|
11589 Posts
On April 24 2015 22:20 Damdred wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2015 13:58 Trfel wrote:On April 24 2015 13:38 Damdred wrote:I'm not sure what else you want me to explain, Art really isn't helping town Trfel at this point is being pretty wordy while showing the thread that her suspicions while leaving doubt in there for a backtack for example Though I'm not very good at meta reads, and I don't have much experience playing with yamato77. For someone who was sure of this read enough o dig up old games, much doubt is put into it and distance is put inbetween in case yamato flips town. Would you rather I be confident in my play to a degree far higher than my skill at mafia warrants? One surefire way to find town players is to look at my scumreads. Here's what I'm thinking, and yamato77 is a scumread of mine. But I see ways that this read could be wrong, so I'm asking and sharing my thoughts. I could keep holding my thoughts to myself, and analyzing him myself, or I could leave it open to the rest of the thread, where everyone is better than me and can analyze this better than I can. It's a matter of honest, not a matter of alignment. I mean, if you want me to push my reads to the end of time, I can do that. If you want me to throw the game for town, I can do that as well. Up to you. 1) Underplaying yourself is one of the scummy things that I believe exists 2) The main issue is that you come out of the gate really strong on Yamato. Heres why I think hes scum, and you line up all these reasons but then at the very read you dismiss yourself and make it seem like you aren't strong on him at all. 3) How do you know its throwing the game if you push your Yamato read forever? If you think hes scum legitimately you wouldn't think you would be throwing the game, if you are scum you know that it will lose the game for town. Hence why you just said "If you want me to throw the game for town" you said for town because you aren't town. ##Vote Trfel
as far as the trfel thing goes, I just think he's bad
I mean, his case is pretty weak overall and obviously he isn't amazingly confident in it, but I've come to realize that maybe he just plays this way
I dunno if I've ever seen a mafia make a case and then turn around and say, "but this is why I could be wrong", at least to the degree that trfel is doubting his own read.
He's not going to convince anyone playing this way, but I've been in his spot as town before, many a time. It's not like his read is changing inexplicably, in a scummy sort of way, it's just that he's uncertain. Uncertainty can be a town tell.
|
lol the thing about you yamato is i like you when you post (the majority of the time) :/
so what was going on at EoD D1?
were you really more sure about BH who you thought we should give more time to than say artanis and wave who you'd been pressuring most of the game earlier?
what happened during that 40 minutes of silence when you disappeared right before deadline?
|
oh and if you think artanis is scum, do you have another scumread?
|
11589 Posts
On April 26 2015 15:24 rsoultin wrote:
lol the thing about you yamato is i like you when you post (the majority of the time) :/
so what was going on at EoD D1?
were you really more sure about BH who you thought we should give more time to than say artanis and wave who you'd been pressuring most of the game earlier?
what happened during that 40 minutes of silence when you disappeared right before deadline?
eod D1 I felt like it was most important to have a read on BH, as no one else was really being pushed as a lynch target and not much else was being discussed
at that time, trfel looked kinda bad to me but wasn't a clearly good lynch. given that you disagreed with my read of him and no one else even was around to comment on it. I liked artanis' line of questioning of trfel also at the time so it was difficult to see him as scum when he had the exact same criticism of trfel's play that I did.
Wave I need to read more in depth. I have this bad tendency of just glazing over his posts because they are generally quite wordy and it's difficult to get a handle on his play. I still think his early play was odd but I really need to revisit him.
Honestly, the eod D1 thing was also sort of selfish in that I wanted more time to reformulate my reads. I felt a bit lost at that point and saw I was failing to convince people to wait and see with BH so I just sort of stopped playing. It was bad but only you and Artanis were even around and you weren't budging. Meh.
I'll read Wave and Artanis' filter and post more concrete thoughts. I really haven't read anything posted this cycle so >_>
|
11589 Posts
On April 25 2015 19:41 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
##Unvote
Palmar reacted pretty much exactly how I'd expect Town!Palmar to reply. Uncompromising and in your face whilst still doing stuff.
Need to think about Yamato.
...
Artanis' read change apparently happens over just a single page, basically because Palmar posts his case on me.
I doubt that town Artanis flips his strong townread of me and scumread of Palmar just because Palmar posts that case. zzz
More likely, it seems like Artanis saw that people were sheeping Palmar and decided to lynch down the path of least resistance, given that I haven't been playing and Palmar has played... on occasion.
His read of Damdred seems mostly based on some meta-assumption of Damdred's play which I can't comment on much. He does seem to back off his scumreads quite easily when pressured. At this moment I'm unsure what his reads are, as he sheepishly backing off as Damdred pushed back, and his read of me was sort of a matter-of-fact type of thing rather than a strong belief that I was actually mafia.
I would certainly lynch Artanis today, given his rather weak reads. I've commented many times on how his early play was scummy and how his comments on the BH lynch were bad, and reading his filter really doesn't change my perception of his play much, either. He's continued to excuse his lack of motivation to play this game and hasn't really played much better.
|
sorry, on the phone to my brother lol >< we're crazy and have 2 a.m. conversations
hrum
well i had an early scumread on artanis for tone...i'll take a good look at his filter tomorrow. we're going to lynch tomorrow, so what i would really like (since i presume you're still working?) is a detailed reads list
i'm actually okay with lynching artanis over you if it'll give you a chance to play after the weekend ends, cause every time i talk to you you make a lot of sense lol ><
that's assuming you have the time to read day 2...which you should given it's been slow until i started lighting fires and calling people lemmings 
|
11589 Posts
I'm going to continue to read stuff tonight
wave is next
starting monday I have no work so it'll be easier to play
|
alright ^^ sounds good...i'm going to actually sleep now like normal human beings do -_- if you've got anything specific you want to say to me/ask me, please mark it in some way?
ciao
|
Reading arts filter I really don't get the feeling he is scum. Nothing scummy really stands out to me
On April 26 2015 16:04 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2015 19:41 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
##Unvote
Palmar reacted pretty much exactly how I'd expect Town!Palmar to reply. Uncompromising and in your face whilst still doing stuff.
Need to think about Yamato. ... Artanis' read change apparently happens over just a single page, basically because Palmar posts his case on me. I doubt that town Artanis flips his strong townread of me and scumread of Palmar just because Palmar posts that case. zzz More likely, it seems like Artanis saw that people were sheeping Palmar and decided to lynch down the path of least resistance, given that I haven't been playing and Palmar has played... on occasion.His read of Damdred seems mostly based on some meta-assumption of Damdred's play which I can't comment on much. He does seem to back off his scumreads quite easily when pressured. At this moment I'm unsure what his reads are, as he sheepishly backing off as Damdred pushed back, and his read of me was sort of a matter-of-fact type of thing rather than a strong belief that I was actually mafia. I would certainly lynch Artanis today, given his rather weak reads. I've commented many times on how his early play was scummy and how his comments on the BH lynch were bad, and reading his filter really doesn't change my perception of his play much, either. He's continued to excuse his lack of motivation to play this game and hasn't really played much better.
I have a problem with the bolded because m fairly sure at the time the only person who had actually sheeped palmar was myself so he would have made that decision fairly early also do you even think im town? Because if you are null or scum on me it makes even less sense that you think this.
|
11589 Posts
So why do you think Artanis just drops his strongest read within just a page of the game and votes someone he had previously had a strong meta-townread on?
All post-hoc justification aside, it looks like an unnatural switch, even given the case. You can't also look at it so small-mindedly in that your vote was the only one, the case was gaining traction given the multiple people who commented on it in some capacity.
My read on you shouldn't really even matter. I think you're a rather forgettable player that many people seem to townread. That's about the extent of it without delving deeper.
|
11589 Posts
Reading Wave's filter, I intentionally sift through to find his vote.
Doesn't say much on its own. Let's backtrack a bit.
On April 22 2015 23:53 WaveofShadow wrote:
Unfortunately you're probably right about palmar but it's hard to shrug off his uselessness and targeting of me specifically.
I'm not getting hung up on wording but at the very least i know BH is capable of all sorts of play as either alignment. If I'm going to lynch him it's not going to be solely for stalling (despite his epic tech in call mafia).
Assuming BH is scum think the other scum might be Trfel but I havent had a chance to flesh that out much. Artanis' read on him is OK but relies way too much on meta for my liking.
On April 23 2015 00:24 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2015 00:08 rsoultin wrote:
okay, wave. vote bh with me
i'm looking through filters, and i'll discuss anyone you want...even start with the people you're suspicious of...however i think you're fully aware that voting bh is not "solely" because he's stalling lol ><
yes, he's stalling but he also wrote a giant-ass case with little-to-no original content, he's refused to talk about anything else, and he deliberately provoked me ^^ i've seen his town-game and this doesn't look like it
he was similarly useless then, but not to this extent
I do enjoy hammering. Gimme a bit to eat and we will discuss things.
On April 23 2015 00:33 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2015 00:31 Blazinghand wrote:On April 23 2015 00:28 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
It means you're just pointing out things and creating a story behind why it makes him scum when it's just as possible to create a story behind it from a town perspective. so whenever anyone says "narrative", they're just saying I'm wrong without explaining why or using specifics. kk Not true. It's just exceedingly simply to go through someone's filter post-by-post and say whatever you want about them to spin things in a specific light. My issue with you isn't even that specifically, I find that alignment non-indicative. My issue is the fact that you haven't read the thread and took everything damdred did completely out of context.
This is the lead-up to the vote and it's... uninspiring.
He goes from that truly awful first post with all the waffle and bullshit in the world to "I love hammering" to "You're scum because context, man".
On April 26 2015 03:17 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +Especially when you apply it incorrectly and presume that since Marv once told you that Yamato is absolutely terrible at scum, you figure he can't have 4 pages so far and have pushed some things.
Where did I do this? And no in my experience meta is shit terrible, and I am certainly not marv, one of very few people who can maybe attempt to use it correctly. essentially the call is are we feeling lynchy or do we wait for yamato And frankly by the time 48h rolls around im always feeling lynchy I want to see a flip so I'll sheep rsoul ##unvote
##vote: yamato77
Next vote, not entirely impressive either on its own. His read on me is just as all over the place as his read on BH was from D1. Yet again, though, he's sheeping rsoul and seems rather lynch-happy which is actually kinda scummy in an IML game. From my perspective, it's obviously pretty easy to see the mafia motivation to slapping your vote down on yet another easy wagon in the hopes of pushing through a lynch.
Just by looking at his voting justifications in this game, Wave looks pretty bad. He doesn't seem overly concerned with finding a good lynch, he seems like he's just dicking around and lynching whoever everyone else wants to without much thought.
I've noted the inconsistent and illogical nature of his reads this game, even very early on, so I won't go further in detail with that except to say that it really hasn't changed. A casual glance through his filter tracking his read on any single player is enough to prove that point.
|
On April 26 2015 18:33 yamato77 wrote:
So why do you think Artanis just drops his strongest read within just a page of the game and votes someone he had previously had a strong meta-townread on?
All post-hoc justification aside, it looks like an unnatural switch, even given the case. You can't also look at it so small-mindedly in that your vote was the only one, the case was gaining traction given the multiple people who commented on it in some capacity.
My read on you shouldn't really even matter. I think you're a rather forgettable player that many people seem to townread. That's about the extent of it without delving deeper.
When did he vote you? All i see is him thinking that palmars case and how he reacted to it is how town palmar would react so that then made him want to "think" about your alignment.
No I still think that when I backed palmar only damdred was really looking at his cae in a good light everyone else was disliking it because they thought it was an association read with you.
Seem like they are some classic scummy traits you attribute to me so maybe you should delve deeper.
|
I'm around if anyone's here and wants to chat. If not, I'll probably work on some analysis.
|
I'm hungover and behind.
I still think my case on yamato is very valid (although I haven't seen his response or anything).
So for now I'm leaving my vote there as I think it's the right play to lynch him.
|
+ Show Spoiler [NK WIFOM] +I don't think it's likely scum didn't shoot on N1. It seems rather risky when there's a potential blue out there so there could be saves etc. I feel it's likely that either a doc saved someone, we have a vet or a RBer blocked scum from shooting. I think if there's a RBer, they should out whom they blocked. Vets/docs obv shouldn't out.
I like the post Wave pinged out on Breshke
On April 26 2015 10:58 WaveofShadow wrote:
QUOTE]On April 26 2015 06:57 Breshke wrote:
I dont have much time ill have to leave soon and be gone for like an hour after deadline but rso your points seems to explain eachother.
I dont have any scunreads just a bunch of townreads then palamar drops a good casr on yama who is.not ome of my townreads so i dont see whats wrong with sheeping this. (what reasons do you even scumread yama for like couldnt you say your reasons are other peoples reasons aswell)
then to find the last scum I PoE and damdred and srt hadnt impressed me today when normally i feel like they are high impact players.
Ehhhhh I find this post hard to come from scum tbh.[/quote]
Makes me feel good on both Wave and Bresh because I see exactly what Wave sees here, and I feel like Bresh' game has felt really town in his tone as well. His reason for ending up TRing Rso also looked very genuine. Though it's something I've pointed out his changed tone before and mentioned he could potentially do it as scum, I don't feel like that's the case here. It's just too similar in tone to LXX.
I also think Rsoultin is likely town, not just for contributions but because her reads have really changed consistently throughout the game and though I know that Damdred's wrong, I can see why she doubts my alignment based on what Damdred's saying. I also see his point, though I disagree that most points he calls me scum for actually make me scum (I feel a bunch of them actually make me more likely to be town) but we'll get to that later.
On April 26 2015 12:13 Damdred wrote:Sad day im not higher and you have me linked with possible scum  . I actually think Yamato is towny in his filter I did a bit of research on yamatos scum games. He's not really destroying thread here and much more active than his sxum games. He has fallen off considerably this 48 hours and that is a red flag but he did the same thing in mini mafia 2 which just ended. I don't think it 100% clears him but I think his filter is really indicative of a town Yamato at this point.
I'm curious how you got this on Yamato because I checked his second to last mafia game and he was on 8 pages there and died at like D3. I don't feel like he's much more active in a posting sense, which was what I thought at first when I gave him the TR.
I'm not actually sure what to think of Yamato's read development on me the past two pages. It actually looks quite townie in that he was not commenting on arguments that he didn't feel he could on and pushing the things he does believe in. I don't really think a scum Yamato would be as selective in picking the arguments he has, but I need to check his scumgame out in a more in depth fashion. The problem with Yamato being town though is that this means someone that's pretty universally seen as town is scum.
I don't think it can be Breshke because of what I've mentioned, I don't think it's Damdred, Rsoultin also seems unlikely which leaves a pool of Trfel/Wave/Palmar. I'm gonna go and look more indepth in here.
|
I won't be lynching Yamato at all today.
Breshkes post towards Yamato about art gave me,bad shivers for some reason...I should reread it when I have time in a few hours. Gotta consolidate between art, Trfel maybe breshke. I'm listening to all cases.
|
Damdred if you could outline all your problems with me in an easy way for me to reply so I don't have to quote 6 different posts and create a complete mess that no one can follow that'd be dandy.
|
On April 26 2015 18:51 yamato77 wrote:Reading Wave's filter, I intentionally sift through to find his vote. Doesn't say much on its own. Let's backtrack a bit. Show nested quote +On April 22 2015 23:53 WaveofShadow wrote:
Unfortunately you're probably right about palmar but it's hard to shrug off his uselessness and targeting of me specifically.
I'm not getting hung up on wording but at the very least i know BH is capable of all sorts of play as either alignment. If I'm going to lynch him it's not going to be solely for stalling (despite his epic tech in call mafia).
Assuming BH is scum think the other scum might be Trfel but I havent had a chance to flesh that out much. Artanis' read on him is OK but relies way too much on meta for my liking. Show nested quote +On April 23 2015 00:24 WaveofShadow wrote:On April 23 2015 00:08 rsoultin wrote:
okay, wave. vote bh with me
i'm looking through filters, and i'll discuss anyone you want...even start with the people you're suspicious of...however i think you're fully aware that voting bh is not "solely" because he's stalling lol ><
yes, he's stalling but he also wrote a giant-ass case with little-to-no original content, he's refused to talk about anything else, and he deliberately provoked me ^^ i've seen his town-game and this doesn't look like it
he was similarly useless then, but not to this extent
I do enjoy hammering. Gimme a bit to eat and we will discuss things. Show nested quote +On April 23 2015 00:33 WaveofShadow wrote:On April 23 2015 00:31 Blazinghand wrote:On April 23 2015 00:28 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
It means you're just pointing out things and creating a story behind why it makes him scum when it's just as possible to create a story behind it from a town perspective. so whenever anyone says "narrative", they're just saying I'm wrong without explaining why or using specifics. kk Not true. It's just exceedingly simply to go through someone's filter post-by-post and say whatever you want about them to spin things in a specific light. My issue with you isn't even that specifically, I find that alignment non-indicative. My issue is the fact that you haven't read the thread and took everything damdred did completely out of context. This is the lead-up to the vote and it's... uninspiring. He goes from that truly awful first post with all the waffle and bullshit in the world to "I love hammering" to "You're scum because context, man". Show nested quote +On April 26 2015 03:17 WaveofShadow wrote:Especially when you apply it incorrectly and presume that since Marv once told you that Yamato is absolutely terrible at scum, you figure he can't have 4 pages so far and have pushed some things.
Where did I do this? And no in my experience meta is shit terrible, and I am certainly not marv, one of very few people who can maybe attempt to use it correctly. essentially the call is are we feeling lynchy or do we wait for yamato And frankly by the time 48h rolls around im always feeling lynchy I want to see a flip so I'll sheep rsoul ##unvote
##vote: yamato77 Next vote, not entirely impressive either on its own. His read on me is just as all over the place as his read on BH was from D1. Yet again, though, he's sheeping rsoul and seems rather lynch-happy which is actually kinda scummy in an IML game. From my perspective, it's obviously pretty easy to see the mafia motivation to slapping your vote down on yet another easy wagon in the hopes of pushing through a lynch. Just by looking at his voting justifications in this game, Wave looks pretty bad. He doesn't seem overly concerned with finding a good lynch, he seems like he's just dicking around and lynching whoever everyone else wants to without much thought. I've noted the inconsistent and illogical nature of his reads this game, even very early on, so I won't go further in detail with that except to say that it really hasn't changed. A casual glance through his filter tracking his read on any single player is enough to prove that point.
lol I don't see what's scummy about any of this tbh
Mebbe someone else can point it out
Not impressed with yamato's return nearly as much as the beginning of today.
|
Honestly no all my things are in thread. Do work cool guy.
I won't lynch Yamato. I've never seen scumyamato put that much words in when he's about to get lynched. Its really towny and has a clear focus
|
Votecount:
Yamato77 (2) - Palmar, WaveofShadow
until the end of the next cycle.
With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
