EPTIf anyone wants to chat with me, poke my reads/case, or w/e you've got about 3~hrs to do it.
[M][N]Holy Guardians Chapter 1 - Page 7
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
If anyone wants to chat with me, poke my reads/case, or w/e you've got about 3~hrs to do it. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
#1 - GG has basically shown that he is simply not sure that he isn't sure about anyone but me, yet is willing to claim he's 99% sure about this game. He makes this assertion here. D1 he was sure that it was either myself or Kick that were Mafia. He hardly pushed Kick instead, flipped his read rather suddenly and kept focus on me. This was shortly before Kick becomes the EoD wagon and eventually gets lynched. To GG this now has me as "confirmed" scum. This thinking is dangerous as town, and seems to clearly be scum motivated to me. As scum, this makes perfect sense as it suggests to town that they have a 50/50 chance one day with a confirmed scum lynch the next day. If scum can set this situation up and have it gain credence then it's a great way to get 2 ML's for one stubborn argument. Even if the end result is Scum!GG being lynched on the 3rd day this would be hugely productive for scum. As town it is highly questionable to make this case, as since you cannot have perfect information (and losing out Blue role means Town can't glean any extra info this game) and thus if you are wrong you are sentencing 2 town to be killed. Thus if you want to suggest a move like this as town you had better have solid evidence to backup this plan. I fail to see that evidence coming from GG. #2 - He throws out my name in every post as though chanting my name. This is subtle manipulation on his part, it's the same tactic used in commercials to get you to remember something and keep thinking about it. I'm not even sure I need to bother proving this one, it is clearly the tactic GG is using here. Instead I'll return to why GG is scumreading me, the Chez rule. I would like to point out that GG is clearly basing his assertion that I am scum off the Chez Rule, yet he does next to nothing to backup his belief in the Chez rule. It was scott who first tried to explain it, then ritoky posted links, and Onegu posted another one. GG would rather paraphrase the rule in order to get it to fit this situation and stick to it, then give any real evidence about the Chez Rule. Having now done my own reading and looking into it I can see why GG isn't giving out those links. His play is not very in line with how Chez would play out his rule. In the Champions Game Onegu linked to, you can clearly see that Chez is willing to think outside his own rule, and while he comes back to it time and again he never lets the rule fully cloud his judgment. I also have a hard time believing Chez would allow his vote to be wasted like GG let his "vote" on me go to waste D1. #3 - He throws around spots in his reads like he's offering safe passage to those he "reads town" I quoted the post he made where he stated this a couple of posts ago. Again, I think this point speaks for itself. I'm really interested if anyone has anyway to explain how this thinking could possibly be good or helpful. #4 - He throws out his Townreads on Kick and Ritoky like they were candy that everyone should enjoy, and then remember who gave them out so they will accept more later. The post where he does this is here, but here is the portion I found most interesting. Multiple people, including this now confirmed town and another strong town read of mine (ritoky) have now posted speaking very positively of my recent posting yet Tictock continues to insist that it 'doesn't make sense'. I readily assume that if this many people are capable of reacting positively to it while TT continues to insist a tentative read in regards to my push on him, wanting to push back on me, but having too many people speak positively of my posting, that it would be natural for a mafia to be inclined to feign 'confusion' rather than continue to 'tunnel back against me' or 'flop on me and read me as town'. Also, I would like to point out that in the end, my conclusion to townread Kickstarter was correct. I say this to promote the integrity of my reads so I can get other villagers to follow me when I say 'vote ticktock' and 'I will add kickstarter to my town list' so that you people stop lynching my townreads and I'm not the only one voting my scumread at EOD. This is such an easy move for scum to make since they actually know who is town. GG is quick to throw out that he was townreading Kick, yet he barely recognized that Kick had died or was our ONLY blue role. He spins his read on ritoky the same way, just saying "I knew he was town, listen to me" Saying you were right about Townreads is the worst way to prove you are town as it is the easiest way for Mafia to show that they are town as well. If anything people should be more afraid to listen to GG given this statement. #3 & 4 together pretty much prove to me that GG does not have Town interests in mind. I also find there to be ample explanation as to why Scum!GG would be acting this way and pushing me like this. Maybe it's a little WIFOM, but I don't think scum is sweating losing a member of their team right now if it has the potential of getting another ML and creates further confusion and misdirection at the same time. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On June 07 2015 02:21 Shendelzare wrote: On my phone but since you asked Tic Town - VE (posting), milo (EoD) Lean town - Damdred Not sure - Scott, Fidei Scum lean - Tic, Chocolate (posting but could move after further review), NHM (need to see more) Scum - Templar Thanks. Besides myself being a scum lean I'm pretty much on the same page as you ^.^ I also feel Nydus is lurking far too much. Maybe I should spend the rest of my time today diggin through his filter. I need to reread his Reads post as well and see if there is decent thinking in that or not. Where are you on Onegu? I know he is a tough one to read but I see him missing in your post there... | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On June 07 2015 03:01 Damdred wrote: Anyway i'm mostly caught up. Firstly I don't think the oneg/Chezinu rule applies to me here. Firstly I wasn't the first person to put scum on oneg or to vote oneg I believe. (the chez rule is a fine rule XD) Secondly I have/had a decent reason to vote on oneg at that moment in time. He had a scum read on me, then pushed someone else next phase without a mention of me. VE is obvious town here, his case on GG isn't horrible its decent to sheep. I'm still not sure that it makes GG mafia personally I think that Nyus is more mafia than GG at this point. But VE seems so sure i'm just willing to trust him here. Good luck Dam, I've been trying to argue that point in regards to GG and myself... These easy strats are too strong! Maybe if Chez were here himself we wouldn't have a leg to stand on, but since he is not I don't believe we can follow his rule. I'm also a little hurt you overlooked my own case. Do you not care about what I think if it's not in regards to you? I get it, you still think I could be scum here. Just don't leave those blinders on too long. Tunnels are bad, Don't stay in Tunnels, mmm'k? @ Onegu Trolls live under bridges, bridges are really just tunnels over the water, thus trolls live near tunnels and tunnels are bad. + Show Spoiler + Please include the occasional post with some logic/reasoning. I think I get your style, but, assuming your town, don't make yourself an easy mislynch. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
I'm really unhappy that this was his last post over 24hrs ago, and was one of like 3 posts since EoD... On June 06 2015 12:19 Chocolate wrote: Sorry for my absence, got a longish car ride tomorrow so I'll hopefully be able to be pretty active However, we have 2 solid cases on GG, I still think we should be lynching him today. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
Given how this game has been going I think there is high chance of at least one, but possibly more, scum lurking. I think looking into the lurkers, will be a good thing to start doing in the next few days. Ugh sorry, I'm taking close to 5 min to make these super short posts kus my brain is fried & I'm losing my train of thought so easily. I should just get some sleep. I'll be more worthwhile in the morning,even if for only an hour or so. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On June 07 2015 13:50 Shendelzare wrote: I am voting Templar. Vote will stay on him. I don't think it hurts to discuss others though. And I missed day one so may as well comment on what I missed. No it's def good. I think we have too many lurkers atm and need to look into them more. I'll read whatever gets posted in more detail when i wake up. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On June 07 2015 16:39 GGTeMpLaR wrote: no thanks I came to play mafia not coach half the game through reading comprehension 500 times. that was mostly for bragging rights post-game anyways I've had too many bad accusations put against me for pushing on mafia On June 07 2015 18:31 GGTeMpLaR wrote: idc i solved the game for myself im not gonna waste time teaching english lessons at this point i'm too frustrated at the number of people misreading me and making shit up And then with this thrown in... On June 07 2015 16:11 GGTeMpLaR wrote: I've probably got 1 mafia in my townreads because it's too soon in the game You are so sure of yourself, so 100% that you solved the game, because of what? That you "know" I'm scum because I broke the proxy-"Chez Rule"? Like I don't get why you assume this is solid thinking... Ok if Chez WAS playing this game, then the Chez Rule would apply, sure I can see that given his style of play that I've looked into. If you want to go down with this logic... then I dont get why Onegu is not our "proxy-CHez" this game. I'm not sure the "Onegu Rule" is as solid, but it at least applies to this game since Onegu is here. Onegu is easily the closes person in our game to a "Chez" yet you focused my reaction to ritoky, and call out "You broke Chez's rule". I'd say if you want to apply any "chez rule" this game you should use Onegu as your proxy. I'm not mentioning Chez the rest of this game. I dont think any of his rules or logic applies when he is not playing. Trying to use his "rule" as solid fact in this game, while not even trying to mimik the finer points of his play is absurd. From my point of view you Wasted your vote 2 days in a row following this nonse, while not listening to anyone telling you that it's not enough. I also don't get how you can think I'm scum, yet ignore anything I do to try and talk to you... That is just bad play, it probably means your scum or you are a stubborn mule of a town (yes I'm borrowing this line from ritoky a bit). On June 07 2015 16:44 GGTeMpLaR wrote: shame you guys lynched him when I called him town now you're lynching me Your not the only one who did, and as I and Shen have pointed out, Scum can use "I pointed out Town!" All game long... This proves nothing. You were also being considered Scum D1 for similar reasons, but you never use your "Reading comprehension" to catch onto that fact and adapt to the game. In fact as far as I can tell, you never really cared to play this game. This would explain how you never caught on to the fact you didn't actually vote D1, even when it was clearly stated by Mods throughout the day, as well as Scott pointing it out in. Then you ignore the fact that Kick got lynched, or was our only blue role, and manage to only post this after you learn that your "dear townread" Kick had died N1. On June 05 2015 13:02 GGTeMpLaR wrote: Also, losing jailer is pretty bad. You then post this the same night. On June 05 2015 19:17 GGTeMpLaR wrote: Vigi plz shoot Tictock. Clearly you are neither playing this game, nor using reading comprehension yourself On June 07 2015 16:39 GGTeMpLaR wrote: no thanks I came to play mafia not coach half the game through reading comprehension 500 times. Right.... | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On June 07 2015 14:37 Shendelzare wrote: Okay, now that is making a little more sense why you don't like Damdred, fine. But what do you think of him after the lynch? He posted some large case or something. Or do you just look at people how they view you and ignore everything else? That was me actually. I posted a decent sized post where I looked at Damdred N1 becasue of his involvement in starting a lynch that got people to swap off GG and Choco and got Kick lynched. Since Damdred responded to my case in a reasonable fashion and countered my arguments against him with good points and reasoning I found myself rethinking my stance on him. In retrospect my case on Damdred wasn't super solid, I think I had my points but they were far more circumstantial than actual scum tells. I still have my suspicions of Dam. His sheeping VE today seems a little out of place and Onegu might have a point, but I'm not going to read too much into those things right now. Damdred has generally been reasonable this game, and even though his wagon D1 got our Jailer lynched I'm not convinced hes scum for it. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
Sorry I bailed out on you last night, just really was not awake enough to make sensible posts longer than a few lines. I like the interaction I see happening between Shen and Onegu. Onegu also really stepped up the posting. I'm moving Onegu into full town territory, and while I still find Shen somewhat null I'm def leaning town. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On June 07 2015 20:16 NydusHerMain wrote: Looking at this post he finally gives his first set of reasons for his list of reads but he never actually mentions scott his once top scum and now obviously a town read. Now I want to note one thing, no templar read here and this is very important imo. I urge you guys to read this post very carefully. He calls scott town for his case against TEMPLAR (and scott was calling templar mafia and even was voting on him at this point based on the fucking chezblahblah rule) and never once mentioned templar until this point. Not only that, he calls templar likely town for what reason? That he's townier in his filter and that people are trying to bury his discussion under stuff. Scott's literal accusation versus templar is chezblahblah rule. What other reason could there be to bury his discussion under "stuff?" How could chocolate possibly be townreading Scott at this point? This is a very nice catch. Scum 100% tend to ignore each other in their reads. Last game I caught wind of scum from their D1 reasoning on their vote. The scumlette in question was reading PlayerA as scum and saw an association with PlayerB, she then went on to push PlayerB as scum for the rest of the day. As it turned out PlayerA was her scummate and PlayerB was just a newbie whom people had trouble reading. Scott can back this up if people don't care to read NSM X themselves. When I was writing my case on Dam N1 I thought I had picked up on a similar blind spot in his reads on Choco. It was mostly based on how Dam was tending to townread people D1, while Choco was pushing for Scum reads. I expected the two of them to clash a little because of it, but that never happened. I only bring that up now kus I was reminded of it by Nydus' post here. I thought it was a really weak point and am only leaving it out there now in case we later discover Choco is in fact scum. Dam is still leaning town for me right now. On June 07 2015 20:28 NydusHerMain wrote: Oh and if chocolate flips scum I think the votes make it very clear who his scum team can and can't be. Day 1 Vote Count Tictock(1): sicklucker <- shendalakajfkldsjfldjsal Chocolate(4): VisceraEyes, Scott, Kickstart, Tictock GGTemplar(1): NydusHerMain Kickstart(4): Damdred, Chocolate, ritoky, Fidei86 Damdred(1) Onegu Not Voting (2): GGTemplar, milo109 Yes, I'm calling myself town even though it doesn't fall into the logic because I am  . I'm thinking that onegu is likely to be mafia, sorry scott, I just can't trust your meta reads over my own personal read that he's scummy. I think he's low hanging fruit and needs to be lynched. I'm personally reading templar but if chocolate flips, I think that templar is one of the most likely mafia team mates because of the way chocolate soft defended templar in chocolate's posts with almost zero mention of templar before then. I don't think milo just unvotes as mafia but I can't help but think that if milo voted on chocolate, chocolate would've been lynched instead of our blue. Probably town but if he was mafia partners with chocolate, it would make a little bit of sense. Dunno if he would risk it though. Blah, gonna call him town, it's too risky to do it as mafia. Those are the people that mostly come to mind in my thoughts. No so sold on your logic here. You basically suggest everyone not on Choco D1 is potential mafia, IF choco flips red. Even if Choco flips red I think we can discard SL's vote on me, it was like his first post of the game where he voted me, it has nothing to do with Choco later becoming a possible lynch. Similar logic applies to Onegu's vote, though maybe not as much. You are looking a little better after these posts though. I'd like to see more like you from this. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On June 07 2015 21:24 NydusHerMain wrote: Can you elaborate why you think onegu is townier? What did you like about his interactions? I admit, most of my reasons for reading Onegu as town are still based on tone. Still I challenged him at one point to step up his posting a little as did others. I saw him doing that in those interactions with Shen, thus that makes me more assured that he is town this game. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On June 07 2015 21:36 Onegu wrote: I just realized GG doesnt violate the onegu rule... On June 07 2015 21:38 Onegu wrote: Would actually like a Damdred lynch today. NO I AM THE BEST PLAYER HERE I DEMAND A DAMDRED LYNCH TODAY!!! Don't throw your vote away again today please... If you want to push Dam, you can put together something tomorrow... I'm assuming you don't have anything other than him breaking your rule today. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
I'm tempted to make a joke about a Tictock rule, but based on my last game the only one I have evidence of is that "A tunneled Tictock is often wrong, but always Town" As scott has pointed out a few times, I'm trying to learn from that and not get tunneled this game... Crap, I just made a rule and used it to show that I'm not 100% town this game. Fail. ^.^ Btw, I'm only around a little longer before i have to head to work. Wont be around EoD, but I'll be back a few hours after. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On June 07 2015 21:47 Onegu wrote: its the reasons for breaking the rule. are you guys not reading. Like actually read my day 2 I stopped trolling long ago. I know you did, and maybe your rule has some value... But I don't see that being a good argument to lynch Dam over GG. Thus you voting Dam simply for breaking your rule today w/o being able to convince anyone else is throwing your vote away. That was my point. If you think you have a convincing argument to accompany him breaking your rule, then lets hear that. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
I thought it was ok, according to the Onegu rule, to want to Policy Lynch you or lynch you in later days? You know what, no I'm done with these rules for now. Give me something a little more solid and we'll talk tomorrow... | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On June 07 2015 21:55 Damdred wrote: So I really don't care for GG attitude here. However nydus postings especially who could be scum doesn't make much sense to me... Besides everyone in the whole game? If we lynch me today I'm okish with it I've been real busy lately meh. I'm not sure I like that post either. Basically Nydus is saying everyone who isn't voting Choco D1 is possible scum, if Choco flips scum. ...Seems like a pointless statement actually. Anyway SL slots sudden change from town reading me now to partially scum reading me is interesting. I think tick is townish currently to. Kinda not sure what to do today. Come on dude, that's a bit rude. Ok maybe your just poping in quick kus your busy... but her name in in the OP now, it's Shendelzare. (Shen is what I haven been using) I know Nydus did the same thing, but I think he's just kinda going for abrasive atm. This is prob my last post till after EoD. I'd really like to lynch GG today, but at least part of that is since he is out to get me. So if not GG, we should at least lynch Choco. Though I'd rather at least hear from Choco again before we lynch him... I'm actually not a fan of lynching people who appear to have fallen off the earth. I've seen both town and scum do it so it's NAI in my mind. It's prob more of a sign of RL getting in the way than any indication of his alignment. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On June 07 2015 22:22 Damdred wrote: How about we lynch sls slot or nydus, literally nydus still has no reads (well has some just that chocolate wagon all town rest of game scum). Kinda meh even about lynching the Sl slot though Nydus might not be bad, actually I'm thinking might be a very good lynch D3. Sorry I have to head out or I'd discuss more. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
Didn't GG give Nydus a fairly weak Town read D1? never really seemed to readdress him either... | ||
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