Newbie Student Mafia VII

On April 10 2015 09:41 Half the Sky wrote:


Townies can be incorrect. I pay attention to the tone and the timing.

Onegu in his town games, for what I recall, claims VT or town early on in game. I know I played Hammertime with him and I don't recall a VT/town claim in that. Admittedly I did not pay as much attention to XXX. If I recall correctly though from the obs QT, I think that claim came on pretty late, or when he was in more trouble.

On April 10 2015 10:10 Onegu wrote:
And I stopped claiming VT now I'm just claiming town. Completely different people comeon

On April 10 2015 09:56 rsoultin wrote:
such a serious onegu this game, and hts is looking townie so i want to lynch her xD

On April 10 2015 10:32 prplhz wrote:
complimenting my mom will get you nowhere

you can start by explaining how hts can look town when she thinks i'm scum

On April 10 2015 11:06 Breshke wrote:


opinions on dwarf?

On April 10 2015 11:07 Onegu wrote:
Ugh meh she seems like the type to do that with someone though

On April 10 2015 11:11 Breshke wrote:


I know what you mean but this post



The part about the digging old things really makes a lot of sense to me. If he is town i don't think he would care less even as a newbie if someone wa going to look into him.

On April 10 2015 11:34 Onegu wrote:



Yeah where is he? My vote is about to go on him or stutters

On April 10 2015 13:35 Ace1312 wrote:

Bourneq's Comment about Tone over the internet seems a bit naive. This is a game where the whole idea is to try to get an understand of the other players so you can lynch scum and save townies. It doesn't necessarily scream scum to me, but definitely someone I'll be watching to see if it was a terrible joke or scum tell.




prplhz's comment AND TheBloodyDwarfs comments need to be looked at here.

Prp could be town and trying to make a bad joke. It was early so it's possible. But prp could also be scum trying to throw everyone off by making a bad joke. Needs further looking into.

TheBloodyDwarfs comments is all but admitting to being scum. The poor choices in comments since then have also made me think scum. I feel Dwarf is our most likely scum read to this point, or just a really bad player.


Anyway, thats what really sticks out to me so far. So with that being said

##Vote: TheBloodyDwarf

On April 10 2015 14:09 Tubesock wrote:


It's that bad? I didn't read Titanic. So many games so little time. Man, I have a case of vet worship or something. I think everyone is really good who's played a few games.

Have any reads yet?

On April 10 2015 14:14 jarjarbinks wrote:
Apologies on the late posting. I'm retarded, but I am playing lol

I'll read up and post thoughts.

Prp could be town and trying to make a bad joke. It was early so it's possible. But prp could also be scum trying to throw everyone off by making a bad joke. Needs further looking into.

On April 10 2015 14:32 jarjarbinks wrote:


It could be. Dr. Pepper is the cure lolz

On April 10 2015 14:34 Ace1312 wrote:


Best way is to keep a close watch on prp and see if other things are even slightly scummy sounding. If a lot of statements seem to be coming off that way then it might be best to lynch.

On April 10 2015 15:07 Breshke wrote:
Rso am I boring or have i not posted enough for you to get a read on me yet

On April 10 2015 15:04 Breshke wrote:
Dwarf is starting to feel like lynchbait

On April 10 2015 15:11 jarjarbinks wrote:


lol we can be scrub sibs if u want

True. My point is probably weak. But you would expect a town to not go crazy on an early vote and a mafia to go crazy on an early vote.

On April 10 2015 15:16 Onegu wrote:



Ugg really hate this post. Like in my experience calling people lynchbait especially when those players are newer for no reason scummy as hell.

Also rsoul could be scum, her points on HtS are non alignment indicative, she hasn't town read me yet and she is currently like the only person on the site I think can read me correctly. And she plus 1'd the post I'm pointing out for no reason also.

On April 10 2015 11:08 rsoultin wrote:


confused maybe?

i see the points against him, but i don't see why that can't come from a new player...it almost falls into the too scummy to be scum category

On April 10 2015 11:14 rsoultin wrote:


that was actually what i was referring to with the almost too scummy to be scum comment?

i mean...yeah maybe he's just so new that he thinks the best strategy for people scumreading him is to tell them not to read his old posts, but i think anyone with a modicum of sense is gonna realize that just makes you look worse lol xP

too early to tell for me

On April 10 2015 15:24 jarjarbinks wrote:


Yup. Call me a hypocrite. And I talked about this before. Does he need to defend himself and make some reads? Definitely. A few things that make him look better.

1. He kept getting more and more defensive and not looking logical
2. He didn't early vote someone (right?) thinking that it isn't a big deal.
3. He didn't read the rules or something, which makes me think he is liable to focus on people scumming him because he doesn't really grasp what he is supposed to be doing.
4. Look how much attention dwarf got.

Granted you could say plot doesn't know what he's doing either (#3) lol

On April 10 2015 15:32 Onegu wrote:
Alright alright. Still just saying seems to scummy to be scum is meh also but I'll drop it for now

Also since this is a newbie game I decided to semi try and not troll as much

On April 10 2015 23:06 Onegu wrote:
For th record I am incredibly pissed off that he called me a fuck tard. It hut my feelings so much!

+ Show Spoiler +

I think breshke is best lynch. His waffle on bloody dwarf looks really bad to me.

##Vote: Breshke

On April 10 2015 23:27 prplhz wrote:
i'd like someone to explain to me why bourneq is town

On April 10 2015 23:36 Onegu wrote:



This also hurts my feelings

On April 10 2015 23:39 Breshke wrote:
Plot can you explain your town read on prplhz when you are around.



Ehh if you say so. I recall ace and tube switching their vote to him and it felt like he was going to get wagoned on hard. I'm not that intrested in defending myself from this because its not really something i can argue against nor is it going to be a reason to lynch me.

I have never understood how it is mafia indicitive to "waffle" on a player that someone is clearly unsure about.

On April 10 2015 23:45 Half the Sky wrote:


I know I didn't before I went to bed. The post that Onegu pointed out does make him look a little better.

Ace I have a null read on. I want to see more from him before I make a conclusion. I read through his posts particularly some of the ones others didn't like. The post where he tried to give a scumhunting lesson, as Ras put it, read to me as logical from a newbie standpoint. Thing is I see him from either alignment ATM.

It jumped out at me also because I made a similar point back in Student IV, my first game here. It seemed "too obvious" to the vets so of course they'd dismiss it.

As for the lurker argument he's qualified his work schedule so let's see what he posts when he is around. That point on itself is NAI. We still have a little more than half of D1 left.

On April 10 2015 06:15 Half the Sky wrote:


I don't think you're horrible (read: scum)....yet

On April 10 2015 08:41 plotspot wrote:
prplhz is 100% town. I can smell it.^^

On April 10 2015 06:15 Half the Sky wrote:


I don't think you're horrible (read: scum)....yet

On April 10 2015 09:35 Half the Sky wrote:


I'm not sure I agree with this. I didn't like his entrance or his opening at all. I need to take a closer look at his filter.

Scumreads so far on Bourneq and prplhz (pending filter recaps) and BD.

Townleans on Soren, Onegu.

On April 10 2015 10:09 Breshke wrote:
The problem with dwarf though is that i could justify the way he has been playing if you consider he has played SC2 mafia (which i assume is more of like an instant messaging type of deal. Wheres LS when you need him). This explains why he hasn't given much reasoning or anything behind anything he has done and doesn't really seem to follow anything up.



I think the bolded is the most damming whereas the random vote can half be explained by him being used to a different type of game. Although i still want to know why he chose prplhz over everyone else.

On April 11 2015 01:22 Tubesock wrote:
Why am I the only one towning Breshke for his waffling on Dwarf? He has like 4 posts about Dwarf considering his actions. He's showing more indepth digging than a lot of you are. What would mafia!breshke gain from this? I'm missing something here. I have a hard time seeing mafia!Breshke waffling like this.

TheBloodyDwarf: What are your reads? Who is your primary lynch target? You have some time to prove your towniness and you do have some support so it shouldn't be too difficult, you have something like 30 hours left. I'll remove my vote on you, but until you show some reads and critical thinking you are still my likely lynch.

##Unvote

On April 11 2015 01:32 Onegu wrote:



Nevermind never played with scum him, maybe was confusing him with someone else maybe phagga.

On April 11 2015 01:48 Tubesock wrote:


Oh, I missed that about Breshke. So, we are 2 of the 13 that think he's town for that haha.

Ace had a giant beautiful post of absolutely fluff and bunnies. I felt nice reading it and then realized he didn't actually say anything but "don't kill me". No reads no nothing. He could have written that without even reading the thread.

I'm confused on your thoughts about HTS? What do you mean by Bloody Centric? and that's good? what?

On April 10 2015 23:40 Stutters695 wrote:


Yep.

Initial thoughts, I don't like Breshke so far. His defense of prpl is completely unnecessary and it is far too early to be sure of that.

His vote on dwarf had no reasoning before he's back to null on him as well.

I haven't checked his meta, but it gives off a first time scum vibe. He's so afraid of revealing something that he shouldn't know, he's being active without saying anything really.


Phone posting, so these take a hot minute to type up.


Phone posting so these take me a while.

On April 11 2015 02:22 Stutters695 wrote:

Thanks,

I don't mind the waffling except how he's doing it. I'm working today so I'm not really going to deal with meta right now, but I'll put it on the back burner. It's too early to tell for sure, but how he's playing reminds me a lot of myself in Basterd Mini. I'll read some previous games when I have time in front of a pc (probably tomorrow) and address it later. Currently, I wouldn't be comfortable listing him as town though.

On April 11 2015 02:32 Bourneq wrote:

I was not calling you scum untill late today, you had a fair reason to bring to attention that I was acting strange at the beginning for mainly just answering to pokes. But my poiny lately is that I have been over why that was the case and you're still going after me like I slayed you family in cold blood or something. I find that odd behaviour if you were town. You were fine in my back untill a few pages back.

On April 11 2015 02:33 prplhz wrote:
i hope jarjar agrees with his sister on something then i'm just going to sheep them

On April 11 2015 02:39 prplhz wrote:

i think host randomized teams so your alignments aren't dependent on each other no

On April 11 2015 02:38 Bourneq wrote:

It could very well be my inexperiance. Im to inexperianced to answer that. What would you concider not be light? I did say my thoughts on peoples votes for example and I would not call that light.

Yes the ROFL looks forced.

On April 11 2015 02:42 prplhz wrote:

i wasn't even asking a question? and certainly not of myself

no idea where you're getting at

On April 11 2015 02:42 Soren333 wrote:

Eh, basing a read on a single post is bad.

On April 11 2015 02:45 prplhz wrote:
you seem townie and skilled enough

On April 11 2015 02:50 prplhz wrote:
what's your problem with me sheeping you and yourr brother?

On April 11 2015 02:40 Bourneq wrote:

From trying to lynch me from the very start of the game.

On April 11 2015 03:25 Half the Sky wrote:


I've played a few games with Onegu now and hosted at least two now with him in it. As either alignment he's not a shining beacon of towniness, and I pretty much have to read him as he does things. I've had mixed results on tone reading him so I'm trying something different.

prp I'm ignoring meta because only one game played with him where he's done nothing and the game I hosted him (only one) he was MLed D1 IIRC and he wasnt particularly memorable. I have not database dove him yet though.

On April 11 2015 03:26 Half the Sky wrote:


rsoultin, just my nickname for her.

On April 11 2015 03:29 Half the Sky wrote:


Right now Dwarf. We're past the nicties part of this game and I don't recall reads from him. Others have given them and we're thirty pages deep at this point.

On April 11 2015 03:30 Half the Sky wrote:
Ras hence my explanation. Don't think I said I had a strong TR on him at all. I need minimum 2 days to figure him out.

On April 11 2015 10:48 Stutters695 wrote:


Was wondering how long it would take someone to notice that. Was really hoping it'd be a newbie to see their reaction, but can't win them all.

Ace: obv policy lynch, nothing more. I'm less confident in seeing an increase in posting from him if we give him time, do he's my fall back if I can't get my main lynch going.

Currently I still want Breshke's head. I'm not sure how to vocalize it exactly, but he just feels off.

I still see plenty of scum mindset behind his actions and skimming his past 4 (2 scum, 2 town) games day 1 hasn't put me at ease. His play so far doesn't match either meta really. As town he has much more focus in his posts. He might change his mind, but if he saw something he didn't like (my post for example) he would challenge it until he's satisfied, not brush it off. There is also a distinct lack of interaction with the people he suspects.

His scum meta does seem to withhold reads until later, but after dying n1 and n2, I can see why he would attempt to change that. He's currently who I want to lynch.

The other two I'm really interested in are prpl and plot, but I haven't had the time to really get into them yet.

Can you rephrase that question about interactions with Onegu? If you mean us playing together, we have, but nothing notable from memory.

On April 11 2015 11:51 Breshke wrote:


At the time plot was half leaning scum for the same reasons ace was scummy because he hadn't really done much. He also made a 100% townread which i asked him to clarify which he ended up doing in this post.



I really dont like this post at all. First paragraph is full of fluff and he is waving off his post saying it was early but if it was so early why say someone is 100% town.

The second paragraph is also full of fluff and I should say i don't think fluffy posts = mafia but he doesn't actually say anything within the fluff. States he thinks dwarf is a victim but doesn't pull any conclusions from it. Also gives a townread on onegu with 0 justification.

I also don't understand how he thinks HTS is referring to him as 100% town as i don't read it this way at all. He also doesn't seem to draw conclusions from this either.

This post feels to me like he is trying to provide content to look good yet doesn't draw any conclusions to avoid making waves something I think is very scummy.

Tube is null thought idk i havn't really read him properly yet.

I also feel more confident about plot now than i do about dwarf so i guess this answers your question.

##Unvote
##Vote plotspot

I also like how stutters constantly tries to get people to interact with him about his scumread of me I think that is fairly townie. I don't like that he has a fallback policy lynch in Ace but he has promised to look into other people so that is also looking promising as well.

On April 11 2015 10:48 Stutters695 wrote:


Was wondering how long it would take someone to notice that. Was really hoping it'd be a newbie to see their reaction, but can't win them all.

[...]

The other two I'm really interested in are prpl and plot, but I haven't had the time to really get into them yet.

[...]

On April 11 2015 13:48 Breshke wrote:
Im here rso

i liked soren because of my discussion with him about prp's opening. Just had a quick look through his filter then and he seemed to go from dwarf to plot which is fine. But then switched to bourne because of prodding from prp which doesnt make sense from a town perspective considering he had him as scummy.

On April 10 2015 15:40 Breshke wrote:


I'm actually still voting for him so i havnt exactly flipped.

The lynchbait thing was because i felt a bunch of people were jumping on the wagon but i was actually wrong theres only 4 and one is sorren and one if me so it is still fairly pure. The other two are tube and ace and I am kinda town lean on tube but expect more from him. Ace's post where he votes didnt impress me much and thats another thing that attributed to me calling it lynchbait.

On April 11 2015 14:19 Breshke wrote:


Nah your wrong. The scumread wasn't that strong still isnt and that mainly has to do with the fact that he hasnt posted like at all since so i find it hard to evalute him. Like i wouldn't endorse lynching him today if he still hasn't posted because i feel like its a cop out for people to not push actual read and such. It would be better if a possible vigi dealt with it.

I understand the logic behind why you thought my scumread would have been strong on him because it made me doubt my read but at the time it was more me getting confused with the votes because of the lack of vote count and in thread voting. I thought there was like 2 more people voting dwarf.

On April 10 2015 23:49 Onegu wrote:



Pics or it didn't happen!




From the game I actually put the most effort into and was told to quit mafia forever for being bad, this is mostly why I troll a lot now and just try to have fun.

On April 11 2015 14:38 Breshke wrote:


I dunno I can never read onegu early although i think the two games ive played with him ive worked him out eventually.

The thing you pointed out doesn't give me bad vibes. I can see town thought process behind telling people you are going to be playing serious this game and making sure people recognized you said this. I also like that he called you out here



Even if i dont agree with the reasons no one has really prodded you this game and think there is easier people for him to ping out if he was scum

On April 10 2015 07:30 plotspot wrote:
Since the rules states I have to vote, and I can't decide, I vote alphabetically. It's still plenty time lift for interaction, I might change my vote anytime, hence I asked whether we can change our vote. I don't see it written on the first page about changing votes. So better vote before I forget to.^^ Btw, I didn't read any mafia threads yet, just the general guide.

On April 11 2015 15:55 prplhz wrote:
lol hts is from uk how can it be a language barrier thing they invented the language pretty much

On April 11 2015 08:07 prplhz wrote:
lzphrpz unordered lynch list: hts jjb bourneq

On April 11 2015 16:24 prplhz wrote:
would you rather i continue to push bourneq for doing things like voting someone, giving an excuse for why they could be town and then saying he isn't even his biggest scum read? because people don't like that so i'm going to try to drop it. now we're going in this direction and it's fine.

On April 11 2015 16:31 prplhz wrote:

jjb missed this too i don't really know why it's so missable

he's seriously saying "i want to lynch ace but he may very well have a valid excuse for everything that bothers me about him. tbd is my biggest scum read though."

On April 11 2015 05:07 Stutters695 wrote:
Bourneq: You listed myself, onegu, rsoultin, prpl, jarjar, ace and Bloody as null/scummy. That's obviously too many people to be scum and we can only lynch one today. Ignore Ace (assume he's dead either way for this question), who do you lynch today and what makes them scum?

Anyone else here?

On April 12 2015 11:28 Stutters695 wrote:

If I'm town, what do I gain from the vote like that? If I'm scum what do I gain?

Assume I'm town for a second(you'll see why d2). Prpl tries to switch the wagon onto me. From a scum perspective: He mislynches me (I get harder to mislynch as the game goes on generally) and leaves him with 1/2 (depending on Dwarf's alignment) easy-ish mislynches at the cost of looking slightly worse for my mislynch.

Do you think that would be a risk he'd take as scum from playing scum with him?

On April 12 2015 13:09 Breshke wrote:
holy shit EBWOP
So imagine if stutters is mafia do you think a partner swaps to him there

On April 13 2015 03:12 Tubesock wrote:
The vote was 6-2 until 12:55 favoring Plotspot. It had Prplhz and I on Stutters695.

at 12:55 TheBloodyDwarf voted Stutters695. That post only had the vote in it. His previous post was at 9:50 talking about how he loves me. For the record I buy the :D vs explanation. Buuuuuttttttt still no scumhunting....

There were people around talking a couple hours prior to EoD. It was not a dead thread.

Possible explanations:

1. lurking about waiting to see how the vote goes. Sees a counterwagon on Stutters and goes for it. Regardless of Stutters alignment I think Dwarf could make this vote. Now that it's 20 some hours after, I see the actual numbers and think that he probably knew what the vote count was and realized that Stutters is safe from being lynched. There were 4 minutes left, when he voted. Not much time to drop that many votes.

Stutters can be town or mafia in this position. It doesn't matter. But TheBloodyDwarf sees a reason to move to him as there was a shenany. And of course I think this is a mindfuckTube game.

2. He could have legitimately realized he needed to vote and placed it. Why did he wait? Why not at 9:50 when he said his only scum read was Stutters695? Why'd he wait till 4 minutes left in the day?


How aware are you guys of the deadline? I mean I will vote somewhat early if I am out and about and can potentially miss the deadline. I get it that if I KNOW I'll be around and don't have any real life things scheduled that placing that vote isn't so important. But I'll be in the thread. I would NEVER have 2 posts in 3 hours prior to deadline if I was there the entire time.

Anyway, I'm going to dive Stutters deeper. I probably shouldn't scum him because he thinks 2 of my top towns are scum.

On April 13 2015 03:27 Holyflare wrote:
I've not read a single thing in this game. Someone tell me some key points.

On April 13 2015 03:36 Tubesock wrote:


I'm missing the bussing thing everyone is so focused on. I'm saying that Dwarf could safely bus Stutters in that situation, or switch to town stutters to gain not killing town cred, or fucking with my mind so I ended up voting with my top scumreads "scum" read.

On April 13 2015 03:57 Tubesock wrote:


Ahhh that's why I'm missing it. People, you can't bus a town...mafia onto Plotspots is NOT bussing. That's called a miss lynch.

Assuming you're talking to me about my speculation, my thoughts don't have anything related to what Stutters alignment is. It actually doesn't matter what his alignment is. It still makes me think Dwarf is even scummier than I did yesterday.

What do you think about Stutters695?

On April 13 2015 04:04 prplhz wrote:
list of people i'm not lynching tomorrow because of things they said today: dwarf

this going through newbies and lynching them for saying weird things is ... dumb. yea i said it.

On April 13 2015 04:11 Tubesock wrote:


I do think that stutters saw the scumclaim and was like, why bother wasting any more effort.

I can't help it I do kinda think that Dwarf is Godfather. While instead of a huge likelyhood of it, now it's fairly a minor possibility. Prp and Bresh's points were solid. It's insanity. But I can't shake he's mafia.

On April 13 2015 04:04 prplhz wrote:
list of people i'm not lynching tomorrow because of things they said today: dwarf

this going through newbies and lynching them for saying weird things is ... dumb. yea i said it.

On April 13 2015 04:16 prplhz wrote:

hmm okay then.

claiming scum and martyring is the same though. and stutters voted plot because plot claimed scum.

even if claiming scum and martyring isn't the same then it's the same for the purpose of the argument i'm making (that voting some for martyring/claiming scum is bad play)

On April 13 2015 04:18 prplhz wrote:

uh no like, d1 and n1 ... did he even say something n1 though? doesn't matter.

On April 13 2015 04:20 prplhz wrote:
what i'm saying is that dwarf is looking townie so far and i'm not going to lynch him tomorrow unless something new happens that radically changes how i feel about him. which i consider highly unlikely.

On April 13 2015 08:48 Breshke wrote:


I am really interested what stutters means by the bolded..

On April 13 2015 08:58 Breshke wrote:


Yeah i guess we wait and see what stutters says first?

I was scum leaning on soren but it mustn't have been that strong because i had to actually go back and look at my own filter to remember why.

Also Rso before when we were talking about people that could have been bussing stutters if he is actually mafia you listed HTS as one i believe? (if this is wrong ignore the rest of this) The reason was she was the least committed to it i actually disagree with that because being around at the time it really felt like HTS wanted me to consider stutters and change my vote which would have brought him dangerously close to being lynched. I don't really remember being swayed by any of the others.

On April 12 2015 05:52 Half the Sky wrote:


I agree with Rasputin that this post is awful. I'll point out what bothers me:

1 First paragraph - again sounds like dissausion, and funny that it comes after some of us forming reads based on his wording.

2 HATE that first sentence in second paragraph.

2nd I don't have any reads, as I think anyone is potentially suspicious and not at the same time.

Like that's an excuse to not make reads. Of course there's more than one way of scumhunting so I move to his next paragraph to see if what he says DOES make sense....

Instead ask what other people think about you. From this thread I know that Half the Sky and Soren think I'm town. Many other people are unsure as to my aligment and a few people lean towards me as scum, but none are 100% sure I am scum.

Using the word "instead" makes me think he's using this as a way to scumhunt, but where are the conclusions?

3 His followup on Soren.

He will probably tell you now that he changed his opinion, due to progressed "interaction". Half the Sky provided some reasoning as to why she doesn't necessarily know that I'm town. But I'm not convinced. Based on the following post she thinks I think Onegu might be scum, although the reason I make this spontaneous post is because he was a disruptive element to the game by not paying attention, it doesn't matter what alignment he was.

I disagree with this on many fronts. Reads SHOULD change if there's new evidence. Don't like it? Dispute it.
And Onegu was disruptive only to you - to me, I knew better, and others probably just ignored it. I know Rasputin said she was uncomforable with him but IIRC that was on different evidence.

I'm just smelling mafia agenda from this. And I don't know how it isn't.

On April 12 2015 05:55 Half the Sky wrote:


prplhz for whatever reason isn't convinced. He had concerns on Stutters (which I sorta agree with, also along with Dwarf who said all he was doing was asking questions) and Soren (whom I still have to look into).

Stutters seemed like a reasonable lynch, one page filter which hasn't done much or driven things forward.

Ace/Shining is a policy lynch.

There are two votes on Stutters. There are 5 minutes left. Who else is around?

On April 12 2015 05:56 Half the Sky wrote:
Breshke - look at Stutters filter. I haven't switched yet. One page. Mostly asking questions. He's stopping short of conclusions.

He also voted plotspot and prplhz thinks that plotspot is martyring.

I don't like either of plotspot or Stutters to be honest. But I can only vote one.

On April 12 2015 05:58 Half the Sky wrote:
Stutters voted plotspot. Would someone bus someone this early in a newbie game?

He's a veteran, but probably not.

##unvote
##vote stutters695

On April 13 2015 09:04 prplhz wrote:

how can you think tube is convinced dwarf is town -_-

On April 13 2015 09:19 Breshke wrote:




I feel like you ened to look at these two earlier posts aswell though because it explains why she made another case on plot. Also that first post is seemingly what kicked prplhz to actually vote for stutters which then also caused tube to to try save plot. I feel like that would be a really strange post going into near deadline with someone that most of the thread thought had basically claimed scum.

I get what you mean about the switch too late thing but im willing to give some benefit of the doubt because there didn't seem to be many people around and the people that were did not seem interested in switching.

On April 12 2015 05:13 prplhz wrote:
it's just like stutters has not exactly been noticable this game. then he comes in here, sees people are looking at plot, says "gonna look at plot and write something" and then he just votes him for claiming scum. seems exceedingly lazy and uninterested. no i don't think that looks natural, it looks like he's thinking "guess i'll vote for the current bandwagon for whatever reason i can find in his latest post".

some people are all "he's martyring, lynch him!" but that's just bad play. dunno if it's how stutters play and i'm not going to check his database entry for any fervent anti-martyrism.

On April 11 2015 23:00 Stutters695 wrote:


Prp has a very distinct scum meta. Off of memory, this reminds me of out but I'm just not going to have time to compare it and the last time I played with him was close to a year ago I think.

Plot I'll type up once I go on a smoke break but I'm at work atm.

On April 12 2015 02:03 Stutters695 wrote:
##vote: plotspot

Generally if you're claiming scum you post a baby seal, but this works too I guess.

On April 13 2015 09:42 Half the Sky wrote:
I've returned. Catching up.

Reading the last few comments there are a few things that need clarified.

1 Vote change happened very close to EoD with not much time to deliberate. I think I voted with 2 minutes left. Not much time to convey "enthusiasm" aside from what went into my vote. I weighed heavily whether I should switch.
2 Back of my mind, there were too many people on plotspot. That had me antsy. The fact that there weren't many people around, before I realised it was a Saturday night, made me wonder if people had afked the vote. I know the pile on happened when I was asleep.

3 This point is for Rasputin.

The 15h point that I made against Stutters was not because it was 15h between posts that he voted. The 15 hours point was used to justify that Stutters was unlikely to have been deliberating his vote on plotspot and that the vote came out of the blue.

prplhz said that his vote came out of the blue and scumread him for that IIRC. I questioned that asking why he was eliminating the possibility that a scumclaim could have made his life easier in the middle of deliberation. Only when I further looked closely at Stutters' filter, did I notice the 15 hour gap. He said he'd look into plot. Then gap. Then boom. "Scumclaim, voted" (paraphrasing)

Are you following my logic?

On April 12 2015 05:52 Half the Sky wrote:


I agree with Rasputin that this post is awful. I'll point out what bothers me:

1 First paragraph - again sounds like dissausion, and funny that it comes after some of us forming reads based on his wording.

2 HATE that first sentence in second paragraph.

2nd I don't have any reads, as I think anyone is potentially suspicious and not at the same time.

Like that's an excuse to not make reads. Of course there's more than one way of scumhunting so I move to his next paragraph to see if what he says DOES make sense....

Instead ask what other people think about you. From this thread I know that Half the Sky and Soren think I'm town. Many other people are unsure as to my aligment and a few people lean towards me as scum, but none are 100% sure I am scum.

Using the word "instead" makes me think he's using this as a way to scumhunt, but where are the conclusions?

3 His followup on Soren.

He will probably tell you now that he changed his opinion, due to progressed "interaction". Half the Sky provided some reasoning as to why she doesn't necessarily know that I'm town. But I'm not convinced. Based on the following post she thinks I think Onegu might be scum, although the reason I make this spontaneous post is because he was a disruptive element to the game by not paying attention, it doesn't matter what alignment he was.

I disagree with this on many fronts. Reads SHOULD change if there's new evidence. Don't like it? Dispute it.
And Onegu was disruptive only to you - to me, I knew better, and others probably just ignored it. I know Rasputin said she was uncomforable with him but IIRC that was on different evidence.

I'm just smelling mafia agenda from this. And I don't know how it isn't.

On April 12 2015 05:56 Half the Sky wrote:
Breshke - look at Stutters filter. I haven't switched yet. One page. Mostly asking questions. He's stopping short of conclusions.

He also voted plotspot and prplhz thinks that plotspot is martyring.

I don't like either of plotspot or Stutters to be honest. But I can only vote one.

On April 12 2015 05:58 Half the Sky wrote:
Stutters voted plotspot. Would someone bus someone this early in a newbie game?

He's a veteran, but probably not.

##unvote
##vote stutters695

On April 13 2015 10:06 Half the Sky wrote:


Not many people around. Bourneq already said he wasn't switching. Neither was Breshke.

On April 13 2015 10:12 prplhz wrote:
man this hts business is super complicated.

On April 13 2015 10:25 prplhz wrote:
okay are you seriously considering me for scum?

On April 13 2015 10:26 prplhz wrote:
also bourneq is missing in that list.

On April 13 2015 10:33 Half the Sky wrote:




Which means, based on your previous quote I should be town right? I put my thought process out there, and I didn't care about looking good. If I'd wanted to look good, I would have stayed on plotspot with all the rest of the votes on him, but I still kept considering all possibilities.

Also for Rasputin, this isn't the first time I've deliberated things like this between two people and voted town. I know I was third party in JOAT, but this follows the same premise. Deliberated like crazy, looked through filters between the two vote candidates (Sandroba and SL in that case) and ultimately voted on town. Just saying.

On April 13 2015 10:43 Half the Sky wrote:


First, that long post, I didn't conclude plotspot was town. I said I didn't understand how it wasn't a mafia agenda. I concluded he was mafia.

After the fact, yes, but again, supports the fact I'm thinking hard about both candidates. The issue I had with plot concerned his wording which required more explanation.

The arguments on Stutters were quite the opposite in some regards, lack of content, and points brought up by others. The questions coming to lack of a conclusion on certain players and Stutters's vote on plotspot, that last element which made me think twice about everything. If there was more time I'd have tried pushing the issue. I did try to push Breshke, so the point about me doing nothing (at prplhz) doesn't really hold either.

On April 13 2015 10:59 Half the Sky wrote:


Uh, I know I'm not going insane here, but that's what I was responding to >_<

On April 13 2015 10:28 Half the Sky wrote:
Taking a closer look at the votes.



I'm trying to consider all worlds here. Do note that I have not taken a good look at either of Shining or JJB's filters yet.

Possible scum votes:
1 Ace/Shining - an isolated vote, general rule of thumb
2 Likely two votes on the plotspot wagon
3 Likely one vote on the Stutters wagon

For #2 I'm thinking one or both votes had to have come late in the game when people thought plotspot was likely to be lynched. This reinforces the possibility of Stutters being a guilty party or Bourneq. I need to take a closer look at their timestamps and what they were saying/thinking at the time they voted. Also didn't see much reaction from Bourneq at all post-lynch. The only other person I will admit I have not taken a closer look at is JJB, largely because I haven't been able to interact with him all game.

For #3 I'm thinking back to my Godfather game as to who in this group wants to look good counterwagoning if there was any such player. prplhz had the martyring argument, and Tube had his reasoning that he seemed to genuinely believe in.

If I had to pick a scum in this wagon, I'd say Dwarf. When I see this:



Particularly the timestamp he realised it, compared to prplhz, it makes him all the more likely to be the scum. Furthermore, whilst he might be newb, he could very be newb scum, which is what I'm starting to feel after looking through his filter. A lot of emphasis on how he's used to SC2 mafia play. At least that's the impression I'm getting.

On April 13 2015 11:04 Half the Sky wrote:


The post came after but that still doesn't discount that I went back to his post and reconsidered. That should have been quite clear actually when I said "oh shit, now I see what prplhz and dwarf said"

The last part of that defence was aimed at prplhz who said this:

On April 13 2015 11:15 Half the Sky wrote:


Eh, I'm not really making anything up. If you are mafia deliberately choosing not to understand it, it wouldn't surprise me if you were but if you're town not getting what I'm trying to say, it wouldn't surprise me either. Not the first time this has happened.

On April 13 2015 13:29 jarjarbinks wrote:


If I got Rso's argument right, she thinks that HTS vote switch is strange due primarily to the fact that HTS thought both targets were bad and there was no chance stutters was dying at EOD, which HTS was there long enough to understand.

IF SO This would be the only quote that would even make you think that HTS thought plotspot was town. But I would argue that when HTS went to post this, she already knew she was going to vote stutters. It might be a formatting thing, but most people post their votes after everything else they say in the post.

Given all that, I can only see her doing this vote for three reasons:

1. She is scum trying to look better later on.
2. She is scum trying to bus stutters later just in case people keep scumming him.
3. She is town, and wants to feel good about not mislynching plot.

Also a lot of people haven't been reading her that much before N1. IF she does flip scum, this could give some merit to my point #3 earlier, that scum didn't feel threatened enough to kill someone in game.

On April 13 2015 12:21 Stutters695 wrote:

Don't really have time to play right now, but what games and what did you see that changed your mind?

I'm off all day tomorrow, so I'll be here then.

On April 13 2015 13:33 jarjarbinks wrote:


lolz so angry! and btw I had thoughts in there I swear! They were real things lol

On April 12 2015 01:28 jarjarbinks wrote:


....using logic....lol

soooo if prp, bresh and me are her top town reads....that means....

MY MANFEELINGS!

On April 13 2015 07:54 jarjarbinks wrote:
Wow....hope to actually play with you next time HF.

Reasons why HF was killed that I can think of

1. HF can read another vet well or is good at this game? I have no experience with the guy
2. Scum doesn't want to reveal anything
3. Scum is not worried about anyone so far

#2 is probably most likely...if anyone think #3 is very possible we might need to check our highly townread people in the game (bresh? tube?) or doublecheck at the highly scumread right now (dwarf? stutters?)

On April 13 2015 13:40 jarjarbinks wrote:
lolz

ya I was scumreading her in that post...lol

i'm confused as to how HTS missed the rationale behind tube's change as well. I mean it wasn't a solid case for a change, but it was clearly there in his filter around his vote. He shows more rationale for his change than HTS did for hers.

Altho I definite missed things on pretty much everything I said last night...lol

On April 13 2015 13:51 jarjarbinks wrote:


I started it, im super behind on my reads sheet so I tried to go with whoever it appeared were each persons top 3 scum. It has a lot of issues with is but in general there were some people who weren't being scummed much and some people who were being towned a ton.

People who weren't on top town or top scum the most:

Onegu
HTS
JJB
Tube

People who were top 3 town most:

Prp
Tube
Bresh
JJB

Granted, this analysis has flaws. And note I AM ON BOTH, so if anything it I'm showing that I am not altering the analysis AT ALL. I think if I had my reads stuff updated this would be better, and there was a few people that it was hard to tell who their top scum/town were while others it was easier to ascertain.

On April 13 2015 14:06 Breshke wrote:
hey sorry for dissapearing had to go out and phone wouldn't connect to the internet.

Ive only speedread the last pages but i still disagree with you on HTS . First of all people have been saying that HTS would swap to stuters there to make herself look better. Obviously this isn't true because noone is saying she looks good because of it. Also she was one of the eladers on the plot lynch and in most of my games the people leading the D1 lynches look good no matter the flip. I think as scum HTS would be way more cautious about swapping her vote there.

I also didn't really understand the bit about you saying she called plot town? Idk that isn't how i remember it i thought she thought they were both scum but then voted stutters because she didn't think stutters would bus so using pre flip association decided stutters would be better. If im wrong tell me.

Also this is ahrd to explain but once again when i woke up came into the thread it really only seemed HTS was trying to get me to look at stutters and change my vote i didn't really get that feeling from anyone else. It may read differently but thats how it was.

Also rso how does it make you feel that people are interacting with you yet dont really seem to read you. It is quite odd.

On April 13 2015 14:13 Breshke wrote:


I also don't understand how she looks good for voting a town in a town v town vote thingo.

On April 13 2015 14:15 jarjarbinks wrote:


I was saying that if mafia could have been comfortable enough in the game to not need to lynch anyone specifically.

Those lists show the people that are least noticed or most townread, hence "not being threatened" before the NK

On April 13 2015 14:14 rsoultin wrote:


for not mislynching plot...pretty sure i already clarified that too breshke -_-

On April 12 2015 05:56 Half the Sky wrote:
Breshke - look at Stutters filter. I haven't switched yet. One page. Mostly asking questions. He's stopping short of conclusions.

He also voted plotspot and prplhz thinks that plotspot is martyring.

I don't like either of plotspot or Stutters to be honest. But I can only vote one.

On April 13 2015 14:23 Breshke wrote:


This is the bit i have a problem with. Did she decide that plot was town? I was under the belief she thought both were scum but thought stutters had more chance of flipping scum because she didnt think he would bus a partner in plot. Basically i thought she was making a pre flip association.

On April 13 2015 14:25 Breshke wrote:
Also i kind of want to vote stutters until he explains why we would all understand he was town on D2 because there's no point pretending he didn't say that.

On April 13 2015 14:21 Breshke wrote:


Not gonna lie i thought you were going to bed so i tried to get something out quickly so you'd stay around.

I feel saying her uselessly changing her vote is almost unfair though. You could say not changing her vote would have been useless aswell because the masses had either decided to stay on plot or were not around. I just dont think that you can look at it as she changed her vote to distance herself from that list when she was stills cumreading plot and was one of his original pushers. I also think if she was so worried about being on that list that she tries to distance from it ealier since that would look better and she wouldn't make a case on plot right before switching. Also does this mean you think a majority of the scum were on the plot wagon?

Not implying anything really because it could go either way (scum ignoring you because they dont think your an easy misslynch or scum ignoring u cos your scum). I just realize that the main way i read you is how you interact with vets and push your reads and how emotional or whatever you get so obviously you can understand why im having a hard time of it now.

On April 12 2015 04:36 Half the Sky wrote:


Okay, let me phrase it differently. Take a look at the quote in totality, it's extremely awkwardly worded.



1 I point him out on the word "acceptable"
2 His quoted part of the sentence (which I've bolded) he is saying others are finding it acceptable but he's not so sure (not nailingly sure for me)
3 In his prior post, he said that Dwarf was a victim, but then by saying "he has to justify himself.....that's also because he hasn't posted a lot, right" he's already answered his own concern in #2 "not nailingly sure for me."



Of course when I go back here at how he said these things originally and esp how his wording has "evolved" on Dwarf, and I feel like he's trying to get around this read/conclusion in a wishy washy way. It's quite scumlike behaviour to me.

On April 13 2015 23:29 Trfel wrote:
Hello.

I haven't read any of the game yet, just enough to know that there was a mislynch on Day 1 and then Holyflare was night killed.

Do I need to start doing things immediately, or can I take the time to read the thread (or at least part of it)?

On April 13 2015 23:48 Half the Sky wrote:
Welcome Trfel. Town are on track for an ML D2.

I'm taking the approach of evaluating each of the main wagons D1 with the working theory there are 2 scum on the plot wagon and one on the Stutters counter wagon.

I evaluated the Stutters counterwagon last night with Tube and possibly Dwarf being suspect.

I have Rasputin/others wanting to lynch me for faulty logic (namely my changing votes on Stutters 2m before EoD) without considering the possibly that 1) I can't consider all possibility simultaneously and 2) it being completely unreasonable to expect a detailed case with the scant amount of time left. I've explained it enough, so I'm filter diving the people on the plot wagon atm.

On April 14 2015 00:03 Half the Sky wrote:
Second issue Trfel is that town are also dealing with a few scummy lurkers namely Stutters, dwarf and Bourneq.

On April 14 2015 00:11 Half the Sky wrote:
Ras to be honest I have a much bigger problem with the way Tube is pushing me than I have with you.

Trfel, vote count analysis is pretty common in these games. You should recall Damdred doing this in Guardians.

On April 14 2015 00:36 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:

Why you are sad
Im happy