TL Mafia LXIX: Carol Of The Bells - Page 211

On December 13 2014 05:28 GlowingBear wrote:


Lol what kind of info?

Lololol

Ok, listen:

The only important point regarding presents is that ritoky claimed he got one, which is more detrimental than helpful, because, in case he don't die night1, he dies/get roleblocked night2, which is awful for town. But if you think of it again, there is no motive for him to claim that he is opening the present as mafia. I just used my brain a little more and got to this conclusion. Which means that talking about presents is only helpful when considering mass claiming. We should drop this discussion right now.

HF doesn't look like he is pushin town agenda, but his own self agenda. This looks much more like mafia holyflare. He points out things that aren't really mafiaish and doesn't seem to try to further identify people's alignment. His pushes aren't for solving the game. They are mostly done just to push, just to make a lynch happen, maybe.

His backtracking on froggy is weird because he kept an absolute stance regarding bunnies, who I just say sounded more null than anything, and froggy is leaning scum.

HF once came to the thread and said that we should look for people outside the NB wagon, which is ridiculous. He wasn't talking about people who WASTED their votes. He was talking about people outside the main wagon. He also said me and ritoky looked the worst. You can see he is doing a timid push on ritoky, but it really doesn't sound like he is trying to figure out his alignment. Weirdly enough, the present claim from ritoky remained unquestioned by HF. MOREOVER, he did not make ANY attempt to figure out my alignment when he said I looked bad at that time.

He is scum.

I want to read more of the thread before making a case on HF, but a lot of his reasoning is off. The lack of push on ritoky's present claim, the multiple scumreads of wagons outside the 27nb wagon and the 27nb mislynch is all playing against him.

His entrance in this game is awful, he picking on bunnies for being contradictory when picking up on frogs awful entrance but not picking on Vivax post on frog... This kind of double standards worries me.

On December 19 2014 20:29 sicklucker wrote:
Like ill totally look at gb later his game has def been off. Like the reason im town reading him mainly is because some of my points I got from him and there REALLY GOOD. Maybe he just gave me to much info if you know what I mean. Either way we learn alot about him with an hf flip

On December 19 2014 20:13 sicklucker wrote:
#1 Meh your overconfident then but youve made excuses that you dont want to play this game so im not totally buying it

#2 Ritoky Didnt claim kp for like along time after he claimed present. It was well know that dandred died with a present by then. Mafia might have even targeted dandred because I telegraphed sending it to him. I said Dandred died with a present right after nks were announced pretty much the same time ritoky said he had one maybe before not really super important, what matters is when he claimed what was inside it. Mafia wouldn't risk opening it and dying so it took alot of balls to make that claim if they didnt have full control.

4.QUOTE]On December 19 2014 11:02 sicklucker wrote:
" I think Mafia had to have the remaining presents as it makes no sense for Rit to guess with a 50% chance of being wrong and leavig yourself vulnerable to a counterclaim"

That means he thinks hf and ff are fakeclaiming, that means hes voting hf. Its not super obvious so that explains why mafia killed. This is really simple stuff dont let the great froggy die in vien.

And if you think about it HES COMPLETELY RIGHT THIS PROVES WITHOUT ANY DISPUTE HF IS MAFIA. Ritoky claimed a present. He would only do this if mafia has both because dandred died with one.

On December 19 2014 20:36 Vivax wrote:


You could also learn about HF with a GB flip yet you arbitrarily choose HF first.

Look at the the interactions between them and flipped scum and come back with the insight that GB looks worse off it. The time he starts pushing HF is at some point after votes ritoky.

On December 19 2014 20:36 Vivax wrote:


You could also learn about HF with a GB flip yet you arbitrarily choose HF first.

Look at the the interactions between them and flipped scum and come back with the insight that GB looks worse off it. The time he starts pushing HF is at some point after votes ritoky.

On December 19 2014 20:45 Holyflare wrote:
Vivax breaking dat contract :O :O :O!




can you explain that to the lazy? (me)

On December 19 2014 21:04 Holyflare wrote:
yes anyone can just read like page 4 of my filter and it's pretty fucking obvious i'm not mafia

On December 19 2014 16:31 sicklucker wrote:


No one would counter claim the present untill after they use it , but the point is they would counter claim it eventually so thats bs. And no one has used one . vt's would not pass a present on thats what hf is claiming . Your not as good as you think you are I sheeped in my first games. To me I feel like you just want to be right rather then seeing the truth. The fact is my case against hf is better then your case against gb. I can explain why hf is mafia in like 1 line. Your long post is all circumstantial and gb can play pretty bad as town.

Im 99% sure hf is scum. How sure are you on gb?

On December 18 2014 22:19 Holyflare wrote:
The_Templar



Now that we know kelsier flipped mafia, adding to this case are things like his initial rng located here:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/472628-tl-mafia-lxix-carol-of-the-bells?page=14#270

Now, people that post rng post it in order to stick with it either in a joking way and get discussion going or in a serious manner and stick to it like glue because they are retarded (bh). Templar, after rnging it in the most suspicious way possible (not doing the division mechanics in any pre-determined way) picks out kelsier. Now, in my opinion kelsier had done crazy suspicious things like calling people town based on no meta to counter the read and also calling bats town after bats read has been proven false (as I pointed out and trfel copied for his ultimate case to lynch mafia), yet, as I was pushing ninjabunnies at the time over that read templar returned with the fluffiest post of all time:



He never mentions ANY actual in game content about ANYONE other than they are lurkers/using posts badly:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/472628-tl-mafia-lxix-carol-of-the-bells?page=18#351

After literally a wealth of information and posts on the 3 subjects, kelsier/bunnies and froggy he instead decides to say absolutely nothing about any of them. Kelsier isn't mentioned for content at all, froggy is mentioned for being a hypocrite with no opinion on the matter and then he unvotes kelsier to sheep onto the ninjabunnies wagon not because she was contradictory, had her top scum read or w/e in her scum list bla bla. Only because she had spent some posts talking about clothes and used 12 of 80 posts on this. You could argue this was just at the start of the posting spree on bunnies but he returned later and had an equally useless post about his top scum read:


he STILL mentions none of the arguments but only scum reads her based on the fact she wasted some posts and posted a list????? Comment: Clearly not. His reads are SO surface level it's actually ridiculous. He's also busy pointing out people that are red claiming (is alakaslam a snowman? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/472628-tl-mafia-lxix-carol-of-the-bells?page=20#400 etc) His posts are specifically intended to look like contribution, by way of length, but are instead just multiple waves of nonsense that doesn't make anyone scum and he's refused to even take part in the discussions.

+ Show Spoiler +

his list is also pretty weird. Comment: Agreed. It's also an odd coincidence, who he chooses to read as town. He's like totally ignored everyone that is posting about the bunnies lynch apart from vivax (mainly me) yet posting similar things about her and has this weird list that comes out of nowhere. I'm also not ignoring the fact that he called bunnies scum for having a list of reads but then made this list, Comment: He wasn't calling her scum for just having a list. See above. I'm also not going to ignore the fact that he calls bunnies mafia for wasting posts but doesn't even mention slams spamming slew of posts as indicative at all. Comment: Could be a double-standard, but aren't you the same one who said you don't even bother trying to read Slam? I can't understand him half the time. Double standards are crazy and scummy. He's ignored everything that made kelsier scummy in this respect too and actually bolded him based on...? Nobody will ever know at this point because all he talked about in regards to kelsier is that he liked to write about starcraft.

The rest of his day 1 was a LOT of afking and then one of those "catch up with absolutely everything in the game" posts, yet this catch up specifically said absolutely nothing and made no conclusions whatsoever it was comment on post by post. Comment: Agreed. Very little original content throughout his filter. He maintained that ninjabunnies WAS scummy and being pushed for good reasons yet, later in the game said I fell off halfway through day 1 and had no reason to be on bunnies: Comment: Quote? I didn't see this in his filter.



He then AGREED with gb's case which stated that I had no proper reason to be on ninjabunnies because the points didn't make her mafia and that he DISAGREED with the other half of this case because he didn't know where I said any of the stuff gb was mentioning (which later turns out gb pulled out of his arse).



He is literally saying he agrees with gb's case that I didn't have very good reasons to be on bunnies after he was also on bunnies (with like 0 reasons???) Comment: The actual wording says you were pointing out things that weren't "mafaish" and not trying to find alignments. This is how you made your read, not whether or not your conclusion was justified. Yet then when it starts to pick up some more, he starts saying he agrees with everything GB is saying on me. (I don't have to reiterate that following this case is ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE Comment: The case was bad, yes, but not alignment indicative, unless you're saying everyone who agreed with GB was probably mafia. if you had actually read it and fact checked it because I have destroyed this case multiple times and GB HAS STILL NOT SAID ANYTHING ABOUT MY DEFENCE 3 DAYS LATER -.- -.- -.- -.- -.-).


It's also quite odd that if he sees that half the case is what he's guilty of and the other half doesn't make any sense and he was previously scum reading gb the night before that he'd just go full on sheep mode and say "great case".

He also has contradictory self meta whenever people call him out on it:



Here he says he would be crazy lurking normally as mafia and putting out reads. Yet, later, when pressure is building on him he changed it to:



being really active, posting all the time, with long drawn out posts of justification. He seems to have multiple metas thought out for all the occasions! Comment: Using meta as a defense when his meta isn't consistent is scummy to me, I agree. The red portions mean the same thing, but the rest appears to be contradictory.

There's also these random tidbits on throwing accusations on vivax:




after saying absolutely nothing about him all game, sheeping his read on xatalos day 1 and vivax having the supposedly same reads as him because they both wanted to lynch me forever. It just looks like he's throwing suspicion everywhere he can.


Then you can just read the above quoted previous case I made in regards to him not giving a shit about who is lynched ever and instead pressuring tubesock EVEN THOUGH HE SAID HE COULDN'T GET HIM LYNCHED. How futile is that?



Where has this tube thing gone by the way?



Oh yeh, sheeping dat thread sentiment onto a town lynch again even though there's literally nothing he's said about me, spread suspicion onto vivax for after my flip and gb's case has been dissolved. There's no reason to be on me other than to blend and obtain another mislynch. (They only need 2 to win btw)

---

The Meta - ignore this section if you're a twat face

+ Show Spoiler [The_Templar] +

There is pretty little to go on in terms of meta in the database for templar, yet, just looking at the differences between the games, the amount of effort going into his mafia game is far more than here. Yet, so is his town game. This is congruent with what he is saying part way through the game at least. However, there's a difference in his posting styles. As town you see posts like these ones on page 4:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/465384-mission-mini-mafia?user=The_Templar&page=4

he seems like he's chasing up his reads, finding inconsistencies in people's posting and making sure people know it. It's not the matter of appearing to have a read on everyone, it looks like he's trying to get people to notice things that make people mafia.

Whereas in his mafia game here:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/450895-newbie-mini-mafia-lvi?user=The_Templar&page=4

You see things where he is posting reads like "i agree with this", "your posts are pretty null" and yes, you can say he has long posts as mafia too for instance here:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/450895-newbie-mini-mafia-lvi?page=20#382

that look the same but when you read the actual content he isn't finding the inconsistencies within the people's posts he's instead going very surface level and just saying that he disagrees with things and that this is how they'd act in video mafia etc etc. There's no real game logic involved.


Now when you tie his meta together with this game you can see the same things. I stated earlier that all his reads were "surface level", they weren't congruent with his original thoughts. Comment: I don't entirely agree that he's not finding any inconsistencies or just saying he agrees/disagrees, but I find the meta inconclusive anyway.He doesn't read things properly or even bother to CHECK whether there are inconsistencies at all. You can literally see this where he disagrees with half of gb's case on me (and agrees with something that he is far more guilty of) but never follows up to see whether there was an inconsistency with what gb was saying or not, especially as he scum read GB the last day and town read me. In fact other people were left to do this and he didn't give a shit and went after tube who is no longer anywhere in his reads at all. Comment: I've seen some continued light pressure, but nothing significant.



##vote the_templar



more to come, eventually....