Assassination Mafia!

On May 09 2015 03:00 Blazinghand wrote:
pregame excuses, expect like, 1 post from me tops on mother's day, i'm gonna be hanging out with my mom

On May 10 2015 09:04 rsoultin wrote:
1!

hay naku o.0

necesito usar los numeros como prp, ja?

es mejor lol

hi ^^ yay for game finally starting lol so much hype! \o/

towniest town who ever towned por supuesto, who is the next towniest?

On May 10 2015 09:30 LightningStrike wrote:
So with a 10 post limit I might resort to like a Geript Student V style for this phase.

On May 10 2015 09:36 LightningStrike wrote:

I not mafia it just it going to be hard for me to post with only 10 posts allowed this phase.

On May 10 2015 09:57 Onegu wrote:
Man I really hope I get the traitor just realized I can get that. Then I can be scum!!!

On May 10 2015 10:26 Trfel wrote:

Hello.
My name is Trfel.

I was going to make some huge entrance post for this game, which I figured that approximately zero people would read. But then I didn't have enough time, so I didn't.

I had this great toneread on Half the Sky, and then I realized that rsoultin already commented on the same thing. I agree that Half the Sky's "happiness" does feel very forced.

I'm also somewhat suspicious of LightningStrike. Not for wasting posts, but for justifying a lower posting (and higher content) style by saying he will play like someone else did in a game isn't necessary at all. If LightningStrike wanted to use a low post count style because of the post limit, I would expect him to just go ahead and do that (and quite possibly announce what he would be doing). But I really don't understand why he would justify this by comparing it to someone else in a different game.

I would be inclined to think that KelsierSC is town, but this post gives me pause.Rsoultin already expressed that she is suspicious of Half the Sky, so I'm really not sure why KelsierSC is asking this. KelsierSC has no reason to say this, so it feels like buddying to me.

On May 10 2015 10:43 Trfel wrote:
Which shows that you did not read the post very carefully at all. You seem willing to be present in the thread and to talk with people, but you aren't reading carefully. Suspicious.
+ Show Spoiler [Explanation] +

On May 10 2015 11:11 Bill Murray wrote:
Hey guys. This is going to be tremendous fun. With a group of players this good, I know that I will be improving my play. I don't care to give some general questions for everyone as well.

1) How do you rate yourself in terms of your play?

2) How do you rate others in terms of their play?

3) What would you change about your play?

On May 10 2015 11:20 Damdred wrote:


This is almost as bad a read as me saying GB is town just saying.

However at this point I have a couple of preliminary town reads I believe just by tone and posting style and somewhat on content.

Rsoultin seems to be genuinely using the posts to press good ideas while pressing issues that are important in the thread.

HTS and Trfel both seem to have a good tone about them and it seems it is easy to follow what they mean while it somewhat mirrors what RS says I think it is a good sign of things to come and both are good leans.

KSC... is a bit harder for me to get a handle on at this point, I have a slight town lean on him. His tone and general demeanor remind me of Void Mafia at this point. However his style is also reminiscent of mini mafia to an extent, but the content is different. I'm pretty ok with him at this point.

LS is interesting, he always wastes posts but we'll see what his other posts do.

On May 10 2015 11:27 Damdred wrote:


The most impressive part is that you ignored the trutly contradicting things I put into the post but key'd in on something that I actually believe.

(3)

On May 10 2015 11:29 Trfel wrote:
What do you currently think about rsoultin, then?

---

Oh hush, you...

Anyway, I didn't repost the player list... I originally added the filters, the official player list is a copy-paste of the player list that I posted

---

I'm obviously biased about myself... but Half the Sky only made one post, with nothing of actual value.Do tell me how you managed to arrive at your conclusion from this post?

On May 10 2015 11:35 Damdred wrote:
I'm glad that Trfel and KSC seem to be thinking critically now.

Your original question kel was a little lacking but the follow up was much better I think.

Firstly I don't necessarily have to agree with someones read on them to like the direction that they are going in the way that they are posting or the ideas they are pushing.

I think that HTS tone is decent in the post and I just kind of tacked it on to see who would call me out on it while they were reading. Plus it got some more conversation going

(5)

On May 10 2015 20:17 marvellosity wrote:
hey Kels. Why does anything you say about TalkingDead make him mafia, deary?

This postcount thing making people just list reads feels really weird :p I have Damdred as towny and GB as scumweird for calling him mafia and not a lot else just yet.

On May 10 2015 23:30 Xatalos wrote:


Not really except the really strict post restriction.

I can't read the LS post TLDR / conclusions, if any?

KSC: I can sort of agree with the fact that making weird plays (Damdred) more often comes from town. It's just that this assumes that it *was* in fact a prepared play and not to cover up questionable reads. In any case, how exactly did LS's post make you change your read? I at least couldn't really extract anything from it.

On May 11 2015 01:34 Half the Sky wrote:
2/10

I'm back. Catching up. Though this jumped at me and I see others are saying it.



It's generally a scum tendency to not want to draw attention to themselves. Why are you afraid to lean one way or another on someone?

Generally when you meta read someone or compare points on meta you're a bit more confident. In Newbie LX I was scum, but here if my entrance is not great, I only "could" be scum?

On January 05 2015 09:28 LightningStrike wrote:

Are you implying that HTS is scum for her post? I don't see it scream scum. Also I don't got a How To Find Scum Guide ready just yet.

On January 06 2015 11:46 LightningStrike wrote:
Guys I just got back and I will fully explain my thought process on the stuff.
#1 @Exo I had some reads that I said I needed more posts to figure out their alignment so I should of just said Null instead of the comments I said and I know I don't have any real scum reads just yet and I still trying to figure out who is scum and who is not atm


#2 @JarJarbinks I'm a guy not a girl gosh you and Robik keep calling me a girl -.- But thanks for the defense but that HTS post that everyone over analyzed not mine.


#3 @HTS After reading some posts I decided to just read as Null but leaning town after people told me his post was a drive by post and left a lot to be desired but now I starting to town read him


#4 @Everyone here I now going to full explanation of my reads

1. rsoultin: Town: she been trying hunt for scum like her normal self in Student Mafia IV and Carol of the Bells Mafia where she was Vanilla Town in both games.
2. Half the Sky: Town: She made some silly posts at the start yes but everyone over analyzed them but not unusual from her type of entrance since she did similar entrances in Student Mafia IV and Carol of the Bells Mafia and she been asking some good questions towards The Shining and been following through her questioning and also defended her posts in a manor I feel townie from her.
3. ExO_ Town: He actively been scum hunting throughout today and trying to pressure people and normally this type of behavior comes from town players and honestly I not really confident in my scum reads unless it's based on meta on players I played with in other games.


4.Tubesock: Null leaning town: His posts seem to lack any content but his posting style seem to be the same as he did on Carol where I mislynch him like a dumbass in that game but I looking foward to solidify my town read on him.


5. -Celestial-: Town: He been trying to scum himself but he seem to lack confidence on his end on his reads which is something I notice on newer players on forum mafia coming from SC2 Mafia but he doing some decent questioning too.


6.JarJarBinks: Null: His posts seem to lack content but he said he is sick and I hope he feels much better soon but he also needs to step it up if he's town and help us find scum.


7.Grumdrop: Null: He not posted since his entrance post and hope he posts more but for now I need to place him somewhere so Null is the best place for him atm due to the lack of posts from him.

8.Tfrel: Null leaning town: He seem to be inactive but it due to irl so I hoping he post more tomorrow but he had some good questions on his few posts since the game started but we shall see.

9. Silverate: Null: I need more posts to get a clear read on her since she posted so little and I hope she post more tonight and tomorrow!

#5 @Tubesock I will give context to that post you said was worthless. HTS earlier in the thread asked me for my reads on the newer players at the time so that why I posted those reads.

On May 11 2015 02:00 Half the Sky wrote:
3/10

Kelsier -

Through the course of the game yes - particularly when I was pushing him D2 and after I died, he was calling me scum hardcore (the only one to do so) in that game. You'd have to read either in the obs qt or the post-game but he was particularly noted for being the only one to scumread me all game, that's how he stuck out that game.

Also Kels, I find it interesting you pulled that up because in this game he's saying



He's saying that because I was scum in Newbie LX, that my opening this game could be alignment indicative.

Though that still raises an interesting point.

Why does he say "alignment indicative" instead of straight up calling me scummy or leaning scum on me?

On May 11 2015 03:25 LightningStrike wrote:

Town she had some good large posts on analyzing stuff about GlowingBear and is thinking critically.

On May 11 2015 04:03 TalkingDead wrote:
yamato77
Yamato like many veterans generally gives very few fucks when he can't lynch people. Between tone (slight hopeful, slight asshole) and his color coding, these are far more likely to come from town!yamato. The interesting thing to note is that he doesn't seem to care whatsoever what he says; instead, he pops in, makes a comment and leaves. I for one expect more from him, but there doesn't look like he has any ulterior motive in posting. Rather he just says what he wants to say. That's why I have him as so strongly town.

KelsierSC
I think he's town mostly based on how obviously hypocritical he is. He spends the first half of his posts talking about how awful other people's post are and how they're wasting posts while he doesn't really bother adding anything himself. That's behavior that I tend to associate with town more than mafia. There's also the aspect that there's no real directional push; rather, it's pecking at a variety of other players. The only reason why I would put him on the town side of null instead of fully town is because his reads are pretty terrible. I find how he backs off of GB rather odd; I can't really understand:

Because when you look at GB's filter, I'm not seeing any alterations in his reads. First post is essentially a joke; GB has 1 moderate length reads post and a post expanding upon his MIA Damdred read. Rather the GB read feels very much like a preemptive defense while trying to push elsewhere. So if either GB or Kelsier flips mafia, then I'd take a heavy look at the other.

VisceraEyes
I find it rather out of place that VE is somewhat bothering to play if VE is town. I agree with Kelsier that on tone, VE looks a bit towny, but quite often VE has complained about not being able to lynch people. By this I mean that in games like PYP or here, where there's a 'pre-game' phase where you have alignment and can talk but are unable to lynch people quite often he as complained about not bothering to play because there's very little point in playing due to the lack of a perceived threat. He can't realistically threaten to lynch or shoot or nuke or whatever anyone and therefore feels less capable of applying pressure. I do find it odd that he didn't harp on BillMurray's last post at all because usually town!VE hates and tends to scumread the "leading on" type of post. His Batsnacks read and his GB/Batsnacks/Onegu observation are things that I'd normally expect from town!VE though. Since in at least a few of those games VE was mafia and because town!VE reads, I'm going to leave him at null to town.

marvellosity
I have him as town for tone alone. It's really not worth considering him until day 2 at the very earliest and if he's alive on day 3 then just lynch him. But I will be sheeping him on day 1.

HalftheSky
HTS is town. Period. She's made an exceptional number of interesting points (GB reaction to yamato, Damdred's word choice, initial poke at LightningStrike).

BillMurray

This post strikes me as particularly odd. Not only had he donated posts to Damdred, something which historically has happened more from mafia than town, he doesn't use any of his posts productively. He promises more useful things in the bland future. Yet, the most interesting thing to me is his caring about going over the limit. That's a behavior that I expect far more to come from mafia as they know they're part of a team which they would hurt by getting modkilled due to rules. Town tends to just damn the torpedoes and full speed ahead. This is on top of BillMurray not being an awful player as town. By far the best lynch on day 1.

Onegu
There's a variety of odd things with him. I think he's the third best lynch on day 1. He's drinking but doesn't post. There's this post:

Which is a really odd thought process to me. How could town possibly get the traitor role? Usually town that can become mafia has a different role name. This is also a normal game and therefore no alignment changes should ever happen.

Trfel
Trfel's posts aren't quite in-depth enough for me to really think he's town, but I like the points he's making. Null-town for now and flesh it out more on day 1.

LightningStike
Others have covered this for the most part. LS is the second best lynch for D1.

Damdred

GlowingBear
In looking through things there are a few things I find interesting.

I found this post quite odd. Initially so because he reaffirms his Damdred scumread but then bothers to comment on something that's supposed to be viewed as scummy but is just null. The townread on KelsierSC I find interesting because Kelsier also ended up with an odd townread on GlowingBear. But also because GlowingBear doesn't mention Trfel at all while Trfel had an interesting point on how LightningStrike was posting. But in looking further at it, he doesn't seem to place heavy weight on LS being mafia based on talking about how he's going to make consolidated posts. He gives Kelsier a townread for mostly calling out LS for "legit reasons" which GlowingBear doesn't want to follow up on. It's just exceptionally odd. GlowingBear's reads in general are just exceptionally odd on top of that. Initially, I felt like GlowingBear was trying to bus Damdred and Damdred was (at least initially) trying to back him out of that read in a semi-natural way and get GlowingBear to chill out. But in looking more specifically at the connections, the KelsierSC-GlowingBear connection is a bit more odd. I think there are better lynches on day 1 because often enough the person with really weird fucked up reads is just a bad towny which wouldn't be out of place for GlowingBear. But I also wouldn't balk at his lynch since something's definitely wrong here.

5)Damdred
This post is too long already and I need to get some food. I'll comment on him later. tl;dr I think GlowingBear vs Damdred is more likely to be town-town right now.

Nothing of note to say about
Xatalos
batsnacks
ObiWanShinobi
Oatsmaster
justanothertownie

MIAs
Palmer
Stutters
Vivax
Blazinghand
sandroba
RebirthOfLeGend

On May 11 2015 10:06 Trfel wrote:
Hello.

I'll get to this game in a few hours at the latest. I am sorry for my absence today, I'll be better during the week than on weekends.

The purpose of this post is to ensure that I comply with the "one post every 24 hours" rule. Meanwhile, enjoy some music.

On May 11 2015 10:16 TalkingDead wrote:

Noted that you and several other people want answers that are wholly irrelevant. Do you have any other pipe dreams you want to talk about?

On May 11 2015 11:36 Damdred wrote:
So this is hopefully going to be my least informative and worst post of the game.

I now have a town read on td and sandroba.

this will likely cause me some grief but its how I feel at the moment in time.

(1)

On May 11 2015 11:51 TalkingDead wrote:
Let's take a look at the series of interactions:



Damdred chides GlowingBear while clarifying reads.


Damdred makes what looks like a snide compliment implying GB isn't thinking whatsoever and just ignores GlowingBear.

GlowingBear makes his large post with the odd Damdred followup.

Damdred counter pushes GlowingBear almost reactively in a "explore every detail" aspect.

GlowingBear counter-counterpushes back.


Then Damdred tries to disengage with the classic, "He's just mudslinging for total discredit value instead of arguing points."

The point of this is that neither really goes ham on the other. There's no large shitstorm, mudslinging or dickwaggling contest. For the most part, both of them tend to believe that they're right and that ignore relevant points the other has while claiming the 'high ground' for themselves. Then for the most part they both disengage from direct contact to worth with others. To me, this is a situation where they share alignments because as town-town they both know they can be wrong here and instead want to either engage other people to confirm or deny biased views. As mafia-mafia, there's no real advantage to hard double bus this early and get heavily place the focus on both of you especially when Damdred is a player who (while good at scum) works best when he's out of the direct spotlight. I excluded mafia-town because normally in mafia-town interaction, one of the two will hold onto and beat a dead horse (in regards to arguing with the other person).

The specific reason why I end up at town-town specifically on the two is because that's where I end up on both of them individually. Damdred looks really towny to me based on how he's interacting, tone, interest level and thought process. GlowingBear is likely the most controversial person in the thread; the most controversial person is almost always town.

On the whole, I'm surprised that you're less interested in talking about BillMurray, Blazinghand, LightningStrike or numerous others. Potentially even Trfel.

On May 11 2015 11:52 Damdred wrote:


You are always so pushy and rude at times kel when you are like this lol.

sandroba this game is exceptionally wrong about his two primary reads in me and td I feel. However hrs pushing his own ideas and his own agenda in the thread. If you look at any past game he rolls scum in you don't really see this kind of activity and ability to push like this, at this point in the game generally. O think he's really wrong but he's town.

I just like td, he might be obstinate about answering at times but he is pitting himself out there. I think he's town I don't want to say much more than that. Well one last thing he's really putting himself forward and not trying to blend in, I don't see a scum who has received some heat still putting this forward I think hr would be more agreeable and trying to explain rather than not and not blending.

(2)

On May 11 2015 12:19 Damdred wrote:
Actually yea that was a really good explanation for his read and why he left out mafia-town from his way of thinking. I think it is a bit of a narrative to an extent but I thought it showed his thought process and how he came about it. I still think hes town.

(3)

On May 11 2015 12:25 Damdred wrote:
I'm not really understanding what your problem is, hes still not blending. He answered the question posed in perhaps an overexplained way, but it was really good I felt.

I don't think you know what blending is, hes still not doing it. If he wanted to blend in he would auto answer things or make comments that wouldn't get him called out and sink back into the muddy water that is the rest of the player list.

(4)

On May 11 2015 12:28 Damdred wrote:


So basically you are complaining about my read because i'm right that hes not blending in?

(5)

On May 11 2015 12:34 TalkingDead wrote:

So me making the largest analysis post of the game reasonably early on is "blending in"? That's a bit odd for someone who's hand is in every cookie jar.

On May 11 2015 12:33 Damdred wrote:


Now you are just being kinda not fun right now.

He answered questions in a way that caused him not to blend in. Mafia like to blend in and will usually bend to peoples wills to fit in before they can't blend in anymore. They don't like being called out for things especially this early in the game.

(that is just a general heusitc.)

Of course i'll call someone town for a good post if i'm already town reading them. And you are kind of arguing a pointless thing? If you disagree with my reasoning then disagree with it but this isn't the way to prove i'm wrong or scum.

(5)

On May 11 2015 12:44 Damdred wrote:


Nothing bad about it honestly. you are just trying to be nit picky and overly in your face for no reason. I think hes town.

Mafia like to blend he has done nothing but stand out when he posts, he had a choice to blend he chose not to.

I liked his post oh well, the conversation is pointless and you are just being meh at this point.

(7)

On May 11 2015 04:43 justanothertownie wrote:

I don't understand the rayn read and the mafia read for this post I understand even less.

On May 11 2015 00:16 justanothertownie wrote:

I other words there isn't really anything. Yep.

On May 10 2015 22:01 justanothertownie wrote:

Curious how batsnacks ended up red in this list.

wat

Why would you be salty?

On May 11 2015 18:46 Trfel wrote:

Table of Contents
1. Preface
2. Bill Murray
3. GlowingBear
4. KelsierSC
5. Townreads
6. Questions

Preface

Some of this post (including this preface) was written before the anti-nuke. I'm tired and too lazy to edit it.

If I'm going to be playing this game knowing that I get nuked at the end of the cycle, at least I'm going to play it my way. So you will be dealing with extremely long posts, random Styx songs, and complete lack of self confidence. I'm not going to adjust my play to please people who nuke me for inactivity on Mothers' Day. If you don't like it, be glad I won't be here for very long.



On the bright side, at least I'm not going to be lynched today. Listen to the above song, it's really quite good. And fitting for the occasion. This song is a good example of why I like Styx: their songs have good melodies and good chord progressions, but they all have fairly good lyrics and most of them actually say something rather profound, or evoke a deep emotion. This song in particular makes me think of my friends and family separated by time and space, and pains me because in many cases, there is no more time.

Bill Murray

I do not have the ability to call down nukes. I have learned that Bill Murray's nuke is real or he has a role specifically allowing him to fake nuke people (which I do not believe is specified by the OP, can anyone else confirm this?).

So, I'm obviously biased against Bill Murray. We didn't get along all that well in Student Mafia VIII, despite both being town. He really doesn't like my style of using longer posts. And I'm obviously very annoyed at being nuked for wanting to spend time with my family on Mothers' Day, while saying that I would catch up with the game this evening (and Bill Murray supposedly read my filter).

Everything about Bill Murray's play is screaming mafia. But can town really be completely lazy, and decide to do this? I can't rule it out, especially knowing that Bill Murray really doesn't like me. So I think that it is best if I refrain from posting reads on Bill Murray, because anything that I say is clouded in personal bias and frustration.

GlowingBear

So, GlowingBear doesn't want mafia to shoot other mafia, thus wanting mafia to stay alive?

More seriously though... he provided an early townread on batsnacks, and then reverses that townread for poor reasons (remembering that batsnacks' first post, and an unflipped association read).

However, I do like his early pressure on Damdred. And his posts seem to have a carefree attitude, he really doesn't seem like he cares what people think about him. I'm not too certain about this, but I'm slightly leaning town on GlowingBear at this time.

KelsierSC

I'm suspicious of KelsierSC. He opened the game very aggressively, pushing suspicion at many players (LightningStrike, rsoultin, and Damdred). His read development on these three players is very interesting.

LightningStrike
+ Show Spoiler +
rsoultin
+ Show Spoiler +
Damdred
+ Show Spoiler +

KelsierSC seems to be playing to keep his options open. He is throwing a lot of suspicion around, especially early in the game, and his reads change in a way that I have difficulty explaining from a town mindset.

However, KelsierSC has been extremely active and promoting discussion. He completely ignored the Night 0 post limit. This makes me much more hesitant to scumread him, because I don't think that scum would be posting so much. But I do not think that activity alone is a good enough reason to townread him here.

Town Reads

Damdred + Show Spoiler +
Half the Sky + Show Spoiler +
sandroba + Show Spoiler +
rsoultin + Show Spoiler +

Questions

Damdred and VisceraEyes:
+ Show Spoiler +
Please explain what you mean in these quotes, about batsnacks being "intentionally mysterious"? What does this make you think about his alignment?

KelsierSC:
Can you please respond to the above points that I made? (just the main points will suffice)

On May 11 2015 04:03 TalkingDead wrote:

marvellosity
I have him as town for tone alone. It's really not worth considering him until day 2 at the very earliest and if he's alive on day 3 then just lynch him. But I will be sheeping him on day 1.

On May 11 2015 07:20 sandroba wrote:
@damdred any comments on what I've said about TD? I feel that I made a pretty strong point. And regarding about me saying what other people stated I'm reading the thread for the first time and I've shared my thoughts. I don't think anyone else has adressed the issues I've adressed in quite the same way and if somehow I've missed it and they share my feelings I'm glad that they do. I'm kinda on the fence about you because you've said so much, but I can't help but feel like a lot that you've said doesn't make much sense/ doesn't add up/ looks like fake content. It might as well be that you are town producing huge amounts of BS to try to look town, which I don't think is a particularly good strategy, however the way you've adressed the suspicions saying acting scummy was all a part of a plan I'm having a hard time buying into.
The person I feel most strongly about is TD and I would like you to share your thoughts on him/ what I've said about him.

On May 11 2015 05:59 sandroba wrote:
@LS this post was by talkinghead if you cared to read, but maybe my formating is not the best. Anyone who read it will know that I'm very suspicious of both TD and damdred. I didn't say anything about GB in my posts but if you must know I think GB is town.

On May 11 2015 10:14 sandroba wrote:
GB is my top town read so far, pretty much every single post he's made I agree with. I believe any questioning pointed towards him at this point is just a waste of space and we should be talking about TD and damdred instead.

On May 10 2015 20:17 marvellosity wrote:
hey Kels. Why does anything you say about TalkingDead make him mafia, deary?

This postcount thing making people just list reads feels really weird :p I have Damdred as towny and GB as scumweird for calling him mafia and not a lot else just yet.

On May 11 2015 20:43 marvellosity wrote:
ok, so just read through the loltastic nuke + anti-nuke. I don't really get why people let this sort of thing slide. Also if BH was going to anti-nuke the nuke, I don't know why he did it so soon, it seems really information-restrictive.

Essentially it means we should by lynching BM.

BM being BM or not being BM, the bolded reasoning is just nonsense. Game's barely started. Why launch the nuke so soon? There's no reason for it. Time and time again in Ver games mafia are forgiven for really terrible in-thread plays on the basis it's too terrible to be scum. Except it's just ballsy yolo with the expectation of not being punished.

Giving posts unannounced to Damdred was also very weird.

tldr; terrible shot based on terrible reason, no sweepy under carpetty pls. I don't think this is a town nuke.

##Vote: Bill Murray

---

Random other things - sandroba looks better than other games lately, reads are more indepth, also I like performing a sexy naked dance while his eye is on me
My early damdy read good read
TalkingDead lynch bad lynch

Onegu may be mafia, the multiple !!! seem really OTT and follows up with this random post directed at a bunch of people with no meaning behind it

On May 11 2015 20:50 sandroba wrote:
@marv I agree with all your points (BM, onegu, damdred), but I'm having a hard time with the TD town read so if you could go into a little more detail maybe I can be convinced and get over it. The only thing that actually gave me pause was that he insinuated something that I think damdred caught onto as well.

On May 11 2015 22:08 Palmar wrote:
If marv is mafia I'm claiming that my loltastic analysis was the tipping point.

On May 11 2015 22:09 sandroba wrote:

I changed my mind on damdred quite some time ago and have said so already. I was saying that I agree with some of his reads, but I would actually like him to elaborate on something because I have a really bad feeling about his posting so far. His reads all seem very shallow and direct, he doesn't seem to be considering other angles, is very dismissive, disconected from the game like he doesn't really care about the outcome and lacking emotion I usually see in his games as town. Not sure if I really answered your question, but I was really trying to get something out of marv without getting on his face to see how he would interact with me. So far I'm displeased.

On May 11 2015 12:20 sandroba wrote:
If I'm wrong about this TD thing, which certainly I'm considering, I think Oats and yamato both look quite bad. I'm feeling better about damdred already.

On May 12 2015 03:37 Damdred wrote:


Most people have vivax as scum though.

Why though? Someone always looks worse than others, do you think xata is town?

On May 12 2015 03:46 rsoultin wrote:
18/60

you're saying tmi

you'd have to be braindead to think marv is scum at this juncture

be useful vivax

burning through posts -_- going to actually finish my term papers now...vote is on vivax, could change to bm with little persuasion just cause if someone that dumb has nukes don't really care if he's town or not -_- onegu would be a good lynch too but i don't expect that to fly over the others right now...i've stopped expecting people to pay the slightest attention to my scumreads unless they're wrong \o/

On May 12 2015 03:57 Bill Murray wrote:
I guess I'm just going to keep my vote on Vivax. I was the first to call him out on not posting for 3 days and what he has done since coming back has been 2nd worse in the entire thread

I realize my play this game has been shit and put an easy target on my back for the mafia

I'd like to point out that Onegu is clearly anti town too if you want to look into that

On May 12 2015 04:00 Xatalos wrote:
Could lynch Vivax so far. He hasn't done much and what he's done is sheeping thread sentiment on myself and randomly scumreading Damdred for a pretty far-fetched reason. Both targets for suspicion-spreading are probably town. I think his scum meta was being useless which fits here well enough.

Not really sold on TD. I think his reads seem decent enough and he's put in some effort. How exactly is he "blending in" or something?

On May 12 2015 02:52 Vivax wrote:
On my read so far I also had the feeling JAT was mafia but I really had nothing I could justify it with. On the other hand lots of people seem to think the same but I will need to find something tangible on my own.

The nuke business was pretty interesting. Trfel was in the scummish list of BH during N0 and D1 BH didn't really bother to even figure his alignment out before deciding the anti-nuke. He only asked a question but doesn't seem puzzled about whether he should use it or not.

On May 12 2015 06:22 Bill Murray wrote:
I feel like Blazinghand's role is completely bullshit
it's like I don't even have a role.

On May 12 2015 07:31 GlowingBear wrote:
Give me one reason BH is town other than protecting a guy this early without even knowing his role.

I can't see BH's anti nuke coming from town perspective. His double standards on truffle and marv, and the decision of immediately stopping BM's nuke instead of further inspecting truffles nuke is too scummy.

If truffle is town, BH was trying to get town cred
If truffle is Mafia, BH was protecting a scum partner.

I can't see his reaction to the first nuke coming from a town perspective, specially when he asks for permission to palmar.

On May 12 2015 07:31 GlowingBear wrote:
Give me one reason BH is town other than protecting a guy this early without even knowing his role.

I can't see BH's anti nuke coming from town perspective. His double standards on truffle and marv, and the decision of immediately stopping BM's nuke instead of further inspecting truffles nuke is too scummy.

If truffle is town, BH was trying to get town cred
If truffle is Mafia, BH was protecting a scum partner.

I can't see his reaction to the first nuke coming from a town perspective, specially when he asks for permission to palmar.

On May 12 2015 07:52 GlowingBear wrote:


Consider yourself with the anti nuke ability.
You see a town read with one page of filter getting nuked after 48 hours.
You don't know anyone's alignment (you're town, duh). Will you further investigate this guy alignment to decide if you really waste your anti nuke or you immediately use it and shut down thread progression?

Only a guy with perfect information would react that way.

To me, Kelsen, BH asked Palmar's permission so he could blame Palmar once marv flips read. This is somehow approaching WIFOM territory, but very plausible.

On May 12 2015 08:33 Blazinghand wrote:


the hosts haven't posted it in the thread yet but I assume it will happen shortly

On May 12 2015 08:47 Damdred wrote:


Why would Trfel,get nuked

On May 10 2015 23:57 rsoultin wrote:
6!



Hi

-radiates ksc's head some more so he has an excuse for poor reading comprehension- xP only town reads/town leans lol >< i refuse to bow to the man! \o/ and make pretty colored list posts. read, you boob, or stop talking about me

bueno

ls is right; hts can have wobbly entrances as scum which is why i go for the toneread early on her (and no, i do not intend to ignore everything else from her)

you are kinda right, ls, in that my reason for the truffle read is weak. it's also not actually in the thread he's just one of the players i'm best at reading early lol and i'm not interested in going into something that only means something to me

hmmm @ marv

jat also gets a hmmm...the early commitment is nice but lol i doubt my hts toneread, awesome amazing-sauce as it is, is the only thing in this thread worth commenting on xP

at least palmar doesn't even pretend to be contributing lolol

stutters you make me ;o;

like xata. will share why later. or someone else can tell me why xD -makes puppy eyes at the thread-

On May 11 2015 05:06 rsoultin wrote:
9!

ze awesome ones:

hts - clear town after posting xP
jat - missed his second post lol >< fail rsoul

not quite so awesome but cool
damdy
truffle - lazy ass -_-
xata - toneread based primarily on the below post (inclusive)



ksc
ve - see ve's comment on rol

blah diddy blah diddy blah (i.e. nulls and slight leans not worth mentioning)


marv - just ick
bats
stutters - eh, what's the point of posting at all?
rol - see ve's reasoning

><
bm
onegu - get this trying too hard to hammer home that he wanted to be scum this game feeling, frankly

bueno

questions? ask

there's my list for those with poor reading comprehension...things i haven't explained already or that changed got blurbs \o/

also, tbf got a "rayn" feeling of the TalkingDead as well lol ><

On May 12 2015 07:17 rsoultin wrote:

34/60

i'd prefer oneg cause i'm more sure on him...

won't lynch ls or vivax today...i'm not sold they're town but have reasons to think they could be

xata and oats i'm fine with lynching, though. oats feels off cause of what i've said and i'm okay with sandy's points on him, too, and i dunnae xata just...eh. lol he can fool me easily. carol proved that. and i find it really difficult to believe he's already forgotten carol -_- and vivax going after him hard, cause i remember it quite clearly

On May 12 2015 10:46 rsoultin wrote:


cause you apparently can't read an entire filter when you're filter diving <3

how many times have i said your reading comprehension needs work this game?

On May 12 2015 10:55 rsoultin wrote:


so...preliminary townread based on just one post, and then my reason is in the post you quoted (but oddly didn't bold the reason) yet you can't figure it out?

-_- i don't really know what to tell you, ksc. TRY to read everything maybe? it helps

On May 12 2015 11:00 ObiWanShinobi wrote:


Why?

On May 12 2015 11:01 Bill Murray wrote:

I was at the point he voted TalkingDead, who I'm pretty sure is Geript, and mafia. It's either Geript or Raynpelikoneet. If It's Geript he's scum.

On May 12 2015 11:04 rsoultin wrote:


-squints at- it's either not a good enough reason or it is? like why would me saying that is my reason if you already saw it and it wasn't a good enough reason then change your opinion? (newsflash: that's just part of what was in the post -_-) but yeah...i don't get it

On May 12 2015 11:09 ObiWanShinobi wrote:



You're one of those weird guys that rolls scum more than town so I don't really have a good grasp on your range yet.



I don't really care much for this reasoning tbh.

On May 12 2015 11:13 rsoultin wrote:


wtf? real? seriously, dude, if you're not actually a native english speaker you have got to let me know, because otherwise this makes no sense. since when does someone having "fake" reads mean you should be townreading them -_-

i had a light tonal read on xata early in the game. he hasn't impressed me since. he's fooled me before and his conveniently forgetting carol and vivax's tunnel on him doesn't sit well with me. the only part of this that wasn't in my filter before is that it was a light tonal read, though that should be obvious from context -_- i talked to damdy about xata quite a bit and am admittedly trusting damdy on him because i know that damdred can read xatalos better than i can. how is this difficult? it's all in my filter -_-



you have good reads sometimes gb lol please keep talking about them

the reasons sometimes are odd but that doesn't mean you should stop sharing them

On May 12 2015 11:23 rsoultin wrote:
doesn't explain the "which of your reads is real" comment but i'm just going to put a pin in this for now -_-

i don't really mind people not getting things or even calling me scum for it, cause i've been jumping around a lot more with the posting restriction than normal, but you dropped that read awfully fast for what seemed like very little reason...makes me itch -_- like if you legit didn't see the rest of the paragraph you bolded the sentence in cause you're skimming like a dolt, whatever, but what i said shouldn't have changed your mind, which is why i'm having trouble with it -_-

meh. anyone else find that odd or am i just keying in on inconsequentials?

On May 12 2015 11:30 rsoultin wrote:
fine. so maybe the problem is that you apologizing to me looked to me like you were retracting your read. am i scum or aren't i, ksc?

On May 12 2015 11:35 rsoultin wrote:
...

i'm going to assume that was meant for me and not ksc -_-

not sure why you seem so damn timid around me, ksc, if you really think i'm scum. i really don't think i'm that scary a person. can tell you one thing, though...that half-assed bullshit isn't going to get me lynched any more than onegu's non-points lol ><

On May 12 2015 13:48 Oatsmaster wrote:
BH is town probably.

This shit is so bad though

What a waffley defence that is super weird.
I read this and instantly thought of scum asking xata to defend BM and this is what he came up with.

On May 12 2015 18:58 marvellosity wrote:
Seen it been mentioned a few times, but I think BH is a pretty terrible lynch, certainly anyone saving me from a nuke I am not going to vote for today.

Three people who I think are good lynches, other than BM:

Vivax - somehow when I read his posts last night they didn't seem *too* uninteresting. So I was left feeling a little town from it. But in the end, they led nowhere, game has been going on quite a while now, not enough to hang my hat on

Oats - promised GB he'd try properly this game. I don't really remember his posts.

Xatalos - he's boring. that's enough.

I'm not very sure about my earlier Onegu read. I read Onegu + rsoultin arguing last night when I was pretty baked and I couldn't work out what the fuck was going on. Anyone have any bright insights?

On May 12 2015 06:51 Bill Murray wrote:
Onegu is traitor too
just need to find 2 more mafia. looking @ xatalos/talkingdead/vivax

On May 12 2015 16:22 Bill Murray wrote:


So Trfel makes excuses
"ill be absent"
"this post it so ensure that i comply with the one post every 24 hours rule" then he posts a video... cool. really beneficial
before this all he had done was harass people

Then I nuke him for behaving like this, which didnt fit how he played last game as town

WITHIN AN HOUR of him "fulfilling his daily post on mothers day", he posts:


And not only that, but he wants to misrepresent what happened
He instead attacks me NOT for me nuking him, but wants to lie and come up with some bullshit excuse to basically omgus me

1) he tries to nuke me in return
that doesnt work
2) he votes me
3) he then proceeded to ask me if i have any more nukes after unvoting
4) he finds out i have no more nukes
5) he votes me again

this guy isnt enjoyable to play with, and his behavior is self serving and scummy as fuck

On May 12 2015 09:02 TalkingDead wrote:
Reposted because it's relevant and people seem to have dropped the idea entirely.

However, the person that I find the most interesting is Oatsmaster. Generally what I've seen from Oatsmaster as town is that he's abrasive and does his own thing. Whereas in this game, he tends to just follow what's going on with thread sentiment. Specifically:

On May 13 2015 02:31 Xatalos wrote:








I can't explain what Oats is doing with his reads either. What happened to your scumread on sandroba suddenly, Oats? You're accusing him for a while and suddenly he's just incomprehensibly town.

On May 12 2015 22:14 Oatsmaster wrote:
Sandro is playing wayyyy differently than any of the scum games Ive seen him in.

On May 13 2015 04:35 Vivax wrote:
Oh and I forgot JAT. Rso can go to townish pile for now but didn't read carefully yet.

On May 12 2015 04:49 Vivax wrote:
Rso no that much of a pita in this game, what's going on? Actually explaining her reads all the time not just interfering with other people's.

Might be she's aiming for the townie of the month award but then that's what's odd about all of that.
Also she seems particularly attentive to stuff adressed to her, also feels unusual.

Metatonish read, not the rso I'm used to who was always the townie one.

On May 12 2015 03:46 Xatalos wrote:
Well the only stronger reads I have so far are a scumread on LS, a townread on sandroba and a townread on Damdred. Can't say something is strong if it simply isn't.

On May 12 2015 04:00 Xatalos wrote:
Could lynch Vivax so far. He hasn't done much and what he's done is sheeping thread sentiment on myself and randomly scumreading Damdred for a pretty far-fetched reason. Both targets for suspicion-spreading are probably town. I think his scum meta was being useless which fits here well enough.

Not really sold on TD. I think his reads seem decent enough and he's put in some effort. How exactly is he "blending in" or something?

On May 13 2015 02:00 Xatalos wrote:




Tbh I think Onegu *is* actually soft claiming Traitor here. "Not happy about being town", "I want to be scum".... Even with the actual word "Traitor" in there. It's pretty blatant, yeah, but it would make sense to be somewhat obvious to get the scumteam to notice you. I think he just went slightly overboard there while doing that.



Then there's this... Basically he's defending himself using the argument that he was too stupid / didn't think when posting that. It just feels off that he would specifically defend himself using the "dumb" argument. I get the feeling that he planned it out and was preparing to use that defense just like this after fulfilling the purpose of signaling the scumteam.

He's also not really interested in figuring the game out at all. He's just wasting his N0 posts, continues wasting his D1 posts (giving some shallow reads and one-liners like going through the motions, but otherwise nothing noteworthy)...




His most recent post showcases the lack of interest in anything useful, even going so far as to push scum agenda (simultaneously wasting his posts and fueling the fire/chaos in thread).



Weird defense of BM? I really don't get what this is supposed to mean. Unfortunately we apparently can't know BM's alignment anymore.



This is pretty much his biggest contribution to the game. Pretty... inconclusive / weak. It wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't the only thing he did so far.

On May 13 2015 02:31 Xatalos wrote:








I can't explain what Oats is doing with his reads either. What happened to your scumread on sandroba suddenly, Oats? You're accusing him for a while and suddenly he's just incomprehensibly town.

On May 12 2015 20:16 KelsierSC wrote:
Morning everyone, I think i'm right near the cap limit so don't want to make too many posts , just going to update where i'm at and who I would vote on.

Firstly though

On May 12 2015 13:48 Oatsmaster wrote:
BH is town probably.

This shit is so bad though

Show nested quote +

On May 12 2015 02:50 Xatalos wrote:
About BM: Never played with him before. His nuke spectacle was basically an anti-town way of using the ability, so it might be necessary to policy lynch him or just Vig him. Typically crazy plays come a bit more often from town than scum so that holds me back from just saying anti-town -> scum.

What a waffley defence that is super weird.
I read this and instantly thought of scum asking xata to defend BM and this is what he came up with.

I think this point is really good, this reminds me of the Carols game where I made some awful play as mafia and xatalos made up some waffle to defend me for it, furthermore in that game damdred made a point that xatalos looks more like town when he is mafia, his play this game seems formulaic town.

I think this is a good read from oats and I won't lynch him today.



I drank a whole bottle of wine last night and was pretty fucked up but I thought that onegu felt town in the exchange, he showed some good buck , the points against him were pretty weak all it amounted to was that he claimed traitor or something stupid like that.


----
I would lynch BM, reading his posts it's just awful I can't really give it a better word. something like 12 hours after his nukes he gives these long winded reasons about how he wants to "generate conversation" in a thread where things were already being talked about, then says how he has this huge burden and wants to make people aware of it.

he looks for a lynch on onegu with this dumb shit



yeh onegu claimed traitor ok, and then gives 3 people who are the thread sentiment mafia.
posts a load of stuff about onegu

then trefl his mafia, but town for lurking is now mafia again



a very weak read overall he just seems to bounce around trying to get something to stick that isn't himself.

his nuke play was scummy, taking that out, the rest of his play has been terrible
I don't understand how anyone has a townread on him at all and he needs to be removed from the game.

So moving on.

I'd probably lynch
BM, Xat, TD,

in that order.

The only thing that gives me pause about lynching BM is that TD has basically pushed that and nothing else. my earlier points on TD still stand and are available to view in my filter.
His read on oats is a total fabrication,



saying oats isn't being abrasive isn't supported by the first line of oat's statement.

So aside from a weak oats read TD has tried to push a lynch on BM and has raised the point that "even if he is town he will just be a pain to hear about"...giving himself an excuse for when BM flips town? you lynch the guy you think is mafia you don't lynch the guy who is town but will be a pain to read about. if you don't want to read about him then you can push discussion elsewhere in the next phase.

The likely scenario for me is that I will listen to palmar, marv and damdred and cast my vote to kill any of my scum reads.

I have other scumreads but not really worth discussing, incidentally where has JAT gone to?

I also want to hear something from bats, just anything really

On May 13 2015 07:17 Xatalos wrote:
I have to wake up very early tomorrow so I'll try to make this brief.

HtS - Could you explain why you're still just referencing your old case on me when it was made based on like the first 25% of my posts? I don't think you've really touched on anything after that. You're even still talking about "murky reads" or something... Based on my first brief read post I guess.

KSC - you're just flat out misrepresenting things. Like you saying that my post about Oats was wrong when you never bothered to do anything about the post where I explained why YOU were wrong. And me voting Vivax rather than myself (duh?). And going after Onegu as an "easy target" (does scummy = easy these days?). He wasn't even being voted at all.... Just what....

I think we should probably lynch Onegu, Vivax or BH. I'd really, really rather not day my tomorrow to stay up until the lynch.

On May 13 2015 07:25 Xatalos wrote:


You never responded to my response about Oats and went ahead with that part in your case anyway....

And I already explained earlier that I agreed with marv on BH....

But I guess you're just not reading.

On May 13 2015 07:54 Trfel wrote:
Bleh.

I'd still want to lynch Onegu the most, but it seems that the lynch is between Vivax, Blazinghand, and Xatalos.

In which case I think that the best chance is with Vivax.

I don't find Xatalos terribly scummy from the perspective of him being extremely busy and not having the time to make really deep reads. He isn't pretending that he is playing at his full ability.

I don't really like Blazinghand, but he hasn't really made reads yet. I mislynched him last game, and he's willing to do whatever he feels like. I just don't feel confident that he is scum because he hasn't given very much to work with.

I don't see what is so impressive about Vivax's posting as of late. His posts don't feel like they have any direction or focus, and he isn't elaborating on his main scumreads. He's pushing reads all over the place, but nothing is very well explained or detailed. Furthermore, Vivax is going to be away for a while, so there will be no more information with which to read him.

On May 13 2015 08:45 Trfel wrote:
Does anyone want to switch to KelsierSC?

The only reason that I think he is town is meta and activity. Meta being that he was very aggressively poking at people earlier, but in his town games he tends to townread people early (this is uncertain, though, since I did not find a scum game of his where he posted early in the game).

His reads have changed with seemingly little reason and his focus has been on the wrong things. I find it hard to see his reads coming from a town mindset.

On May 13 2015 08:49 yamato77 wrote:

ksc's reads are always terrible

he's just town

On May 13 2015 10:30 Oatsmaster wrote:
Kiel, how did I float under the rader?

Yamato looks scummy as fuck for not saying anything other than lynch bh multiple times.

On May 13 2015 10:42 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
Terrible switch to Vivax that really shouldn't have happened. Just because you read Marv as town doesn't mean you should just up and sheep him whenever he shows up ITT. He said he was stoned and he basically switched off of BH for no reason.



Why do people think this guy is town? He just name dropped more than a third of the game without any real sense of direction or context and just made almost all of them seem suspicious. It's an incredibly unfocused post and reeks of mafia casting doubt.

On May 13 2015 10:48 Blazinghand wrote:
1/15 (including the generous donation from stutters)



Thanks, Stutters. I'll make sure to meet and/or exceed your expectations. I won't specifically mention any pms the host may or may not have sent me, but if *I* were hosting this game, I think the correct way to deal with Blazinghand's overposting would be to allow him 5 posts during N1 and 10 posts during the combined D2+N2 cycle. I'd be pretty surprised if Hapahauli diverged from this gold standard. Not saying anything about any PMs I may or may not have recieved from mods though, since that would be against the rules, just saying that I'd expect someone in my position to be allowed 5 posts N1 and 10 posts during D2+N2, and so some donations (AFTER THE START OF D2) would potentially be useful.

Since I have 14 posts for tonight, I'll make sure to stay focused. I definitely pushed it with the amount of posts near the end of D1 there but it prevented me from getting lynched. Sadly, I didn't have the thread influence to make the yamato lynch happen. My initial plans for the N1 involve talking about Yamato a bit, and investigating a couple other scumreads. Probably not rsoultin, since I think it's not important to consider her unless she lives to D2 (she's a very very popular N1 shot since she's universally townread in very game). Then it would be time to talk about her.

I'd be interested to hear a bit more from damdy about the his thoughts on what happened with BM and the nature of his Policy Shot. Although I appreciate stopping BM dominating the D1 discussion, what happened to the follow-up on LS and Xat? It's not the strangest thing you voted me (given that you didn't like the fact that I hesitated for like 30 seconds in thread to save Marv), but it *is* strange that you completely fell off on those reads. Maybe they just fell to the back of your mind, but I'ld like to hear what you have to say about them now, Damdred.

KSC, I'd like to talk to you about the evolution of your reads on Rsoultin. Early on, you chat with her a bit, then you express some skepticism about her play early on http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24234567 and wonder why people are so quick to (link) call her town. In your consolidated reads post (link)
you judge a lot of people on their interactions with her then say she gives you brain cancer. you then adds Rsoultin to your "town cricle and Trfel, to his enormous credit, calls your out on it. KSC, your response is (link):



which does not actually jive with n0, unless by standout you mean "person who made lots of posts.". The fact that she made lots of posts isn't new information at this point, so I'm wondering if you could elaborate a little on your thought process back there, or was it just you decided that peopel who posted extensively N0 were town, and hadn't thought of that until later on?

Your followup is to point out some posts by rso (link) then say (link) that her reasons for calling mafia are bad becasue she called people town.

Now here's the thing, I think rsoultin's reason for her 180 on Xata, which is, and I quote,



is probably one of the least convincing cases I've ever read. In fact, you definitely read this cause you bolded the text next to it. rsoultin then tells you about this reason, and your rsponse is:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24246204



Rsoultin calls you out on it and phrases the read more forcefully (if she did this before then I could see it be a little more convicning and you have this interaction (link) in which rsoultin basically calls you bad and your response is to apologise and make excuses, and remember, this is after you say rsoultin's like, in your town circle or whatever, then you say this:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24246281



and then this:



So now I'm confused. Are you null/confusedreading rsoultin, and don't know why people were townreading her (as earlier)? are you townreading her as part of your town circle? or are you scumreading her? or do you not want to lycnh her? Obviously there's a progression here, but I'm very very confused about what you are thinking near the end here. You then call Vivax's read on rso confusing (link) or confused, then vote Xat.

Eventually, you end up here:



I personally think there's quite a lot fish about RS (with the unusual amount of emotes, the super dense and difficult to read posts, and the "joking" vendetta that became serious during D1). I'd like to hear more about RS from you, KSC. IT seems like you're confused about your read WRT EoD stuff, but I'd also like to hear about what you were thinking as time went by during N0/D1 as well, when you have the chance.

On May 14 2015 08:41 Half the Sky wrote:
60/65
3 from Bats, 2 from Onegu

I'm back, gonna cram as much stuff I can in the last half hour here....

Bats



I wasn't clear on why you were voting Sandroba. I'm not clear on where you stand now. You'd probably be in all honesty a slight scumlean at this point.

I wasn't even scumreading you (Sandroba was) the first time you asked this and you seemed worried I was going to push your lynch.

This go, I just did a voting analysis even though I had stronger reads on other people for other reasons. I get a paranoia feeling from you, I don't recall you asking questions like this before.

Kelsier I had some questions to TD - what do you think of TD's answers? It's a few posts after my post on Stutters.

As an aside, I'm getting more irritated with LS's posting. He's not coherent but that's not my problem with him. He's not particularly being helpful either even with the use of meta. I know he throws meta links and he's been criticised for that before as town, but the one distinct thing I'm noticing as this thread grows is that LS will post mainly after he's called out. I've noticed that 2-3 times. From what I'm reading, he's sheeping his town reads, but I am having difficulty discerning from a scum who is sheeping a wrong read. Tone wise, I townread him in his scumgames, so I am ignoring that. The main scum tell for him is not posting as much.

LS, do you have any stances on anyone new besides those you have mentioned?

On May 14 2015 09:03 Stutters695 wrote:
So, if it wasn't obvious it is now. I shot palmar.