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You know what ExO I seen mafia do that kind of behavior in another game going where they parked their votes on a random person at least the game I shadowing in atm. I think this might be our best chance of hitting scum if we get Celestial we might have a easier time finding his teammates if he was scum by looking at his interactions with other players and how they interacted with him. Ignore Shining for today I think Celestial is our best lynch for today.
Also ExO I did that same kind of big reads post on Carol and Metal I recalled from my last 2 games as town.
##Vote: -Celestial-
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I didn't think Trfel was townreading The Shining or LightningStrike until about 3 times of rereading his filter. Did you guys think that he was not scumming them?
Is my thinking bad to believe that we could not have had 2 mafia on 3 wagons on Day 1? It's possible sure, but really? I get the argument that if BOTH LS and Shining are mafia that Trfel is a good NK. If none or one of them are mafia, I have a really hard time they wouldn't kill Rsoultin, Half The Sky, or ExO_.
Can more people talk to me about this? If you can't tell, I'm pretty dense and stubborn. I need more than one person to say this is a crackpot idea.
-Celestial- - You mentioned you had no idea how the wagon started and got momentum. I haven't seen you pursue that just yet. I probably missed it, can you let me know what you've learned?
Silverarte (Also LightningStrike) - Can you elaborate again on why you originally joined the WarWaffle lynch?
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On January 09 2015 02:11 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2015 23:07 -Celestial- wrote:On January 08 2015 14:27 ExO_ wrote:
Then there's Celestial. I think I'm starting to scum read him as well. I didn't like that he just parked his vote on jarjar. I also don't like how he seems to be going whichever way the wind blows. He's easily swayed with whoever is posting at the time. For example he hopped right on the LS train with me, then when I was gone for a while he backed off it, only to start agreeing with me more when I got back in the thread. Another example is he did a bit of an OMGUS on rsoultin after day 1, but immediately said he was willing to give he the benefit of the doubt. That's scum behavior in my mind. Scum read. If you actually check my posts you'd see I was already calling LS out with my original set of reads BEFORE you posted something to really set me off on that path; so no, it wasn't just you. You are lying and I can prove it.Show nested quote +On January 06 2015 01:32 -Celestial- wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
LightningStrike just posted fluff and comments on other people's posts so far. Not really sure what to make of that honestly....
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...Edit: LS posted as I was writing this. Last post was pretty good in my opinion, some credit there. Still don't want to make a call on him though. Neutral for now.
Before my post, this is the only mention you made to lightning strike. And even though you say he posts fluff, in that same post you go on to say his last post was good and he gets some credit. The next time you mention LS, is quoting and agreeing with me.
Except you just explicitly quoted me expressing doubt and highlighting him by saying I wasn't sure what to make of him. He posted AFTER I posted leading to my later comment about how I'd liked his post which put me off his scent. But that does NOT wipe out the fact I was originally dubious of his posting.
You're misrepresenting me AGAIN here. Point out the lie. I mean really...
Show nested quote +On January 08 2015 23:07 -Celestial- wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Then I filter-dived for my second set of reads to confirm stuff before voting him; which was a very long time after you posted. But when LS demonstrated that he's played exactly this way before that set some doubt there, so getting off him was absolutely nothing to do with you. And note that I didn't switch back suspicions to LS because of you. Again, check my posts. I questioned you for your opinion on LS and then when LS decided to throw out a vague, apparently panicky, claim THAT is what made me suspicious of him again.
Oh really? Show nested quote +On January 07 2015 01:43 -Celestial- wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Ok I've taken the time myself to read over the evidence that LS presented and...actually its pretty convincing. Although I think meta reads, especially based on just one game, can easily be manipulated he IS playing this very similar to the way he has in the past and it IS from three separate games so...yeah well done there.
I can't in good faith vote LS anymore. His playstyle is just too consistent between townie games there and it has severely shaken my confidence on it. I don't really know playstyles very well of course but those links were fairly convincing. Of course LS could be deliberately selecting evidence but it doesn't feel like that, it feels more like a genuine attempt at convincing. Not a D1 lynch for me anymore.
At this point in time I had been gone from the thread for a while. And thus the discussion moved away from LS for a while. As does your vote, and your vocal suspicions. Next comes: Show nested quote +On January 07 2015 04:50 -Celestial- wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
@ExO_: What are your thoughts on LS (and others) pointing out he's played exactly the same way when he's been town on several previous occasions? I've been somewhat persuaded by that enough to conclude that for now I don't think he's the best D1 lynch. I mean I'm still not won over to make him town, but ideally we're looking for a D1 mafia lynch and I don't think he's the one to guarantee it
. You finally go back on to LS with: Show nested quote +On January 07 2015 05:36 -Celestial- wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Had dinner. Going off to do some other things now but before I do I have to say that claiming like that brings my sights right back onto you, LS. Nobody actually asked for a claim off you and its not like you were under a huge amount of pressure. ExO was the only one really on you and you'd convinced me to give you the benefit of the doubt for a while with your past citations.
But a softclaim like that just a few hours before the deadline when nobody is actually pushing you makes it look as if you're panicking honestly. And that makes me incredibly suspicious once more . Coincidentally guess what I posted just 6 posts and 12 minutes before the above quoted post:: Show nested quote +On January 07 2015 05:24 ExO_ wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I'll admit he had more initial scum reads at first. But then, there's this his first big "read" post: On November 28 2014 12:56 LightningStrike wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Okay since now that my cousin and his wife and son have left I can finally give you guys my current reads for the time being.
Breshke: Town since he displaying the same kind of approach for today as he did in my last game when he was town.
Batsnacks: Null leaning town since he is acting close to the same way he did last game with me when he was a doctor but he been dodging questions from Oatsmaster and Half the Sky.
Damndred: Null leaning town since he was one of the major pushers for the lynching of DSIM without much of a good reason and been defending Batsnacks actions but at the same time he been giving losts of questions although DSIM didn't respond well to the questions.
Half the Sky: Town since he been giving good reasonings for his reads throughout the game although I don't like his case for Batsnacks being scum based on my own experience playing with Batsnacks in my last game.
sicklucker: Town because his posting style had pretty much stayed the same from the last game I played with him although he did looked very scummy in that game but he was just a Vanilla town and since our power roles had been lynched/killed I having a safe bet that sicklucker is town.
meatpudding: Null leaning town he had some decent questions after being gone for a while and now he claiming to have no power at his house it could be a scum move because one of the scums in my last game tried to pull that move but failed so perhaps meatpudding could scum.
alakaslam: null leaning scum since he not posted much of his reads but he also admitted to notread much of the thread during the time of us lynching DSIM but I need to see more posts of his though since he said he had to go earlier in the thread to confirm my suspicions.
Oatsmasters: Town since he been asking lots of questions to everyone and been trying to lead the discussion when he can which isn't a trait a scum member would do.
kushm4sta: Null leaning scum since he not been contributing a lot like his last scum game which was my last although he did give a couple questions to people he also didn't post much so I need to wait for him to post more so I can get a better read on him
rsoultin: Null leaning town since he trying to ask some questions and responding to questions he been asked by others although he did convence me to lynch DSIM that is haunting me because of my last game experience :|
Look Familiar? HTS and I have a discussion about LS, and then you went back on him.
So you're just going to straight up ignore this?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/474146-newbie-mini-mafia-lx?page=21#412
LS straight up claimed VT with zero pressure on him. AFTER my last reply to you, which influenced me to doubt him again. So once again you are completely misrepresenting the situation.
So at the very least, you are lying about suspecting LS before I posted. You pushed suspicion onto the WW train while carefully parking your vote on jarjar. You have been careful this game and generally agreeable. But if there's one thing I believe:
Liars should be lynched
People make mistakes. But I believe your post is intentionally misleading, not accidental.
##Vote: Celestial
I've just demonstrated I was dubious of LS on my initial impressions which was then improved by his later post (notice that it was an EDIT which brought that back), knocked back again by what you posted, redeemed by him demonstrating similar play in later games and then brought down somewhat again by his panicky claim. THIS is the factual story rather than the narrative you're making up and is what I was pointing out in my earlier reply.
I was never happy with WW's posting but it was not enough to lynch but nor was it enough to encourage people not to lynch, which I've already explained multiple times to the point I'm getting tired of pointing it out. Its like banging my head against a goddamn wall. If I've been "generally agreeable" then I wouldn't be repeatedly sticking my neck out by being ever suspicious of the motives of rsoultin considering virtually everyone else has been apparently townreading her to date. Honestly, this is absurd.
You are intentionally and very deliberately misrepresenting everything I've said so far and flat out making up a timeline of events to support your story. Frankly I question your motivations here. I had you down for town but now you're making a hell of an effort to twist the order of events to suit yourself.
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EBWOP: On reflection what you're actually doing is removing all context from events in order to form your story. Which is a nice way to fabricate something I suppose.
So I guess my question to you is...why are you removing context and anyone else's input from the flow of events?
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On January 09 2015 03:51 Tubesock wrote:
I didn't think Trfel was townreading The Shining or LightningStrike until about 3 times of rereading his filter. Did you guys think that he was not scumming them?
Is my thinking bad to believe that we could not have had 2 mafia on 3 wagons on Day 1? It's possible sure, but really? I get the argument that if BOTH LS and Shining are mafia that Trfel is a good NK. If none or one of them are mafia, I have a really hard time they wouldn't kill Rsoultin, Half The Sky, or ExO_.
Can more people talk to me about this? If you can't tell, I'm pretty dense and stubborn. I need more than one person to say this is a crackpot idea.
-Celestial- - You mentioned you had no idea how the wagon started and got momentum. I haven't seen you pursue that just yet. I probably missed it, can you let me know what you've learned?
Silverarte (Also LightningStrike) - Can you elaborate again on why you originally joined the WarWaffle lynch?
I joined the WarWaffle lynch because I was a little bit drained emotionally from my Mom being extremely sick and was town reading rsoultin and sheeped her and the fact he didn't look good with his 3 or so posts before his soft claim that why I originally on the train and I was devastated by that mislynch.
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On January 09 2015 04:05 -Celestial- wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2015 02:11 ExO_ wrote:On January 08 2015 23:07 -Celestial- wrote:On January 08 2015 14:27 ExO_ wrote:
Then there's Celestial. I think I'm starting to scum read him as well. I didn't like that he just parked his vote on jarjar. I also don't like how he seems to be going whichever way the wind blows. He's easily swayed with whoever is posting at the time. For example he hopped right on the LS train with me, then when I was gone for a while he backed off it, only to start agreeing with me more when I got back in the thread. Another example is he did a bit of an OMGUS on rsoultin after day 1, but immediately said he was willing to give he the benefit of the doubt. That's scum behavior in my mind. Scum read. If you actually check my posts you'd see I was already calling LS out with my original set of reads BEFORE you posted something to really set me off on that path; so no, it wasn't just you. You are lying and I can prove it.On January 06 2015 01:32 -Celestial- wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
LightningStrike just posted fluff and comments on other people's posts so far. Not really sure what to make of that honestly....
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...Edit: LS posted as I was writing this. Last post was pretty good in my opinion, some credit there. Still don't want to make a call on him though. Neutral for now.
Before my post, this is the only mention you made to lightning strike. And even though you say he posts fluff, in that same post you go on to say his last post was good and he gets some credit. The next time you mention LS, is quoting and agreeing with me. Except you just explicitly quoted me expressing doubt and highlighting him by saying I wasn't sure what to make of him. He posted AFTER I posted leading to my later comment about how I'd liked his post which put me off his scent. But that does NOT wipe out the fact I was originally dubious of his posting. You're misrepresenting me AGAIN here. Point out the lie. I mean really... Show nested quote +On January 08 2015 23:07 -Celestial- wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Then I filter-dived for my second set of reads to confirm stuff before voting him; which was a very long time after you posted. But when LS demonstrated that he's played exactly this way before that set some doubt there, so getting off him was absolutely nothing to do with you. And note that I didn't switch back suspicions to LS because of you. Again, check my posts. I questioned you for your opinion on LS and then when LS decided to throw out a vague, apparently panicky, claim THAT is what made me suspicious of him again.
Oh really? On January 07 2015 01:43 -Celestial- wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Ok I've taken the time myself to read over the evidence that LS presented and...actually its pretty convincing. Although I think meta reads, especially based on just one game, can easily be manipulated he IS playing this very similar to the way he has in the past and it IS from three separate games so...yeah well done there.
I can't in good faith vote LS anymore. His playstyle is just too consistent between townie games there and it has severely shaken my confidence on it. I don't really know playstyles very well of course but those links were fairly convincing. Of course LS could be deliberately selecting evidence but it doesn't feel like that, it feels more like a genuine attempt at convincing. Not a D1 lynch for me anymore.
At this point in time I had been gone from the thread for a while. And thus the discussion moved away from LS for a while. As does your vote, and your vocal suspicions. Next comes: On January 07 2015 04:50 -Celestial- wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
@ExO_: What are your thoughts on LS (and others) pointing out he's played exactly the same way when he's been town on several previous occasions? I've been somewhat persuaded by that enough to conclude that for now I don't think he's the best D1 lynch. I mean I'm still not won over to make him town, but ideally we're looking for a D1 mafia lynch and I don't think he's the one to guarantee it
. You finally go back on to LS with: On January 07 2015 05:36 -Celestial- wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Had dinner. Going off to do some other things now but before I do I have to say that claiming like that brings my sights right back onto you, LS. Nobody actually asked for a claim off you and its not like you were under a huge amount of pressure. ExO was the only one really on you and you'd convinced me to give you the benefit of the doubt for a while with your past citations.
But a softclaim like that just a few hours before the deadline when nobody is actually pushing you makes it look as if you're panicking honestly. And that makes me incredibly suspicious once more . Coincidentally guess what I posted just 6 posts and 12 minutes before the above quoted post:: On January 07 2015 05:24 ExO_ wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I'll admit he had more initial scum reads at first. But then, there's this his first big "read" post: On November 28 2014 12:56 LightningStrike wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Okay since now that my cousin and his wife and son have left I can finally give you guys my current reads for the time being.
Breshke: Town since he displaying the same kind of approach for today as he did in my last game when he was town.
Batsnacks: Null leaning town since he is acting close to the same way he did last game with me when he was a doctor but he been dodging questions from Oatsmaster and Half the Sky.
Damndred: Null leaning town since he was one of the major pushers for the lynching of DSIM without much of a good reason and been defending Batsnacks actions but at the same time he been giving losts of questions although DSIM didn't respond well to the questions.
Half the Sky: Town since he been giving good reasonings for his reads throughout the game although I don't like his case for Batsnacks being scum based on my own experience playing with Batsnacks in my last game.
sicklucker: Town because his posting style had pretty much stayed the same from the last game I played with him although he did looked very scummy in that game but he was just a Vanilla town and since our power roles had been lynched/killed I having a safe bet that sicklucker is town.
meatpudding: Null leaning town he had some decent questions after being gone for a while and now he claiming to have no power at his house it could be a scum move because one of the scums in my last game tried to pull that move but failed so perhaps meatpudding could scum.
alakaslam: null leaning scum since he not posted much of his reads but he also admitted to notread much of the thread during the time of us lynching DSIM but I need to see more posts of his though since he said he had to go earlier in the thread to confirm my suspicions.
Oatsmasters: Town since he been asking lots of questions to everyone and been trying to lead the discussion when he can which isn't a trait a scum member would do.
kushm4sta: Null leaning scum since he not been contributing a lot like his last scum game which was my last although he did give a couple questions to people he also didn't post much so I need to wait for him to post more so I can get a better read on him
rsoultin: Null leaning town since he trying to ask some questions and responding to questions he been asked by others although he did convence me to lynch DSIM that is haunting me because of my last game experience :|
Look Familiar? HTS and I have a discussion about LS, and then you went back on him. So you're just going to straight up ignore this? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/474146-newbie-mini-mafia-lx?page=21#412LS straight up claimed VT with zero pressure on him. AFTER my last reply to you, which influenced me to doubt him again. So once again you are completely misrepresenting the situation. Show nested quote +So at the very least, you are lying about suspecting LS before I posted. You pushed suspicion onto the WW train while carefully parking your vote on jarjar. You have been careful this game and generally agreeable. But if there's one thing I believe:
Liars should be lynched
People make mistakes. But I believe your post is intentionally misleading, not accidental.
##Vote: Celestial I've just demonstrated I was dubious of LS on my initial impressions which was then improved by his later post (notice that it was an EDIT which brought that back), knocked back again by what you posted, redeemed by him demonstrating similar play in later games and then brought down somewhat again by his panicky claim. THIS is the factual story rather than the narrative you're making up and is what I was pointing out in my earlier reply. I was never happy with WW's posting but it was not enough to lynch but nor was it enough to encourage people not to lynch, which I've already explained multiple times to the point I'm getting tired of pointing it out. Its like banging my head against a goddamn wall. If I've been "generally agreeable" then I wouldn't be repeatedly sticking my neck out by being ever suspicious of the motives of rsoultin considering virtually everyone else has been apparently townreading her to date. Honestly, this is absurd. You are intentionally and very deliberately misrepresenting everything I've said so far and flat out making up a timeline of events to support your story. Frankly I question your motivations here. I had you down for town but now you're making a hell of an effort to twist the order of events to suit yourself.
I claimed VT because I thought I was getting lynched and claimed there simple as that. I had the majority of the votes at the time I claimed VT.
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Also @Tubesock Tfrel seemed Neutral on me and Shining as far as I had read his filter before his death and honestly the WIFOM stuff should be check on and see who would gain the most from Tfrel's death.
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On January 09 2015 04:26 LightningStrike wrote:
Also @Tubesock Tfrel seemed Neutral on me and Shining as far as I had read his filter before his death and honestly the WIFOM stuff should be check on and see who would gain the most from Tfrel's death.
If he neutrals you, then how does killing Trfel implicate you?
Trfel's death benefits mafia. They gained less resistance to two mlynches. They will try to steer for the more difficult mlynch today, then when that one flips town, it'll cause a shitshtorm and we'd refocus on the easier mlynch.
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-Celestial- You're the towniest of the town so far. Is there anyone you can make a really strong case on and push for?
Who is your likely mafia team?
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On January 09 2015 03:51 Tubesock wrote:
I didn't think Trfel was townreading The Shining or LightningStrike until about 3 times of rereading his filter. Did you guys think that he was not scumming them?
Is my thinking bad to believe that we could not have had 2 mafia on 3 wagons on Day 1? It's possible sure, but really? I get the argument that if BOTH LS and Shining are mafia that Trfel is a good NK. If none or one of them are mafia, I have a really hard time they wouldn't kill Rsoultin, Half The Sky, or ExO_.
Can more people talk to me about this? If you can't tell, I'm pretty dense and stubborn. I need more than one person to say this is a crackpot idea.
Honestly I get the impression either way is possible because my impression is that its a disruptive kill. I'm pretty sure one of LS and Shining is mafia and I really doubt both of them are. The thing is that a Trfel NK can have two effects. One is as we discussed before (reducing interest in both) and the other is the precise opposite (increasing interest in both); which would set the town arguing in circles over two people, one of whom is mafia. The trick now is to work out which of these is true.
A kill on a strong person against them would only intensify the interest against them. At least it'd make me more interested in them, I'm not sure how other people would read it. Personally I'm inclined to believe that at least one of them is mafia and this was a deliberate attempt to sow confusion. I would then expect them to get on board with a town lynch wagon for D2 in order to hide amongst the votes. Of course that's what a townie might do too so its not alignment indicative but its a perfect way to hide.
Its not a crackpot idea but I don't think its the only interpretation here.
-Celestial- - You mentioned you had no idea how the wagon started and got momentum. I haven't seen you pursue that just yet. I probably missed it, can you let me know what you've learned?
Well I've not really had a chance to dive it in too much detail but as far as I can tell it was something like this:
rsoultin attempted to force WW to post something...anything (this we know already). Personally I was inclined to agree with the scum assessment early but as WW actually started posting the lynch just started to feel wrong.
After that initial post LS was quick to park his vote there too. Then Silver just sheeped rsoultin on the basis of lurking. As far as I can tell nobody actually QUESTIONED it until WW actually came back. LS posted asking for other people's views of other people's comments but that was about it and it was around this time that LS had his little panicky period with softclaiming.
Then WW finally posted, putting his suspicions on rsoultin, Trfel and LS whilst citing Silver and Tube as mafia. Shortly after this LS then hardclaims VT in an apparent panic over nonexistent pressure.
Then we got into the whole nonsense of rsoultin building a clear case on Shining but not following through with it. rsoultin has claimed since then it was just because of the lack of votes on Shining, which I could go either way on (could be honest, could be shenanigans).
rsoultin went off after leaving her vote on WW but Trfel came in with his switch to Shining after putting a valid reason for not liking LS much either but preferring Shining. He'd originally voted LS and still felt pretty strongly negative on LS but preferred the Shining wagon.
After the blue claim both you, tube, and LS stayed on WW. But pointing fingers is pointless because a bunch of people clearly made mistakes at that point. jarjar was on Shining very late in the day which left very, very little time for any kind of attempt to save WW unfortunately (note that until WW had jarjar on him it was 5v2 and would have taken two people actively voting for WW to save him, this was the case until only 10 minutes before the EoD).
Actually...looking back...this makes LS look REALLY bad.
At the moment I'm still inclined to go with the Shining wagon. The arguments from rsoultin still largely hold up despite my own suspicions on rsoultin...but since nobody else apart from jarjar is apparently feeling anything from rsoultin I have to conclude I might be wrong there. The blatant attempts to misrepresent me by ExO here almost make me want to vote him but I'm not going to do that because it'd pretty much be just because of OMGUS now I've let my indignation cool a little I think it may just be because he's overlooking stuff.
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EBWOP: I mean I could be missing stuff here. I've just gone over my notes really quickly and done a quick bit of filter diving on that whole period so something may have slipped under my radar.
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Celestial did you not see the vote count at the time I claimed VT? Ya the majority was on me not WW. Ofc I would claim if I had the majority of the votes a couple hours before being lynched.
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On January 09 2015 04:23 LightningStrike wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2015 04:05 -Celestial- wrote:On January 09 2015 02:11 ExO_ wrote:On January 08 2015 23:07 -Celestial- wrote:On January 08 2015 14:27 ExO_ wrote:
Then there's Celestial. I think I'm starting to scum read him as well. I didn't like that he just parked his vote on jarjar. I also don't like how he seems to be going whichever way the wind blows. He's easily swayed with whoever is posting at the time. For example he hopped right on the LS train with me, then when I was gone for a while he backed off it, only to start agreeing with me more when I got back in the thread. Another example is he did a bit of an OMGUS on rsoultin after day 1, but immediately said he was willing to give he the benefit of the doubt. That's scum behavior in my mind. Scum read. If you actually check my posts you'd see I was already calling LS out with my original set of reads BEFORE you posted something to really set me off on that path; so no, it wasn't just you. You are lying and I can prove it.On January 06 2015 01:32 -Celestial- wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
LightningStrike just posted fluff and comments on other people's posts so far. Not really sure what to make of that honestly....
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...Edit: LS posted as I was writing this. Last post was pretty good in my opinion, some credit there. Still don't want to make a call on him though. Neutral for now.
Before my post, this is the only mention you made to lightning strike. And even though you say he posts fluff, in that same post you go on to say his last post was good and he gets some credit. The next time you mention LS, is quoting and agreeing with me. Except you just explicitly quoted me expressing doubt and highlighting him by saying I wasn't sure what to make of him. He posted AFTER I posted leading to my later comment about how I'd liked his post which put me off his scent. But that does NOT wipe out the fact I was originally dubious of his posting. You're misrepresenting me AGAIN here. Point out the lie. I mean really... On January 08 2015 23:07 -Celestial- wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Then I filter-dived for my second set of reads to confirm stuff before voting him; which was a very long time after you posted. But when LS demonstrated that he's played exactly this way before that set some doubt there, so getting off him was absolutely nothing to do with you. And note that I didn't switch back suspicions to LS because of you. Again, check my posts. I questioned you for your opinion on LS and then when LS decided to throw out a vague, apparently panicky, claim THAT is what made me suspicious of him again.
Oh really? On January 07 2015 01:43 -Celestial- wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Ok I've taken the time myself to read over the evidence that LS presented and...actually its pretty convincing. Although I think meta reads, especially based on just one game, can easily be manipulated he IS playing this very similar to the way he has in the past and it IS from three separate games so...yeah well done there.
I can't in good faith vote LS anymore. His playstyle is just too consistent between townie games there and it has severely shaken my confidence on it. I don't really know playstyles very well of course but those links were fairly convincing. Of course LS could be deliberately selecting evidence but it doesn't feel like that, it feels more like a genuine attempt at convincing. Not a D1 lynch for me anymore.
At this point in time I had been gone from the thread for a while. And thus the discussion moved away from LS for a while. As does your vote, and your vocal suspicions. Next comes: On January 07 2015 04:50 -Celestial- wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
@ExO_: What are your thoughts on LS (and others) pointing out he's played exactly the same way when he's been town on several previous occasions? I've been somewhat persuaded by that enough to conclude that for now I don't think he's the best D1 lynch. I mean I'm still not won over to make him town, but ideally we're looking for a D1 mafia lynch and I don't think he's the one to guarantee it
. You finally go back on to LS with: On January 07 2015 05:36 -Celestial- wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Had dinner. Going off to do some other things now but before I do I have to say that claiming like that brings my sights right back onto you, LS. Nobody actually asked for a claim off you and its not like you were under a huge amount of pressure. ExO was the only one really on you and you'd convinced me to give you the benefit of the doubt for a while with your past citations.
But a softclaim like that just a few hours before the deadline when nobody is actually pushing you makes it look as if you're panicking honestly. And that makes me incredibly suspicious once more . Coincidentally guess what I posted just 6 posts and 12 minutes before the above quoted post:: On January 07 2015 05:24 ExO_ wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I'll admit he had more initial scum reads at first. But then, there's this his first big "read" post: On November 28 2014 12:56 LightningStrike wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Okay since now that my cousin and his wife and son have left I can finally give you guys my current reads for the time being.
Breshke: Town since he displaying the same kind of approach for today as he did in my last game when he was town.
Batsnacks: Null leaning town since he is acting close to the same way he did last game with me when he was a doctor but he been dodging questions from Oatsmaster and Half the Sky.
Damndred: Null leaning town since he was one of the major pushers for the lynching of DSIM without much of a good reason and been defending Batsnacks actions but at the same time he been giving losts of questions although DSIM didn't respond well to the questions.
Half the Sky: Town since he been giving good reasonings for his reads throughout the game although I don't like his case for Batsnacks being scum based on my own experience playing with Batsnacks in my last game.
sicklucker: Town because his posting style had pretty much stayed the same from the last game I played with him although he did looked very scummy in that game but he was just a Vanilla town and since our power roles had been lynched/killed I having a safe bet that sicklucker is town.
meatpudding: Null leaning town he had some decent questions after being gone for a while and now he claiming to have no power at his house it could be a scum move because one of the scums in my last game tried to pull that move but failed so perhaps meatpudding could scum.
alakaslam: null leaning scum since he not posted much of his reads but he also admitted to notread much of the thread during the time of us lynching DSIM but I need to see more posts of his though since he said he had to go earlier in the thread to confirm my suspicions.
Oatsmasters: Town since he been asking lots of questions to everyone and been trying to lead the discussion when he can which isn't a trait a scum member would do.
kushm4sta: Null leaning scum since he not been contributing a lot like his last scum game which was my last although he did give a couple questions to people he also didn't post much so I need to wait for him to post more so I can get a better read on him
rsoultin: Null leaning town since he trying to ask some questions and responding to questions he been asked by others although he did convence me to lynch DSIM that is haunting me because of my last game experience :|
Look Familiar? HTS and I have a discussion about LS, and then you went back on him. So you're just going to straight up ignore this? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/474146-newbie-mini-mafia-lx?page=21#412LS straight up claimed VT with zero pressure on him. AFTER my last reply to you, which influenced me to doubt him again. So once again you are completely misrepresenting the situation. So at the very least, you are lying about suspecting LS before I posted. You pushed suspicion onto the WW train while carefully parking your vote on jarjar. You have been careful this game and generally agreeable. But if there's one thing I believe:
Liars should be lynched
People make mistakes. But I believe your post is intentionally misleading, not accidental.
##Vote: Celestial I've just demonstrated I was dubious of LS on my initial impressions which was then improved by his later post (notice that it was an EDIT which brought that back), knocked back again by what you posted, redeemed by him demonstrating similar play in later games and then brought down somewhat again by his panicky claim. THIS is the factual story rather than the narrative you're making up and is what I was pointing out in my earlier reply. I was never happy with WW's posting but it was not enough to lynch but nor was it enough to encourage people not to lynch, which I've already explained multiple times to the point I'm getting tired of pointing it out. Its like banging my head against a goddamn wall. If I've been "generally agreeable" then I wouldn't be repeatedly sticking my neck out by being ever suspicious of the motives of rsoultin considering virtually everyone else has been apparently townreading her to date. Honestly, this is absurd. You are intentionally and very deliberately misrepresenting everything I've said so far and flat out making up a timeline of events to support your story. Frankly I question your motivations here. I had you down for town but now you're making a hell of an effort to twist the order of events to suit yourself. I claimed VT because I thought I was getting lynched and claimed there simple as that. I had the majority of the votes at the time I claimed VT.
On January 09 2015 04:54 LightningStrike wrote:
Celestial did you not see the vote count at the time I claimed VT? Ya the majority was on me not WW. Ofc I would claim if I had the majority of the votes a couple hours before being lynched.
As far as I can tell this an outright LIE. When you "softclaimed" you had two votes on you, which was more than anyone else (but only by 1 vote). And you staying that way was contingent on you not providing me with any evidence to the contrary, which you did not long after which got my vote off you.
But when you claimed VT you did NOT have the majority.
PROOF!
Here is your VT claim:
On January 07 2015 05:12 LightningStrike wrote:I'm Vanilla Town this game I wish I was a Cop to redeem myself from Campus Mafia 
Votes:
On January 07 2015 05:07 kitaman27 wrote:
Day 1 Vote Count
jarjarbinks (1): ExO_, -Celestial-
LightningStrike (1): ExO_, -Celestial-
Gumdrop (1): Tubesock
TheWarWaffle (3): rsoultin, LightningStrike, Silverarte
Tubesock (1): TheWarWaffle
Not Voting (5): The Shining, Half the Sky, jarjarbinks, Trfel, Gumdrop
Currently, TheWarWaffle is set to be lynched. until deadline.
This was FIVE MINUTES before your outright VT claim with WW being a solid two votes ahead of you. The next vote was Gumdrop voting ExO more than twenty minutes after that. You were NOT ahead in votecount.
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On January 08 2015 23:07 -Celestial- wrote:
If you actually check my posts you'd see I was already calling LS out with my original set of reads BEFORE you posted something to really set me off on that path; so no, it wasn't just you.
This is a lie Celestial. Saying he's posting fluff and then giving him town credit is not calling him out. You didn't say anything significant against him until I made my big post. This isn't altering the timeline of events, nor is it misquoting you.
It's trying to get credit for FoSing someone you didn't. I'm not letting you slip by with that.
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On January 09 2015 04:57 -Celestial- wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2015 04:23 LightningStrike wrote:On January 09 2015 04:05 -Celestial- wrote:On January 09 2015 02:11 ExO_ wrote:On January 08 2015 23:07 -Celestial- wrote:On January 08 2015 14:27 ExO_ wrote:
Then there's Celestial. I think I'm starting to scum read him as well. I didn't like that he just parked his vote on jarjar. I also don't like how he seems to be going whichever way the wind blows. He's easily swayed with whoever is posting at the time. For example he hopped right on the LS train with me, then when I was gone for a while he backed off it, only to start agreeing with me more when I got back in the thread. Another example is he did a bit of an OMGUS on rsoultin after day 1, but immediately said he was willing to give he the benefit of the doubt. That's scum behavior in my mind. Scum read. If you actually check my posts you'd see I was already calling LS out with my original set of reads BEFORE you posted something to really set me off on that path; so no, it wasn't just you. You are lying and I can prove it.On January 06 2015 01:32 -Celestial- wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
LightningStrike just posted fluff and comments on other people's posts so far. Not really sure what to make of that honestly....
---
...Edit: LS posted as I was writing this. Last post was pretty good in my opinion, some credit there. Still don't want to make a call on him though. Neutral for now.
Before my post, this is the only mention you made to lightning strike. And even though you say he posts fluff, in that same post you go on to say his last post was good and he gets some credit. The next time you mention LS, is quoting and agreeing with me. Except you just explicitly quoted me expressing doubt and highlighting him by saying I wasn't sure what to make of him. He posted AFTER I posted leading to my later comment about how I'd liked his post which put me off his scent. But that does NOT wipe out the fact I was originally dubious of his posting. You're misrepresenting me AGAIN here. Point out the lie. I mean really... On January 08 2015 23:07 -Celestial- wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Then I filter-dived for my second set of reads to confirm stuff before voting him; which was a very long time after you posted. But when LS demonstrated that he's played exactly this way before that set some doubt there, so getting off him was absolutely nothing to do with you. And note that I didn't switch back suspicions to LS because of you. Again, check my posts. I questioned you for your opinion on LS and then when LS decided to throw out a vague, apparently panicky, claim THAT is what made me suspicious of him again.
Oh really? On January 07 2015 01:43 -Celestial- wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Ok I've taken the time myself to read over the evidence that LS presented and...actually its pretty convincing. Although I think meta reads, especially based on just one game, can easily be manipulated he IS playing this very similar to the way he has in the past and it IS from three separate games so...yeah well done there.
I can't in good faith vote LS anymore. His playstyle is just too consistent between townie games there and it has severely shaken my confidence on it. I don't really know playstyles very well of course but those links were fairly convincing. Of course LS could be deliberately selecting evidence but it doesn't feel like that, it feels more like a genuine attempt at convincing. Not a D1 lynch for me anymore.
At this point in time I had been gone from the thread for a while. And thus the discussion moved away from LS for a while. As does your vote, and your vocal suspicions. Next comes: On January 07 2015 04:50 -Celestial- wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
@ExO_: What are your thoughts on LS (and others) pointing out he's played exactly the same way when he's been town on several previous occasions? I've been somewhat persuaded by that enough to conclude that for now I don't think he's the best D1 lynch. I mean I'm still not won over to make him town, but ideally we're looking for a D1 mafia lynch and I don't think he's the one to guarantee it
. You finally go back on to LS with: On January 07 2015 05:36 -Celestial- wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Had dinner. Going off to do some other things now but before I do I have to say that claiming like that brings my sights right back onto you, LS. Nobody actually asked for a claim off you and its not like you were under a huge amount of pressure. ExO was the only one really on you and you'd convinced me to give you the benefit of the doubt for a while with your past citations.
But a softclaim like that just a few hours before the deadline when nobody is actually pushing you makes it look as if you're panicking honestly. And that makes me incredibly suspicious once more . Coincidentally guess what I posted just 6 posts and 12 minutes before the above quoted post:: On January 07 2015 05:24 ExO_ wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I'll admit he had more initial scum reads at first. But then, there's this his first big "read" post: On November 28 2014 12:56 LightningStrike wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Okay since now that my cousin and his wife and son have left I can finally give you guys my current reads for the time being.
Breshke: Town since he displaying the same kind of approach for today as he did in my last game when he was town.
Batsnacks: Null leaning town since he is acting close to the same way he did last game with me when he was a doctor but he been dodging questions from Oatsmaster and Half the Sky.
Damndred: Null leaning town since he was one of the major pushers for the lynching of DSIM without much of a good reason and been defending Batsnacks actions but at the same time he been giving losts of questions although DSIM didn't respond well to the questions.
Half the Sky: Town since he been giving good reasonings for his reads throughout the game although I don't like his case for Batsnacks being scum based on my own experience playing with Batsnacks in my last game.
sicklucker: Town because his posting style had pretty much stayed the same from the last game I played with him although he did looked very scummy in that game but he was just a Vanilla town and since our power roles had been lynched/killed I having a safe bet that sicklucker is town.
meatpudding: Null leaning town he had some decent questions after being gone for a while and now he claiming to have no power at his house it could be a scum move because one of the scums in my last game tried to pull that move but failed so perhaps meatpudding could scum.
alakaslam: null leaning scum since he not posted much of his reads but he also admitted to notread much of the thread during the time of us lynching DSIM but I need to see more posts of his though since he said he had to go earlier in the thread to confirm my suspicions.
Oatsmasters: Town since he been asking lots of questions to everyone and been trying to lead the discussion when he can which isn't a trait a scum member would do.
kushm4sta: Null leaning scum since he not been contributing a lot like his last scum game which was my last although he did give a couple questions to people he also didn't post much so I need to wait for him to post more so I can get a better read on him
rsoultin: Null leaning town since he trying to ask some questions and responding to questions he been asked by others although he did convence me to lynch DSIM that is haunting me because of my last game experience :|
Look Familiar? HTS and I have a discussion about LS, and then you went back on him. So you're just going to straight up ignore this? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/474146-newbie-mini-mafia-lx?page=21#412LS straight up claimed VT with zero pressure on him. AFTER my last reply to you, which influenced me to doubt him again. So once again you are completely misrepresenting the situation. So at the very least, you are lying about suspecting LS before I posted. You pushed suspicion onto the WW train while carefully parking your vote on jarjar. You have been careful this game and generally agreeable. But if there's one thing I believe:
Liars should be lynched
People make mistakes. But I believe your post is intentionally misleading, not accidental.
##Vote: Celestial I've just demonstrated I was dubious of LS on my initial impressions which was then improved by his later post (notice that it was an EDIT which brought that back), knocked back again by what you posted, redeemed by him demonstrating similar play in later games and then brought down somewhat again by his panicky claim. THIS is the factual story rather than the narrative you're making up and is what I was pointing out in my earlier reply. I was never happy with WW's posting but it was not enough to lynch but nor was it enough to encourage people not to lynch, which I've already explained multiple times to the point I'm getting tired of pointing it out. Its like banging my head against a goddamn wall. If I've been "generally agreeable" then I wouldn't be repeatedly sticking my neck out by being ever suspicious of the motives of rsoultin considering virtually everyone else has been apparently townreading her to date. Honestly, this is absurd. You are intentionally and very deliberately misrepresenting everything I've said so far and flat out making up a timeline of events to support your story. Frankly I question your motivations here. I had you down for town but now you're making a hell of an effort to twist the order of events to suit yourself. I claimed VT because I thought I was getting lynched and claimed there simple as that. I had the majority of the votes at the time I claimed VT. Show nested quote +On January 09 2015 04:54 LightningStrike wrote:
Celestial did you not see the vote count at the time I claimed VT? Ya the majority was on me not WW. Ofc I would claim if I had the majority of the votes a couple hours before being lynched. As far as I can tell this an outright LIE. When you "softclaimed" you had two votes on you, which was more than anyone else (but only by 1 vote). And you staying that way was contingent on you not providing me with any evidence to the contrary, which you did not long after which got my vote off you. But when you claimed VT you did NOT have the majority. PROOF! Here is your VT claim: Show nested quote +On January 07 2015 05:12 LightningStrike wrote:I'm Vanilla Town this game I wish I was a Cop to redeem myself from Campus Mafia Votes: Show nested quote +On January 07 2015 05:07 kitaman27 wrote:
Day 1 Vote Count
jarjarbinks (1): ExO_, -Celestial-
LightningStrike (1): ExO_, -Celestial-
Gumdrop (1): Tubesock
TheWarWaffle (3): rsoultin, LightningStrike, Silverarte
Tubesock (1): TheWarWaffle
Not Voting (5): The Shining, Half the Sky, jarjarbinks, Trfel, Gumdrop
Currently, TheWarWaffle is set to be lynched. until deadline. This was FIVE MINUTES before your outright VT claim with WW being a solid two votes ahead of you. The next vote was Gumdrop voting ExO more than twenty minutes after that. You were NOT ahead in votecount.
Okay I thought was I was ahead on votes still at the time my bad -.- But still I was being pressured by ExO and Tube at least if I recall.
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On January 09 2015 04:47 -Celestial- wrote:
EBWOP: I mean I could be missing stuff here. I've just gone over my notes really quickly and done a quick bit of filter diving on that whole period so something may have slipped under my radar.
Thanks. That timeline agrees with what I thought. Rsoultin pressures WW. Silver sheeps Rsoultin (I need to ask her about that more), LS jumps on for reasons about his mom.
You and I talked about how Silverarte could be mafia in her position being it's a super safe vote. But I think we agreed it was probably nothing. Maybe it's time to question her a little more.
I'm assuming that people are not really questioning me on my actions because they were pretty transparent.
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Also, I'll vote Lightning. But I should let you all know it's 100% fucking ragevote. I do think he's going to flip town.
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On January 09 2015 05:05 Tubesock wrote:
Also, I'll vote Lightning. But I should let you all know it's 100% fucking ragevote. I do think he's going to flip town.
If you really believe that, it's incredibly poor play. And it doesn't even make sense. There's nothing to rage about right now. While I think he looks scummy as hell with his over-concern with appearing innocent and lack of trying to find scum at all, he's not being rude or anything.
Explain this to me.
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On January 09 2015 04:59 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2015 23:07 -Celestial- wrote:
If you actually check my posts you'd see I was already calling LS out with my original set of reads BEFORE you posted something to really set me off on that path; so no, it wasn't just you.
This is a lie Celestial. Saying he's posting fluff and then giving him town credit is not calling him out. You didn't say anything significant against him until I made my big post. This isn't altering the timeline of events, nor is it misquoting you. It's trying to get credit for FoSing someone you didn't. I'm not letting you slip by with that.
Do I seriously have to spell this out?
Ok THIS was the first thing I posted on LS:
LightningStrike just posted fluff and comments on other people's posts so far. Not really sure what to make of that honestly.
Translation: I'm weirded out by his posting.
Whilst I was writing that he posted something which changed my mind somewhat, leading me to edit with this:
Edit: LS posted as I was writing this. Last post was pretty good in my opinion, some credit there. Still don't want to make a call on him though. Neutral for now.
To explicitly spell this out: I didn't like his early junk and pointed it out as being weird, then he posted a good post which made me lean away from suspicion somewhat.
No, I didn't post anything "significant" against him because I didn't HAVE anything significant. What I HAD was doubt, which I highlighted in my first post before he posted something that made me less inclined to believe in that doubt, but it did not eliminate it which is why I explicitly said he was a null read rather than leaning town.
I notice you're no longer commenting on the later parts of this story. Is that because the stuff you're making up no longer fits then?
Again, why are you twisting what happened to make up a story? You appear to be wanting to try to make my reads a lot more extreme than they were. The only lies here are a result of your creative interpreting.
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On January 09 2015 05:08 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2015 05:05 Tubesock wrote:
Also, I'll vote Lightning. But I should let you all know it's 100% fucking ragevote. I do think he's going to flip town. If you really believe that, it's incredibly poor play. And it doesn't even make sense. There's nothing to rage about right now. While I think he looks scummy as hell with his over-concern with appearing innocent and lack of trying to find scum at all, he's not being rude or anything. Explain this to me.
I'm mad at him for his poor play. His reliance on meta's, and his claim without any pressure. The cases on him are good, he looks really scummy.
the only reason I think he's going to flip town is from my tin foil hat conspiracies which I'm trying to not believe in. I'm having a hard time letting it go though.
If I were mafia, there literally is no world that exists where I nk Trfel unless BOTH Shining and Lightning are mafia. Even then, I would try to find another target for better disruption (I haven't actively looked for one so I don't know).
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EPT
