EPTTL Mafia LXIX: Carol Of The Bells - Page 213
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30775 Posts
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GlowingBear
Brazil12446 Posts
On December 20 2014 00:28 rsoultin wrote: -shrugs- Like I said, uphill climb xP So why are you so interested in people mass-claiming? Do you really think it'll narrow things down for town that much? Seems to me we're more likely to get counter-claims (real or false) or a ton of VT claims and still be playing the same old who is lying bit, while scum can shoot into the last few roles that may or may not be able to roleblock them. If you're arguing it's obvious who the scum would be...I refer you to your last post ^ War roles are mason, nigella and veteran If veteran claims and gets shot, lol @ mafia If mason claims... nothing happens, it just confirms a townie. If nigella claims we lose a protection/roleblock. I'd rather know who is town and narrow targets than having the power roles. Like, with these claims, I know who I can work with and it's less 3 people I should be worried about. A lot of vt claims is okay. The thing is that mafia is probably not counter claiming any of these three power roles so we are okay. And IF mafia counterclaims and gets the power role lynched, free mafia lynch next day. | ||
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GlowingBear
Brazil12446 Posts
On December 20 2014 00:31 Holyflare wrote: Don't you think sl's present claim made him extremely towny? The present/joyful claim. Pretty sure he's just being kept alive to troll me. The joyful child claim I think is shitty. A lot of people were joyful child. Maybe he was town and thought his role was unique? I remember him talking about joyful children having presents. The present giving, however, sounded townie. The thing is: although it SOUNDED townie, it's actually null because either mafia or town could have the present. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30775 Posts
On December 20 2014 00:37 GlowingBear wrote: The joyful child claim I think is shitty. A lot of people were joyful child. Maybe he was town and thought his role was unique? I remember him talking about joyful children having presents. The present giving, however, sounded townie. The thing is: although it SOUNDED townie, it's actually null because either mafia or town could have the present. I'm talking about the first part. Yes it was stupid /dumb to do but it looked like he thought he was one of 3 and that he somehow figured out an rng mechanic with presents. Looked pretty towny to me. | ||
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
On December 20 2014 00:31 Holyflare wrote: Don't you think sl's present claim made him extremely towny? The present/joyful claim. Pretty sure he's just being kept alive to troll me. I waffle on him. It's a pretty simple thing to claim a present as mafia, give it to a town, then have them killed and say that you giving a present to town is what makes you town. So...no, I don't think that alone proves he's town. And the more people harp on it, the less convinced I get, because it seems people are trying to push an obvious fallacy. That and his hard defense of ritoky and GB seems like he's trying to push the idea that only town can give presents to town even more. Of course, ritoky was mafia, so now it doesn't matter as much...but do you get where I'm going with this? Just in general the whole presents analysis isn't very helpful, cause it's not actually alignment indicative. | ||
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
On December 20 2014 00:34 GlowingBear wrote: War roles are mason, nigella and veteran If veteran claims and gets shot, lol @ mafia If mason claims... nothing happens, it just confirms a townie. If nigella claims we lose a protection/roleblock. I'd rather know who is town and narrow targets than having the power roles. Like, with these claims, I know who I can work with and it's less 3 people I should be worried about. A lot of vt claims is okay. The thing is that mafia is probably not counter claiming any of these three power roles so we are okay. And IF mafia counterclaims and gets the power role lynched, free mafia lynch next day. I wouldn't mind a lucky roleblock leading us to another scumbucket, personally xP Wouldn't bug me at all. I don't know. Scum probably doesn't need that many more mislynches, what with the 2 NKs. So playing 50/50 games is not to my taste. And given scum probably doesn't need many more mislynches, turning it into that could be beneficial to them, depending on how many are left. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30775 Posts
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
Also, have you really seen him scumhunting like a mofo this game? That's also part of what makes SL, SL. Wild and crazy theories on everyone, not just focused on one person. Note that he commented on all of Trfel's reads except the one on himself not giving many reads, then suddenly gave a few...nah, I think there's reason to suspect him, even if I'm not at all sure. | ||
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
On December 20 2014 00:44 rsoultin wrote: I wouldn't mind a lucky roleblock leading us to another scumbucket, personally xP Wouldn't bug me at all. I don't know. Scum probably doesn't need that many more mislynches, what with the 2 NKs. So playing 50/50 games is not to my taste. And given scum probably doesn't need many more mislynches, turning it into that could be beneficial to them, depending on how many are left. EBWOP: The mass-claiming also has a weakness in that scum not counter-claiming, then killing the roles that weren't CCd, removes more players that people were certain about and leaves only the question-marks. Do we really have so few question-marks this game to say that will help town win the game? | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30775 Posts
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
Why did you try to take credit for ritoky? There was a large time gap between when ritoky claimed to have received a notification, to which you said "okay", and bats catching him in the lie. Then you didn't vote on him anyway. You not jumping on board is whatevs...but trying to claim credit reads super scummy to me. | ||
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GlowingBear
Brazil12446 Posts
On December 20 2014 01:07 rsoultin wrote: Even assuming that you can't see what I'm driving at and couldn't see it before, either, GB... Why did you try to take credit for ritoky? There was a large time gap between when ritoky claimed to have received a notification, to which you said "okay", and bats catching him in the lie. Then you didn't vote on him anyway. You not jumping on board is whatevs...but trying to claim credit reads super scummy to me. I wasn't trying to take credit, dude. Bats was the one who caught ritoky. The thing is: my line of questioning followed the logic bats went through. Fake claiming being notified would make him slip. What I wanted to show you is that I'd NEVER question ritoky the way I asked him without having a clear plan on the scum qt. it's obviously I've caught ritoky off guard, so he slipped. He could just say that he tried to kill someone but his shot failed, without saying he was notified. You get this? Let me put it in a simpler way: what is mafia motivation to inquire his partner like that? | ||
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GlowingBear
Brazil12446 Posts
Power of vote > power roles. (Thanks IAMP, btw) | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
On December 20 2014 01:28 GlowingBear wrote: About the mass claiming: I'd rather have confirmed town shot and mafia lynched than a power role alive but a townie mislynched. Power of vote > power roles. (Thanks IAMP, btw) There is no way to completely prove someone is lying or not GB. That alone makes roleclaiming practically useless... | ||
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
On December 17 2014 10:35 GlowingBear wrote: But well, my theory that scum could have hammered HF but didn't was proven right. If you're still scumreading me, remember that I was the one that started to ask questions about notification to ritoky. This is exactly what I was trying to achieve at that moment. That's why after his answer I asked anyone who was roleblocked day1 to claim. Also, as holyflare quoted Vivax, LoneMeow was shot by vigi. Proof one is that Obi said he was reading LM as mafia Proof two is that, as only 2 kills happened, Obi was shot AND roleblocked, which is TOO accurate night actions for mafia UNLESS they realise obi was the only one scumreading LM. And as they know they didn't shoot LM night one, it was easy to know who to roleblock and kill. Only you didn't. You asked for people to claim being roleblocked before ritoky answered, then all you said was "okay". I can find the quotes again, if you need them as proof, but now I know where I got my timing messed up...you planted it in my head. There is nothing whatsoever to indicate that you were trying to catch ritoky out in a lie. There is, however, evidence to indicate that you were trying to get people to claim that they were being roleblocked...which, if you knew as you claim to that they weren't receiving notifications, is role-hunting. And if you knew, as you claim, you should have called ritoky out, not simply said "okay". So either you're lying about your purpose behind asking for people to claim because you never really knew, or you had the opportunity, knowing that ritoky was lying, to call him on it and chose not to. | ||
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GlowingBear
Brazil12446 Posts
Here are hosts who notifies people when they were roleblocked, independently if they have a power role or not. Roleblocker is unlikely to hold his skill; therefore, someone could have been roleblocked. I ask ritoky BEFORE ask people to claim being roleblocked so he doesn't get my plan Nobody claims being roleblocked = ritoky lied. I don't understand how do you associate receiving a notification of being roleblocked = having a power role. Oats, come on, you know it's a horrible mafia play to counterclaim a power role because it's a 1 for 1 trade. You know this. God... | ||
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
On December 20 2014 01:51 GlowingBear wrote: Follow my logic: Here are hosts who notifies people when they were roleblocked, independently if they have a power role or not. Roleblocker is unlikely to hold his skill; therefore, someone could have been roleblocked. I ask ritoky BEFORE ask people to claim being roleblocked so he doesn't get my plan Nobody claims being roleblocked = ritoky lied. I don't understand how do you associate receiving a notification of being roleblocked = having a power role. Oats, come on, you know it's a horrible mafia play to counterclaim a power role because it's a 1 for 1 trade. You know this. God... Dude, seriously? I associate people not receiving a notification of being roleblocked, but still knowing that they have been, with having a power role. This isn't rocket science. You didn't ask if they received notifications. You asked people from Day 1 and Day 2 to come forward if they had been roleblocked. No more, no less. | ||
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LightningStrike
United States14277 Posts
On December 20 2014 01:59 rsoultin wrote: Dude, seriously? I associate people not receiving a notification of being roleblocked, but still knowing that they have been, with having a power role. This isn't rocket science. You didn't ask if they received notifications. You asked people from Day 1 and Day 2 to come forward if they had been roleblocked. No more, no less. No one is notified of being roleblocked that's why. | ||
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
The point is, if you meant it to be a trap (i.e. knew that people didn't receive notifications) you should have been the one to call out ritoky, not bats. The point is, claiming that you were laying a trap when I first questioned you (though you've changed your story now) means you're either trying to give yourself credit after the fact so people townread you, or you knew all along and didn't call ritoky out on it. People either claiming or not claiming to be roleblocked isn't significant because people don't have to do what you ask them to. And in this case shouldn't. It just falls in line with the other myriad of times you've asked people to claim -_-. | ||
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
On December 19 2014 19:36 marvellosity wrote: It doesn't Count GlowingBear (4): Holyflare (5): sicklucker, The_Templar (5): Holyflare, Fecalfeast, Oatsmaster, Vivax, Alakaslam Currently Holyflare is set to be lynched. 12h24m until deadline. Okay, we're about six hours out, so I guess it's time to ask were people stand. I'm more confident of GB as scum than Templar, but am willing to vote Templar if others don't agree with me. I've already explained why. I'd appreciate those on GB and Templar to say where they stand on the other two lynch options, why they like one scumread over another (if they have multiple) and whether or not they'd be willing to change their votes. It's probably time to consider consolidating. | ||
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