22:55 wherebugsgo wrote: I see I have been ninjaed.
Re: LS, I didn't defend LS prior to the claim because I myself was unsure of his alignment at that point. To me he seemed townish but my reasons were not very well qualified and it was mostly on the basis of him not acting in a very similar way to how he did in the last game where he was scum and we got him killed day 1. Indeed here his defense is a lot more passioned whereas in the previous game and in all the other scum games I read in which he got lynched he more or less rolled over and died.
The claim however pretty much instantly erased any doubts I had and that's when I chose to defend him because I knee jubjubs and scum would jump all over that shit to call him scum. The two worst responses IMO were yours and GB, and to a lesser extent Onegu whose only listed reason for voting was policy. IMO people who do not view that claim as a townish thing to do are either mafia or bad, and I really prefer not to assume someone is bad town when they have demonstrated some capability of thinking analytically.
GB's reaction to the claim was really terrible. He flipped his read on LS completely which is not what I would expect town to do simply on the basis of a claim. It also appeared very opportunistic because as soon as I showed resistance he backed off, and curiously tried to get my opinion on another low-hanging-fruit of a player, VA.
What's interesting to me here is that the more that I think on kt and write it out the more I find GB scummy than anyone else. Anyone else down to kill him today?
I dont care if the claim is townie. Dont give 2 shits. LS needs to die so he learns a lesson for future games. I am still reading this huge ass thread...
is that cause you are scum or is that because you are worse than LS?
Pick one, cause either way you deserve to die more than he does
Dont give 2 shits... LS needs to die
if you don't give 2 shits then don't fucking play this game
yamato what do you make of the fact that GB just told me I'm apparently not helping town by attempting to consolidate yet he posts a list of players he'd like to lynch, none of whom are likely to get lynched today?
The tone of your posts flips from townreading to scumreading pretty much every other post. You're not pressuring a soul but the afk.
bugs we're not lynching me. Find a better target
How is my read wishy washy in the slightest? and if you don't think I'm pressuring anyone i suggest you read the game again
Kindly show me this pressure. Cause you're definitely doing nothing to figure out my alignment if that's what you're about to reference.
If you.feel.strongly enough about it to not probe further you're not pursuing your read/push with any vigor, and if you're not referring to me you're being even less effective.
you definitely haven't read the thread then
please, I've read the entire thread and the fact that I cannot come to a conclusion as to why people think BF is scummy is more of an indication of the shittiness of the push than me not reading.
Since you agree with me on GB why don't we just kill him instead of BF or LS, both of whom I think are bad lynches today?
On June 18 2015 14:58 ritoky wrote: GB, any semblance of a read on VA? cuz he is kinda toward the middle of your ranking rather than "I DONT FUCKIN KNOW" territory.
I can't read VA I don't trust any of his reads. I don't see an actual attempt to solve the game in his filter.
But him being in the middle is because I have some kind very faint town read on people in the bottom.
Which would mean you have at least a town lean on everyone else not on the list right? So what happened to this guy to make you read him town?
On June 17 2015 11:51 GlowingBear wrote:
Actual Listpost v1.0
Probs town
Holyflare (not posting + ninja vote on Bill Murray isn't a thing I see scumFlare comfortable at doing)
Damdred (tone reading, looks like town, fluid posts)
NydusHerMain(? need to keep an eye on him because when he got universally townread he stopped caring and just
came back to comment on posts that cited him, which is mafia indicative)
Kelsier (? need to keep an eye on him because he oddly tried to disrupt town while throwing suspicions on LS without actually trying to convince thread with strong arguments)
ritoky (trolled but jumped on rsoultin as a clear reaction to thread direction, not a strong read but could me town
Breshke (thinking critically about the game)
LS (a lot of activity early game, enough to grant him a day1 pass IMO)
Null
rsoultin (not caring for her today)
Bill Murray (could lynch pls)
Bugs (some of his approach looks scummy, some others look townie - in other words, I like that he pushes rsoultin but I dislike his unawareness of the rest of the thread - last game he was reacting to mostly everything but here he is tunneling rsoultin, which is a very easy behaviour for scum to adopt)
Fidei (meh)
Mig (who?)
Probs Mafia
Onegu (unnecessary need to claim VT ESPECIALLY after he was scumread for not claiming VT in a previous game + meta: town onegu is lazy and I don't see him giving himself the trouble to going into another game to paste an opening where he claimed VT as town + Onegu prefers playing as scum and he was too excited for rolling VT, meanwhile in the other game he was extremely upset he rolled VT)
[*]boxerfred (opening is a joke post commenting another joke post and fucking off of the thread) boxerfred
On June 17 2015 13:47 GlowingBear wrote: My Day1 PoE lynchlist (from most preferred to least preferred target)
On June 19 2015 01:07 wherebugsgo wrote: rofl anyone who doesn't understand the case on BF is apparently not reading according to HF
e.g.
On June 18 2015 02:33 Holyflare wrote:
On June 18 2015 02:27 rsoultin wrote:
On June 18 2015 02:23 Holyflare wrote:
On June 18 2015 02:19 rsoultin wrote: Hf
Why is your read on me so wishy washy?
The tone of your posts flips from townreading to scumreading pretty much every other post. You're not pressuring a soul but the afk.
bugs we're not lynching me. Find a better target
How is my read wishy washy in the slightest? and if you don't think I'm pressuring anyone i suggest you read the game again
Kindly show me this pressure. Cause you're definitely doing nothing to figure out my alignment if that's what you're about to reference.
If you.feel.strongly enough about it to not probe further you're not pursuing your read/push with any vigor, and if you're not referring to me you're being even less effective.
you definitely haven't read the thread then
please, I've read the entire thread and the fact that I cannot come to a conclusion as to why people think BF is scummy is more of an indication of the shittiness of the push than me not reading.
Since you agree with me on GB why don't we just kill him instead of BF or LS, both of whom I think are bad lynches today?
Don't understand is entirely different to not knowing what it is. Your case is the latter which is bs if you've read the thread. I've made the case on him abundantly clear. You even just hosted a game with him in it and he's totally different from that.
that's actually hilarious because internally that was one of the reasons I was considering him town. I don't think he is totally different from how he was playing in that game, but I didn't bother to use that as a reason because it's not really one that is easily qualifiable.
If you actually think he is playing differently here you have no idea how to use meta.
On June 19 2015 01:07 wherebugsgo wrote: rofl anyone who doesn't understand the case on BF is apparently not reading according to HF
e.g.
On June 18 2015 02:33 Holyflare wrote:
On June 18 2015 02:27 rsoultin wrote:
On June 18 2015 02:23 Holyflare wrote:
On June 18 2015 02:19 rsoultin wrote: Hf
Why is your read on me so wishy washy?
The tone of your posts flips from townreading to scumreading pretty much every other post. You're not pressuring a soul but the afk.
bugs we're not lynching me. Find a better target
How is my read wishy washy in the slightest? and if you don't think I'm pressuring anyone i suggest you read the game again
Kindly show me this pressure. Cause you're definitely doing nothing to figure out my alignment if that's what you're about to reference.
If you.feel.strongly enough about it to not probe further you're not pursuing your read/push with any vigor, and if you're not referring to me you're being even less effective.
you definitely haven't read the thread then
please, I've read the entire thread and the fact that I cannot come to a conclusion as to why people think BF is scummy is more of an indication of the shittiness of the push than me not reading.
Since you agree with me on GB why don't we just kill him instead of BF or LS, both of whom I think are bad lynches today?
Don't understand is entirely different to not knowing what it is. Your case is the latter which is bs if you've read the thread. I've made the case on him abundantly clear. You even just hosted a game with him in it and he's totally different from that.
that's actually hilarious because internally that was one of the reasons I was considering him town. I don't think he is totally different from how he was playing in that game, but I didn't bother to use that as a reason because it's not really one that is easily qualifiable.
If you actually think he is playing differently here you have no idea how to use meta.
Answer these:
Have you or have you not read the thread? If answer is yes, how on earth do you miss the repeated pushes I've made on him?
All you've said is surface level crap of 'i read his filter and think he's town" while saying nothing as to the reason why and nothing about the case on him, nothing about how he's done absolutely nothing and when corrected does absolutely nothing some more.
No way.
yes.
I didn't miss shit. I am simply pointing out how I think there is no real reason to lynch bf. Being able to summarize something after you've read it requires a different type of content. Basically, your posts don't stand out to me because they don't really point out things I necessarily agree with, with the exception on some of the things you said about GB. Admittedly it's also really hard to pay attention to everything when the game gets inflated by 500 posts while I was asleep and away from the thread.
This prompted me to reread btw, with your filter side by side. You actually didn't really post on BF that much, which is probably why I remember you arguing with rsoultin more than bf.
In fact one of the posts is just a quote of two of your previous posts (one of which was just a response to rsoultin) followed by a quote of your own vote. Beyond that you don't really do anything except inflate the impression that you are pushing him a lot and completely ignoring anything that could lead to the idea that BF is town.
In particular if you just read this response to you here:
On June 18 2015 01:09 boxerfred wrote: EBWOP: "So I'd like the more experienced players in here if HF is a player that is capable of changing his meta and who cares - or not." - "So I'd like to ASK ..."
whether i follow or am capable of changing my meta or not is irrelevant because that post is nothing about how i am playing and everything about how rsoul was playing and misrepresenting my play to make some bs scum read on me
not sure how you can make that post and not realise that
I think that this is actually really relevant because if you're not the guy to change you're meta, you're most likely town. if I am to trust the meta read that someone (have to recall) made on you. Gonna look into rsoul too when I'm home. Just don't forget that all I did by now was skimming through the thread, reading Kelsier's and your filter. That's not too much, so my first conclusions won't be too great, eh?
i try and change but always fall into the same spammy nature eventually
either way your giant post says:
i'm mafia because i am aware of my meta and pointed out someone lying about past games to "fake" a read on me i'm mafia because i posted that after i posted a small reply to a big post
you should be coming to the opposite conclusion on the first line since i'm pointing out people doing scummy things - lying (but for some reason you ignore that and say it's scummy i know my meta?)
and the second line isn't even true since it comes AFTER i made my vote and wasn't even in response to the big post since it was posted at the exact same time she posted the big one
then you say i could be town if i stick to my meta lol!??! how does knowing my meta relate to your read on me at all? IF i did something the same way 3 games in a row and someone says i didn't do that and i'm scummy for not acting the same way then i can't really comprehend how you could even make your case to begin with
it pretty much makes me think you just picked a filter and decided to scum read someone and then forgot about what actually happened in their filter altogether and it's pretty scummy
I'm saying that the fact that you know how your meta appears does make it impossible to let your meta speak for you. Especially if you point that out. My logic might be flawed but I feel like if you yourself know how you appear in town games, it's really easy for you to make the same appearance in a scum game, especially if your meta seemingly consists of joking around and making nonsense day 1. That alone does not make it scummy, yes, but the fact that you point towards your meta as an indicator of your town alignment means that you use your meta to your purpose which does indeed appear scummy to me.
I don't know what line you refer to with the bolded part. The line I quoted came immediately after the huge post I quoted so that's why I took it into context. For me it looked (and looks) like you we answering to this post and I did not like the way you did it at all.
And well, I learned by now that it is easily possible to horribly misread someone so I'm saying that yes, while I interpret your meta mentioning as scummy, it is very well possible that I am wrong and your play up to my post simply says "Yes, I'm town."
All those things are indicators and rather weak points, I followed that up with a vote for two reasons:
a) I only looked into Kelsier and you at this point b) I wanted to see your reactions to this post.
So off of this reaction, I feel like it's an emotional response. It feels genuine. I like that.
No matter what you think was scummy about any of BF's posts, this one should wipe them all out. He actually confronts you and responds to you in a manner that no new scum ever would do under the face of that kind of suspicion. He uses really fucking weird logic but that doesn't make him scum, just bad. That's no surprise given that this dude has played like 3 games up to this point.
Given his open honesty and forthright perspective upon what made him actually post that stuff I don't see how you can still think he is scum.
He admittedly hasn't done anything aside from that post and a couple of others but his attitude is fine and his opinions make sense from a new town perspective. I think the only thing scummy about him is that he hasn't come back yet but that can easily be explained by the fact that this game looks like it will easily surpass 2000 posts before the end of today. Indeed even though we only have 4 more players than both Witchcraft and the game I hosted, this game already has more posts than witchcraft (which includes the endgame!) and it is on par to exceed my game as well pretty soon. My game was a 4 cycle affair and in it boxerfred did not post as much and did not have much motivation to post given how people treated him, so I wouldn't be at all surprised if he feels the same here, in a situation where we have like 3x the posting activity.
On June 19 2015 01:35 GlowingBear wrote: My wording is TERRIBLE in my latest post
Tell me if you can understand. In case you can't, I will rewrite it
lynching low activity is better than someone scummy. because if scum has a high activity they will give themselves away at some point whereas low activity is always a question.
that right?
Exactly!!!
or, you know, the fact that this is a retarded opinion if you are town and actually incredibly indicative that you are scum
Let's break it down. From a GB=town perspective first: it's not at all helpful because you eliminate entire possibilities when scumhunting and you invite scum to be more active by saying, "oh if you're more active we won't lynch you!" Townies, on the other hand, are not going to give a shit because they will continue to play like they will play and they could honestly not give a fuck what a player like you thinks. Indeed this is one of the biggest problems with using surface-level things like activity to attempt to scum hunt because you end up shooting yourself in the foot. You maybe catch the low activity scum if you are lucky or manage to use other clues to find them but it is incredibly rare that you can nail an entire team or even a significant portion of a team that way. It certainly wouldn't have worked in the game we played in together where you were scum, where all 3 scum members were active (AND YOU SHOULD FUCKING KNOW THAT IF YOU ARE TOWN) whereas town almost mislynched into some dude that was going to get modkilled anyway, and all the other lynch candidates would obviously not have flipped town like Shockey and Shining and Tubesock and whoever else was in that game and was scummy.
So, if you are town in this game GB you should stop pushing anti town things and pushing like 7 different people with no reasons.
On the other hand if you imagine this from a GB=scum perspective this is actually really great for GB scum to say this. If GB scum says we're only lynching inactives, it's easy to get town support because no one likes inactives. Reading active people is hard so it's really easy to fake scum reads on inactive players. Indeed this fits best with GB's style this game because he asserts he is "reaction fishing" when in reality this is just a thin veil to look for town sentiment. Similarly in the previous game where he was scum, GB was more than willing to let LS, his scum teammate, live on day 1 but instead he wanted to push someone like Stutters who wasn't doing shit.
Why else would he ask me whether I would lynch VA randomly yet offer none of his own thought process? This in particular is very scummy because he was the one that prodded me for not providing opinions, yet when I do he offers absolutely nothing in return! At no point did GB actually make any sort of reasonable attempt to work with me despite claiming to want to do so. Indeed, he actually undermines what I am doing by saying that I am not attempting to get town to consolidate yet being the biggest offender by far of the very things he is accusing others of doing. Lastly, the whole "we're not going to lynch actives" thing is great for his scum style because as he proved in the last game, he is a very active scum player. When pushing the idea that we shouldn't lynch active players because it's a bad idea, he's masking his own style as scum because he himself is an active scum player. It's merely a stone that he is using to knock out multiple birds at once-it's a play in his own self interest in multiple ways.
That coupled with his complete lack of reads and reasons this game pretty much confirms he is scum.
On June 19 2015 01:35 GlowingBear wrote: My wording is TERRIBLE in my latest post
Tell me if you can understand. In case you can't, I will rewrite it
lynching low activity is better than someone scummy. because if scum has a high activity they will give themselves away at some point whereas low activity is always a question.
that right?
Exactly!!!
or, you know, the fact that this is a retarded opinion if you are town and actually incredibly indicative that you are scum
Let's break it down. From a GB=town perspective first: it's not at all helpful because you eliminate entire possibilities when scumhunting and you invite scum to be more active by saying, "oh if you're more active we won't lynch you!" Townies, on the other hand, are not going to give a shit because they will continue to play like they will play and they could honestly not give a fuck what a player like you thinks. Indeed this is one of the biggest problems with using surface-level things like activity to attempt to scum hunt because you end up shooting yourself in the foot. You maybe catch the low activity scum if you are lucky or manage to use other clues to find them but it is incredibly rare that you can nail an entire team or even a significant portion of a team that way. It certainly wouldn't have worked in the game we played in together where you were scum, where all 3 scum members were active (AND YOU SHOULD FUCKING KNOW THAT IF YOU ARE TOWN) whereas town almost mislynched into some dude that was going to get modkilled anyway, and all the other lynch candidates would obviously not have flipped town like Shockey and Shining and Tubesock and whoever else was in that game and was scummy.
So, if you are town in this game GB you should stop pushing anti town things and pushing like 7 different people with no reasons.
On the other hand if you imagine this from a GB=scum perspective this is actually really great for GB scum to say this. If GB scum says we're only lynching inactives, it's easy to get town support because no one likes inactives. Reading active people is hard so it's really easy to fake scum reads on inactive players. Indeed this fits best with GB's style this game because he asserts he is "reaction fishing" when in reality this is just a thin veil to look for town sentiment. Similarly in the previous game where he was scum, GB was more than willing to let LS, his scum teammate, live on day 1 but instead he wanted to push someone like Stutters who wasn't doing shit.
Why else would he ask me whether I would lynch VA randomly yet offer none of his own thought process? This in particular is very scummy because he was the one that prodded me for not providing opinions, yet when I do he offers absolutely nothing in return! At no point did GB actually make any sort of reasonable attempt to work with me despite claiming to want to do so. Indeed, he actually undermines what I am doing by saying that I am not attempting to get town to consolidate yet being the biggest offender by far of the very things he is accusing others of doing. Lastly, the whole "we're not going to lynch actives" thing is great for his scum style because as he proved in the last game, he is a very active scum player. When pushing the idea that we shouldn't lynch active players because it's a bad idea, he's masking his own style as scum because he himself is an active scum player. It's merely a stone that he is using to knock out multiple birds at once-it's a play in his own self interest in multiple ways.
That coupled with his complete lack of reads and reasons this game pretty much confirms he is scum.
hold on..are you actually town?
if you are town do you legitimately find these posts useful?
Like, maybe I should just continue ignoring you even though I think you are more likely to be town now, but I would say you are one of the top 3 reasons this thread is so huge and full of useless posts, like, for example this one. Antagonizing people for reactions might be useful but just doing it just to do it is completely pointless if you are town.
I realize this may sound weird coming from me, one of the most aggressive players on the forum, but I'm pretty sure the reason that some of these players in this game aren't posting is because there are so many posts in this game and so many of them from you in particular are hostile.
On June 19 2015 02:09 NydusHerMain wrote: I want to swap this to a bw on onegu but at the same time I'm okay with a bf lynch.
@bugs what's there not to get about what gb said? He's uneasy despite being one of the voters because it's got so many people voting on it whereas no one else is really up for vote consideration in comparison.
Gonna throw this out there and see if it sticks.
##Vote: onegu
If not, I'm fine with bf regardless.
what doesn't make sense is the fact that he is uneasy about the lack of consolidation yet he does exactly what he claims is making him uneasy. He doesn't attempt to consolidate and instead his reads are constantly changing and he's adding new people he thinks are scum all the time.
e.g. why would he bother to say that he's going to write up a case on breshke? I feel if that actually gets posted it's going to derail the thread even further rather than give us any further indication on who is scum. Given that his vote is on BF I would expect him to try to convince the rest of us to consolidate on BF, because that's what he says he expects other people to be doing-consolidating.
It's also nearly impossible to know what he thinks because he refuses to work to flesh out reads despite claiming that it is what he wanted to do with me. He asked me maybe 2-3 one liner questions that ended up going nowhere because when I responded to him he gave nothing in return. That's quite odd for someone who claimed that collaboration is important in getting together a strong town day 1.
If he unvotes BF and ends up voting someone else this will pretty much prove what I'm talking about. He might OMGUS me or maybe he'll go through with his statement on Breshke but even now it doesn't appear that he was genuine about his talk about consolidation and about his talk about collaboration.
also it's pretty hilarious that his only response to me saying he is scum is to subtly call me scum back, which is fairly similar to what he did last game when he was scum and I called him out on day 1.
from then on he tried to see if he could undermine my opinion by calling me scum and then eventually had to back off.
On June 19 2015 02:32 GlowingBear wrote: Sheesh. I should actually reason my opinions.
Bugs you're scum because last game you were very inclined to lynch lurkers or at least tried to put pressure in them. You start doing that here (voting Mig). Then you completely forget the lurkers. Now I am proposing we should go against lurkers, and you are calling me scum for that, which makes no sense.
More than that, you said Mig was the only one you played together with, which means you have a good grasp of his gameplay. You started the game by voting him. He came back to the thread and I have no idea what you think of him. You didn't push him, you didn't try to work with him. You simply ignored him, which is very contradictory with your opening in this game.
Also, you're one to overestimate meta. You're calling me scum but you didn't even try to read my previous games. I said once: "I do this since Avogadro". I would expect you to go take a look at least into that game. You're not doing it. For someone that says that IDENTITY plays a big part in your reads, you're not caring at all for mine before calling me scum.
In other words, your discourse doesn't match your current gameplay.
wat
I didn't try to lynch lurkers last game. This is a complete lie. I DEFENDED stutters, but of course you would not choose to remember that because you are scum.
also lol @ the meta shit, it takes a huge amount of time to read meta properly and I have been calling you scum for maybe two hours now.
If you are really town you wouldn't even consider me scum this game given all that I have done, but of course you aren't seeing reason. Or maybe I'm just wrong and you are so terrible that you can't hold proper reads simply because you don't know what proper reads are-perhaps that's why you smurfed last game, because you are bad and everyone knows how terrible you are. However I don't think anyone with as many games as you can possibly be that bad to call me scum this game.
also the thing on Mig is another lie. I didn't want to disclose my read on Mig and I didn't really have an interest in discussing anything with him because there was already so much going on and I needed to catch up. I also didn't ignore him at all which is a huge red flag for GB that he is clearly not reading my posts. Proof in point here:
On June 18 2015 23:13 rsoultin wrote: God im scattered today sorry.
Also read on mig wbg since you know him better and wanted him to post. I'm a sucker for logic. Can he post like this as scum?
Mig is pretty terrible as scum and a couple of his posts are actually pretty decent. They appear to be indicative that he is actually reading, which is a good sign.
Mig is one of those players where if it looks like he is not reading he's probably scum. Even though he doesn't post much, as town he tends to make sense whereas when he is scum his reads aren't generally logically sensible. For example he pointed out that GB had no proper scum reads 55 pages in which is actually a pretty astute and subtle point. Like, sure, GB called some people scum but at no point in the game did he actually do anything about them-most of the time he's fishing for sentiment (e.g. asking me about VA) and in the LS case he was like "ok I'm gonna vote him too" and then he backed off at resistance from me.
On June 18 2015 08:37 Mig wrote: Gbs plan is to try and look scummy, contribute nothing and then if you discuss anyone besides him calls you suspicious. Solid.
Do you actually believe any of my posts are coming from a mafia mindset Gb? Or are you just trying to paint me poorly since I actually questioned your posts.
also made me feel much better about Mig because as I mentioned his mafia play is pretty shitty and this came off really strongly. I don't think scum Mig would make a post with this kind of bold response.
here I responded to rsoultin's question on Mig. Saying that I've ignored him is wholly disingenuous and another reason GB is scum.
On June 19 2015 02:32 GlowingBear wrote: Sheesh. I should actually reason my opinions.
Bugs you're scum because last game you were very inclined to lynch lurkers or at least tried to put pressure in them. You start doing that here (voting Mig). Then you completely forget the lurkers. Now I am proposing we should go against lurkers, and you are calling me scum for that, which makes no sense.
More than that, you said Mig was the only one you played together with, which means you have a good grasp of his gameplay. You started the game by voting him. He came back to the thread and I have no idea what you think of him. You didn't push him, you didn't try to work with him. You simply ignored him, which is very contradictory with your opening in this game.
Also, you're one to overestimate meta. You're calling me scum but you didn't even try to read my previous games. I said once: "I do this since Avogadro". I would expect you to go take a look at least into that game. You're not doing it. For someone that says that IDENTITY plays a big part in your reads, you're not caring at all for mine before calling me scum.
In other words, your discourse doesn't match your current gameplay.
wat
I didn't try to lynch lurkers last game. This is a complete lie. I DEFENDED stutters, but of course you would not choose to remember that because you are scum.
also lol @ the meta shit, it takes a huge amount of time to read meta properly and I have been calling you scum for maybe two hours now.
If you are really town you wouldn't even consider me scum this game given all that I have done, but of course you aren't seeing reason. Or maybe I'm just wrong and you are so terrible that you can't hold proper reads simply because you don't know what proper reads are-perhaps that's why you smurfed last game, because you are bad and everyone knows how terrible you are. However I don't think anyone with as many games as you can possibly be that bad to call me scum this game.
Well I can be this bad.
And I will lynch you anyway, because you suck
ooh, I'm so scared, scum GB has threatened to mislynch me!
btw nice bluff on the meta thing. It's a good thing I had it in my back pocket and made notes on posts like this:
On October 13 2014 00:19 raynpelikoneet wrote: What i think you did is you gave yourself an out before even trying to push a read. You did the same thing last game with me. You called the motivation behind my posting scum "or something that comes from town" (i don't remember the reasoning).
That is self-preservation before pushing a read and townies do not do that. If you think someone might be blue you shut the fuck up of it and try gathering more information about them in other ways. Not basically say "he is mafia OR THIS OTHER THING I DON'T WANNA TALK ABOUT!!!"
Now you're misquoting me. I said he could be trying to look scum. It does not automatically implies he is blue. If you think that was so clear, why people started saying my read was bizarre or forcing me to explain it? If it's clear, why don't you shut up about it?
If you think it was that clear, what do you think of people who forced me into talking about it?
Because i joined the fucking game after you made your post about you thinking he is blue.... There is no reason to shut up about it any more.
Vanilla townies never ever try to look like scum for any reason. rofl, what other explanation there is for your phrase than "blue"?
You defended yourself and avoided the question.
Because they think you are mafia as you did scummy thing. That would be my interpretation. Which is also why i am questioning DP about his read on you.
They think I'm mafia knowing I have a blue tell and wants me to say who this blue tell is? Does this make sense to you?
As you said, it was clear I had a blue tell. Why not questioning me solely on geript instead of forcing me into giving my blue read on DP? Why town would waste time with known fact and even help mafia blue hunting?
I have no idea what you are trying to achieve with this so explain yourself.
Ok. Explaining further.
You're a town and you saw my post on DP. "Tried to look scum" sounded like I had a blue tell on DP. What would a townie do? 1) Force me into saying who I think is blue 2) Inquire me regarding my other scum read
You agree with me it would be (2), or at least never (1), right? But people forced me into saying that I thought DP was blue.
So: A) Either you're wrong on saying I was clearly hinting DP was blue or B) It was clear and scum tried to force me into saying I think DP is blue.
Therefore, what do you make of people who forced me into giving my blue read on DP?
where you actually actively talk to people and reason out things that other people talk about when town, whereas in this game you do jack shit when you vote someone and don't bother giving the slightest indication that you are actually thinking about the game or attempting to solve it using the perspectives of the players you are targetting.
That's really apparent when you call people like Breshke and me scum, for example, while your vote is sitting nicely on the biggest wagon in the game.
Other interesting things from that game include this post:
On October 13 2014 02:40 GlowingBear wrote: I had that kind of meta/gut feeling out of Haru last game (2p2 Werewolf)
I was town and I was right on him.
It doesn't mean much
I've been giving reads and explaining them the entire game. I don't think you guys have strong reasons to call me scum. I'm trying to understand what's happening in the game.
where your reaction to being called scum is vastly different from the one here. Instead of OMGUSing you are actually reasonable and you point out how you are attempting to understand what's happening and explaining things, whereas in this game you don't bother to explain anything despite claiming that collaboration is important and discussing reads with townies is important.
On October 12 2014 06:40 DarthPunk wrote: What the fuck is it with people whinging about try harding.
Firstly: This is not try harding.
Secondly: Why would you not try your best?
Makes no sense and annoys the shit out of me.
Raising suspicions on someone because he thinks that a guy that only posted an entrance COULD be mafia, instead is thinking that the guy IS mafia, is try hard for me.
It looks like scum try hard.
Your vote on damdred was also bizarre. Damdred looks terrible for what reason, specifically? You say you don't have a is about his alignment yet but still votes on him because "you don't care?"
Congratulations, you successfully recited what happened in the thread. Care to draw a conclusion? or provide some analysis?
Damdred looks terrible because his posts were useless and made no positive contribution to the thread. Which is pretty damn obvious in my opinion.
Conclusion: geript is mafia tryhard and you are suspicious of being mafia or trying to look as mafia
could you rephrase this so that it makes sense this time?
Geript: trying too hard at the start of the game, picking on little things. He is mafia DarthPunk: his vote on damdred is too scummy. He is either bad mafia (which I don't believe so, he is a legend ) or he tried to look as mafia for some reason.
Start ignoring me, I really believe this at the moment.
But is picking on the little things when their is so little to go on (lolz) actually alignment indicative? I'm not so sure that it is, especially with geripts history with me, try to explain to me more why this is mafia trait and not bad/good early scum hunting?
Not sure what you mean about DP, hes voted three people in this thread I think. Is throwing a vote around like that scummy for DP?
In a vacuum vote-skipping is town-indicative...it shows a carelessness with regard to one's outward appearance and fearlessness of retribution in the form of OMGUS votes.
The question is whether /you/ think it's scummy for DP or not. What do you think?
Answering damdred:
Damdy, the easiest thing for mafia to do is to come early in the thread and try to look contributive until someone townreads him. I did exactly what geript is doing in Mission. I'm more inclined to believe that mafia would be this tryhard at page 1 than town.
Throwing votes is town trait. Throwing votes without reasoning, or even saying he doesn't care is scummy to me. But too scummy to be scum. As I said, I don't want to discuss this specific point anymore.
Throwing votes without reasoning is scummy, eh? If that's what you believe as town why are you throwing around votes without reasoning in this game?
On June 19 2015 02:45 wherebugsgo wrote: also the thing on Mig is another lie. I didn't want to disclose my read on Mig and I didn't really have an interest in discussing anything with him because there was already so much going on and I needed to catch up. I also didn't ignore him at all which is a huge red flag for GB that he is clearly not reading my posts. Proof in point here:
On June 18 2015 23:24 wherebugsgo wrote:
On June 18 2015 23:13 rsoultin wrote: God im scattered today sorry.
Also read on mig wbg since you know him better and wanted him to post. I'm a sucker for logic. Can he post like this as scum?
Mig is pretty terrible as scum and a couple of his posts are actually pretty decent. They appear to be indicative that he is actually reading, which is a good sign.
Mig is one of those players where if it looks like he is not reading he's probably scum. Even though he doesn't post much, as town he tends to make sense whereas when he is scum his reads aren't generally logically sensible. For example he pointed out that GB had no proper scum reads 55 pages in which is actually a pretty astute and subtle point. Like, sure, GB called some people scum but at no point in the game did he actually do anything about them-most of the time he's fishing for sentiment (e.g. asking me about VA) and in the LS case he was like "ok I'm gonna vote him too" and then he backed off at resistance from me.
The tone and attitude in this post:
On June 18 2015 08:37 Mig wrote: Gbs plan is to try and look scummy, contribute nothing and then if you discuss anyone besides him calls you suspicious. Solid.
Do you actually believe any of my posts are coming from a mafia mindset Gb? Or are you just trying to paint me poorly since I actually questioned your posts.
also made me feel much better about Mig because as I mentioned his mafia play is pretty shitty and this came off really strongly. I don't think scum Mig would make a post with this kind of bold response.
here I responded to rsoultin's question on Mig. Saying that I've ignored him is wholly disingenuous and another reason GB is scum.
LOL yeah, you ANSWERED a DIRECTED QUESTION. Congrats, you're totally not ignoring someone you SHOULD be interacting with WITHOUT being needed to being asked for.
Argh, get out
Why the fuck would I comment on a town read when there is literally no reason for me to comment on town reads?
In what universe does this make any shred of sense?
like, the whole idea of GB's that I need to apparently comment on every other player in the game while he says shit like we need to contribute to consolidate our reads and talk to each other while not doing it himself is so astoundingly hypocritical and scummy it's crazy
actually rsoultin, Mig, Breshke and HF I want to read your opinions on GB too. Maybe at least one of you will respond so I have something to work with. We have like 5 hours and I don't want to lynch either BF or LS today
On June 19 2015 03:11 LightningStrike wrote: I here I just needed a break from talking to some brick walls this morning mainly in KSC who is just in a deeper tunnel then the English Chanel tunnel to France -_- Also GB did misrepresent Bugs on the fact that Bugs actually didn't push lurkers in our last game together he mainly pushed me and GB last game. @Bugs do you think that GB is scum for misrepresenting you there or is it other stuff that makes you think he's scum?
The lie is pretty big, like even though he was scum last game I don't think anyone could have misconstrued my play last game that hard to view it as pushing lurkers. However that's like one small part in the overall big picture.
The other big things, like I mentioned, are the fact that GB repeatedly says he wants things like people to talk to each other and for town to consolidate/have a good atmosphere, e.g this post:
On June 19 2015 00:29 GlowingBear wrote: My problem here is: if you're town, you're not helping your team when you don't narrow a lynch list for today and discuss it with your townreads.
This kind of disorganisation always lead into a mislynch, since it's very easy for scum to manipulate people into voting who they want to.
Like he says not narrowing a lynch list is being anti-town, yet he just made a case on Breshke who he himself called town earlier only now to derail the thread with a case on him. Yet, he isn't encouraging people to consolidate on boxerfred, where is vote ACTUALLY is, and I somehow doubt that he'd move his vote to Breshke either because he's not dumb enough to think that people are actually going to kill Breshke today. Breshke is like bottom 4 or 5 in the list of players I would feasibly lynch today and the fact that GB thinks he is scum now is really fucking weird.
The very interesting thing about his vote on boxerfred is that it seems that his only motivations for voting him are that he didn't like his opening and that HF is voting him. If we are supposed to be reading inbetween the lines here perhaps it's also because he's a low activity player, but that is not alignment indicative, so I don't understand why he keeps going back to the argument that we should not lynch active players today.
And that's the final thing that to me seems very weird. GB seems to be overly focused on this active players shit, which as I mentioned before is not very helpful to town. You do not want to prematurely eliminate possibilities based on surface-level things like activity, because later it'll bite you in the ass when you have subconsciously eliminated a bunch of people simply because they posted a lot. On the other hand it benefits scum a lot because GB's style as scum is to post more than average, and it makes it easier for people to ignore him if everyone agrees that inactives are bad (which is not at all a controversial opinion, that's like something literally 90% of the forum would support)
On June 08 2015 08:26 LightningStrike wrote: Hi guys I just got around to post and saw that Kickstart made a pact with the devil himself -_- Also I don't like Wherebugsgo voting FreezingFoot on the fact that FreezingFoot is a potential smurf. @Kickstart thoughts on Wherebugsgo attacking FreezingFoot for being a smurf?
Being a smurf is not alignment indicative.
refusing to divulge relevant information sure is!
identity is a large part of mafia.
So do you think someone that has chosen to smurf is more likely to reveal who they are as town or mafia then?
I think they would be more likely to reveal themselves as town.
Granted, a smurf does not have to reveal themselves to be useful to town. I have smurfed myself, and the reason I do it is often quite simple-most people don't ask, and those who do can be placated by providing opinions and good reads. I have never had the luxury of rolling scum while smurfing, but if I ever did I do not doubt it would be one of the easiest ways to achieve victory.
It is plainly obvious why smurfing is far more advantageous to the individual player than the team as a whole. The town only benefits if the player who is smurfing is a high caliber town player, rolls town, and escapes getting shot night 1 due to being a smurf. Otherwise, town stands to gain nothing from a mediocre townie or a bad townie smurfing other than a lack of insight into the player's behaviour.
You should always hold smurfs to a higher standard because if they refuse to reveal their identity then you have no background to be working with. You have no expectation of their play, and an ordinarily good townie has rolled scum on a smurf you have no way of knowing.
This post reveals how contrived his behaviour regarding smurfing is.
He admits if there is a very good player smurfing, it is benefical to town because the town smurf can avoid a night kill. In other words, he understands that there is also mafia motivation to know who the player is, so they can know how to deal with him. Why does he insist in having the disguised person figured out then?
This is also horrible because if you actually needed a player's background to properly play mafia, there would be no newbie games. So, his arguments are clearly forced / fabricated, as already revealed.
It's not beneficial because the town smurf can avoid a night kill. It's only beneficial when that townie actually does something, which is usually the case when they are good. Which is why I told you, if that's the case (and you would know!) you certainly don't have to reveal yourself.
Your failure to recognize this point is now really damning. I have pointed it out multiple times, yet you are completely fixated on cherry picking my posts. I have invited you to provide scumreads, and invited you to answer many questions that could prove without a shadow of a doubt that you are indeed town, but repeatedly you have failed to do so.
If I were scum I would shoot the person with the best reads. It's clearly not you, because you're scum. It wouldn't matter if I'm talking to Foolishness in this game (and you're certainly not him) because your logic and your behaviour is unexplainable from a town perspective. You selectively cherry pick my posts in a way that paints you in the best light, and you repeatedly attempt to undermine my arguments by calling them bad without a shred of evidence backing you up.
I'm going to stop crapping up the thread with you directly now, since it's probably just going to continue to scare people off from posting...although I don't really like how slow everyone is to come in and get involved.
Again, to everyone in the game: PLEASE contribute, because we need a valid and diverse set of good perspectives to win this game of elimination.
On June 09 2015 02:52 wherebugsgo wrote: Yamato are you ignoring me or did you just miss my post?
I don't need your opinion on FF anymore but would like to know who you dislike aside from the lurkers. I think we have two potential lynches that are far better than lurker lynches. I aould give one of them like 95% chance of turning scum. I'm wondering if you have seen any player you would put in that category.
This post shows that Bugs would consider lynching lurkers if he didn't have a better target. He is just having a strong scumread NOW, against me.
Kickstart and Breshke I think are town. I actually like Freezing's response.
For the Great Smurf Debate of 2015 I don't care if Freeze outs or not. personally, I'm happy if he/she doesn't. Obviously, she's doing it for a reason pre-game. I don't get why you want to ruin that for them.
Anyway, anyone still around?
Someone also said they thought foots was rsoultin before.
idk, I personally wouldn't put much into that. First it was he/she and it could have been a matter of convenience to say "she". I know some people default to female pronouns when they are unsure. Even so, Tubesock could know FF's identity through some other means, e.g. they talked to a particular player and knew they were going to smurf in this game.
With that said though, if Tubesock indeed does know FF's identity then it makes them both far more likely to be scum. That would be unfortunate (and rather weird, too) because I actually don't really think that's the case right now.
##unvote
Gonna think for a bit, the lack of feedback from players is a little disappointing. bats, talk to me a bit.
What do you think of other players in the game right now? Is this what you would expect from town yamato, onegu, Lightning?
Have you played with Bill Murray before, and do you think he is town this game?
You can see that he is worried about people that doesn't post much. He clearly goes for batsnacks here. I don't see this kind of attitude in this game.
He was way more open minded in the last game. I think his post style here is very different.
how the fuck does the bolded mean that I would be willing to lynch people that didn't contribute?
All the bolded meant was that I wanted people to contribute so that I could determine if my tunnel was wrong. When people started appearing in the thread the thing that ensured I knew what was happening was good was when I got so much resistance to the lynch yet people continually hemmed and hawed about lynching LS. That was one of the most painful lynches ever simply because half the players in the game weren't around and the rest of them found really stupid reasons to want to lynch stutters over LS.
and the second post is literally the same fucking mentality. I was worried when people weren't responding to my case because I was so confident on it, yet it barely swayed anyone until very late in the day. That has absolutely nothing to do with me wanting to lynch inactives, which in general I do not do except as a last resort. There is no such need in this game to lynch inactive people which is why I would recommend we NOT lynch BF, because there are plenty of players who look worse than BF and on more than just the basis of activity, which in general is a shitty heuristic in the first place.
This post seems so fabricated to me and such a stretch that there is almost no way GB is town here
I think we have two potential lynches that are far better than lurker lynches. I aould give one of them like 95% chance of turning scum. I'm wondering if you have seen any player you would put in that category.
literal fucking contradiction, GB is not even reading the posts he is quoting, he is just misrepresenting me.
On April 21 2015 05:22 Holyflare wrote: nice you posted a useless post where you say exactly what i said
1. the sentence literally after what you wrote says: "this could just be awful vivax"
2. easy targets is such a bull shit reason for someone being mafia when they put cases on those people that are thought out like you can't pick and choose who is mafia in a game so what if they were all easy mislynch people???? people pushing them must be mafia!!!!
3. how the fuck are you an easy target?? which people in this game aren't easy targets then?????????
THREAD SENTIMENT IS AGAINST ME ALL THREAD SENTIMENT GOING AGAINST ME IS BEING IN AN EASY TARGET
TRY TO LYNCH SICKLUCKER WHO IS SCUMMY AS HELL JUST TRY IT YOU WON'T BE ABLE THREAD SENTIMENT ISN'T AGAINST HIM + PEOPLE SIMPLY CAN'T SEE HOW HE IS MAFIA
YOU'RE FUCKING LETTING HIM LIVE BECAUSE HE IS BAD EVERY GAME, WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS EXCUSE????
that's like exactly what he's doing here hahahahaha
On June 19 2015 03:09 wherebugsgo wrote: actually rsoultin, Mig, Breshke and HF I want to read your opinions on GB too. Maybe at least one of you will respond so I have something to work with. We have like 5 hours and I don't want to lynch either BF or LS today
Quite clearly stated i scum read him and the reasons why. Will be back in about an hour to talk about stuff.
+gb where did i ever say the mafia team was all lurkers other than a sarcastic jab at you a while ago?
care to jog my memory? I recall you posting something pointing out the consolidation thing but you can pretend I'm a goldfish for the purposes of this exercise. I just want to know that you have real opinions I can trust.
But of course if you don't wanna play we can have it your way
On June 18 2015 23:43 wherebugsgo wrote: like, more or less admitting that you don't give a fuck what LS's alignment is, and then admitting that you are lynching him for pure policy is by itself far scummier than anything LS did. At least he is trying and giving off the impression that he cares about the game, and even if he is scum and you are town he's probably a bigger asset to us.
On June 19 2015 04:23 Holyflare wrote: Hey bugs let me ask you something trivial. What is the difference between bf saying something wrong and believing it and gb saying something wrong and believing it?
I think the obvious answer is that BF has like 3 games and so him saying something wrong and believing it is pretty natural and expected regardless of alignment whereas GB has like 10x as many games so it's more indicative of him being scum
On June 19 2015 04:08 ritoky wrote: I am very annoyed with GB, rsoul, and kelsier.
GB and rsoul were like "let's find scum" then didn't try to find scum very hard. then when they passed out i went scum hunting and plopped some work into the thread and neither one commented on it in the slightest. both were apparently reading me super town, so why the shit did they ignore it upon re-entry?
kels i am annoyed with because he promised to ask my question and didn't.
but LS explained when he got back
and his reason was he was annoyed with me pressing him
But why not just claim named VT the moment the game begins?
Because I didn't feel like claiming named VT at the start of the game.
cool, i am probably voting you this phase.
But that is going to be a wasted vote when we got two wagons going on............
1) you're spewing non-stop anti-town 2) people are already doing the "should we lynch LS this phase? naw reconsider next phase!" dance, which will go on many days and probably cost town the game 3) the other wagons aren't compelling enough to not vote on you 4) in some semblance i agree with onegu. i used to fake claim cop a bunch on these forums until some1 intentionally lost a game to teach me a lesson. you need to learn a lesson.
Point 4 i going againist your win condition by intentionally losing a game do you want to be mod killed for that?
I will be voting to lynch what I feel is the biggest impediment to town victory: you.
To me you're just sitting in the thread loling and seeing how much anti-town shit you can get away with before your string of credit runs out. It annoys me, and it is terrible play if you're town.
where exactly do you see this in LS's play? Like I legitimately don't understand the suspicion or where it comes from.
Let's ignore the claim for a second, what are the other things you think LS is doing that are anti-town?
On June 19 2015 04:17 GlowingBear wrote: Your vote also makes no sense, LS. You jumped on me too easily.
Look I liked Bugs case on you and I was already townreading him and based on how last game I putting all my eggs in that basket but if you are town make a legacy post before you get lynched.
Bugs has NOTHING against me. Your reasons to sheep are the worst
On June 19 2015 04:30 Lohengramm wrote: I'm going to continue to smurf for filter purposes, and because this account's name is fucking awesome. But yes, I am Yamato.
I will read filters until deadline. BF I have already read but if he's posted anything new I will give my thoughts. I will read LS closer but I really don't think he's mafia at all. As said before, I have a vague suspicion of GB but I admittedly only read like 10 pages.
For now, so I don't get modkilled after replacing in;
##Vote: boxerfred
this is an oddly convenient time to come in and vote BF
and you didn't bother responding to my questions! (or reading, I guess...) I hoped you weren't scum this game but perhaps you are after all
On June 19 2015 04:30 Lohengramm wrote: I'm going to continue to smurf for filter purposes, and because this account's name is fucking awesome. But yes, I am Yamato.
I will read filters until deadline. BF I have already read but if he's posted anything new I will give my thoughts. I will read LS closer but I really don't think he's mafia at all. As said before, I have a vague suspicion of GB but I admittedly only read like 10 pages.
For now, so I don't get modkilled after replacing in;
##Vote: boxerfred
this is an oddly convenient time to come in and vote BF
and you didn't bother responding to my questions! (or reading, I guess...) I hoped you weren't scum this game but perhaps you are after all
I haven't fucking read the thread.
If you have anything in specific you can link me but otherwise don't be a dumbass and complain that I haven't answered your questions when I clearly said I wouldn't be playing until just a couple hours before deadline.
Call it convenient timing or whatever, I literally just got home from work and I'm not in the mood for more whiny bitches.
when you get a chance, read my discourse with GB and his representation of my play from last game. Pages 82 and onward are fairly important. I'll leave you to come to your own conclusions since I think if you are town this game you are smart enough to figure it out on your own.
On June 19 2015 04:36 Lohengramm wrote: Also I literally forgot to vote earlier when I said I was going to vote. That's the ONLY reason I'm voting right now.
Jesus WBG don't fling shit for no reason.
it's not for no reason, in the context of the thread right now that vote on BF is really scummy
On June 19 2015 04:39 ritoky wrote: choppa 4 wants to vote on migs or LS.
one of my town reads try to talk me into doing something else if you want.
why don't you consider voting someone who has an actual chance of getting lynched today?
We have like 3 hours, pretty unlikely Mig will get lynched and I don't see any good reasons to lynch him today. LS you can try to lynch him but he's not gonna flip red, I can pretty much guarantee you that at this point.
At this point the choice is pretty clear, if you think GB is town then explain to me what makes him town, otherwise vote him. Same goes for BF I guess. While I doubt you can convince me I am always open to new revelations.
On June 19 2015 04:50 GlowingBear wrote: I want you guys calling me scum to explain this:
1) Why would I bother building a case on Breshke if boxerfred is town? I could simply just agree with Holyflare and lynch him and fuck off.
not alignment indicative. Also doesn't play to your style as mafia anyway so this is a completely moot point. Why telegraph for like 5 posts that you are ABOUT to post a case on Breshke instead of just posting it outright? We could come up with a hundred different completely null questions just like this one, none of them say anything about your alignment.
What does say a lot about your alignment is how shitty that Breshke case was, though.
WBG: 1 GB: 0
On June 19 2015 04:50 GlowingBear wrote: 2) Why would I call out tunnelus maximus bugs as mafia, knowing he would go against me? Why drawing so much attention?
Another alignment-null point. You called me mafia when you were scum last game, so this is obviously not alignment indicative. You've already proven that as mafia you're willing to OMGUS people, and it happens to be amazingly convenient that last game it was me.
WBG: 2 GB: 0
On June 19 2015 04:50 GlowingBear wrote: 3) Why would I, as mafia, intentionally flip my reads and call people mafia instead of keeping cool blending in with possible town?
Another alignment-null point. Both alignments flip their reads when they think they need to. Town do it when they think they are wrong or unlikely to be sheeped and scum do it when they think they have more to gain out of killing someone else or appearing better because they decided to go against a wagon when they know the wagon is going to result in killing a townie. And again this does not hash with your style as mafia where you can actually be very up front and confrontational, e.g. last game. "Blending in" is not necessarily a universal scum trait.
WBG: 3 GB: 0
On June 19 2015 04:50 GlowingBear wrote: 4) Why would I bother creating a lynch list and try to organise town?
Any scum can create a lynch list and I even pointed it out earlier in the game. One of the hallmarks of scum is providing laundry lists of "reads". You also didn't try to organise town despite saying how much you wanted it. You could've asked me lots of questions after I agreed that we should work together yet you asked me things that were apparently for "reaction testing". Instead of organising and talking to people you threw around unbased reads and never once followed through on a suspicion except when I started pushing you seriously and you decided to OMGUS me. Nice attempt at making yourself look better, though. Too bad I caught it too quickly for you.
WBG: 4 GB: 0
On June 19 2015 04:50 GlowingBear wrote: 5) Why would, as mafia, call LS out but NOT voting him, unless we are mafia together? But as you can see, we can't be mafia together because he is willing to lynch me out of nothing.
I want you all to answer these.
Oh cool, another alignment-null indicator. Sometimes mafia are unwilling to vote for people they call out because they know when they're wrong they'll take attention. So perhaps you know that you are wrong about LS and you don't want to call him out. Of course it would also look really desperate for you to switch from BF to LS on shaky and weak reasoning, particularly if you have to fabricate it, because that's really hard.
WBG: 5 GB: 0
Oh and if you actually believe BF is scum with me perhaps you should try to convince others why we should lynch BF over you, since there's 0 chance I'm going to die today and your vote hasn't moved, so I assume you're not even going to try to get me lynched. But, despite saying you want to organise town you have made no effort to organise an effort behind BF.
On June 19 2015 01:35 GlowingBear wrote: My wording is TERRIBLE in my latest post
Tell me if you can understand. In case you can't, I will rewrite it
lynching low activity is better than someone scummy. because if scum has a high activity they will give themselves away at some point whereas low activity is always a question.
that right?
Exactly!!!
or, you know, the fact that this is a retarded opinion if you are town and actually incredibly indicative that you are scum
Let's break it down. From a GB=town perspective first: it's not at all helpful because you eliminate entire possibilities when scumhunting and you invite scum to be more active by saying, "oh if you're more active we won't lynch you!" Townies, on the other hand, are not going to give a shit because they will continue to play like they will play and they could honestly not give a fuck what a player like you thinks. Indeed this is one of the biggest problems with using surface-level things like activity to attempt to scum hunt because you end up shooting yourself in the foot. You maybe catch the low activity scum if you are lucky or manage to use other clues to find them but it is incredibly rare that you can nail an entire team or even a significant portion of a team that way. It certainly wouldn't have worked in the game we played in together where you were scum, where all 3 scum members were active (AND YOU SHOULD FUCKING KNOW THAT IF YOU ARE TOWN) whereas town almost mislynched into some dude that was going to get modkilled anyway, and all the other lynch candidates would obviously not have flipped town like Shockey and Shining and Tubesock and whoever else was in that game and was scummy.
So, if you are town in this game GB you should stop pushing anti town things and pushing like 7 different people with no reasons.
On the other hand if you imagine this from a GB=scum perspective this is actually really great for GB scum to say this. If GB scum says we're only lynching inactives, it's easy to get town support because no one likes inactives. Reading active people is hard so it's really easy to fake scum reads on inactive players. Indeed this fits best with GB's style this game because he asserts he is "reaction fishing" when in reality this is just a thin veil to look for town sentiment. Similarly in the previous game where he was scum, GB was more than willing to let LS, his scum teammate, live on day 1 but instead he wanted to push someone like Stutters who wasn't doing shit.
Why else would he ask me whether I would lynch VA randomly yet offer none of his own thought process? This in particular is very scummy because he was the one that prodded me for not providing opinions, yet when I do he offers absolutely nothing in return! At no point did GB actually make any sort of reasonable attempt to work with me despite claiming to want to do so. Indeed, he actually undermines what I am doing by saying that I am not attempting to get town to consolidate yet being the biggest offender by far of the very things he is accusing others of doing. Lastly, the whole "we're not going to lynch actives" thing is great for his scum style because as he proved in the last game, he is a very active scum player. When pushing the idea that we shouldn't lynch active players because it's a bad idea, he's masking his own style as scum because he himself is an active scum player. It's merely a stone that he is using to knock out multiple birds at once-it's a play in his own self interest in multiple ways.
That coupled with his complete lack of reads and reasons this game pretty much confirms he is scum.
are you talking about this post ksc?
yeh and the one after
On June 19 2015 02:14 wherebugsgo wrote:
On June 19 2015 02:09 NydusHerMain wrote: I want to swap this to a bw on onegu but at the same time I'm okay with a bf lynch.
@bugs what's there not to get about what gb said? He's uneasy despite being one of the voters because it's got so many people voting on it whereas no one else is really up for vote consideration in comparison.
Gonna throw this out there and see if it sticks.
##Vote: onegu
If not, I'm fine with bf regardless.
what doesn't make sense is the fact that he is uneasy about the lack of consolidation yet he does exactly what he claims is making him uneasy. He doesn't attempt to consolidate and instead his reads are constantly changing and he's adding new people he thinks are scum all the time.
e.g. why would he bother to say that he's going to write up a case on breshke? I feel if that actually gets posted it's going to derail the thread even further rather than give us any further indication on who is scum. Given that his vote is on BF I would expect him to try to convince the rest of us to consolidate on BF, because that's what he says he expects other people to be doing-consolidating.
It's also nearly impossible to know what he thinks because he refuses to work to flesh out reads despite claiming that it is what he wanted to do with me. He asked me maybe 2-3 one liner questions that ended up going nowhere because when I responded to him he gave nothing in return. That's quite odd for someone who claimed that collaboration is important in getting together a strong town day 1.
If he unvotes BF and ends up voting someone else this will pretty much prove what I'm talking about. He might OMGUS me or maybe he'll go through with his statement on Breshke but even now it doesn't appear that he was genuine about his talk about consolidation and about his talk about collaboration.
eh. to me that just read like a lot of "i don't like the way this guy plays". his first thing is just disagreeing with the policy of lynching inactives day 1 and i don't buy his scum motivation he is selling. then he talks about GB being all over the place and intentionally fracturing the thread. he is all over the place always?
let me try on what HF quoted and see if i like that better.
go on page 82 and read what GB said about my play in the previous game, then look at the posts he quoted.
he said last game I was willing to policy lynch lurkers, despite the post he quoted literally saying that I thought there were better lynches than lurker lynches and I wanted people to stop trying to lynch lurkers and instead join me on the wagon that I was leading on LS. (who, by the way, flipped scum that day).
GB was scum in that game and I actually suspected him day 1 as well. When I did so he acted exactly like he did here, OMGUSing me and flinging mud at me. So many people disagreed with me that day that I actually went back and reevaluated and instead tunneled his teammate LS, who was also fairly active but really scummy. This time his play again looks very similar, but now that I know what scum GB looks like I'm not going to back off.
On June 19 2015 05:24 Fidei86 wrote: @Kel I'm around, keeping tabs on the thread while I'm at work. For what it's worth, and it's probably not much, I agree with GB's sentiment here. A d1 lynch is pretty unlikely to succeed. In the last game I was in (HG) the top three wagons on d1 were all town. This game has been 20 times less likely to actually find a scum imo, given that we're almost at ninety pages after 2 days. PSA: People, your spam and OMGUS'ing is not helpful. You make it super easy for mafia just to blend in to the noise, and you make it super hard for townies (like me) to actually engage with what's going on. If you have a case, please MAKE IT, then let other people actually read it. Don't just keep spamming back and forth. If you're town, you're NEVER going to convince a mafia that they are mafia - they'll keep protesting their innocence until they are lynched. Same if they're town. The people you have to convince is everyone else, and frankly I'm just kind of turned off by all this.
So, back to GB - he's posting, people can get reads on him, and those reads will only get stronger and more accurate over time. Worst case if we don't lynch him is that he's mafia and we catch him later. However, if we do lynch him, we're missing the opportunity to lynch a scummy lurker. If you let the lurkers live, they just turn the later days into a coinflip for active town.
so literally your only reason for wanting to keep GB alive is because there's potentially a better, lurkier player out there?
Why don't you read the case on GB instead of using things that are not alignment indicative to get yourself off an actually good lynch?
Also it's rather ironic coming from you that we should lynch into the lurkers. I would place you near the top of a lurk list if I had to make one.
On June 19 2015 05:24 Fidei86 wrote: @Kel I'm around, keeping tabs on the thread while I'm at work. For what it's worth, and it's probably not much, I agree with GB's sentiment here. A d1 lynch is pretty unlikely to succeed. In the last game I was in (HG) the top three wagons on d1 were all town. This game has been 20 times less likely to actually find a scum imo, given that we're almost at ninety pages after 2 days. PSA: People, your spam and OMGUS'ing is not helpful. You make it super easy for mafia just to blend in to the noise, and you make it super hard for townies (like me) to actually engage with what's going on. If you have a case, please MAKE IT, then let other people actually read it. Don't just keep spamming back and forth. If you're town, you're NEVER going to convince a mafia that they are mafia - they'll keep protesting their innocence until they are lynched. Same if they're town. The people you have to convince is everyone else, and frankly I'm just kind of turned off by all this.
So, back to GB - he's posting, people can get reads on him, and those reads will only get stronger and more accurate over time. Worst case if we don't lynch him is that he's mafia and we catch him later. However, if we do lynch him, we're missing the opportunity to lynch a scummy lurker. If you let the lurkers live, they just turn the later days into a coinflip for active town.
Lynching lurkers Day 1 isn't optimal play when you can lynch scum imo.
... I mean, that's obviously true (to the extent that it's basically a truism). My point is that I don't think we have a very good chance of catching a scum today. This thread has been a dumpster, where most people who aren't involved in the OMGUS/tit-for-tat are probably just finding their strongest town read (for me it's Rsoult btw) and sheeping them. But at least if we lynch a lurker, we guarantee that we make it harder for mafia to keep lurking and blending in.
I recognise that there's sort of a logical tension here - I'm saying that we should lynch lurkers, but I'm also saying that all this volume of posting is also seriously town-detrimental. I guess I'm just an optimist, as I think people will eventually run out of steam soon and then we can start having some actually quasi-serious discussions.
There seems to be this sort of implication here that what we've had so far is not serious.
What makes you say that the GB lynch has not been substantiated in serious discussion? Like 6-7 people have commented on it and we have a fairly wide array of perspectives and information that went into it. I put a chunk in re: GB's misrepresentation of my play, KSC pointed out how his Breshke case was terrible (speaking of Breshke, where the hell is he?) VA and Shockeyy pointed out elements of his meta that fit to his play here, and HF has provided his own opinions and corroboration of GB's play from previous games as well. Individually I think all of those pieces of information are pretty valuable and strong on their own, but together they are the strongest indication that we have the correct lynch for today.
OTOH when you look at the BF case it's mostly people just whining that they don't like his posting style and his activity. That doesn't really inspire confidence to me.
On June 19 2015 05:24 Fidei86 wrote: @Kel I'm around, keeping tabs on the thread while I'm at work. For what it's worth, and it's probably not much, I agree with GB's sentiment here. A d1 lynch is pretty unlikely to succeed. In the last game I was in (HG) the top three wagons on d1 were all town. This game has been 20 times less likely to actually find a scum imo, given that we're almost at ninety pages after 2 days. PSA: People, your spam and OMGUS'ing is not helpful. You make it super easy for mafia just to blend in to the noise, and you make it super hard for townies (like me) to actually engage with what's going on. If you have a case, please MAKE IT, then let other people actually read it. Don't just keep spamming back and forth. If you're town, you're NEVER going to convince a mafia that they are mafia - they'll keep protesting their innocence until they are lynched. Same if they're town. The people you have to convince is everyone else, and frankly I'm just kind of turned off by all this.
So, back to GB - he's posting, people can get reads on him, and those reads will only get stronger and more accurate over time. Worst case if we don't lynch him is that he's mafia and we catch him later. However, if we do lynch him, we're missing the opportunity to lynch a scummy lurker. If you let the lurkers live, they just turn the later days into a coinflip for active town.
so literally your only reason for wanting to keep GB alive is because there's potentially a better, lurkier player out there?
Why don't you read the case on GB instead of using things that are not alignment indicative to get yourself off an actually good lynch?
Also it's rather ironic coming from you that we should lynch into the lurkers. I would place you near the top of a lurk list if I had to make one.
That's a fair point, but let me put it to you like this. I work 12 hour days a lot of the time. Sure, I can mostly keep up with the thread. But when it's back and forth nonstop, mostly with partially thought through arguments, BM, off-topic chitchat and otherwise, how are people like me supposed to get an edge in. I made four substantive posts last night on four different people and I don't think I got a single comment on them, really, except one from Brez. When I look at your back and forth with GB, I feel like I basically have to go back to the start of the game to understand where it truly came from, which is 90 pages worth of mostly trash.
you're right, and I agree with you. While I would consider you a lower activity poster I actually like the way you think and you pretty much exemplify what I was talking about earlier with respect to activity not being alignment indicative.
In this game I agree that there are some players who are not contributing that much, but like you said some or all of them very well could be town and just be discouraged from posting due to the sheer amounts of content (or filler) being constantly being dumped. That's actually an argument in favor of not lynching players like BF, who post rarely but when they do post you can actually make the argument that from a town perspective the reason that they sound the way they do is just because they have been discouraged from posting.
I think the only legitimately scummy lurker I would consider lynching right now is Onegu, but that's less because he's lurking and more because he actively admitted that he had a town read on LS but is still wasting his vote by leaving it on LS.
On June 19 2015 05:39 Fidei86 wrote: Well, I suppose I didn't mean that it wasn't serious, just that it isn't helpful. People need time in this game to re-read and re-consider posts, and to think about what people have said. I don't think that's what we have at the moment. No doubt somewhere in these pages there are some mafia slips, but we're likely going to miss them in the sheer volume.
That said, I'll go back and look over the GB debate again, since I should probably develop an opinion on it if it's all we're going to fight about for the next week ^^. I don't suppose I could be super lazy and ask you to give me a useful starting point (preferably one not before page 70, lol).
A good starting point would be around page 80, I guess 82 is the most relevant one.
On June 19 2015 05:39 rsoultin wrote: okay okay okay
enough
we don't need this wbg/fidei sidebar. if you're trying to get reads on each other save it for night
the time for pokes and prods and spam and shitfights is past, ne?
wbg, either your most concise post on the case against gb, please, or better yet break it down for me in short bullet format so i can see if it matches what i see when i dive gb
the other wagon is bf...and maybe ls?
main points against them if they've changed but i'm pretty sure i've caught up as it is on those two
i don't want to see any more talk right now about anyone you don't want to ACTUALLY LYNCH this day phase, and please cut out the sidebar conversations
thank you -_-
just read page 82 onward. My initial scum read of him was greatly strengthened by how he started attacking me back later, and then he slipped really hard several times. The initial read was primarily based on GB flipping his read of LS after LS claimed named VT, which I thought that a townie would not do. I also found it odd that he kept pushing low-hanging fruit like VA and despite stating that he wanted to consolidate or collaborate with me he never asked me anything or gave me any sort of real feedback on reads besides that one poke about whether I wanted to lynch VA. Anyway, from page 82 onward here's what happened.
1. GB claimed that it is antitown to not help town pare down the lynch list despite the fact that he himself was throwing reads around on multiple players. Indeed his latest case was on Breshke, someone I consider likely to be town and very unlikely to get lynched this cycle. Rather odd for GB to claim that not consolidating is antitown yet make a case on someone who's not gonna get lynched.
2. He claimed I was very willing to lynch lurkers last game, here:
Bugs you're scum because last game you were very inclined to lynch lurkers or at least tried to put pressure in them.
Which I called out as a misrepresentation of my play. In the previous game I tried to get him and LS lynched on day 1, both of whom were ACTIVE MAFIA.
3. He decided to double down on the above and I posted this in response to him: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/487093-mafia-in-the-himalayas?page=83#1641 As you can see he quoted two sets of posts I made from the previous game in an attempt to say that I am scum here because I am not willing to lynch into lurkers. That was obviously not the case then and it's not the case now.
4. KSC's response to GB's Breshke "case" which was overall super shitty
5. VA and Shockeyy's points re: GB getting fake mad and typing in all caps as scum, with two different games as reference (last game in Witch in which myself and Shockeyy played against his scum and GoT mafia from VA)
6. HF's points and reinforcement of most of these things from his own perspective
Rsoultin and ritoky, is there anyone from here you don't want to lynch today?
the problem is that is a list of low post count/low hanging fruit in a lot of cases which means i am probably wrong somewhere, but w/e.
breshke and fid would be the last 2 i lynch on that list atm, but if a case was made that was good i could be convinced.
Lost post count is exactly what made this list + some scummy things in some of the filters. Like, if I had to put in order form LYNCH NOW to DUNNO LOL, it would be something like this:
On June 19 2015 05:54 Mig wrote: I am on my phone, but got caught up
Ritoky - Guess what I dont know everyones alignment, if someone says something that looks townie to me I will say it. I didnt say that post made LS town but it made me reconsider the possibility of it. Explain to me how exactly this makes me mafia.
GB- are you voting BF because you think there is a good chance he flips scum or just to save yourself?
If the caps lock stuck isnt AI can you post an example of you doing it as town? I cant look through past games atm.
Rsoultin and ritoky, is there anyone from here you don't want to lynch today?
the problem is that is a list of low post count/low hanging fruit in a lot of cases which means i am probably wrong somewhere, but w/e.
breshke and fid would be the last 2 i lynch on that list atm, but if a case was made that was good i could be convinced.
Lost post count is exactly what made this list + some scummy things in some of the filters. Like, if I had to put in order form LYNCH NOW to DUNNO LOL, it would be something like this:
it seems kinda out of nowhere given his posting up to this point
his flip on Onegu was also really weird given that when he was town in another game he claimed that not giving reasons for reads/actions is scummy.
???
i see a reason in his filter, but if you want to ask him you can (like literally i'm looking at it right now lol ><)
if you mean that post in which he says he reevaluated because Onegu is lazy or whatever, I don't count that in his favor given that he says shit like this:
On June 19 2015 02:45 wherebugsgo wrote: also the thing on Mig is another lie. I didn't want to disclose my read on Mig and I didn't really have an interest in discussing anything with him because there was already so much going on and I needed to catch up. I also didn't ignore him at all which is a huge red flag for GB that he is clearly not reading my posts. Proof in point here:
On June 18 2015 23:24 wherebugsgo wrote:
On June 18 2015 23:13 rsoultin wrote: God im scattered today sorry.
Also read on mig wbg since you know him better and wanted him to post. I'm a sucker for logic. Can he post like this as scum?
Mig is pretty terrible as scum and a couple of his posts are actually pretty decent. They appear to be indicative that he is actually reading, which is a good sign.
Mig is one of those players where if it looks like he is not reading he's probably scum. Even though he doesn't post much, as town he tends to make sense whereas when he is scum his reads aren't generally logically sensible. For example he pointed out that GB had no proper scum reads 55 pages in which is actually a pretty astute and subtle point. Like, sure, GB called some people scum but at no point in the game did he actually do anything about them-most of the time he's fishing for sentiment (e.g. asking me about VA) and in the LS case he was like "ok I'm gonna vote him too" and then he backed off at resistance from me.
The tone and attitude in this post:
On June 18 2015 08:37 Mig wrote: Gbs plan is to try and look scummy, contribute nothing and then if you discuss anyone besides him calls you suspicious. Solid.
Do you actually believe any of my posts are coming from a mafia mindset Gb? Or are you just trying to paint me poorly since I actually questioned your posts.
also made me feel much better about Mig because as I mentioned his mafia play is pretty shitty and this came off really strongly. I don't think scum Mig would make a post with this kind of bold response.
here I responded to rsoultin's question on Mig. Saying that I've ignored him is wholly disingenuous and another reason GB is scum.
LOL yeah, you ANSWERED a DIRECTED QUESTION. Congrats, you're totally not ignoring someone you SHOULD be interacting with WITHOUT being needed to being asked for.
Argh, get out
you should probably hold a player to their own standards when it comes to read reasoning. Prior to him being asked this he didn't provide any reason to flip his read on Onegu, and in all honesty in the end saying you have a town read because he is lazy is not much of a reason in the first place
On June 19 2015 05:39 rsoultin wrote: okay okay okay
enough
we don't need this wbg/fidei sidebar. if you're trying to get reads on each other save it for night
the time for pokes and prods and spam and shitfights is past, ne?
wbg, either your most concise post on the case against gb, please, or better yet break it down for me in short bullet format so i can see if it matches what i see when i dive gb
the other wagon is bf...and maybe ls?
main points against them if they've changed but i'm pretty sure i've caught up as it is on those two
i don't want to see any more talk right now about anyone you don't want to ACTUALLY LYNCH this day phase, and please cut out the sidebar conversations
thank you -_-
just read page 82 onward. My initial scum read of him was greatly strengthened by how he started attacking me back later, and then he slipped really hard several times. The initial read was primarily based on GB flipping his read of LS after LS claimed named VT, which I thought that a townie would not do. I also found it odd that he kept pushing low-hanging fruit like VA and despite stating that he wanted to consolidate or collaborate with me he never asked me anything or gave me any sort of real feedback on reads besides that one poke about whether I wanted to lynch VA. Anyway, from page 82 onward here's what happened.
1. GB claimed that it is antitown to not help town pare down the lynch list despite the fact that he himself was throwing reads around on multiple players. Indeed his latest case was on Breshke, someone I consider likely to be town and very unlikely to get lynched this cycle. Rather odd for GB to claim that not consolidating is antitown yet make a case on someone who's not gonna get lynched.
2. He claimed I was very willing to lynch lurkers last game, here:
Bugs you're scum because last game you were very inclined to lynch lurkers or at least tried to put pressure in them.
Which I called out as a misrepresentation of my play. In the previous game I tried to get him and LS lynched on day 1, both of whom were ACTIVE MAFIA.
3. He decided to double down on the above and I posted this in response to him: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/487093-mafia-in-the-himalayas?page=83#1641 As you can see he quoted two sets of posts I made from the previous game in an attempt to say that I am scum here because I am not willing to lynch into lurkers. That was obviously not the case then and it's not the case now.
4. KSC's response to GB's Breshke "case" which was overall super shitty
5. VA and Shockeyy's points re: GB getting fake mad and typing in all caps as scum, with two different games as reference (last game in Witch in which myself and Shockeyy played against his scum and GoT mafia from VA)
6. HF's points and reinforcement of most of these things from his own perspective
1. eh, that's explained by him assuming that his list is The List, which that level of egocentrism is more likely town than scum, and breshke topped his list
What? Topped his list how? Breshke was a townread in his list, here:
On June 17 2015 11:51 GlowingBear wrote:
Actual Listpost v1.0
Probs town
Breshke (thinking critically about the game)
On June 19 2015 06:05 rsoultin wrote: 2. his defense for this point is fine, actually, unless you're completely unwilling to lynch lurkers?
Given that you did not play in the previous game with us, I can potentially understand why you think this, but no, his defense was not fine. I am not willing to lynch lurkers when there are scummier people to lynch. This is not a binary "I do not want to lynch lurkers" or "I want to lynch lurkers" kind of problem and thinking in that way is oversimplifying the issue. The issue is that he misconstrued my play as saying I was willing to policy lynch lurkers in the previous game which a blatant misrepresentation.
On June 19 2015 06:05 rsoultin wrote: 3. eh...sadly i think you both are misrepresenting each other's arguments here tbh
Then you're not reading my posts properly. Or his, for that matter. Context matters, just go look at how he represents my play from the previous games and read the posts he quoted from Witchcraft. Ask LS if you need more confirmation, he was scum with GB that game and he agrees with me.
On June 19 2015 06:05 rsoultin wrote: 4. already said don't really care if gb made a bad case. he does that. nai
It's not just the case being bad, it's the way he presented it. Why would he spend 5-10 posts talking about how he's going to post a case on Breshke instead of just doing it without telegraphing it so hard? Why does he need to spend that time making it look like he's about to contribute something if he's town?
On June 19 2015 06:05 rsoultin wrote: 5. all caps he's done as town. again. nai
On June 19 2015 06:06 Holyflare wrote: onegu, shockey, yamato, ritoky and mig with the wasted votes and a lot of people completely ignoring what i write about bf
sweeeeet
even if you're right that it's more null than scum, hf, i'm not seeing how most of this makes gb scum but i'm still parsing through it
hypocrisy doesn't make people scum contradictions don't misrepresentations don't (people misunderstand things or see things differently all the time)
you know what i'm saying?
i just need to skip ahead to the ls read i think that's where the real money here is :/
no, none of those things made any sense.
Townies don't misrepresent people so blatantly, they would at least admit they are wrong when like five different people point to evidence that shows them how they are wrong.
Yet despite that happening GB continued to insist and flail around that what he said was true even though it was a complete lie.
Fabrications are entirely scum-motivated, it makes almost no sense for a townie to say what GB said regarding how I view the game.
On June 19 2015 06:16 rsoultin wrote: and no i don't have a ton of time to do all the research necessary for this so it needs to be something concrete and powerful rather than a collection of nitty gritty...i just...i don't think he's scum -_-
there's too much lightness and back and forth and reactivity and i know he's not good at reproducing that as scum. i know that i know that i know he's not. it's what made it so obvious when i read his smurf filter...he was focused on one thing for PAGES which isn't him, even when he's tunneled
wat
that's literally what he's doing this game re: his scum read of me.
The only difference is that he's probably self-aware of that now and his scum game actually isn't that bad. He was fairly convincing to everyone last game that he wasn't scum and they all yelled at me then for calling him scum.
On June 19 2015 04:50 GlowingBear wrote: I want you guys calling me scum to explain this:
1) Why would I bother building a case on Breshke if boxerfred is town? I could simply just agree with Holyflare and lynch him and fuck off.
2) Why would I call out tunnelus maximus bugs as mafia, knowing he would go against me? Why drawing so much attention?
3) Why would I, as mafia, intentionally flip my reads and call people mafia instead of keeping cool blending in with possible town?
4) Why would I bother creating a lynch list and try to organise town?
5) Why would, as mafia, call LS out but NOT voting him, unless we are mafia together? But as you can see, we can't be mafia together because he is willing to lynch me out of nothing.
On June 19 2015 04:50 GlowingBear wrote: I want you guys calling me scum to explain this:
1) Why would I bother building a case on Breshke if boxerfred is town? I could simply just agree with Holyflare and lynch him and fuck off.
2) Why would I call out tunnelus maximus bugs as mafia, knowing he would go against me? Why drawing so much attention?
3) Why would I, as mafia, intentionally flip my reads and call people mafia instead of keeping cool blending in with possible town?
4) Why would I bother creating a lynch list and try to organise town?
5) Why would, as mafia, call LS out but NOT voting him, unless we are mafia together? But as you can see, we can't be mafia together because he is willing to lynch me out of nothing.
I want you all to answer these.
1) You have done absolutely no cases the entire thread and it's been 48 hours and you basically had no scum reads, I and several others had called you out for this. You were forced to make a case and it was bad as a result.
2) You have a MAJOR HABIT OF DOING THIS. Do not sit there and ask me why when in Game of Thrones YOU DID THE EXACT SAME THING TO ME WHEN YOU WERE MAFIA ROFL.
3) to appear "carefree" since someone has mentioned multiple times that you don't stick to people as mafia or whatever, the flaw is that you had little reasoning and absolutely no follow up and little care about what happened
4) lynching lurkers is the easiest cop out and YOU DIDN'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT ANY OF THE CASES TO LYNCH MAFIA..............!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
5) because you suck and know he does it as town all the fucking time and you'd look terrible if he flipped named vt
1) I wasn't FORCED, I did becauase I wanted to. He looks mafia to me. I could simply NOT make a case and survive if I was mafia.
2) I don't usually go after the big names when I'm mafia, this is not true.
3) So you think I would be THIS careless as scum? I've posted a full thought process in my reads in Game of Thrones Mafia. You know I'm capable of doing it, and incredibly, I do it better as scum.
4) You know I always advocate that as town. As mafia, of course I could use the plynch as a cop out, but I would NOT open the possibilities to town to CHOOSE who not to lynch. I would take the other way: influence their reads instead letting them influence mine. UNLESS you think ALL mafia are active, letting town choose who to lynch is almost suicidal.
5) This is a lazy answer and you're lazy to think this through. Read my question again and think again.
On June 19 2015 03:09 wherebugsgo wrote: actually rsoultin, Mig, Breshke and HF I want to read your opinions on GB too. Maybe at least one of you will respond so I have something to work with. We have like 5 hours and I don't want to lynch either BF or LS today
Quite clearly stated i scum read him and the reasons why. Will be back in about an hour to talk about stuff.
+gb where did i ever say the mafia team was all lurkers other than a sarcastic jab at you a while ago?
care to jog my memory? I recall you posting something pointing out the consolidation thing but you can pretend I'm a goldfish for the purposes of this exercise. I just want to know that you have real opinions I can trust.
But of course if you don't wanna play we can have it your way
Well it's on my last page of filter? Pretty much pushed gb all last night. Summary is:
Hypocritical outlook on the game between you and himself Sheeps me while expressing disdain for the sheep (game of thrones meta same) Reads + questions that don't get followed up, aka va stuff etc (scum read on me completely vanished too) Started to afk and not do shit Got called out by me and still didn't do shit apart from asking me useless questions Said boxerfed read was shit, stayed on wagon anyway because of his read on boxerfreds first post???? Randomly nitpicked ls for no reason and then gave him a town pass for stuff that ls had already done before the nitpicking Says game is bad because no consolidation but just flat out refuses to even read cases on scummy people did no scum hunting while complaining about no consolidation Lurker cop out reasoning Misrepresents you and breshke hardcore Fake rage (game of thrones meta same)
Probably shit tonne more that i forgot but this is top of my head
this is a good reason to vote for mafia gb
1st point: hypocritical is an arbitrary interpretation. 2nd point: just because I did that as scum doesn't mean I wouldn't do it as town. 3rd point: reads and questions that didn't follow up were part of reaction testing and information gathering, which I think is the best thing to do day1 4th point: I don't think they were useless - again, arbitrary interpretation 5th point: Never said your read was shit, I said I could see him coming from a town perspective from the things you wrote and that I scumread him for another interpretation that considered MORE than his first post. 6th point: got tunneled because he said some stupid shit and got outside the tunnel thanks to rsoultin. Again, why would I do this unless we are scum together? 7th point: I am giving reads on EVERYONE. If they aren't thourough, that's another matter. I refused to TALK about active people because we could deal with them on day2, but since EVERYONE completely IGNORED this plead, I started calling out things. I attempt to consolidate by building a lynch list. 8th point: Lurker policy lynch is something I always do day1 as town, stop being stupid 9th point: Fake rage was 1 post and I always do that as town, you can't compare ONE SINGLE CAPS LOCK to what happened in Game of Thrones. It is completely different.
On June 19 2015 04:50 GlowingBear wrote: I want you guys calling me scum to explain this:
1) Why would I bother building a case on Breshke if boxerfred is town? I could simply just agree with Holyflare and lynch him and fuck off.
not alignment indicative. Also doesn't play to your style as mafia anyway so this is a completely moot point. Why telegraph for like 5 posts that you are ABOUT to post a case on Breshke instead of just posting it outright? We could come up with a hundred different completely null questions just like this one, none of them say anything about your alignment.
What does say a lot about your alignment is how shitty that Breshke case was, though.
On June 19 2015 04:50 GlowingBear wrote: 2) Why would I call out tunnelus maximus bugs as mafia, knowing he would go against me? Why drawing so much attention?
Another alignment-null point. You called me mafia when you were scum last game, so this is obviously not alignment indicative. You've already proven that as mafia you're willing to OMGUS people, and it happens to be amazingly convenient that last game it was me.
On June 19 2015 04:50 GlowingBear wrote: 3) Why would I, as mafia, intentionally flip my reads and call people mafia instead of keeping cool blending in with possible town?
Another alignment-null point. Both alignments flip their reads when they think they need to. Town do it when they think they are wrong or unlikely to be sheeped and scum do it when they think they have more to gain out of killing someone else or appearing better because they decided to go against a wagon when they know the wagon is going to result in killing a townie. And again this does not hash with your style as mafia where you can actually be very up front and confrontational, e.g. last game. "Blending in" is not necessarily a universal scum trait.
On June 19 2015 04:50 GlowingBear wrote: 4) Why would I bother creating a lynch list and try to organise town?
Any scum can create a lynch list and I even pointed it out earlier in the game. One of the hallmarks of scum is providing laundry lists of "reads". You also didn't try to organise town despite saying how much you wanted it. You could've asked me lots of questions after I agreed that we should work together yet you asked me things that were apparently for "reaction testing". Instead of organising and talking to people you threw around unbased reads and never once followed through on a suspicion except when I started pushing you seriously and you decided to OMGUS me. Nice attempt at making yourself look better, though. Too bad I caught it too quickly for you.
On June 19 2015 04:50 GlowingBear wrote: 5) Why would, as mafia, call LS out but NOT voting him, unless we are mafia together? But as you can see, we can't be mafia together because he is willing to lynch me out of nothing.
I want you all to answer these.
Oh cool, another alignment-null indicator. Sometimes mafia are unwilling to vote for people they call out because they know when they're wrong they'll take attention. So perhaps you know that you are wrong about LS and you don't want to call him out. Of course it would also look really desperate for you to switch from BF to LS on shaky and weak reasoning, particularly if you have to fabricate it, because that's really hard.
WBG: 5 GB: 0
Oh and if you actually believe BF is scum with me perhaps you should try to convince others why we should lynch BF over you, since there's 0 chance I'm going to die today and your vote hasn't moved, so I assume you're not even going to try to get me lynched. But, despite saying you want to organise town you have made no effort to organise an effort behind BF.
WBG: 6 GB: 0
We could do this all day, though sadly there's only 30 minutes left.
On June 19 2015 06:16 rsoultin wrote: and no i don't have a ton of time to do all the research necessary for this so it needs to be something concrete and powerful rather than a collection of nitty gritty...i just...i don't think he's scum -_-
there's too much lightness and back and forth and reactivity and i know he's not good at reproducing that as scum. i know that i know that i know he's not. it's what made it so obvious when i read his smurf filter...he was focused on one thing for PAGES which isn't him, even when he's tunneled
wat
that's literally what he's doing this game re: his scum read of me.
The only difference is that he's probably self-aware of that now and his scum game actually isn't that bad. He was fairly convincing to everyone last game that he wasn't scum and they all yelled at me then for calling him scum.
dude
i literally
called him out
by looking at his filter for two minutes that game
so when you speak to me about how "good" his scumgame is, realize that his "good" scumgame i caught in seconds. i'm not saying you couldn't be right on his alignment but i'm saying it's the read you're trashing that allowed me to catch him
and no, he's not focusing solely on you, wbg...not at all looking at his filter :/
hf...i told you i don't have the time for the nitty gritty so stop trying to bully me...it makes me want to kick you in the ankles and run away laughing
you're not good, and it doesn't matter because literally no one can validate what you are saying and it wasn't in a game.
You have 0 substantiation for any of your points in his defense, like literally the only thing we have to go off is your word. It's pretty flimsy in a game where evidence is supremely important
On June 19 2015 06:23 ShoCkeyy wrote: Ok this is twice I've been ignored. Just going to park my vote here until 10mins before lynch time. Let's see what happens.
##unvote ##vote GlowingBear
You know you've just put me in majority even if you Unvote.
I'd also lynch you in a pinch.
PLEASE, GLOWINGBEAR VOTERS, REPEAT WITH ME: "I WILL ALWAYS THINK TWICE BEFORE LYNCHING ONE OF THE BIGGEST FILTERS DAY1"
On June 19 2015 06:23 ShoCkeyy wrote: Ok this is twice I've been ignored. Just going to park my vote here until 10mins before lynch time. Let's see what happens.
##unvote ##vote GlowingBear
You know you've just put me in majority even if you Unvote.
I'd also lynch you in a pinch.
PLEASE, GLOWINGBEAR VOTERS, REPEAT WITH ME: "I WILL ALWAYS THINK TWICE BEFORE LYNCHING ONE OF THE BIGGEST FILTERS DAY1"
you talking about big filters all game makes me really question how much stock I want to put into your posting early in the game when obviously you have it in your head that people are averse to lynching active players.
On June 19 2015 06:31 Mig wrote: Bugs/hf, thoughts on boxer's return?
his penultimate post seemed pretty genuine. if we take a look at it:
On June 19 2015 06:14 boxerfred wrote: Well I don't like GB's case on Breshke. I feel like Kelsier's points on that case are genuine and since he's a town read of me (well let's see if that read holds when I actually catch up to the thread) that makes them even stronger to me. Can't follow the meta stuff on GB really I guess I just have to trust what bugs says there - the quoted post from GoT mafia is a rather strong indicator though.
I think the weak case on Breshke makes GB look scummy since it comes at a point where he's under pressure. I think the posting behaviour (caps and emotional stuff) makes him look scummy, too. Also, he votes me because he's okay with lurkers, doesn't unvote for breshke however although he made a case on him?
On June 19 2015 05:46 Holyflare wrote: I don't feel nearly as good about bf as i do gb
On June 19 2015 05:08 Holyflare wrote:
On June 19 2015 05:06 ritoky wrote: okay from HF's thing i remember the vanishing onegu read and the lack of follow-up on VA stuff which was kinda scummy.
any1 gonna try to convince me on BF, or is that just a wagon full of AFKs?
ok the thing is about bf is he was a major major point of contention in the last game the entire game and constantly looked scummy so now i'm getting the willies since i think gb is mafia and he was quite fucking happy to just afk on bf with his hipster only first post read and bf has promised he'd play tomorrow so i'm kindddddd of willing to let it slide
especially with this mafia gb trying to throw shit in every direction to people scum reading him and then asking loaded questions where he's prepared the worst/most fake answers ever
dunno how many times i have to requote this before i get people to unvote bf
Yeah but his posting there was quite different than his posting here.
Also, here he is coming back to the thread just before deadline to vote to save himself.
eehhhhhhhhh
My vote does not save me. I learned that the hard way in my first newbie game. It's tied 6-6, and afaik I'm still supposed to be hanged. Also, I said I have 10 minutes to spend and I just did that. I really want to contribute to this game but I have to read almost a hundred pages (of which I've read like 20? so far and picked some random pages because I was told to (82ish)).
I get the whole "he's afk so kill him" story but you need to consider that I'll be around tomorrow, and the next day, and so on. In my last game, I said before I joined that I have an exam on 19th june so that's not a lie at all. Please consider lynchign someone who actually might be scum over someone who's just afk and can still be lynched the next day. I mean, seriously - you lynch me without having much to read me on, making it what chances exactly? while you seemingly do have at least indicators about GB being scum.
:/ well your choice guys.
Like he legitimately seems overwhelmed here. I doubt he is lying about his exams, and he displayed a similar attitude in the game I hosted. I assume you agree here, otherwise I would find that pretty suspicious, given that you played with him.
In particular I like the last two paragraphs, especially the bolded. It's actually a subtly astute point that at 6-6 he still would've been lynched because he reached those votes first. Obviously that's not true anymore but given that he is a newer player I would not have expected him to take the time to think about that if he was scum. He'd probably just fuck off instead of bothering to post here, similar to what lazy scum do, even if they aren't necessarily new (e.g. what LS did from Witchcraft and even BM on day 2).
However tbh his return really doesn't factor in much to my read of him, not nearly as much as the other stuff he posted earlier in the game anyway.
Who are you going to vote today? Thoughts on GB and yamato?
On June 19 2015 06:40 Mig wrote: I am pretty fucking torn honestly. I know I said I was going to vote gb but boxers return is so shady. Obviously at least reading the thread, comes in and completely copies bugs/hf for why he thinks GB is scum and then disappears again.
yeah I guess.
idk the last posts he made do look a bit shady but his tone looks fairly genuine to me. Also his earlier posts were better than I think other people gave him credit for
On June 19 2015 07:15 LightningStrike wrote: FML I tried to get others to switch GB because the case on GB was much more concrete than the case on Boxerfred..............................
Slipping from the ledge, boxerfred has fallen into the abyss. Day 1 has ended.
after contemplating what happened at deadline after i've given countless reasons for gb to be mafia and to hold off lynch bf i've come to the conclusion that this is the most accurate vote count analysis
lol i really really hope i'm right just cause of the egos
that would make me laugh so hard
possibly for days
and if not well...i guess this is the last time gb can enjoy an rsoul defense for awhile xP so he'd better milk it while he can
yet you don't seem to give a shit that you were wrong on BF??
Slipping from the ledge, boxerfred has fallen into the abyss. Day 1 has ended.
after contemplating what happened at deadline after i've given countless reasons for gb to be mafia and to hold off lynch bf i've come to the conclusion that this is the most accurate vote count analysis
lol i really really hope i'm right just cause of the egos
that would make me laugh so hard
possibly for days
and if not well...i guess this is the last time gb can enjoy an rsoul defense for awhile xP so he'd better milk it while he can
yet you don't seem to give a shit that you were wrong on BF??
??
i said i thought gb was town and would vote bf or shockey to save him
so the lurker was town
okay, that sucks, but I DO NOT THINK this makes gb scum
should i give a damn someone who can't be read well (or at least hadn't shown any sign that he could) was lynched as town over someone i believe is town who actually plays the game?
like that answer makes no sense. it is YOUR fault that you lynched town because you voted for a townie. If you don't want to figure out why you were wrong it makes your play scummy.
So if you are really town you'll go back and reread all the shit we said on GB and reread everything that occurred while you were gone because you clearly have demonstrated an inability to read at least one player in the game so far.
Don't blame BF for him getting lynched when we know from his perspective that he was genuine given that he has flipped scum. That's a really convenient cop out given that the blame gets put on a player who no longer has any impact on the game.
Slipping from the ledge, boxerfred has fallen into the abyss. Day 1 has ended.
after contemplating what happened at deadline after i've given countless reasons for gb to be mafia and to hold off lynch bf i've come to the conclusion that this is the most accurate vote count analysis
lol i really really hope i'm right just cause of the egos
that would make me laugh so hard
possibly for days
and if not well...i guess this is the last time gb can enjoy an rsoul defense for awhile xP so he'd better milk it while he can
yet you don't seem to give a shit that you were wrong on BF??
??
i said i thought gb was town and would vote bf or shockey to save him
so the lurker was town
okay, that sucks, but I DO NOT THINK this makes gb scum
should i give a damn someone who can't be read well (or at least hadn't shown any sign that he could) was lynched as town over someone i believe is town who actually plays the game?
cause i don't xP
nice excuse for lynching town
you're probably scum too tbh
lol i'm the most confirmed town in existence
and yes
i will always
lynch a null or scumread
over a townread
and i WILL NOT apologize for it
so go point fingers somewhere else big boy
no shit if this is actually your mentality as town no wonder you're so terrible
just like oneguseless who, if town, wasted his vote for half the day on an alleged town read
also if there is anything that is to be learned from the BF push it is that there is most likely scum somewhere in there.
he was literally one of the lowest hanging fruit in the game. If there are no scum in that list of voters then I will literally take a self-imposed permaban from mafia in the postgame because if that's the case you're all terrible.
You don't even appear to be interested in this, and that is worrisome.
On June 19 2015 07:35 wherebugsgo wrote: like that answer makes no sense. it is YOUR fault that you lynched town because you voted for a townie. If you don't want to figure out why you were wrong it makes your play scummy.
So if you are really town you'll go back and reread all the shit we said on GB and reread everything that occurred while you were gone because you clearly have demonstrated an inability to read at least one player in the game so far.
Don't blame BF for him getting lynched when we know from his perspective that he was genuine given that he has flipped scum. That's a really convenient cop out given that the blame gets put on a player who no longer has any impact on the game.
lol i'm not blaming bf...you're misreading what i'm saying
i'm saying i don't care cause i think gb is still town so it doesn't matter
you can scumread me (well you can do whatever you want actually) but you can JUSTIFIABLY scumread me if i don't make an effort to reevaluate or whatever but presuming that i won't and basing your read on that is ludicrous
pull your head out your ass, kindly
i don't need the lecture and i don't care what you think, cause your bs doesn't change my role pm
it DOES matter because the best chance for us to hit scum tomorrow is to lynch into the boxerfred voting list.
Since we're around now why don't you give me your #1 scumread?
Slipping from the ledge, boxerfred has fallen into the abyss. Day 1 has ended.
after contemplating what happened at deadline after i've given countless reasons for gb to be mafia and to hold off lynch bf i've come to the conclusion that this is the most accurate vote count analysis
lol i really really hope i'm right just cause of the egos
that would make me laugh so hard
possibly for days
and if not well...i guess this is the last time gb can enjoy an rsoul defense for awhile xP so he'd better milk it while he can
yet you don't seem to give a shit that you were wrong on BF??
??
i said i thought gb was town and would vote bf or shockey to save him
so the lurker was town
okay, that sucks, but I DO NOT THINK this makes gb scum
should i give a damn someone who can't be read well (or at least hadn't shown any sign that he could) was lynched as town over someone i believe is town who actually plays the game?
cause i don't xP
nice excuse for lynching town
you're probably scum too tbh
lol i'm the most confirmed town in existence
and yes
i will always
lynch a null or scumread
over a townread
and i WILL NOT apologize for it
so go point fingers somewhere else big boy
no shit if this is actually your mentality as town no wonder you're so terrible
just like oneguseless who, if town, wasted his vote for half the day on an alleged town read
^^
you're just a walk in the park yourself. i'm not engaging with you until you decide to play the game again instead of just attacking me as a person
shoo
right, cause not engaging with literally the towniest person in the game is a great way to win this game. It's great how much you care! /s
On June 19 2015 07:35 wherebugsgo wrote: like that answer makes no sense. it is YOUR fault that you lynched town because you voted for a townie. If you don't want to figure out why you were wrong it makes your play scummy.
So if you are really town you'll go back and reread all the shit we said on GB and reread everything that occurred while you were gone because you clearly have demonstrated an inability to read at least one player in the game so far.
Don't blame BF for him getting lynched when we know from his perspective that he was genuine given that he has flipped scum. That's a really convenient cop out given that the blame gets put on a player who no longer has any impact on the game.
lol i'm not blaming bf...you're misreading what i'm saying
i'm saying i don't care cause i think gb is still town so it doesn't matter
you can scumread me (well you can do whatever you want actually) but you can JUSTIFIABLY scumread me if i don't make an effort to reevaluate or whatever but presuming that i won't and basing your read on that is ludicrous
pull your head out your ass, kindly
i don't need the lecture and i don't care what you think, cause your bs doesn't change my role pm
it DOES matter because the best chance for us to hit scum tomorrow is to lynch into the boxerfred voting list.
Since we're around now why don't you give me your #1 scumread?
no
i'm going to eat then review the game again
though i agree scum was probably on both wagons, for what it's worth
if I don't get something prior to the silence period I'm going to assume you are scum with GB
On June 19 2015 07:35 wherebugsgo wrote: like that answer makes no sense. it is YOUR fault that you lynched town because you voted for a townie. If you don't want to figure out why you were wrong it makes your play scummy.
So if you are really town you'll go back and reread all the shit we said on GB and reread everything that occurred while you were gone because you clearly have demonstrated an inability to read at least one player in the game so far.
Don't blame BF for him getting lynched when we know from his perspective that he was genuine given that he has flipped scum. That's a really convenient cop out given that the blame gets put on a player who no longer has any impact on the game.
lol i'm not blaming bf...you're misreading what i'm saying
i'm saying i don't care cause i think gb is still town so it doesn't matter
you can scumread me (well you can do whatever you want actually) but you can JUSTIFIABLY scumread me if i don't make an effort to reevaluate or whatever but presuming that i won't and basing your read on that is ludicrous
pull your head out your ass, kindly
i don't need the lecture and i don't care what you think, cause your bs doesn't change my role pm
it DOES matter because the best chance for us to hit scum tomorrow is to lynch into the boxerfred voting list.
Since we're around now why don't you give me your #1 scumread?
no
i'm going to eat then review the game again
though i agree scum was probably on both wagons, for what it's worth
if I don't get something prior to the silence period I'm going to assume you are scum with GB
...you do realize that threatening me is likely to achieve the opposite of the intended effect
i'll play the game the way i damn well please, and that includes trusting MY READS over yours, and taking the time to make those reads instead of adhering to your timetable
this behavior is not as helpful to town as you seem to thing it is
yes, cause trusting your read on BF has really worked out well for you so far.
That mentality again makes no sense if you are town because you've already been proven to be dead wrong
On June 19 2015 07:35 wherebugsgo wrote: like that answer makes no sense. it is YOUR fault that you lynched town because you voted for a townie. If you don't want to figure out why you were wrong it makes your play scummy.
So if you are really town you'll go back and reread all the shit we said on GB and reread everything that occurred while you were gone because you clearly have demonstrated an inability to read at least one player in the game so far.
Don't blame BF for him getting lynched when we know from his perspective that he was genuine given that he has flipped scum. That's a really convenient cop out given that the blame gets put on a player who no longer has any impact on the game.
lol i'm not blaming bf...you're misreading what i'm saying
i'm saying i don't care cause i think gb is still town so it doesn't matter
you can scumread me (well you can do whatever you want actually) but you can JUSTIFIABLY scumread me if i don't make an effort to reevaluate or whatever but presuming that i won't and basing your read on that is ludicrous
pull your head out your ass, kindly
i don't need the lecture and i don't care what you think, cause your bs doesn't change my role pm
it DOES matter because the best chance for us to hit scum tomorrow is to lynch into the boxerfred voting list.
Since we're around now why don't you give me your #1 scumread?
no
i'm going to eat then review the game again
though i agree scum was probably on both wagons, for what it's worth
if I don't get something prior to the silence period I'm going to assume you are scum with GB
...you do realize that threatening me is likely to achieve the opposite of the intended effect
i'll play the game the way i damn well please, and that includes trusting MY READS over yours, and taking the time to make those reads instead of adhering to your timetable
this behavior is not as helpful to town as you seem to thing it is
yes, cause trusting your read on BF has really worked out well for you so far.
That mentality again makes no sense if you are town because you've already been proven to be dead wrong
lol god you're annoying
you're acting like i was balls to the wall bf is scum
i was balls to the wall gb is town
if you can't understand that i don't know how to make it any clearer
i really am going to just ignore you if you can't manage rationality and civility...i don't need to talk to you to get reads or play the game
i've been nice
YOU failed to convince me gb is scum. YOUR points were weak. YOU have some of the responsibility as well...and especially if gb is town as i believe he is YOU should be reevaluating your reads just as much as the rest of us
no, the onus is not on me to reevaluate anything given that there is no evidence that GB is town. The onus is on YOU because you were proven to be wrong about at least one player.
I will reevaluate, based on who pushed boxerfred because I actually want to win this game, unlike you, who are only interested in passing blame around.
BTW how would you explain why GB is so certain there are 4 mafia in this game if he is not scum?
On June 19 2015 07:35 wherebugsgo wrote: like that answer makes no sense. it is YOUR fault that you lynched town because you voted for a townie. If you don't want to figure out why you were wrong it makes your play scummy.
So if you are really town you'll go back and reread all the shit we said on GB and reread everything that occurred while you were gone because you clearly have demonstrated an inability to read at least one player in the game so far.
Don't blame BF for him getting lynched when we know from his perspective that he was genuine given that he has flipped scum. That's a really convenient cop out given that the blame gets put on a player who no longer has any impact on the game.
lol i'm not blaming bf...you're misreading what i'm saying
i'm saying i don't care cause i think gb is still town so it doesn't matter
you can scumread me (well you can do whatever you want actually) but you can JUSTIFIABLY scumread me if i don't make an effort to reevaluate or whatever but presuming that i won't and basing your read on that is ludicrous
pull your head out your ass, kindly
i don't need the lecture and i don't care what you think, cause your bs doesn't change my role pm
it DOES matter because the best chance for us to hit scum tomorrow is to lynch into the boxerfred voting list.
Since we're around now why don't you give me your #1 scumread?
no
i'm going to eat then review the game again
though i agree scum was probably on both wagons, for what it's worth
if I don't get something prior to the silence period I'm going to assume you are scum with GB
...you do realize that threatening me is likely to achieve the opposite of the intended effect
i'll play the game the way i damn well please, and that includes trusting MY READS over yours, and taking the time to make those reads instead of adhering to your timetable
this behavior is not as helpful to town as you seem to thing it is
yes, cause trusting your read on BF has really worked out well for you so far.
That mentality again makes no sense if you are town because you've already been proven to be dead wrong
lol god you're annoying
you're acting like i was balls to the wall bf is scum
i was balls to the wall gb is town
if you can't understand that i don't know how to make it any clearer
i really am going to just ignore you if you can't manage rationality and civility...i don't need to talk to you to get reads or play the game
i've been nice
YOU failed to convince me gb is scum. YOUR points were weak. YOU have some of the responsibility as well...and especially if gb is town as i believe he is YOU should be reevaluating your reads just as much as the rest of us
no, the onus is not on me to reevaluate anything given that there is no evidence that GB is town. The onus is on YOU because you were proven to be wrong about at least one player.
I will reevaluate, based on who pushed boxerfred because I actually want to win this game, unlike you, who are only interested in passing blame around.
BTW how would you explain why GB is so certain there are 4 mafia in this game if he is not scum?
it's true that about 20% of the player base is usually scum? i guess it could be a scum slip but how often does that actually happen? lol
it's happened in one of my first games here, a long time ago, like 3-4 years.
Don't remember the exact details but the dude slipped in a closed setup with 24ish people that the scum KP had to be 2 because # KP = mafia / 2 or something like that, and the third KP had to be from a vig or SK. No idea why he said it but he ended up flipping scum.
On June 19 2015 08:02 Breshke wrote: HF i think him saying there is 4 mafia is a weak and doesn't really make him scum.
GB who is your top scumread as of now? Has your read on me changed at all?
Also not sidetrack anything but
On June 18 2015 22:46 LightningStrike wrote: Just woke up and had a question:
On June 18 2015 17:48 Breshke wrote: Actually when he is back next I want LS to explain WHY he claimed there.
I was tired of being pressured to the extreme from KSC so I claimed there......
Why does one person pressuring you make you claim when you know that is a bad play? One person alone can not lynch you and many others were townreading you.
Bugs, mig, Shockey
Yes, not you
What changed your read on me?
the impassioned defense of you from one of his scumreads, me.
this dude is scum, his reads are changing all the time because he's fabricating them and can't remember who he last fingered
On June 19 2015 08:15 GlowingBear wrote: Rsoultin, I think bugs is Mafia.
Am I tunneled?
omgusing maybe?
i can't toneread someone i've never played with
objectively even though i don't think most of his cases really have things in them that make people scum (he focuses on motivation narrative way too much for my liking, and just my experience with his case on me makes it clear how faulty that sort of focus can be) the fact that he seems to be bringing attention to people who otherwise aren't being scrutinized strikes me as townie?
i have no experience with what is or isn't in this guy's scum range, though
actually this is a pretty good post
maybe I'm wrong and you're not scum after all, just bad at finding scum
On June 19 2015 08:02 Breshke wrote: HF i think him saying there is 4 mafia is a weak and doesn't really make him scum.
GB who is your top scumread as of now? Has your read on me changed at all?
Also not sidetrack anything but
On June 18 2015 22:46 LightningStrike wrote: Just woke up and had a question:
On June 18 2015 17:48 Breshke wrote: Actually when he is back next I want LS to explain WHY he claimed there.
I was tired of being pressured to the extreme from KSC so I claimed there......
Why does one person pressuring you make you claim when you know that is a bad play? One person alone can not lynch you and many others were townreading you.
Because honestly I really dislike pressure on me esp when it was hardcore pressure (See Metal Mini and Newbie LX where I claimed VT under pressure) and felt like KSC was hardcore pressuring me.
But there is a difference between claiming VT and claiming blue. Even when the blue role is named VT. If you're town why do you care about being pressured especially when heaps of people thought you were town.
I just don't respond to pressure well and you know this -_-
So you would rather not be pressured which is a natural thing to happen in the game and instead have people flame you about claiming blue?
I think the later is worse and I don't understand why your dislike of being pressured is greater than your dislike of people saying your play was bad and getting angry at you.
sup dude.
do you actually think LS is scum or just bad? I'm trying to figure out why you are grilling him on this pressure thing and it doesn't quite make sense to me.
Also who do you think is scum right now? What do you think in particular of the later BF voters, e.g. NHM, Onegu, Mig, ShoCkeyy?
On June 19 2015 08:24 rsoultin wrote: (ftr bugs still think i'm right on gb despite that post he just posted that makes me twitch @.@, but yeah i'm not having much luck so far with the scumhunting this game i'll admit that readily...i feel like i'm having a better time with finding townreads and just hoping those are actually right)
supposing GB is not scum who do you actually think is?
You didn't bother to answer me before which is rather weird because if you are indeed town I would expect you to at least have some suspects
On June 19 2015 08:24 rsoultin wrote: (ftr bugs still think i'm right on gb despite that post he just posted that makes me twitch @.@, but yeah i'm not having much luck so far with the scumhunting this game i'll admit that readily...i feel like i'm having a better time with finding townreads and just hoping those are actually right)
supposing GB is not scum who do you actually think is?
You didn't bother to answer me before which is rather weird because if you are indeed town I would expect you to at least have some suspects
you have to realize that from the perspective of someone who is reading both wagons as town (bf flipped gb read) the game is still very open, yeah?
i have no real new information...i personally think i'll find scum in the least invested people in the lynch, which i need to review
i also am actually missing about 15 pages from the course of the day
va is an old read and i'm not content with discussing him on old information
so do you mind just waiting and allowing me to do my thing, please?
who cares? even if you think both wagons are town you have to have SOME suspicions.
like even if you are doing PoE it's literally impossible for you to not have suspects
also why would I bother giving you time to potentially fabricate shit when most of what you post is incredibly underwhelming? I would expect a townie to be able to give me something right off the bat instead of having to twiddle around for a while.
My read of you is like a roller coaster it seems. Every time I think one way I find reasons to flip back over again
On June 19 2015 08:02 Breshke wrote: HF i think him saying there is 4 mafia is a weak and doesn't really make him scum.
GB who is your top scumread as of now? Has your read on me changed at all?
Also not sidetrack anything but
On June 18 2015 22:46 LightningStrike wrote: Just woke up and had a question:
On June 18 2015 17:48 Breshke wrote: Actually when he is back next I want LS to explain WHY he claimed there.
I was tired of being pressured to the extreme from KSC so I claimed there......
Why does one person pressuring you make you claim when you know that is a bad play? One person alone can not lynch you and many others were townreading you.
Because honestly I really dislike pressure on me esp when it was hardcore pressure (See Metal Mini and Newbie LX where I claimed VT under pressure) and felt like KSC was hardcore pressuring me.
But there is a difference between claiming VT and claiming blue. Even when the blue role is named VT. If you're town why do you care about being pressured especially when heaps of people thought you were town.
I just don't respond to pressure well and you know this -_-
So you would rather not be pressured which is a natural thing to happen in the game and instead have people flame you about claiming blue?
I think the later is worse and I don't understand why your dislike of being pressured is greater than your dislike of people saying your play was bad and getting angry at you.
sup dude.
do you actually think LS is scum or just bad? I'm trying to figure out why you are grilling him on this pressure thing and it doesn't quite make sense to me.
Also who do you think is scum right now? What do you think in particular of the later BF voters, e.g. NHM, Onegu, Mig, ShoCkeyy?
I have no idea about LS. I feel like he is probably town but something about the claim really irks me because he did it because he dislikes pressure but he knows people will get pissed at him and fairly sure he would dislike that more. It is probably a case of being rewarded in the short term (stopping the ksc pressure) and not thinking about the later consequences (people getting pissed at him) if he is named VT so I'll probs drop it.
Ive missed a lot of pages because EoD is early morning here so idk about nydus i rememebr thinking he was pretty townie and liked his question to all BF voters even though it gor ignored
I dont care about onegu
I think mig is still scummy based off of the ritoky post. (same opion as last night)
Shockeyys question to GB the "why shouldnt i lynch you?" and then getting pissed he didnt answer is ridiculous and I think his switch to BF was the most weird. Would lynch.
I also think GB is still scum and that he most recent flip then not flip on me makes no sense
Yeah I agree for the most part.
I can potentially see one or two of Mig/Onegu/Shockeyy with GB being scum, I think they all look pretty bad. The thing though is each has some favorable points, e.g. Shockeyy actually had that post re GB's meta but then he ended up unvoting him and hammering boxerfred. Like if he legitimately thought GB was scum why the fuck would he hammer BF? If GB ends up being scum then I think Shockeyy is also very likely to flip scum for that reason cause that voting pattern makes very little sense.
And then there is Onegu who wasted his vote until the last moment on one of his supposed town reads. I'm not sure how more useless one can be. idk why but it almost feels as if the way he is taunting is in a sense like pushing the boundary of how much he can get away with. I didn't get this impression from him when I played with him in Witchcraft which is rather strange. There he seemed a bit trolly and self important but nothing like he is here.
My concern with Mig is kinda similar to Shockeyy in that he said he was going to vote for GB but then ended up voting BF. At the time he seemed to rationalize it fine but looking back it's pretty shady. He did ask me for opinions which I think as scum he'd probably be a bit wary of doing because I'm pretty sure he knows I can read him pretty well. So that is at least a positive, but I am looking for him to talk with me more tonight at the very least or I'd consider him scum if I end up dying tonight.
I gotta reread after this LS unclaim shit though..
On June 19 2015 08:42 rsoultin wrote: yeah ls/gb doesn't make much sense hf
blah i keep saying i'm going to get food
i need to
i'm out unless i have questions later...not gonna post again until i actually review the thread, eat your heart out wbg
and why is that
yes scum can bus but why when town bf is the other wagon?
is this a serious question?
he didn't die so how do we know either way
also since LS and GB were scum last game they very well could've told LS to bus GB because of the whole meta factor and all that shit. First of all who's gonna guess that they roll scum together two games in a row. Last time GB defended LS from dying day 1 and it's not out of the question that they could've decided to do it the other way around this time when GB started taking lynch attention from me. It actually makes sense now that I think about it because LS has been buddying me really hard all game
On June 19 2015 08:41 ritoky wrote: bugs/shockeyy/LS; ship it.
I don't know about bugs but the other two yeh i think so
bugs prompted shockeyy after he had been gone for hours, shockeyy shortly responded. sounds like someone knew he was here from a QT
this is such a huge stretch that it's ridiculous
if we were scum together and I knew he were there why would I make it so obvious. I'm not that retarded as scum, I would just PM him or tell him in the QT to post because I wouldn't want to out myself because one of my stupid scummy teammates isn't bothering to post
On June 19 2015 08:42 rsoultin wrote: yeah ls/gb doesn't make much sense hf
blah i keep saying i'm going to get food
i need to
i'm out unless i have questions later...not gonna post again until i actually review the thread, eat your heart out wbg
and why is that
yes scum can bus but why when town bf is the other wagon?
is this a serious question?
he didn't die so how do we know either way
also since LS and GB were scum last game they very well could've told LS to bus GB because of the whole meta factor and all that shit. First of all who's gonna guess that they roll scum together two games in a row. Last time GB defended LS from dying day 1 and it's not out of the question that they could've decided to do it the other way around this time when GB started taking lynch attention from me. It actually makes sense now that I think about it because LS has been buddying me really hard all game
everyone else gets it's unlikely
shouldn't that tell you something?
yeah, that they're likely to all be wrong just like they were wrong about BF
On June 19 2015 08:41 ritoky wrote: bugs/shockeyy/LS; ship it.
I don't know about bugs but the other two yeh i think so
bugs prompted shockeyy after he had been gone for hours, shockeyy shortly responded. sounds like someone knew he was here from a QT
this is such a huge stretch that it's ridiculous
if we were scum together and I knew he were there why would I make it so obvious. I'm not that retarded as scum, I would just PM him or tell him in the QT to post because I wouldn't want to out myself because one of my stupid scummy teammates isn't bothering to post
i think you're exactly that retarded
whatever you say trollbro
you should perhaps not try to apply your own level of scum play to everyone else and perhaps use Occam's razor so you don't end up sounding so stupid
On June 19 2015 08:41 ritoky wrote: bugs/shockeyy/LS; ship it.
I don't know about bugs but the other two yeh i think so
bugs prompted shockeyy after he had been gone for hours, shockeyy shortly responded. sounds like someone knew he was here from a QT
this is such a huge stretch that it's ridiculous
if we were scum together and I knew he were there why would I make it so obvious. I'm not that retarded as scum, I would just PM him or tell him in the QT to post because I wouldn't want to out myself because one of my stupid scummy teammates isn't bothering to post
i think you're exactly that retarded
whatever you say trollbro
you should perhaps not try to apply your own level of scum play to everyone else and perhaps use Occam's razor so you don't end up sounding so stupid
Sorry brochacho, but i have one of the highest winrates as scum on these forums. good try
ah, yes, the trap that results matter. You've been lynched 3 times out of 4 and someone even said you claimed RB in a game with no notifications.
On June 19 2015 08:42 Breshke wrote: LS I think it would be useful if you talked through the logic of unclaiming blue there
I also want you to hardclaim that you are VT. No going back on this.
I am VT this game and I unclaimed because everyone questioned my claim I didn't really expect to much on and decided enough was enough. I prob just replace out because I just can't play this game as last Friday a friend of mine from High School died in a Car Accident and I only found out after I signed up. I thought that I can play but then with the shit happening this game I can't play it anymore and will commit Sudoku.
I mean no offense to you or your situation personally; that sucks and I am sorry. However, that does not excuse your play and I am lynching your slot without question unless a vigi shoots you first regardless of if you sub out or not.
Are you willing to play against your win conditions?
Why are you fishing for modkills? You're BY FAR the most anti-town player in the game and towns victory. The ONLY reason you weren't lynched yesterday is your claim. It is invalid, so now the possibility of an anti-town blue is gone. You are scum. Die.
*and an impediment to towns victory
I done I not going to play nothing I will say or do will change your dumb mind.
don't quit LS.
despite me thinking your claim and subsequent unclaim was really stupid it doesn't actually make you scum and nothing some jubjubs say should make you quit.
On June 19 2015 08:41 ritoky wrote: bugs/shockeyy/LS; ship it.
I don't know about bugs but the other two yeh i think so
bugs prompted shockeyy after he had been gone for hours, shockeyy shortly responded. sounds like someone knew he was here from a QT
this is such a huge stretch that it's ridiculous
if we were scum together and I knew he were there why would I make it so obvious. I'm not that retarded as scum, I would just PM him or tell him in the QT to post because I wouldn't want to out myself because one of my stupid scummy teammates isn't bothering to post
i think you're exactly that retarded
whatever you say trollbro
you should perhaps not try to apply your own level of scum play to everyone else and perhaps use Occam's razor so you don't end up sounding so stupid
Sorry brochacho, but i have one of the highest winrates as scum on these forums. good try
ah, yes, the trap that results matter. You've been lynched 3 times out of 4 and someone even said you claimed RB in a game with no notifications.
I'll hedge my bet that you are just an idiot.
won 7 out of 8 yawn get on my level.
nice lie bro, you have 4 scum games in the DB and you got lynched 3 times.
Doesn't matter if your teammates carried you despite you claiming RB in a no notifications game.
On June 19 2015 08:42 Breshke wrote: LS I think it would be useful if you talked through the logic of unclaiming blue there
I also want you to hardclaim that you are VT. No going back on this.
I am VT this game and I unclaimed because everyone questioned my claim I didn't really expect to much on and decided enough was enough. I prob just replace out because I just can't play this game as last Friday a friend of mine from High School died in a Car Accident and I only found out after I signed up. I thought that I can play but then with the shit happening this game I can't play it anymore and will commit Sudoku.
I mean no offense to you or your situation personally; that sucks and I am sorry. However, that does not excuse your play and I am lynching your slot without question unless a vigi shoots you first regardless of if you sub out or not.
Are you willing to play against your win conditions?
Why are you fishing for modkills? You're BY FAR the most anti-town player in the game and towns victory. The ONLY reason you weren't lynched yesterday is your claim. It is invalid, so now the possibility of an anti-town blue is gone. You are scum. Die.
FUCK OFF
k, i won't post until my vote at the start of the day.
I already sent the pm to HTS and FF to replace out.
Wow..that is some pretty weak shit.
I really hope you're mafia because if you are town you ... No I'm not being modkilled
I am VT weather you like it or not. Ask the person who replaces me what role they got.
hey you should take a break from the thread.
take a deep breath, drink some water, go play some video games or whatever. Maybe play with a pet if you have one. Eat some ice cream. Do whatever you have to, then come back when you think you can help me find scum.
Really, I'm serious, I would rather have 5 of you in this game than almost anyone else in the playerlist.
I don't know about bugs but the other two yeh i think so
bugs prompted shockeyy after he had been gone for hours, shockeyy shortly responded. sounds like someone knew he was here from a QT
this is such a huge stretch that it's ridiculous
if we were scum together and I knew he were there why would I make it so obvious. I'm not that retarded as scum, I would just PM him or tell him in the QT to post because I wouldn't want to out myself because one of my stupid scummy teammates isn't bothering to post
i think you're exactly that retarded
whatever you say trollbro
you should perhaps not try to apply your own level of scum play to everyone else and perhaps use Occam's razor so you don't end up sounding so stupid
Sorry brochacho, but i have one of the highest winrates as scum on these forums. good try
ah, yes, the trap that results matter. You've been lynched 3 times out of 4 and someone even said you claimed RB in a game with no notifications.
I'll hedge my bet that you are just an idiot.
won 7 out of 8 yawn get on my level.
nice lie bro, you have 4 scum games in the DB and you got lynched 3 times.
Doesn't matter if your teammates carried you despite you claiming RB in a no notifications game.
On June 19 2015 09:23 Fidei86 wrote: PS I'm not really sure what claiming someone as 'hard' scum means, but I heard someone else use the phrase and I like it. I presume it means that they're at the scum end of my scum spectrum? That's how I'm using it anyway ^^
what if it meant they were hard when reading someone
On June 19 2015 09:31 VayneAuthority wrote: you're right fidei i'd rather they post nothing instead of reading 10 pages after the flip of people arguing who has a better scum record and who should go kill themselves
today on the 9 o'clock action report; different people like different things!
On June 19 2015 09:26 ShoCkeyy wrote: Sorry guys, was driving/eating dinner, going to catch up. I saw BF flipped town. So brings me back to this:
On June 19 2015 06:27 KelsierSC wrote:
On June 19 2015 06:23 ShoCkeyy wrote: Ok this is twice I've been ignored. Just going to park my vote here until 10mins before lynch time. Let's see what happens.
##unvote ##vote GlowingBear
like this is really fucking weird
You bitch about me switching to GB, then now bitch about me switching off, which one did you want? I switched to GB due to reasons mentioned. I would of stayed there, but BF's filter was scummy too. BF disappears before vote ended while GB kept defending himself, which made me second guess the vote and I switched to BF.
what do you think about GB now?
Also bugs what information should people gather from you and ritoky discussing who is better than who?
they can gather whatever information they want, really
most people in this game don't seem to have the ability to comprehend what they read anyway
On June 19 2015 09:40 Fidei86 wrote: WBG, I'm going to hit you with some LOGIC right now.
If you're town, some of the people who are disagreeing with you KNOW you're wrong/right (because they're mafia!) and therefore their responses to your thoughts may well make no sense. The people you DO want to work with you (ie the town) are probably not going to appreciate being called dullards, so you just lost influence with them.
Obviously if you're mafia then w/e.
In summary - if you're town, don't say shit like that. Otherwise, people might start thinking you're mafia.
I honestly don't care if some people think I am mafia. If they are town and they want to think that they are in some bizarro world they can, but they aren't doing themselves or the rest of the team any favours in doing so.
Right now I'm pretty annoyed with the game given that I basically posted constantly and gave the best effort I could possibly give to get GB lynched and yet we lost at the end because of people like Shockeyy and Onegu who did absolutely nothing all game and yet had the greatest influence over the lynch in the end.
The best part about all of this is that we have people like rsoultin who are fairly likely to be town at the end of it all complaining about the thread being hard or too long to read when they have the largest filters in the game, and yet having literally 0 scumreads over a space of 48 hours.
On June 19 2015 09:40 Fidei86 wrote: WBG, I'm going to hit you with some LOGIC right now.
If you're town, some of the people who are disagreeing with you KNOW you're wrong/right (because they're mafia!) and therefore their responses to your thoughts may well make no sense. The people you DO want to work with you (ie the town) are probably not going to appreciate being called dullards, so you just lost influence with them.
Obviously if you're mafia then w/e.
In summary - if you're town, don't say shit like that. Otherwise, people might start thinking you're mafia.
I honestly don't care if some people think I am mafia. If they are town and they want to think that they are in some bizarro world they can, but they aren't doing themselves or the rest of the team any favours in doing so.
Right now I'm pretty annoyed with the game given that I basically posted constantly and gave the best effort I could possibly give to get GB lynched and yet we lost at the end because of people like Shockeyy and Onegu who did absolutely nothing all game and yet had the greatest influence over the lynch in the end.
The best part about all of this is that we have people like rsoultin who are fairly likely to be town at the end of it all complaining about the thread being hard or too long to read when they have the largest filters in the game, and yet having literally 0 scumreads over a space of 48 hours.
while i work with the more than 0 scumreads i already gave you almighty amazing reader misrepresenting me so awesomely right now, do you mind attempting to reapproach the game from the perspective that you might actually be mistaken on gb, or is that a futile request for me to make, even as a hypothetical exercise?
I already did that and the game actually doesn't make sense from that perspective
why the fuck would multiple people hammer BF right at the end with no explanation whatsoever if there were two townies up for lynch? The case on GB was far stronger than the one on BF and pretty much the only person that disagreed with that was you. In fact, even some people who supposedly agreed with the GB case, e.g. Shockeyy and Mig voted BF instead of GB, while our troll friend ritoky over here ended up kindly wasting his vote completely.
I want to give yamato the benefit of the doubt that he legitimately just forgot to vote or whatever but that lack of vote is also really damning for him given that he also found GB scummy prior to the lynch. Whatever though, I hate replacements and given his posting style and comments this game he's probably not scum anyway.
yeah I get that impression too, like most of his posts are near impossible to fake, especially right after another game in which he rolled mafia but had no motivation at all to play scum. People don't get 500x better overnight, and for LS to be scum here he would have to have transformed into some magic mind mender quite literally overnight.
you can take that at face value though since I've only played the one game with him, but even though I may not know LS personally I feel really strongly about that read.
Tomorrow when I am not around lynch GB, when he flips scum lynch Shockeyy. If he miraculously somehow doesn't flip scum then consider players like Onegu, rsoultin, and yamato, because if we had 2 town wagons yesterday scum are likely to be the ones who were lurkish or those who didn't really have scum reads
On June 20 2015 00:29 wherebugsgo wrote: This might be my last post unfortunately
Tomorrow when I am not around lynch GB, when he flips scum lynch Shockeyy. If he miraculously somehow doesn't flip scum then consider players like Onegu, rsoultin, and yamato, because if we had 2 town wagons yesterday scum are likely to be the ones who were lurkish or those who didn't really have scum reads
Not a single mention on Mig, who raised suspicions on me but did not vote me. But Shockey? Oh, he IS Mafia. LOLOLOLOL
Bugs, pls
Actually it's a little weird you constantly point out Mig, can't tell if that's because you are trying to associate or disassociate.
But yes I forgot about him, if you flip scum he's probably scum too since he said he would vote you but didn't
On July 04 2015 09:49 Breshke wrote: Ahh i think my downplaying of the fight between rsoul and bugs was not very good for town.
no worries bresh lol
i'm not a paranoid person
i was actually very surprised to see in the mafia qt that bugs' tunnels were deliberate and meant to discredit lol >< i just thought they were super weird choices but didn't think beyond that
I feel like if you two were town you would have thought anyway though but it was still bad. Especially after ritoky asked me for my read on you two and i couldn't explain it AT ALL
I would've pressured or asked rsoultin a question and probably backed off. I didn't this game because I chose to actually just try to erode town completely day 1. (also I knew no one would call me out)
GB in particular was like the easiest target ever to sow chaos. Like you say anything to him and he just goes off, and his logic in general is very flaky so there are a lot of holes to attack. And there's no threat to his reads because they're generally all over the place, even if he's right he seems to be right by accident
I mean normally I don't blame people for getting lynched but you almost got lynched twice and then actually did get lynched the third time...even though you were actually a blue and you actually had a red check. As I said to my shadow I didn't fear anyone in this game and it's really obvious no one on my team really feared you either given how easily you were set up for lynch 3 times in a row.
Ordinarily I might agree that town did something dumb but given how little credence you had (and your own posts did not help at all) I don't blame people for wanting to lynch you.
On July 04 2015 14:55 wherebugsgo wrote: I mean normally I don't blame people for getting lynched but you almost got lynched twice and then actually did get lynched the third time...even though you were actually a blue and you actually had a red check. As I said to my shadow I didn't fear anyone in this game and it's really obvious no one on my team really feared you either given how easily you were set up for lynch 3 times in a row.
Ordinarily I might agree that town did something dumb but given how little credence you had (and your own posts did not help at all) I don't blame people for wanting to lynch you.
Well, I never said I played optimally. I didn't. But what I'm arguing is this: does being illogical makes someone Mafia?
You can have little trust in my reads. But those change of reads didn't make me Mafia.
If you gotta go to that argument you're in a bad way. It's like how if you get into a long debate and suddenly find yourself saying "well, can we really know anything? is there really such a thing as facts?" -- yeah, sure, you're I guess not technically incorrect, but if this is the only argument you can use to win the debate, clearly you're in a bad place.
This is not what I'm saying at all. The nature of what I'm arguing is very different.
I'm basically asking "what makes someone Mafia?", and you're saying that I'm asking "how can we possibly know that someone is actually Mafia?"
A lot of people have different tools to catch Mafia by saying Mafia are usually passive, inactive, bla bla bla, and I'm asking if being illogical is one of the traits. Is it?
I mean if you asked everyone what makes mafia most people won't even agree. In a real game if you genuinely ask that half the people won't bother answering you even. It's also honestly mostly only obvious how a particular player plays as scum (or town) in hindsight.
So what matters more than having good reads is the ability to convince townies to go your way, if you think your way is good, and MOST importantly, convince everyone you are town. Fake claiming, throwing around suspicions willy nilly, throwing around reads willy nilly, is a great way for everyone to think you are scum because your in-thread opinions change on such a whim and at such little precedent that it looks like you're scum just trying to get something to stick. Lots of people will see that and overlook any other traits that may make you look townier because they miss the forest for the trees.
When you realize that most people are just willing to jump on lowest common denominator (gonna use LCD here) lynches, then you need to make YOUR lynch into an LCD lynch; something everyone will agree on. That's how I get people lynched as either alignment and it works surprisingly well. It also works to get people OFF lynches if you explicitly show how someone is the LCD at a particular moment in time. e.g. if I were town this game I would've vehemently defended BF and LS just like I did this game because they are two players who are at risk for being that type of lynch.
The problem of course is that here you have to assume your read is good to lead a lynch like that. If you fuck it up you lose credence but you simultaneously need the confidence to know you won't get lynched for it. So it's a 3 part thing-Have good reads, convince people you are right, and don't be wrong.
EPT
Any thoughts on Onegu's entrance and our responses to it?![[image loading]](http://www.vgmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/come-at-me-bro.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.gifbin.com/bin/012010/1264505362_cat-fight.gif)
yay! i feel safer when others do it too, though! \o/![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/2727748211/c3d0981ae770f926eedf4eda7505b006.jpeg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/LYqYfTX.gif)
![[image loading]](http://new4.fjcdn.com/comments/Count+me+in+on+mission+hunt+to+find+dave+_35f96196624d07f8d16d2e6af4758da7.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://media.tumblr.com/5d5f1c8da282ba8ed038a97c4fccf4a6/tumblr_inline_mkvnoovRz61qz4rgp.gif)
