• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 19:51
CEST 01:51
KST 08:51
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins EWC 202538Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 202510Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202580RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15
Community News
LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments3[BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder10EWC 2025 - Replay Pack4Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced55BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams11
StarCraft 2
General
Serral wins EWC 2025 The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Interview with Chris "ChanmanV" Chan Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 2025 Classic: "It's a thick wall to break through to become world champ"
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) TaeJa vs Creator Bo7 SC Evo Showmatch FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 485 Death from Below Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars
Brood War
General
Nobody gona talk about this year crazy qualifiers? [BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder How do the new Battle.net ranks translate? BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams BW General Discussion
Tourneys
Cosmonarchy Pro Showmatches [ASL20] Online Qualifiers Day 2 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Online Qualifiers Day 1
Strategy
[G] Mineral Boosting Muta micro map competition Does 1 second matter in StarCraft? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever Nintendo Switch Thread Beyond All Reason [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok)
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread 9/11 Anniversary Possible Al Qaeda Attack on 9/11 Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
ASL S20 English Commentary…
namkraft
The Link Between Fitness and…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 610 users

Newbie Student Mafia IX - Page 106

Forum Index > TL Mafia
Post a Reply
Prev 1 104 105 106 107 Next
Superbia
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Netherlands8889 Posts
May 10 2015 22:12 GMT
#2101
On May 11 2015 06:46 -Celestial- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2015 06:43 Superbia wrote:
Also shoutout to town for pointing me in the right direction with prp.


Shoutout to you for getting an excellent shot on Stutters. Didn't have him read as a priority at all but BAM.

Although by the gods you were a stubborn bugger with your read on prp. Haha.


Yeah I'm pretty stubborn. My last few games I had scum but just let other town lead the lynch. So yeah, increasing stubbornness on purpose. :D
Minimal effort.
scott31337
Profile Joined January 2013
United States2979 Posts
May 10 2015 22:18 GMT
#2102
Rit - so I only had a half an hour and did my post on Monday - and I saw HtS say comments like "If you take C out of the picture, why is Scott scummy" among other things - I thought she was town - so yes I voted on someone else. Some people here are saying I should 100% vote the other wagon (I did in the other game as self-preservation, I was leading in votes) but with a couple hours here, I did not (I was incorrect on dis though). If I had more time I would've played it differently.

Can you explain a little more on the "no, just no." when -C- and sl think I should vote 100% HtS from your opinion?
Others can expand on this too if you'd like.


THIS WAGON IS HITTING MAFIA FOR SURE BOYS!
rsoultin
Profile Blog Joined November 2014
Netherlands15308 Posts
May 10 2015 22:23 GMT
#2103
ah well

scott lol a town is much more likely when leading the votes to not vote to save themselves than a scum...just you know statistically speaking, even though technically you should be most certain of your alignment over everyone else's in the game

hts and i in our first game refused to vote to save ourselves despite being threatened by everyone in the thread lol >< and ppl not voting fast enough saved us...though not the third townie up for lynch

i imagine that was what ritoky was referring to...if i remember the context correctly. although voting to save yourself is not alignment indicative in and of itself, not voting to save yourself means either you're scum protecting the other scum wagon or town
"rsoultin: Mafia Suicide Inducer...you have unlimited shots because you are so god-damn relentless." - marvellosity (2015)
prplhz
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Denmark8045 Posts
May 10 2015 22:27 GMT
#2104
gg!
http://i.imgur.com/M7t7egx.png
GlowingBear
Profile Joined May 2014
Brazil12446 Posts
May 10 2015 23:46 GMT
#2105
On May 11 2015 06:45 cakepie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2015 06:32 GlowingBear wrote:
I mean, of course he claimed doctor so they could get the counter claim and kill doctor at night.

But in a game where no blue has claimed yet, he could have claimed cop or vigilante, and the other blues wouldn't be able to tell if that was true or not. The lynch would probably go to another target, and some blues could slip after that fake claim, so it would help scum night actions...

meh


You mean, could have claimed cop or veteran (not vig; this game was doc/vig).

However, if I'm not mistaken, in this setup, cop fakeclaim effectively cc'd by vig, and vet fakeclaim cc'd by doc, because it's always one role from each pair. Prolly just going to temporarily catch some people who aren't paying attention to setup.


I don't get it. From the op, there is a possibility of a veteran/doctor and a veteran/vigi. He could only get busted if the true blue roles claimed right after
I'm adorable.
The Shining
Profile Joined December 2014
United States2406 Posts
May 10 2015 23:53 GMT
#2106
Tfw you're lurking TL and not a part of any active games...

*goes to play in corner by self* gg all. Till next one
Always and Never are two words you should always remember never to say.
scott31337
Profile Joined January 2013
United States2979 Posts
May 11 2015 00:00 GMT
#2107
Yeah we need a couple to post.

I'm ready for another! But those 20+ ones are too big for me. - a student or normal mini would be nice
THIS WAGON IS HITTING MAFIA FOR SURE BOYS!
cakepie
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
985 Posts
May 11 2015 00:19 GMT
#2108
On May 11 2015 08:46 GlowingBear wrote:
I don't get it. From the op, there is a possibility of a veteran/doctor and a veteran/vigi. He could only get busted if the true blue roles claimed right after


You're right, it'll still require a true blue to cc. What I'm saying is, in this setup, there's not much point to claiming a role that wasn't in the game, which you seemed to suggest here:

On May 11 2015 05:57 GlowingBear wrote:
Why the hell did prp claim Doctor instead of a role that wasn't in the game??? lololol


This game, doc fakeclaim draws out the real doc counterclaim. Now say, per your suggestion, scum knows it is doc+vig, so let's say they fakeclaiming vet instead -- but doing so would also draw out the real doc counterclaim, since only one of the two roles (doc/vet) can exist in the game. In this sense, it's practically functionally identical to fakeclaim either doc or vet, even though scum knows which one of four setups it is and town doesn't.
Likewise with the cop/vig pair.

Or did I misunderstand you somehow?


@TS, scott -- I've queued up the next student game, waiting for the go-ahead to post, won't be long now, I hope. Look forward to see you there!
sicklucker
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada16987 Posts
May 11 2015 01:20 GMT
#2109
He conceded right? I relized tictock was town from his spam then realized the guy with all the votes didnt post in 2 days lol
Tictock
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States6052 Posts
May 11 2015 01:24 GMT
#2110
GG

Feels like I was useless.
I can take that responsibility.
sicklucker
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada16987 Posts
May 11 2015 01:42 GMT
#2111
On May 11 2015 05:26 ritoky wrote:
i mean i called all 3 mafia as mafia by the EoN1 too, doesn't mean much.


I know your reads were so good thats why I wanted to kill you!
sicklucker
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada16987 Posts
May 11 2015 01:50 GMT
#2112
On May 11 2015 02:55 -Celestial- wrote:
Rioky's filter analysed, in full:

- Babbles about incoherently for a bit. Posting for the sake of posting. Eventually gets around to asking disfo about Superbia. Follows that up (which is good) and then goes off on incoherent rambling again.


- Goes to y0su and starts going on about Superbia again. Despite the fact that he's claiming that he doesn't think Superbia is mafia his ONLY pushes so far have been to poke at the thoughts of two newer players about him which is kind of weird. Like he's trying to persuade them to tunnel on him.


- Despite the fact he's done pretty much jack all so far and his filter is a pile of rambling off in random directions he quickly jumps on my red reading him early (because of that rambling and incoherent misdirection play) and says that the read is "lulz". Even though he's showing absolutely no evidence why.


- Incredibly quick to jump onto FF's side. FF is being heavily townread from the very start whilst ritoky has done bugger all. But quickly tries to align himself with the strongest townread person in the game rather than allow people to make their own conclusions. Easy scum motivation for this.


- Because I'm the only one heavily redreading him the next few posts are him pushing at me, looking for holes he can exploit. When he realises he CAN'T do this and that I'm pretty much being townread too he does this:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2015 12:04 ritoky wrote:
ritoky, ff, -c-

we will start from here


"Doesn't my name look pretty in green next to these others that people are townreading?"


- Now that scott is looking good for a lynch he starts trying to pick away at there too bit deliberately avoids doing anything too obvious. More slight pokes but nothing to ruffle any feathers. So far he's just quietly sat back and done just enough to make it look like he's doing something whilst doing relatively little whilst simultaneously consistently trying to place himself next to other people who are being townread.


- disfo pushes back on ritoky, pointing out that basically all he's done so far is pick at newer players and speculating that he's looking for an easy lynch. ritoky, rather than responding, retaliates by questioning disfo about scott. Even though disfo wasn't the only one ritoky was poking at. He handwaves the fact that he's pushing on new players by only referring to disfo and effectively saying that that isn't scum indicative. Yet he still fails to actually do anything dramatic.


- Reinforces he likes my scott read . In fact he's said that a few times now. Starts to question Superbia about scott. All aboard the scott train?


- Claims he's not scumhunting but is looking for town. Eh. Then once again puts himself with me and FF. "Second tier" being prpl (who had done jack all by this point and flipped red later) and Superbia.


- Claims prp is town for ONE POST in which prpl expressed a vague feeling about Shining. Wow. Just wow.


- Pushed for more details on prpl. Describes him as having made "one of the highest quality observations in the game". Seriously are we reading the same person? prpl has done bugger all by this point. Literally nothing of real value. And claims that prpl is giving definitive alignment reads rather than hedging which is absolute bollocks. prpl has posted game-relevant posts like three times by this point. Two of which ritoky had quoted in his own post. Neither of which outright scumread Shining. Just look at this crap:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/483492-newbie-student-mafia-ix?page=20#398

And compare with prpl's filter. The third game-relevant post is him agreeing with Superbia about how he doesn't think mafia has posted yet. Absolute joke; here ritoky is either a fool or scum.


- Superbia speculates about getting a sicklucker wagon going. ritoky throws out a weak probe at Superbia asking for more information.


- Stutters posts questioning ritoky's read and bussing prpl a little but hedges his bets saying that he doesn't think its definitive. ritoky immediately replies by making excuses for prpl. All a nice little ruse for the two of them to get some nice towny credit by questioning each other whilst also allowing ritoky to reinforce his "I think prpl is innocent" line?


- Superbia suggests a sicklucker train. ritoky is totally noncommital. Superbia points out that ritoky hasn't done anything with the vote anyway. ritoky says he doesn't believe in pressure votes. Goes back to asking Stutters for reads. Nothing particularly alignment indicative here although I don't like that he says he doesn't believe in pressure votes but the way he votes on HtS later is perfectly fine because it was seeking information. So he's clearly willing to vote people just for more info, which is it?


- Questions scott on Superbia and FF and asking why scott's read on them doesn't apply to him (ritoky). This is goddamn hilarious considering that scott was townreading both FF and Superbia. Once again he's DESPERATELY trying to get townread by people but nobody is buying it and its making him upset it seems. Seriously, just look at this:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/483492-newbie-student-mafia-ix?page=23#446
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/483492-newbie-student-mafia-ix?page=23#448


- Starts to pick up some people he wants to lynch. Shining because of a tone read (your own tone isn't so great yourself either, mate) and HtS because she's only just entered the thread and hasn't been able to immediately start drawing conclusions.


- Complains that y0su has been asking questions but not drawing conclusions and putting them in the thread. Which is kinda funny considering how bad ritoky has been at following things up and drawing conclusions himself (that is to say conclusions other than "HEY GUYS I'M TOWN!").


- Shining responds to ritoky's toneread of him; calling ritoky out for weakly scumreading people and doing jack all else. ritoky responds by saying Shining is overreacting, claiming he does have stances that are in the thread (his only strong stances in the thread are that a few obvious townies are town, prpl is town and "HEY GUYS I'M TOWN TOO!") and then saying he doesn't really have any proper scumreads except a weak one on HtS. So basically a pile of nothing at this point; and yet he's getting away with it by pretending to do something.


- Asks sicklucker to post more. Which isn't really indicative of anything at all. I think everyone was wanting to see more from him.


- Starts to say that he thinks y0su is top town now, saying he likes his process because it was similar to his own. Not alignment indicative, very easy comment to make.


- Drifts around aimlessly a bit on HtS with the whole "might be scum might be town" thing. Complains that she's drawing totally different conclusions to him (gee, sounds a bit like what I'm doing, doesn't it?).


- Goes back once again to disformation. He's got a real obsession with disformation here. Asking about scott now.


- Complains that nobody he reads well is playing. Goes both ways on disfo by saying part of his post he likes and part he doesn't like. So...what's your conclusion? Nothing again, okay.


- Explaining to disfo what he didn't like and giving a reason for it. Kinda towny. Then gets upset because disfo wasn't crediting him for the "we" thing that scott said.


- Makes one of the few strongly towny posts I've seen by saying "wrong =/= mafia".


- Repeats his earlier comment about HtS dialing into the same things but not having the same reactions. Nothing new here and frankly I'm not sure I like it. Someone not having the same reactions shouldn't be a case of "oh they're reading it differently, I don't like that". It should be a case of "they're reading it differently, I should TRY TO FIND OUT WHY". At least if you're town. If you're scum you can just make the vague comment and use it as an excuse to train on them.


- Finally goddamn "realises" that prpl is doing nothing at all. Starts to dislike him for it. Also mentions that he doesn't like Stutters though doesn't give any real conclusions as to why. Interestingly he much earlier commented that "if you read my mafia game I bus mercilessly". Setting himself up for either or both of them to flip red?


- Starts to pull back on the scott thing. Knows scott is going to flip green? I don't find his reasoning particularly scummy here but this sudden turnabout is interesting. Sure it doesn't help to not have a second train but considering he says he's so sure scott will flip...


- Starts going onto Tictock. Who didn't want to vote on scott even though he found it to be an appealing case and felt that prpl was looking scummy. Claims that Tictock was finding "one to be scum and one inactive" which is just...misrepresenting Tictock's post to a certain extent to make TT look bad. Casts doubt by saying "where's this hesitancy coming from?"


- Asks Stutters for posts. Asks Shining about his thoughts on Superbia reading filters. Whole load of nothing. Effectively more questions for questions sake, no real hard pushes for answers. Uses it as an excuse to cast doubt on Shining again though.


- Shows the first piece of self-awareness I've seen all game. It almost looks like he's setting himself up to handwave red reads on him by saying "well yeah, I look that way when I'm town sometimes" with this quote:
Show nested quote +
On May 05 2015 04:42 ritoky wrote:
because self perception is not always what others perceive. for example i have rolled scum in games, posted in the game and been like "i am town jesus here" and literal 0 people read me town. i have also rolled scum, thought i was shit and got universally town read.



- More stuff about Shining. Really doesn't like Shining it seems. "Complex null"


- Another attempt to put himself with FF whilst making HtS look bad:
Show nested quote +
On May 05 2015 04:53 ritoky wrote:
no i meant you're giving effort based reads on HtS, yet you avoid giving effort based reads on say...me or ff.



- Complains HtS looks "diplomatic". What?


- Jumps on prpl's train against HtS. Despite his claims lately in trying to take town credit for that he does NOT start that wagon.

Relevant quotes:
Show nested quote +
On May 05 2015 04:59 ritoky wrote:
i too am also interested in seeing where this goes. although i don't think scott is a bad lynch.

##vote: hts

Which is a response to this:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/483492-newbie-student-mafia-ix?page=35#693

Show nested quote +
On May 10 2015 03:39 ritoky wrote:
She was whining about my read on her but neglected the post where I said I intentionally blew the read out of proportion to create an alternative wagon.


You did NOT start that wagon moving you dirty liar. prpl did. Your vote was registered before his because he forgot to vote in the actual voting thread; although he apparently suddenly "remembered" half an hour later and did so without comment. Did you remind him in scum QT? Then you started saying that you're doing it because she's reading things differently to you (guess what? A bunch of people were) and that she usually leads from the front, despite the fact she joined the game pretty late on for reasons explained pre-game. Superbia was getting extremely frustrated with HtS and the lack of a proper alternate wagon at this point which I can understand and was mostly driving the thing. If ritoky were scumreading her so hard then where the hell was he pushing this wagon?


- ritoky doesn't push the wagon. He makes a few quiet inquiries to people about their thoughts on HtS and makes a snarky comment about her not pushing Tictock for an answer. Tictock made one single post in-between which was obviously an in-and-out job since he damn near missed the deadline. And I think HtS missed the post anyway.


- Calling out HtS again for responding after they started voting for her. Eh...and? *shrug* Also misrepresenting how HtS has been acting which is bad.


- Pre-emptively sets himself up for saying scott is green despite the fact that earlier on he was saying he liked the scott train but didn't like the lack of a secondary wagon.


- Claims that as town who is probably getting lynched you vote on who you think is the scummiest person rather than voting on the opposing wagon if you think that wagon might also be town. Both me and sicklucker disagree and honestly his thought process is here is stupid. If you're town you're the only person apart from flips and people who manage to get confirmed in certain ways (like Superbia's vigi kill) who you absolutely know the alignment of 100%. Even if you're pretty sure the other wagon is town you don't KNOW it. Therefore the best possible option for yourself is to try to keep yourself alive (again because you know you're town, but can't be absolutely certain of the other).


- Accuses HtS of OMGUS on him and prpl after HtS was poking at Superbia's posting.


- Starts to handwave his read on HtS. Setting himself up to distance himself from the read when she flips green? Saying it was all about setting up another wagon (again, you didn't start it up, prpl did, Superbia drove it). Now is calling out FF and prpl for dropping off and saying "where are my town buddies". Yet again "HEY GUYS I'M TOWN SRSLY!"


- Claims he's probably dying tonight. What for? Damned if I know why he thinks he's getting shot here because he's got no real reads apart from a weak red read on HtS and a bunch of nulls and townreads that he keeps drifting back towards null (his recent comments on FF for example) whilst simultaneously trying to align himself with town over and over simply by saying it.


- Pushes me for refusing to townread HtS just because she has the same reads as me. Sorry but no, I don't buy the "because someone has the same reads as me they're town" ethos.


- Starts asking HtS about why she isn't gunning for prp before saying "or do you have the same read I do on prp?" WHAT goddamn read on prp? You were heavily townreading and then have spent the previous two days tempering that with "oh but he's not been about much so he's going null", despite willingly going along with the train he started. You've hardly been GIVING reads except to say "I'm town, X is town and Y is town" over and over.


- Back and forth with Stutters. Not really alignment indicative. Given his much earlier comments about how he busses people I'm not really willing to accept any ritoky vs red discussion as indicative that he's town honestly.


- Disagrees on HtS point that having the same reads as someone else isn't alignment indicative. Big surprise there, he seems to put a lot of stock in it. Worked out well with prpl didn't it?


- Confirms me as town. Then puts himself, me and y0su together as town. Seriously, stop doing this crap. You are NOT confirmed town by anyone but yourself. Complains about HtS' tone but says she says townie stuff. Another "complex null". More complaints about HtS.


- Asks Superbia for a read on y0su. Probably because he was hedging his bets on y0su earlier by saying "maybe I'm just giving him a pass".


- "Scum side of null" for HtS. Totally unwilling to commit or actual build a coherent case.


- Questioning Superbia about y0su again. Despite the fact he's reading y0su as town he's asking Superbia what townie things y0su has done. Don't even know what to make of this, he's just all over the place. Also starts looking at FF again, asking about the dropoff.


- Said he was going to die, now is saying that I'm going to die. Whatever. Neither of us did anyway. FF did, and he was a very easy kill to take since everyone was reading him town but he wasn't quite as active as some of us.


- Explains his thoughts on me to Superbia. Not indicative of anything at all. Pushing prpl for his views on Tictock. But a very light exchange here. Neither saying very much. Towns me some more and FF I think. Weighs in on the RB claim by Superbia but doesn't really go anywhere with it other than to say he doesn't like sickluckers argument much. Thread was kicking a Superbia lynch about for a while which he said he didn't like. Comments that he doesn't like disfo or Stutters. Still blatantly ignoring prpl of course. WIFOMs a bit over the NK.


- More buggering about with the Superbia lynch, SL trying to push that on his calculations. Stutters is trying to bus prpl pointing out we have a really good lynch there. ritoky asks why he didn't push it D1 then which is...er...considering Stutters specifically stated its been good since NIGHT 1. Just a whole load of nothing, Stutters isn't moving his vote.


- Calls HtS out for saying 2 of the 4 people who didn't vote on the main green train are mafia. Not sure I entirely believe this argument. If both are running and both are green then why NOT jump onto the smaller one, especially if you can claim you were trying to get more information from the game by having two wagons. Claims that nobody has been towning Superbia all game and says that means people practically pre-voted and that its a too easy vote as a result. Setting himself up for a Superbia town flip? At this point the vote was dead even with two on prpl and two on Superbia, hardly a runaway train. Nulling Superbia himself; saying Superbia has been aggressively pocketing him (ritoky that is). So who AREN'T you nulling or townreading? Closes to an actual red is "Complex null" on HtS and Shining as far as I can tell. And STILL no conclusions on prpl.


- Complaining to Stutters some more about his read of prpl. Keeps going back to the "this isn't him being a good target since D1" which is something nobody except ritoky said. I don't think anyone is really paying attention to this discussion at all honestly. The bigger thing going on is between HtS and Superbia so its easily lost in the noise but gives something they can both neatly point back to as having done. Convenient.


- Asks Superbia about his thoughts on ritoky's read of him as null. Superbia is still goddamn townreading prpl for the same reasons that ritoky was townreading prpl; but ritoky is no longer doing so now that prpl is a viable lynch candidate (despite his only misgivings being "oh he's inactive" and not prpl's actual content at all; despite the fact that the argument against prpl also included content). How convenient.


- Linking disfom with prpl and Superbia as being the mafia team if they weren't having two voting on the main wagon. Making it look like this is a thought-through answer. Looking at the actual votes the only people off that wagon were scott (who got lynched), ritoky, Superbia and prpl. So basically the only two other people not voting on the main wagon that aren't him. It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to identify that this is basically the only conclusion you would make regardless; but the way you're presenting it is as if you've given it any thought at all. And you're hammering on how you think two are on the main wagon. Worried that someone might realise "hey, there were THREE alive people who weren't on that wagon and one was ritoky, could it be him"?


- More arguments with Stutters over prpl. Again I don't find it particularly indicative of anything. This is going nowhere in light of the fact the main focus is currently HtS and me trying to get through to Superbia that prpl is shady as hell.


- Makes his grand "prpl is a role or mafia" claim. Which I've pointed out previously is a terrible play. He's done jack all to try to find prpl's alignment and has, in fact, been somewhat defending him. Rather than trying to work out if prpl is scum or blue he calls on him to claim.

I repeat. He calls a person who he claims to have been wavering null on but has been actively defending against a bus to claim their role. This is beyond absurd and is horribly anti-town. The pressure is ALREADY steadily increasing on prpl, if he's a blue he's perfectly capable of claiming blue himself closer to the deadline if it still looks like he can't shift the train himself. He doesn't need that additional pressure but it does allow ritoky to pretend to be town in nature if he knows prpl is already considering fakeclaiming; precisely by saying he "forced out a claim" even though he's done NOTHING to pressure prpl lately.


- Starts hedging on Shining and disfo now. What a surprise considering disfo turns up blue. Nulling anything approaching a read once again. Claims he made an error in his spreadsheet with respect to Tictock and disfo and the earlier comments about who is what team if two mafia are off the main train. Basically irrelevant here. Starts trying to get me to notice that he's said "prpl is a role or mafia"; as if disappointed that people aren't praising him for the comment. Decides to start pushing on disfo, complaining that he's being too easily townread; can kinda see a bit of townie in that.


- Now he's lynching prpl unless he claims and doesn't get CCd. That's a nice little turnaround there considering you'd shown basically no sign of considering him until HtS and I started to push him hard as a lynch target and you haven't even commented on that all that much other than to ask that he claim. Says there's a red between Tictock and prp, y0su and Shining. The prp call is again just following the flow of the thread. He's really drawing attention to y0su being potential scum here which I kinda like in retrospect because right now I'm feeling y0su isn't a bad call either; but ritoky seems more likely given everything so far.


- Starts the stuff about him getting the wagon on HtS going and making excuses that he was intentionally exaggerating it. More stuff about how he doesn't think two mafia are on the secondary wagon (honestly at this point I think that whole argument has just devolved into total WIFOM; we can't know how the mafia voted and scott was probably dying ANYWAY given the number of votes on him). Some general gameplay type comments about how mafia play, obviously ones that makes his actions look town. Calls out prpl to give a claim again. Votes prpl.


- Then tries the whole garbage about "thanks for claiming my role, disfo". I've talked about this exhaustively but he still thinks its an obvious townplay. Its not, not in this setup. All it does is introduce confusion because no WAY does anyone other than a newbie scum team who is not listening to their coaches shoot anyone other than the first claim in a no-PM setup where such a gambit couldn't possibly be prearranged. Mafia doing the safest thing results in precisely what we've got right now: no way for the town to trust that ritoky wasn't trying to pull a fast one and sow confusion. There's a reason everyone seems to be rating him and y0su as basically auto-lynches for today and tomorrow. If they'd been willing to take more of a gamble (and assuming that ritoky IS innocent) then they could have shot another random towny and that could have resulted in the entire day spent just discussing whether to lynch ritoky or disfomation who, under this scenario, would have been both totally innocent. Much more of a gamble, but a bigger payoff potentially. Look into my filter for more stuff on this, last couple of pages of it I think.


- Stuff about statistics. Saying he doesn't want to lynch TT tomorrow (well honestly you mostly give off the impression you don't want to lynch ANYBODY except for a vague attempt to support the HtS lynch day 1). More excuses about your claim which I've already pointed out is just absurd. Claiming AGAIN to be confirmed town. Claiming AGAIN to have started up that wagon on her. Claiming AGAIN about how everything you do is "clearly town-motivated, come on guys, scout's honour". Then trying to get people to meta you (sorry, I don't really buy into meta arguments unless its people I've actually played with).


- Wavering some more over y0su. Claiming yet again that everything done so far was 100% townplay and anyone who says otherwise is wrong or lying. Despite the fact that I don't think anyone actually fully bought into the idea that he was town for it largely because it was never, ever going to work. Spends a bunch of time spewing stuff about how it makes him town and its a 100% correct townplay despite outright being proven wrong by examples of how it screws over town; which he dismisses as "garbage" despite the fact we're actually experiencing one of those examples right now (because, again, loads of people have him as the secondary lynch target after y0su). Then spends a bunch of time trying to undermine me but singularly failing to refute anything at all.




Conclusion:

Sorry but this entire thing looks horrible. Its either really poor townplay with a total lack of conviction on anything except "I'M TOWN" or he's scum. The fact that he doesn't even try to explain himself but dismisses it as "but its obviously town" looks even worse.


[image loading]

dat effort tho I bet someone wishes they conceded a few hours earlier
Fecalfeast
Profile Joined January 2010
Canada11355 Posts
May 11 2015 01:57 GMT
#2113
Fecalfeast mvp
ModeratorINFLATE YOUR POST COUNT; PLAY TL MAFIA
Superbia
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Netherlands8889 Posts
May 11 2015 01:58 GMT
#2114
On May 11 2015 10:57 Fecalfeast wrote:
Fecalfeast mvp


As per usual.
Minimal effort.
sicklucker
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada16987 Posts
May 11 2015 03:43 GMT
#2115
people are starting to caatch on to the great ff and his 90% win percentage and nking him
Stutters695
Profile Joined July 2012
2610 Posts
May 11 2015 16:53 GMT
#2116
Sorry everyone, I really wasn't here much

GG Town
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
May 11 2015 17:08 GMT
#2117
On May 11 2015 10:24 Tictock wrote:
GG

Feels like I was useless.


No you weren't. The first thing a townie has to master is looking townie. Which you did.
By showing us you were townie and how organic your reads were (I doubted that at points, but others were sure on you), we were able to focus on other people that looked scummier on you.

There's a flip side to that as mafia, but even if you aren't the best at finding scum, looking town helps the faction.
There are many ways to scumhunt btw and as long as we can follow what you're doing reasonably well, you generally will be okay as town.

Same thing as I told y0su, being a top town doesn't happen overnight. Patience is required.
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
May 11 2015 17:09 GMT
#2118
Celestial also deserves a nomination where it applies in the mafia awards thread for that insanely long post.
I know you're just off writing your dissertation but holy shit.
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
-Celestial-
Profile Joined September 2011
United Kingdom3867 Posts
May 11 2015 19:15 GMT
#2119
I like writing posts analysing everything so it didn't bother me too much, sicklucker. That one took...two and a half hours to do I think. Maybe three. Pretty much going through every single post in ritoky's filter.

Expect more in future games. Although probably with a bit more analysis. For that one as a test I kinda went "stream of consciousness" on it and I'm not as happy with the result as I would like. Was busy that day so I didn't have time to sit down properly and go through it and pull it together cleanly (which would have taken another two hours or so).

Just be thankful I wasn't still on Superbia because his filter was massive this game, about 50% longer again than ritoky's. So it'd have been an even BIGGER post.


@Tictock: You were fine honestly. Like HtS said you did a good job at demonstrating you were town which made it easier to nail down the scummy players. You were pretty far down my list of "most lynchables" at the end and I think most other people felt the same; which is a good talent to have when you play.
"Protoss simultaneously feels unbeatably strong and unwinnably weak." - kcdc
Tictock
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States6052 Posts
May 12 2015 02:34 GMT
#2120
Well, ok guess I did ok then if I had a few people convinced I was town, I was a little worried that scum was hiding better D3 and I was on a couple of people's lists to be killed.

D1 I didn't realize just how much time I was going to need to read and absorb enough to make reads on people. Ended up with no time and a little confused what I wanted to do.

Felt like I was able to pick up the ball after that and town was able to do the same with picking off prp D2. I found it a little odd though how a few people ignored my early suspicion of him and gave credit to -c- and HtS who solidified the case. I mean sure the deserve the credit for making him the clear target to town, but I felt like I got brushed aside as a newbie.

It was also a bit odd playing since I often found myself posting when nobody was around. D3 was the first day where I felt like I had an idea who and how I should push on, but the interactions felt so sour. Especially my exchange with SL left me pretty frustrated. Actually that's why I only posted that snippet before, wanted to give myself time to calm down and reflect before posting again.

I'll likely play again in the next newbie game to give Mafia a fair chance, but my experience from this game is pretty mixed. I've found that sometimes being totally honest and sharing what I think pisses people off a lot more than I expect, so I'm spoiler-ing the rest of my thoughts. So if I manage to piss you off just remember you choose to read this + Show Spoiler +

First off this is more or less about my stuff with SL, trying not to be personal about it, but if I fail sorry.

So I get that he plays this super lazy style, but I don't get why everyone just accepts it. I mean I put together some pretty solid reasons why I thought he was scum this game and put some effort into detailing why I thought that. This is instantly brushed off by everyone who isn't new SIMPLY because that's his Meta. Like really? Metas change you guys, if SL knows that he never does PoE as scum and knows that you all know that, whats to stop him just throwing that into a game as scum and suddenly everyone goes, "ok thats his town meta, mark him green"?

Maybe the biggest reason why that bugs me is because this is a newbie game. A game that HAS to have multiple new players who are learning. I noticed you guys tend to push newbies quite a bit and point out when their reads are weak in an instance. When I was seeing this I thought "of man, these guys are really gunna me on my feet, much less scum." Then I see SL doing the same stuff (giving weak, or unbacked reads, posting very little, etc) and everyone goes, "Oh he plays like that" How am I supposed to take this as a new person here? It's a bit of a double standard to push new players for stuff but excuse vets for the same stuff. A new player has literally NO WAY of understanding anyone's metas and besides reading past games has no way of learning. So either we have to accept what is being said about that person (removing our ability to judge them on our on) or go spend a ton of extra time reading for peoples metas. Why should we have to do all that work to understand a player who is just lazy?

I might not mind this style of play so much, expect that SL was outright giving bad advice to town the whole game. As town... in a NEWBIE game... simply because he's too lazy to do real reading so he comes up with "great mechanical plays." In addition when I was pressuring him D3, he keeps giving me glib one line responses, and eventually stars just calling me names. One post that showed more than 5 seconds of thought or minimal effort would have given me pause, but that's too much effort. That REALLY bugs me. Then he just gets defended and my whole bit of reasoning is thrown out the window, because of one word, Meta.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say meta reads should never happen. I totally get the value, I just see Meta reads as possibly misleading due to changing metas. It's when that's literally the ONLY defense for a person's actions/play that late in a game. That's an issue for me.

I feel like this is telling me I shouldn't bother to try so hard. It might look bad to be lazy, but it will soon get read not as lazy, but as meta. Not only will it let me avoid reading or giving more than minimal effort, but it makes my scum game easier to play since my town game already will luck scummy. Are you guys really ok sending this message?

So thats my rant, here is my question.

Given that SL's town play is at best lazy, and possibly hugely detrimental to town (if we had followed his play on D2...) why isn't he just a policy lynch every game? You possibly catch an easy scum, at worst get rid of an unreliable town.
.
I can take that responsibility.
Prev 1 104 105 106 107 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 11h 9m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Codebar 8
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 775
firebathero 155
ggaemo 95
NaDa 44
Aegong 35
HiyA 32
Sexy 5
Dota 2
monkeys_forever497
capcasts288
NeuroSwarm81
League of Legends
JimRising 573
Super Smash Bros
AZ_Axe191
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor219
Other Games
tarik_tv22649
summit1g12873
gofns10725
Grubby2627
Maynarde112
ROOTCatZ91
ViBE62
JuggernautJason28
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1986
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta142
• Hupsaiya 70
• RyuSc2 52
• Sammyuel 17
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki3
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Doublelift4861
Other Games
• imaqtpie1245
• Shiphtur150
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
11h 9m
OSC
1d
Stormgate Nexus
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
LiuLi Cup
4 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
[ Show More ]
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
FEL Cracow 2025
CC Div. A S7

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Non-Korean Championship
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
HCC Europe
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025

Upcoming

ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
Roobet Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.