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Trfel
7015 Posts
I'm fine with The Shining being suspicious of me. It's the reasoning for it that is strange. I'm fine with The Shining pushing zlefin. But the reasons and strange progression of the push seem off. Side note, I might actually be back right before the deadline. No guarantees, but I will do my best. Hopefully we won't be needing any last second vote switches, though. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On February 17 2015 01:07 rsoultin wrote: Can you outline what exactly is strange? I tried to do that already? Look at the quotes in the first and third spoilers I provided. I have no clue what read The Shining is giving me, and I don't understand the reasoning behind it, either. If you can explain it to me, then I will retract the point. The Shining described the push as a slight push, but also voted with it. This makes no sense. In addition, the case on zlefin seems to be more making something out of nothing than just a case that I disagree with. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On February 17 2015 01:18 rsoultin wrote: Eh, JJB kept ninjaing Shining, so Shining probably hadn't seen that he'd retracted the scumread already. The defense was still a bit over-the-top maybe? Yes, I know, I know, pot calling the kettle black lol xP I get growly when people use what I perceive to be false reasons to scumread me. I don't know, Truffle. Could be, but it's not screaming scum at me at the moment. Is he going to be your vote? Of course The Shining didn't know that jarjarbinks had retracted the comment. Even if he hadn't, the post was definitely more defensive than necessary. I don't yet know who I will end up voting for. I suppose Hier and The Shining probably seem like the best options at the moment? That said, I would like to hear more opinions on The Shining if possible, and I would like to hear more from The Shining and Hier (well, I'd like to hear more from everyone, but particularly those two...). | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
Hier opened up the game by posting his Bridges method. By advocating something with direct impact on all players, people naturally responded, and it turned out that the responses were mostly negative. It seems that this immediately frustrated Hier a bit, judging by the tone of his first post after that. (link if you want it) From there, Hier is bombarded with questions. This seems to frustrate him more, and he doesn't answer all of them. One answer that he does provide is that he has no reads, which obviously leads to a whole new wave of questions. Hier posts a scumread on rsoultin. (link if you want it) This read actually isn't all that bad. While rsoultin and I have already discussed why the points addressed here make perfect sense, from Hier's perspective, it doesn't make sense. It is normally expected that someone explains their pushes, not asks everyone else for their opinions. Regardless of Hier's alignment, he is clearly frustrated. This leads to his posts being more sarcastic and less responsive, leading to people scumreading him even more (I don't need to post links to posts where Hier is clearly frustrated, it is too obvious). This also would discourage Hier from providing reads. That's why I can see Hier's play coming from a townie. His play hasn't been good, but it isn't unreasonable. That said, if he doesn't do anything to change his play in the near future, he could very well be the best lynch for the day (at least, as I see it). Thoughts? | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On February 17 2015 01:38 rsoultin wrote: Where you at on Tere, Truffle? I'm liking her, honestly lol ^^ Is Tere female? I don't think that it was specified? It would be much more convenient to have this answered, please. As for Tere's alignment, I don't know. I really don't know. This is why I didn't want Tere to answer your question. In addition to pushing (what I believe are) the rules, or at least their intentions, it provides bias that shouldn't be there for the sake of fairness. (side note, it could also be perceived as bluehunting, though I think that's a silly notion) Just posting this for reference, in case anyone else is wondering about Tere's previous mafia experience. Tere seems to have a reasonable grasp of the game, and what he/she is saying makes sense, but I need to look more closely to separate the logic from its implications on Tere's alignment. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On February 17 2015 01:44 zlefin wrote: I concur with your analysis on Hier trfel. Zlefin, who do you want to lynch now? (and yes, I read your previous list, if it is the same, then that is fine... unless of course you decide to lynch me, in which case I'll be pretty annoyed) | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On February 17 2015 01:44 Trfel wrote: Is Tere female? I don't think that it was specified? It would be much more convenient to have this answered, please. As for Tere's alignment, I don't know. I really don't know. This is why I didn't want Tere to answer your question. In addition to pushing (what I believe are) the rules, or at least their intentions, it provides bias that shouldn't be there for the sake of fairness. (side note, it could also be perceived as bluehunting, though I think that's a silly notion) Just posting this for reference, in case anyone else is wondering about Tere's previous mafia experience. Tere seems to have a reasonable grasp of the game, and what he/she is saying makes sense, but I need to look more closely to separate the logic from its implications on Tere's alignment. To elaborate, my initial concern is that Tere's reads are more based on mafia ability than alignment indicative information. It is really easy to say why someone is wrong and call them mafia, or say that someone makes sense and call them town. But that isn't scumunting. I noticed that Tere's lynch list seems to definitely put those who have played more games higher on the list. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On February 17 2015 01:51 rsoultin wrote: For the record, I'm dropping the point in your first paragraph because I don't believe it serves any further purpose, not because I agree with you.Lol, truffle, maybe I'm missing a rule somewhere, but evaluating a player without considering the player they replaced seems foolish and not against the rules xP Interesting to know she's a bit more experienced, though (can kind of get that from how she's approaching the game, anyway). Mostly my liking her was based on how she's approached her reads. I'm asking you cause I know that a large portion of it is just I like her tone lol >< Me and my tonereads. Would you mind taking another look at Tere and start with the assumption that Tere is a reasonably experienced and capable mafia player? I will do the same. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On February 17 2015 01:52 Tere wrote: I'm not sure I understand this response that much. Town players have coaches too, and by the same logic, a town coach would have said the same thing? And if Hier's play hasn't seemed scum-motivated, why are you voting him?What I keep coming back to is that surely a scum coach and a scum QT would have persuaded Hier to drop the Bridges idea altogether, and / or nipped it in the bud if he posted it without consultation. Hier isn't being town helpful at the moment, but stubbornly sticking your neck out like Hier has isn't that helpful for a scum wincon.. I could be persuaded to another wagon, for sure. Just not sure I am seeing an obvious one. zlefin's filter also doesn't look appealing to me, but if this is their very first game that's equally a possibility for that. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
If Hier really is mafia, I would expect to see some sort of counter push (unless it actually is a The Shining and Hier scumteam). This makes me even more hesitant to lynch Hier. It just really feels like a typical newbie game Day 1 mislynch. Tere, I don't know at the moment. And rsoultin, I'm really hesitant to lynch someone who is making sense when they have just replaced into the game. That seems silly. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On February 17 2015 01:52 Tere wrote: What I keep coming back to is that surely a scum coach and a scum QT would have persuaded Hier to drop the Bridges idea altogether, and / or nipped it in the bud if he posted it without consultation. Hier isn't being town helpful at the moment, but stubbornly sticking your neck out like Hier has isn't that helpful for a scum wincon.. I could be persuaded to another wagon, for sure. Just not sure I am seeing an obvious one. zlefin's filter also doesn't look appealing to me, but if this is their very first game that's equally a possibility for that. On February 17 2015 02:13 Tere wrote: I'm almost wondering if this is a scumslip. Why would a town player, particularly one who is new to TL Mafia (thus, probably unfamiliar with both coaching and scum QT's, though I have no clue what the other mafia sites play like so this could be wrong), think of the possibility of a player receiving help from a scum coach or a scum QT and only upon suggestion think of help from a town coach?You do have a point that town coaching should have picked up on that, too, though Trfel. Scum and town can be stubborn though *shrug* | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
I will be back later today, though again, I will be gone for a few hours leading up to the lynch deadline and possibly the deadline itself. I suppose I will throw my vote on Hier for now, though if someone else has a lynch that they think is better, I would really appreciate that. And I would still like thoughts from The Shining and Hier, in particular. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On February 17 2015 02:26 rsoultin wrote: I'm not going to afk vote. Please.Meh -_- Truffle Why you're fighting this Hier lynch so much, yet voting for him anyway and setting up for an AFK vote...it is not giving me the warm town fuzzies. I take full responsibility for my vote. I'm just letting you know that you may not have my support for a vote switch late in the day. I'm showing resistance for the Hier lynch for several reasons. The first being that there isn't many other people fighting it, and the lynch isn't as solid as I would like. The second is that if people have other ideas, I would really, really, like to hear them, and not have the lynch sealed up. The third is that if Hier does come back, if my "frustrated town" guess is correct, having some support would make him MUCH more likely to try and defend himself. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On February 17 2015 02:30 Tere wrote: Yes, that is a distinct possibility. I suppose it's also possible that Hier quit and told his partner to bus.Me neither. Lack of alternate wagon push = inexperienced scum partner? I know it's ridiculous, and I can't explain it, but Tere still seems suspicious to me. Her logic is fine, her reads are fine, her tone is comfortable and relaxed, but everything else seems really off. Just, please, keep an eye out... | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On February 17 2015 02:31 Tere wrote: Trfel, why aren't you pushing for the Shining lynch, you built up a case on him? That wasn't so much a case, as a collection of thoughts. If it was a case, believe me that I would be pushing it, and you would know. Rsoultin, I don't see any reasonably appealing counterwagons to someone who isn't really defending himself. And I really do need to leave. Stop being so distracting. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
I can't explain at all why Tere seems strange to me. It's completely irrational and illogical. I tried to make that clear. Thus, my request isn't that people lynch Tere, or that people scumread Tere, or even that people refrain from townreading Tere. My request is just to keep in mind that Tere could be mafia, and a very dangerous one, at that. Of course, like all paranoia, don't let it have a detrimental affect on the game, that is the point where paranoia is counterproductive. I would like to know why Hier is scumreading Tere, though. As for me making a counterwagon, I don't see anything that is better than lynching Hier at the moment. So while I have doubts about a Hier lynch, it is the best that I see right now. I'll check again to see if I missed anyone's questions to me. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On February 17 2015 05:18 Tere wrote: Trfel, since I think you are probably town and having a paranoia moment, how can I reach out to you and help with this? You could get killed on night 1 so I don't have to worry about it? In all seriousness, I am (or at least I like to think I am) a better player than to let it have a significant affect on my play. And I am typically suspicious when the general crowd does something quickly (in this case, townreading you). So, don't worry about me, I can take care of myself. Rsoultin, I don't really think it is necessary to say that you are more experienced than Hier. Someone can make amazing arguments in their first game ever, or horrible arguments in their hundredth game. Also, while I don't have trouble figuring out where you stand from your posts, I suppose it is possible that someone might. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On February 17 2015 05:26 rsoultin wrote: Read his case, Trfel. It was in response to his disclaimer xP The statement had nothing to do with who was or wasn't right. In fact, please read his entire case closely, since you haven't yet. I have in fact read it. He's stated that you could just be an inexperienced player at least once before. While I find this notion humorous, I still don't think that you needed to emphasize that you are more experienced than he is. Whatever, I guess it shouldn't be a big deal, and I shouldn't fuss over it. | ||
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